Closing the Avalon accounts of two long standing members

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Paul (here)
.
As explained below, the moderation team has unanimously decided to close the accounts of two long-standing Avalon members: Christine and Karelia.

We have deliberated on this for much of the last year, with our hearts as well as our heads. It has never been, nor is it now our desire to exhibit any ill-will. However, we can not stand by and consent with our silence. We desire neither to exacerbate the situation nor to exonerate misdeeds. We have taken a year to sort out our thoughts and feelings and create spaces for reflection and understanding.

During this time, an outpouring of Avalon Members and supporters shared with us privately their growing concerns regarding Christine and Karelia. In various off-forum dialogs, Christine and Karelia attempted to sow seeds of distrust against Avalon's founder Bill Ryan, the moderation team, and the general membership at large.

It has always been our hope that after a time, healing and forgiveness would take place, and emotions would calm down enough to move forward to a place of understanding and reason. It has also been our profound hope that Christine would make right her deliberate misdeeds, which include the embezzlement of Avalon Members Donations, and the outright theft of Bill's gold (the remnants of his inheritance). Unfortunately, none of these things have happened, and we are left with no choice but to take action.

It is also absolutely crucial at this time that we address the delicate subject of the health and safety of Milabs, abductees, ritualistic abuse victims, targeted individuals, and other such systematically abused victims.

The Avalon Community WILL NOT be used as a place where such systematically abused victims are "harvested", or otherwise privately cajoled into experimentation with non-professional counseling or unproven healing modalities, or earmarked as targets to further exploit with private agendas great or small. The moderation team feels it is important to add that Project Avalon does not endorse unprofessional or inexperienced psychological counseling of such victims. We encourage members to report any conduct they feel is to the contrary.

Good counselors save lives. Christine and Karelia appear to be talented, spirited individuals - however they are not trained counselors, nor are they qualified to declare themselves "healers" of what are some of the most psychologically complex and challenging abuse victims. These victims need (and deserve) highly-trained trauma/abuse-victim support. It is our hope that Christine and Karelia will take this into consideration as they tread forward on their path. It will not continue at Avalon!

There are many experienced, professionals available who have specific training in this field, and have been working with victims of such systemic abuse for 25+ years. We highly suggest that members take this into consideration when researching potential help. It is our hope that members will use discernment when joining in focus groups and if engaging, engage with caution when experimenting with various healing modalities.

Project Avalon supports dialog between people with many unusual experiences. In fact, we encourage dialog, and we embrace the love, support, and release that such support can provide. In this sense, Project Avalon is a support group, however, we encourage people to be responsible and discerning. We cannot support self-appointed healers - even in cases where the intention is honorable.

We learned much from Christine and Karelia in prior years, and we value the important contributions that they have given Avalon - including many valuable hours on the moderation team, for which we are extremely grateful. However, with the unfortunate changes in this last year, mutual trust and respect have been destroyed. It is time for us to move forward with heavy, but considerate, hearts.

Sincerely, The Project Avalon Moderation Team

Note: This action was made solely by the moderation team. Due to the personal connection, Bill Ryan neither initiated this moderator action, nor influenced our decision. We would also like to add that the moderation team felt it was important to mention the theft of Bill's inheritance. When we showed Bill what we wrote, he did ask us not to mention the theft of his personal property, in this notice of action. We overrode his wish. Though unrelated to this action, we felt that it critically underscored the level and degree of the deception and exposed her true character.

I just actually just found this thread this afternoon and am a bit shocked as I had to read this post several times to actually process the depth of it.

You know I highly respect you Paul, but I do not agree with your judgment (and the judgment of the other moderators) this time. Some things are better left unsaid, especially in a forum type of setting when much of this is VERY personal between you moderators as the two alleged perps, and especially with Bill, and most importantly, especially between Bill and Christine. Some of these details are NOT really any of our business even as members of Avalon in my opinion.

Over-riding Bill's decision to keep this theft quiet???????????? WTF???? that doesn't even make sense....why in the hell would this even be mentioned when Bill requested it not be????? Something seems a little bit "fishy" about this whole thing in my opinion, and especially about the theft of gold. Sheesh, wtf? Christine ripping Bill off? That's hard to believe.....but even the most seemingly innocent can be the most vindictive and devious sometimes. Regardless, for this to be brought to everyone's attention forum style, both Christine and Karelia should of been involved in this thread so both sides of the story could be heard.

But what is done is done and as Truman said, this is now forever on the internet record until we humans or someone or something else destroys the digital record forever.

I'm sorry either way though that this has happened what ever the deep truth may be, it sounds like a very difficult situation regardless for all those in the inner circle who are affected the most.

[dianna]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
.
As explained below, the moderation team has unanimously decided to close the accounts of two long-standing Avalon members: Christine and Karelia.

We have deliberated on this for much of the last year, with our hearts as well as our heads. It has never been, nor is it now our desire to exhibit any ill-will. However, we can not stand by and consent with our silence. We desire neither to exacerbate the situation nor to exonerate misdeeds. We have taken a year to sort out our thoughts and feelings and create spaces for reflection and understanding.

During this time, an outpouring of Avalon Members and supporters shared with us privately their growing concerns regarding Christine and Karelia. In various off-forum dialogs, Christine and Karelia attempted to sow seeds of distrust against Avalon's founder Bill Ryan, the moderation team, and the general membership at large.

It has always been our hope that after a time, healing and forgiveness would take place, and emotions would calm down enough to move forward to a place of understanding and reason. It has also been our profound hope that Christine would make right her deliberate misdeeds, which include the embezzlement of Avalon Members Donations, and the outright theft of Bill's gold (the remnants of his inheritance). Unfortunately, none of these things have happened, and we are left with no choice but to take action.

It is also absolutely crucial at this time that we address the delicate subject of the health and safety of Milabs, abductees, ritualistic abuse victims, targeted individuals, and other such systematically abused victims.

The Avalon Community WILL NOT be used as a place where such systematically abused victims are "harvested", or otherwise privately cajoled into experimentation with non-professional counseling or unproven healing modalities, or earmarked as targets to further exploit with private agendas great or small. The moderation team feels it is important to add that Project Avalon does not endorse unprofessional or inexperienced psychological counseling of such victims. We encourage members to report any conduct they feel is to the contrary.

Good counselors save lives. Christine and Karelia appear to be talented, spirited individuals - however they are not trained counselors, nor are they qualified to declare themselves "healers" of what are some of the most psychologically complex and challenging abuse victims. These victims need (and deserve) highly-trained trauma/abuse-victim support. It is our hope that Christine and Karelia will take this into consideration as they tread forward on their path. It will not continue at Avalon!

There are many experienced, professionals available who have specific training in this field, and have been working with victims of such systemic abuse for 25+ years. We highly suggest that members take this into consideration when researching potential help. It is our hope that members will use discernment when joining in focus groups and if engaging, engage with caution when experimenting with various healing modalities.

Project Avalon supports dialog between people with many unusual experiences. In fact, we encourage dialog, and we embrace the love, support, and release that such support can provide. In this sense, Project Avalon is a support group, however, we encourage people to be responsible and discerning. We cannot support self-appointed healers - even in cases where the intention is honorable.

We learned much from Christine and Karelia in prior years, and we value the important contributions that they have given Avalon - including many valuable hours on the moderation team, for which we are extremely grateful. However, with the unfortunate changes in this last year, mutual trust and respect have been destroyed. It is time for us to move forward with heavy, but considerate, hearts.

Sincerely, The Project Avalon Moderation Team

Note: This action was made solely by the moderation team. Due to the personal connection, Bill Ryan neither initiated this moderator action, nor influenced our decision. We would also like to add that the moderation team felt it was important to mention the theft of Bill's inheritance. When we showed Bill what we wrote, he did ask us not to mention the theft of his personal property, in this notice of action. We overrode his wish. Though unrelated to this action, we felt that it critically underscored the level and degree of the deception and exposed her true character.

I just actually just found this thread this afternoon and am a bit shocked as I had to read this post several times to actually process the depth of it.

You know I highly respect you Paul, but I do not agree with your judgment (and the judgment of the other moderators) this time. Some things are better left unsaid, especially in a forum type of setting when much of this is VERY personal between you moderators as the two alleged perps, and especially with Bill, and most importantly, especially between Bill and Christine. Some of these details are NOT really any of our business even as members of Avalon in my opinion.

Over-riding Bill's decision to keep this theft quiet???????????? WTF???? that doesn't even make sense....why in the hell would this even be mentioned when Bill requested it not be????? Something seems a little bit "fishy" about this whole thing in my opinion, and especially about the theft of gold. Sheesh, wtf? Christine ripping Bill off? That's hard to believe.....but even the most seemingly innocent can be the most vindictive and devious sometimes. Regardless, for this to be brought to everyone's attention forum style, both Christine and Karelia should of been involved in this thread so both sides of the story could be heard.

But what is done is done and as Truman said, this is now forever on the internet record until we humans or someone or something else destroys the digital record forever.

I'm sorry either way though that this has happened what ever the deep truth may be, it sounds like a very difficult situation regardless for all those in the inner circle who are affected the most.

No matter how flat the pancake, there is always two sides ...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0WaoyCPJbdg

[Marin]

For some time I have been watching this thread unfold. It's been a difficult process. What I've seen happen here pains me. Many of the current moderators and the ones that have left are like family to me. We've spent a great deal of time together. There is a long history here for me and when I see the direction things are moving - my heart aches. Yes, mistakes have been made but the question is, how do we move through them? How do we carry ourselves? And the most important piece - what is our intention?

And that leads me to the OP. What was the intention behind bringing private marital information out into the public?

I'm not here to dispute the removal of gold or the legalities associated with what's taken place. That's best left up to Bill and Christine. Privately. What concerns me is why private information is being brought out in this way. As a previous moderator, I would not have agreed to this.

There are always two sides to a story. I'm not here to point fingers or pass judgement. I only ask that we keep private marital matters off a public forum. If you want to bring this out into the open it should be done in a manner where both parties have an opportunity to speak.

There is something else I wanted to share. What I've learned in my time with Christine and Karelia. The beauty we've created while working together. Here, as moderators on Avalon and in our own work together. How we honor each other. How we support each other. Unconditionally. Holding that space. Listening, deeply. Finding words for what we've created isn't easy. And out of those experiences, cultivating the courage to bring our own unique voices to the table. Out to the world. And for that I am truly grateful.

For me, this is not about taking sides - it's about how we move through this together. How we treat the relationships we're in. And I've had many long standing relationships with many of the moderators and members here. It is my intention to move through this honoring those relationships. Standing up when needed but doing that with compassion.

Warmly,
Marin

[onawah]

Could we please know where in the almost 2 hour video Christine begins talking about her experience with Project Avalon? Thanks.

Posted by dianna (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0WaoyCPJbdg

Update: I think it starts at about 1 hour 19 minutes in.
Not to mince words, but I don't feel any more enlightened about what Christine's or Claudia's role were in what happened in Vilcabamba after listening to this video.
I think we'd need an expert remote viewing private detective to get a really subjective perspective, and then it would still be a matter of who you choose to believe.
But this didn't clarify anything, that I could see, it just seemed like a lot of generalizations and avoidance of the issue of what happened to the missing funds, which is probably about the only part of this saga which might actually have potential of being recorded as factual.
Everything else seems to be what happened according to everyone's various perspectives, and that gets to be tedious for outsiders.

[Shannon]

I'm sorry in advance if this hurts anyone's feelings or if I'm out of line. Maybe I shouldn't comment, but the video was posted and I just want to say a few things.

What was the point of that video? I think the women I just watched seemed completely unhinged, Shane could have been a good friend to her and told her that posting this video would make her look ridiculous. But Shane, the spoiler or ruiner, just seemed to revel in the drama so all that crap around 1:14 mark about how there was no ego in her "roll" is bullocks. And Shane just egged on her on.

I'm saddened that a woman of her age and intelligence thought making and posting this video was in any way productive to the resolution of her problems or addressing the issue.

If she didn't steal anything that video would be under a minute. She would be declaring her innocence telling whoever didn't believe her to suck eggs. Instead we got an hour and a half about how there's a curse on her, someone's stealing her light and a bunch of other stuff that has zero to do with donation theft and the taking of bills gold. I noted some deception in a few of her statements and her crying was forced and there were no tears. Just face rubbing.

Maybe I'm just grouchy, I feel like I just had to get that out. I feel kinda bad for her I just don't feel like any of that video was coming from a honest place.

[Callista]

I agree with you Saint Theresa - after about the 25 minute mark the faux emotions started to make me and I lost interest - but I tend to find the victim stance a bit of a yawn at the best of times

[Nat_Lee]

oh!
Woh !!!
Unreal .......
I've been off for a few weeks and when I come back, I see this big Drama.....
I'm disappointed....
I feel sorry for Bill but also for all of us here...
I feel like I'm watching in a private room something I should not watch....
I'm so sorry about all this...
I personally think this should have stayed private...
I send all of you love, including the mods because I think that you will need it....
I have read the first post and 4 others from my friends, but I'll stop here...
This hurt and this is not good...
Love you mods and Bill and all of you...
I'm wishing us, on Avalon, a brighter day...

[greybeard]

Attack is the best form of defence.
It is a teams duty/obligation, as a unit, to defend.

Was there a genuine reason to protect Avalon?
I don't know.

Christine had not posted for quite some time--it might have been better to have let sleeping dogs lie.

There seems to have been an attempt to remove all credibility that Christine had.

I like to know why and that "desire" may not be realised, I also like fairness to be seen and done.
Like Ray i am not into judging--people do as best they can.
I agree with his recent post.

Chris

Ps I think Avalon has to be seen to have compassion and be scrupulously fair.

[Finefeather]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Ps I think Avalon has to be seen to have compassion and be scrupulously fair.

Yes... very well said...

I would go even further to say that Avalon MUST show compassion and fairness... especially in the non public arena... else it is practicing hypocrisy.

The biggest problem in my view is the public view... where hypocrisy can be clearly seen when at the top of every page of Avalon in big is the motto..."where science and spirituality meet"

Members who fail to stand up for the rights of all Beings should consider broadening their life view to include others outside of this little place they might deem as the holy grail of knowledge.

It's not ok to only be a saint when we're inside the confines of Avalon... when the real work in our life is inside the heart and next to those we meet and live with and love.

Take care
Ray

[Mike Gorman]

Posted by Paul (here)
.
As explained below, the moderation team has unanimously decided to close the accounts of two long-standing Avalon members: Christine and Karelia.

We have deliberated on this for much of the last year, with our hearts as well as our heads. It has never been, nor is it now our desire to exhibit any ill-will. However, we can not stand by and consent with our silence. We desire neither to exacerbate the situation nor to exonerate misdeeds. We have taken a year to sort out our thoughts and feelings and create spaces for reflection and understanding.

During this time, an outpouring of Avalon Members and supporters shared with us privately their growing concerns regarding Christine and Karelia. In various off-forum dialogs, Christine and Karelia attempted to sow seeds of distrust against Avalon's founder Bill Ryan, the moderation team, and the general membership at large.

It has always been our hope that after a time, healing and forgiveness would take place, and emotions would calm down enough to move forward to a place of understanding and reason. It has also been our profound hope that Christine would make right her deliberate misdeeds, which include the embezzlement of Avalon Members Donations, and the outright theft of Bill's gold (the remnants of his inheritance). Unfortunately, none of these things have happened, and we are left with no choice but to take action.

It is also absolutely crucial at this time that we address the delicate subject of the health and safety of Milabs, abductees, ritualistic abuse victims, targeted individuals, and other such systematically abused victims.

The Avalon Community WILL NOT be used as a place where such systematically abused victims are "harvested", or otherwise privately cajoled into experimentation with non-professional counseling or unproven healing modalities, or earmarked as targets to further exploit with private agendas great or small. The moderation team feels it is important to add that Project Avalon does not endorse unprofessional or inexperienced psychological counseling of such victims. We encourage members to report any conduct they feel is to the contrary.

Good counselors save lives. Christine and Karelia appear to be talented, spirited individuals - however they are not trained counselors, nor are they qualified to declare themselves "healers" of what are some of the most psychologically complex and challenging abuse victims. These victims need (and deserve) highly-trained trauma/abuse-victim support. It is our hope that Christine and Karelia will take this into consideration as they tread forward on their path. It will not continue at Avalon!

There are many experienced, professionals available who have specific training in this field, and have been working with victims of such systemic abuse for 25+ years. We highly suggest that members take this into consideration when researching potential help. It is our hope that members will use discernment when joining in focus groups and if engaging, engage with caution when experimenting with various healing modalities.

Project Avalon supports dialog between people with many unusual experiences. In fact, we encourage dialog, and we embrace the love, support, and release that such support can provide. In this sense, Project Avalon is a support group, however, we encourage people to be responsible and discerning. We cannot support self-appointed healers - even in cases where the intention is honorable.

We learned much from Christine and Karelia in prior years, and we value the important contributions that they have given Avalon - including many valuable hours on the moderation team, for which we are extremely grateful. However, with the unfortunate changes in this last year, mutual trust and respect have been destroyed. It is time for us to move forward with heavy, but considerate, hearts.

Sincerely, The Project Avalon Moderation Team

Note: This action was made solely by the moderation team. Due to the personal connection, Bill Ryan neither initiated this moderator action, nor influenced our decision. We would also like to add that the moderation team felt it was important to mention the theft of Bill's inheritance. When we showed Bill what we wrote, he did ask us not to mention the theft of his personal property, in this notice of action. We overrode his wish. Though unrelated to this action, we felt that it critically underscored the level and degree of the deception and exposed her true character.

This is a side to Avalon that i am blissfully unaware - relationships can be a thorny path and people we think we know can reveal sides to them we are completely unprepared to meet! Anyway, thanks for the revealing, I am not directly involved, I wish all well and I always hope for the best - sometimes that is not enough and you have to be canny like a fox.
Cheers

[sheme]

It is all so sad this- people searching for love- desperate for contact- not prepared to let go- longing for acknowledgement- receiving perceived rejection- clumsily creating connection with negativity -as that is all that they can reach now- we have all been there.. love and blessings peeps.

[SilentFeathers]

I think most things have been said on this issue and it would just be best to let it go and allow this thread to become lost and buried like the many other hundreds if not thousand are on this forum. Bill and Christine I'm sure will somehow get through what they must and the moderators I'm sure have other issues to be concerned about and to focus on.

We, including myself, posting in this thread are only keeping it fed, alive, and active....this is my last post here.

What's done is done, so be it.....

[Mutchie]

I AGREE THIS THREAD SHOULD BE CLOSED ....No good can from he said/she said and everyone putting in their views

I read some of the pdf & it looks like your opening a can of worms.... She has an answer for everything.. some answers even make sense.

But at the end of the day " I WASN'T THERE" ... She says due to her being married there was NO THEFT ... PA donations went to her account for ages before the split etc etc .

She claims money was sent to Bill ...The only end result to reading all info from both partys is you end up having to CHOOSE A SIDE

I shouldn't even be passing comment but once you start you get drawn in ... its a HARD life people.

[Flash]

yes, for all kinds of reasons, this thread should be closed (my third mention of this), and should have been for long, in fact, in my opinion, it should not have been started (not saying here that a warning about being therapeutized by unprofessionals or untrained is not ok, on the contrary)

This thread is bringing in negative énergies that are not useful to anybody.

Posted by Mutchie (here)
I AGREE THIS THREAD SHOULD BE CLOSED ....No good can from he said/she said and everyone putting in their views

I read some of the pdf & it looks like your opening a can of worms.... She has an answer for everything.. some answers even make sense.

But at the end of the day " I WASN'T THERE" ... She says due to her being married there was NO THEFT ... PA donations went to her account for ages before the split etc etc .

She claims money was sent to Bill ...The only end result to reading all info from both partys is you end up having to CHOOSE A SIDE

I shouldn't even be passing comment but once you start you get drawn in ... its a HARD life people.

[Kristin]

We have been left much to ponder in our own hearts and in others. Thank you everyone for issuing your opinions, though we are all different and may not agree, one thing that I feel is lovely to note is that what people are fighting for on all sides of perspective is based in a desire for truth and fairness. This is a good thing and shows all of our hearts are all indeed in the right place.

I wanted to express a desire for all parties involved and connected to heal.

We are now closing this discussion on the public forum.

From the Heart,
Kristin

===

P.S. -- I (Paul) moved some of the posts made earlier today on this thread to the forum private thread Split posts from the "Closing Avalon accounts" thread. The moved posts were distracting from the original and primary purpose that this thread has had all along.

Our purpose was and remains to sound a note of caution to those who might consider our appreciation for Christine's many and valued contributions to this forum to be an endorsement of her efforts to counsel systemically abused victims. -- Paul.