The 'Hobbits' of the Indonesian island of Flores

[Cidersomerset]

I have been following this since the first articles and docs on TV and in the press.
The sceptic scientists were convinced they were sick humans ancient microcephalic
sufferers. It now seems the consensus is that they are a separate species from one
of the many different kind of hominoids that evolved or were created over the eons.

US scientists say wrist bones show hobbit was not modern human

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z8bLPVi48eo

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Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=x8TM21p0RMQ

Prehistoric ‘hobbits’ were not deformed humans, but another species

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=R2mFH2csv-8

Published on 16 Feb 2016
French scientists say they have come closer to resolving the riddle of the origin of small
people deemed unlike any others on the planet, whose fossilized bones were found on
an Indonesian island in 2003.

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Quashed theory for good....

Hobbit was sick human, says new study
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articl...19/1641832.htm

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Hobbit find shows tiny humans shrank 'rapidly'

By Pallab Ghosh
Science correspondent, BBC News
8 June 2016

Hobbit SkullImage copyright JAVIER TRUEBA/MSF/SCIENCE PHOTO LIBRARY


The story of humanity was rewritten 12 years ago by the discovery of the Hobbit. Now
scientists unearth another twist to this epic tale. Scientists have discovered the 700,000-
year-old ancestor of the tiny primitive human known as "the Hobbit".Its fossils indicate
that the normal-sized primitive humans who first set foot on the Indonesian island of
Flores shrank "rapidly" to become Hobbit-sized.The remains are of at least one adult
and two children, who are all just as small as their descendents.A paper in the journal
Nature details the latest findings.The Hobbit's discovery in a cave on Flores created a
sensation 12 years ago. Just a metre in height (hence the affectionate nickname), it
was initially thought they could have been living as recently as 12,000 years ago.

Subsequent analysis has shown they actually existed slightly further back in time,
between 50,000 and 60,000 years ago - not that this lessened the fascination with the
diminutive species more properly called Homo floresiensis.And now comes new research
from some of the scientists involved in the original discovery that reveals insights on the
Hobbit's lineage. The team presents much older fossils, dating back 700,000 years,
unearthed at a site named Mata Menge.


These remains consist of a piece of lower jawbone and several teeth. They are
remarkably similar to those of the Hobbit find in 2004 and are thought to belong to the
ancestors of floresiensis.There are also stone tools at the same site which are much
older still, suggesting ancient human-like creatures lived on Flores a million years ago.
One theory is that these people were another normal-sized species we now refer to as
Homo erectus, which was known to live on the island of Java, about 500 km west of
Flores.

According to Dr Yousuke Kaifu, from Tokyo's National Museum of Nature and Science,
the discovery of the tiny 700,000 year old hobbit ancestor suggests that erectus might
have shrunk within the space of just 300,000 years, which is a remarkably short period
In evolutionary terms. "What is truly unexpected is that the size of the finds indicates
that Homo floresiensis had already obtained its small size by at least 700,000 years ago."

JawboneImage copyright Kinez Riza

Dr Gert van den Bergh, from the University of Wollongong's Centre for Archaeological
Science, who led the team, said the entire team was surprised at the small size of the
adult jawbone.

"We were expecting to find something larger than what we found, something closer to
the size of the original founder population, Homo erectus, but it turns out that they
were as small if not smaller than Homo floresiensis."The rapid evolution seems quite
fast but we have no examples of human or primates (shrinking) on other islands to
compare it to."

The theory is that erectus shrank to cope with the Island's relatively meagre resources.
But the big question is how did it get there. Homo erectus was too primitive to build
boats and it was too far for the species to swim from Java to Flores. One possibility, is
that individuals were swept across by a giant tidal wave, according to the researchers.

Excavation siteImage copyright Dr Gerrit van den Bergh/ University of Wollongong


The 700,000-year-old remains were discovered at the same site as stone tools that are
one million years old But Prof Chris Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London
believes that the evidence for the rapid shrinking theory is circumstantial: "We do not
know how large the tool-makers at one million years actually were, since we do not
have their fossils yet; and, secondly, we cannot be sure that the evidence at one million
years actually represents the first arrival of humans on Flores."

He added: "It is just as likely that the ancestors of (The Hobbit) came from somewhere
like Sulawesi, to the North, and we have no evidence so far of who might have been
there more than a million years ago."

The researchers acknowledge that their argument is based on scant data: one fragment
of a jawbone and a handful of teeth. But Dr Adam Brum of Griffiths University in
Australia says the team hopes to gather more fossils to build up a more complete picture.

"We want to know what the very, very first (humans) that set foot on the island were
like. That involves finding the fossils that date back to before a million years ago and
which go with the stone tools."

Dr van den Bergh added that the discovery of Hobbit-like humans living on Flores
700,000 years ago ruled out the possibility that the discovery in 2004 was of a group of
modern humans who had been stunted by illness.

"This find quashes once and for all any doubters that believe Homo floresiensis was
merely a sick modern human."

Follow Pallab on Twitter

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36463668

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Article from 2013



Study backs 'hobbit' island dwarfism theory

By Pallab Ghosh
Science correspondent, BBC News

17 April 2013

Short vid on link....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22166736

[Cidersomerset]

TELEGRAPH.....

Tiny hobbit-like humans were victims of island dwarfing


Models, from left, representing a Homo floresiensis, a Homo Sapiens and a Neanderthal

By Sarah Knapton, Science Editor
9 June 2016 • 1:55pm

Tiny ‘hobbit-like’ humans discovered in Indonesia were once normal sized but
shrunk after getting trapped on an island, scientists now believe. For more than a
decade experts have argued over the origins of the Homo floresiensis whose
remains were first found on the island of Flores in 2004, dating from around
100,000 years ago.

The little hominin stood just 3.5ft tall and some experts argued that its short
stature was the result of Down’s syndrome or even microcephaly, which leads to a
small head, and which is currently affecting babies born after their mothers were
infected with the zika virus.



The tiny skull of Homo floresiensis shown in the centre Credit: AFP

Now, paleoanthropologists have found the ancestors of the hobbits, dating from
700,000 years ago and they were even smaller, around 3ft in height.

Crucially, they bear a striking resemblance to the taller species Homo erectus,
leading scientists to conclude that the larger hominids spread to Indonesia then got
trapped on Flores and became a victim of ‘insular dwarfism’ – where creatures grow
smaller because of a lack of food and resources.


A fossil jawbone Credit: Kinez Riza

Dwarfed populations of elephants, tigers, mammoths and even dinosaurs have all
been found in the fossil record, or recorded by explorers and naturalists.

"All the fossils are indisputably hominin and they appear to be remarkably similar to
those of Homo floresiensis,” said Dr Yousuke Kaifu, one of the researchers from the
National Museum of Nature and Science in Tokyo, Japan.

"The morphology of the fossil teeth also suggests that this human lineage
represents a dwarfed descendant of early Homo erectus that somehow got
marooned on the island of Flores.

"What is truly unexpected is that the size of the finds indicates that Homo
floresiensis had already obtained its small size by at least 700,000 years ago."

Reconstruction of Homo floresiensis by Atelier Elisabeth Daynes. Credit: Kinez Riza
The earlier hobbits were discovered at Mata Menge, a site 43 miles (70km) from
Liang Bua, where the first Homo floresiensis remains were uncovered 12 years ago.
One fossil fragment came from an adult jawbone 20 per cent smaller than its
smallest more recent counterpart. The new finds also include six teeth, among
them two milk teeth belonging to infants.

Dr Gert van den Bergh, from the University of Wollongong in Australia, whose team
uncovered the new fossils, said: "This find has important implications for our
understanding of early human dispersal and evolution in the region and quashes
once and for all any doubters that believe Homo floresiensis was merely a sick
modern human.”

The scientists believe the ancient hobbits lived in hot, dry savannah-like grassland
with a wetland component.Simple stone tools similar to those associated with Homo
floresiensis were discovered in the same sandstone rock layer as the fossils.

The research was published in the journal Nature.


The new fossils were found at Mata Menge, a site 43 miles from Liang Bua where
the original hominins were discovered Credit: Dr Gerrit van den Bergh/ University
of Wollongong, Australia

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2...land-dwarfing/


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Tiny Hobbit-Like Human Species Probably Did Exist, Fossils Show

By admin -
June 9, 2016





Facial reconstruction of a Homo floresiensis individual called LB1.

http://ohfeed.com/tiny-hobbit-like-h...-fossils-show/

[avid]

....the zika virus. Strikes again, what a load of unproveable hype and surely noone believes this fear-mongering stuff any more?
Microcephaly has no proveable link to a low-grade virus, and more to do with toxicity in the environs due to spraying of the locale by unapproved substances.

Perhaps, on an island, many interbred species will weaken and adopt a different structure over many generations.

[Cidersomerset]

MIRROR ON LINE....

Scientists claim 'Hobbits' DID exist after discovering tiny 700,000-year-old
skeletons on paradise island

19:00, 8 Jun 2016
Updated 19:39, 8 Jun 2016
By John von Radowitz , Rachel Bishop

Researchers claim hobbits - like the humanoid creatures in JRR Tolkien's Lord of the
Rings saga - evolved from early human ancestors and shrank after becoming
stranded on an Indonesian island

Kinez Riza/SWNS.com Reconstruction of Homo floresiensis by Atelier Elisabeth Daynes

A reconstruction of a Homo floresiensis by Atelier Elisabeth Daynes

Scientists claim the discovery of the remains of three tiny skeletons could prove
that "hobbits" did exist.Fossil bones of at least three Lilliputian humans, dating back
700,000 years, were unearthed on Indonesian island, Flores.The incredible find has
led scientists to believe that hobbits - nicknamed after the short, humanoid
creatures in JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings saga - evolved from an early ancestor
of modern human, Homo erectus, that shrank after becoming stranded on the island.


An adult jawbone from a Hominin fossil found at Mata Menge on Flores, Indonesia

The latest find at Mata Menge is just 43 miles from the spot where the first Homo
floresiensis remains were uncovered in 2003 in a cave on Flores.Not only are these
recently discovered 'hobbits' much older than their 3.5ft descendants, thought to
have been extinct 50,000 years ago , but evidence suggests they were even tinier.
One fossil fragment came from an adult jawbone 20% smaller than its smallest
more recent hobbit counterpart.The new finds also include six teeth, among them
two milk teeth belonging to infants.

Gerrit van den Bergh/SWNS.com Mika Puspaningrum pointing to the spot where the
mandible fragment was excavated at Mata Menge on Flores, Indonesia

Mika Puspaningrum pointing to the spot where the mandible fragment was
excavated at Mata Menge on Flores, Indonesia

Kinez Riza/SWNS.com A Hominin fossil found at Mata Menge on Flores, Indonesia

A Hominin fossil found at Mata Menge on Flores, Indonesia


Dr Yousuke Kaifu, one of the researchers from the National Museum of Nature and
Science in Tokyo, Japan, said: "All the fossils are indisputably hominin and they
appear to be remarkably similar to those of Homo floresiensis."The morphology
(shape) of the fossil teeth also suggests that this human lineage represents a
dwarfed descendant of early Homo erectus that somehow got marooned on the
island of Flores.

Liang Bua Team/Nature journal/PA Liang Bua cave on the Indonesian island of Flores

Researchers at the Liang Bua cave on the Indonesian island of Flores


An artist's drawing from the Australian Museum in Sydney of a Homo floresiensis -
also known as a 'hobbit' "What is truly unexpected is that the size of the finds
indicates that Homo floresiensis had already obtained its small size by at least
700,000 years ago."The original hobbits, found in a cave known as Liang Bua, were
at first thought to have lived on Flores until as recently as 12,000 years ago.
Later scientists revised this estimate and decided the creatures had probably been
extinct for around 50,000 years.

The much older hobbits now described in the journal Nature were excavated from
an ancient river bed at Mata Menge, a site 43 miles from Liang Bua.

Kinez Riza/SWNS.com A Hominin fossil found at Mata Menge on Flores, Indonesia

Scientists claim the discovery of the remains of three tiny skeletons could prove
that "hobbits" did exist

Kinez Riza / SWNS.com Aerial view of the archaeological digs at Mata Menge on Flores, Indonesia

Aerial view of the excavation from an ancient river bed at Mata Menge, a site 43
miles from Liang Bua.When the first hobbits were found some experts claimed they
could be modern humans affected by microcephaly, a birth defect that causes
babies to be born with abnormally small heads.Dr Gert van den Bergh, from the
University of Wollongong in Australia, whose team uncovered the new fossils,
said: "This find has important implications for our understanding of early human
dispersal and evolution in the region and quashes once and for all any doubters
that believe Homo floresiensis was merely a sick modern human (Homo sapiens)."

Gerrit van den Bergh/SWNS.com Excavation site at Mata Menge on Flores, Indonesia

When the first hobbits were found some experts claimed they could be modern
humans affected by microcephaly, a birth defect that causes babies to be born with
abnormally small heads.The scientists believe the ancient hobbits lived in hot, dry
savannah-like grassland with a wetland component.Simple stone tools similar to
those associated with H. floresiensis were discovered in the same sandstone rock
layer as the fossils.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/science/scie...-after-8142908

[Cidersomerset]

Hobbit histories: the origins of Homo floresiensis

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ewI3i5v0LzE

Published on 8 Jun 2016

The origins of the species known as 'the hobbit' - a human relative only a little over
a metre tall - have been debated ever since its discovery in 2004. Now new fossils
may reveal the ancestors of this strange species and help us to understand its history.

[Cidersomerset]

NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC......







http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2...s-archaeology/

[Dash]

I have been to this island, it is near Komodo, land of extremes and megafuana/flora. Everyone rode around on miniature horses(2007), population still pretty short, we joked that they were the descendents of the hobbits (thought to be wiped out by a volcano 10,000 yrs ago?).
Lovely island, quite mystical as there are volcanoes smoking just about everywhere you look, not sure how its changed as a tourist destination now.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Dash (here)

thought to be wiped out by a volcano 10,000 yrs ago?

Not necessarily! For generations among local people, there have been sightings of the orang pendek, a small ape-man creature. It lives to this day, and reports closely match the descriptions of the 'Hobbit'. Interesting stuff.

[Cidersomerset]

SMITHSONIAN.......

'Hobbits' on Flores, Indonesia



Map showing the location of Flores relative to the Wallace Line and Lydekker's Line
and the Pleistocene coastlines of the Asian and Greater Australian continents.


http://humanorigins.si.edu/research/...ores-indonesia

[Cidersomerset]

Bump article .....



Science & Technology
8 June 2016

Scientists find likely ancestor of mystery 'Hobbit'


Fossils unearthed on the Indonesian island of Flores may resolve one of the most intriguing mysteries in anthropology.


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/0...173727859.html

[Cidersomerset]

There’s Now More Evidence That A Tiny Hobbit-Like Species Of Humans Really Existed

Some newly discovered 700,000-year-old fossils have got palaeontologists very excited.


posted on Jun. 8, 2016, at 10:00 a.m.

What was really exciting was that these humans were tiny compared to every known
human species – just 1 metre tall as adults.

That’s smaller than any of our ancestors, all the way back to the African ape Australopithecus
3 million years ago. They were found in a place called Liang Bua. Dating techniques put them
at between 50,000 and 100,000 years old.

The little humans were named Homo floresiensis – “Flores man” – but they were popularly known as hobbits.



https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/...Br0#.ma10kV0do

[Bill Ryan]

The so-called 'Hobbit' (which Indonesian islanders know as orang pendek, insisting it's alive today) has made front-page news with a new interview of researcher Dr Gregory Forth by Joe Rogan.

Here's the article on Zero Hedge:

Noted Anthropologist Tells Rogan Indonesian Villagers Described 'Hobbits' Before Scientists Found Their Bones

Canadian anthropologist Gregory Forth told Joe Rogan this week that villagers on the Indonesian island of Flores were describing small, ape-like "hobbit" creatures to him more than a year before scientists announced the bones of Homo Floresiensis, the extinct human relative nicknamed the hobbit, and that he thinks the creatures could still be alive in the island's mountains. Forth, who wrote the 2022 book Between Ape and Human, appeared on episode #2577 of The Joe Rogan Experience, released Thursday.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_k9l-Qx3YvY

But Gregory Forth isn't the only anthropologist who's been tracking this. Here's a whole bunch of videos from Adam Thom, who's been determined to collect samples and even trailcam images. Here they are in order of release, the first a year old and the most recent last.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LTYHD9TE4-o

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nls2awSdoOQ

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S0eR_mlyCXo

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NfBExIgh72U

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3e-e28W92Oc

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mReWUc5Qic8

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7bqH-t1LNZ8

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PYZaasvepm0

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zGMXdHKXssQ

~~~

An important note which I do need to add: Adam Thom's conclusions about other cryptids may not all be sound. For instance, he states the famous Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot footage was faked. (It wasn't.) But though some of his videos are clickbait, he does a good job presenting the case for all kinds of strange creatures claimed to exist, some of which I'm pretty sure are very real and survive to this day. (See this separate fascinating thread, for instance: Mokele-mbembe — a surviving dinosaur in the Congo, which Adam Thom covers here.)