Time is NOT an Illusion

[Omni]

I have seen countless people state "Time is an illusion". I wholeheartedly disagree. If you think time is an illusion, please engage me in respectful debate.

To this date nobody arguing time is an illusion has been able to present their point of view with rational thought/reason/logic(to me). I have never seen an argument that time is an illusion that holds any credibility or weight and it dumbfounds me to see so many people stating time is an illusion(of course without any reasoning to back it up). It's always just the potent NLP of "time is an illusion" without any advanced reasoning. I would love any debate with those who think time is an illusion. However I think that will not happen in a very in depth manner. I don't think the 'time is an illusion' idea holding people can rationally argue their side to be quite honest... Time being an illusion is without any rational thought or true understanding what time really is IMO. Please do prove me wrong if you disagree And please do read this whole article before engaging in debate if you plan to....

Full Article:

Time is Not an Illusion

This one's a doozy. I know when I disagree with even Einstein about a subject I am in a vast minority.

Time is not an illusion, and I will explain my perspective in this blog post. Figuring out the true illusions is one of the harder tasks to undertake on planet earth. I have found the term illusion misused on wide occasion. It is a potent word I'm sure the shadow governments prefer being used erroneously, as many people do(even very intelligent people).

I have heard a lot of people state they experienced places without time. This just shows they do not understand what time actually is. Anything with a past, present, and future involves time. For example one person I was debating with stated when we dream time is not present. His argument was that we have no perception of past present and future in a dream(which is arguable in itself, as I have detected the future of my dreams before). He seemed to be saying what the senses perceive dictates if there is time or not. Such is a fallacy. The senses can be barraged with illusions... In a dream there is time, even if our senses of it are not the same. Just because we have no perception of past, present, and future in any state, doesn't mean that such does not exist for us...

Without time pretty much nothing is possible in my view. Time in my view is the true 4th dimension of reality. Take away the construct of time and nothing can happen. There can be no unique segments of happenings without time.

Einstein said this:

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." - Albert Einstein

For anything to happen at all, time has to be present. So everything happening at once would also include time. And it's reason is better summed up by existence, and what is necessary for existence. So existence itself is the reason for time in my view...

Time is one of the essential ingredients of existence. If you think otherwise please comment and tell me how something can transpire without time. It simply cannot happen. Motion, thoughts, experiences, and existence itself are not possible without the construct of time. Has anyone truly ascended out of time like many channeling sources claim? Short answer, No. Nobody escapes the construct of past, present, and future in any form in the universe in my view(minus a scenario like having one's soul destroyed, which I am not sure is possible).

Even if everything is all happening at once or is all planned and already happened(which I do not personally subscribe to), and having the ability to travel through time to any point, the core element of time still exists for you. One has a past, a present, and a future while traversing through time in that scenario. One has a perception of a sequence of events, the fabric making multiple events possible at all is time. Time may have some illusory qualities, just like quantum physics. However it truly does indeed exist, bar none in my view. Anything stating otherwise is misinformation or worse in my view.

When someone says time is a manmade concept this just shows they do not understand what time really is. The mapping of time, such as seconds, minutes, hours, day, weeks, months, and years is arguably manmade. I personally think extraterrestrials were behind some things like our measuring of time. So maybe even that wasn't manmade.

What I relate to a truly timeless experience is being completely asleep or fully blacked out. That is a timeless experience, a truly timeless experience is an unconscious experience for consciousness is not possible without time. Some may argue that consciousness is possible without time, and I would love to debate that. I don't think that perspective is thinking things through, or has an understanding of what time really is. Consciousness by it's very nature involves various different thoughts. Without time different thoughts are not possible. Time is what makes a sequence of events possible. A sequence of events is not possible without time. A timeless existence is non-existence in my view...

Time is relative to perception. One's perception/experience of time can change, while the hardcoded-into-the-universe time itself does not change. Time may even have open source qualities such as time travel into the past or future(I do not think such is the case but I could be wrong). Time travel does not make time an illusion. To be able to experience another time, time has to be existent in the form of a personal past, present, and future, even if the 'timeline' of the universe can be traversed, making the future an illusion that it is truly the future(not time itself). Everyone has a personal set of time in that case, not that it's an illusion.

Anyone who says time is an illusion does not understand what time really is. That is the truth in my opinion. If you disagree please engage me in debate, I love debating stuff like this. Every time I've gotten into a debate about time with someone, the ones saying time is an illusion do not use logic in their points, and cannot debate my reasoning at all. To be quite frank, I think they were just mesmerized by the potent NLP in the phrase "Time is an Illusion". It's a catchy phrase that is loaded with NLP potency. However it is misinfo or worse to say time is an illusion in my opinion. And I see countless people fooled by this idea. Many of them are even intelligent individuals who otherwise mostly think things through.

If you think time is an illusion(AKA not real), how do you explain a very real past, present, and future that binds all beings? If you think time is truly an illusion, then what exactly makes a sequence of events possible? Why is it we are always in a present moment, with a future and a past, if time does not exist? Anyone?

Source Link: http://omnisense.blogspot.com/2015/0...-illusion.html

[Wookie]

Perception like belief and truth are relative. It is possible that I perceive reality in a much different way. Limiting oneself to the construct we have been taught to believe in does not make it real. The cage we have locked ourselves in is strong and full of "truths" like time and math. To trust in our perception to be the only "truth" because it is the one we believe in is what makes our cage strong. Let go of ones pride and know that we know nothing. IMO perception can be altered in many ways, even in a way that might not include time in its "truths".

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

[Omni]

Posted by Wookie (here)
Perception like belief and truth are relative. It is possible that I perceive reality in a much different way. Limiting oneself to the construct we have been taught to believe in does not make it real. The cage we have locked ourselves in is strong and full of "truths" like time and math. To trust in our perception to be the only "truth" because it is the one we believe in is what makes our cage strong. Let go of ones pride and know that we know nothing.

I personally think knowledge is possible. I know more than nothing. If anything I know myself. Perception of the truth can wildly sway from objective reality, however knowing one's self is more sturdy I think.

I do not think the truth is relative. Perception of the truth is what's relative IMO. In my view there is an objective reality, that is simply what is objectively truly happening or what truly exists. As Mark Passio states, the truth is simply what is. And it is obtainable IMHO.

I agree that perception and beliefs trap many people in 'cages'. However I think it's a cage in itself to think the truth is unobtainable, and one knows nothing.

IMO perception can be altered in many ways, even in a way that might not include time in its "truths".

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

How can a perception perceive anything without a sequence of time allowing thought? Time is the fabric that makes sequences of events possible. Perception is fully dependent on time to be existent IMO.

[Wookie]

Have you ever known something only later to find out you were wrong, I have. To perceive without the need of measurement does not need time so would time be included in that perception? I agree that knowledge and truth are obtainable, but at a personal or group level. For example one persons terrorist is another persons hero. One persons illegal drug is another persons best friend. Both are known and both are true yet completely at odds with each other. Because I have not seen proof that humanities Truths, like time, are not universal does not limit the possibility that somewhere somehow there is no "time". The tools we use to explain our reality could be out dated, see what I did there

[Omni]

Posted by Wookie (here)
Have you ever known something only later to find out you were wrong, I have.

Many times. I reassess my beliefs every time they are challenged. I'm not sure anyone could get everything right based on intuition or knee jerk assessments. I am in constant re-evaluation of my beliefs minus the ones that I know for sure are true. Even the ones I know are true I re-evaluate momentarily when challenged.

To perceive without the need of measurement does not need time so would time be included in that perception?

You don't need to measure time for it to be there. I have not paid much attention to time for years, only when I have to really. Time is what makes a sequence of events possible. For a perception to explore anything it takes a sequence of events(or sequence of thoughts).

I agree that knowledge and truth are obtainable, but at a personal or group level. For example one persons terrorist is another persons hero. One persons illegal drug is another persons best friend. Both are known and both are true yet completely at odds with each other. Because I have not seen proof that humanities Truths, like time, are not universal does not limit the possibility that somewhere somehow there is no "time". The tools we use to explain our reality could be out dated, see what I did there

Some things are fully subjective, so a truth is not exactly existent for such things. What I mean by objective reality is for example when you are feeling something, there is a certain amount of energy in your mind. That energy can be measured by advanced technology and it indeed exists. That energy exists objectively. Or another example, say someone gets thrown in prison for growing weed. The subjective part of that is opinions about if its ok to grow weed or not. The objective part was they grew weed and are in prison now.

Thanks for the posts wookie

[Agape]

Time is a spin , simple as that . From the minutest quanta of energy to the macrocosm of events , everything is constantly in motion .

Solidity IS an illusion .

We call 'solid' whatever corresponds to OURS quantum state of matter , it yet does not mean to say there are not even more 'solid' realities in the Universe ,
however ..every single of them is an expression of time-space .

In past, I think , simple people were fascinated with the idea of 'time' , as in watch , and that everything moves according to some regular order .
So they abstracted 'time' as if it was some sort of independent entity .

In reality it isn't . It's time-space , and there are many variations , alterations and generally many time-spaces ( or space-times ) whose qualities all evolve in synchronicity with other systems ,
in reality they are 'Time-Space Fields' .. within them there are swirls and focal points that give birth to Stars etc etc ,
all kinds of loops , waves and ripples .

But this is what you get commonly through out the Universe , large time-space fields of certain quality within whom galaxies are formed . Time is a spin ..

if you look to single photon , one sparkle of energy .. the way it moves is determined by the overall quality of its time-space field .
Whilst large number of such photons move chaotically , there are sub-fields of them forced to follow the higher organisation, structure of matter where they are trapped ..

so they don't have much choice .

bearhug

[araucaria]

Time is a dimension: you can operate outside of time just as you can operate outside of a spatial dimension. The conflict between the ‘cabal’ and the ‘alternative community’ can be seen in terms of our number of dimensions, which the former seek to reduce and the latter to increase.

We have three dimensions of space, but on the surface of this planet we are mostly restricted to two. Extending upward includes such things as spacefaring, UFOs, alien encounters, life after death, and much closer to home, air travel. Extending downward leads to the exploration of hollow earth theory, underground cities and the like. All these things are frowned upon, including everyday air travel, with a spate of plane accidents and demented pilots to put us off. Pollution means we can’t see the stars (the night sky has come under U.N. protection!), and chemtrails mean we can’t even see the sun and blue sky. And secret programs generally seek to blot out this third dimension of space.

If you also remove the second dimension of space, you end up with a labyrinth. A classical labyrinth was one-dimensional space with two directions: in or out (you couldn’t get lost). A modern maze is a prison because although there is no door, you are stuck in one dimension although now with plenty of side tracks and dead ends to make you lose your bearings. The inventor of the labyrinth, Daedalus, escaped from his prison on the island of Crete by regaining the second dimension through mastering the third: he built himself wings and was able to fly back to the mainland. His son Icarus had a vector issue, underestimating the second dimension and overindulging in the third: he came too close to the sun and fell out of the sky when the wax in his wings melted.

So we understand how ‘time is an illusion’ becomes a weapon against our freedom. Or if it is not seen that way, one-dimensional time is not so much a total illusion as an apparent prison (without a door). Escaping from this prison will likely involve the mastery of something like a three-dimensional time such as ‘timespace’.

See this discussion: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post833867
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post833664

Edit: Symptoms of 1D time: forward (the day-to-day grind), backwards (history, archaeology), leading to sameness of the two: the time loop (repetitive destruction of civilizations).

[Agape]

In abstracts , you can operate deliberately just with any term you choose , any unknown , any constant .

The theories on Time are old , not older than Time itself i guess ..

yes even the Universe has its own time .. can we even imagine , stretch our mind that much to infinity ..

and then , you speak of timelessness and quantum leap .

Patterns like theories come and ago. It's referred to as the 'primordial illusion' , something you can't really 'undo' no matter what you try .



Time is painless ... what does pain is when living beings , especially , try to 'fix' the time , adjust its flow for they have to ..

it's our 'living time' vs 'their universal time' ,

we reflect fraction of the fragment of the silver weaving , called Life of everything that IS.

[Agape]

You may want to read this book to your children one day ... it has lots in it to tell ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momo_(novel))

Momo, also known as The Grey Gentlemen or The Men in Grey, is a fantasy novel by Michael Ende, published in 1973. It is about the concept of time and how it is used by humans in modern societies. The full title in German (Momo oder Die seltsame Geschichte von den Zeit-Dieben und von dem Kind, das den Menschen die gestohlene Zeit zurückbrachte) translates to Momo, or the strange story of the time-thieves and the child who brought the stolen time back to the people. The book won the Deutscher Jugendliteraturpreis in 1974.


It certainly played a role in my early development



Quotes from the book ... http://www.generationterrorists.com/quotes/momo.html

All dwelling in one house are strange brothers three,
as unlike as any three brothers could be,
yet try as you may to tell brother from brother,
you'll find that the trio resemble each other.
The first isn't there, though he'll come beyond doubt.
The second's departed, so he's not about.
The third and the smallest is right on the spot,
And manage without him the others could not.
Yet the third factor with which to be reckoned
Because the first brother turns into the second.
You cannot stand back and observe number three,
For one of the others is all you will see.
So tell me, my child, are the three of them one?
Or are there but two? Or could there be none?
Just name them, and you will at once realize
That each rules a kingdom of infinite size.
They rule it together and are it as well.
In that, they're alike, so where do they dwell?

"Just as people have eyes to see light with and ears to hear sounds with, so they have hearts for the appreciation of time. And all the time they fail to appreciate is as wasted on them as colours of the rainbow are wasted on a blind person or the nightingale's song in a deaf one. Some hearts are unappreciative of time, I fear, though they beat like all the rest."

"What [Momo has] just seen and heard wasn't everyone's time," the professor replied, "it was just [her] own. There's a place like the one [she] visited in every living soul, but only those who let me take them there can reach it, nor can it be seen with ordinary eyes."
"So where was [she]?"

"In the depths of [her] own heart."

[Slorri]

Has anyone truly ascended out of time like many channeling sources claim? Short answer, No.

Equally short answer: Yes.

We can easily do this through Remote Viewing / Clairvoyance. If we do, we realize that the past and the future is always there. Everything is indeed happening at once, but it is experienced sequentially; And that is the very illusion of time.

[Johnny]

Time IS an illusion

IMO.

There was a time before time, that time is not called 'no time' but timelessness, and timelessness has no start and no stop, but is in a way the playground for time.

We can say: "There is no time for ...... (whatever) now", but it is not the same as timelessness. Time would not exist without timelessness.

I really don't know where to start but I will give it a try :whew:

Let us me try to define culture. Culture is the way we use time. E.g. people in the mountains do not live (use their time) in the same way as people at the oceans. People in huge cities do not live (use their time) in the same way as people in small towns. Etc. etc.

National borders are derived by history (time), but is an illusion (to nature, also). National borders is only ideas made so the so called authorities know who they can collect tax from. I do not think that shadow governments will have we become really aware of this.

There was a time were the communism was a great idea in this world. Ideas brings me to the branching, where we can say: " Use the time and/or be used by the time".

The idea of the communism is not so great anymore, because there are not so many that gives it energy (awareness). That is how we can stop the time for communism, but the idea will always remain. ( I've never even been a Communist myself).


So, if you continue yourself with a lots of examples, you will properly reach a point, where you will say something like "Stop the world, I want to get off". That is where you can go into the timelessness and from that point rearrange your world (reality). And you do not really 'go into' timelessness, because it is not a place, it has never left you, but if you never has experienced it, you will not know it, and here is a weird thing, there are no really words for it, so you can have done it countless of times, whiteout knowing it.

From the 'point' of timelessness, you can visit all kinds of time/s sometimes also called dimensions

There is (can be) a time for everything

Space time IMO: Space is infinite, and in the infinite we can not measure anything, but when we add the concept time, we can start a new universe

Thank you for the thread Omniverse.

Here is a good one with Alan Watts:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Af85afJIeBo

[Baby Steps]

Thanks, Omni,
Do you know if time runs faster in higher dimensions?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mRKThxVPBvA

[Agape]

Posted by Baby Steps (here)
Do you know if time runs faster in higher dimensions?

Much slower usually which is given by the age/maturity of the particular system where life is allowed to strive .



/yet , also , such systems preserve comparably massive amounts of energy compared to younger star systems, for example .
So by the amount of energy invested to the momentum ..the time factor is quantified , that's to say .. it reaches better equilibrium with space .. and the whole time-space is more lively , more flexible than the one here .


So in that we may also observe how Time has its own Time progress ... in levels ..

[Finefeather]

Time can most certainly be illusive.

To understand this we need to realize/accept that the word 'time' is man made...a unit which we have created to divide our world up for the sake of convenience...it has very little meaning in higher dimensions/worlds, although it does equate to, and is directly related to the overall duration of other events in the cosmos.

We have used this 'time' to measure the duration of various events in our physical reality, and this has resulted in a very positive state, in most cases, where we can perceive the past, present and future...we can say something happened 2 hours or 2 years ago and most of us will know the relativity of the event. However this is not always that helpful because many people cannot even get their heads around 200 years ago, never mind 2000 years ago.

Have you noticed that animals, who have no idea what a watch is, are able to be on 'time'...and very accurately I might add...for events which they consider of some use in their lives? They are driven by cycles.

The Cosmos is a creation which is governed by cycles and the closer we get to the centre...the source...the faster 'time' appears. Everything that starts has a cycle which determines its ending and we need to go no further than to take notice of a common sine-wave...where it begins and rises to it's peak and then dips down to it's supposed ending.
But we know that things cannot just stop in thin air and so most cycles continue for as long as there is energy driving the manifestation.
Of course life is not as simple as a sine-wave and the wave construction of events can be quite complex.

When out of body I can do a number of things with time as we know it...because I am no longer bound to the physical 'time' we have created...
1. I can experience time exactly as we do normally...this lets me know that I am in the etheric realm or world.
2. I can experience time much faster and can do things in a few seconds which would normally take hours in physical time...this tells me I was in the mental world. In the mental world we create with thought and thought is the fastest 'time' we can experience.
3. I can, and have, stopped the second hand of a clock...well it does not really stop but it seems to because I can actually wonder off in my mind and when I return to physical reality the second hand has not even moved one second!

There is no such thing as a manifested future...like some believe...all future is merely a state of probability, and can be changed...so to think that everything exists at the same time is incorrect and frankly quite illogical. If everything that ever will take place already is taking place, then what exactly is the point of life. Life is a consciousness evolutionary process. There are many time-lines but these are simply probabilities which are possible due to effects which have resulted from previous causes. Every cause has an effect and every effect becomes the cause of the next event. The choice which we have in life is choosing the cause which we belief will render the best effect in our lives...we don't always make the right choices so the effects are often disappointment in our lives.

Of course there is what we can call planned future events, like the time the bus arrives and we just have to hope that on that planned day the bus is not involved in an accident...which we did not plan for because we were incapable of seeing the rest of the probabilities for the day

So time can certainly appear to be an illusion, but it depends on our knowledge of cosmic cycles and how duration and our time relate to each other.
There is only one reality...all the 'other' realities which people talk about are the illusions.

The term “We created our own reality” is only true whilst we are still in a less conscious state in our evolution. The purpose of evolution is to expand our consciousness which means that we have more knowledge and experience and wisdom to be able to see the bigger picture.

We are not a super being yet so there are many things which we cannot explain simply because we are very far from higher knowledge.

Those who think they know it all are the most ignorant because the more you know the more you realise how little you know.

Take care
Ray

[Agape]

I don't think we can argue with Ray and other natural philosophers about the metaphysical nature of time and the way we experience it individually
which is yet another level requiring two blueprints of understanding
so it could be successfully compared to the third ..

but what I meant essentially is simple , and space- dependable ..it can bend ..

the trick is that people have the tendency to dissect certain things down to their meanings and they lose what they started with at first place,
that is Time&Space .

Time is NOT your ticking clock and what they probably taught in school physics yet few years ago.
I'm not even sure what they put there now, to be honest .


But time is how fast your planet rotates around its axes and how fast it completes its ecliptics around Sun and also how much mass and energy your Star inherited at start and how fast is it spending it .

To explain it simply , imagine living on merry-go-round . That's where we live , on spinning globe ..
and every form of living perception we have , except our distant memories is subjective to the constant velocity of the system .

Now , you may argue there are some really aged neutrinos that saw the beginning of the Universe passing through us at all times , but .. they're small .. and hard to question ..

[araucaria]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
We are not a super being yet so there are many things which we cannot explain simply because we are very far from higher knowledge.

Yet, the time limitation; far, the spatial limitation, two forms of separation contained in the connectedness of the here and now, two notions describing the one and only paradoxical thing. Another time-based exploration of timelessness is music. You can hold a piece of music in your hand (on a disc), but its essence lies in the extended duration of the moment.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5kxcD0mU9jo

[Agape]

It's like a ... movie slide , I guess . But it has deeper aspects to it ..

for example ..the way events create records in the Universal 'matrix' of time-space ,

look way past ...you can not .

We were not here when the Universe 'started' ..

you can only to see upto what you call a Big Bang , huge shiny event from where your present 'Universe' unfolded .


That's when/where you think Time starts .


Thanks Omni

[Johnny]

Posted by Agape (here)
But time is how fast your planet rotates around its axes and how fast it completes its ecliptics around Sun and also how much mass and energy your Star inherited at start and how fast is it spending it .

With all due respect Agape, you forgot this:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU

That the sun is moving too

Johnny

[Agape]

Sorry , I don't know to whom am I talking to here but thought it's rather obvious

[ZooLife]

When we name something as an illusion including the very word 'illusion' does that somehow make it real?

......conjuring with words.


In the beginning was the Word.....

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3J59fSD4cUQ