How do you see/feel about the future of men and women, masculine and feminine?

[Natalia]

This is something that I have been drawn to today (again) while me and sister were looking up videos of female Illuminati...(not something that I do often...)...

I don't know a lot about this...

Just a few things that I see/feel (not saying they are truths, just "senses" and "perceptions"...)...

To me, I do not see/feel that the human race in this world has to become androgynous to evolve...my "sense" on it, is that, before and if ever we get to that stage, we have to balance out the masculine and feminine, first...

Divine masculine, divine feminine...

I know that other people feel differently, and if some are more androigynous, or a man is more feminine than masculine, or a woman more masculine than feminine, I don't see it as wrong..

On a personal note, I love being a woman...not as in love every moment! Or all of the negativity experienced within (insecurity, fear), but I love the true essence within me, and I do feel like I came to this planet to be a woman...to live as a woman (but not just a woman)...and I feel that my calling and true (down here) self, is mostly to do with the feminine, but also, a little of the masculine...

But collectively, will there be a general trend and general healing and reconnecting?

A healing of and between the genders?

Many people's minds and hearts do not agree (and many do)...

What will be?

What needs to be?

I see both men and women, and masculine and feminine, as equally important...

I see and feel that there needs to be a healing of hatred and for there to be forgiveness...between the genders...I hope this happens...it is happening now in parts and as a process...but there is a lot more of it to do...

I felt inspired to write this after pondering a little on some of the things that Michael Tsarion bought up in this video (not saying that I agree with it all, or on a controversial theory that he mentioned about a dark side of women in history - I don't know), but, he seemed to me to make some very good points...

Thank you Michael! (If you are watching this)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=6RXE4Va_ElY

[Milneman]

Be careful Amethyst.

Your senses and emotions can play tricks on you and although at first seem to present you with solid evidence at the next moment prove to have given you false information.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

I was reading a really good book last night called "Mysteries of the Unexplained".
The book has a large section on cryptids, including the so-called "wild man" (Yeti/Squatch).
Most accounts of these strange but existing creatures (!) stressed one common fact: there was NO difference between the genders except that one had breasts, and the male's teeth were larger.

Breasts sustain the young until they are large enough to eat food. During the time that the young and the mother are compromised by this, the male with his large teeth acts as the temporary protector. These are temporary roles that soon disappear when the children reach adolescence.

With humans, we THINK we are evolved, but the way I see it, MOST human beings do not reach adulthood in the ancient sense.
We simply do not pass thru enough physical hardship, most of us, to have "proven ourselves" in any way that cements self esteem.
So we are forced into roles that seem to give meaning to an otherwise disorganized and chaotic life.

i've contributed to both side of the gender debate and see it as one of the biggest, most crippling issues, facing our species.

@@

p.s. failure among primates to abandon gender roles results in genocide within the species. look at any ape species that kills its own young and you know i am correct.

[sigma6]

awesome Amethyst, I like girls who are comfortable with their femininity, lol... And there are definitely masculine females and feminine males, but I don't necessarily think it has to mean they have to be physically attracted to the same sex as a result... good and evil are separate elements that can exist in any state... independent of male / female... there is male power and female power, most studies show that almost all traits for males vs females have a huge overlap, with the exception of a very few things.... but this shouldn't be a surprise... we are two sides of the same coin....

that said I still love this song by David Bowie...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kTe0Ow5-i2o

[belljoshua565]

Amethyst
I totally agree with you. There needs to be healing for both males and females, not only of ourselves but also with each other. Love is not gender specific. We all need to embrace our complete divinity which i believe is made up of both elements. We cannot heal the world unless both elements within us are healed and integrated.

[Baby Steps]

Very true that each individual can channel as much or as little of each polarity as they wish, healthy people can cope with and celebrate that! But at another level of spirit there is no gender and gender is just a layer of perception or construct albeit very deep and fundamental.
I think in today's society genders have become caricatures of what they were meant to be because a lot of people are afraid of opposite gender traits within themselves. I mean, in earlier societies a man would not have problems showing his emotions or nurturing a child, and a woman would express her strength and power overtly without fear. We need some balancing. Or maybe I am just bit in the middle!

[Bluegreen]

From the Gospel of Thomas:

Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, and when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter the kingdom."

[ghostrider]

the internet is run on 18 military satellites created in the Reagan years , all information is sanitized and monitored by the military ... our future , if humanity keeps thinking in the old way , history will repeat itself , War , destruction , suffering , rebuilding , War , destruction , suffering , rebuilding ... our future is one third of every man killed , one third of every tree burnt , one third of sea life dies , a great earthquake , 888 days of hell on earth do to the insanity of men and their lust for power and control ... if women ran the world , War would stop tomorrow ... it is said it will take 800 more years before we become real human beings leaving the old ways behind and tending toward peace rather than War ...

[Natalia]

Posted by Milneman (here)
Be careful Amethyst.

Your senses and emotions can play tricks on you and although at first seem to present you with solid evidence at the next moment prove to have given you false information.

I'm aware of that, and I like to keep open that I could be wrong about some things...as I have been before...

Reminds me also of how at times I doubted my intuition, then it turned out to be true...

[Pop Idle]

While I'm fairly open minded and unprejudiced, I do find it disturbing that one can go to a doctor and claim to be a "woman trapped in a man's body" and get put on the operation waiting list... I'm sure I've watered the process down a little but I've always seen it as a poignant indication of the highly neurotic and unbalanced times we are living in...

I think that the idea of the divine masculine and divine feminine are great as archetypes, but how many actual living people do you know who embody them? I can't think of anybody that I know personally to be honest.

I think at this point individual self knowledge and self acceptance, self love if you will, are far more important than striving to "be" something that you're not.

Men and women have been reproducing for so long now that a blur or overlap of their respective qualities was surely inevitable, in the same way that you resemble both your parents physically, you take on certain behavioural traits of both.

I do believe however that there are far more women out there with the qualities of the divine feminine archetype, than men who embody divine masculinity. Men like that are obviously very dangerous...

[Natalia]

Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution (here)
I was reading a really good book last night called "Mysteries of the Unexplained".
The book has a large section on cryptids, including the so-called "wild man" (Yeti/Squatch).
Most accounts of these strange but existing creatures (!) stressed one common fact: there was NO difference between the genders except that one had breasts, and the male's teeth were larger.

Breasts sustain the young until they are large enough to eat food. During the time that the young and the mother are compromised by this, the male with his large teeth acts as the temporary protector. These are temporary roles that soon disappear when the children reach adolescence.

With humans, we THINK we are evolved, but the way I see it, MOST human beings do not reach adulthood in the ancient sense.
We simply do not pass thru enough physical hardship, most of us, to have "proven ourselves" in any way that cements self esteem.
So we are forced into roles that seem to give meaning to an otherwise disorganized and chaotic life.

i've contributed to both side of the gender debate and see it as one of the biggest, most crippling issues, facing our species.

@@

p.s. failure among primates to abandon gender roles results in genocide within the species. look at any ape species that kills its own young and you know i am correct.

I think that there is less difference between male and female than society has portrayed...but, I do see/feel it as more than just the physical...in general...were we born male and female just for sexual reasons?

On gender roles, yes it is a big issue! It effects everyone...I speak for myself in saying that it has effected me both positively and negatively...some like and fit with some of them, and some don't, there is so much variation in society...

Posted by sigma6 (here)
awesome Amethyst, I like girls who are comfortable with their femininity, lol... And there are definitely masculine females and feminine males, but I don't necessarily think it has to mean they have to be physically attracted to the same sex as a result... good and evil are separate elements that can exist in any state... independent of male / female... there is male power and female power, most studies show that almost all traits for males vs females have a huge overlap, with the exception of a very few things.... but this shouldn't be a surprise... we are two sides of the same coin....

that said I still love this song by David Bowie...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kTe0Ow5-i2o

Yeah and it's so interesting that one thing that makes a woman really hot to many men is her sexual masculinity! (combined with femininity)...Madonna, Beyonce and Rihanna, being good examples...those women are still sexually attracted to men...

Posted by HugoJudd (here)
Very true that each individual can channel as much or as little of each polarity as they wish, healthy people can cope with and celebrate that! But at another level of spirit there is no gender and gender is just a layer of perception or construct albeit very deep and fundamental.
I think in today's society genders have become caricatures of what they were meant to be because a lot of people are afraid of opposite gender traits within themselves. I mean, in earlier societies a man would not have problems showing his emotions or nurturing a child, and a woman would express her strength and power overtly without fear. We need some balancing. Or maybe I am just bit in the middle!

Yeah it seems like most of us have been afraid of the opposite in us and others at times...well, depending on what it is...some women are highly competitive and driven but not very intelligent in some ways, some women are not competitive or driven but are a bit more intelligent in those ways than the other women are not (currently).

It was nice when I was a child and didn't think about any of that really, just being...but society is obsessed with it and it can kinda effect me/we...and it can be an issue that some need to be aware of.

To me, a man who has strong compassion doesn't automatically make him too feminine or less of a man...and a woman who has strong intelligence doesn't make her too masculine or less of a woman to me...it's about the overall essence...and nature of the person...

[Baby Steps]

Posted by Amethyst (here)

Posted by Milneman (here)
Be careful Amethyst.

Your senses and emotions can play tricks on you and although at first seem to present you with solid evidence at the next moment prove to have given you false information.

I'm aware of that, and I like to keep open that I could be wrong about some things...as I have been before...

Reminds me also of how at times I doubted my intuition, then it turned out to be true...

As a male I salute,worship,am in awe of, fascination with,love with, etc, the DIVINE FEMININE aspect.
Go girl.

[Natalia]

Posted by HugoJudd (here)

Posted by Amethyst (here)

Posted by Milneman (here)
Be careful Amethyst.

Your senses and emotions can play tricks on you and although at first seem to present you with solid evidence at the next moment prove to have given you false information.

I'm aware of that, and I like to keep open that I could be wrong about some things...as I have been before...

Reminds me also of how at times I doubted my intuition, then it turned out to be true...

As a male I salute,worship,am in awe of, fascination with,love with, etc, the DIVINE FEMININE aspect.
Go girl.

hehe

well we all have some of that divine in us, I value the fatherly and protective aspect of men

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Whether or not we agree with the choice, it's not cool to bash transsexuals. In fact, a lot about science and the human body is poorly understood, and who are we "common people" to judge what someone ELSE is experiencing?

I knew by acquaintance a person (at church!) who later became a transsexual. I was only in my first year of college or so when I found out. It was startling but nothing about it fundamentally weirded me out, nor did it change my own personal preference which is fairly mainstream.

Even when reading Thomas Harris novels, a complete 12 year old can figure out, there isn't anything wrong with being a transsexual -- in fact many otherwise "normal" people opt for this yearly, while the rest of us "rat racers" eke it out with what we were given by CHANCE.

More power to them, men who want to be women, and women who want to be men. It doesn't bother me or affect me, unless I play tennis professionally (lol!) or compete in the Olympics (at my age?)... so WHY BASH TRANSSEXUALS in a thread that is about male and female archetypes in the natural form, i.e. chance again.

Might as well say you value cats more than dogs because Schroedinger used a cat.
To be bothered by the tranny choice or any other aspect of the human's free choice as empowered by modern science?

@.@ and I thought I was a fundie bible basher too, here giving a decent secular explanation for why the whole transsexual controversy isn't a good thing to put in here. I did notice that, Pop Idle...

Pop Idle

Re: How do you see/feel about the future of men and women, masculine and feminine?
While I'm fairly open minded and unprejudiced, I do find it disturbing that one can go to a doctor and claim to be a "woman trapped in a man's body" and get put on the operation waiting list... I'm sure I've watered the process down a little but I've always seen it as a poignant indication of the highly neurotic and unbalanced times we are living in...

I think that the idea of the divine masculine and divine feminine are great as archetypes, but how many actual living people do you know who embody them? I can't think of anybody that I know personally to be honest.

I think at this point individual self knowledge and self acceptance, self love if you will, are far more important than striving to "be" something that you're not.

Men and women have been reproducing for so long now that a blur or overlap of their respective qualities was surely inevitable, in the same way that you resemble both your parents physically, you take on certain behavioural traits of both.

I do believe however that there are far more women out there with the qualities of the divine feminine archetype, than men who embody divine masculinity. Men like that are obviously very dangerous...

So, we have ya saying "men like that are obviously very dangerous" so... is the divine masculine, to you, something scary and overly powerful and destructive? because not everyone sees it that way. Christ wasn't scary, for example, unless you're a money lender, satan, or a religious hypocrite. @@

And then the use of the word "disturbing" in reference to transsexualism, um, is that also stemming from the preconceived notion that the "divine masculine" is again, grossly powerful?




Amythest sorry but I couldn't resist.
I find men who want to be women to be hugely powerful and stable people who know what they are facing and know what they want. it's their choice not ours.

and also if a woman wants to experience life as a man it's not our damn business.




It doesn't affect me!!!
p.s. a member of my family had a transsexual preschool bus driver, male-to-female. one of the nicest people i've ever met. wore pink and smiled and knew the kids' names and was never mean to them.

and people have a problem with nice folks like those.

Thanks to modern science anyone can be anything and those who disagree will just be left looking old.

[Michael Moewes]

The true essence of everything is emptiness.
In emptiness there is no duality. so no gender. no senses. no feelings. no emotions.
only emptiness. that's where everything goes.
That's called enlightenment.
I'm still far away but I got the meaning. now I only have to realise it.
Live Healthy

[AutumnW]

Amethyst, it seems to me that some of the tension between the sexes nowadays is due to diminishing polarity. Women aren't as submissive and the culture applauds strength, both physical and psychological in both sexes, not just men.

It is a tough adjustment and only men who are secure in their own masculinity appreciate women who are becoming more androgynous. In truth, it allows men to step outside of their archetypal straight jackets and be more human.

[viscountvlad]

I find this subject fascinating. I've always felt far more emphasis is put on the gender divide, than I feel in my every day life.

I am man both biologically and mentally. However, from a very young age I have felt under no pressure to conform to gender stereotypes or to fill certain gender roles. I am fairly unisex in my tastes and don't feel particularly defined by my sex.

I'm fairly certain that what ever spiritual core/ soul/ floaty magicy bit or whatever you call it, that lives in this fleshy space suit, and looks out onto the world through it's eyes and is having the experience that I call me, is genderless.

Gender seems to be another way in which we, as one humanity, are divided.

Granted, evolutionary biology has developed a 2 sex system of reproduction, there are different hormones rushing through our veins and we have variation in our dangly and wobbly bits, but our value is no different. We are no different. We are one.

Our ideas about gender roles stem from a purely biological basis. In mainstream modern western society these roles are largely redundant, though we cling onto them (or have them marketed at us)

I work in a job looking after and teaching young children. I have noticed a trend in gender divide being much more widely acceptable than when I was a child. Pink vs blue syndrome. This is seems to be something that parents want. It is a disturbing trend. Without my conspiracy theorist hat on I would say it is contrived and pushed by business to sell plastic battle mutants and nose-less prostitute dolls, but with my tin foil hat firmly in place, I might think it is a deliberate exploitation of our most comfortable human rift. Remember, that spark of life that thinks, using your hormone addled brain, is not man or woman. It is from a genderless God, or maybe is a part of a genderless God. We are all one.

Working with children and thinking this over has helped me come to a few conclusions (not that my opinions are in anyway concluded!)

1. Always wash your hands
2 Remain child like or re-learn how to be. Be playful, joyful, accepting, open minded and full of wonder.
3 Have your human experience man/woman/something in-between, but remember at the heart of things there is no difference.

[Natalia]

Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution (here)
Whether or not we agree with the choice, it's not cool to bash transsexuals. In fact, a lot about science and the human body is poorly understood, and who are we "common people" to judge what someone ELSE is experiencing?

I knew by acquaintance a person (at church!) who later became a transsexual. I was only in my first year of college or so when I found out. It was startling but nothing about it fundamentally weirded me out, nor did it change my own personal preference which is fairly mainstream.

Even when reading Thomas Harris novels, a complete 12 year old can figure out, there isn't anything wrong with being a transsexual -- in fact many otherwise "normal" people opt for this yearly, while the rest of us "rat racers" eke it out with what we were given by CHANCE.

More power to them, men who want to be women, and women who want to be men. It doesn't bother me or affect me, unless I play tennis professionally (lol!) or compete in the Olympics (at my age?)... so WHY BASH TRANSSEXUALS in a thread that is about male and female archetypes in the natural form, i.e. chance again.

Might as well say you value cats more than dogs because Schroedinger used a cat.
To be bothered by the tranny choice or any other aspect of the human's free choice as empowered by modern science?

@.@ and I thought I was a fundie bible basher too, here giving a decent secular explanation for why the whole transsexual controversy isn't a good thing to put in here. I did notice that, Pop Idle...

Pop Idle

Re: How do you see/feel about the future of men and women, masculine and feminine?
While I'm fairly open minded and unprejudiced, I do find it disturbing that one can go to a doctor and claim to be a "woman trapped in a man's body" and get put on the operation waiting list... I'm sure I've watered the process down a little but I've always seen it as a poignant indication of the highly neurotic and unbalanced times we are living in...

I think that the idea of the divine masculine and divine feminine are great as archetypes, but how many actual living people do you know who embody them? I can't think of anybody that I know personally to be honest.

I think at this point individual self knowledge and self acceptance, self love if you will, are far more important than striving to "be" something that you're not.

Men and women have been reproducing for so long now that a blur or overlap of their respective qualities was surely inevitable, in the same way that you resemble both your parents physically, you take on certain behavioural traits of both.

I do believe however that there are far more women out there with the qualities of the divine feminine archetype, than men who embody divine masculinity. Men like that are obviously very dangerous...

So, we have ya saying "men like that are obviously very dangerous" so... is the divine masculine, to you, something scary and overly powerful and destructive? because not everyone sees it that way. Christ wasn't scary, for example, unless you're a money lender, satan, or a religious hypocrite. @@

And then the use of the word "disturbing" in reference to transsexualism, um, is that also stemming from the preconceived notion that the "divine masculine" is again, grossly powerful?




Amythest sorry but I couldn't resist.
I find men who want to be women to be hugely powerful and stable people who know what they are facing and know what they want. it's their choice not ours.

and also if a woman wants to experience life as a man it's not our damn business.




It doesn't affect me!!!
p.s. a member of my family had a transsexual preschool bus driver, male-to-female. one of the nicest people i've ever met. wore pink and smiled and knew the kids' names and was never mean to them.

and people have a problem with nice folks like those.

Thanks to modern science anyone can be anything and those who disagree will just be left looking old.

It's ok Tesla, since I was a child I supported people being gay and did not like when some would say it was dirty or bad...later on when I saw more of transsexuality, I too supported their choice and saw beyond their what seems strange to most people's desire to look like the other gender...and to me, it isn't just about looks but also what feels more natural to them...like some feel like they were born in the wrong body/gender...I empathize (somewhat?) without being lesbian or bisexual myself...I have a few gay and lesbian friends and am fine with going to a gay club occasionally (I'm not really into clubs except the odd time when in the mood).

I can see why some do not see it as "natural" and they have a high value for natural...they can keep their it's unnatural view, but what I don't like is if they treat people like they are dirty/bad for it...and I do not and never have believed that if you are gay, lesbian, bisexual, that you will go to "hell"...I know a few people who see it as unnatural but would not be cruel about it...but sometimes people can pick things up and that can feel hurtful...there are lessons in being gay, lesbian, transsexual...

[Natalia]

Posted by Michael Moewes (here)
The true essence of everything is emptiness.
In emptiness there is no duality. so no gender. no senses. no feelings. no emotions.
only emptiness. that's where everything goes.
That's called enlightenment.
I'm still far away but I got the meaning. now I only have to realise it.
Live Healthy

Down here we are humans, or, in human form...perhaps enlightenment in terms of emptiness isn't what we (or some of us) came down for? Or it's only part of it?

I experience emptiness and non emptiness...

[Natalia]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Amethyst, it seems to me that some of the tension between the sexes nowadays is due to diminishing polarity. Women aren't as submissive and the culture applauds strength, both physical and psychological in both sexes, not just men.

It is a tough adjustment and only men who are secure in their own masculinity appreciate women who are becoming more androgynous. In truth, it allows men to step outside of their archetypal straight jackets and be more human.

Reminds me of an example that I have used before...say if a woman is about 70% feminine and 30% masculine and she doesn't really hide her masculinity a lot...some men would find that not feminine or sexy enough....treat her as if she is androgynous or too masculine - but she isn't...another man would still see (and want to see) her overall mostly femininity and he likes the combination of who she is, may even find it sexually attractive...

Some women who are more androgynous are seen as really hot by some or many men...there is this thing in society that sais that to be sexually attractive you have to be very feminine and very masculine, but sometimes this is not true (or is true, depending)...

Btw, I am seeing it that, there is the higher level androgyny and lower levels...so it will feel and look different on different people...

I mentioned androgyny in my first post because it seems like it might be in our future, but my sense is that it is way, way, way in the future, thousands of years away...it's like people want (the human race as a whole) to skip a step but I don't see it happening like that...am I wrong?