Forgiveness: Necessary, or just a way of stopping you from retaliating to aggression?

[Wind]

Posted by Violet (here)
Do they? I think some people know very well what they are doing and if I decide to forgive them, it's not because they didn't know what they were doing, although they would like you to believe that.

That's certainly a good question. Maybe they at least think know what they are doing, but ultimately they are only hurting themselves. If you really knew what you were doing, you wouldn't hurt others, because you would know better.

[Sean]

I think, for me, the issue is one of balance. If someone maliciously attacks you, and there is no response, things are out of balance. respect, on any level must not be asked for.

It must be TAKEN.

By that, I mean, how you live your life, your actions, your inner self etc..all these things add up to how others perceive you. Everyone has people who respects them to a certain extent, for many reasons. then we have those who will not respect you no matter what, and take upon themselves to intentionally disrespect you, in various ways. they do so primarily for one reason.

because they think they can get away with it, with little to no repercussion. because, if there WERE repercussions, they would hesitate out of self-preservation. I think it's everyone's personal responsibility to let your boundaries be known. that is, what you will and will NOT tolerate. response to malicious aggression is a way to do that, a very effective way. If someone assaults you, and you do nothing, you've taught them that they can assault you and nothing will happen. If, on the other hand, they physically assault you, and you beat the SOUL out of them for it..they'll think twice next time, won't they? same with verbal/psychological aggression.

a response is required so others know where not to tread. if you don't enforce boundaries..welcome to the world of being a doormat. After balance is restored..forgiveness becomes much easier.

Edit: This video(graphic)of a man busting down a door with a machete, only to be shot by the residents of the home, illustrates my point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT1JjwuAxmQ#t=126

Yes, forgive..after the threat has been..neutralized.

[Iloveyou]

deleted by Iloveyou

[Anchor]

Forgiveness of the self is as equally important as the forgiveness of the other (for so long as we do not see them as the same thing!).

If you will pardon me quoting from the Law Of One Material... there is an interesting opinion on Karma and the relationship with Forgiveness

--

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=34&v=e&sc=1&ss=1
34.4 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?

Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

34.5 Questioner: If an entity develops what is called a karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalyst that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.

34.6 Questioner: Thank you. Can you give me examples of catalytic action to produce learning under each of the following headings from the last session we had… Can you give me an example of the self unmanifested producing learning catalyst?

Ra: I am Ra. We observed your interest in the catalyst of pain. This experience is most common among your entities. The pain may be of the physical complex. More often it is of the mental and emotional complex. In some few cases the pain is spiritual in complex-nature. This creates a potential for learning. The lessons to be learned vary. Almost always these lessons include patience, tolerance, and the ability for the light touch.

Very often the catalyst for emotional pain, whether it be the death of the physical complex of one other-self which is loved or some other seeming loss, will simply result in the opposite, in a bitterness, an impatience, a souring. This is catalyst which has gone awry. In these cases, then, there will be additional catalyst provided to offer the unmanifested self further opportunities for discovering the self as all-sufficient Creator containing all that there is and full of joy.

--

I hope you don't mind me posting that here.

[Lifebringer]

Put them in an orbit outside until your heart can welcome them inside. Gives them a chance to grow, and you a chance to heal.

[Fox]

Does forgiveness remain in a person's dictionary if they understand who they are, deep down below their locked cellar door? Forgiveness is a change in opinion to love, from hate. I ask this because I haven't had to forgive anyone for quite some time. If an action is taken in a negative way to me, or around me, I know where to file that experience immediately and then act in the manner which best resolves the situation. I'm one of those "love and light" fellows, but that doesn't negate defense. I will never purposefully take a life. I will never purposely hurt another soul. Now, that doesn't mean by own morals I can't find a way to restrain you to prevent harm to an otherwise defenseless thing. Will I? I don't know, nobody does until their living the circumstance. Every action taken by anyone is 100% legitimate to that soul. If you had their memories, their perspective, everything that comprises us, you'd act the same way. Knowing that, nothing is evil, rather it's just another path that you don't align with and that helps you grow, to really understand who you are in this particular life. So, instead of forgiving those who don't align with my preferred vibration, I just immediately understand them instead. Is that forgiving anyway? Boy, I hate definitions sometimes.

[Violet]

It is difficult. I apply the understanding-part too and then you go through the process of how they must have reasoned to come to such an act and you understand and then, it conflicts to what you would have done in the same situation, and you think: if I know what's right here, why can't they? Then comes the next question: But what is right? Right? Your "right" or "his" or "mine"?

And all these questions must then combine with their diffuseness not being a valid excuse.

[Anchor]

Posted by Fox (here)
Is that forgiving anyway? Boy, I hate definitions sometimes.

This is a really good point. What is forgiveness anyway?

I consider there to be a substantial depth to complete forgiveness - it has much more complexity than the normal culturally glib definition of the "forgive and forget" variety. (Same is true for lots of words like this - "love" is another one that seems hard to really pin down).

To me forgiveness is a deep "resolution" and "acceptance" such that there is no residual attachment and experience - the situation is finished, the lessons learned, the service rendered. It is in some ways a healing.

Certainly, it is not simply the empty intonation of the words "I forgive you" and then completely passing up on the everything to do with the extraction of the lessons and wisdom from the situation that you were offered, or offered yourself - and of course dealing with the attendant karma.

In my experience it can be a tough process that takes some time and effort.

[The Canceller]

''

^^^ Essential reading on the subject, IMHO.

[ulli]

Posted by Anchor (here)

Posted by Fox (here)
Is that forgiving anyway? Boy, I hate definitions sometimes.

This is a really good point. What is forgiveness anyway?

I consider there to be a substantial depth to complete forgiveness - it has much more complexity than the normal culturally glib definition of the "forgive and forget" variety. (Same is true for lots of words like this - "love" is another one that seems hard to really pin down).

To me forgiveness is a deep "resolution" and "acceptance" such that there is no residual attachment and experience - the situation is finished, the lessons learned, the service rendered. It is in some ways a healing.

Certainly, it is not simply the empty intonation of the words "I forgive you" and then completely passing up on the everything to do with the extraction of the lessons and wisdom from the situation that you were offered, or offered yourself - and of course dealing with the attendant karma.

In my experience it can be a tough process that takes some time and effort.

I agree with this.
To function at living a decent and fulfilled life we don't want to walk around with resentment cluttering up our emotional body, or worse, plotting revenge.
Forgiveness seals the endless chain of reaction after reaction, that goes back generations.
Clean slate. Start over. Very energising...

[RunningDeer]

Forgiveness is another way of expressing the Love that I am/We are. I use these as a guide. And for the times when I need a visual I’ve got a poster board and sticky note.

Forgiveness is appreciated from another when it comes from a place of Truth rather than expectation.

<3

[lake]

Different species whom look alike exist here.
You could segregate them into 3 main sub types if you wished to:
Man
Human
Psychopath

This should enable you to comprehend why this vibration is failing!
You consider love to be your saving but love is a selfish act felt by only 1 sub species.
Your definition of love is incorrect.
Empathy is the correct term for that which you feel when you choose to freely give your self.
What always created a feeling of dissatisfaction within my awareness was the lack of care and acceptance of injustices which are the current norm whilst partaking of this physical flavour.
But if man (of course includes woman) are a different vibration then it makes a sad sence?
Do you dream in the 1st or 3rd person?
Do you image your susposed memories within your disposed mind of the past you believe you lived in the 1st or 3rd person?
Humans do it one way and man does it the other!
I wonder!
Many say to do no harm but my feeling is this should be:
ALLOW NO HARM
Then one can act to protect those weaker than YOU
The strong of mind or body should care for the least.
They should not utilise them for their own selfish gain.

[Philaletheian]

True forgiveness is in knowing that there is nothing to forgive.
..::OM::..

[raregem]

The time of reflection and perception has passed. I was able to come to real forgiveness for self and others. I feel it. I am not angered or saddened by it. I am at peace. One persons friendship has grown. I was heard. I was asked for forgiveness. It made all the difference in the world to have been acknowledged. This came about AFTER I had found my peace with all that transpired.
My other friend has never been heard from again. I want for him to have peace.

[araucaria]

Only last week I listened to an opera singer specializing in the fiendishly difficult 20th century repertoire who was giving tips on various practical and technical matters to an Internet audience of French horn players of all people – well she does play a wind instrument of sorts. One point she made was about how she deals in realtime with the imperfections that inevitably crop up from time to time. The temptation is to scold yourself really badly, which would have the disastrous effect of immediately taking you out of the state of concentration you are in and the whole performance would fall to pieces. The only way is to react as if you were a friend. You wouldn’t scold a friend, you would make light of the incident and encourage them to keep going. If you can learn to do that (making of course a mental note to address the issue later when you have time), then you will register just a slight dip in your performance from which you can gently rise back up to your top level.

If this is how a live performer claims to keep her act together – and she certainly does that – then there may be a lesson here for the rest of us as well. Do we not often visualize our four score and some as a live performance; we compose and rehearse the script together between lives, leaving plenty of room for improvisation when we get here. The improvisation part may be seen as the above-mentioned imperfections, but they are only imperfections to the extent that they deviate from the prepared script; on the other hand, being factored in from the outset (part of the deal as a kind of cosmic jam session), they may also be seen as the life and soul of the party so to speak, although they still need to be kept in check. How this is done is by being a friend to yourself, not your own worst enemy. Make mental notes by all means, but in this case addressing the issue later when you have time may sometimes mean not until the life review after you’re gone. In the meantime you have to keep going and hold everything together: the show must go on. Nobody likes a flop.

There is a corollary to all this. Being a friend to yourself does not rule out being a friend to others: on the contrary. If they fluff their lines, you can either minimize the problem and steady the ship, as a forgiving friend would do, or you can contribute to an impending disaster. It may be that it is the character who is going to murder your character: the question then is whether this is to proceed smoothly, more or less as planned, or not. Of course my analogy breaks down at some point, the outstanding issue being at this stage the fact that we have seemingly strayed so far from the script that we are no longer sure where all this is supposed to be heading and we are improvising all the time. We don’t really know, but are likely working on the basis that the downfall of the elite is not so much the original script as a collective improvisation to get back to the original script. The doings of the elite would then be a nasty dip in the performance that has to be shrugged off before gently rising back up to the proper level. There is of course another script involving the downfall of humanity, but it has already had a good run and we are doing something different this season. The play has a happy ending but some players don’t like the unfamiliar new script and are sticking to the old one. It seems to me that we are trying to muddle through with minimum fuss – so-called ‘new age passivity’ may be a part of that process, and it is a worthy goal. For what is performing, if not conscious, reflective living on a higher plane? – occasionally disrupted by plain, unconscious and unreflective living.