Thank you – but... I am probably bordering on idiotic, but I do not understand Maria Dubovikova’s point.. One of the queueing cars (the one we can see) has a Russian number plate... yes... and so... ?
24th September 2022 23:03
Bill Ryan
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
An excellent short (3 minute) video published by Southfront yesterday. For anyone not closely following the recently announced referendums — and the intensified Ukrainian attacks on citizens — it's a detailed and at the same time very concise summary.
Just to spit out some more devil in the details about today's voting process, this is what is brought to you by makers and users of Statues of Liberty:
Ukrainian militants used 155-caliber CESAR artillery systems supplied by France.
Over the past day, about 300 rounds of ammunition hit the territory of the DPR, in total, killing seven civilians.
In the LPR, over the past day, Novoaidar, Lisichansk and Gorskoe were hit by US-made HIMARS. 18 missiles hit the territory of the Republic.
As a result of the attack, a warehouse of the republican base of special medical supplies was destroyed, and the buildings of the city rescue city fire service were damaged.
On September 23, the town of Stakhanov was again shelled by the American-made MLRS M142 HIMARS. Just in the morning alone 6 rockets hit the town.
Another article on deceit explains simply enough America being taken over by the same autocrat of Europe:
This unseen mechanism of society that manipulates us through fear into compliance is what American theorist Edward L. Bernays referred to as “an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.”
It was almost 100 years ago when Bernays wrote his seminal work Propaganda:
“We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of… In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons…who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
25th September 2022 02:56
ZenBaller
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
Hey everyone, I made a similar question a few months ago in this thread. I watch a few videos from this thread every now and then, but it's hard to follow all the alternative media about what's really going on and pointless to follow anything mainstream.
Can anyone make a small recap about the state of the war? I have some general questions like: Is the operation still successful for Russia? Are most of the objectives completed like the current referendum/integration? Does it look like it will end soon or does Russia have extended goals outside Ukraine (are the recent mobilization news real?)? Are nuclear threats real?
Thank you
25th September 2022 03:38
Chester
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
Quote:
Posted by Kryztian
Is this intentional???
This is a question I've been pondering. Is "The West" (i.e. U.S. and E.U. countries, G7 nations, etc.) intentionally trying to destroy itself??? It really does look like it! But what objective would that accomplish? Who benefits? Who is behind this?
The hyperdimensional Nordics and their Earthly minions, Die Spinne (ie. the 4th Reich). The goal is to set up China as world hegimon who will turn humanity over to the "savior" Nordics masquerading as "the good ETs" sometime around 2050.
¤=[Post Update]=¤
Quote:
Posted by zebowho
Quote:
Posted by Kryztian
.....
Is this intentional???
This is a question I've been pondering. Is "The West" (i.e. U.S. and E.U. countries, G7 nations, etc.) intentionally trying to destroy itself??? It really does look like it! But what objective would that accomplish? Who benefits? Who is behind this?
The WEF (at least the out in the open part). I just had to add that, sorry, off topic and I'm jumping back to reading!
-z
Yes, the WEF is a major overt front for Die Spinne... but the rabbit hole goes deeper as I just mentioned above.
25th September 2022 04:39
Kryztian
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
An American and a Russian are drinking at a bar.
The American turns to the Russian and says "the propaganda in your country is really bad."
The Russian says, "that's true, It's certainly not as good as the propaganda in your country."
Thank you – but... I am probably bordering on idiotic, but I do not understand Maria Dubovikova’s point.. One of the queueing cars (the one we can see) has a Russian number plate... yes... and so... ?
I think that the point is that the Volvo has an EU plate from what I can make out, see the blue part on the left hand side of the plate, the same as you see on EU cars where the country code is displayed with a blue background. The insinuation is that the photo was not taken at a Russian border crossing.
Quote:
Posted by Tintin
25th September 2022 06:08
Johnnycomelately
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
Quote:
Posted by Kryztian
An American and a Russian are drinking at a bar.
The American turns to the Russian and says "the propaganda in your country is really bad."
The Russian says, "that's true, It's certainly not as good as the propaganda in your country."
The American says, "what propaganda?"
“Look strong when you are weak. Look weak when you are strong.” I practice the latter in playing pool. I call it “inspiring overconfidence”.
If Sun Tzu’s thoughts about war had been translated a bit earlier, Clausewitz wouldn’t have spawned the awful heights of carnage in that “War to end all wars”.
I don’t think it’s been possible to read the moves of war mongers/makers, since then.
Pretty sure it was James Clavell who brought that to light, including in the business world, in his book set in 60’s Hong Kong. I forget the title, not gonna look it up. Cheers.
Thank you – but... I am probably bordering on idiotic, but I do not understand Maria Dubovikova’s point.. One of the queueing cars (the one we can see) has a Russian number plate... yes... and so... ?
I think that the point is that the Volvo has an EU plate from what I can make out, see the blue part on the left hand side of the plate, that same as you see on EU cars where the country code is displayed with a blue background. The insinuation is that the photo was not taken at a Russian border crossing.
Quote:
Posted by Tintin
Yes, Brigantia has identified the very likely issue here, which was my immediate thought too. It's not really a detail that has to be laboured over for too long necessarily but I'd offer this.
The number plate shown on the vehicle clearly isn't a Russian number plate. Maria used an example of one to make that point. That doesn't mean to say that there aren't any EU plated vehicles in Russia but without being able to see any of the other car number plates in the picture - and there are a preponderence of black motor vehicles (intelligence services; rental stock for staged events?) in shot here as well - may suggest that this shot doesn't prove in any way that this is at a Russian border crossing; doesn't show at all conclusively that the individual, and other individuals shown, are of 'call up' age (between 16 and 37 with previous training/reservist); would more likely be stock footage used to promote the idea of a mass exodus in the public mind, and that vehicle number plate would usually I think be blurred - why do we see it at all?
In short, I'm not buying this, any more than I am any of the other pernicious flim flam promoted by western media.
Sure, there will be some younger men and women reluctant to want to leave the relative comfort and normality of their lives as ordinary citizens and will attempt to dodge the call-up, but the picture used to support that narrative ain't cutting it.
And where may they be headed anyway? Perhaps if you're an anti-Russian citizen attempting to flee then maybe you'll head to Finland (bad idea), but, apart from that I can't for the life of me fathom where you'd go.
Simply put, if this is an issue at all, it isn't anywhere near as bad as the western media are portraying it.
Thank you – but... I am probably bordering on idiotic, but I do not understand Maria Dubovikova’s point.. One of the queueing cars (the one we can see) has a Russian number plate... yes... and so... ?
I think that the point is that the Volvo has an EU plate from what I can make out, see the blue part on the left hand side of the plate, that same as you see on EU cars where the country code is displayed with a blue background. The insinuation is that the photo was not taken at a Russian border crossing.
Quote:
Posted by Tintin
I saw that too, it's a German plate, I think the post was supposed to be ironic or sarcastic at least but should have captioned the Russian plate "A Russian plate" not "The Russian plate"
Hey everyone, I made a similar question a few months ago in this thread. I watch a few videos from this thread every now and then, but it's hard to follow all the alternative media about what's really going on and pointless to follow anything mainstream.
Can anyone make a small recap about the state of the war? I have some general questions like: Is the operation still successful for Russia? Are most of the objectives completed like the current referendum/integration? Does it look like it will end soon or does Russia have extended goals outside Ukraine (are the recent mobilization news real?)? Are nuclear threats real?
Thank you
I'll do my best! :)
The western media in every single example I know of (many, over 7 months!!) is flat-out lying about everything connected with the Ukraine situation.
Since February, the Russian military has been going slowly and carefully, constrained by the Russian legal system which defines exactly what the SMO (Special Military Operation) can and can't do. (That includes NOT harming Ukrainian civilians or civilian infrastructure for its own sake.)
Putin, contrary to every western media account you may read, is intelligent, very well-informed, measured, careful, patient, very legalistic, and methodical in all his thinking and actions. He's probably the most capable and sane leader of any major nation on the planet.
Precisely because of his approach, he's come under some criticism in Russia for not 'taking the gloves off' and finishing this quickly, which Russia certainly could do. They've not used many of their soldiers, and barely any of their air force or missile capacity. Almost al the infantry fighting on the ground has been carried out by Donbass militia, NOT Russian professionals.
A couple of weeks ago there was a tipping point, when Ukraine launched two arguably desperate, all-out offensives. (These have been compared to the German Ardennes offensive in June 1944, Hitler's last throw of the dice, which failed.)
One offensive (Kherson) failed immediately. The other (Kharkiv) captured the town of Izyium, and gained 2,000 sq km of territory. (Note: this is an area of just 27 miles x 27 miles.) The Russians pulled back their very thin force of 2,000 soldiers with almost no casualties, and allowed the Ukrainians to gain ground. However, Russian artillery, some distance away, inflicted many thousands of Ukrainian military deaths, 6,000 or more.
But this left Izyum undefended, and the Ukrainians took brutal, sadistic revenge on the civilians there. This (maybe justifiably) triggered a firestorm of criticism in Russia, as it was the first time the Russian military had (a) 'lost a battle', and (b) betrayed the Ukrainian civilians who had trusted Russia to protect them.
So something had to change. Putin (of course, having consulted everyone, including the Chinese and Indians, whose support is extremely valuable to Russia in global terms), ordered referendums to be held in 4 regions of Ukraine which bordered Russia. These are taking place right now (this is Day 3 of 5).
Simultaneously, he ordered 300,000 reservists to be called up for military duty. These are very unlikely to go to the front lines, but will perform essential support duties in logistics and other matters. But that frees up professional serving military to move to the front lines where they are arguably needed.
The key thing that this changes is this. The sure result of the referendums (for all 4 regions to become a part of the Russian Federation) will be formally and legally actioned on 30 September. That means that the Ukrainian military is no longer attacking Donbass, but is attacking and occupying Russia itself.
That changes the legal framework of the SMO, as Russia will use any and all necessary means to protect their nation. It seems this move (though it must have been quietly prepared as a contingency some time ago) was not anticipated by NATO or the US, and of course the referendums have been decried throughout the western world as 'shams'. (And Zelensky, the 'protector of democracy' that he claims to be, has promised to imprison all Ukrainian citizens who dare to vote in the referendums.)
How NATO will respond to this is unknown. And, of course, the situation may potentially escalate dangerously. But the gloves are fully off at last, and now Putin will be legally free to deploy (e.g.) the entire Russian air force, which is considerable — and maybe much more — to defend what will formally be Russian territory.
Over 110,000 LPR citizens cast their ballots in Russia in past two days — LPR CEC
There were no incidents during the second day of voting, officials say
LUGANSK, September 24. /TASS/. More than 110,000 citizens of the Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR) have cast their votes in the past two days at polling stations in Russia in the referendum on the LPR joining Russia, Svetlana Kirsanova, chairwoman of the LPR Central Election Commission’s office in Russia, told reporters on Saturday.
"As of today - September 24, 2022, as many as 110,754 LPR residents have taken part in voting on territory of the Russian Federation," she said.
According to Kirsanova, there were no incidents during the second day of voting by LPR citizens in Russian regions.
Blast in Berdyansk seen as Ukraine’s another attempted act of sabotage - authorities
The explosions in Berdyansk were reported at 12:00 and 14:10 Moscow time
BERDYANSK, September 25. /TASS/. The explosion that rocked the city of Berdyansk in the Zaporozhye region was an attempted act of sabotage staged by Ukrainian troops, the city’s military-civilian administration told TASS on Sunday.
"Another act of sabotage was attempted in Berdyansk. A caseless explosive device planted in a trash bin went off near Schmidt Park," it said, adding that no one was hurt and no damage was done. It was the second blast on Sunday.
Earlier, leader of the We Are Together with Russia movement Vladimir Rogov said that the explosions in Berdyansk were reported at 12:00 and 14:10 Moscow time. No one was hurt.
Ninety-three percent of ballots cast for joining Russia on Sept. 23 in Zaporozhye Region
According to the Crimean Republican Institute for Political and Sociological Research, 500 residents of the region were polled on the first day of the referendum voting
MELITOPOL, September 25. /TASS/. A total of 93% of those casting their ballots on the first day of the referendum on the Zaporozhye Region’s joining the Russian Federation supported joining Russia, according to the information following a poll released by the Crimean Republican Institute for Political and Sociological Research.
"500 residents of the region were polled on the first day of the referendum voting, on September 23, 2022. Of those participating in the referendum and replying the question 93% supported the Zaporozhye Region’s joining the Russian Federation, while 7% supported the Ukrainian status of the region," the institute said.
KHERSON, September 25. /TASS/. A missile strike, assumably from the HIMARS multiple-launch rocket system, has hit a hotel in Kherson, causing casualties, a TASS correspondent reported on Sunday.
The Ukrainian military attacked the Kherson hotel at 5:30 am, assumably, firing one rocket from the HIMARS multiple-launch rocket system, according to the information provided by a TASS correspondent. Two people were killed, according to preliminary estimates.
Deputy of the Verkhovna Rada (parliament) of the fifth and sixth calling Alexey Zhuravko was killed in a missile strike by the Ukrainian military at a hotel in the center of Kherson, Kirill Stremousov, deputy head of the Kherson Region’s military-civilian administration, told TASS on Sunday.
"Yes, Zhuravko died, unfortunately. We talked with him only yesterday," he said.
"He was at the hotel, the attack was directed at it. Again, there are no military facilities there," Stremousov added.
The Kherson Region’s administration called the missile attack at the hotel a planned terrorist act.[COLOR="red"]
25th September 2022 14:11
Chester
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
Quote:
Posted by Kryztian
An American and a Russian are drinking at a bar.
The American turns to the Russian and says "the propaganda in your country is really bad."
The Russian says, "that's true, It's certainly not as good as the propaganda in your country."
The American says, "what propaganda?"
I would replace America with the entire West (and perhaps 99% of the rest of the world) -
“What I may call the messages of Brave New World, but it is possible to make people contented with their servitude. I think this can be done. I think it has been done in the past. I think it could be done even more effectively now because you can provide them with bread and circuses and you can provide them with endless amounts of distractions and propaganda.”
Exposed: Covert Pro-Western Info Op
Declassified Australia’s Peter Cronau flags and analyzes a report by researchers at Stanford University and Graphika about a massive secret propaganda operation being run out of the U.S. The report, from late August, has been buried by the Western media.
Targeting Russia, China, Iran, Central Asia, and other Middle East countries, the U.S. military’s Information Operation to spread propaganda is the most extensive program of covert pro-Western Information Operations on social media ever revealed. (Stanford Internet Observatory)
By Peter Cronau
Declassified Australia
A covert online propaganda operation said to be the world’s largest promoting “pro-Western narratives” has been found to be operating primarily out of the United States, targeting Russia, China and Iran.
“We believe this activity represents the most extensive case of covert pro-Western IO [Information Operation] on social media to be reviewed and analysed by open-source researchers to date,” say the researchers from Stanford University and internet research firm, Graphika.
The researchers found most of the Information Operation “likely originated in the United States.” From there it ran a massive, interconnected web of automated “bot” accounts on Twitter, Facebook and other social media platforms.
The covert operation to influence online audiences has been using “deceptive tactics to promote pro-Western narratives,” while “opposing countries including Russia, China and Iran.”
“The accounts heavily criticized Russia in particular for the deaths of innocent civilians and other atrocities its soldiers committed in pursuit of the Kremlin’s ‘imperial ambitions’ following its invasion of Ukraine in February this year,” the report says.
Declassified Australia is publishing here a detailed analysis of the remarkable report by Stanford University’s Internet Observatory (SIO) and network analysis firm Graphika, released on Aug. 24.
This report is all the more surprising because SIO and Graphika have deep connections to the U.S. national security state and to information campaigns against U.S.-designated enemies Russia, China and Iran.
SIO’s director, Alex Stamos, for example, is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, a visiting scholar at the Hoover Institute and on the advisory board of NATO’s Collective Cybersecurity Center of Excellence. He was chief security officer at Facebook where he led the company’s investigation into alleged Russian manipulation of the 2016 U.S. election.
Graphika’s director of investigations, Ben Nimmo, is a senior fellow with the Atlantic Council, was a consultant to the U.K.’s Integrity Initiative propaganda unit, previously worked as press officer for NATO and is now intelligence chief at Meta (which owns Facebook and Instagram). There he produced a report that attempted to link Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to a Russian influence operation prior to the 2019 U.K. general election.
Ironically titled “Unheard Voice: Evaluating five years of pro-Western covert influence operations,” the report has been studiously ignored by almost all in the Western establishment media since its release last month. Despite the scale and targeting of the propaganda operation, the spectacular revelations have received only scant attention like this slight mention in The Sydney Morning Herald.
A light-hearted column in The Washington Post referred to it as a “splashy report,” saying some of the covert U.S. accounts had posted “cat pictures” in order to appear authentic. The column references Russian and Chinese cyber-espionage operations in framing its remarks about the report.
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Part of the reason the report has been effectively buried may be because it was conveniently overshadowed on the very same day of its release by another Stanford Internet Observatory release titled, “A Front for Influence: An Analysis of a Pro-Kremlin Network Promoting Narratives on COVID-19 and Ukraine.”
Massive Twitter-Meta Dataset
The data analysed by Stanford-Graphika came after Twitter and Meta/Facebook in July and August removed two overlapping sets of fake accounts for violating their terms of service. The datasets appear to cover a series of covert campaigns over a period of almost five years rather than one homogeneous operation.
The Twitter dataset covered 299,566 tweets by 146 accounts, while the Meta dataset focussed on 39 Facebook profiles and 26 Instagram accounts. Twitter said the accounts breached its policies on “platform manipulation and spam,” while Meta said the assets on its platforms engaged in “coordinated inauthentic behavior.”
Community network map of followers of covert clusters’ fake Twitter accounts in Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia region. Colours represent major community groupings. Distance reflects network proximity, with accounts appearing close to those they follow and that follow them. (Stanford Internet Observatory-Graphika)
The Stanford-Graphika report at one point tended to hose down the reach and influence of the fake accounts: “The vast majority of [the hundreds of thousands of] posts and tweets we reviewed, received no more than a handful of likes or retweets, and only 19 percent of the covert assets we identified had more than 1,000 followers.”
While this may give critics of the report a thread to cling to, hundreds of fake accounts with thousands of followers is certainly substantial. Elsewhere in the report, the operation is described as “the most extensive case of covert pro-Western IO [Information Operation] on social media to be reviewed and analysed by open-source researchers to date.”
The researchers did not identify which U.S. entities were running the program, however did note that:
“The accounts sometimes shared news articles from US government-funded media outlets, such as Voice of America and Radio Free Europe, and links to websites sponsored by the US military.”
Amongst the data analysed, two distinct disinformation campaigns were identified. One is a previously exposed disinformation campaign run by the Pentagon, while the second comprises a previously unknown series of covert operations of unspecified origin.
The Stanford-Graphika researchers found in the datasets one campaign to be “linked to an overt US government messaging campaign called the Trans-Regional Web Initiative.” The first evidence of this program came from Washington-based thinktank, the Stimson Center, in 2012 — their report is now off-line but is archived here.
This “Web Initiative” influence program has been run by the U.S. military’s elite Special Operations Command (SOCOM) during the 2010s, deploying dozens of Military Information Support Operations (MISO) teams on psychological operations around the world at the request of military commanders in the field, and ambassadors in a range of U.S. embassies.
SOCOM had contracted some of its development work on the multimillion dollar disinformation operation to the Rendon Group, a C.I.A.-linked contractor notorious for influencing public opinion and Western media before the start of the Iraq War in 2003.
SOCOM’s influence operation included preparing websites that offer news, cultural reports, sports and other programming to “target audiences,” such as Southeast Europe Times and Central Asia Online. The websites “have the strong appearance of civilian journalism” and seek “to express the United States and its operations in a positive light.”
Covert Clusters Exposed
The newly-revealed covert clusters of the Information Operation (IO) received closer examination by the Stanford-Graphika report, which identified it as “the most extensive case of covert pro-Western IO on social media” so far examined by open-source researchers.
The covert pro-Western fake accounts identified by Twitter and Meta had “created fake personas with GAN (Generative Adversarial Network-computer-generated) faces, posed as independent media outlets, leveraged memes and short-form videos, attempted to start hashtag campaigns, and launched online petitions.”
Through social media network mapping, the covert Twitter accounts were targeting Middle East audiences primarily in Iran (45 percent), Afghanistan, Iraq and also Central Asia. Analysis also found “smaller community clusters in the network containing mixed international accounts focused loosely on a variety of international figures and organizations.”
One profile picture in the Central Asia cluster used a doctored photo (left), of actor Valeria Menendez (right) as its profile picture. The asset that used this image was listed as the contact for Intergazeta’s VK page. (Stanford Internet Observatory-Graphika)
Some of the covert accounts targeted regions of Russia and China. “The operation targeted Russian-speaking Central Asian audiences and focused on praising American aid to Central Asia and criticizing Russia, particularly its foreign policy. Two assets concentrated on China and the treatment of Chinese Muslim minorities, particularly the Uighurs in Xinjiang province.”
The researchers found the disinformation clusters focused on several pro-Western topics, being
“US diplomatic and humanitarian efforts in the region, Russia’s alleged malign influence, Russian military interventions in the Middle East and Africa, and Chinese ‘imperialism’ and treatment of Muslim minorities.”
The Russia Cluster
Ukraine became the focus of much of the covert Twitter operation from February. The researchers found “assets that previously posted about Russian military activities in the Middle East and Africa pivoted towards the war in Ukraine, presenting the conflict as a threat to people in Central Asia.”
“Shortly after the invasion began in February, accounts promoted pro-Ukrainian protests in Central Asian countries. Later posts reported on evidence of atrocities committed by Russian troops and Russia’s block on Ukrainian grain exports.”
The covert campaign, citing Russia’s “imperial” ambitions, presented the U.S. as ‘the main guarantor of Central Asia’s sovereignty against Russia.”
“Other posts criticized Russia’s use of propaganda to spread anti-West and pro-Russia narratives in Central Asia, depicting Russia as a nefarious actor working to undermine independent democracies.”
Posts suggesting Russia will use ethnic minorities to fight in Ukraine, left, and the deadly result of conscription of Central Asian migrants into the Russian military, right. (Stanford Internet Observatory-Graphika)
The covert operation established “fake personas” linked to “sham media outlets” purporting to report news from events in Central Asia. Several of these sites and pages attracted as many as 6,000 followers.
Facebook transparency data showed administrator locations of four of the fake pages as being in France, but Meta analysis found them to be actually “originated in the US.” Several pages posted pictures of Paris and its monuments in an attempt to obfuscate the true U.S. origins.
Several of the fake “news” sites, such as Intergazeta and Vostochnaya Pravda, translated content into Russian from the websites of the BBC Russian Service, U.S. embassies in Central Asia, and U.S.-funded Radio Free Europe. They also often obtained content from media outlets directly sponsored by the U.S. Central Command, particularly Caravanserai.
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At least four of the sham media outlets “made apparent attempts to launch hashtag campaigns related to the war in Ukraine.” One site posting about the Russian invasion of Ukraine used the not-so-subtle hashtag translated as #TodayUkraineTomorrowCentralAsia. The report’s audience analysis found these attempts did not gain significant traction.
The China Cluster
The researchers found a small cluster of assets of the Central Asia group was focused almost exclusively on China. “These accounts — a fake persona and sham media outlet — mainly focused on the genocide of Uighurs and Muslim minorities in ‘re-education’ camps in Xinjiang.”
Posts described “alleged organ trafficking, forced labor, sexual crimes against Muslim women, and suspicious disappearances of ethnic Muslims in Xinjiang.” Other assets in the group also posted about China, asserting that “Chinese authoritarianism and financial imperialism threatened Central Asia and other regions of the world.”
I would only add this (related to point #1 about media lying shamelessly)
As a rule, for every single article, comment or statement coming from anyone in the west/ukrainian media/governments, the opposite is usually the truth more or less, so that gives you a hint of what's truly going on in the field
- 6000 soldiers died from Russia and 50,000 in Ukraine, it will be announced as the complete opposite, 50,000 Russians dead, 5000 Ukrainians
- The Russian air force is finished, that's why they had to buy drones from Iran and the air defenses lack rockets because Russia run out of them and can't build more. The truth: The Ukrainian Air force is completely destroyed, they had to beg for obsolete Mig-29 planes from other countries and they basically don't have any kind of useful air defense systems, except for just a few in Kiev and Lviv maybe
- Russian people are forced into joining the army at gun point, they can't refuse. In general, we have seen tons of videos of the Ukrainian army chasing people on the streets trying to get them so they can summon them, there are millions of people in Ukraine who have left the country to avoid being summoned into the army. There are a few people of course, in Russia, who don't want to go fight, they also run away, but the quantity of videos showing people walking on their own to join the army, and some of them complaining that they were rejected, completely shows the opposite, it is in Ukraine where people refuses even violently to be summoned, but this is hidden from the main stream news of course
- Putin is about to be taken out of power, there's a coup coming, millions of people reject the war and Putin is desperate. This is what actually is happening in Ukraine, people run away and reject the war, and most reject Zelensky, they know he is a fake that has changed his political position at least 2 times in the past, he only says what he is told to say and people knows that very well. There is a lot of unrest in Ukraine, but this also is hidden from mainstream media in the west and all other places where it matters to keep the narrative running. It is very well known that the military does not respect Zelensky at all, there are videos where they specifically tell him that in his face, and they constantly go against his orders or at least disagree. This is well known too, there's a constant chance that a coup may happen and he will get removed from power, that's why he had to remove some people from military positions some time ago.
- If there's shelling in Donbass, anywhere, it is claimed as "Russian shelling" but it's actually from Ukraine, cases like the nuclear power plant, and in Donetsk as well, have been reported in western media constantly as "Russian shelling that killed people". Bizarre but true
- Ukrainians who disagree with being killed because of ethnic background or political affiliation are called "Russian-backed separatists" because there's no way the west or the UN will say "These people are Ukrainians too, but they don't want to participate in the madness of the current government", as this would lead to questions such as "why do these people want to separate from the rest of Ukraine?", which opens the sewer door the west has invested millions of dollars to keep shut :)
Ukraine officials make claim Russian volunteers are refusing to serve in combat conditions after their counter-offensive
But if you go look on Telegram:bigsmile:, there are tons and tons of videos showing the opposite, yet we can see also lots and lots of videos of Ukrainian soldiers posting videos where they expose why they refuse to fight, and then sometimes even have claimed that they were left in the front line without weapons or food, and some of them were shot in the legs because of refusing to go fight without proper training or resources
But here on this article, the opposite is written, if you replace "Russia" with "Ukraine" you more or less get closer to the truth of the situation on the ground
Quote:
Posted by Bill Ryan
Quote:
Posted by ZenBaller
Hey everyone, I made a similar question a few months ago in this thread. I watch a few videos from this thread every now and then, but it's hard to follow all the alternative media about what's really going on and pointless to follow anything mainstream.
Can anyone make a small recap about the state of the war? I have some general questions like: Is the operation still successful for Russia? Are most of the objectives completed like the current referendum/integration? Does it look like it will end soon or does Russia have extended goals outside Ukraine (are the recent mobilization news real?)? Are nuclear threats real?
Thank you
I'll do my best! :)
The western media in every single example I know of (many, over 7 months!!) is flat-out lying about everything connected with the Ukraine situation.
Since February, the Russian military has been going slowly and carefully, constrained by the Russian legal system which defines exactly what the SMO (Special Military Operation) can and can't do. (That includes NOT harming Ukrainian civilians or civilian infrastructure for its own sake.)
Putin, contrary to every western media account you may read, is intelligent, very well-informed, measured, careful, patient, very legalistic, and methodical in all his thinking and actions. He's probably the most capable and sane leader of any major nation on the planet.
Precisely because of his approach, he's come under some criticism in Russia for not 'taking the gloves off' and finishing this quickly, which Russia certainly could do. They've not used many of their soldiers, and barely any of their air force or missile capacity. Almost al the infantry fighting on the ground has been carried out by Donbass militia, NOT Russian professionals.
A couple of weeks ago there was a tipping point, when Ukraine launched two arguably desperate, all-out offensives. (These have been compared to the German Ardennes offensive in June 1944, Hitler's last throw of the dice, which failed.)
One offensive (Kherson) failed immediately. The other (Kharkiv) captured the town of Izyium, and gained 2,000 sq km of territory. (Note: this is an area of just 27 miles x 27 miles.) The Russians pulled back their very thin force of 2,000 soldiers with almost no casualties, and allowed the Ukrainians to gain ground. However, Russian artillery, some distance away, inflicted many thousands of Ukrainian military deaths, 6,000 or more.
But this left Izyum undefended, and the Ukrainians took brutal, sadistic revenge on the civilians there. This (maybe justifiably) triggered a firestorm of criticism in Russia, as it was the first time the Russian military had (a) 'lost a battle', and (b) betrayed the Ukrainian civilians who had trusted Russia to protect them.
So something had to change. Putin (of course, having consulted everyone, including the Chinese and Indians, whose support is extremely valuable to Russia in global terms), ordered referendums to be held in 4 regions of Ukraine which bordered Russia. These are taking place right now (this is Day 3 of 5).
Simultaneously, he ordered 300,000 reservists to be called up for military duty. These are very unlikely to go to the front lines, but will perform essential support duties in logistics and other matters. But that frees up professional serving military to move to the front lines where they are arguably needed.
The key thing that this changes is this. The sure result of the referendums (for all 4 regions to become a part of the Russian Federation) will be formally and legally actioned on 30 September. That means that the Ukrainian military is no longer attacking Donbass, but is attacking and occupying Russia itself.
That changes the legal framework of the SMO, as Russia will use any and all necessary means to protect their nation. It seems this move (though it must have been quietly prepared as a contingency some time ago) was not anticipated by NATO or the US, and of course the referendums have been decried throughout the western world as 'shams'. (And Zelensky, the 'protector of democracy' that he claims to be, has promised to imprison all Ukrainian citizens who dare to vote in the referendums.)
How NATO will respond to this is unknown. And, of course, the situation may potentially escalate dangerously. But the gloves are fully off at last, and now Putin will be legally free to deploy (e.g.) the entire Russian air force, which is considerable — and maybe much more — to defend what will formally be Russian territory.
25th September 2022 15:47
Mashika
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
There's a difference between not knowing or being unaware, and lying openly and knowingly. There's a disgrace to one self and to whatever 'values' the person claims to follow and fight for. Some people just are rotten to the very core, and usually those are the ones that fight the most for 'the values' they claim to respect and be born into, but these are fake values and fake people, they have no honor or pride, they are 'diminished rotten souls for sale'. Pathetic and deplorable.
25th September 2022 16:39
Mashika
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
The western media, the western governments and unfortunately, several western general public members (by knowingly participating or by enabling through ignorance) have so much blood on their hands, that the entire supply of water of the world would not be enough to clean those dirty hands and minds
Those who know and have so dark will and wishes internally, just pure hate, that they turn a blind eye when they see the brutal crimes committed by the ukrainian nazi groups. Like the shelling of Donetsk where that little ballerina girl died torn into two pieces along with her grandmother. That did not made the news on the western media, and there was not cry for justice anywhere! Yet, as some say, the people in Donetsk did not had a chance to turn a blind eye, as her brutally destroyed body lay there on the street for everyone to see
That's what makes the difference between a human being and a psychopath, that lack of empathy that can be seen in a lot of people, some of them even celebrating that death
I just have to truly ask, not with any kind of secret purpose, what kind of education or society raises people who see a little girl turn into pieces on the floor and says "great, that's what you get for speaking Russian!"
There's just something completely gone wrong with that society, or am i wrong? It's just how things seem to be, very realistically because we are not 'supposing' anything, it's a fact this happens
And then see videos like the one here, this is another thing that has happened before and that in the western media was said that Russian soldiers did, but videos on the web, or pictures like this one, prove that there's something very rotten and broken in the Ukrainian society, which models itself after the western one, as they lack a real identity since they have 'thrown away' all Russian related influences (which were a lot, by the way. Russia and Ukraine share a lot, or used to). Current Ukraine has no values, no culture, nothing to respect or care for, they are just copycats of some kind of rotten, broken, weak and corrupted 'thing' that the western governments call "western values". Whatever that is
Another Ukrainian cannibal. Boils human heads, films the process. What does it take not to shoot himself, with him, one must understand his colleagues participating in the process. It is against such people that the war is going on now. Well, yes, these people, it turns out, are the face of Western liberal democracy.
I'm just about fed up with the fakery of 'western values' that is displayed all over by politicians, the truth is that there is no such thing at least for them, they lie and murder and celebrate the killing of millions and laugh in the face of the public, and then plan how to kill more
There is a reason why the public on the west is never told the truth, it would be very hard to say:
"The reality is that you have been able to enjoy this nice life with lots of nice things and money and privileges out of us killing millions all over the world. And by meddling, causing poverty, stealing, and in general being all the things we accuse everyone else of doing.
We are the murderers, we are the dictators, the authoritarians and if we are not in control then you will lose all your nice things, so you must protect us and then you will continue to live that nice life you like so much, at the expense of 90% of the world, so thing carefully, it's either poverty for all, or richness for you, just ignore the rest of the world, if you don't think about them, it doesn't matter"
That's a bit of a difficult conversation to have, but it's the full truth. You just have to be outside that bubble to see things for what they truly are "without the glasses of exceptionalism"
Some time ago, a few years or so, i had a conversation with someone in ATS forum, and i asked "Do you feel ok eating your nice ice cream if you know it has the blood of Venezuelans on it?" And the person said "Dam yes i do, and i will eat it again as many times i want, because we earned it" or something on those lines
So that says a lot about the "education" and "moral and values" that person had. Hopefully, and thankfully, he doesn't represent the entire population of the US, but what a nasty person he was/is
25th September 2022 17:39
Vicus
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
Hundreds of foreign fighters killed in Ukraine – Russia
The mercenaries were eliminated in a missile attack on a deployment center, Moscow announced
Up to 300 foreigners fighting for Kiev against Moscow have been killed in Nikolayev Region in southern Ukraine, the Russian Defense Ministry claimed on Saturday.
“Up to 300 militants were eliminated by a missile attack on the point of temporary deployment of foreign mercenaries in the area of the village of Kalinovka, Nikolayev Region,” the ministry’s spokesman, Lieutenant General Igor Konashenkov, announced during his daily briefing.
A large number of foreign combatants have reportedly lost their lives fighting for Ukraine. Earlier this week, Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed that Russian forces and the militias of the Donbass republics had eliminated more than 2,000 foreign mercenaries.
As of September 21, 1,000 foreigners remained in the ranks of the Ukrainian military, according to the minister, whereas in April the number was estimated at 3,000. Saturday's strike would leave only 700, by those calculations.
Russian forces also killed more than 200 Ukrainian troops in Nikolayev Region, and almost as many more in Kharkov Region and in the Donetsk People’s Republic, Konashenkov further announced.
The military spokesman also revealed during the briefing that in the vicinity of the village of Sergeyevka, in southeastern Dnepropetrovsk Region, a Russian fighter shot down a Ukrainian MiG-29 that had been “converted to use American HARM anti-radar missiles.”
Zelensky and NATO plan to transform post-war Ukraine into ‘a big Israel’
The NATO-backed Atlantic Council has proposed apartheid Israel as a blueprint for a hyper-militarized Ukraine. The paper was authored by Obama’s former ambassador to Tel Aviv, now an Israeli spy-tech consultant.
Just forty days after Russia’s military campaign began inside Ukraine, Ukrainian President Vlodymyr Zelensky told reporters that in the future, his country would be like “a big Israel.” The following day, one of Israel’s top promoters in the Democratic Party published an op-ed in NATO’s official think tank exploring how that could be executed.
Zelensky made his prediction while speaking to reporters on April 5, rejecting the idea that Kiev would remain neutral in future conflicts between NATO, the European Union, and Russia. According to Zelensky, his country would never be like Switzerland (which coincidentally abandoned its Napoleonera tradition of nonalignment by sanctioning Russia in response to its February invasion).
“We cannot talk about ‘Switzerland of the future,’” the president informed reporters. “But we will definitely become a ‘big Israel’ with its own face.”
For those wondering what a “big Israel” would actually look like, Zelensky quickly elaborated on his disturbing prophecy.
Thanks Jack. And here is just a note on the stats:
This is Turnout of the percentage of eligible voters in the region and NOT the percentage of those voting to become fully accepted into the Russian Federation, which will be posted soon.
When we see smaller percentage of voters voting in Zaporozhye and Kherson regions, this is proof that voting in these regions poses much more risk from retaliation by the Ukro/Euro Nazi regime, fully funded by western nazi puppeteers.
The cleptocrats truly have no borders. Consider the vast numbers of Nazis imported into the west by the intel state at the end of the last world war, and then consider how much of the now disappearing illusion of that comfortable life is influenced directly by the mockingbird media, which is governed only by profit and never by service to the citizens of any country.
Это явка процента имеющих право голоса избирателей в регионе, а НЕ процент тех, кто проголосовал за то, чтобы стать полностью принятыми в Российскую Федерацию, которая будет опубликована в ближайшее время.
Когда мы видим меньший процент избирателей, голосующих в Запорожской и Херсонской областях, это является доказательством того, что голосование в этих регионах представляет гораздо больший риск от возмездия со стороны украинского / евронацистского режима, полностью финансируемого западными нацистскими кукловодами.
Клептократы действительно не имеют границ. Рассмотрим огромное количество нацистов, импортированных на Запад разведывательным государством в конце последней мировой войны, а затем рассмотрим, насколько исчезающая сейчас иллюзия этой комфортной жизни находится под непосредственным влиянием средств массовой информации пересмешников, которые управляются только прибылью, а не служением гражданам какой-либо страны.
There is not much to say as a citizen of my soul and of no real state, except to show these truths, these on the ground truths of the horrors of war. And how insidious the western lies are.....
I just talked to a very, very well informed friend who actually believed the western lies about mass resistance to the reserves being called up, until he talked with me and he read the real facts on what the RFederation calling up reserves means to Russians. I ended our conversation reminding him of all one dominant party of politicians, along with their one-party/uniparty cohorts, and the media have been saying, forever really, but about everything in the last 3 years. Just reverse the narrative, like Masha and everyone I know suggests, and you will arrive at the truth.
25th September 2022 20:29
Hym
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
What is really shocking is how little the average american knows about the corporate-intelligence/military state and how evil, cruel, and inhumane it really is, how deep they have penetrated into every aspect of governmental, corporate influence.
It is as if they forgot about The Gulf of Tonkin lie, the weapons of mass destruction/mass deception that didn't exist before the 2nd Gulf War, and the impossibility of hijackers from the middle east shutting down the entire air defense system on the east coast during nine/eleven, let alone being able to plant explosives in all 3 of those buildings/the asbestos laden twins and bldg.7, irrespective of the advanced, destructive technologies deployed.
If you hadn't expected any of this to happen after all of the shutdowns, the cdc/fda complicity with the pharma poisoning of millions, when all of the cards/favors of corruption were being called in....and if you haven't been expecting any of it...I understand. I understand, as many here on PA and in increasing numbers worldwide do, just how successfully the public has been manipulated. Just like the citizens of the Ukraine allowed the generations of nazis to exist, without massive protest and without a unified front...this country in the west and all of the west itself, is reaping the rewards of its silence.
From a pharmacological view, the entire creation and profit from the shots, is anything but "experimental". Companies that produce poisons know exactly how many will die, who will be injured and who will suffer permanently from their use. Factually speaking I find that we lose the true, hidden intent of the presence of an agenda when we do not scrutinize the words that governments and their propaganda arms use. It transfers from one occurrence to another, almost seamlessly, and knowing this as many more now do, we can often connect the dots that many issues are connected. DARPA is Cia is Moderna, a company that never produced a shot before entering the carnage. Can you smell it now?
There is not one single statistic that the criminal creators did not already accurately predict, plan for and execute. And when a high ranking official, or a highly connected operative goes from one venture or post to a seemingly unrelated assignment, why do so many people miss that it is the criminal, not the crime that matters, the administrative, bureaucratic criminal that adapts the dark agenda from one crime to another.
Knowing this should anyone be surprised to know that it is almost always a governmental intelligence agency intimately, dog of war to dog of war/butt to butt connected with corporate power, directing and profiting from all manner of wars against the health and welfare of all citizens worldwide.
26th September 2022 00:00
Michel Leclerc
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
Quote:
Posted by Hym
Thanks Jack. And here is just a note on the stats:
This is Turnout of the percentage of eligible voters in the region and NOT the percentage of those voting to become fully accepted into the Russian Federation, which will be posted soon.
When we see smaller percentage of voters voting in Zaporozhye and Kherson regions, this is proof that voting in these regions poses much more risk from retaliation by the Ukro/Euro Nazi regime, fully funded by western nazi puppeteers.
The cleptocrats truly have no borders. Consider the vast numbers of Nazis imported into the west by the intel state at the end of the last world war, and then consider how much of the now disappearing illusion of that comfortable life is influenced directly by the mockingbird media, which is governed only by profit and never by service to the citizens of any country.
Это явка процента имеющих право голоса избирателей в регионе, а НЕ процент тех, кто проголосовал за то, чтобы стать полностью принятыми в Российскую Федерацию, которая будет опубликована в ближайшее время.
Когда мы видим меньший процент избирателей, голосующих в Запорожской и Херсонской областях, это является доказательством того, что голосование в этих регионах представляет гораздо больший риск от возмездия со стороны украинского / евронацистского режима, полностью финансируемого западными нацистскими кукловодами.
Клептократы действительно не имеют границ. Рассмотрим огромное количество нацистов, импортированных на Запад разведывательным государством в конце последней мировой войны, а затем рассмотрим, насколько исчезающая сейчас иллюзия этой комфортной жизни находится под непосредственным влиянием средств массовой информации пересмешников, которые управляются только прибылью, а не служением гражданам какой-либо страны.
There is not much to say as a citizen of my soul and of no real state, except to show these truths, these on the ground truths of the horrors of war. And how insidious the western lies are.....
I just talked to a very, very well informed friend who actually believed the western lies about mass resistance to the reserves being called up, until he talked with me and he read the real facts on what the RFederation calling up reserves means to Russians. I ended our conversation reminding him of all one dominant party of politicians, along with their one-party/uniparty cohorts, and the media have been saying, forever really, but about everything in the last 3 years. Just reverse the narrative, like Masha and everyone I know suggests, and you will arrive at the truth.
Thanks Hym for the Russian text! A very good exercice!
Voter turnout in Zaporozhye region exceeds 51% — election chief
According to Galina Katyushchenko, no violations during the voting were reported on thee third day of the referendum
MELITOPOL, September 25. /TASS/. The voter turnout at the referendum in the Zaporozhye Region on joining Russia has reached 51.55% over the past three days, Galina Katyushchenko, chairperson of the regional election commission, told TASS on Sunday.
"According to the data from the polling stations, the voter turnout during three days of the vote hit 51.55%, including the votes cast abroad," Katyushchenko said.
According to Katyushchenko, no violations during the voting were reported on thee third day of the referendum.
She also said that as many as 10,921 people cast their votes at polling stations outside the Zaporozhye region on Sunday. "In all, a total of 31,809 people voted abroad over the three days," she added.
Referendum in DPR can be considered valid under int’l norms — Civic Chamber
The voter turnout exceeded 50%
DONETSK, September 25. /TASS/. The referendum on the accession to Russia in the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) can be recognized as valid as the voter turnout has exceeded 50%, Alexander Kofman, head of the republic’s Civic Chamber, said on Sunday.
"In conformity of international norms, the referendum is recognized as valid when the voter turnout is 50% plus one vote. This threshold was surpassed yesterday," he said, adding that it means that the referendum can be recognized as valid.
According to the Chairman of the DPR Central Election Commission, Vladimir Vysotsky the voter turnout at the referendum in the Donetsk People’s Republic on joining Russia over the past three days reached 77.12%. "Over the past three days hit 77.12%," Vysotsky said.
Referendum on joining Russia recognized as valid in LPR — CEC
The voter turnout currently stands at 76.09%
LUGANSK, September 25. /TASS/. The referendum on the accession to Russia in the Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR) has been recognized as valid, since the voter turnout has exceeded 50%, Yelena Kravchenko, chairperson of the LPR’s Central Election Commission (CEC) said on Sunday.
"High voter turnout is reported from the entire territory on the Lugansk People’s Republic. After three days of voting, the voter turnout exceeded 50% So, the referendum is recognized as valid," she said.
According to Kravchenko, the voter turnout currently stands at 76.09% There are 1,360,768 eligible voters in the republic.
She said that the highest voter turnout was reported from Lugansk, Antratsit, and Krasnodon. "High turnout was also reported from the liberated territories," she said, adding that election commission will resume their work on Monday.
Ukrainian military fires nineteen 152 mm, 155 mm munitions at Donetsk, Makeyevka
According to the mission, the Kiev, Kuibyshev, Kirov and Lenin districts of Donetsk particularly came under attack
DONETSK, September 26. /TASS/. The Ukrainian Armed Forces fired nineteen 152 mm and 155 mm munitions at the cities of Donetsk and Makeyevka in the early hours of Monday, the Donetsk People’s Republic’s (DPR) mission to the Joint Center for Control and Coordination said.
According to the mission, the Kiev, Kuibyshev, Kirov and Lenin districts of Donetsk particularly came under attack.
Deputy chief of the DPR People’s Militia Eduard Basurin said earlier that the Ukrainian Armed Forces had fired over 200 munitions at nine DPR settlements on Sunday.
Donetsk leader Denis Pushilin pointed out on Saturday that the Ukrainian military was heavily shelling Donetsk and other cities in an attempt to disrupt a referendum on joining Russia.