Spirituality, life after physical death, evidence, or .............

[East Sun]

We can speculate on these things because of what gurus, saints and religions have said and feel that they were right, but even then if we want to be absolutely certain, there is no 'evidence'.

You are right, Troy, you can ask, where's the proof? for ever.

[Rich]

Posted by East Sun (here)
We can speculate on these things because of what gurus, saints and religions have said and feel that they were right, but even then if we want to be absolutely certain, there is no 'evidence'.

Different teachers say different things, some say there is incarnation some say there isn't.
I think both are right it really depends how one looks at things, perspective is everything.

The question would be what is incarnating? The personality? What if the personality is part of the body?
Or does the body belong to a personality? If a higher part of you is reincarnating then it mean this personality is not.

I think it is a thought of the higher self that appears to be incarnating, but there is no real incarnation,
more like playing a computer game and identifying with the character while forgetting that you are not him/her.
That which is a thought for the higher self is the ''reality'' for us.

[greybeard]

Posted by EmEx (here)

Posted by East Sun (here)
We can speculate on these things because of what gurus, saints and religions have said and feel that they were right, but even then if we want to be absolutely certain, there is no 'evidence'.

Different teachers say different things, some say there is incarnation some say there isn't.
I think both are right it really depends how one looks at things, perspective is everything.

The question would be what is incarnating? The personality? What if the personality is part of the body?
Or does the body belong to a personality? If a higher part of you is reincarnating then it mean this personality is not.

I think it is a thought of the higher self that appears to be incarnating, but there is no real incarnation,
more like playing a computer game and identifying with the character while forgetting that you are not him/her.
That which is a thought for the higher self is the ''reality'' for us.

Enlightened "teachers", as opposed to unenlightened ones, all say the same thing.
There is only "One without a second" and you are That-You are the Ultimate. (Non-Duality)
Anything else is illusion.
Reincarnation etc is part of the illusion---there has to be duality for there to be reincarnation.
Consciousness is evolving to know itself.
Consciousness is not however Ultimate.

While there may not seem to be evidence enough to satisfy, answer the OP question.
There is the direct state of knowing, being, enlightenment/awareness, expressed, pointed to over and over for thousands of years.
What is evidence?
There are many things we take as true without direct experience---we take others word for it.
We can prove thing's to be true by replicating the actions of those that first proved for themselves a now commonly accepted truth.
The same goes for Self realisation/ enlightenment.
What one can do all an do.
All be it with some difficulty.
In theory all can climb Mount Everest but not all choose to do what it takes.

Chris

[Rich]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Enlightened "teachers", as opposed to unenlightened ones, all say the same thing.
There is only "One without a second" and you are That-You are the Ultimate. (Non-Duality)
Anything else is illusion.

Yes, they may agree on a few basic things like ''there is only one'' but I have seen many enlightened ones disagreeing on many
things so I have to disagree with your statement that they all say the same thing.

Reincarnation etc is part of the illusion---there has to be duality for there to be reincarnation.

It's all ''illusion'' but the duality concepts continue even after we see that it is a mental construct.

Consciousness is evolving to know itself.

Not sure what you mean by that, maybe you use this word in a different way Chris. Consciousness is already the act of knowing itself, knowing that something exists, but it cannot know what exists.

Consciousness is not however Ultimate.
While there may not seem to be evidence enough to satisfy, answer the OP question.

Yes, we can experience all we need to know now in each moment, imo.
I don't think Love, by its very definition would cut us off from the knowledge required to live this life.

[greybeard]

Hi EmEx I was specific in the one thing that they for sure state "Only One without a second"
There are many good teacher who are close to enlightenment or have had an enlightened experience---their teaching is not specific to the sate of Self realisation as they are not One. Their take on spirituality varies.
Depends who you have read and possibly thought the teacher is enlightened when they fall short of this.

As said Tim's account is accurate, definitive and I visit this thread from time to time,
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post456904

Eckhart Tolle , Mooji and others speak of limited/restricted consciousness---that is the idea that I am a separate person.
So conscious evolves to know that there is only one consciousness.

Duality is a concept--no concept survives as a reality on Enlightenment.

Its not easy to explain or understand as there are different levels and each is relatively true till you get to Ultimate Truth.

Im not claiming to be right---its just my understanding of the moment.

Hope this helps

Love Chris

[Rich]

Chris I do not truly believe in enlightenment, I use that word to say someone who is a relatively advanced being for a human.
I think it is just a concept anyways whatever appears in life is a concept or thought but the human cannot get that it is because it's the thought that
sustains the human consciousness itself, this can only be seen when he goes beyond this life.
Like a you can only see who you are beyond the dream when the dream stops, the dream character cannot comprehend the dreamer.

[Rich]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Eckhart Tolle , Mooji and others speak of limited/restricted consciousness---that is the idea that I am a separate person.
So conscious evolves to know that there is only one consciousness.

I see what you mean but maybe that consciousness was already in place and we simply devolved to have this experiencing of duality more fully or for some other reason.

Duality is a concept--no concept survives as a reality on Enlightenment.

non-duality is also a concept...Bashar has said ''the One'' does not know itself, because there is no reflection, no self awareness when there is only one.

Its not easy to explain or understand as there are different levels and each is relatively true till you get to Ultimate Truth.

What do you mean by Ultimate truth? Enlightenment?
I do not think that we ever come to a point of being done,
there is an interesting Buddha at the Gas Pump interview with Adyasthanti
they talk about this flawed attitude of some enlightened ones who think they are done:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hw47wwOUjuY

[greybeard]

[QUOTE=EmEx;967722]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Eckhart Tolle , Mooji and others speak of limited/restricted consciousness---that is the idea that I am a separate person.
So conscious evolves to know that there is only one consciousness.

I see what you mean but maybe that consciousness was already in place and we simply devolved to have this experiencing of duality more fully or for some other reason.

Duality is a concept--no concept survives as a reality on Enlightenment.

non-duality is also a concept...Bashar has said ''the One'' does not know itself, because there is no reflection, no self awareness when there is only one.

Its not easy to explain or understand as there are different levels and each is relatively true till you get to Ultimate Truth.

What do you mean by Ultimate truth? Enlightenment?
I do not think that we ever come to a point of being done,
there is an interesting Buddha at the Gas Pump interview with Adyasthanti
they talk about this flawed attitude of some enlightened ones who think they are done: end quote.


Yes consciousness devolved EmEx to experience duality.
Ultimate is as far as I know just that--"The totality all of it"

Im ok with Bashar but the energy of enlightenment does not seem to be there.
You can point to truth without having experienced it.
You are safe with one who is in form or at least lived here.
Bashar certainly is accurate with most of what comes across and worthy of respect.

However
Mooji and others say that what you are is self aware, complete, in need of nothing, no desire what so ever.
Awareness is aware of itself--that's what we are
We are self aware---without contact with anything--eyes closed I am aware that I exist.
You can deprive a person of sensory input --use white noise--the works--and they still know I am.

Adyashanti did not have a full awakening at first, it seemed complete but the voice in his head, which was correct, said "Keep going"
Dr David Hawkins also said there are levels of enlightenment, think that's in his book Power vs Force.
So Adyashanti was inclined to smile at those who had a temporary enlightenment--that's an experience not the real deal. They were not done.
Mooji is. There is no person left to complete anything.

Eckhart Tolle also speaks of an enlightened experience and points out that an experience is not it.

Tim is clear.

Anyway why dont you ask Tim on his thread--He is a position to know the definitive answers to enlightenment questions?
I dont.
Tim will always answer questions on that thread--though he is only able to on a Tuesday as far as I know.

Love Chris

[Rich]

I don't have, questions in that sense, just enjoy contemplating things.

[greybeard]

Posted by EmEx (here)
I don't have, questions in that sense, just enjoy contemplating things.

Yes EmEx
So do I.
If not there would be little interaction.
Your contemplation is appreciated and enjoyed--you make me think--laughing.
Love Chris

[Gurudatt]

Love and Peace

[greybeard]

Hi cryptoguru
Welcome to the spiritual section of Avalon

Love Chris

[AlaBil]

Posted by cryptoguru (here)

In 2012, I and a friend of mine embarked on a spiritual journey to find out the meaning of life and death and other spiritual matters. We visited religious places, places of meditation and spiritual ambiance, etc

At the end of this journey everything started flowing into my brain. What is the soul, etc. And I have put it down on my website. But I am from a scientific background so I was not convinced and needed evidence. And over the next one year, I and my friend experimented with this new found knowledge and some amazing things happened.

And that convinced me and my friend that we are spiritual beings not just skin and bones. And there is life beyond death and I also was able to put down a scientific explanation for our experience.

In simple words here is what we discovered...

cryptoguru... I would love to hear more of these experiences and more details if you would be willing to share them.

[Gurudatt]

Love and Peace

[Gurudatt]

Love and Peace

[Rich]

And then though they did happen (I cannot tell what exactly the wishes were but few were personal and others general) I started developing an ego that lead to the end of my practice soon and I slipped back into where I was before and still I am now.

That is a prime example why some teachers never talk about this or may even talk against it.
It can be confused with the personality doing it, when it is your real being doing it.
That's why it works best when there is no effort involved (''Let go and let God'').
Some teachers prefer teaching ''Seek first the kingdom of heaven within and everything else will be added unto you.'' instead of ''You create your own reality.''
There are so many ways the ego can misinterpret or latch onto the later.

But fulfilling your desires is a way to enlightenment because you cannot fulfill your desires without a great degree of self love (especially once we see what our real desire is), it requires a continuous letting go, in your case you stopped at a point and fell back (IMO you don't really have to start over from scratch, you still have what you have learned).

If you are interested I can share my understanding of this ''create your own reality''.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Thanks Chris, appreciate your kindness.

Here is a quote from ACIM about this subject cryptoguru talks about:

This is the only thing that you need do for vision, happiness, release
from pain, and the complete escape from sin, all to be given you. Say only
this, but mean it with no reservations, for here the power of salvation
lies:

I am responsible for what I see. I chose the feelings I
experience, and I decided on the goal I would achieve. And everything that
seems to happen to me I asked for and received as I had asked.

Deceive yourself no longer that you are helpless in the face of what is done to
you. Acknowledge but that you have been mistaken, and all effects of your
mistakes will disappear.

[Gurudatt]

Love and Peace

[Rich]

Posted by cryptoguru (here)
Towards this I have theorized (so I consider it a hypothesis and yet to find proof or evidence) that each of us live in our own individual universes distinct in reality from one another and yet it seems like we live in one single universe.

yes I agree with this.
We each have our own reality and Universe. This is so from my experience and also what Bashar and ACIM says.
However ACIM says this comes because we judge our brothers to be something they are not.
So maybe there is a way to be in the same reality together I don't know.

[Rich]

Posted by cryptoguru (here)
Most certainly would love to hear from your about "create your own reality".

I recommend listening to Bashar he explains it well.

Posted by cryptoguru (here)
Earlier whatever I thought or said the opposite used to happened and after getting into the Neutral state, the reverse started happening.

Yes, some people mistake this for a siddhi, it's not a siddhi nor an ability, it is simply how life works, the material is a reflection of thoughts, so our strongest thoughts/beliefs manifest in the material whether we realize it or not.

In other words; our definition of reality is our reality.

That is whatever I wished for that started occurring. But then I started making mortal mistakes. My friend challenged me to prove what I was experiencing by having some of his wishes fulfilled.

I've read of gurus doing that for their desciples.

So one has to become kind of hermit and say give up all the pleasures and desires and addictions we all have but do not admit. To be able to get into the neutral energy state and practice the meditation.

I don't think that you have to be a hermit, what is important is that the desire for truth is the strongest desire, that way you will give priority to spiritual growth over physical abundance or recognition from people.

[Rich]

Personally I don't think of it this way much anymore, and don't do this consciously anymore maybe some day again, I can't say.
I trust that Love knows what's required, it's just an allowing not trying to create anything unless it comes spontaneously.

I think a more accurate statement of truth instead of ''I create my own reality.'' is ''I am my own reality.''
That seems closer to my understanding at the moment.