Germanwings flight 4U9525 crash in Southern France

[panopticon]

Posted by Hervé (here)
Let's see...

The emergency was declared by the guys monitoring the flight when they got no responses from the pilots... that would have gotten fighter jets to scramble from the closest air force base or any flying jets close by.

What fails to make sense is this (see post # 42): why wasn't that fail-safe procedure engaged for a definitely hijacked airplane, be it heart attack or suicidal impulse?

That plane wasn't remotely controlled to counter a hijack... therefore, that counter-hijack system is totally useless, or... totally effective in crashing targeted planes!

Just throwing out a random thought...

The length of time between the pilot leaving the cockpit (possibly to go to the toilet) and the crash, may not have been sufficient for a problem to be noticed and/or action to be taken (by air traffic controllers etc).

I haven't been following details of this crash but remember vaguely somewhere it being said that the co-pilots details hadn't been released.
It stuck in my mind because it sounded like the names of the pilot & other crew etc had been announced.
Is this accurate? Again, I've not been following this and that just stuck as seeming a bit peculiar.

-- Pan

[turiya]

Just my 2 cents.

An elecromagnetic pulse wave has been known to knock out electronics, stop cars moving, take out power grids, etc. From what is understood about this type of aircraft, it is the one that contained the most state-of-the-art electronics equipment in its class. Could be that a strong electromagnetic pulse wave could be the reason to prevent the pilot from regaining access to the cockpit door, especially if it was tied into an electronic circuitry. Co-pilot not responding to the pilot during the time he was trying to break back into the cockpit could simply be because the co-pilot had his hands full (mind focused on) trying to get the plane back up to speed and flying horizontally again, as the automatic pilot could have be suddenly taken out by the same electromagnetic wave pulse.

Its been said that at the time of the Roswell crash, the military was testing a Manhattan Project type of electromagnetic generator in that area of the desert that could be used to cloak aircraft from radar. This is supposed what brought down several alien space craft unexpectedly. The Large Hadron Collider is capable of putting out a large electromagnet field similar to that which was being done in the Manhattan Project - to cloak a naval ship from being detected via radar system. A great disaster resulting from scientists playing with energy manipulating magnetic transformers. The military/scientist will learn from such mistakes. Taking down UFOs was done by accident. The scientists at Cern would know perfectly well whether their "little toy" would be capable of taking down aircraft in the vicinity. A flawed, fairly large electromagnetic magnet may have been what resulted in an unexpected electromagnetic pulsed wave in the direction of the flying airbus.

Cern was running at the time the airbus went down & shut down within hours of the fatal crash. I'm sure they will learn from this mistake as well - a new powerful weapon that will be handed over to the military.

Pardon, if the following video has already been posted.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yUXXdtH-Tsc

[Carmody]

Posted by Flash (here)
For a group of German pilots not wanting to fly the day after the accident, this means that they know that the pilot they know was not suicidal and did not take the plane down. It means they suspect something else entirely. They should be interviewed.

after 9/11, the grounding of all planes, was possibly about (rumored) removing all the key connectivity components of the remote fly capacities of the Boeing planes.

The story goes that the airbus planes still had them, it was left intact, due to security features being more robust. The German planes being on the ground for an extra day, might be long enough to remove the primary connection points on their airbus planes that have remote control capacity.

Regarding the idea of an ability to get back into the cabin, it might be a purely mechanical system that the pilot and co-piolt both know about. a secret of that nature, known to thousands, would be difficult to keep. In order to be failproof, it has to be mechanical. Otherwise it is useless. An aspect of a failproof system that is mechanical in nature, is that locking this secondary access point off, from inside the cockpit, is indeed a possibility. It depends on who is in the cockpit and how the manufacturer of the plane decides they want the whole contraption to function. Whether they wanted a back up system, or a back up system for their back up system. And those would be closely held details, for airbus.

[panopticon]

Posted by turiya (here)
Co-pilot not responding to the pilot during the time he was trying to break back into the cockpit could simply be because the co-pilot had his hands full (mind focused on) trying to get the plane back up to speed and flying horizontally again.

It's been reported that as part of the safety procedures the cabin can be accessed via an override keypad.

It appears that the co-pilot would have had to deliberately lock the pilot out of the cockpit in that instance.

The "lock" mechanism in the cockpit, to override the keypad access, is there to protect the cockpit in the case of a cabin crew member being coerced in a terrorist incident.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs

-- Pan

[syrwong]

At first I thought, no! this wouldn't be another conspiracy? As it develops, it is very much like conspiracy one more time. Are we that easily led to believe suicidal pilots like to carry hundreds of innocent lives with him? It must have happened quite a few times when air disasters were blamed on pilots commiting suicide (this was raised as a possibility in MH370). I don’t this is valid. It is like a suicidal chef would want to poison all restaurant customers with cyanide before he goes.
More likely the copilot lost consciousness and if there was a way to get in from the outside, the mechanism had been tampered with.
I don’t believe all things could disintegrate into small pieces, even if the collision speed was 600 mph. Over-dramatization is employed too often in conspiracy cases to convince the public, such as two planes could bring down two towers in one day, whereas the correct reasoning is that because there must be variations of factors , even the first tower fell, the second tower should still stand the “impact”. Common sense is contradicted too often and by accepting these nonsenses that one day we will all lose our common sense.

[Sophocles]

Regarding the suicide theory:

Abstract:
Vuorio A, Laukkala T, Navathe P, Budowle B, Eyre A, Sajantila A. Aircraft-assisted pilot suicides: lessons to be learned. Aviat Space Environ Med 2014; 85:841–6.

Aircraft assisted suicides were studied in the United States, United Kingdom, Germany, and Finland during 1956-2012 by means of literature search and accident case analysis. According to our study the frequency varied slightly between the studies. Overall, the new estimate of aircraft assisted suicides in the United States in a 20-yr period (1993-2012) is 0.33% (95% CI 0.21-0.49) (24/7244). In the detailed accident case analysis, it was found that in five out of the eight cases from the United States, someone knew of prior suicidal ideation before the aircraft assisted fatality. The caveats of standard medico-legal autopsy and accident investigation methods in investigation of suspected aircraft assisted suicides are discussed. It is suggested that a psychological autopsy should be performed in all such cases. Also the social context and possibilities of the prevention of aviation-related suicides were analyzed. In addition, some recent aircraft assisted suicides carried out using commercial aircraft during scheduled services and causing many casualties are discussed.

Link: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00008/art00010

[turiya]

Posted by panopticon (here)

Posted by turiya (here)
Co-pilot not responding to the pilot during the time he was trying to break back into the cockpit could simply be because the co-pilot had his hands full (mind focused on) trying to get the plane back up to speed and flying horizontally again.

It's been reported that as part of the safety procedures the cabin can be accessed via an override keypad.

It appears that the co-pilot would have had to deliberately lock the pilot out of the cockpit in that instance.

The "lock" mechanism in the cockpit, to override the keypad access, is there to protect the cockpit in the case of a cabin crew member being coerced in a terrorist incident.

-- Pan

Or, like I said, the co-pilot had his plate absolutely full at the time trying to keep the airbus up to speed & getting the plane flying horizontal again - as the automatic pilot could have been taken offline by a pulsed electromagnetic wave. No time to manually get up from his seat and open the door manually, as the plane is noted to have been descending at a rate of up to 5000 feet a minute.

[araucaria]

Posted by turiya (here)
Just my 2 cents.

An elecromagnetic pulse wave has been known to knock out electronics, stop cars moving, take out power grids, etc. From what is understood about this type of aircraft, it is the one that contained the most state-of-the-art electronics equipment in its class. Could be that a strong electromagnetic pulse wave could be the reason to prevent the pilot from regaining access to the cockpit door, especially if it was tied into an electronic circuitry. Co-pilot not responding to the pilot during the time he was trying to break back into the cockpit could simply be because the co-pilot had his hands full (mind focused on) trying to get the plane back up to speed and flying horizontally again, as the automatic pilot could have be suddenly taken out by the same electromagnetic wave pulse.

Its been said that at the time of the Roswell crash, the military was testing a Manhattan Project type of electromagnetic generator in that area of the desert that could be used to cloak aircraft from radar. This is supposed what brought down several alien space craft unexpectedly. The Large Hadron Collider is capable of putting out a large electromagnet field similar to that which was being done in the Manhattan Project - to cloak a naval ship from being detected via radar system. A great disaster resulting from scientists playing with energy manipulating magnetic transformers. The military/scientist will learn from such mistakes. Taking down UFOs was done by accident. The scientists at Cern would know perfectly well whether their "little toy" would be capable of taking down aircraft in the vicinity. A flawed, fairly large electromagnetic magnet may have been what resulted in an unexpected electromagnetic pulsed wave in the direction of the flying airbus.

Cern was running at the time the airbus went down & shut down within hours of the fatal crash. I'm sure they will learn from this mistake as well - a new powerful weapon that will be handed over to the military.

Pardon, if the following video has already been posted.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yUXXdtH-Tsc

The Airbus 320 may be different from other craft, but there are something like 3,600 Airbus 320s flying, which are notably a favourite for lowcost short-haul flights across Europe. I have flown over the Alps in them several times myself. The question is, why this particular craft, which was 200 miles away, and not all the others passing much closer every day?

[Flash]

Intuition, intuition

tells me that the crash has something to do with the increase tension around Nato and Russia, and around military exercises and trial of new technologies. Not with CERN or suicidal actions.

http://www.euronews.com/2015/03/16/n...the-black-sea/

[QUOTE][/


NATO has held a series of naval exercises in the Black Sea off the Romanian coast, ahead of the one year anniversary of Russia’ annexation of Crimea.

Warships of from six NATO countries – the US, Canada, Turkey, Germany, Italy and Romania – took part just 300 kilometers of Crimea.

The alliance stresses no additional plans were after Russia increased its Russian military presence in this region.

However NATO is sending a serious message by not cancelling the exercises, euronews’ Andrei Beketov reports.

The Romanian air force work with the vessels to simulate anti-air and anti-submarine warfare. The whole operation is led from the USS Vicksburg.

“Obviously the situation here is very unfortunate. And so coming here demonstrate that three NATO allies that we have in the Black Sea – Turkey Bulgaria and Romania – are very valuable members of the alliance. And its just as important that we come and train with them,” said US Rear Admiral Brad Williamson.

The exercise sees a Russian jet flying over at low altitude.

Russian air and naval approaches are closely monitored by ships radars and sonars.

Moscow has accused NATO of “war games”, saying that they could have serious consequences for the settlement of the Ukraine conflict.

Last week, Russia’s defence ministry said it had begun large scale military exercises.
QUOTE]

[turiya]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by turiya (here)
Just my 2 cents.

An elecromagnetic pulse wave has been known to knock out electronics, stop cars moving, take out power grids, etc. From what is understood about this type of aircraft, it is the one that contained the most state-of-the-art electronics equipment in its class. Could be that a strong electromagnetic pulse wave could be the reason to prevent the pilot from regaining access to the cockpit door, especially if it was tied into an electronic circuitry. Co-pilot not responding to the pilot during the time he was trying to break back into the cockpit could simply be because the co-pilot had his hands full (mind focused on) trying to get the plane back up to speed and flying horizontally again, as the automatic pilot could have be suddenly taken out by the same electromagnetic wave pulse.

Its been said that at the time of the Roswell crash, the military was testing a Manhattan Project type of electromagnetic generator in that area of the desert that could be used to cloak aircraft from radar. This is supposed what brought down several alien space craft unexpectedly. The Large Hadron Collider is capable of putting out a large electromagnet field similar to that which was being done in the Manhattan Project - to cloak a naval ship from being detected via radar system. A great disaster resulting from scientists playing with energy manipulating magnetic transformers. The military/scientist will learn from such mistakes. Taking down UFOs was done by accident. The scientists at Cern would know perfectly well whether their "little toy" would be capable of taking down aircraft in the vicinity. A flawed, fairly large electromagnetic magnet may have been what resulted in an unexpected electromagnetic pulsed wave in the direction of the flying airbus.

Cern was running at the time the airbus went down & shut down within hours of the fatal crash. I'm sure they will learn from this mistake as well - a new powerful weapon that will be handed over to the military.

Pardon, if the following video has already been posted.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yUXXdtH-Tsc

The Airbus 320 may be different from other craft, but there are something like 3,600 Airbus 320s flying, which are notably a favourite for lowcost short-haul flights across Europe. I have flown over the Alps in them several times myself. The question is, why this particular craft, which was 200 miles away, and not all the others passing much closer every day?

Only a knowledgeable electromagnetic Cern scientist, that would be well versed with the effects of a malfunctioning very large electro-magnet, or several magnets, would know if a strongly pulsed electromagnetic wave could be unexpectedly launched in an undetermined direction, would know this.

The take down of UFOs at Roswell was also an unexpected outcome that literally 'fell' into their laps.

[panopticon]

Posted by turiya (here)

Posted by panopticon (here)
It's been reported that as part of the safety procedures the cabin can be accessed via an override keypad.

It appears that the co-pilot would have had to deliberately lock the pilot out of the cockpit in that instance.

The "lock" mechanism in the cockpit, to override the keypad access, is there to protect the cockpit in the case of a cabin crew member being coerced in a terrorist incident.

-- Pan

Or, like I said, the co-pilot had his plate absolutely full at the time trying to keep the airbus up to speed & getting the plane flying horizontal again - as the automatic pilot could have been taken offline by a pulsed electromagnetic wave. No time to manually get up from his seat and open the door manually, as the plane is noted to have been descending at a rate of up to 5000 feet a minute.

The co-pilot would not have had to leave his seat.
After the pilot enters the key for access the co-pilot would have to deliberately deny access before the 30 second timer had finished.
After 30 seconds the pilot would have had access.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs

As it all appears to be electronic it may have been disabled though it is strange if that was the case that it didn't show up on the cockpit voice recorder.

Also, no reports of a last statement or anything like that so I'm a tad confused by this one.

Electronic failure leading to loss of cabin pressure and door lock mechanism failure?

Seems a stretch but so does silent suicide by a seemingly healthy young bloke...

-- Pan

[araucaria]

Posted by turiya (here)
The take down of UFOs at Roswell was also an unexpected outcome that literally 'fell' into their laps.

My point was that if the Roswell incident was caused from the ground, then all the UFOs in the vicinity likely got hit, and if not all, then proportionately a much higher percentage than the Airbus 320s getting swatted as they buzz over Geneva. And incidentally, if CERN were to blame, then any comparison with Airbus 320 crashes elsewhere in the world would become pointless. Also I think that we are talking about the side-effects of Cern's official activity; in which case you would expect a safety regulation to be in place. I hardly think any CERN scientists would sit on that information - after all, they are some of the regular users of Geneva Airport.

[turiya]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by turiya (here)
The take down of UFOs at Roswell was also an unexpected outcome that literally 'fell' into their laps.

My point was that if the Roswell incident was caused from the ground, then all the UFOs in the vicinity likely got hit, and if not all, then proportionately a much higher percentage than the Airbus 320s getting swatted as they buzz over Geneva. And incidentally, if CERN were to blame, then any comparison with Airbus 320 crashes elsewhere in the world would become pointless. Also I think that we are talking about the side-effects of Cern's official activity; in which case you would expect a safety regulation to be in place. I hardly think any CERN scientists would sit on that information - after all, they are some of the regular users of Geneva Airport.

Yes, I understand your point. I am not a physicist by any means. However, the incident at Roswell did not involve such an elaborate set-up as the largest machine in the world had - using very powerful electromagnets. My sense is if one of the magnets lost it function then that could have made the pulse unexpectedly more highly directional in nature.

Certainly, the LHC was running at the time in order to make the determination that an electromagnet had malfunctioned. And it is known that it shut down within a couple hours after the airbus went down. One has to consider that it was not just a coincidence.

[Hervé]

Oooops, I might have it all wrong (post #60): the ATC only sent something out when the plane disappeared (=crashed) from its radar and asking pilots in the area if there is anything they could spot.

Ok, lets just clear this up...

MM7168 (NOT the Airbus) squawks 7700 at 09:35 GMT, which is 10:35am Central European Time (Promise!) just to the East in Northern Italy.

The Airbus, started the rapid descent at 09:31 GMT, or 10:31 CET.

We're confident that there's zero connection?

@AreOut of course, every page of this thread is pure speculation!

"MM7168 would fly with its transponder on and it would be seen on ATC radar anyway" - I'm not sure what point you're making?

One jet descends and crashes, the other declares an emergency, within 5 minutes of each other in the same area both at FL350. Those are the facts.

The plane that crashed was about Marseilles' vertical when it started its dive... so, please, leave CERN out of the picture...

[araucaria]

I just saw on BFMTV that the copilot was trained at the Lufthansa Flight Training facility in Phoenix Arizona, and that he interrupted his training for several months. They have half a dozen facilities closer to home; interesting that he should go to the US, and interesting that he should go AWOL. What else is there to do in Phoenix Arizona, I wonder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Flight_Training

[Flash]

Here it is

[/http://www.stripes.com/news/us/3-american-victims-in-germanwings-crash-include-federal-contractor-daughter-1.336538

WASHINGTON — Three Americans were presumed dead in the plane crash in the southern French Alps, including a U.S. government contractor and her daughter, the State Department said Wednesday.

Identified victims were Yvonne Selke of Nokesville, Va., an employee for 23 years at Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. in Washington, and her daughter, Emily, a recent graduate of Drexel University in Philadelphia. The U.S. government has not yet identified the third American it said was on the plane.

Yvonne Selke performed work under contract with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's satellite mapping office, Booz Allen and the Defense Department confirmed in statements after the AP had reported her identity and employment.

"Every death is a tragedy, but seldom does a death affect us all so directly and unexpectedly," NGA Director Robert Cardillo said. "All of us offer our deepest condolences and will keep her family and her colleagues in our thoughts."

Booz Allen's chief personnel officer, Betty Thompson, described Selke as "a wonderful co-worker and a dedicated employee who spent her career with the firm."

Friends and co-workers of Selke's circulated a photograph of her showing a smiling, middle-aged woman with brown hair and eyeglasses, and a photo of Emily showing a blond young woman with dark eyes and a bright smile. They described Selke as a diligent and generous worker who regularly brought cookies to co-workers.

A person who answered the phone at Selke's home said the family was not providing any information.

Emily Selke was a "go-getter" who was interested in festival management while in school, said Xela Batchelder, a Drexel professor who taught her. Batchelder said Emily Selke participated in Fringe University, which holds courses around the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, an arts festival in Scotland. She also helped put together the Pittsburgh Fringe Festival.

"She just kept being a self-learner even after school," Batchelder said. "We're just really upset, and we'll really miss her and she's just an amazing person."

Alex Tyler, who was a friend at Drexel, sent a statement to the AP that she said was written by a group of her close friends.

"Emily was a truly amazing woman, and we were honored to have her in our lives," the statement said. "She was an incredibly fun person who never shied away from a challenge. Emily grew our hearts with acceptance of everyone and grew our minds with new music and her love of travel. She was a light that shined in our lives, and we will always remember her with a smile on her face and a funny story to share."

Drexel University said in a statement that Emily Selke graduated with honors in 2013 and was a music industry major. Her sorority at Drexel, Gamma Sigma Sigma, said in a statement on its Facebook page with a photo of Emily that it was mourning her loss and said she "always put others before herself and cared deeply for all those in her life."


State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the U.S. was reviewing records to determine whether any other U.S. citizens might have been on board the flight.

"We extend our deepest condolences to the families and loved ones of the 150 people on board," Psaki said.

Further details about Yvonne Selke's work for the secretive Pentagon agency were not immediately available. Most information about her assignment and contact information had already been removed Wednesday from Booz Allen's internal network.

The Germanwings A320 lost radio contact with air traffic controllers over the southern French Alps during a seemingly routine flight Tuesday from Barcelona, Spain, to Duesseldorf, Germany, before crashing, killing all 150 on board.

French officials said terrorism appeared unlikely, and Germany's top security official said Wednesday there was no evidence of foul play. French investigators were opening the jet's mangled black box they recovered, hoping the cockpit recordings inside would help them unlock the mystery of what caused the crash.

[Hervé]

Delta pilot locked out of cockpit during landing

http://www.boston.com/travel/2015/01...sdP/story.html

A statement from Atlanta-based Delta (NYSE: DAL) says the captain was not able to enter the flight deck during a Thursday flight due to a safety door jam, reports Minnesota's WCCO-TV.

Air India pilot locked out of cockpit after toilet break

Pilot locked out of cockpit while co-pilot slept

[DaRkViPeR]

My opinion is that the co-pilot was under heavy mind control. According to his friends and co-workers he was a cheerful guy and happy with his job.
Based on those facts I rule out suicide and blame it on possible mind control.
According to the authorities they are going to do a deep investigation on his life,family,friends and religion.
I bet that somewhere along the line they will find something that will connect him to suicide or terrorism.
It will just be another false flag event to cover up the motives of TPTB.

[Hervé]

There is also another avenue to consider and that is: Pilots medications

You know, keeping awake, getting some sleep... which means an endless series of stimulants and sedatives...

I was made aware of that from someone on this forum who forwarded that such drugs also get to affect someone's mental health or normal functioning with dire side effects.

[outerheaven]

I find it interesting that the released picture of the co-pilot has him with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background.

Consider the symbolism here. The Golden Gate Bridge is the most popular suicide site in the USA and apparently the second-most popular suicide site in the world.

What a coincidence!

IMO this story is loaded with symbolism and who knows, maybe even some predictive programming as well. Not trying to be an alarmist, but the inclusion of the Golden Gate Bridge is slightly chilly to me.