Voltaire, Voltaire and again Voltaire.

[Gaia]

Posted by Flash (here)

“Men use thought only as authority for their injustice, and employ speech only to conceal their thoughts.”
― Voltaire

Here it tells you what Voltaire really thought.

Your quote "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"

is not Voltaire's but Hall's and you quoted it wrong too:

In The Friends of Voltaire Hall wrote the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"[4] (which is often misattributed to Voltaire himself) as an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.[5][6] Hall's quotation is often cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.

Voltaire is our Sheakespeare for French people. He is very nuanced. He has to be quoted within context but mostly, rightly quoted.

I like this one from Voltaire yet better, in the context of this thead

Les opinions ont plus causé de maux sur ce petit globe que la peste et les tremblements de terre.

Opinions have caused more ills than the plague or earthquakes on this little globe of ours.

Letter to Élie Bertrand (5 January 1759).

''L'écriture est la peinture de la voix'' ''Les beaux esprits se rencontrent'' Merci mon amie

[Project_Buggy_Beach]

One of my favorite Voltaire quotes, "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." -Voltaire

[ZooLife]

Posted by Flash (here)

Alex may be paid shill, but I doubt it truly. He has this loud American style. I have seen it in hôtels with American tourists, while waiting in the lobby for their bus to the airport, I have seen it on the beach, I have seen it in their homes. It is an American style of talking/behaving. This is self centered at times, but efficient in America. It is culturally based. (sorry Americans, loud behavior is a no no no in many cultures). I think we may have to understand Americans in order to understand Alex.

I do not believe you have even seen even half of America by your statement. I can guarantee you that your generality is invalid. I am born and raised in American, traveling extensively in the same.

Is 'some' Americans that way? Definitely. But it is not the norm, definitely not the norm.

[dianna]

Posted by ZooLife (here)

Posted by Flash (here)

Alex may be paid shill, but I doubt it truly. He has this loud American style. I have seen it in hôtels with American tourists, while waiting in the lobby for their bus to the airport, I have seen it on the beach, I have seen it in their homes. It is an American style of talking/behaving. This is self centered at times, but efficient in America. It is culturally based. (sorry Americans, loud behavior is a no no no in many cultures). I think we may have to understand Americans in order to understand Alex.

I do not believe you ... even [understand] America[s] by your statement.

Agreed. As an American living in Canada for the last 20 years, I can tell you I prefer the "warm" "open" "unreserved" "honest" nature of the people where I come from (and it seems to be the consensus of many immigrants here) to the "reserved" "cold" "condescending" "Milli Vanilli" speak/way of the natives that I have come across here (are all Canadians like this ... NO! ... it is a stereotype that I have experienced ... in the particular city I live in)

[Sierra]

Posted by Agape (here)
I'm sorry if someone would find this disconcerting and I'm not debating moderator actions . I think that A.D. clearly referred to Alex , not Bill , in his post .

Posted by Flash (here)
Yes AD refered to Alex in his post, it is clear to me too Agape.

Wow... I respectfully disagree Flash, Agape. I believe he is addressing Bill, and Bill's opinion throughout the entire post.

What I see: A.D. is explaining here, how Bill and his opinion are wrong about AJ, he even refers to Bill by name below. Which is fine, one can disagree respectfully with others, but that is not what happened here. He sets Bill up with a question:

Posted by A.D. (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by A.D. (here)

@ Bill Ryan... I have a serious question for you. What are your thoughts on this type of behavior and mannerism in this yt clip below? ]

Not smart (at all). Bill agrees with A.D.'s opinion of the four minute clip and goes on to provide the balance of his opinion

Remember, though, he's on air, 100% live and in real time, for 1,000 hours a year. It's quite easy, with a little patience, to pick out four and a half minutes like this.

One could also compile MANY more minutes when he's at his inspiring, balanced, informative best. In Myers-Briggs terms, he's a high-volume ENFP. His passion goes with his personality, and fuels all his work. It's all a package.

Here's an equally serious quesation (to all reading this): What are YOU doing to inspire/educate/inform people of the perils we're in? (And those perils, many of which he describes pretty clearly, are REAL.)

Would the world be a better place if Alex didn't exist? My answer is no... he's woken up literally millions of people. If his style isn't to one's liking, then there are plenty of others to listen to. Tuning in to his show is not compulsory.

A.D. ignores the answer, the why, the explanation that Bill gives for his opinion. A.D. goes directly to how his four minute extraction is the only evidence that should be used to formulate an opinion of AJ.

A.D. says:
It's side stepping the discussion at hand to merely suggest that if you don't like him, don't listen to him. Telling Bill he is merely sidestepping the discussion. It's pretty clear that myself, and the others here trying to point out that tactics used by Jones are deceptive and he's not what he says he is, don't listen to him any more. A.D. says no one should listen to AJ.

Fox News, which has been the number one news network for years now for example, is blatant, transparent propaganda used to steer and manipulate the masses. When pointing out the tactics and deceptions Fox News uses to achieves its ends, it's very easy to dismiss that reality and not address the facts by merely saying "well if you don't like it just go watch some other news channel".Bill is dismissing reality. A.D. misquotes Bill entirely, and conflates Bill's opinion with the tactics and deceptions Fox News uses, because Bill dismisses the facts, and, has the attitude of "well if you don't like it just go watch some other news channel".

That is the same sad, dismissive argument people use when you point out the corruption and deception of America. "If you don't like it, go live somewhere else". Bill uses sad, dismissive arguments, and tells people to live somewhere else. That is not what Bill said. Bill said, "If his style isn't to one's liking, then there are plenty of others to listen to. Tuning in to his show is not compulsory." Which does nothing to address the corruption and deception. It's merely a way of saying "haters gonna hate" and dismiss any actual, valid criticism. Bill dismisses actual, valid criticism.

So to just shrug off the discussion A.D. again accuses Bill of shrugging off the discussion (Is it a discussion at this point? Respectful yet?) . that Jones and his tactics are designed to manipulate and steer the alternative media audience and scene by saying "if you don't like him, don't listen", is just as dismissive and completely disregards the discussion Bill is dismissive and completely disregards the discussion.at hand and in no way addresses the claims being made here that Jones is a controlled agent put in place to steer the alternative media scene as is evidenced by his actions, behavior and words. Bill ignores evidence, does not address claims.

As for your question about what any of us are doing to inform / inspire / educate others of the perils we're in... which is a bit of a backed handed way to say Jones is out there doing something, whereas his detractors are merely just complaining from the peanut gallery and doing nothing... those of us in this thread pointing out the reality of the great deception that is Jones, are attempting to educate and inform those reading this thread of the peril presented by the manipulation and corruption of the alternative media landscape. We are sounding alarm bells and trying to jump up and down and point out the very obvious tactics being used. We are doing something. We are attempting to help others from blindly running off a cliff with the rest of the herd. We are attempting to get people to open their eyes to the obvious deception being sold to masses of people. We are digging beneath the surface to show you the dirt, to show you the roots of the problem at hand.

And speaking of those psychological tactics, so far, no one has been able to argue against them... Says Bill dodges questions, when Bill actually gave his opinion, in fact, Bill, directly addressing Bill and his faults.when presented with the question if you think Alex's behavior, even based off a 4 minute sampling from 1000's of hours, isn't clearly designed to evoke anger and hostility, you dodged the question and said you just think it's "not smart" and then go on to say he's woken up millions and if you don't like it don't listen. At no point addressing the clear psychological manipulation of the viewer and the tactics used by Jones to steer and manipulate the landscape. You do what all Jones supporters do when confronted with the reality of his tactics and dismiss it as him just being "passionate" and look no deeper. Is the pot calling the kettle black re evoking anger and hostility, manipulating, steering, hello?

Snip...

I find it alarming that anyone who is doing any kind of investigative journalism, anyone who has abandoned mainstream journalism due to it's obvious corruption and deception and sought out the alternative media landscape in hopes to battle that corruption and shine light on the truth, can be so easily deceived and won over by the same exact tactics they saw being used in the mainstream media. Bill is again conflated with the mainstream media tactics, as one who will allow Avalon members to be deceived, because of his opinion of AJ.

I find it alarming Bill, that you who has to do very diligent discernment it vetting the people you interview, can be so easily swayed and won over by a man who is clearly not who he says he is.

Snip...

I don't think any of us would enjoy having our opinion addressed this way. Distorted with misquotes, sarcasm, contempt, and NLP tactics. It would be a violation of self, and spirit. It would hurt badly, mentally, and emotionally to be treated so. Bill has a tougher skin than most.

And yes, we moderate/censor, and breaking the guidelines did get A.D. banned, NOT his opinion of AJ. I'm sure many people have or have come to have the same opinion about AJ, as they gained in knowledge, and understanding. But holier than thou self righteous clubbing of people with a different opinion is not the way to conduct a conversation.

No, I am not perfect. Of course. No, the mod team is not perfect. Of course. There are always people who disagree with the banning of their friends. Of course. Or disagree with what we said about a situation. Of course. People disagree with what we don't say about a situation too. Of course. Nobody likes to be kept in the dark about a drama, but would you want your private issues published for all to see? All I can say is the team of volunteers keeping the lights on at Avalon do the very best they can, with the information they have to work with.

I know many, many people appreciate Avalon is a moderated/censored forum, because a large proportion of our apps say this is the first forum they've found where they are coming home at last to people of the same experiences, interests, desire to develop... And where people are NOT allowed to act as A.D. did, and as so many alternative forums allow. It is destructive, and damaging behavior that the guidelines attempt to ameliorate. That *is* the intent of moderation.

Regards, Sierra

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Sierra (here)
Wow... I respectfully disagree Flash, Agape. I believe he is addressing Bill, and Bill's opinion throughout the entire post.

Note also the title of A.D.'s last thread here: Closed Alex Jones Thread - for shame Project Avalon!!!

[Troy Martin]

Posted by M0JFK (here)
Apart from that Alex does good work. On the other side if you look into his background and who funds his radio show you do tend to ask yourself if AJ can be a trusted truther.

Being that Alex repeatedly, on his show, tells people that no group or tax dollars funds his show. It's funded by the products on his site (health products, apparel, books, etc) and memberships. So who do you believe funds his show?

[Carmody]

I believe that Alex gets to chose who funds his show. That he gets to chose the advertisers.

Life is also tied to doing your own research and developing you own thoughts. People can only be protected so far. After a certain point, they are on their own. Parenting instincts are a good thing, but beyond a certain point, people have to deal with their own issues.

Note that 'enlightenment' as they call it, is purely an individual thing. If not, it would be a death.... not an upward trend in 'life'.

So, in logical premise, as analysis..one should not try to uplift everyone-as a group. All you can do is enable the conditions for an individual to uplift themselves. Even in that, one has to be careful to not do the work for people, to not create 'free rides on treadmills'. That would be the direction of bacteria, plants, instinct, and so on. That would be the retardation of growth.

If you uplift everyone, outside of their own efforts, that is the motion of the creation and enabling of a dead thing. That would contrary to the idea and reality of 'life', contrary to growth and growth within the given individualism.

That means we can all get there, but..no floaters. Everyone must work for it. No free rides.

Wake up, individually, or sink, individually. Within that context, rises the potential for the average whole. It really is that simple.

~~~~~~~

Elitist use of fear enables a group instinctual response, so people can be herded and remain or become as that of a commodity. The kind of thing we do to animals, or food, so to speak. A downturn away from intelligence and individuality.

Fear is used as it is the base controlling response pattern of an avatar or individualism vehicle called a human body. The most over-arching, the most thought shifting, thought coloring, thought disabling response of all. The most perfectly matched herd patterning, or instinctual non-individualizing animal response we have.

As we now know that cell phone use is making us more stupid, as it disables thought, it does not enable it..it 'treadmills' the mind, into a pattern. a pattern of constant gibberish. Growth is like physical workouts. The growth comes not from the workout, but from the rest period. The silence in the mind is the area and space of growth. That old enlightenment axiom, that one cannot add to a cup that is already full.

I have a smart phone but I have no desire to use it to make myself stupid. Most of the time it sits around with the battery removed, so it does not clutter my life into animal repetition patterning - which would move to making me stupid, via removing the silences that allow for the rise of individual thought. It should be obvious, for example, that attempts at being alive and growing, have no place for television in them.

In the same way, fear, as constant pressure..is a downturn away from developing intelligence, into a herd-like, controllable, animal mentality. One that really is making people more stupid, more malleable.

Think about it. It takes time, by hey.........it's a long term plan.

[kemo]

He was a right one wasn't he that Voltaire with those memorable one-liners of his. Not exactly funny, but I expect he had em hanging on every word expecting some new bon mots. Wonder if he got invited to parties much.