...And the Wolf Shall Dwell With The Lamb?

[Ahnung-quay]

Under the theory of astrotheology, animals in the bible refer to constellations/planets and are used figuratively for the twelve tribes of Israel. Judah was the lion, born when the constellation Leo was rising. All of the begets and begats are supposed to prove Jesus' direct descent from Judah.
I don't know what constellation the wolf represents. What is interesting to me is that the Native American medicine wheel makes use of the wolf in the position of western astrology ' s Leo. If anyone has information on the Hebrew/Egyptian wolf constellation, I would appreciate it.
I also remember lion and lamb laying down together. My bible printed 1971 lists "wolf". I know this post kind of veers away from the subject but I believe all spiritual belief came from one source.
From some study of astrotheology and the Native American medicine wheel, I believe that the bear represents Aquarius/Uranus. Bear is across from the wolf on the medicine wheel. 'And I saw a bear with 3 ribs in his teeth' may refer to the 3 loops that the planet Neptune makes when viewing it's orbit compared to the orbit of Uranus.
So are wolf and lion representing the same constellation?

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by Ahnung-quay (here)
I know this post kind of veers away from the subject...

That is so not the case! (it drags me back from Fruit Loops )

G'day Ahnung-quay,

...and thanks for your post, which is totally on-subject, and certainly grist to the mill. I read a book quite a few years which dealt with The Book of Revelation from a totally cosmological perspective and thoroughly enjoyed the alternative perspective. Our ancestors based so much of their wisdom on heavenly observation that it would be folly to ignore it. I had made mention in post 15 that the characters of the Hebrew language are styled to resemble the constellations.

One school of thought suggest that the wolf is represented by the constellation Lupus. Here is an image and a brief discourse:



"Head outside on an early summer evening, and you may just see a wolf. It’s not a real wolf, but Lupus, the wolf constellation in the night sky. Visible primarily in June to residents of the Northern Hemisphere, Lupus is a constellation that lies in the southern sky, near Norma, Scorpius, Circinus, Centaurus, Libra, and Hydra.
Its name is Latin for wolf. Listed among the 48 constellations named by Second Century astronomer Ptolemy, Lupus is now one of the 88 modern constellations.
Originally, however, Lupus was not seen as a separate constellation, but an asterism within neighboring Centaurus. In fact, it wasn’t even originally described as a wolf, but only as an undefined animal killed by Centaurus. To this day, renderings of the two constellations usually depict a dead wolf hanging from the centaur’s spear. Prior to Ptolemy’s time, another astronomer, Hipparchus of Bithynia, had named the asterism Therion, meaning “beast.”
Lupus contains 41 stars, none of which are exceptionally bright. Nine of them make up its shape — a sort of figure eight. The brightest of these, Alpha Lupi, is also known as Men. The second brightest, the blue giant Beta Lupi, is called KeKouan.
The constellation contains a handful of deep sky objects, including globular clusters NGC 5824, NGC 5927, and NGC 5986, open clusters NGC 5822 and NGC 5749, and the dark nebula B 228.
Lupus, itself, is not associated with any specific myth, though wolves do figure in many myths and legends. In ancient Rome, for instance, wolves were seen as sacred, because Romulus and Remus, the mythological founders of the empire, were said to have been suckled by a she-wolf".

I found both the image and description HERE.

The ancient Romans referred to Lupus as Bestia (the beast), though I doubt that this should be confused with the biblical beast.

So it may be that The Lion and The Wolf are represented by different constellations.

Thanks again,

Tony.

[shaberon]

It's not hype; they're still trying to write the OT. What we get, in English, depends on someone who depends on someone who depends on someone...etc...but you can rely on the Scofield Concordance to push a pro-Zionist reading.

I don't know the particular verse for wolf vs. lion, but I have found that a fairly close neighbor, Bart Ehrman, has produced several books and has an active website that is a good resource...he retracted from theological interpretations, and does quite a scrutinous job at examining Biblical texts from a purely historical perspective. Therefor, a good start for questions about original texts. http://www.bartdehrman.com/ His blog includes a user forum where he will eventually get around to answering questions in a nice way.

I would also point out the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, which Jerome had to ask permission to look at--not that his view was necessarily favorable, or his opinion important. But, that's a non-Greek NT, whereas Greek OT may be less doctored than the Hebrew.

With regards to an astrological interpretation, I find this likely. I would tend to agree that astrology is the original science, earthly and spiritual at the same time. With the four creatures of Ezekiel, the Man being Aquarius and Aquila the Eagle veils Scorpio. Of course, that gets complicated quick. When taking a quick look at the Native American equivalents, they don't seem to be talking about constellations, but simply ascribing a totem animal to each moon/month starting from the solstice.

Overall I don't trust it, as most of the first Christians were Gnostics who had no Bible, which was mostly banged together by Romans who weren't exactly playing fair.

[skyflower]

Hi Heyokah,

Have you by any chance, come back after unsubscribing?
Because it just occurred to me...I remember seeing your "unsubscribed" status under your ID last year...... *scratching head*

I have yet to go to my parent's place to look for my old bible....I need to check this lion wolf thing.....

another personal event that happened to me...Last October I went to visit my best friend in Asia. She has this big luggage she got with me here in the US. It was a silver luggage. I saw it for many years, so I remember it clearly. It was silver.
Well, last october, when I saw it....it was BLACK. I asked my friend whether she got a new luggage. nope. it was the one she got with me here in the US.

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by shaberon (here)
With regards to an astrological interpretation, I find this likely.

G'day shaberon,

Thanks for your post and link to Bart's site. I have bookmarked it, but will have to wait for more data in a couple of days before I can afford to forrage.

The book to which I alluded is entitled "Meditations on The Apocalypse" by F. Aster Barnwell (1992). As I wrote, it offers a totally fresh, astrological perspective on the book, and once I picked it up, I read it through, which is something of a rarity.

Oo Roo,

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by skyflower (here)
Have you by any chance, come back after unsubscribing?

Hi skyflower,

Now that would be Heyokah, and my tag is Heyoka_11. There was a bit of confusion when I first joined the forum, as I chose Heyoka, but later added the _11 to clear things up.

Regards the luggage.....who knows? Yes, far stranger things have happened, but I would not be reading too much into it. Oftentimes it is far better to simply accept such apparent anomalies as a mystery, and having mystery in one's life is a more favourable alternative to leading a life devoid of it. That may well not help, but it is the best that I can do.

Thanks for relating the tail.

All the Best,

Tony.

[PurpleLama]

If one has an eye for it, one might notice things changing all the time, as in skyflower's friend's luggage. I have a black foot locker that suddenly became blue about five years after I got it. And, don't get me started on things disappearing in one place and reappearing somewhere else.

I actually was in on the Mandela effect fifteen years ago, when a friend and I discovered we both remembered him dying in prison only to still be alive, and he died a few more times until a few years ago, and Gene Hackman, Peter Falk, not to mention various other public figures. I've noticed old building where empty lots used to be and empty lots where shopping centers used to be. These things are difficult to remember at all, if you don't talk to anyone about it right when you notice the differences, which leads me to believe that these things occur more frequently than we might guess.

[conk]

As a young child the Lord's Prayer imprinted in my mind as if by laser. The version in Bibles now is not the same.

People, me included, distinctly remember the Long Island Ferry. As a kid I was always in awe of people who got to ride the ferry every day. Now there is a bridge and people claim it's been there forever.

Sex in the City vs. Sex and the City
Bernstein Bears vs. Bernstain Bears.
Interview with a Vampire vs. Interview with the Vampire
Fruit Loops vs. Froot Loops
So many more. Are our memories that bad?

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
And, don't get me started on things disappearing in one place and reappearing somewhere else.

That calls to mind the near hysteria that was whipped up by the book "The Celestine Prophecy" many years ago: it is a phenomenon that most folk can relate to, and in all probability, in some instances is for real. Mischievous astral activity perhaps, though I believe it requires considerable strength to perform such an act, even on small items.

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
I actually was in on the Mandela effect fifteen years ago, when a friend and I discovered we both remembered him dying in prison only to still be alive, and he died a few more times until a few years ago...

The Mandela Effect could be a thread in its own right. There are so many that distinctly remember his having died in prison.

Posted by PurpleLama (here)
These things are difficult to remember at all, if you don't talk to anyone about it right when you notice the differences, which leads me to believe that these things occur more frequently than we might guess.

Hence the need to make mention of such events as they happen, even if we feel a tad awkward.

BTW, When I use the word mystery, I mean unexplained, whatever side of the veil the actual explanation may lie on. I hope that I did not convey disbelief.

Tony.

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by conk (here)
People, me included, distinctly remember the Long Island Ferry.

Hey conk,

Can I ask which LI service you are referring to?

Posted by conk (here)
Fruit Loops vs. Froot Loops

Oops...Back to Fruit Loops

I swear it was Fruit Loops! But... the word recognition centre of the brain will virtually translate a misspelling which enables us to understand. Such activity occurs in far less that the twinkling of an eye, and without our being consciously aware. Sometimes we remember the misspelling, and other times the translation.

Fruit Loops, Fruit Loops, Fruit Loops... Heyoka ...to hell with Froot.

[PurpleLama]

I remember fruit loops, fwiw.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

And berenstein bears. Hey, my phone didn't autocorrect to berenstain. In fact, it tried to autocorrect the latter!

Hmmmm.

[shaberon]

Posted by conk (here)
As a young child the Lord's Prayer imprinted in my mind as if by laser. The version in Bibles now is not the same.

People, me included, distinctly remember the Long Island Ferry. As a kid I was always in awe of people who got to ride the ferry every day. Now there is a bridge and people claim it's been there forever.

Sex in the City vs. Sex and the City
Bernstein Bears vs. Bernstain Bears.
Interview with a Vampire vs. Interview with the Vampire
Fruit Loops vs. Froot Loops
So many more. Are our memories that bad?

Yes.

Is it related to the development of writing? In things like the bardic traditions, an apprentice would basically live with a master, memorizing word-for-word an amount of literature that would fill volumes. I probably won't remember your short post for two minutes, except that it has sex in it. But this is an unnatural, electrified, wordy form of existence. I'm not under the stars repeating verbatim a tale from previous generations. We've forgotten how to read that primordial language written right there above us.

Why is it the Lord's Prayer (Adonai or Adonai Tsabaoth)? Didn't Jesus speak almost entirely of Abba (Father), which this prayer is addressed to? Father is in heaven which is within you; subordinate the earthly will and world to this. Simple, elegant, works for me.

Focus on "forgive us of sin", then we start a fear and guilt complex, and what's needed for forgiveness and salvation. It's really easy to add, twist, and alter these things, and lose that core message...and with minds that can't remember words, but can substitute memories of bridges for boats...I think something has atrophied, from the excessive use of writing, and compressing activity down to the level of minutes.

[skyflower]

Yes, I also remember Mandela dying in prison.
Billy Graham died....but he is still alive.
I remember Betty White died a few years ago. I even watched the SNL special in her honor. But she is alive today.


There is this lady Starfire Tor....she says this is all due to timeline edits. She claims it usually happens during solar storms. Fascinating Theory.

Whatever the situation may be....I feel like I am noticing more and more of these "anomalies" as time goes by. Is that because of our awareness to it, or is it happening more often? *scratching head*

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by shaberon (here)
...I think something has atrophied, from the excessive use of writing, and compressing activity down to the level of minutes.

Great post shaberon! Nail on the head stuff. No matter which way I look at it, your post was probably the most insightful on this thread.

Thanks,

Tony

[bluestflame]

the importance
of retaining hardcopies , as the drive to convert everything to be in electronic form enables much easier " gaslighting"

[conk]

Heyoka_11, not sure about anything regarding the LI ferry. I'm a Southern boy and just remember being enamored of the big city life. Just heard the phrase Long Island Ferry so many times in movies, TV, and reading it in print.

Who knows, it just seems my memories of many examples given as support for the Effect ring true for me too. The fairy tale line was always "mirror mirror on the wall" and not "magic mirror on the wall". Also remember distinctly the Chic-fil-a sign as a youngster and asking my mom why they misspelled Chick. So many more. Perhaps there is a sound explanation, but for now it's fun entertainment.

[SilentFeathers]

Well, I remember being taught there was 9 planets.....but, now there are only 8. hmmmmmm

What something says and what someone may teach are often two different things. When I was young my bible said "wolf" but they taught "lion"......different bibles types have different translations, nothings changed and the print in bibles have not been miraculously and mysteriously changed.

Geez, the mandela effect????????????? yeah, the earth is flat too!

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by conk (here)
Just heard the phrase Long Island Ferry so many times in movies, TV, and reading it in print.

Hey conk,

Have a look HERE and you'll find nineteen ferry services listed, in and out of Long Island. This may suggest a logical explanation for the apparent anomaly, that being that you may have tied the wrong ferry with the location of a bridge: easy to do. I am in favour of exhausting all simple possibilities before turning to the paranormal.

Posted by conk (here)
The fairy tale line was always "mirror mirror on the wall" and not "magic mirror on the wall".

The two can coexist quite comfortably. At some point, Brothers Grimm convention was broken with, and a new phrase was born.

Posted by conk (here)
Also remember distinctly the Chic-fil-a sign as a youngster and asking my mom why they misspelled Chick.

Hey I recall asking Mum why it was that when tickets to an event were offered for sale to the public, only the blokes could buy them (mail order).

Posted by conk (here)
Perhaps there is a sound explanation, but for now it's fun entertainment.

Exactly! Be aware of both the possible existence of bona fide anomalies, and our, at times, dodgy memories.

There is a website devoted to the Mandela effect HERE which treats the subject both seriously and with mirth.

Oh dear.....Now it's "Beam me up Scotty" that has apparently changed.

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Well, I remember being taught there was 9 planets.....but, now there are only 8. hmmmmmm

Yes, poor old Pluto! Apparently size does matter.

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Geez, the mandela effect????????????? yeah, the earth is flat too!

If you'd like a laugh, have a look at the link to the Mandela Effect website that is in my reply to conk (post 38).

Tony.

[shaberon]

Posted by Heyoka_11 (here)

Posted by shaberon (here)
...I think something has atrophied, from the excessive use of writing, and compressing activity down to the level of minutes.

Great post shaberon! Nail on the head stuff. No matter which way I look at it, your post was probably the most insightful on this thread.

Thanks,

Tony

Thanks Tony. If you look at, for example, how videography has changed in just our lifetimes? They used to let one camera film a scene...it would just sit there and grab the action and dialogue placidly. Then maybe twenty years ago, it got "cut off" to about eight seconds, to make it more exciting, and great dialogues were reduced to soundbytes. Now, a lot of productions are down to...one second per camera angle, with a lot of swooping and cgi flashes. Everything is really sped up, and it hits me like a punch in the nose.

There is probably a camp that believes that the younger brains can absorb and process this bedazzlement just as well as someone 500 years ago sitting through a two hour play. Maybe this is a "greater skill" brought about by evolution? Or maybe its an addictive form of damage?

At the very least, patience and concentration seem to be in short supply. How could someone get bored, unless the natural ability of their brain to keep its lights on, had been depleted? They have been re-wired for external stimulation instead of being filled with wisdom. At my last job, as soon as there was a break in the customers, that's what my co-worker would say...I'm bored. I didn't think we were working for entertainment, and I hoped there would be something more that someone could contribute to conversation, but that one's kind of a dead end.

Seems off-topic, but I believe it is related to the changing of words and the watering-down of meaning.