Closing the Avalon accounts of two long standing members

[PathWalker]

Posted by RunningDeer (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
I personnally think this thread should be closed too before creating further damages.

Me, too.....

Me, too.
With blessings for healing and recovery to Bill.
Leadership is required here.
With hope and determination this drama will strengthen you.

[araucaria]

If anyone feels that this thread is in danger of causing damage, let them write down their thoughts from their limited perspective and then maybe refrain from posting them, as I am doing now. I have just one thought left, an important one I feel, and an attempt to explain to my own satisfaction how the core issue of non-professional healing relates to the breakup – not the private affair, but the public episode in the wake of Christine’s Corey Goode “interview”.

What little I have heard of that conversation fell way short of a professional interviewing technique such as Bill-the-journalist would have at least approximated, and even further short of the professional therapist’s likely approach. The danger of adopting the healer stance with any negative experiencer rather than keeping the necessary distance from both the messenger and the message is actually spelt out very clearly by Corey himself; Christine hears him but fails to heed him and apply the lesson to her own situation. This happens at the 18-minute mark of the first interview, which is as far as I would go just now (I once heard the first 40 minutes of the tape, but this is the first time I’ve actually listened, and this is why).
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post894184
Regarding reptilians and (mantis-type) insectoids, Corey says this:

I don’t want to talk about them, visualize them, or anything. You bring them into your consciousness, you bring yourself into theirs. So don’t become a beacon. Don’t set yourself up as a conscious beacon.

He goes on to talk about people who have the ego to believe they have the strength or protection to override this ground rule when they probably don’t. There are places where some fear to tread, as there is a price to pay for rushing in.

The difficulty even for the professional therapist is maintaining a sufficient level of neutrality and studied disbelief that is not incompatible with doing the research at all. If you are too interested, you are biased and the wrong person for the job; if you are too uninterested for whatever reason, you won’t be doing it anyway.

But there is another difficulty. Supposing we are dealing with intruders from an alternative dimension. They are not supposed to be here. Acknowledging their presence almost amounts to tolerating their presence; and so does denying it. This is because to conceive a problem is to create it. So, even if I say I don’t believe in reptilians, I have already conceptualized and named something I consider non-existent. It is rather like asking someone “When are you going to stop beating your wife?” The one presupposes, along with the existence of a wife, the existence of a beaten wife; with the other, the non-existent reptilians have one non-existent foot in the door. On the other hand, ignoring them is seen as culpably negligent, and increasingly harder anyway owing to the increased frequency of reports and their increasing foot in the door materiality. In such an instance, neither disclosure nor non-disclosure is a workable solution to the problem.

The problem is infectious, because it spreads from those affected to those not affected, while those without the problem are told they are asleep. Take another example: Carl Sagan’s Dragon in the Garage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World (note: quoting Sagan on this does not amount to a blanket acceptance of everything the guy stands for). If you are going to convince me that something like a physically totally undetectable dragon actually exists, then I am going to have to learn some new tricks outside of physicality. But if what you describe to me sounds like a monster, then I won’t want to learn them, even though they might be very valuable to master. That basically is the rationale behind mind control as part of the controllers’ agenda: one is scared off learning highly useful spiritual techniques by imaginary monsters barring the way. Conversely, defeating that controllers’ agenda is gradually being achieved by those increasing numbers who have developed the spiritual techniques enough to see those monsters for what they are: figments of the imagination.

So what do we do with the experiencers who have witnessed such monsters at close quarters going through their entire repertoire of monstrous deeds to the point of actually interfering with their physicality? We obviously cannot tell them they are crazy, which is all too often what they will hear. And yet that is not so very far off the mark: a subject of mind control is by definition not of sound mind in the normal independent meaning of the word. But neither should we be listening with interest to every detail they come up with as if it were an important addition to our body of knowledge on the subject. That would be like believing in the dragon in the garage or listening to a mental patient who thinks he is Napoleon recounting his Russian campaign.

This is where I feel Christine and Karelia have fallen short, albeit from the best of motives; indeed we all are falling short from the best of motives. The only way to deal with such monsters is total disregard for their putative existence, which in turn means treating experiencers not as whistleblowers with an incredibly important message to impart to humanity but as sufferers in need of gentle nursing. They do have an incredibly important message, but as described above, it has nothing to do with the content of their experience.

[Sidney]

I have not posted to this forum in a very long period for personal reasons. But I simply cannot keep quiet regarding this issue.
Simply put. In divorce, nothing is EVER fair, nor equal. There are two sides to every story. With regards to monetary property(including ownership and/or control of an internet forum,....... before, during, and after a marriage and divorce, the grey area far outweighs the black and white. The forum members have no way of knowing all the intimate details of the marriage nor divorce, and it is my personal belief, that the emphasis on the word "intimate" should be considered.

All of this drama unfolded many months ago, and appeared to have been put to rest. Opening up these wounds for exposure at this point in time, being many months passing, and being the holiday season, IMO reflects poor taste, and disregard of fairness to those parties that are banned from the ability to publicly defend themselves(here).

I am not choosing sides. I am stating, my view of this, as an outsider looking in.

I live in a small gossipy town, and my divorce was judged by outsiders who knew not only nothing about me, but knew nothing about my personal circumstances. in short, my personal life, is none of their business, as the details of Bill and Christines personal life is none of anyone elses business.

I was financially devastated by my own divorce and in the end it was because I did not protect myself nor my assets as I should have. Lets all remember this in our personal lives. No marriage is immune.


The forum lives on. Bill lives on. Christine lives on. All three, scarred.

This whole thing reeks of a scandal, deliberately opened up, to spread negativity and unnecessary drama. That is not the true spirit of the purpose of a place like this and I am very much embarrassed for anyone who chooses to keep these energies flowing.

In the spirit of healing, I am wishing everyone here Love, and Peace, and positive energy.

[greybeard]

There is a saying.
"If people knew better they would do better"

That may or may not be appropriate to the thread.

Just one way of looking at decision making and the action following which reaps results---is-- if people were fully aware of the repercussions of their actions would they have done what ever they did?

In retrospect how many of us would have acted in a certain way if we were gifted to see every repercussion to self and all others.
Would we have acted the way we did?
Would we have done it differently?
Would we have done it at all?

Comes back to the opening statement.
"If people knew better they would do better"


Chris

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Sidney (here)

All of this drama unfolded many months ago, and appeared to have been put to rest. Opening up these wounds for exposure at this point in time, being many months passing, and being the holiday season, IMO reflects poor taste, and disregard of fairness to those parties that are banned from the ability to publicly defend themselves(here).

Dear Sidney‚ good to hear from you, and my thanks to you for contributing here.

What can be seen in some areas on this thread is — understandably — that different members will naturally pick out those aspects of a complex backstory, and because of personal identification, assume that those are the most important aspects for others also. That's always well-intentioned, but is also almost always a mistake.

This is nothing do do with a relationship break-up. And, I'm far from 'scarred'. Those who know me well will testify to that immediately. I'm actually in better shape now than I have been for years, with a great deal more energy, proactivity, balance and clarity. All is very well here. What's happened is in many ways a GOOD thing.

(My only regret in the entire affair — and this is true — is that I'd continued to trust Christine to the extent that the idea of changing the locks literally never once occurred to me. That's totally against my nature.

I'd assumed that if she wanted to collect anything, she'd have simply asked. That too, of course, is my own projection on to her... because that's what I'd have done myself. I tend to trust by default.)

To continue! The forum is in good shape, too, having withstood and handled a complex, prolonged and multifaceted attack that started pretty much last November, 2014. Although some of the roots and contributory factors were in place long before, it primarily began with Christine and Claudia's interview with John Lash (who himself is certainly demonically infected), that was never published. Please read here for a few of the details. That entire affair, and what ensured, is way beyond the scope of this thread.

And neither is this about any material loss. Dennis correctly pointed out here

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Bill asked us not to mention the personal theft.

That's true. The mods took the decision to include that, and I stood back from the entire process. I was concerned that what might happen is what indeed has happened (in some instances) — though maybe almost unavoidably, unless members and visitors (please!) read REALLY carefully what's been posted prior, with great care, by a number of people.

Here we see the human condition, and it's maybe a bit of mirror:

• Those who've been betrayed, see a story of betrayal.
• Those who've lost friends, see a story of lost friendship.
• Those who are divorced, see this as the end of a marriage.
• Those who've been stolen from, see a story of a theft.
• Those who've been scarred, see a story in which people are scarred.
• Those who think love is absent, see a story in which no love is there.

But it's about none of those at all.

While those were mentioned (because the first 4 of those 6 things did happen), it's about

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

warning MILABS and other trauma victims about the deception of someone (even if they mean well) declaring themselves a "Healer" and Avalon appearing to sanction, by the "Healer's" association with Avalon, that these trauma victims are in good hands, safe hands, skilled hands. We felt it was - and is - critical to expose the character behind the mask.

[Snoweagle]

I fully support the decision by the moderators in publishing this information. I also wish this thread to remain open.

Deception and betrayal are the cornerstones in any good con. When that is mixed in personal relationships then a conflagration is ensured. As we see by this example.

Mankind has lost it's understanding with Gaia, our mother Earth, by the bastardising of Science by Economics. Healers, who embark with good intent to help others are soon caught in this trap as well. As for the relationship thang, well, comes with the territory, we all have tales to tell.

Christine and Karelia are just two of many out there promising absolution of some kind or another and it always astounded me the support they garnered from their muses. Whilst being lovey dovey helps the relaxation process it also increases susceptibility. People keep being sucked in. I have no axe to grind with either as I chose another path.

Thank you for the update Avalon, Moderators and Bill. I feel your handling of this sensitive and yet profound event has been impecable.

[Sidney]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Sidney (here)

All of this drama unfolded many months ago, and appeared to have been put to rest. Opening up these wounds for exposure at this point in time, being many months passing, and being the holiday season, IMO reflects poor taste, and disregard of fairness to those parties that are banned from the ability to publicly defend themselves(here).

Dear Sidney‚ good to hear from you, and my thanks to you for contributing here.

What can be seen in some areas on this thread is — understandably — that different members will naturally pick out those aspects of a complex backstory, and because of personal identification, assume that those are the most important aspects for others also. That's always well-intentioned, but is also almost always a mistake.

This is nothing do do with a relationship break-up. And, I'm far from 'scarred'. Those who know me well will testify to that immediately. I'm actually in better shape now than I have been for years, with a great deal more energy, proactivity, balance and clarity. All is very well here. What's happened is in many ways a GOOD thing.

(My only regret in the entire affair — and this is true — is that I'd continued to trust Christine to the extent that the idea of changing the locks literally never once occurred to me. That's totally against my nature.

I'd assumed that if she wanted to collect anything, she'd have simply asked. That too, of course, is my own projection on to her... because that's what I'd have done myself. I tend to trust by default.)

To continue! The forum is in good shape, too, having withstood and handled a complex, prolonged and multifaceted attack that started pretty much last November, 2014. Although some of the roots and contributory factors were in place long before, it primarily began with Christine and Claudia's interview with John Lash (who himself is certainly demonically infected), that was never published. Please read here for a few of the details. That entire affair, and what ensured, is way beyond the scope of this thread.

And neither is this about any material loss. Dennis correctly pointed out here

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Bill asked us not to mention the personal theft.

That's true. The mods took the decision to include that, and I stood back from the entire process. I was concerned that what might happen is what indeed has happened (in some instances) — though maybe almost unavoidably, unless members and visitors (please!) read REALLY carefully what has been posted prior, with great care, by a number of people.

Here we see the human condition, and it's maybe a bit of mirror:

• Those who've been betrayed, see a story of betrayal.
• Those who've lost friends, see a story of lost friendship.
• Those who are divorced, see this as the end of a marriage.
• Those who've been stolen from, see a story of a theft.
• Those who have been scarred, see a story in which people are scarred.
• Those who think love is absent, see a story in which no love is there.

But it's about none of those at all.

While those were mentioned (because the first 4 of those 6 things did happen), it's about

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
warning MILABS and other trauma victims about the deception of someone (even if they mean well) declaring themselves a "Healer" and Avalon appearing to sanction, by the "Healer's" association with Avalon, that these trauma victims are in good hands, safe hands, skilled hands. We felt it was - and is - critical to expose the character behind the mask.

Hi Bill, I want to say, that I am happy that you are fortunate enough to go through a personal event and not be scarred by it, however, I want to make clear that a scar in my opinion is not always a negative thing. it is a reminder of past things, that we can avoid in the future. But that is neither here nor there.
I guess, I viewed, that the true purpose of this thread (to warn of who and who not to trust), felt obscured by the insertion of somewhat of a "he said, she said" article of conversation, that might lead a reader to question the merit and/or intent of the original post. If someone is going to be publicly accused of theft of this magnitude, it is just a huge can of worms. And that goes for both parties, the accuser, and the accusee.

With relation to the Milab subject matter, well, I can only say, that any Milab, can not only not trust themselves completely, but should also be aware that ANYONE they confide in, COULD turn on them at any time, especially a spouse or counselor.

The characters behind the masks, can be anyone and anything. Like I said, months ago when SHTF around here, I think the message was out, that trust should never be taken for granted. We are all responsible for our own losses. Pointing the finger is as unflattering to the pointer, as it is to who the finger is pointed at. edit::: someone who does not steal something of monetary value, is just as able or likely to deceive. Credibility simply cannot be measured in this way, because you cannot put a price on spiritual values. Money and trust are two separate categories.

[AriG]

Due to huge time constraints, I haven't been able to keep up with this amazing forum as I would like, let alone the Machiavellian events that take place within, so I have absolutely no idea what has happened except to say that it appears that Bill and Christine have split and that she betrayed his trust. Bill, I am so sorry for any pain you have experienced and wish for you the manifestation of the reality that you desire. For Christine, may you release the fear that drove you to hurt the one you loved and the hope that you will take steps to remediate the damage that you have done (for your own spiritual well being)- "Physician Heal Thyself". In my personal journey I have observed that those who embrace leadership roles rather than seeing them as a burden, probably should not be followed. Leading requires sacrifice and to some degree, suffering, and certainly a sense of responsibility to those who choose to follow. Quite an undertaking. Not for the feint hearted (and yes, I meant feint, not faint). Blessings to you all! I really miss partaking here.

[eagle0027]

For what its worth....
In this situation i feel much compassion for Bill........HOWEVER....I am sure he and most who are part of this (his)site are very aware of,but as i and many have difficulty at times admitting that at some level we all know of or have created all that we are living.


In my interpretation of reality and karma(and there are many)with quite a few readings done have found much peace and personal responsibility in the fact that that i was probably not that nice of person in past lives.What i am percieving in this lifetime as many darn hard lessons make a lot more sence.When now faced with struggles with others this doesnt take long to come to mind.
I would be very interested in Bills explanation of why this has come to pass in his life when he is ready.
Interestingly as well... i am sure he ,being what i would percieve as a very sensitive person and being part of this 3d reality we live in has felt the height of pain equal to the depths of the most beautiful love imaginable.The price of being human???

Much love to Bill and all......Ed

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by eagle0027 (here)
at some level we all know of or have created all that we are living.

The question of whether we create our reality, or our reality created us, is a false dichotomy, in my view.

It's a dichotomy that, in my usual tin-foil hat conspiracy nut job view, is being played on by those who would control us, just as race, religion, gender, nationality, and other apparent dichotomies are being played.

It is a dichotomy that is on abundant display in this thread.

In my view, life is multi-layered, with each layer energized by the ceaseless interplay of apparent opposites, forming the basic elements of higher layers. Half truths, denying the existence or worthiness of one of the opposites at one of those layers, may energize our discussions, but they confound our understanding.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Paul (here)
... life is multi-layered, with each layer energized by the ceaseless interplay of apparent opposites, forming the basic elements of higher layers. .

A multi-dimensional yin yang interpretation?

Animated GIF deleted ... it was driving me nuts ...

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

A multi-dimensional yin yang interpretation?

Yep! As long as you please don't adopt it as your signature.

[eagle0027]

......so who or what creates your reality Paul????or created this situation for whom this thread is about???seems that really its a whole lot of drama surrounding two souls that no longer were to be together for whatever reason.And yea im not opposed to the idea of background mind control.
After a couple of marriages with much pain and drama it is evident that some human stupid part of us cant walk away without this ...pick an excuse...and there are millions from he kicked my dog to she screwed around on me.As well people around wheather it be kids friends karmic group or whatever all play into the bitterness that generally must take place...and why..so we never want each other in our lives again???because probably we chose to be learning with others???
I really dont know...just pray to god that the next person /love i meet will be free of such crazy for the rest of my days

As always...love and respect

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by greybeard (here)
There is a saying.
"If people knew better they would do better"

That may or may not be appropriate to the thread.

Just one way of looking at decision making and the action following which reaps results---is-- if people were fully aware of the repercussions of their actions would they have done what ever they did?

In retrospect how many of us would have acted in a certain way if we were gifted to see every repercussion to self and all others.
Would we have acted the way we did?
Would we have done it differently?
Would we have done it at all?

Comes back to the opening statement.
"If people knew better they would do better"


Chris

Another saying comes to mind ... "hurt people, hurt people" -- Wayne Dyer.

[DeDukshyn]

  
I read about all this a while back ... there is a post here on Avalon that explained this a few months ago ... so this didn't surprise me much. I was slightly surprised by the, what I deemed, slightly excessive explanation on it all. I'm not sure I would have started with that. I might have just closed their accounts. I did notice Karelia appeared to have been still posting relatively recently. Anyway, I wasn't close to either of the two, yet I did enjoy a few great exchanges on the forum with both, I don't have all the details, it's not personal to me, I'm not into drama, so I shall set my sights and sails for new adventures! Life goes on ...

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by eagle0027 (here)
......so who or what creates your reality Paul????

My understanding of all the relevant self-organizing layers that interact with the layers forming me is limited, and my ability to articulate that understanding even more limited. It is well beyond my capacity, and perhaps well beyond the possible, to communicate it here.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

"hurt people, hurt people" -- Wayne Dyer.

Yes, that's pure, simple wisdom, and the real thing, too. I earlier wrote that Sierra's heartfelt post should be framed and hung on the wall. If it was my wall, this would go right next to it.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

"hurt people, hurt people" -- Wayne Dyer.

Yes, that's pure, simple wisdom, and the real thing, too. I earlier wrote that Sierra's heartfelt post should be framed and hung on the wall. If it was my wall, this would go right next to it.

It is something I have to remind myself often in life, and when one accepts it, it really does become this huge truth that changes perspective. Sometime our egos don't want it to be true, we want to feel justified in our resentment, or regret, or pain and sorrow, or whatever; we don't want to realize that fear, pain, negativity, is a communicable disease of the mind. Hurt wants to proliferate. It's up to us as individuals to stop it from spreading past ourselves as best we can. This has been my experiences at least.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
... life is multi-layered, with each layer energized by the ceaseless interplay of apparent opposites, forming the basic elements of higher layers. .

A multi-dimensional yin yang interpretation?

Animated GIF deleted ... it was driving me nuts ...

I thanked your post ... but only after you deleted the GIF .

Little could you know, but your use of the word "multi-dimensional", rather than layers or levels, triggers one of my latent objections to the "new world philosophy" being pressed upon us.

Speaking of the 3rd, 4th, 5th, ... umpteenth dimensions as increasingly refined and esoteric realities, which leave the physical behind at some level (4, 5, 6 ... I don't know which) bugs me.

The multiple layers of existence in my view build on each other, as material objects build on molecules which build on atoms which build on sub-atomic particles. Each layer has its own principles of ordering, but cannot violate the principles of lower layers, and is subject to sometimes profound influence from higher layers. They all exist simultaneously in the same reality, with various dependencies and interactions between layers.

I prefer to use the word "dimension" in the way I used it while studying mathematics: "The least number of independent coordinates required to specify uniquely the points in a space."

I prefer to use the word "layer" or "level" for these partially ordered, self organizing, self perpetuating, persistently stable, internally dynamic, interacting, orderings.

It would not surprise my tin foil hat protected brain to learn that this misuse of the word "dimension" is a deliberate confusion by the bastards in power. Perhaps Miles Mathis would have more insight on this possibility.

I should cease however, before one of the forum moderators calls me out for being off topic.

(Actually, in my view, this is deeply on topic, for I find such fundamental philosophical confusions as one of the roots of our more prolonged and energized conflicts, such as this one,... but I doubt I can make that point successfully here.)

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Paul (here)
I should cease however, before one of the forum moderators calls me out for being off topic.