Germanwings flight 4U9525 crash in Southern France

[Sophocles]

Here is one article saying two people from Iran attended the flight (Last Updated: Mar 26, 2015 3:57 AM ET):

Germanwings CEO Thomas Winkelmann said the airline was in the process of contacting victims' families. He said the 144 passengers and six crew members included 72 Germans, 35 Spaniards, three Americans and two people each from Australia, Argentina, Iran, Venezuela, and one person each from Britain, the Netherlands, Colombia, Mexico, Japan, Denmark, Belgium and Israel...Some of the victims may have had dual nationalities; Spain's government said 51 citizens had died in the crash.

Link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/germanw...orts-1.3008432

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Police: Item of 'Significance' Found at Apartment of Germanwings Co-Pilot

GRN’s Alan Hall reported on tonight’s “On The Record” that police searched Lubitz’s apartment and found something of “significance,” but they would not say what it is. Authorities say it is not a suicide note.

Link: http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/03/2...wings-co-pilot

[panopticon]

Reports co-pilot suffered from depression six years ago as police search homes; pilot bashed cockpit door with axe
27th March 2015



The co-pilot who is believed to have deliberately crashed a Germanwings plane into the French Alps received psychiatric treatment for a "serious depressive episode" six years ago, German tabloid newspaper Bild is reporting.

One hundred and fifty people, including a Victorian woman and her adult son, died when the plane slammed into the mountainside on Tuesday.

A French prosecutor said the plane's co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz, 28, deliberately crashed the Airbus A320, with the senior pilot locked out of the cockpit.

After listening to the cockpit voice recorders, prosecutors in France offered no motive for why Lubitz would take the controls of the plane, lock the captain out and deliberately set it to veer down from its cruising altitude at a rate of 3,000 feet per minute.

Citing internal documents and Lufthansa sources, Bild said Lubitz spent a total of one-and-a-half years in psychiatric treatment and that the relevant documents would be passed to French investigators once they had been examined by German authorities.

The chief of Lufthansa, which runs the low-cost Germanwings airline, Carsten Spohr told a news conference on Thursday that Lubitz had taken a break during his training six years ago, but did not explain why.

He said Lubitz passed all tests to be fit to fly.

"Six years ago there was a lengthy interruption in his training," Mr Spohr said.

"After he was cleared again, he resumed training.

"He passed all the subsequent tests and checks with flying colours. His flying abilities were flawless."

A Lufthansa spokeswoman said on Friday the airline would not comment on the state of health of the pilot.

Evidence seized from Lubitz's homes but 'no smoking gun'

The reports come as German police seized possessions, including a computer, from Lubitz's homes.

Officers combing through a flat kept by Lubitz in the western city of Dusseldorf said they had seized "various items and papers", police spokesman Marcel Fiebig said.

"We will see whether this will explain what happened - everything is being examined," he said, adding that there was no "smoking gun" to shed light on a possible motive.

Lubitz spent most of his time at his parents' home in the small western town of Montabaur.

That upscale residence was also cordoned off by police and searched.

Men wearing gloves came out carrying briefcases, bags and boxes, an AFP journalist reported.

The city's public prosecutor said in a written statement that searches in Duesseldorf and other places were aimed at "the discovery and securing of personal documents" to help clarify the situation.

Captain used axe in attempt to bash down door: report

The Bild newspaper also reported the captain who was locked out of the cockpit used an axe to try and force his way back in, citing security sources.

The cockpit flight recorder showed the captain repeatedly knocked and tried to get back in as the plane went into its fatal descent, French prosecutors said.

However, Bild reported that the captain also tried using an axe to break down the cockpit's armoured door.

This could not be immediately confirmed, but a spokesman for Germanwings confirmed to news agency AFP that an axe was on board the aircraft.

Such a tool is "part of the safety equipment of an A320", a spokesman said.

Federal Government, Qantas considering cockpit safety changes

The Federal Government and Qantas are considering changes to cockpit security following the crash.

Deputy Prime Minister Warren Truss said Australia's aviation agencies were investigating if current cockpit safety requirements needed further strengthening.

"The current regulations do not require airlines to replace a pilot who temporarily leaves the cockpit," he said.

"Careful consideration needs to be made following thorough investigation to ensure that altering current procedures does not open other potential vulnerabilities."

"Our two major international and domestic airlines are undertaking their own safety and security risk assessments of cockpit procedures following the recent tragedy."

A Qantas spokesman said the airline was "monitoring the information coming out of the French investigation" and was considering whether any changes to its existing safeguards were needed.

Strategic Aviation Solutions chairman Neil Hansford told ABC NewsRadio there had been several similar incidents in the past.

"We didn't have these doors on cockpits to keep them sanitary before 9/11 so this is another flow-on effect," he said.

Lufthansa chief sees 'no need' to change cockpit policy

Airlines including Norwegian Air Shuttle, Britain's easyJet, Air Canada, Air New Zealand and Air Berlin all said they had introduced a requirement that two crew members must be in the cockpit at all times.

Regulations in the US already require that no pilot must ever be left alone at the controls and Canada has now followed suit.

Mr Spohr from Lufthansa said he believed such a policy change was unnecessary.

"I don't see any need to change our procedures here," he said.

"It was a one-off case. But we will look at it with the various experts at Lufthansa and the authorities. We shouldn't lose ourselves in short-term measures."

Source

[syrwong]

I saw on TV news an animation (already?) of the pilot leaving the cockpit for the toilet and returning, knocking fiercely and pressed the code to open the door, and the copilot overiding the entry. Then the report that the pilot had been under psychiatric treatment for two years or so and recently his girlfriend left him. Very convincing story with great animation! But I don't believe it.
For one thing, who was the stupid designer for a force entry code to be overidable from inside? For fear of "terorists" knowing the code?

[Aviator]

More and more information about the co-pilots background is coming out now. He received psychiatric treatment in the past and had even a sick note for the day of the crash. It is very likely that he was under the influence of psychiatric drugs, similar to school shooters and other killers.

[Hervé]

Posted by araucaria (here)
I just saw on BFMTV that the copilot was trained at the Lufthansa Flight Training facility in Phoenix Arizona, and that he interrupted his training for several months. They have half a dozen facilities closer to home; interesting that he should go to the US, and interesting that he should go AWOL. What else is there to do in Phoenix Arizona, I wonder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Flight_Training

Posted by panopticon (here)
[...]

The co-pilot who is believed to have deliberately crashed a Germanwings plane into the French Alps received psychiatric treatment for a "serious depressive episode" six years ago, German tabloid newspaper Bild is reporting.

[...]... Bild said Lubitz spent a total of one-and-a-half years in psychiatric treatment and that the relevant documents would be passed to French investigators once they had been examined by German authorities.

The chief of Lufthansa, which runs the low-cost Germanwings airline, Carsten Spohr told a news conference on Thursday that Lubitz had taken a break during his training six years ago, but did not explain why.

[...]

There you go... made in USA MKultra flying bomb/drone/zombie...

From what I read somewhere else, he was admitted in a US psychiatric facility for a couple of weeks. Who knows what he was submitted to during that time? But turning someone into a sleeping time bomb doesn't even take that long.

[panopticon]

Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz recently broke up with girlfriend, hid illness from employers
By Rachelle Blidner, 27th March 2015


Andreas Lubitz, who ran the Airportrace half marathon in Hamburg in 2009, received psychiatric treatment for a "serious depressive episode" six years ago, German newspaper Bild reported.

The Germanwings co-pilot believed to have deliberately crashed Flight 9525 recently broke up with his girlfriend, leaving a man with a history of depression in a fragile emotional state, according to a report.

Andreas Lubitz, 27, had a "serious relationship crisis with his girlfriend," a mystery woman he was reportedly engaged to at one point, German newspaper Bild reported Friday.

Lubitz had a history of health issues, which he hid from his employers and colleagues, German prosecutor Ralf Herrenbrueck said Friday after seizing documents from Lubitz's Dusseldorf apartment.

Investigators found torn-up doctor's notes to excuse Lubitz for work Tuesday, the day he drove the Dusseldorf-bound plane into the French Alps and killed 149 people, Herrenbrueck said.

Herrenbrueck did not say what illness Lubitz had, although doctor's notes for even minor ailments are common in Germany, according to the Associated Press.

German law requires people to inform their employers if they cannot work, Reuters reported.

Other medical documents obtained indicated Lubitz had "an existing illness and appropriate medical treatment," Herrenbrueck said.

Investigators did not find a suicide note or evidence of political or religious motivations, he said.

In 2009, Lubitz underwent psychiatric treatment for 18 months for a "serious depressive episode" — around the same time he took six months off from flight training, Bild reported.

Lubitz was deemed "not suitable for flying" by the Phoenix, Ariz., flight school operated by Germanwings' parent company Lufthansa, according to documents obtained by the paper. His depression forced him to retake flying classes and get "special regular medical examinations."

Former classmates said he took time off for "burnout syndrome" or depression, according to Der Spiegel.

Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr told reporters Thursday that Lubitz took leave in 2009 but declined to explain why. He did not mention any medical or psychological issues, and company representatives declined to comment on the medical notes revealed Friday.

After Lubitz was allowed to begin training again, he was "100 percent fit to fly," passing all medical and flight exams "with flying colors," Spohr said.

But the co-pilot had a medical condition listed on his pilot's medical certificate, a spokesman for Germany's Federal Aviation Office told the Wall Street Journal.

Spokesman Holger Kasperski declined to say whether the confidential condition referred to Lubitz's mental or physical well-being.

Lubitz's last pilot's license medical exam was in July 2014, Kasperski said.

He received physical examinations annually but was not required to undergo psychological evaluation, Spohr said.

Lubitz was a patient at Dusseldorf University Hospital for the past two months, the hospital said in a statement. He last came to the hospital for a "diagnostic evaluation" on March 10. The hospital declined to reveal his condition and denied reports it treated him for depression.

German authorities said they will review documents about Lubitz's mental health before handing them over to French investigators, according to Reuters.

"Everything points to this act that we are unable to qualify — criminal, mad, suicidal," French Prime Minister Manuel Valls told iTele. "How can one imagine that a pilot in whom one has full confidence — they are heroes for many people ... could precipitate the plane into the mountain, after closing the door to stop the pilot from entering the cabin?"

The co-pilot's friends and neighbors said they were shocked by investigators' allegations — Lubitz was a quiet, normal guy who loved to fly.

The same year Lubitz took a gap in training, the competitive runner raced in a half marathon in Hamburg, Germany.

Source

[panopticon]

The following article is basically a rehash of stuff already covered other than the reference to the wedding being called off causing him trouble and a bit more on the medical certificate. There's only so many ways to say the same thing.

Notice the carefully crafted headline and tactful writing from the hacks at The Australia...

###

Mass-murder co-pilot ‘had extended history of mental illness’
The Australian, March 28, 2015

Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz had such an extended history of known mental illness that he had to undergo regular special medical checks and was recently separated from his fiancee — all vital clues to the criminal inves­t­­­igation that is under way in the mass murder of all 150 passengers and crew onboard Flight 9525.

Last night prosecutors said that Lubitz appears to have hidden evidence of an illness from his employers, including having been excused by a doctor from work the day he crashed the Airbus A320 into the French Alps.

The medical certificates came from a search of Lubitz’s homes in two German cities for an explan­ation of why he crashed the plane into a mountain.

Prosecutor’s spokesman Ralf Herrenbrueck said that torn-up sick notes for the day of the crash “support the current preliminary assessment that the deceased hid his illness from his employer and colleagues”.

Mr Herrenbrueck said other medical documents found indicated “an existing illness and approp­riate medical treatment”, but that no suicide note was found.

He added there was no indic­ation of any political or religious motivation for Lubitz’s actions.

The focus has also shifted to the parent company, Lufthansa, and how 27-year-old Lubitz had continued his employment with such a troubled medical background.

Most recently, he was dealing with his girlfriend cancelling their wedding planned for next year.

Lufthansa chief executive Carsten Spohr, who said the crash was “the darkest day for Lufthansa in its 60-year history”, confirmed that Lubitz had a break in his pilot training and he had to resit his exams to qualify back in 2008.

However, his medical records, as seen by the German newspaper Bild, indicate longstanding and ongoing psychiatric issues.

Lubitz’s medical records show his training at the Lufthansa Flight School in Arizona was inter­rupted for several months in 2009 because of mental illness, with severe depression and anx­iety.

Lubitz had 18 months of psychiatric treatment and, even though he passed the pilot exams, he struggled to advance to higher levels in the training because of depress­ion. One notation even states he was “no-fly’’ for a period.

In the company records at the German aviation authority Luftfahrt Bundesamt, Lubitz’s psychological problems were identified and his records marked with the code “SIC” (specific regularly occurring medical examinations, which must be performed by a doctor).

Germanwings, however, insisted that the incident was a “tragic individual case’’ and expressed complete confidence in its pilots. “We would have never imagined that such a tragedy could happen in our company,” a statement from the company said.

Both Germanwings and Luft­hansa will now face unlimited-liability claims from hundreds of people, which will test their economic robustness.

Public confidence in pilots has taken a severe blow, and several low-cost European airlines have immediately added a second pilot to the flight deck to try to reassure passengers.

A search of Lubitz’s Dusseldorf flat, which he had previously shared with his girlfriend, uncovered an item police say “may be a significant clue to what happened’’. Markus Niesczery from Dusseldorf police said the item, which he would not detail, would be taken for testing. Police remove­d a computer hard drive as well as several boxes from the flat.

“We cannot say what it is at the moment but it may be a very significant clue to what has happened. We hope it may give some explanations,” Mr Niesczery said.

Marseilles prosecutor Brice Robin gave grieving family members a detailed briefing of Lubitz’s actions and said that they were shocked by the revelations. Mr Brice said the families quizzed him for more than 90 minutes, trying to understand the motivation behind how their loved ones died.

“It makes us furious, it makes us sad, it leaves us stunned,” said school official Ulrich Wessel from the Joseph-Koenig school in Haltern, which lost 16 pupils and two teachers in the disaster.

Source

[Hervé]

Let's see what the next step is gonna be... psychiatric assessments starting at kindergarten?

[panopticon]

Posted by Hervé (here)
Let's see what the next step is gonna be... psychiatric assessments starting at kindergarten?

I agree.

False Flag or not this will be taken advantage of.

To what ends only hindsight will show.

-- Pan

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
one question, if he was crashing the plane, why did he set off the signal...

What signal?

Airbus A320 France plane crash: Germanwings 4U9525 sent 'distress signal' before Alps crash...

"Passenger airliner Airbus A320 sent a 'distress signal' before plunging into the French Alps, according to reports.

French President Francois Hollande has confirmed no survivors are expected after the aeroplane with 150 people on board crashed.

According to Flightradar24, which keeps track of aircraft across the world, the Airbus was descending with a rate of about 3,000-4,000ft per minute.

The tracking agency also added the flight climbed to 38,000ft before it started to descend and lose signal at about 6,800ft.

French aviation authorities confirmed they detecting a emergency signal from the plane 46 minutes after its take-off from Barcelona. The wreckage of the flight has already been spotted.

According to the French Civil Aviation Authority (DGAE) there had been what is known as a distress FA, which happens when a plane disappears from radars, or blacks out and all communications are cut with the cockpit." link

it wasn't sent by the pilots...

that is the moment autopilot should have kicked in...

autopilot should have calculated tragectory and the crash ahead and notified air authorities then switched over to full control...

make them un hijackable

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
According to the French Civil Aviation Authority (DGAE) there had been what is known as a distress FA, which happens when a plane disappears from radars, or blacks out and all communications are cut with the cockpit." link

it wasn't sent by the pilots...

Yeah - that's my reading too - the "plane" sent the (alleged) signal, not the pilot(s).

[pabranno]

I just read on Houston Local News they found a letter in conveniently and conspicuously in the waste basket stating that he had been declared unfit for work.

[greybeard]

Torn-up sick notes show crash pilot should have been grounded
There is a very full report on the link.
Chris

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/german-pil...r.html#Q1G3fZ2

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Hervé (here)
Let's see what the next step is gonna be... psychiatric assessments starting at kindergarten?

Interesting how they just simple belch out, "pilot was a nut job job" and most everyone's attention focuses on this aspect of this tragedy.....interesting how easily the masses are steered to a certain focal point (while the cleaner cleans up loose ends). Well, regardless, they basically blamed the pilot for MH370 too. It worked that time so it'll likely work this time too.

And by the way, since when do they allow an axe to be on a plane in the passenger compartment? Reckon it adds a little spice to the narrative!

It could be just as they say it is, just a nut job on a death mission, but perhaps there is more to it....and if there is more to it, someone went through great lengths to make sure this plane, a certain person(s) on it, or a certain object in the cargo bay did not make it to it's planned destination point.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

you guys might want to see what another manufacturer has tried to blame on pilot error!
good catch SilentFeathers, was just now having the same thought, "Gee how convenient to have this young pilot possibly in the database flagged as schizophrenic"

the AF doesn't seem to care about it, why should the airlines lmao. anyhow that's not fair. the point is people get a chance up to the point they err.

________________________

http://www.seattletimes.com/business...-software-too/

Boeing blames pilots for Asiana 777 crash; airline faults software, too
Originally published April 1, 2014 at 10:54 am Updated April 2, 2014 at 6:19 am
By Dominic Gates
Array
Boeing on Monday firmly blamed the pilots for last year’s crash of an Asiana Airlines 777 in San Francisco, telling the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) that the crash “would have been avoided had the flight crew followed procedures.”

“This accident occurred due to the flight crew’s failure to monitor and control airspeed, thrust level and glide path,” Boeing said in a document submitted for the agency’s investigation of last July’s crash in which three passengers died.

Asiana partly agreed with Boeing in its own submission to the NTSB, but it also found fault with the design of the jet’s automated flight controls.

The South Korean carrier wrote that “the probable cause of this accident was the flight crew’s failure to monitor and maintain a minimum safe airspeed during a final approach.”

seems like there's a software problem as ALWAYS..
and also Boeing is among those companies pushing HARD for automated flight (pilotless planes)

http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/a...cial-airliners

When Will We Have Unmanned Commercial Airliners?

Unmanned planes dominate the battlefield, yet airliners still have pilots—and copilots

By Philip E. Ross
Posted 29 Nov 2011 | 15:32 GMT




In the sphere of commercial flight, too, automation has thinned the cockpit crew from five to just the pilot and copilot, whose jobs it has greatly simplified. Do we even need those two? Many aviation experts think not.

"A pilotless airliner is going to come; it's just a question of when," said James Albaugh, the president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airlines, in a talk he gave in August at the AIAA Modeling and Simulation Technologies Conference, in Portland, Ore. "You'll see it in freighters first, over water probably, landing very close to the shore."

Later, when air-traffic control systems rise to the challenge, pilotless planes will carry stuff to your very doorstep. In the fullness of time, they'll carry you.

more danger not less

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...echnology.html

Is autopilot making flight travel MORE dangerous? FAA claims two thirds of pilots make mistakes because of their reliance on technology
A draft report claims pilots are relying too much on automated systems
As a result, they lack knowledge and skills to control plane's trajectory
Typical mistakes include not recognising that the autopilot is disconnected
Others include failure to take the proper steps to recover from a stall in flight
By ELLIE ZOLFAGHARIFARD

PUBLISHED: 09:31 EST, 18 November 2013 | UPDATED: 09:34 EST, 18 November 2013

the machine takeover by corporatocracy
multinational corporate destruction

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42183592/n...y-lose-robots/


pharmacist
lawyer
driver
astronaut
store clerk
soldier
babysitter
rescuer
writer

[Harley]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Interesting how they just simple belch out, "pilot was a nut job job" and most everyone's attention focuses on this aspect of this tragedy.....interesting how easily the masses are steered to a certain focal point (while the cleaner cleans up loose ends). Well, regardless, they basically blamed the pilot for MH370 too. It worked that time so it'll likely work this time too.

Exactly. Once they make up their minds what they want to use as the CAUSE, and then they get the media focused on it, there ain't no stopping the EFFECT.

The mentally ill (in one form or another) card is probably the easiest to use even when it's untrue, and especially so when the subject is no longer here to defend their self.

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
It could be just as they say it is, just a nut job on a death mission, but perhaps there is more to it....and if there is more to it, someone went through great lengths to make sure this plane, a certain person(s) on it, or a certain object in the cargo bay did not make it to it's planned destination point.

And I'll add one more:

A warning or some very serious saber rattling, used by 'one side' to persuade 'another side' to do or not to do something. And if the 'other side' tells anyone who did it things can get a whole lot worse.

This sort of thing goes on all the time between governments and nations, though seldom to this extent and visibility.

[Carmody]

well, Saudi Arabia is in Yemen right now.

Total distraction from that all important point, in the west, might be a 'two-fer'.

[Harley]

I gotta say, on the world view, things are really escalating now and not looking good.

And we're only three months in to 2015.

[gripreaper]

The "ole lone nut job" explanation has been working for decades, and the masses buy into it. The guy who killed Kennedy was a lone nut job, and the pilots who flew into the World Trade Center were lone nut jobs, and the guy who killed John Lennon was a lone nut job, and the pilot who took down MH370 was a lone nut job, and the guy who shot up Newtown was a lone nut job, and the guy who blew up the Boston Marathon was a lone nut job, ...and...and...and...

What is obvious to me is that the debris fragments are extremely small, the largest piece being the size of a small car. Now go look at other airline crash debris photo's and get back to me.

It's like when you go to the doctors and they can't explain what is ailing you so they say: "It's genetic". That's the catch all basket where all stuff medical goes, and then they add "BUT we are working on a cure and are in clinical trial to find a drug" blah...blah...blah...

Everyone get back to work, there's nothing to see here. Let the experts figure it out and we'll get back to ya, TRUST US !!!

I'm really getting sick of the BS news, you know, the banker who committed suicide by taking a nail gun and pumping 8 nails into his scull and torso? How friggin gullible are we? NO WAY could you take the second trigger of the nail gun, no way.

[araucaria]

Cidersomerset posted an interesting article on Greybeard’s thread about how the Sharon Tate murders ending the dangerous sixties was just a bunch of Hollywood actors filming a movie. My reaction is here:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post947051

If we do apply this template to this air crash, we see a rationale for the tiny fragments in a remote location with almost no eye-witnesses – one of the handful of witnesses appeared on TV from the chest down only. With fragmentary body parts, DNA identification would be easily faked: you could more or less match anything with anyone. But the trouble with this idea is of course always at the point where you have multiple victims each with multiple surviving family members. I confess I personally don’t understand how the interfacing is done on this level. The only example of how a plot involving large numbers of innocent outsiders is a piece of fiction: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post777383

All of these tragedies are an attack on one aspect of the human mind: sympathy. Sympathy is Greek for compassion and compassion is Latin for ‘suffering with’. In the physical realm, we can take someone in our arms and literally share their space as we suffer together. Nowadays we are constantly being invited to act likewise in the case of events allegedly taking place beyond our personal event horizon, and the moment we stop to think, we are accused of being callous towards the victims. But this kind of sympathy urbi et orbi has left the physical realm: it is purely metaphysical, and the relationship between the two realms has been turned on its head.

I have sympathy with all of humanity, which from my viewpoint is based on my very restricted circle of people I may interact with. This circle can of course grow, as it only involves a limited sample of human beings. But the direction of growth, from the known to the unknown, means that I can build up a solid picture. However, what we are increasingly being confronted with is the exact opposite: we are being offered a top down view of humanity – whatever ‘people’ ‘they’ wish to show us, and together these metaphysical entities take on a life of their own that is completely disconnected from the normal way in which we know from personal experience that human beings operate. If we buy into the idea that a suicidal pilot capable of killing 150 people is simply a variation on normal human behaviour from one with mental health issues, then that is eventually going to destabilize our own personal experience of what is normal, and we all end up going crazy – crazy with fear; which is what fear-mongering is all about.

Hence the actual manner in which the above is achieved is immaterial. The How really doesn’t matter – here we find yesterday’s cockpit security measures are killers and tomorrow’s will be no safer. That in itself is just another diversion. The response that is really verboten as the ultimate in callousness is to react as if nothing had happened at all. This is like accusing a doctor performing emergency surgery of callously treating the patient like a piece of meat; the emotional response is simply inappropriate. This situation is more like quietly moving on when a salesman tries to sell you something you don’t want.

This microcosmic representation of the macrocosm is perfectly clear. Yes, we all identify with artists and children on a low-cost flight to somewhere nice. No, we do not accept the Pied Piper of Hamelin scenario of a murderous monster leading us all into the side of a mountain. We are simply not interested; go away. (No wonder there is so much focus onthe cockpit door connecting/separating the two.)

I have made quite a few posts on this subject; the following are just a sample.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post921607
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post944475
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post554281