Do ETs exist?

[kemo]

Posted by Gerald Paris (here)

a much needed perspective.

No it isn’t. It’s the same shtick from the same poster from whom I’m quite sure we’ve had all this before. It’s a completely theoretical point of view against a mountain of evidence from abductees/contactees, researchers and whistleblowers. I’d advise PA members not to waste their time responding because you’d be banging your head against a brick wall. One thing I can’t stand is the unbearable smugness of guys like this. As well as being a theoretical physicist he’s also an expert on the psychology of the ETs which he claims don’t exist. We don’t need silly analogies about driving motor cars thank you. FTL does not mean travelling in the physical universe. Ben Rich said all points in space and time connected – and he should have known. Makes sense to me. If we had it sure as hell we’d be doing exactly that in a machine with necessary life support and equipment. David Jacobs makes the very telling point from his hypnotic regressions of abductees that ET craft are designed for human subjects. Why? We don’t know. And btw it may be that our notions of ET may be influenced by popular media but in a huge variety of ways and as I recall it is said that Gene Roddenbury based Star Trek partly on channelled information so it may be a ‘chicken and egg’ scenario as to whether our ideas of what ET is like were deliberately implanted. However, this is not an argument. Anyway, I’m out of this thread. Can’t be arsed. Guy's just having a laugh.

[ozmirage]

The "real" Close Encounter - - -

2001 : A Space Odyssey
[Spoiler Alert] One of the best explanations as to why “2001" is so inscrutable may be due to what one reviewer (lost the link) postulated.

... How would you feel if you met an actual extraterrestrial intelligence that had absolutely no referential connection to anything remotely human? It could not speak nor understand what you were communicating. Would you feel bewildered, confused, upset, and frustrated?

If this was Kubrick’s intention, to give the audience a visceral experience of meeting a non-human intelligence, the masses who came out of the movie bewildered and confused was proof he succeeded.

Which may explain why he refused to explain what the movie “really” meant. To end your confusion would confound the desired effect.

...
Our encounters with truly alien beings may well leave us bewildered, confused, upset, and frustrated.

[KiwiElf]

Thank you for adding this to the conversation. a much needed perspective.

Much needed by whom? The FE Society or people living under a rock?

[Agape]

Posted by indigopete (here)

Posted by Agape (here)
Your idea of 'quantum universe' where everyone lives eternally disconnected from everyone else is a poster child of stagnating version of Einsteins relativity theory that itself has numberless implications and applications

With respect, you seem to have misinterpreted my view.

I wasn't suggesting we were "disconnected" other than physically for an infinitesimally small period of time. Compare the amount of time that any given individual is alive to the amount of time they are not. It's a split second in the overall scheme of things.

The idea that they would attempt physical interstellar travel in that instant is what I'm saying is nonsensical. It just isn't a reasonable assumption to make when put into an appropriate perspective (and assumptions are all we have when interpreting the UFO phenomenon).

There are other ways of looking at this which can possibly reconcile a lot of apparently disparate perspectives.

For example, I've often speculated that dream states or meditative states actually involve some aspect of inter-dimensional travel. Or, conversely, that our thoughts are not as autonomous as they appear and could actually be expressions of other beings that we "transduce" into recognised archetypes.

An interesting parallel with mainstream science is that if that were to be true it may explain the sense of time speeding up or slowing down. For example when we wake up from a deep sleep, time seems to have passed almost instantaneously since we were last awake and if our "souls" were in fact travelling at or near lightspeed that is exactly what Einstein's theories say would happen. You'd return to base thinking barely a second had passed.

I don't mean to diminish the value of your own experiences which have clearly had a profound impact on your view of reality, but at the same time they are subjective. They are not "evidence" of interstellar travel that can carry weight with anyone but yourself. Thats what I meant by anecdotal accounts.

Sorry again but not me .. you are ..or seem to be misinterpreting peoples experiences as 'subjective' , simply because you've never researched the whole cases and the evidence trail .

Please notice , I'm not attacking your views either, just saying .. yours is ( or maybe ) the hearsay .

From the only encounter I ever gave a real value ( vis the Bodhgaya ET Event Report ) and reported and that's how I found myself to be part of this project/forum and this present moment ,

I can say NO, there's sky difference between any dream, vision, lucid dream , subjective experience .. I had many of those in my life too and so did other people ..and what happens if you ( by any chance ) happen to experience encounter with an ET.

I'm searching for words really and would love to tell you the difference but ... I fear you may not be quite open to the idea . And, I'm not to arguments at all.

1. The 'time of the event' is substantial . If something 'happens' in split of human second then it is, most probably human perception/dream.
It's the 'neuronal speed' so to say, the speed your neural synapses connect and talk to each other by thousands, each nano sec.
Get trained in observing your own mind ( far far better than watching TV, I'm telling you ) and you will see what the neuroscientist can see in their lab .
The way brain keeps talking . Imagining .

I do quite condone the opinion that 99.9% of 'experiences' fall into that category ..

but the remaining 0,01% is something you have no idea what and how it happens because it never happened to you or someone you know.
It's not 'like OBE'. It's not like NDE. It's not like anything else .

The time is substantial. ET encounters happen in our time, their time and in proportional spacetime 'collision' in between ,
so they do last an amount of time that you can discern and calculate .

More than less , the time tends to be 'clearly defined' rather than just 'blending ' to your ordinary version of reality . That's NOT how it happens .
There's 'from' and 'to' . You likely know precisely when it starts and when it ended .

Check with any abductee/contactee people and if they're not able to define the contact in time-space settings they may be just 'speaking in tongues' .

2. There's an amount of intelligence , information , you get during the ET contact experience you would never get/hear/see otherwise.
Not from anyone in this world . Even if you may not be able to reproduce or use that information immediately you still know what it is, it's been given to you and its value.

Again, if people tell you they have 'experiences' and it's being some sort of 'usual stuff' , it's not it. They ARE dreaming about it because it's what we're all capable of,
dreaming and imagining . Dreams are rarely 'news' .
They're mostly 'the old stuff' .
When people say 'talking to ETs' about light&love, with most probability it is their 'higher mind chat' .

IF it's ETs, and they DO want to make themselves known , the communication may be so highly unusual that you either 'back up' and forget it or remember it for the rest of your life .
They aren't 'like humans' . They 'aren't' made of your dream stuff . I'm saying this with responsibility to the broader audience and after i've done much research/observation of what's going on in the alternative communities and people reporting experiences all the time. So for the benefit of the general reader ..

stop imagining . ETs don't care you're imagining or not.

3. You have no choice than to keep your feet on the ground so to say . It's a widespread and general misunderstanding that ET encounters are somehow 'spiritual' , 'mystical' and therefor 'fascinating' .
No, it's humans who are 'spiritual' , 'mystical' and 'fascinating' .

IF you happen to have an encounter with an ET, you're most probably trying to take hold of reality with the strongest grip possible, even subconsciously , take hold of reality . You'll be more awake than you're now .

People 'being spiritual' thinking that's how ETs are really don't know what's the difference.
As human beings .. we are also 'natural ETs' ( i have to agree with Pete here ) and we're very spiritual. We can make up for all of that 'space stuff' . Yes. But ..

that's not how any such encounter is, fyi.

4. They do leave traces and do change human timeline , unlike the speculation goes . Something , if not everything will change profoundly from the time of the encounter .

5. Do your own maths. There is usually .. lots of maths to do . No maths, no ETs.

If it's 'simple' it may have been 'your dream' . Any ET contact experience is bound to be indefinitely complicated and will leave you in shock or in awe for many years to come ,
with data you can't share with most humans .

If you're not careful enough it may also kill you that's how confusing it can get.


P.S. : There are ways how to 'induce' or 'introduce' the ET reality to other sensitive humans but not everyone are so receptive, the force ( even intelligence is a force ) is not inexhaustible and it, generally works only in real time as well .

Again, don't get 'it' confused with peoples shamanic visions , psycho-spiritual powers and experiences and 'all the other stuff' .

It's something very rare . I'm sorry that i can't actually show you this way .


That's from my side of things =>

[KiwiElf]

Methodology of the Condon Report and skeptics such as Phillip Klass:

Of all the evidence available, choose the 10% which is most easily explainable and base your entire report and conclusions on that. Disregard the other 90% of evidence to the contrary - it "doesn't exist".

[indigopete]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Methodology of the Condon Report and skeptics such as Phillip Klass:

Of all the evidence available, choose the 10% which is most easily explainable and base your entire report and conclusions on that. Disregard the other 90% of evidence to the contrary - it "doesn't exist".

Abduction reports and accounts of encounters such as that of Agape are interesting and profound, but they're not evidence of beings having travelled here from lightyears away. That is a massive assumption - nothing else. (IMO).

There are 7 Billion people on this planet. That is a lot of people. Each one with a distinct, totally unique experience and interpretation of their reality. Maybe thats something people should reflect on before jumping to lazy conclusions that happen to comply with the default narrative for unexplained events.

[KiwiElf]

I can't "prove" the Eiffel tower exists, or the Sun will come up tomorrow either ... but I "know" it does and will

[indigopete]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
I can't "prove" the Eiffel tower exists, or the Sun will come up tomorrow either ... but I "know" it does and will

You'd find rather more consensus on that than you would on the other thing

[KiwiElf]

You'd find rather more consensus on that than you would on the other thing

*BINGO* - What would I find?, Eyewitness accounts, maps and photographs and expert opinions & statements? Sounds like a pretty familiar concensus for "the other thing"? . Let's face it - that isn't proof if I never see it for myself. It's just "evidence"... until I do. If you don't look, you won't "see".

People who only look at black & white, yes & no absolutist answers will never find them. There is no single answer to anything.

IMO, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had it right when he said,

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

Guess that depends on the definition of what's impossible?

[Justplain]

Indigopete, you sound like a flat earth guy, no photograghs of a round earth count because they could be doctored, astronaut testimony doesnt count cuz its subjective, etc.

Did you know you've never seen a box? Only a side or two at a time. You assume its a box from memory experience.

There is no experiment you can do from within yourself that proves you exist.

Clifford Stone psychically connected with ET crash survivors. He knew they came from across the stars.

Believe what you want, Pete, your arguments for your position are pretensious to me, like you 'know' ftl travel is not possible. I choose to beleive those who have more credibility than you.

[indigopete]

Posted by Justplain (here)
Indigopete, you sound like a flat earth guy, no photograghs of a round earth count because they could be doctored

I'm sorry to labour this point, but we don't have photographs of any "round earth". Testimonies of people who say they had "psychic connections to ET crash survivors" are meaningless, other than by way of allusory reference.

That in no way, shape or form equates to a photograph of a "round earth".

We've just lived through an entire century of essentially mass hypnosis by media. We know people can be convinced of almost anything. Stick them up on a stage and tell them they're eating an apple when it's actually an onion, send them to war to massacre anonymous individuals with whom they've absolutely no disagreement, torch themselves to death in the name of imaginary idols - you name it.

There is clearly some genuine phenomenon going on with the UFO/abductee stuff. It has without doubt resulted in everything from widespread intrigue to genuine distress amongst victims. But sticking our heads in the sand and religiously asserting it's aliens from lightyears away when thats probably the least likely cause is just giving cover to the real nature of these events.

I don't claim to know what that is but I think I have a pretty good idea what it isn't and nothing that's been presented here or anywhere else has offered up anything to change that view. When something is not fully understood it's always easy to attribute its nature to something else thats equally badly understood. While I respect those who genuinely feel they've encountered beings from lightyears away and do not wish to patronise them or belittle their experiences, thats what's going on here IMO.

I just came to the conclusion in the last couple of years that it's a false agenda who's bluff must be called for there to be any progress in understanding its true nature.

[Flowerpunkchip]

Just throwing this in the mix
A few of my favourite UFO quotes

"Of course flying saucers are real -- and they are interplanetary." - Air Chief Marshall Lord Dowding, former head of Royal Air Force during World War II; August 1954


Scott Carpenter Astronaut -
“At no time, when the astronauts were in space were they alone: there was a constant surveillance by UFOs.”


“There is abundant evidence that we are being contacted, that civilizations have been monitoring us for a very long time. That their appearance is bizarre from any type of traditional materialistic western point of view. That these visitors use the technologies of consciousness, they use toroids, they use co-rotating magnetic disks for their propulsion systems, that seems to be a common denominator of the UFO phenomenon.” – Dr. Brian O’Leary, Former NASA Astronaut and Princeton Physics Professor

"I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth." - President Harry S. Truman, Press conference, Washington DC, April 4, 1950

"I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object. I was at about 10,000 feet on a nice, bright, sunny afternoon. I thought the object was a kite, then I realized that no kite is going to fly that high. As I got closer it looked like a weather balloon, gray and about three feet in diameter. But as soon as I got behind the darn thing it didn't look like a balloon anymore. It looked like a saucer, a disk. About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going away from me , and there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour. I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off. It pulled about a 45 degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared."
Donald "Deke" Slayon, NASA Mercury Astronaut

"It is my thesis that flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from another solar system. I think that they possibly are manned by intelligent observers who are members of a race that may have been investigating our earth for centuries. I think that they possibly have been sent out to conduct systematic, long-range investigations, first of men, animals, vegetation, and more recently of atomic centers, armaments and centers of armament production.
These objects are conceived and directed by intelligent beings of a very high order. They probably do not originate in our solar system, perhaps not even in our galaxy."
Dr. Hermann Oberth Army Ballistic Missile Agency and later NASA, 1954

"I've been convinced for a long time that the flying saucers are real and interplanetary. In other words, we are being watched by beings from outer space."
Albert M. Chop, Deputy Public Relations Director, NASA former USAF spokesman for Project Blue Book.

[shaberon]

Some of this is getting a little snide.

As someone kind of "on the fence" about it, that thwarts my curiosity. I'm in the odd position of believing that all worlds are inhabited, but not by physical beings. Just statistically speaking, I'd give it the benefit of the doubt that there might be someone physical in the 10-20 light year range, perhaps on a few of the observed "Goldilocks" planets--or maybe they are so weird, like Lovecraft's "Fungi from Yuggoth" (Pluto) that the "Goldilocks" factor itself is not necessary.

I'm pretty hesitant about most things saying they travel to our planet.

The vernacular that has gone around for years about visitors, has not prompted SETI or any large mainstream body to come out and say "that's exactly right". Sure, one can surmise they're paid not to do that. But it basically takes repeatable measurements to establish physical existence; and that usually has to pass a lot of peer review. Black holes were able to do that out of a theory, there weren't a bunch of stories about them, waiting for verification. Lots of things that were merely ideas turned out to be valid. But even though we have Presidents making suggestive statements, we don't have many repeatable measurements.

[Sunny-side-up]

Just pop'd onto to your post, haven't read all of it yet, but first thing that I want to confirm is!

Are you talking about Aliens' or ET's you do know that they are total different!

and if one is possible the other is also I.E if breakaway/ancient humans can become beings from other planet/s and so reach other planets then so can Aliens that did not originate from 'Mother-Earth'

Rambling there, should wake up first before I type

Things truly not what you might think (Think) they are here (Here) on Earth. Reality ?

As for FTL travel, well there is the equations and now hidden work of many a great math/physicist of the 20' 30 etc that show it is possible. Things like the 'Jump-Chair' technology is obtainable. Said technology gets around the need for speed (speed-distance in our programmed mind is just a constraint jailer)

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by kemo (here)

FTL does not mean travelling in the physical universe. Ben Rich said all points in space and time are connected – and he should have known.

Yep. Here's what he said, on record, or witnessed by close associates:







I'm not going to enter into a debate on this subject with someone who seems to have a rigid belief system (of denial)... but some of the points here are interesting and are worth digging into a little deeper.

1) FTL travel ('travel' meant in the loosest sense) seems to be possible. Any intellectually rigorous denier would need to explain away Ben Rich's comments above.

I fully agree that he was unlikely to have been talking about movement in space in the conventional sense. He's likely to have meant that there's technology that enables one to reach a distant point faster than light can.

2) The 'ETs vs Aliens' semantics may be important. Non-human, apparently physical beings, seem to exist. I've seen one with my own eyes. Whether it originated from another planet or not, I'm unable to know. But it was absolutely physically real.

If I see a burglar in my house, and have not been asleep, drinking, or taking drugs, that's admissible (and important) testimony in court. If I see a non-human being in my house, that testimony should be treated with exactly the same credence and respect. It's simply telling the truth as a witness.

It's unkind (at best) to ridicule, or appear to ridicule, those extremely profound and life-changing experiences.

3) There do seem to be many (and 'many' may be a gross understatement!) planets out there which could support life as we know it. 'Out there' is an almost unimaginably huge place.

To hold that this is the only planet among probable billions that's developed intelligent life is to stretch the Copernican Principle to breaking point (in my strong opinion), and increasingly seems to be intellectually indefensible. Most honest scientists these days agree.

So we have the following logic chain:

1. It's statistically highly probable (maybe even nearly certain) that intelligent life has developed on other planets, somewhere out there.
2. It seems to be possible to arrive at distant points faster than light can. Besides Ben Rich's statements above, there are multiple statements from other credible 'insiders' to the same effect.
3. If we've discovered this technology, then other races, thousands or even millions of years more advanced than us, almost certainly have as well.
4. There's overwhelming circumstantial evidence (thousands of sightings and experiences from reliable, stable witnesses) that non-human beings (and things that seem like craft) exist.
5. Moreover, there are numerous government documents, attesting to this apparent ET and UFO reality, that those who are experts in the field agree are almost 100% certain to be genuine. Some of them can be viewed here.

Based on that logic, I'd contend that any genuinely open-minded and intelligent person would conclude that the answer to the question Do ETs exist? would be almost certainly Yes.

~~~

I'll now leave this discussion! It has all the hallmarks of going nowhere fast (and there's a joke in there somewhere...) apart from presenting the opportunity to share some interesting facts.

[indigopete]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I'm not going to enter into a debate on this subject...

I think you just did :-)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
...with someone who seems to have a rigid belief system (of denial)

Indeed, but there’s not much point in replacing a “rigid belief system of denial” with a “rigid belief system of acceptance” based on 100% 3rd party testimony and 0% first hand experience.

Contrary to what you’re alluding to, Bill, testimony that someone got burgled the night before should not necessarily be treated the same as testimony that physical beings carry out interstellar travel. One has mass experiential endorsement, the other doesn’t. One is an unambiguous, well understood phenomenon, the other is highly ambiguous, subjective and poorly understood.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
1) FTL travel ('travel' meant in the loosest sense) seems to be possible. Any intellectually rigorous denier would need to explain away Ben Rich's comments above

You surely can’t be serious. What is “intellectually rigerous” about accepting a 2nd hand verbal testimony at face value ?

All Ben Rich has said is “hey there’s this great technology but we can’t show you it and don’t even bother trying to discover it because you’re wasting your time”. There’s nothing there that needs explaining by anyone other than Ben himself.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
It seems to be possible to arrive at distant points faster than light can. Besides Ben Rich's statements above, there are multiple statements from other credible 'insiders' to the same effect

I think I already accepted this fact and indeed promoted it.

My only point of contention with the “UFO” narrative is what the mechanism is for “interstellar travel”. I posited that we arrive in biological vehicles, not technological ones. That this mode of travel is used by everyone, all the time - not some elite few who have access to government programmes.

It’s in that context - not that of ‘belief system’ - that I’ve come to the conclusion that some of assumptions associated with the UFO agenda are bogus and in fact serve to deny people an indigenous understanding of their own existence. It also potentially serves as a decoy from appraising the genuine nature of the events so called “abductees” are experiencing. Obviously, as you have pointed out, these are my own opinions and I don’t claim to have a monopoly on the truth, but I think they are reasonable opinions to hold in view of the ambiguous origin of the whole saga.

[Agape]

For clarification , I'd like to add point =6= to what I've posted above yesterday,
as well , with hope it explains something.

6. Any truly advanced intelligence ( such as the ETIs we're discussing here ) who are capable of space travel - and I'm asserting this from my own first hand account , again, not speculating - had to surpass the point in their technological evolution when they eliminated most of 'accidental errors' ( you can't accommodate large numbers of errors if travelling real far , anyway ).
Therefor .. they do not require ( either as biological entities or their technologies ) large number of repetitions, repetitive behaviours and re-feeding .

The reason why we do require and rely on repetitions and repetitive patterns in human world is precisely , our mortality and number of biological 'errors' we contain, display and encounter .

The meaning of so called 'rigorous' human science is based on 'repeated patterns' and experiments for the same fact .
It does not mean that 'anomalies' do not exist , exceptions only seem to 'confirm' - by standing contrary to the repeated patterns , no lab experiment even if proven successful and valid on one side of matter is supported by 100% evidence.
100% evidence does not EXIST on Earth, as natural phenomenon - get used to the fact and get familiar with Heisenberg uncertainty principle ,
from biological perspective , there are no 'two leaves' of a same genus of a plant that would be morphologically identical. There are no twins that ARE completely the same no matter how close they look .
If nature does not like to repeat itself .. advanced intelligent life much less so .

So in terms of 'rigorous human science' we are used to rely TOO MUCH on repetitive patterns .
Ask any human scientist to explain an anomaly ( of any sort ) and the first thing he/she will probably do - reminding himself to be 'the correct person'- is they won't start 'to think' about what the solution could be
but they will search for any other 'documented example' from their memory/history that would help to explain an anomaly .
That process is considered 'rigorous' but ..over the ages CAN go also considerably wrong.

Just because something is 'similar' in its appearance it does not mean it's similar in principle.

Many judicial mistakes were committed basing on similarity of cases where investigative data were overlooked .

In lay terms it's called 'cleaning the thing out of your tables' because it poses extra work .

Now .. of ET encounters and the pattern observed .. from what I do consider for real ,
they do not repeat themselves 'a lot' .

I do consider suggestions such as 'millions people abducted every year' and 'earth invaded by aliens' as grossly exaggerated.
No really advanced civilisation .. but speaking for those I've actually encountered.. is in need of such massive harvest .

While it's difficult to determine number of real cases and exclude numbers of unreal cases that are just similar in nature , because our nature tends to copy 'their nature' and more advanced patterns even if they are typically 'unrealistic' for us ,

from what is observable to most scientists and me alike , those protruding , striking, well defined 'ET encounters' occur over years spans of time and even if they show number of similarities and level of 'progress' going on that suggests to me the ET is attempting for better communication over time ,
respectively to our level of philosophical and technical maturity 'down here' ,

they are still not 'the same' . They are each unique event , in fact .

So that's where the major rift between human scientific dwelling on repetition AND advanced non-human intelligence necessarily occurs and is difficult if not impossible to overcome.
It says .. either you are ready for us.. at the time of the Encounter.. or you're not .

''We can't tell you when can we make it back'' .

It does seem that there will be next and 'better' events .

7. The factor of sentience can not be overstressed enough . The dumbing conviction or a trend of some todays scientists/technical prodigies etc. who believe that AI is the logical 'next step' in biological evolution and therefor,
what will follow on earth and what 'had to follow' in evolution terms elsewhere in Space is artificial life /intel surpassing biological intelligence , form and meaning ..

is grossly one sided and philosophically immature from where I see it . It reflects the fact that technology was missing on this planet for very long and the need to create such supportive technologies , its shadowy side is however naive fascination by everything that 'exhibits artificial intelligence'.

While such a 'beacon' of intelligence and creativity would probably fascinate few millions of geeks worldwide and in 'Sunny Valley' and be 'the right answer' to the 'universal puzzle' ,

I can assure you that there are more aged and more gifted people on this planet , perhaps billions of natural philosophers who ..in their hearts and minds .. have an utmost respect to Life .. not a MACHINE.

There are few billions of people who will 'inherently' disagree with the principle of 'deus ex machina' and will go for any other , crazy explanation of Life if the one explanation of all you can offer them is that YOU-ARE-A-ROBOT.
Robots ( drones ) are far more dangerous to human mentality exactly because their lack of sentience .

A mediocre evolved civilisation will probably 'send probes' to space such as you do ..

but any truly advanced one will want to travel, see in their own eyes and meet you face to face, for the joy of exploration itself ( have you lost it, i ask the armchair educated so called scientists who is 'exploring' his 'experiments' in gloves and protective glasses or better does not because that's his assistants jobs. Yes ... we do have such academics and scientists these days , journalists of the science mags who think 'real smart' and come with better critiques ..because they never been to the real site )
.

So omit the factor of sentience .. and we're duped.

[Justplain]

Hi Agape, so both you and Bill have seen physical beings not from our normal experience. Very impressive. My experience was in a dreamlike state linked to a grey type doing a painful extraction from my knee (discussed in a different thread). I would tend to think that those who have not had such experiences might find it difficult to understand what its like, and that others exist here that are not from here.

As Bill alluded to, I would much rather maintain a viewpoint that allows for all of the probable possibilities than to summarily dismiss them out of hand because they dont fit our pre-defined concepts.

Dogmatic science usually ignores anomalies that defy its rules. A true scientist identifies anomalies as exceptions for which further work is needed to explain.

We are fortunate to have some on this forum who are willing to share anomalous experiences. I know from my own experience that we Earth humans are blessed with a direct connection to spirit that guides us and helps us in our daily living. This connection makes any day a good day. Perhaps thru this connection we can collectively solve the problems we face to be able to join the inter-stellar community where i feel we belong.

[mojo]

all the hallmarks of going nowhere fast

And likely that no statement was going to change the original op opinion. The question was only a premise to start an antagonistic thread and never truly wanted to be answered. But Avalon still responds with their best intentions. It wasnt the first response to oppose a thread either on this subject. Showing the earmarks of a good disinfo agent...

edit: actually there is another possibility one that we humans do when faced with a stressful situation, like post traumatic stress... perhaps trying to justify something that happened.

[Agape]

Posted by Justplain (here)
Hi Agape, so both you and Bill have seen physical beings not from our normal experience. Very impressive. My experience was in a dreamlike state linked to a grey type doing a painful extraction from my knee (discussed in a different thread). I would tend to think that those who have not had such experiences might find it difficult to understand what its like, and that others exist here that are not from here.

As Bill alluded to, I would much rather maintain a viewpoint that allows for all of the probable possibilities than to summarily dismiss them out of hand because they dont fit our pre-defined concepts.

Dogmatic science usually ignores anomalies that defy its rules. A true scientist identifies anomalies as exceptions for which further work is needed to explain.

We are fortunate to have some on this forum who are willing to share anomalous experiences. I know from my own experience that we Earth humans are blessed with a direct connection to spirit that guides us and helps us in our daily living. This connection makes any day a good day. Perhaps thru this connection we can collectively solve the problems we face to be able to join the inter-stellar community where i feel we belong.

Hello Justplain , I know Bill did but it would be his choice to quote and comment on his own experiences , not mine ..

where I'm concerned , I am losing overview because I don't like to repeat myself all the time but if you're 'missing the link' of someones thoughts and statements the easiest way to find about them is clicking on the 'posts number' under their avatar and posting history of that person will probably guide you through their original threads and topics ,
from there you'll figure out what are their interests and involution to the subject as long as that's been mentioned on the forum ( of course ).
I am taking advantage of this small feature rarely but it serves me as a simplified 'interest test' where finding about my own information goes from others.
People who don't have even this much intuition or talent to operate simple forum software can't , in my best opinion qualify as 'researcher' of anything .

Now that I told you ..

I'll have to repeat myself again that I do maintain very strict criteria to reality , its structure and that includes my own encounters and others.
I've likewise worked for years as meditation and philosophy teacher and did plenty of counselling , among else , so I don't refuse or deny the fact that people ( we all ) have plenty of mostly , subjective , experiences.

This isn't what I've reported though neither the reason for reporting a sighting or an encounter . I'm sure that Bill would agree with me on that or that he would not be bothered to report his 'visitation' and 'abduction' unless he met with likeminded individuals.
Doing so without further data is precisely like asking for ridicule in most of our secular society .

Likewise , I've had small experiences with ETs during my life that I rarely mention or as above, unless out of interest .

The only reason I have reported Event that lasted 4 hours ( of human time ) in Bodhgaya is because the amount of data it contained .
I will never argue about this with people who are convinced of their own truth because it's not worth the argument and ..
to this day , I'd still need even one scientist who would be not only open minded and non aggressive but actually, eager to know ,
in order to 'translate' most of that information to 'human language' , especially 'human scientific language' .
What's been written upon it ( vis the Bodhgaya ET Event Report ) are barebones . You have to understand these are barebones .
And the reason , full reason for why such data are not intended to be your 'comic book' or another science-fiction piece of literature , is because it happened ,
and consists of material good enough for 5 PhDs that i'm not able to process alone, ever .
Do I feel like a fool here ? Completely . You don't have to doubt that for a moment.

I did not have 'another experience' and i know how is to have one so do others.

But the definitions there , strictly differ on amount of data obtained .


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