Rich people have feelings too

[Flash]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
The moral of the story? To her — and many others here — I am the 'rich' one. Compared to them, I am (or seem like!) a multi-millionaire.

So think of this: everyone posting on this thread is 'rich' compared with probably at least a third of the world's population....

(And yes, you and I have feelings, for sure. )

If you make over 34,000 a year you are in the global 1%......... I am a 1%'er (in that sense) .

Americans make up half of the world's richest 1%

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The United States holds a disproportionate amount of the world's rich people.

It only takes $34,000 a year, after taxes, to be among the richest 1% in the world. That's for each person living under the same roof, including children. (So a family of four, for example, needs to make $136,000.)

"Rich" is such a perspective based term, it's not a very good way to categorize people.

136,000$ a year a family of 4, after taxes: in Québec, this is $270,000 a year for the family before taxes (yes we pay that much taxes here). Forget being in the 1% of the world, here you are in the 0.5% of the province population. 2 doctors family may make it. At this revenue level, i would be living like a princess (no pun intended).

Compare it with a single mother making 56,000 a year for a family of 3 for example, here we are talking about sacrifice and no respite.

Then, think of the majority of the world population who cannot affort feeding themselves properly - with GMO, forget organics. And you have a picture that is absolutely terrible on the planet.

And I do think that the poor princess has to come down to reality and help others, if she wants to feel like others.

I am consider as in good shape compared with the destitutes of my society, and let me tell you that my health suffers greatly because of overwork, and I make 1/4 of what you are mentioning, after taxes, always running after my breath. Now, i am frankly tired of it - my daughter is out of the bush (she was to have no education because of neurological impairment, she is out of the bush thanks to mom investments into her coming back to health - which cost me an old age pension fund, this is true down to earth reality for the princesses of this world - if they have a heart, start helping, not giving but helping and teaching and promoting health etc, start contesting your sociopathic group tendencies)

Actions speak, not lip service.

I do understand that a Young princess may be caught up in the system and IS in a golden cage and that her means to escape are not that great. However, she has more means than the 99% to do so, nevertheless. But i would definitely not like to have to marry one of the sociopathic ones presented to her.

AND YES THERE IS ALMOST AS MANY SOCIOPATH IN THE BOTTOM ROW OF THE POPULATION AS THERE IS ON THE TOP.

CONCLUSION, NO SOCIOPATH SHOULD BE LEFT TO LEAD, AT ANY GIVEN TIME, ANYWHERE.

[TargeT]

Posted by Violet (here)
Roisin, not sure what to think of the imagery. I know that they are often used to play on people's emotions, and though I hope you are not doing that, I can't help but ask if you can also explain in your own words how you feel these images fit my topic.

I'm trying to be careful here, because I respect people's right to an opinion, but at this point I'm a little disappointed.

Don't pull punches, the post you are referring to is the visual representation of the logical fallacy "Appeal to emotion" . The use of logical fallacy not only discredits the topic at hand, but to an extent the "user" as well.

I personally see it as a level of manipulation that is probably not even intentional for most, as we are innundated with this type of manipulation so often that it becomes second nature for those that are unaware of it.

Manipulation via logical fallacy (aka lies and distractions) should be avoided at all costs, it is a dark art (even when unintentional).

Posted by Roisin (here)
I know of no one who is "pure of heart" who says the rich have feelings too and even starts up a thread about that so as to imply that they even care about all of the suffering and hunger in this world while hoarding all of the money ... money that could be used to eradicate poverty and hunger ... and I say completely eradicate it because they are the ones who have ALL of the money whereas the rest of the world does not.

lots of judgement and "self righteous" statements and a lack of understanding.

1. "rich" is a bad term, your catigory is too broad.. I make more than $34,000 a year, I am the global 1%; I bet a lot of us here on this forum are.

2. People are people, regardless of what genetic lottery winnings they enjoy; and the "spectrum" of people is included at every socioeconomic level... if you're making more than 34,000$ a year are you "hording" all of that money when you don't give it all to charities? No, this is not a very empathetic thought process; things are not this simple.

3. Judgement at large scale should be avoided as much as possible. (it just doesn't work well)

4. MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM! it is a TOOL of the problem, we shouldn't even be focused on money; it's a distraction meant to make separating ones self from empathy and compassion much easier as well as providing a "divide and conquer" structure at MULTIPLE levels of have and have-not (IE, someone posting on this forum who complains about the "rich" while they are very likely among the global 1% or 10% at least).

anyway, be less polarized, more empathetic; it doesn't hurt anything (though it does take a bit of effort)

Posted by Flash (here)

Compare it with a single mother making 56,000 a year for a family of 3 for example, here we are talking about sacrifice and no respite.

Yup, that single mother is in around the global 11-12%, sure it's not the 1%, but it's pretty damn close as far as 90% of the world is concerned.

Posted by Flash (here)
AND YES THERE IS ALMOST AS MANY SOCIOPATH IN THE BOTTOM ROW OF THE POPULATION AS THERE IS ON THE TOP.

CONCLUSION, NO SOCIOPATH SHOULD BE LEFT TO LEAD, AT ANY GIVEN TIME, ANYWHERE.

I agree but would qualify that with this:

I don't think socio/pscyopaths represent more than 3-5% of the population... there are MORE of "US" good people, we just aren't motivated in the same ways that "they" are.

Posted by Roisin (here)
The bottom line is this, those very few who are hoarding all of the money in this country and in the rest of the world are not doing jack squat to eradicate poverty and hunger and one only needs to watch the news or surf the internet to know that with absolute certainty.

BE the change you want to see, everything else will fall into line.

the "someone else needs to do it" attitude has kept us where we are, and will continue to as long as we externalize our power to others and assume we can't effect situations powerfully ourselves (for one reason or another, ie lack of money, lack of fame, lack of what ever... these are just distractions, everyone of us can make a difference and in fact that is the ONLY WAY TO make a difference)

Roisin, you are passionate (or so your words indicate); let the passion motivate and power you. Do not let the passion guide you with out being tempered by logic and reason.

[Roisin]

araucaria

Uh.... ok... yes, everything we see and experience including the chair we are sitting in and the computer in front of us is an illusion... Yea, I get it... sheesh

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Violet (here)
Roisin, not sure what to think of the imagery. I know that they are often used to play on people's emotions, and though I hope you are not doing that, I can't help but ask if you can also explain in your own words how you feel these images fit my topic.

I'm trying to be careful here, because I respect people's right to an opinion, but at this point I'm a little disappointed.

Don't pull punches, the post you are referring to is the visual representation of the logical fallacy "Appeal to emotion" . The use of logical fallacy not only discredits the topic at hand, but to an extent the "user" as well.

I personally see it as a level of manipulation that is probably not even intentional for most, as we are innundated with this type of manipulation so often that it becomes second nature for those that are unaware of it.

Manipulation via logical fallacy (aka lies and distractions) should be avoided at all costs, it is a dark art (even when unintentional).

Posted by Roisin (here)
I know of no one who is "pure of heart" who says the rich have feelings too and even starts up a thread about that so as to imply that they even care about all of the suffering and hunger in this world while hoarding all of the money ... money that could be used to eradicate poverty and hunger ... and I say completely eradicate it because they are the ones who have ALL of the money whereas the rest of the world does not.

lots of judgement and "self righteous" statements and a lack of understanding.

1. "rich" is a bad term, your catigory is too broad.. I make more than $34,000 a year, I am the global 1%; I bet a lot of us here on this forum are.

2. People are people, regardless of what genetic lottery winnings they enjoy; and the "spectrum" of people is included at every socioeconomic level... if you're making more than 34,000$ a year are you "hording" all of that money when you don't give it all to charities? No, this is not a very empathetic thought process; things are not this simple.

3. Judgement at large scale should be avoided as much as possible. (it just doesn't work well)

4. MONEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM! it is a TOOL of the problem, we shouldn't even be focused on money; it's a distraction meant to make separating ones self from empathy and compassion much easier as well as providing a "divide and conquer" structure at MULTIPLE levels of have and have-not (IE, someone posting on this forum who complains about the "rich" while they are very likely among the global 1% or 10% at least).

anyway, be less polarized, more empathetic; it doesn't hurt anything (though it does take a bit of effort)

Posted by Flash (here)

Compare it with a single mother making 56,000 a year for a family of 3 for example, here we are talking about sacrifice and no respite.

Yup, that single mother is in around the global 11-12%, sure it's not the 1%, but it's pretty damn close as far as 90% of the world is concerned.

Posted by Flash (here)
AND YES THERE IS ALMOST AS MANY SOCIOPATH IN THE BOTTOM ROW OF THE POPULATION AS THERE IS ON THE TOP.

CONCLUSION, NO SOCIOPATH SHOULD BE LEFT TO LEAD, AT ANY GIVEN TIME, ANYWHERE.

I agree but would qualify that with this:

I don't think socio/pscyopaths represent more than 3-5% of the population... there are MORE of "US" good people, we just aren't motivated in the same ways that "they" are.

Posted by Roisin (here)
The bottom line is this, those very few who are hoarding all of the money in this country and in the rest of the world are not doing jack squat to eradicate poverty and hunger and one only needs to watch the news or surf the internet to know that with absolute certainty.

BE the change you want to see, everything else will fall into line.

the "someone else needs to do it" attitude has kept us where we are, and will continue to as long as we externalize our power to others and assume we can't effect situations powerfully ourselves (for one reason or another, ie lack of money, lack of fame, lack of what ever... these are just distractions, everyone of us can make a difference and in fact that is the ONLY WAY TO make a difference)

Roisin, you are passionate (or so your words indicate); let the passion motivate and power you. Do not let the passion guide you with out being tempered by logic and reason.

Quite the contrary target...and I suggest you look in the mirror and see who is looking back at you. It is not I who's views on those issues we have been discussing in this thread is skewed. Please stop projecting!

You work for the government right? Keep saying what you're saying in your above post and you may just get a promotion!!

[TargeT]

Posted by Roisin (here)
Quite the contrary target...and I suggest you look in the mirror and see who is looking back at you. Please stop projecting!

I project balance, logic and rationality on everyone; I'd rather just assume it's there. When it's not there I think it's good to point it out.

If you feel that any of my (hopefully constructive) criticism was off I'd love to see your clarification (as text is a very bad way to communicate and misunderstandings are quite common).

If you are going to leave your text as is, then my take on the situation will remain as is.

Posted by Roisin (here)
You work for the government right? Keep saying what you're saying in your above post and you may just get a promotion!!

This is basically a subtle version of the logical Fallacy Ad HOminem

but to answer you: Not only the government, but the military industrial complex (according to the logical fallacy now all statements made by me EVER should be thrown out as trash)

[Roisin]

Wow, I wonder what David Icke would say about what seems to be the prevailing sentiment of those who are posting in this thread!!
I've never seen so much support for the rich in all my living days on the internet!! This is amazing!

At any rate, I can see that I'm needed here as the prevailing views as expressed in this thread call for those like myself who are not afraid of the elite and are not afraid to voice opinions that are politically incorrect at least when it comes to mainstream views.

[TargeT]

Posted by Roisin (here)
Wow, I wonder what David Icke would say about what seems to be the prevailing sentiment of those who are posting in this thread!!
I've never seen so much support for the rich in all my living days on the internet!! This is amazing!

em·pa·thy
ˈempəTHē/
noun
noun: empathy

the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

I am simply stripping away the label "rich" and applying the label "human" and acting from there; in 3-5% of the cases I will be utterly wrong (assuming the sociopath / psychopath population is that size).

I also work from the assumption that the vast majority of people are "mostly good", regardless of their label.

[araucaria]

Posted by Roisin (here)
araucaria

Uh.... ok... yes, everything we see and experience including the chair we are sitting in and the computer in front of us is an illusion... Yea, I get it... sheesh [COLOR="red"]

Er, sorry, no, you don't get it. There is a reality: that's what you need to find.

[Roisin]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
The further you look up the tiers of the pyramid of money and power, the more sociopathy you'll find. So, they may feel some emotions, such as feeling "frightened" that they might lose their fortunes, but among their feelings you won't find compassion for humans and non-human life forms. Someone who cannot feel compassion or remorse (part of the definition of a sociopath) may indeed feel feelings like joy with a stock market rally, but not the (in my opinion) most important feelings a human can possess.

I feel sorry for sociopaths. I cannot imaging the hollowness and emptiness of not feeling compassion. I feel sorry for them, but I also recognize they are the absolute worst choices of whom should be in charge of anything affecting life on Earth.

Yup! You've got that right! Good to see that there are at least a few statements in this thread that are saying it as it is.

[shadowstalker]

It is shameful, it is because of attitudes like that (The rich are selfish) that people like me can not get in any donations for our work to further on our research. the uncanny judgments that go along with it and not seeing the nature of the individual and the work they show for others. Oh they just want to be rich and sit on there butts and just take in the money, and yet expect freebees be sent there way. well it take money to make things happen and to give out those freebees, when equipment brakes down and funds run low, and one needs help to upgrade after the bills have been paid, in the end when some one asks for a bit of help to continue there research, all ppl like us here is you just want to scam, It is shameful.

They just want to be rich and be scammers attitude reaches on so many levels that one can't see straight. the judgment reaches all the way down the ladder.

[Roisin]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by Roisin (here)
araucaria

Uh.... ok... yes, everything we see and experience including the chair we are sitting in and the computer in front of us is an illusion... Yea, I get it... sheesh [COLOR="red"]

Er, sorry, no, you don't get it. There is a reality: that's what you need to find.

Au contraire monsieur!

YOU are the one who is lost.... not me.

[Roisin]

Oh wow! So now I'm being called a scammer just because I'm not agreeing with those of you who think the rich are just the tops! lol...




Once again, I can see that I'm needed here....

But remember this.....

[shadowstalker]

Yes i would like to be rich again and do the same type of charity I had done back in the castle days.
And get done what I need to get done with my research.
And it's not you that I am accusing its the thinking and judgment of it all. And I am not calling you a scammer, what I was saying is that people like to call people who ask for donations and help, scammer. The ones who do that tend to be paranoid or judgmental or jealous.

And seeings how you keep missing the point of the O.P. I will re-post again.

Sometimes it seems that there's a witch hunt going on for people who are (materially) rich, especially in these days of shaky economies.

Their charity is mocked as is their participation in social debates about common people issues (I'm generalising).

I'm not rich in that manner, but I see it, and it's not fair.

[Limor Wolf]

No conversation on the polar issues that characterize our planet, i.e rich-poor, masculine-feminine etc, will be complete without the broader aspect of earth being a petri-dish and an experimental colony and was probably intentionally seeded this way, at least in it's current version.

Duality is a main ingridient on the menu, and it is quite popular, we can see that good portion of it is ordered again and again. So the restaurant is still a favorite haunt place despite the complaints on frequent indigestion.

What seems to be mutual to all range of opinions here on this thread (no matter how it is worded..) is that we are facing some ubnormally uncaring behaviours as an extention of a handful of human behaviour. The core of this anthropology has nothing to do with money and everything to do with spirit.
Any perception as if all wealthy man has uncaring behaviours and unmoral etiquette is exactly what the seeders of this PROGRAM (a good and accurate word that deserves some further thought..) were intending. They would have sincerely thanked us 'on behalf of the staff and management', if only they knew how to thank and how to be sincere. Or, maybe it is that our issues are not with other humans, per se, but it goes a lot further than this..

I appreciated araucaria definitions

-" These have no basis in our reality beyond the illusory one we are individually and collectively prepared to give them.All we have is entities and energies, which are the same one thing"

To get upset with each other misses the point. to put all the people that can register under certain category against one's rifle barrel is not wise or truthfull at all. Relating to behaviour is far more accurate, and will not attract so much fire.
Targeting certain population by association is never recommended as it can not align with the truth. Commenting on behaviours is a different story. Roisin, I hope you can find some resonance with what I wrote here..

How do we find the way out of the restaurant, and have we finished to be entertained with what it has to offer? Judging by parts of this thread, there may still be a way to go..

However, the one who comes out last have to do the dishes ~


All the best,

Limor

[araucaria]

So, what do we do? The poor wage war on the rich and the rich die? Is that it?

Æsop. (Sixth century B.C.) Fables.

The Harvard Classics. 1909–14.

The Wind and the Sun

THE WIND and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger. Suddenly they saw a traveller coming down the road, and the Sun said: “I see a way to decide our dispute. Whichever of us can cause that traveller to take off his cloak shall be regarded as the stronger. You begin.” So the Sun retired behind a cloud, and the Wind began to blow as hard as it could upon the traveller. But the harder he blew the more closely did the traveller wrap his cloak round him, till at last the Wind had to give up in despair. Then the Sun came out and shone in all his glory upon the traveller, who soon found it too hot to walk with his cloak on.

“KINDNESS EFFECTS MORE THAN SEVERITY.”

[ghostrider]

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by ghostrider (here)
I worked on the Rockefeller private ranch in N.C. when I got out of the military ... I met ms ogalvie's three boys , they were just as done to Earth as you and me ... they loved to go sport shooting and I spent a lot of time with them away from prying eyes ... they never look down on anyone as less than , they are always positive and believe it or not in some ways are more sensitive than you and I ... they know where they are , and they are trapped in a world of demands , they must do , perform , and achieve in everything ... they just want to be normal boys ... everything they do is put on display ... the ranch was their private get away from the world , the true elite never interact with the general public and they hide their wealth , being discrete is their most valued asset ... instead of them joining a country club , they built their own private club on 15,000 acres that they use twice a year for two days ... it had it's own water plant , gas station , three mansions , 15 ranch houses , a hog farm , strawberry farm , pine straw farm , hybrid deer farm , golf course , lake , horseback riding trails , a very high tech clay pigeon shooting range , a riding stable with 12 horses , 15 employees , all for inner family use only ... their passion is watching wild birds ... go figure ...

Don't you think it is much too much for maybe 4 people, two week ends in a years, while billions are starving?

If they had heart, which some truly have, and others wanting to get out of this golden jail, if they have heart, good, if they still can use it once into adult life.

I have seen some of those reaaaallllly rich, to a point where they are not telling, being absolutely depraved ... i meant deprived... of understanding and caring for others less fortunate, stabbing each other in the back as well, the roots of sociopathy.

I worked for them for only one year , I couldn't take it ... the mother had a house in England and liked it so much she had it taken apart brick by brick and shipped to N.C. and rebuilt on the coast to make sure all the pieces made it , then took apart again and moved to the private ranch ... hell they bought a tea tray 8x8 inches that cost more than I make in ten years ... the wealthy have feelings but their minds are completely out of control ...

[Innocent Warrior]

I think Roisin may have been Robin Hood in a past life.

[lastlegs]

The rich implement policy. They affect the lives of all of us. Unlike the majority, they, the few, have the power to hurt many.

The rich are free to do what ever they want accept one thing: disparage in any way the rich community they belong to.

The rich on a whole do not have the ability to risk, fearing the loss of money and its status, they buy or steal and then suppress creativity. They themselves do not have it. That is why they are deadly as leaders and need to be kept in check.

Finally, when do the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

Example of what I am talking about I live in a town of 25,000 in Northeast Texas.

Texas removed 5.1 billion dollars from the educational budget of the state. This is to force people into charter schools which are all about profit and not accountability.

Schools in rich districts legally able to avoid the system have much much more. So much that one of them built a 60 million dollar football stadium with glass boxes. The irony is that is no longer usage in less than ten years because so many private industry corners were cut in the building -- it is falling apart.

My small town tax base of really expensive homes is either outside the city limits and not added or has been declared a historic district and therefore, tax exempt. Thus, our schools are rapidly deteriorating and now the real rich have to send their kids away for a real education.

[araucaria]

Since Jean-Paul Sartre has been quoted here, it would be relevant to look at his existentialist philosophy of existence before essence, facticity and authenticity, and being-for-others. The following link analyzes his ‘respectful prostitute’, but the same goes for the respectable affluent.
‘Facticity is the collection of elements against which an individual is defined.’ Wealth would be one such element. To allow this essence to override one’s own existence is inauthentic / bad faith. To do so with respect to another person is to deny their individual freedom to be authentic. Conversely, if one accepts that freedom in others, one cannot second-guess them on the basis of their affluence or any other attribute, including their track record (which also includes past lives). You cannot even work on the statistical basis that most of them will act in bad faith. Granting to all others the freedom that one should be exercising oneself means not counting chickens until they are hatched.
http://www.literaryramblings.com/100...an-paul-sartre

[shadowstalker]

Posted by araucaria (here)
Since Jean-Paul Sartre has been quoted here, it would be relevant to look at his existentialist philosophy of existence before essence, facticity and authenticity, and being-for-others. The following link analyzes his ‘respectful prostitute’, but the same goes for the respectable affluent.
‘Facticity is the collection of elements against which an individual is defined.’ Wealth would be one such element. To allow this essence to override one’s own existence is inauthentic / bad faith. To do so with respect to another person is to deny their individual freedom to be authentic. Conversely, if one accepts that freedom in others, one cannot second-guess them on the basis of their affluence or any other attribute, including their track record (which also includes past lives). You cannot even work on the statistical basis that most of them will act in bad faith. Granting to all others the freedom that one should be exercising oneself means not counting chickens until they are hatched.
http://www.literaryramblings.com/100...an-paul-sartre

Thank you I was just about to post something about that, thank you for catching that.

[shadowstalker]

Posted by Roisin (here)
Wow, I wonder what David Icke would say about what seems to be the prevailing sentiment of those who are posting in this thread!!
I've never seen so much support for the rich in all my living days on the internet!! This is amazing!

At any rate, I can see that I'm needed here as the prevailing views as expressed in this thread call for those like myself who are not afraid of the elite and are not afraid to voice opinions that are politically incorrect at least when it comes to mainstream views.

I think even David Icke CAN determine the difference between the rich/super rich and elitist/rich elitist, Most of his work is paid for by donations and volunteerism, And i bet some of that came from millionaires/billionaires who would like to keep nameless. I wish I had his luck , seriously I do....