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Thread: Rich people have feelings too

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    Belgium Avalon Member Violet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    I saw that documentary about Buffet's granddaughter (before the Oprah appearance, missed that). I remember being very impressed. Huge sacrifices she was making there, way beyond money.

    Following Tesla and Shadowstalker, looking at the other end. And I want to thank you for bringing in that detail. The poor don't have the means, it sounds pretty doh, right?

    However, that doesn't mean there aren't (very) bad examples on the poor side. Boy, some of these stories... Let's hope that, like Shadowstalker's earlier sister-in-law, they never win the lottery.

    Now, because they don't have the financial means to wreak havoc on a large scale, they will just have to use whatever they have at hand; means that are not related to material wealth and which will bring them success in whatever evil project it is that will quiet their malevolent intentions, at least for a while. Be it backbiting, betraying trust, slandering to break up a marriage, breaking up other achievements of people who worked really hard for it. Poor people can do that too, without money. This should add to our understanding of why we see the things we see when power and money are added to such a spirit.

    And we should not - I repeat not - be tempted to discard the less prominent but beautiful examples of, on the one hand, poor people who have nothing and still help people for free and sometimes putting themselves at risk, and on the other, the wealthy people making an effort for humanity with, as Tesla and Ghostrider said, the gift of extra means, which automatically brings in greater responsibility. That's not just an opinion, entire societies are built up like that, where the wealthy are under an administrative expectation to contribute more (for stories on the creativity to escape from that, refer to your everyday newspaper).

    Nonetheless, we shouldn't dictate on what one can or can't buy with their own money. Yes, there's an etiquette of decency. They don't owe it to me that they give me a copy of their bank statements proving that they did something - or more than one thing - good in life. Why? Because that's not the point. If good was achieved, then they were a medium, and someone was helped and that's all that counts. That someone knows. And if we don't know it, then really, for that someone, it matters only little.
    Last edited by Violet; 10th February 2015 at 13:24.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too








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    Belgium Avalon Member Violet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Roisin, not sure what to think of the imagery. I know that they are often used to play on people's emotions, and though I hope you are not doing that, I can't help but ask if you can also explain in your own words how you feel these images fit my topic.

    I'm trying to be careful here, because I respect people's right to an opinion, but at this point I'm a little disappointed.
    Last edited by Violet; 10th February 2015 at 13:31.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    -------

    The discussion on this thread does credit to Avalon..... thank you to all!

    If any of you have not seen this (maybe some newer members haven't), do please read this true and very moving personal story from when I was in Nairobi, Kenya in 1989. Also one for Mini Flash, maybe.

    (Hey, another princess! )

    That little story belongs on this thread also...

    An experience that changed my life

    (and it did)

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Quote Posted by Violet (here)
    Roisin, not sure what to think of the imagery. I know that they are often used to play on people's emotions, and though I hope you are not doing that, I can't help but ask if you can also explain in your own words how you feel these images fit my topic.

    I'm trying to be careful here, because I respect people's right to an opinion, but at this point I'm a little disappointed.
    And I am very disappointed in YOU Violet (and not just a little). To say that those images exist to "play on our emotions" is the most disgusting thing I've heard in a looooooooooooooog time. You're really something else, ya know?

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Violet, when I looked up your profile--I got it. Now I can just consider the source.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    Quote Posted by Violet (here)
    Roisin, not sure what to think of the imagery. I know that they are often used to play on people's emotions, and though I hope you are not doing that, I can't help but ask if you can also explain in your own words how you feel these images fit my topic.

    I'm trying to be careful here, because I respect people's right to an opinion, but at this point I'm a little disappointed.
    And I am very disappointed in YOU Violet (and not just a little). To say that those images exist to "play on our emotions" is the most disgusting thing I've heard in a looooooooooooooog time. You're really something else, ya know?
    The quality of this thread seems to have tailed off very suddenly. Roisin, Violet did not say that ‘those images exist to "play on our emotions"’: she said ‘they are often used’ that way, not the same thing at all. Pictures with no captions can indeed be used in different ways, and I agree that a caption is needed from you to explain what this has to do with rich people’s feelings, because I frankly don’t see it either.


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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Interesting topic which arises many emotions for sure. We as humans have the tendency to point the finger on another, and even though there are quite a few times where this may be justified, at other times it is not, and at other times generalization (on any subject) is a symptom that is not really supporting our path to solutions and the evolution that we so long for as human race.

    It may be more usefull to define people by their souls and energy investment than anything else (and even than, careful with judgement), not so much by the amount of cash they carry, or the bloodline they were born into, any perceptions based on the 'currency' of money and the 'currency' of DNA is fudging to the truth in that it puts the focus on the cover (the costume), and not on the genuine material - the spirit that resides in this outer impression.

    High emotions can also be raised with the feeling of powerlwsnwss that comes from looking at the heartbreaking images of the starving children, very beautiful young human beings with high potential under unbearable circumstances. That can also contribute to the same mindset of polarity of either pointing fingers or raising opposite sensetivites, but luckiely here in Avalon we are able to raise above those tripping mindsets. Good for us ~

    Last edited by Limor Wolf; 10th February 2015 at 15:36.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    araucaria,



    This is what Violet said:

    "Roisin, not sure what to think of the imagery. I know that they are often used to play on people's emotions, and though I hope you are not doing that, I can't help but ask if you can also explain in your own words how you feel these images fit my topic.

    I'm trying to be careful here, because I respect people's right to an opinion, but at this point I'm a little disappointed."


    It speaks for itself plain and simple. She said they are used to play on people's emotions ... regardless that he/she said that they are "often used" for that is beside the point. And then she even had the audacity to accuse me of playing on peoples emotions for posting those images here in this thread in the first place!

    That she even said that the main purpose of images like that are to play on people's emotions is REVOLTING to say the least.
    Last edited by Roisin; 10th February 2015 at 16:03.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    I think it is really easy to point the finger at the fabulously rich. It seems grotesque that so few would have so much. So I guess the gripe is why should they have more when others have less? I think there are a lot of ways to look at this. What I have to ask myself before pointing the finger is this: What do I do with my money that is in excess of my basic needs? I do share some of it with those that appear to have less then myself, but I must admit that I keep a big chunk for myself. I buy things I don't need and replace items that aren't broken (phones ect.) It really isn't a whole lot different than what the fabulously wealthy do, it is just done on a smaller scale. In fact the scale is so much smaller that it will trigger no resentment from others.

    Another thing that worries me is the risk of taking on a victim mentality. When I give the really rich the power to disgust me, than I am at risk for feeling a sort of victim's entitlement. I want something I have not earned, I want someone else to make the world more fair for me. I'm sure there are a million arguments, and good ones too, against this position but I feel that the greatest "wealth" that we can have is that of being self reliant, self respecting, resourceful and sovereign. Bemoaning the injustice of the wealth distribution, without action will promote none of these.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Quote Posted by lastlegs (here)
    Violet, when I looked up your profile--I got it. Now I can just consider the source.
    last legs, I learned during my 24 hour mod status that sometimes people don't double-check their application or because English is a second language there maybe errors in the profiles. These are only a couple of reasons why some may jump to conclusions.

    I've found the best way to learn about someone's heart, intentions and contributions is to follow their message across time. I'd add that Violet is pure of heart. Someone to follow and learn from. One who knows what real richness is.

    RunningDeer
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 10th February 2015 at 15:43.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    I know of no one who is "pure of heart" who says the rich have feelings too and even starts up a thread about that so as to imply that they even care about all of the suffering and hunger in this world while hoarding all of the money ... money that could be used to eradicate poverty and hunger ... and I say completely eradicate it because they are the ones who have ALL of the money whereas the rest of the world does not.
    Last edited by Roisin; 10th February 2015 at 15:49.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Quote Posted by Violet (here)
    Roisin, not sure what to think of the imagery. I know that they are often used to play on people's emotions, and though I hope you are not doing that, I can't help but ask if you can also explain in your own words how you feel these images fit my topic.

    I'm trying to be careful here, because I respect people's right to an opinion, but at this point I'm a little disappointed.
    Once someone , an old friend of mine sent me these images freshly after i was back from India , after 6 years away from this 'civilisation' . I even did not have computer that time , worked from our library where i sat at the resident teaching spot ,
    friend taught me how to sent an email ..

    the rest i found on my own .

    But this old doc , friend of mine sent me this with some accompanying comments like 'see how awful it is elsewhere' ,
    yes sure .. I've seen a lot in India but Africa situation is definitely much worse .


    And all the spam in our mail box was full of someone from Nigeria or else trying to get to your bank account .


    We're trying to work it out , aren't we ..




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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Those images are not even the tip of the iceberg as far as how horrendous things really are in most 3rd world countries and anyone who has ever visited those countries would know that for a fact.

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    I know of no one who is "pure of heart" who says the rich have feelings too and even starts up a thread about that so as to imply that they even care about all of the suffering and hunger in this world while hoarding all of the money ... money that could be used to eradicate poverty and hunger ... and I say completely eradicate it because they are the ones who have ALL of the money whereas the rest of the world does not.
    What you have to understand is that the system has an inertia of its own. The vast majority of the hugely wealthy are individually just as hamstrung as the rest of us. Simply, they are caught on the other side of the equation and are held right where they are by blackmail or whatever. If you tried to go to the top to get something actually done, you would find that there is no top: there is always a higher authority. That is the difference between these people and us: we are somewhat free and they are not at all.

    It is massively important that we recognize that many of these people truly have feelings because when something eventually gives, as is bound to happen, this goodwill reaching out to their goodwill is what will bring the whole thing crumbling down.


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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    araucaria,

    They run the system dear. Yes, there is inertia in the system but they are the ones who set it up that way. sheesh

    Sorry, but I'm not a sympathizer for the elite. Everything is the way it is because they are the controllers and they run the show. And why is that? It's because they have all of the money, of course!

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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Quote Posted by blake (here)
    .....and what did this very wealthy person do for actual average people working hard, getting no where, and having to choose between food for the kids this week, winter coats and boots, or make the decision to pay the heating bill, or get a medical device they need for their cancer. Most Americans can not even make ends meet and are constantly trying to shuffle their money around to get what they need. The princess wants to be average and yet she doesn't seem to understand what average is from how you described her.

    Reduce her income to $40,000 a year with no assets, and understand that out of that $40,00 which after taxes and forced insurance coverage is a lot less, then have her pay rent, or a mortgage that eats up half her income before taxes. So after paying taxes, insurance, school loans, rent/mortgage, and a car payment, if she is lucky to afford one, and after she struggles to buy food, clothes and medicine as well as school supplies for the kids, I don’t think your princess would have money to go out and buy a cup of coffee; shopping is out of the question because she would have no money to go shopping with. I am wondering how much this princess thinks she needs to live on to be happy and free? Let’s see $5000 a night….. in one week that is $35,000, How long does it take YOU to make $35,000? Many people in America don’t even make $35,000 in a year.

    I am sure your princess is a nice person, but she lives and sees a different world than the majority of people. If all she knows if that it costs her $35,000 for rent for one week, how can she possibly relate to many single parents who only make $35,000 a year? Where is her reality check on living in the real world? Do we have a case of the poor little rich girl here?

    And if the Princess gets ill she can have medical treatment, or purchase what she feels she needs to help her heal. Ophra often says money may not buy you happiness but she states life is so much better rich the poor. Hmmmm why does she say that?

    The single parent making $35,000 a year, if she or he gets sick, unless they live on the street or rent free somewhere, they will not have that income to purchase medical devices or medical treatment and so they die or suffer immensely. People with cancer get chemo more often because it is the only treatment that they can afford because their insurance pays for it. They have no choice to do any other treatment. You Princess friend could have the best doctors and fly around the world to the best clinic and buy whatever medicine or medical devices they need to give them a chance to live, normal people don’t have a lot of options, because having money left over, after paying for the basics of life, doesn’t happen to most people.

    I am an American. I cannot say how things are in other countries but I suspect most people are living hand to month in western countries, and most people can’t afford to go out and have coffee at a restaurant. Many years ago "Ophra" told her audience if they wanted to get out of debt they had to stop buying coffee everyday and to not buy any clothes or anything for a year. That, at one time was Ophra;s advice. The people I was visiting and watching the show with had a very charming house in the suburbs, blurted out that they, as a couple, had not eaten out or purchased anything for more then a year. That was already their financial life style. Yet still they had no money at the end of the month to save or invest with. Therefore on the outside they may have looked upper middle class and yet they were financially strapped as most Americans.

    I don’t believe in global or national charities, that the rich seem to like to show how compassionate they are by giving money, they never really earned in my opinion. I would never give to a national or global charity. I believe in helping people, as anonymously as possible in my own community. Every time some one asks me for a donation for their favorite charity, I look around my community and give the money to people who need help. and it has been more than one occasion, that I just took the cash that I was asked to donate to the American Cancer society and anonymously mailed it to someone in town who indeed was struggling with cancer. Especially if I heard they needed or wanted a medical device that they believed would make their life more comfortable. Why anonymously…. because I don’t want people feeling they are beholding to me and I don’t like to embarrass people about money especially when they don’t have the money to buy something.

    Rich people, that I know, seem to have a lot of advice for people with little money. The problem is they have little realistic notion of what the world is like for people who work hard and still can’t make all the bills paid in full by the end of the month. People will say they work hard and that is why they are rich. Well the majority of people work hard and are not rich. Its all about the system. Why do rich people have so much money? Our congress person was far from rich at the time of her election, but since becoming a member of Congress, it is amazing how quickly she suddenly advanced financially into the world of millionaires and I suspect if she says on her path she will enter the circle of billionaires and yet the average person she represents and use to be like, can’t make ends meet while they work hard..

    Money is power. People love to have power. The majority of people are usually controlled by money in some way. Few have escaped the bondage of having money control them. Usually as soon as they get a job, just over broke as they say, they are enslaved.

    So your princess wants the freedom to walk into a mall and go shopping without her body guards. Hmm….. many people would love to go shopping at the mall or anywhere else but can’t because most Americans today DO NOT have the money to do so.

    I would like to know why your princess friend couldn’t live in a cheaper hotel, like an average person would stay at, if they had the money for a hotel room, most people don’t, and then use the $35,000 a week to give away to real people who work hard and have basic living needs that are not being met.

    Rich people hang mostly around other rich people like famous people mostly hang around other famous people and that is human nature, but as long as they do that, they remain in a bubble at what life is really like for the majority of people. Your Princess has the means to buy what she needs to live free but she chooses not to She chooses to spend over $140,000 a MONTH to rent living space from a hotel, She created that world herself. She has many options to live differently and to make friends in the real world.

    I have a lot of respect for people who ethically and morally make their fortune. I have no respect for people who made a fortune unethically or on the backs of others, by paying wages so low people that we have , in America, what we call the working poor. If you are rich and you employ the working poor, what does that say about your ethics and morals? Sure get a job at Wal-Mart. I have not idea what they pay but while corporate is making millions, the workers can’t pay their monthly bills.

    I read a book when I was young about a banker;s memoirs, it was an old book maybe written in the 30s. He of course was wealthy. His attitude was that he under paid the tellers because “ if they were so stupid” to accept a job that pays so low on what they can’t afford to live on, then that is what they deserved. There were the people they paid well, the ones who took a lot of vacations and then the work horses like the tellers were the working poor. I never forgot that book. And I don’t blame people for accepting low paying jobs as they are desperate for any money and have the hope of making more eventually. I have no respect for any employer who contributes to the working poor ro benefit them.

    It reminds me of our retired presidents. One who has a summer retreat in Maine and lives down south. He has a bullet proof car that gets like 7 miles a gallon. And he has it driven up to Maine and down to Texas every season. But you think he is so rich he can afford the luxury or the necessity of doing that each year. Well it turns out the American people pay for the gas to drive his car from Texas to Maine and than from Maine to Texas each year. Why are the American people paying for his gas when he bloody well can afford to pay for his own? I imagine the English people have the same issue supporting their royalty even though from what I read the Queen of England is the largest landowner in the world, but she must take from the workers to pay for her life extravagances.

    I admire people who become rich ethically, and pay their workers a real living wage with hefty bonuses for work well done. But most rich people didn’t become rich by just working smart and hard ethically. I remember reading Warren Buffet paid his secretary 16 dollars an hour. But that was a few years ago. But even a few years ago, people can’t live well on $16 an hour. I am sure he could have paid her more without hurting is counting house too much.


    You may have had a friendly relationship with the princess, but from what you described I have no respect for anyone spending over $140,000 a month on a hotel and than complains about not being free enough to go out for a cup of coffee. The Princess is not seeing reality, nor does she have good judgment in being a good steward of her fortune, which I presume she inherited.

    The majority of people are poor even when they work hard because society is set up to keep them poor. Being poor makes people easier to control.

    As long as you have a job you can’t walk away from you are a slave. The world like a slave. Some salves actually make a lot of money and yet if they can’t walk way form their job then they are just a highly paid slave.

    When people cheat you out of time and money, they are hurting your life.
    Most rich people, you will find if you look into it deeply will cheat you out of time and money. Its just how the hierarchical structure of power works. I always have. It just has gotten so much worse. To not factor in how the gap between the rich and the poor is growing and how the middle income class is being stamped out would be helping the rich and the powers that be continue to push the envelope of what they can do to us simply because they took all the marbles simply because the majority of Americans accept low wages and do not insist on being paid properly. They do so out of desperation.

    Most people I know thinks the average person in America must make at least $70,000 a year. It is shocking to them when I win bet after bet when they look up what the average salary in America really is.

    How much do you make a week? How much to you pay for rent, mortgage, school loans, utilities, taxes, insurance, food and medicine? Can you afford a vacation every year? How about one every five years? If you got sick and couldn’t work, what would you do?

    If you got cancer and declined chemo how would you pay for any alternative treatment? Oh yes there are some charities that may help you get chemo if you don’t have insurance and give them all your private details of your life for the past five years. To get help you trade it for intimate details of your life. Once you ask for help, you are treated as a ward. You have no privacy.

    The rich can make a difference in their communities by keeping most of their money in their community to help the local community and the local people who keep the community working. All rich people should be paying their workers decent wages, instead of mocking people who will work for any wage at all.

    Making $10 an hour, in a full time work week, is $ 400 a week. Or about $20,000 a year/ Can you pay your mortage and all the bills from society on less then $400 a week. Less than $400 because after taxes you will be lucky to get $350 a week

    Making $15 an hour will give you $ 600 a week before taxes or about $30,000 a year. Can your family live on that?

    Making $20 an hour gives you $800 a week or about $40,000 a year.

    Now look at what the majority of jobs pay. And whose fault is that? Not the hard workers fault? Why are the majority of people paid so poorly while the rich can so casually spend $5000 a night for lodging?

    Your poor little rich Princess in her hotel has many choices and opyions that the majority of those carrying her luggage and making her meals don’t.
    Thank you very much for writing this and I whole-hardheartedly agree with you!
    Last edited by Roisin; 10th February 2015 at 16:36.

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  33. Link to Post #58
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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    I find this fascinating when it come to the charity thing, the way I was raised is you give with your heart not with your name.
    You give what you can food, clothes, money, and you give it freely, you don't ask for a thank you because you give it anonymously, this has been a family tradition for several generation now. So in turn why do folks here truly believe that some of the rich don't give at all, for all we know some may have the same tradition as our family. I mean the very point in charity is the heart. And when folks start giving, with there name they are never left alone by other charities.

    Don't folks have the right to keep it private, and just give, no matter how much money they have. Is it our right to know when, how much, or even what those charities are? NO IT IS NOT. And as for taking care of the poor children in other countries by some of those millionaires or Billionaires , who is to say that they are not taking care of there own backyard. In other words WE KNOW NOTHING of the individuals truly making a change simply because they do not claim fame for there works, I.E. true charity.

    Are folks really that insecure and judgmental about other folks who have more money then others? There seems to be a lot of personal baggage dumped on this thread, do to insecurity and misinformation. There is a lot of extremism on this thread, to which tells me that the question that Violet asked in the O.P. was not truly understood, by some of the posters.

    Sometimes it seems that there's a witch hunt going on for people who are (materially) rich, especially in these days of shaky economies.

    Their charity is mocked as is their participation in social debates about common people issues (I'm generalising).

    I'm not rich in that manner, but I see it, and it's not fair.
    Last edited by shadowstalker; 11th February 2015 at 00:33.
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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    araucaria,

    They run the system dear. Yes, there is inertia in the system but they are the ones who set it up that way. sheesh

    Sorry, but I'm not a sympathizer for the elite. Everything is the way it is because they are the controllers and they run the show. And why is that? It's because they have all of the money, of course!
    Roisin, you are being very obtuse; too bad, I’m afraid you are going to have to read a post I made yesterday https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post931118

    The ‘elite’ is a metaphysical concept. And fiat money is another. And so is ‘they’. And ‘controllers running the show’ is yet another. These have no basis in our reality beyond the illusory one we are individually and collectively prepared to give them. All we have is entities and energies, which are the same one thing. There is (a semblance of) inertia when entities block energies. Entities are us: all of us. We quit blocking. Blocking includes shutting people out, not only by those who confiscate others’ power (wealth), but equally by those who ostracize the confiscators.

    Sheesh


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    Default Re: Rich people have feelings too

    The proof is in the pudding. If "the rich" were truly doing everything humanly possible to eradicate world hunger and poverty, then we would not have nearly as much of that as we do now... and have had since time memorial.

    The bottom line is this, those very few who are hoarding all of the money in this country and in the rest of the world are not doing jack squat to eradicate poverty and hunger and one only needs to watch the news or surf the internet to know that with absolute certainty.

    There are no secrets here. What you see is what you get and it's out there to see in not so wonderful living color. For Americans, all they have to do is look across the US/Mexican border to see how most of the rest of the world's population lives. If you want to really "see" it, just fly or drive down there to area's that are away from the tourist area's and the elite ex-pat communities.
    Last edited by Roisin; 10th February 2015 at 17:00.

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