For or Against accepting refugees from Syria??

[Aviator]

I am in opinion that the whole situation is not normal neither natural. It is sophistically planned and orchestrated event with logistics, finances and goals behind.

I agree 100%. The so called wars in Syria, Iraq, Libya etc. have been created from outside. They are part of an agenda running on a much bigger level with the final goal to enslave this planet completely. The huge floods of refugees to Europe are organized to destroy national power and remove strong nation states within Europe.


It is a war created by the cabal against all people of this planet. All other factors like different religions, beliefs, economic status etc. is just used to support conflicts among us.

[Carmody]

Order of operations:

Refugees from Syria: symptom.

Fascists, corporations and oligarchs, hiding in the backdrop ---who displaced them: Primary target and source point.

Lesson: Don't get lost in distractions. After a while you find that the trail of wounded and dying never ends, that the need to bandage wounds never ends.

Final analysis and action point: Go to the reason the wound appears, or you are wasting your time. You have to make a decision to go after the source point ....and move away from walking emotional circles around symptoms.

Observation: No major media ever talks about source points, they only speak of symptoms. If they speak as if they are talking of a given source point ... it is a distraction into their agenda, and it is layered and a partial truth (at best) that fits their agenda. This is the sad tale of such influences and power structures - for thousands of years.

Lesson: Don't read mainstream media, don't listen to mainstream media, and don't watch mainstream media.... it will distract you from fundamentals... into paths that end in the desires and directions of oligarchy.

I personally don't watch their shows ---None of their media, none of their entertainment. Nothing. Nada. Zero.

For almost 20 years now, and my head is 100-200-500% better for it.

One cannot claim their thought processes back ...when allowing such external input into a system which is essentially designed to be a hypnotic input system. A body data intake system... that takes things in subconsciously as a first order premise in design and operation.

Think Your Conscious Brain Directs Your Actions? Think Again

[sunpaw]

I welcome people, and I don't see them as symptoms, terrorists, part of a game, plan or a threat.

I see people who suffer right now, who are kept out, being starved, beaten, tear gassed, killed, men, women, children who walk from one hell through another, to pose a threat because they had the luck to be born at the wrong place, the wrong time, the wrong gender, the wrong age, the wrong physical appearance.
BECAUSE: where they come from terrorists go to or come from.
So even if they somehow make it to a place where they are welcomed or even born there - a lot of people around the world still see them as a threat, a terrorist.

I am aware views differ.
I will continue to welcome, help, share, protect. I feel inspired, at peace and even for my future as old person I see joy and bright.
So I will concentrate on that and continue to have people experience the same.
I did this before all those new people were on the move. If inspiration, peacefulness, happiness are wrong - then I don't know..

If welcoming and changing laws to give people sooner a chance for a normal life, giving them jobs, homes, displaying strong company policies against haters and discrimination is wrong and is bringing 'down' the EU - I am for a split rather than blocking out people and have them still starve, beaten up, tear gassed, sent back to be bombed and killed and continue with 'my life'.

I am grateful, very happy and proud that I live among people who care, help, share, protect.
I don't think kindness and being humane can be pretended nor triggered - so still if its a big trickery I am rather glad I got the opportunity to help and care and wished for everyone to survive and arrive than anything else.
Last year I was worried sick what I would/could do if shtf - and it came clearer I would stay to help people who need help and get help from people who care about me. Which my neighborhood already does. So its no difference where, how someone was born.
I hoped I never had to execute this - because it would mean terrible circumstances happened. However it arrived - and it is like I thought.
A community I like to live in - seeing stepping up like naturally.
So even in case of welcoming people brings war on the doorstep - I am sure we handle that, even the blame.
And by then I at least I know where not to go and what to expect of people.

[Octavusprime]

I feel that any country able to take in Syrian refugees has the responsibility to do so. Especially those countries who have helped to wage war in the middle east. The US has announced plans to take in 10,000 refugees and I know people in the US are freaking out. They fear that it will be used by ISIS terrorist to enter the country. This is valid point but I think the risks outweigh the rewards in this one. Anything that can be done to ensure they are truly in need and not trying to harm us should be explored. It's tough.

This makes me think of WW2 when the US was refusing to take in Jews running from persecution. It wasn't until the last year of the war that we finally started letting in refugees. By that point it was too late.

In the long term I think my country needs to take a more isolationist approach with regards to war. The whole strategy of arming rebels to overthrow governments has always back fired. Military weapons and gear always end up in the wrong hands and get turned on us. Of course that may be part of the plan all along. The people need to fight to rein in their warmongering governments but that is a discussion for a different time.

Cheers,

Octavusprime

[greybeard]

Germany reinstates border controls, scraps concession for Syrians


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/germany-re...2.html#w3E7HwV



Germany is reinstating temporary border controls with immediate effect, Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said Sunday, as the country buckles under pressure from a record influx of refugees.

"The aim of this measure is to stop the current influx to Germany and to return to an orderly process," he said, as the city of Munich recorded an influx of 63,000 asylum seekers in two weeks.

"It is also urgently needed due to security reasons," the minister added.

Additionally, Berlin will no longer allow refugees to pick which European countries should host them, de Maiziere said Sunday, essentially reversing a measure that has sent record numbers of asylum seekers into Europe's top economy.

The asylum seekers must understand that "they cannot chose the states where they are seeking protection," he told reporters.

"Under current European rules, Germany is not the authority responsible for most of the asylum seekers, and the registration process stands for all member states in the future. That means that a member state should not only register but also carry out the asylum process," he added.

Under EU rules, the first country of entry is required to deal with the asylum seeker's request for protection. But Germany had earlier in practice waived the rule for Syrian refugees.

[Ernie Nemeth]

I feel for the refugees. But I also know the agenda. They want a central bank in Syria. It is one of the last countries without one. And they hate Assad - he must be on the wrong side of "the brothers'" little power struggle... Enlilites got Enki and his crowd on the run.

I cannot imagine what life in a war-torn country must be like, but my parents still duck at loud noises seventy years after the big war...it must be hell.

If I was young I would seek asylum too - or if I loved my country I would fight against the evil.

Europe cannot afford these migrants however, not financially or politically. Most of the countries are homogenous states of a single ethnicity. The migrants will disrupt the social order of these countries. They are not the USA or Canada - the mixing states of all ethnic backgrounds.

It is quite a pickle. Can't stop them from arriving, can't send them back, can't afford to keep them...

It again falls to the common man, to accept a little less, to pay a little more and put up with the inconvenience and the social unrest.

Just another dent in the status quo, I guess.

Yes, we have to take them, like it or not. Since we bombed the "Shiite" out of them, we got to take the refugees that we have caused. It is the ethical thing to do after the immoral act of bombing them back to the stone age.

[Shannon]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Germany reinstates border controls, scraps concession for Syrians


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/germany-re...2.html#w3E7HwV



Germany is reinstating temporary border controls with immediate effect, Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said Sunday, as the country buckles under pressure from a record influx of refugees.

"The aim of this measure is to stop the current influx to Germany and to return to an orderly process," he said, as the city of Munich recorded an influx of 63,000 asylum seekers in two weeks.

"It is also urgently needed due to security reasons," the minister added.

Additionally, Berlin will no longer allow refugees to pick which European countries should host them, de Maiziere said Sunday, essentially reversing a measure that has sent record numbers of asylum seekers into Europe's top economy.

The asylum seekers must understand that "they cannot chose the states where they are seeking protection," he told reporters.

"Under current European rules, Germany is not the authority responsible for most of the asylum seekers, and the registration process stands for all member states in the future. That means that a member state should not only register but also carry out the asylum process," he added.

Under EU rules, the first country of entry is required to deal with the asylum seeker's request for protection. But Germany had earlier in practice waived the rule for Syrian refugees.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering how all these people were getting to Germany without already claiming asylum in the country they came thru first.

I also heard that Germany was expecting double by next weekend(pbs report, 40,000 this weekend --numbers are always different I just think "a buttload of people" when i see numbers like these ---40,000,weekend 60,000 week,80,000next weekend) .

So many people, just way too much too fast it seems. Why are they leaving their homes? These 80,000 people plus didn't want to try and defend their home? Their country? What made them all leave like this? Idk. I feel like I'm missing something in the narrative here. As a matter of fact ,I'm sure I am. ...*sigh*

[greybeard]

They are looking for a better life ---isn’t everyone!!!
Cant blame them for that.
Some will be in genuine fear for their lives.
However I doubt the majority are.
Just seems an enormous number for any country to accommodate.

Ch

[Constance]

[QUOTE=Carmody;998602]O
Lesson: Don't get lost in distractions. After a while you find that the trail of wounded and dying never ends, that the need to bandage wounds never ends. [QUOTE]

What you said reminds me of this quote.

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."

Henry David Thoreau

I am not saying that we allow people to suffer, far from it. We need to be able to put a stop to all this suffering as soon as possible.

And you are spot on Carmody.

It really is like a wound that will never stop bleeding out.

I can think of over a hundred ways that everyone on this planet is suffering. My heart just breaks at how people are suffering. Even those who I am closest to are suffering.

I don't read newspapers, watch T.V, or look at mainstream media because it would do my head in. I can't let that happen.

I feel that I have to stay balanced, focused and concentrate on finding what we can all do together both individually and collectively so that we can have lasting peace on earth. We need an answer to the whole overall situation.

I know that different people are doing different things all over the planet to try to change the situation we are in but it is all so compartmentalised and fragmented in much the same way that society is still compartmentalised and fragmented.

I feel that collectively we are so much stronger.

The closest analogy I can think of at the moment is with a piece of rope. The strongest piece of rope is equal to the number of strands that it has.

The more of us that can get together collaboratively on ideas that will help us go in the direction of peace, the better.
Someone wrote a great idea on a post on another thread - Maybe it was Conk? about getting all of the alternative health practitioners together around the world to form a natural health alliance.

Building upon that idea, I'd like to think we could unite all the different groups who are working towards our freedom and do it in a way that no one has done before. It has to be groundbreaking, innovative and under the radar.

Join all the dots together in a picture and you have one big dot!



[QUOTE]Final analysis and action point: Go to the reason the wound appears, or you are wasting your time. You have to make a decision to go after the source point ....and move away from walking emotional circles around symptoms.[QUOTE]

What is your opinion Carmody about what the 'source point' is or have you referred to this in other posts I am not aware of?

[Sungazerer]

It is a interesting development that Corbyn has just been elected as Labour leader. He is very much in favour of accepting refugees and it has been reported that certain members on the right in Labour might vote with the government's 2nd proposal to bomb Syria. Whether it be an escalation within the region on humanitarian grounds or a step closer to a Greater Israel, the election of Corbyn would seem to suit a globalists agenda. I certainly don't think Corbyn is aware of it if this is the case, but at any stage he could be taken out politically on the nuclear issue, the UK is very proud of their battling history. However an awful lot of people are questioning the refugee official story & it might well be that shortly we will be one step ahead of them through a seismic shift in consciousness.

[KiwiElf]

Beware of the Trojan Horse

[Selkie]

This article was written by a Pole, an eyewitness at the Italian-Austrian border, to the behavior of the "refugees",

http://www.rense.com/general96/musrefugees.html

Maybe the Poles are not so prejudiced after all. Can anyone blame them for not wanting people who act like that?

[Ernie Nemeth]

When I hear of someone complaining of these refugees I always immediately agree with their sentiment at first. Then I always broaden my focus to see that it is the way of the west, the way of this society, to crush their rivals utterly and to have no compassion for their plight. I realize that our society uses this meme on our own people as well. There are western poor too - in every city and town in every developed nation on the planet. We have virtually no problem institutionalizing poverty but we have no will to eradicate it - that would cost us all a portion of what little we have already accumulated for ourselves...

The western world imposes itself on the rest of the world, insisting on their rules, on their goals, and on their values. We are all steamrolled into accepting the meme or to be sidelined, marginalized and rendered obsolete, redundant or worthless. Just as in our society, the bottom thirty percent have no credit or savings or any hope at ever attaining any - thirty percent of the population of the planet is in the same boat. No one gets a choice, it is either comply or be left behind.

Is it a wonder then that given the chance to be part of the mad rush of capitalism the down trodden will do anything, accept any hardship, to grasp the brass ring?

And what could be the outcome of such a mass exodus but to lower the income of all people everywhere. We are the frontier of the new third world. A place where politics will bog down to ineffectual partisan bickering and endless minority governments unable to address any issue for fear of losing their small base of supporters or risk the chance to woo others into their ranks. If we have accepted the meme fully and we expect things to continue as before we are doomed. Only an entirely new way of thinking and of being will win the day. Anything short of a radical rethink will only bring disaster.

The world cannot afford the shock and awe of unbridled capitalism any longer. And these refugees are in for a rude awakening...it is not so rosy over here either - and now with them here, it will only make things worse.

The thing that irks me the most though is, that the captains of industry get to walk away with their profits, made on our shoulders, while we are left to pay for the mass immigration of poor people with no means of their own.

[Tangri]

We must look under de-population of the local geography. Recently Turkey has 3 million refugees from Syria, it happened 18 months ago.

Turkey had to supply food, placement, health and education need for those refugees for 18 months now. Western countries and their citizens did not move any of their fingers for a long time.

According to the international law ; Refugees from war zones can not be denied by any country. First arrived country ( Turkey) can not restrict their movement until they chose not to exercise their rights.

German and Sweden made a declaration " who could come till their(German, Sweden) border they will be given citizenship.

It was a bold offer with it's low probability in reality.

But desperation creates stamina and determination. They are moving toward(walking) to German and Sweden.

Mostly They chose Turkey _ Greece root (many of them losing their life to pass sea barrier between Turkey and Greek islands) Then they move Greece's main land , and continue to the north west. Hungary and Poland just a simple root to German.

There is a humanity's test here. Maybe every body will need a sanctuary one day.

Maybe one day Americans are going to look for sanctuary in Canada or Mexico or we all will look sanctuary at south america continent.
Also, It can be occurred for any of European country, in the near future.

Think honestly, what you are going to be asking to others for help, if it was happened to you and your family.

[yuhui]

two very interesting articles from the perspective of astrology:
Refugees: Jupiter-Neptune In Action
"Last week, I did a talk at Aquarius Severn which included a short picture essay. I’ll show it to you here.Remember that Neptune and Jupiter, the planets that promote flow, meet across the mutable Virgo-Pisces axis once a century."
Here Are Refugees
"The current opposition between the mighty rulers of Pisces, Neptune and Jupiter is pulling old rules apart and changing the shape of long-established borders. The sheer weight of human misery bursting out of the Middle East is challenging compassion and dissolving old boundaries. Both these planets tend to magnify events and when they work together we can expect mass experiences. Virgo-Pisces is the axis of healing, of course, but also of service, suffering and sacrifice. Right now they are at their maximum distance, embracing the whole Zodiac."

[Pam]

Posted by Malgorzata (here)
I am posting this as I have seen a tremendous amount of hate and bigotry among Polish people (I am from Poland) concerning the taking in of the Syrian refugees. People there are scared of Islamization, violence and destruction that might come from that. I was shocked to see that almost 90% of population is against taking them in. To be honest, as I told in one of the Polish forums, I am more afraid for the Syrians´ safety in Poland now, than for Polish people being ¨invaded by the destructive Muslims¨.

Now, my own personal opinion is that notwithstanding what might happens, we SHOULD accept them whenever our country´s economic situation allows it, as our primary human responsbility towards another human being is to help. No matter what. We will deal with the consequences later, if any. Now all I see is people in dire need of help. It doesnt matter to me they are Muslims. We cant be driven by fear, which, as we know, is mostly programmed in us by media.

What do YOU think? I respect Avalon Community so I am curious to see what your opinions are.

Corruption has permeated everything to the point that nothing is as it seems. At the very basic level, we should always help those in need, but nothing is that simple anymore.

Majority of so called refugees are not really war refugees. They are mostly economical migrants who seek for advantages of social system and benefits in EU countries.

quote from Pilgrim.


The above quote is an example of this. Maybe I have fallen to the place where our governments would like us all to be, bewildered and confused.


All that I know is that nothing is as it seems. I also know that no one should go hungry, be cold or be in severe pain without assistance from others.

[viscountvlad]

Well! What a lot to read and think about. Here's my take.

Conflict and instability in various nations had been caused by meddling by western powers or as a result of proxy wars over power, money, resources, the usual.

There seem to be extremist groups operating in a the middle east and threatening to spread hate and fear as far as they can. These may be funded by covert ops or be genuinely radicalised Muslims. If you are on the receiving end of bombs and bullets, it doesn't matter that much who paid for them.

As usual, the ordinary people suffer as a result of fighting between corrupt governments and various military movements.

These ordinary people fear for their lives and flee.

They brave many odds to reach places where they think they will be able to prosper. literally risking their lives to cross the sea, in the hope of finding peace. walking thousands of miles and crossing seas, militarised boarders and entering the grand bureaucracy of Europe.

Europe is, for the most part a stable place to live which is why they want to come.

Some opportunistic migrants have joined the refugees because they too feel that they want to live a better life with more opportunities. Who can blame them. Not me. I don't like to suppose I deserve the luxuries or opportunities I have. I don't deserve them more or less than any other human.

So, was this mass movement of people part of a great plan by shadowy cabals? Maybe.

Will ISIS agents infiltrate western countries along with refugees? Maybe. Time will tell.

Will Western governments use terrorism as an excuse for spying on it's citizens? It seems very likely as they do already!

Are there real people driven from their homes and heading to new lands driven by hope? Yes.

Should the wickedness of corrupt powers stop us from doing good?

These refugees and migrants are your brothers and sisters. Most want peace and stability and a chance to prosper.

When a fellow human reaches out we can reach back or we can pull away.

They may be being used as pawns but that is no reason for us to treat them as such. They are human.

The choice is, (as it often is) fear or love.

Fear for your nation, of change, of the different, of challenges to your own philosophy.
or
love for those who are in real need or are seeking opportunities that I have been lucky to have and can't deny another.


The root causes are important and must be addressed, but right now there are fellow humans asking our nations for help. Right now. in my opinion it should be given.

If you believe in such things as dark forces behind the seats of power, what energy do they want spread, to feed on? Fear, divisions, nationalism, hatred, mistrust, chaos. Will you give them a feast or a famine?

I choose love and hope over fear.


Sorry for the long ramble, just wanted to say my piece!

Love to you all.

[Selkie]

One problem I just thought of is that if I give aid to a refugee or refugees, and he/she/they turn out to be terrorists in disguise, the gov't of the United States could come down on me like a ton of bricks, and through no fault of my own I could end up with problems ranging from being put on the no-fly list all the up to and including prison. Even if it was just a simple case of mistaken identity, the same thing could happen. Do I want to risk that? I don't know. Not to mention that many terrorist funding networks use charitable organizations as fronts, AND those fronts are often run by the CIA, etc.

[viscountvlad]

Posted by Selkie (here)
One problem I just thought of is that if I give aid to a refugee or refugees, and he/she/they turn out to be terrorists in disguise, the gov't of the United States could come down on me like a ton of bricks, and through no fault of my own I could end up with problems ranging from being put on the no-fly list all the up to and including prison. Even if it was just a simple case of mistaken identity, the same thing could happen. Do I want to risk that? I don't know. Not to mention that many terrorist funding networks use charitable organizations as fronts, AND those fronts are often run by the CIA, etc.

Fair point, but consider this; there are real people working for charities that are doing good, give to them if you can/ want to. Our financial system means that all the money will trickle to the rich and powerful eventually whether via CIA or terrorist hands. Maybe it can help someone along the way. Use charities who help refugees/migrants, then you aren't implicated directly if that worries you. A genuine act of kindness carries its own energy and it's own value. Just because some people are doing bad doesn't mean we should hesitate to do good, they'll be bad anyway. Up the world's goodness levels! x

[Selkie]

Thank you, Viscountvlad

There are many subtle nuances to be considered when thinking about and discussing this subject, that's for sure.