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Thread: 1st debate....who won??

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    Canada Avalon Member Spellbound's Avatar
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    Default 1st debate....who won??

    I think Trump whooped Hillary. Not that I have any horse in this race.

    Dave - Toronto

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    I think in the eyes of the people who can swing things, Hillary whooped Trump.
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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    Hi there


    How important is the first debate ?

    Hugs
    Love and Light

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    Bhutan Avalon Member enigma3's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    Trump made many good points. Hillary was coached well. He looked a bit nervous at first but settled down. I will be curious to see if he probes her on the Clinton Foundation. He did not touch the sale of our uranium deposits to Russia negotiated by Hillary.

    The question on cyber security was ingenuous to me. Every country does it. It comes down to who can hire the best hackers. China is way more culpable on that issue than Russia. And the USA is probably the biggest offender of all. We prefer industrial secrets.

    It was interesting to see Hillary jabbing at Trump's personal history and Trump going after Hillary's policy positions. Except for the stamina quote. The Trumpster won.

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    the elite and the banksters won...American people lost

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    Trump was the clear loser, never answering the questions, interrupting and bold face lying about many things that have already been proven by his own tweets and video interviews from the past. I am not a Hillary supporter, but I have zero respect for anyone who thinks Donald Trump has anything positive to offer this country. I wish we were not in this position, but a Trump presidency would destroy this country even more than it is already.

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    Going to watch it later as it was 3am here in Europe! This might help:-)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    That is the whole purpose of the debate and this sick system, to fractionate everything into pieces, to split yourself in two. We are pushed into seeing everywhere winners and losers, Top 10s, success and failure. That is the sickness of the ego-mind which instead of uniting the world like the heart does, it breaks everything up leaving all people dismantled and in war with each other. The ego won this debate.

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    Check out the Drudge Report poll immediately after.

    Of quarter of a million polled produced the outcome of Trump 80% and Clinton 20%. This is the true level of support for Trump.

    http://www.drudgereport.com/

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    I think it was as lack-lustre performance from Mr T. His team has not come up with enough answers to the HC fork-tongued tactics, which were all very predictable. He feels a bit constricted, they have been schooling him on the wilder pronouncements, the seat of his pants stuff.

    Nevertheless, Mr T made some killer points that many will remember-

    Mainly that HC represents the group of politicians who got us into all these messes, and so it rings very hollow for her to trumpet lots of new solutions that she has had ample opportunity to propose before!

    Not enough made of the destabilisation/destruction of Libya
    Not enough made of bank deregulation and mortgage mis-selling in the 90's-maybe his team think this is too 'intellectual' for audiences?

    She is smart,slick and appealing, but many know its all smoke and mirrors.

    In UK, things are being presented according to the following article...

    Author
    Adam Quinn
    Senior Lecturer in International Politics, University of Birmingham


    http://theconversation.com/trump-stu...cost-him-65706
    Quote
    The big question going into the first debate of the presidential election was whether Donald Trump would decide to tone down the cartoonish, belligerent alpha male shtick that has carried him this far. The debate gave him an opportunity to present himself unfiltered to an audience predicted to rival that of a Super Bowl, and to reinvent himself as a calmer, more coherent candidate for the benefit of the unusually large number of undecided voters up for grabs.
    If that was the plan, he didn’t have the self-control to pull it off; perhaps he didn’t even try. And in the end, the tens of millions of people who ultimately tuned in were given a stark view of Trump’s deep – many would say disqualifying – flaws.
    He had clearly failed to prepare adequately for the occasion. He was unable to grasp with even moderate seriousness the issues, even when it came to his own proposals, and what positions he did articulate frequently appeared incoherent. He also repeated untruths on which he has previously been corrected – to put it bluntly, lying.
    But perhaps the strongest impression he made was in how he carried himself: ranting, hectoring, often shouting. If part of the test was whether the candidates “looked presidential”, it was glaringly obvious by the end that a Trump presidency would radically redefine what that means.


    Hillary Clinton’s main task, meanwhile, was to turn the spotlight on Trump’s past sins and to try to provoke him into an intemperate reaction, all without seeming supercilious. It was a slow burn over the course of the debate’s more than 90 minutes, but by the end she had certainly put Trump under pressure and visibly got under his skin.
    It was perhaps impossible to avoid a touch of condescension, such was the gulf in knowledge and capability between the candidates. Whether the voters will hold that against her, we shall see – but the gap between the two could not have been more apparent.
    The cracks appear
    Things actually started in somewhat subdued fashion. As is her trademark, Clinton came out of the gate like someone carrying several binders of preparation in her head, running gamely thorough a list of proposals – employee profit-sharing schemes, the importance of women’s work, paid family leave, debt-free college attendance, and the need to ensure the wealthy pay their fair share of tax.
    Trump, also invited to open on the economy, accused China and Mexico of stealing American jobs. It wasn’t coherent by any normal standard, but he did sound a clear anti-trade note consistent with a core campaign theme.
    This seemed to set the stage for exactly the debate many had predicted: Clinton vastly superior on range and detail, but failing to connect; Trump shallow and crass, but perhaps sending a clearer and more emotionally engaging signal.



    It was enough to make some of those who consider Trump a terrifying threat shift a little nervously in their seats. And then his slow-motion meltdown began.
    After some exchanges on trade in which Trump at least stuck to his message, Clinton took her first big swing, needling him on his failure to release his tax returns – as all other modern presidential candidates have.
    Hitting her stride, she rattled off a list of the possible reasons Trump would keep them under wraps: that he is not as rich, or as charitable, as he claims; that he doesn’t want to reveal how much money he owes and to whom; or that he pays no federal income tax at all. Whatever the reason, she suggested, “It must be something really important, even terrible he’s trying to hide.”



    Trump was stumped. At one point, he even interjected to apparently acknowledge that indeed he didn’t pay federal taxes and that that made him “smart”. He tried to pivot to the lingering topic of Clinton’s controversial use of a private email server while at the State Department, but she deflected that with a simple and direct expression of regret – and Trump duly set off on another tangent never to return to the email theme again.
    Clinton followed up swiftly with a hard attack on Trump’s six corporate bankruptcies, and the long line of contractors he has failed to pay for their services over the years.
    A new dynamic had taken hold: Clinton was sharp and on the attack, Trump was rattled and incoherent.
    Asked to discuss race relations and policing in America, Clinton reached out to African-Americans while also seeking the presidential high ground: “Everyone should be respected by the law, and everyone should respect the law.” For his part, Trump returned to the theme of his dystopian convention speech, “law and order”, before proceeding to tout his endorsement from the Fraternal Order of Police, lament the abolition of much-hated “stop-and-frisk” policies long associated with racial profiling, and raise the spectre of criminal gangs of illegal immigrants roaming the streets.
    It would be hard to construct a monologue more likely to alienate African-American and Latino voters.


    Later, Trump was asked to address his former leading role in the “birther” movement that for years variously implied and insisted President Obama was not born in the US. Predictably, he dissembled – and Clinton helped seal the tomb of Trump’s relations with minorities. Calling birtherism a “racist lie”, she also took the moment to remind viewers that Trump had “a long record of engaging in racist behaviour”, dating back to discriminatory practices in his property business in the 1970s that attracted the attention of the justice department.
    The denouement
    The climax of the debate came, however, when the debate turned to foreign policy. At first, it seemed to revert to type. In a riff on cybersecurity, Russia and terrorism, Trump threw out vague assertions that current policy was a failure and that Clinton had been around for a long time but solved no problems; Clinton came off knowledgeable, if a little dry.
    Trump did seem to be losing the thread somewhat, as an answer supposed to be about addressing domestic sources of terrorism – and responding to Clinton’s assertion that it was important to show all Muslims respect – turned into a free-associative ramble regarding NATO, the Iranian nuclear deal, Japanese car imports, and plenty else besides.
    But it was when moderator Lester Holt pressed Trump on whether or not he had lied about being opposed to the Iraq War before it occurred that something in him seemed to snap. He set off on an epic rant that deserves to be remembered as one of the most spectacular meltdowns in the history of presidential debate.


    His voice rose to a fully-fledged shout as he asserted again and again, losing his composure entirely, that his version of events was true. Bizarrely and repeatedly, he directed his questioners to ask Fox News presenter (and avowed Trump supporter) Sean Hannity to testify to their past conversations on the subject. The rant seemed to go on forever, as moderator and opponent looked on silently.
    In response to the next question, the steam from his loss of composure still rising, Trump declared, straight-faced: “I think my strongest asset, maybe by far, is my temperament.” Clinton laughed audibly, and the audience joined in. The most telling point of the night had been made. As the debate shortly turned to nuclear weapons, Clinton barely had to lift a rhetorical finger to remind the audience of the risks of turning over the codes for launch to someone so easily baited.
    From that point, the deflating atmosphere of failure seemed to hover around Trump’s performance. He launched an attack on Clinton’s “stamina”, but she responded by listing the three-figure number of countries she visited as Secretary of State.
    The moderator raised the topic of Trump’s previous comments about her “look”, and Clinton reminded the audience of Trump’s history of referring to women as “pigs, slobs and dogs”, even managing to work in the repulsive story of his calling a Latina pageant contestant, now an American citizen, “Miss Housekeeping” – a slur that won’t have been lost on Hispanic voters nationwide.

    By the end of the debate, it was clear Trump had been defeated. First he was knocked off balance by a simple recitation of the facts of his own past, then he was provoked into a total loss of composure on live TV while applying for a job in which calm judgement is the absolute prerequisite. And finally, he was buried by a reminder of his rank sexism and racism. Clinton performed skilfully, but in the final analysis, he did it to himself.
    As of today, there can no longer be any legitimate argument that voters are unaware of what kind of man Donald Trump is. He has been exposed, in the full glare of the public spotlight, as unqualified, unprepared and unfit for office. The only question is whether the American people will be responsible enough to act on that knowledge.
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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    I haven't seen any of it and I don't plan to waste anytime on this complete freakshow, but you have to wonder if it's gonna matter at all who "wins" these debates. Why would these elections not be rigged ?
    I would not be suprised if a descision has already been made and it's gonna be hillary.
    The fact she hasn't been jailed after all she has done should tell how corrupt this whole system is.

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    More a reality TV spectacle than a political debate. Meh.

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    I could only stomach about 30 minutes. Very clearly a national embarrassment. Both lost. The USA lost and the world lost. Any attempt at serious intellectual debate was absent and is also pointless in evaluation by spectators. We might as well debate professional wrestling. No matter who is selected this November, neither of them will improve a darn thing. The police state will go on.

    Matt
    Fear is simply a consequence of a lack of information.

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    From The first Trump-Clinton presidential debate transcript, annotated

    Quote Posted by Donald Trump
    We owe $20 trillion, and we're a mess.
    How Big is the U.S. Debt?

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    This may not really belong in this thread - unless she was being fed answers!

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    As if it matters... But, no doubt, we'll keep the Democrat/Republican merry-go-round going come November--and, as always, expect a different result.
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    Quote Posted by kerrielea (here)
    This may not really belong in this thread - unless she was being fed answers!
    Her answers certainly sounded scripted, whereas Trump's answers flowed from the hip.

    Dave - Toronto

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    I prefer Trump but, the machine is going to put Hillary in office ... i think she won the debate, the sleeprs will see Hillary smiling and blowing off acusations, while she mae trump seem angry and on the defensive path ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: 1st debate....who won??

    Hillary was smug and well prepared, but her winning the debate is like winning the battle, but losing the war. I don't think her excellent performance will bring many people around to support her. She still doesn't have a new vision, or a way out of the mess we are in, and the whole debate setting was set up to undermine Trump - a college campus in a liberal bastion, with the moderator asking questions to bait Trump, and the first question out being prefixed by a statement about how wonderful the U.S. economy is right now. Come on folks, you've been had.

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