Trump is NOT the answer

[Lifebringer]

Two stale boxes of cookies, coming thru elections. We shoulda voted Bernie.

[Baby Steps]

top down is never the answer

Trump made it because he told more truths than others, so it was a bottom up process

but if you parachute a slightly more truthful person into a swamp of corruption, that, in itself is not a solution.

it may be at best a pause or reformulation of the war mongering.

much much more bottom up action is needed.

we are currently closer to midnight than we were during the Cuban missile crisis, and our leaders lack the will to step back

they must be made to, by public pressure

[Chester]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)

Posted by meeradas (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here, in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?

Each of us does their own work on "self." Some might call this "shadow work." This is my preferred term.

To the degree each of us does that (in whatever direction that work unfolds) the shared reality reflects the results back to us.


On another note...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aqw8v1ILB2g

[Iloveyou]

Half a year ago I was thinking (from my European standpoint): What are they talking about (re the two candidates)? Obviously it's only a choice between pest and cholera. Then, roughly following the election campaign and the discussions, an analogy occured to me: Trump as President can be seen like just one more breathe (gasp) for a person who struggles to survive on the open sea. The other choice would have meant drowning immediately.

That's where so many people, who I meet on a daily basis, stand (knowingly or not): On the edge (to use a different picture), struggling to survive energetically and spiritually. Many only clinging to a cliff with their fingertips.

That's also the point, where the concept of different timelines comes into play, and the imperative to choose.

Insofar I think people made a good choice (way beyond only accepting the lesser evil).

edit: @#25: thank you and you're very welcome, Sam Hunter

[Chester]

Posted by Iloveyou (here)
Half a year ago I was thinking (from my European standpoint): What are they talking about (re the two candidates)? Obviously it's only a choice between pest and cholera. Then, roughly following the election campaign and the discussions, an analogy occured to me: Trump as President can be seen like just one more breathe (gasp) for a person who struggles to survive on the open sea. The other choice would have meant drowning immediately.

That's where so many people, who I meet on a daily basis, stand (knowingly or not): On the edge (to use a different picture), struggling to survive energetically and spiritually. Many only clinging to a cliff with their fingertips.

That's also the point, where the concept of different timelines comes into play, and the imperative to choose.

Insofar I think people made a good choice (way beyond only accepting the lesser evil).

Finally!

Thank you for this post. I have been struggling to find the words to describe how I felt and WoW!, Iloveyou... you nailed it.

Especially with this point -

Trump as President can be seen like just one more breathe (gasp) for a person who struggles to survive on the open sea. The other choice would have meant drowning immediately.

That is exactly how I saw it, felt it to be and feared would become true in the worst way if the alternative choice had "won."

With your permission, I am going to print this (with credit to you) and put a copy on my wall and when people ask me why I voted for Trump, I will point to your post text.

[Rich]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)

Posted by meeradas (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here, in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?

Trump is a reflection of our consciousness, so all we have to do is change our own minds.

[Chester]

Posted by EmEx (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)

Posted by meeradas (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here, in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?

Trump is a reflection of our consciousness, so all we have to do is change our own minds.

And along these same lines, Trump's election might be the reflection of changed minds.

[Truthster013]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
I just wanted to create this thread for those who are completely opposed to the status quo but who DON'T think that Trump is the answer.

The swamp has been restocked, not drained and the real 'winner' of the election was Goldman Sachs.

In my opinion NO politician is the answer. The real problem for us in America is that the average citizen still believes who gets elected president makes a difference. I am frustrated when I hear both sides talking like if their candidate loses that America will be destroyed. American society is corrupt and is being destroyed because we can't stop thinking about what's in it for us. We are experiencing the full wrath of capitalism at it's best. The "system" only cares about making money. It does not care about 'doing the right thing'. Every politician, even those who go into office thinking they are going to change that culture, quickly find that this is just the way things are done. I wish more people would stop thinking a politician has ANYTHING to do with our future. Our culture has to change and no one person is going to do that.

[onawah]

The primaries were when the recount should have been demanded. Though Truthster013 is right, it can make a bit of difference, I think, if the person in the Oval Office at least doesn't make us want to hurl whenever we see their face.

Posted by Lifebringer (here)
Two stale boxes of cookies, coming thru elections. We shoulda voted Bernie.

[AutumnW]

Posted by mgray (here)
Thanks for the Tthead. I will leave you with the thought that perhaps Trump is the answer to people who have a problem twith the socialistic principles of the Obama presidency.

It seems to be a global euphonium.

The 'socialistic' principals of Obama? If you are referring to Obamacare or Abominable Care, I agree wholeheartedly. But technically speaking, this was NOT a failure of socialism but a hybrid monster more clearly defined as a 'PPT'.

Public Private Partnerships are notoriously vulnerable to corruption. The govt will underwrite projects that profit the private sector, while having the tax payer, and/or in this case the customer, absorb the risk and a disproportionate share of the cost.

My suspicions are Trump will not dismantle it to any appreciable degree as it is a perfect example of private predatory expansion into what should be the non-profit public sphere.

The take over of areas of the economy that were once either highly regulated or publicly held has been internationally rampant. The governments, installed with campaign money from the predatory sector usually 'explains' that the private sector will introduce lower prices through efficiencies of scale and private oversight.

What happens, as many in Britain can attest to, is sky high electrical costs, as a consequence.

When republican pressure led to the dismissal of the universal option in the medical insurance plan, I knew, based on experience, the American people were in for huge problems.

The U.S needs to keep it's military highly efficient, effective and small. They need to refrain from military adventurism. They need to reduce military spending to 10% of their budget, instead of the current 60% and start to turn some of those dollars into a system that honours life and health and peace.

Americans should be pummelled with massage therapy and their military should stop pummelling foreigners with heavy artillery.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Helene West (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Hi Helene,

I totally agree-- with one small difference. I think the media is primarily CIA and was backing Hillary.(I think??) Their portrayal of Trump on the cover, wasn't mocking but expressing disgust with Trump and that part of the deep state that supported him.

Note too, the placement of the M, in TIME, just over his head, like horns!

Hi Autumn
I feel there was a message to us. They didn't pose him with the chair's back to us and him turning around to look at us with a slight smirk on his face to make fun of him, that wouldn't make sense. The message is to us and his constituents are being told - 'I'm turning my back on you'.

As far as the CIA, they are the private police force of the ruling class who either changed their minds on installing Clinton when she showed she was more sick than was previously thought or they always intended to pull a bait and switch. Whichever, the CIA will also do what it is told.
The horns thing is apparently what they want most to concentrate on as many in media have taken that ball and are running with it. This reinforces the emphasis on a personality which is what they want most to concentrate on. Those who research the elites seem to have this consensus that those in power are into the occult and in the pseudo-morality of the occult they give warnings about their intentions for those who are aware. If we continue to stay in Rush Limbaugh or Chris Matthews mentality and concentrate on the demon trump, we won't see the real message.

I think we (the citizenry) were given 2 messages with that cover - that the ruling class is not finished dividing the citizenry and that trump will turn his back on most of what he said (not all of what he said because the chair was 3/4 turned around, it could have been facing against us completely but was not.)

It's almost all irrelevant anyhow since most brains have been so successfully deleted of class consciousness that we will never successfully go against those who rule. In 4 years it will be about ousting the demon trump, the Dems will probably get control again and everything will be about fighting racism, racism, sexism, etc that the ruling class will be even more protected with them...
And best of all, many in the Alt media are saying things like The Elites days are numbered, the oligarchy is losing control, etc. Hah, lol, 'silly rabbits, trix (tricks) are for kids'....

Your symbolism is bang on. Agreed. I just don't think that mainstream media necessarily all back this guy. So the way he is presented isn't mocking Americans, but warning them.

The CIA, take orders from nobody. They are both publicly funded and self funding through front companies. ( see book, 'The Culture Cold War.') The congressional oversight committee created to keep tabs on them is prohibited from knowing how much money they spend in a given year. They hide behind the shield of 'national security' to disguise their true scope, their activities.

An interesting article came out in a respectable paper a while back. Think it might have been The Guardian, describing how fractured American policy had become in Syria, with the military fighting ISIS, and the CIA supporting them!

It is probably best to imagine the Deep State as being governed by war lords or mob bosses with their own agendas, some of which dovetail and others do not. Some are more beholden to the executive branch and others more split off.

The divisions you have emphasized are not just on the surface, they go deep into the covert world.

The U.S is becoming, like many third world nations, increasingly 'mobbed up.'

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Notice again how fast a discussion of Trump is interjected with how terrible Obama or Hillary is. It's almost as if some people are afraid to take a realistic and balanced look at the President Elect. The same probably would have happened if Hillary had been elected.

I think it is obvious to anyone who maintains an objective point of view that we are witnessing willful self-delusion. It is the maintenance and defense of a fragile reality model. Those who engage in this behavior are often indistinguishable from those they rant against. And, most importantly, are easily controlled by those who wish to exert control. In fact, they are the first to fall in line with the agenda being pushed.

I needed to say my peace on this. Thank you for reading.

To take it a step further into the realm of solution- Tune into your body. It will tell you what you need to know. It will tell you where you are being manipulated. Notice your breath. Where is there tension? Where is the difference between reaction and response? Do you feel emotion in response to information? Where is it in your body? Stay with it. Don't try to change it. Sit with it. Stay with it and breathe until it dissolves. This is the way.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Sam Hunter (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)

Posted by meeradas (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Then, who or what IS the answer?

It's right here, in post No. 2 of this thread.

It is AN answer (a very good one!) - and how do you suggest that be implemented? What's the goal (s) (or outcome), the "plan" and the action to follow?

Each of us does their own work on "self." Some might call this "shadow work." This is my preferred term.

To the degree each of us does that (in whatever direction that work unfolds) the shared reality reflects the results back to us.


On another note...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aqw8v1ILB2g

Sam, this is only true, up to a point. It places far too much responsibility for changing the greater political shadow, on people who are doing their best already and who know themselves fairly well. The greater political shadow has to be vanquished, IMHO, by various means, not the least of which is externally imposed force. As Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers, in the temple, in a fit of temper.

Can you see Trump, with his Goldman Sachs cabinet, doing this? He hasn't overturned the tables, he has reinforced them so they can't tip over. And now he is sitting at those same tables, with the money changers to 'deal.'

Some of the best shadow work we do is to abandon the left/right, freedom loving/ freedom hating dichotomies that plague the mind and that are so susceptible to propaganda.

[ghostrider]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Then, who or what IS the answer?

The answer is responsibility for self , thoughts, feelings and actions are not determined by who sits in the big chair miles away ... people always want change but want someone else to do it ... its up to each of us... thinking for ourselves , treating others how we want treated etc ...

[genevieve]

Too many of us in America still believe that being a citizen of the U.S. is what we are and what we're supposed to be.

Those of us born on the soil of one of the American states are American State Nationals. And then we sign up or get signed up as U.S. citizens. After that, we're subject to the federal government corporation's rules.

For more info on how this monstrous game came into being and how we're being used as fodder, check out http://annavonreitz.com/

Number 58, "The specific details of how you were defrauded," is a summary worth reading.


Peace Love Joy & Harmony,
genevieve

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Helene West (here)

Posted by dim (here)
Until we exhaust all, everything, and all it remains is us ourselves bare, naked without skin in the wind
and when nothing works we forced to look where we've been avoiding for so long, inside.

Until then we must taste everything outside first, it's necessary. A required course.

This reminds me of something the High Sparrow in Game of Thrones would say...

Are you saying you judge the appropriateness or accuracy of words, based on judgments of a speaker? Any person with any intentions can say anything; words and concepts are not owned by the people who speak them, nor can their value or quality be determined by the speaker who speaks them. If a Satanist reads the Bible out loud, is now the Bible a work of Satan? Artificially joining the words to a speaker for judgement is like judging a person by their dress size. Inappropriate.

[AutumnW]

Posted by ghostrider (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Then, who or what IS the answer?

The answer is responsibility for self , thoughts, feelings and actions are not determined by who sits in the big chair miles away ... people always want change but want someone else to do it ... its up to each of us... thinking for ourselves , treating others how we want treated etc ...

There are two ideologies these days that strike me as fundamentalist, in nature. One is the one you espouse regarding the primacy of the individual over all circumstances, which lies at the heart of right wing libertarianism. Accordingly, all forces arrayed against the individual can be overcome and if they are not -- his or her fault. This is illogical.

The other ideology is the one that states that the individual is always and only a victim of circumstances and other people. They are completely unable to exercise freedom of choice...ever. Extreme versions of these ideas led to the 'safe space' movement. Again, illogical.

Move beyond black and white thinking and understand that those at the apex of power control us through these ridiculous perversions of thinking.

[Helene West]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Helene West (here)

Posted by dim (here)
Until we exhaust all, everything, and all it remains is us ourselves bare, naked without skin in the wind
and when nothing works we forced to look where we've been avoiding for so long, inside.

Until then we must taste everything outside first, it's necessary. A required course.

This reminds me of something the High Sparrow in Game of Thrones would say...

Are you saying you judge the appropriateness or accuracy of words, based on judgments of a speaker? Any person with any intentions can say anything; words and concepts are not owned by the people who speak them, nor can their value or quality be determined by the speaker who speaks them. If a Satanist reads the Bible out loud, is now the Bible a work of Satan? Artificially joining the words to a speaker for judgement is like judging a person by their dress size. Inappropriate.

It was a casual, humorous reaction to Dim's post. Sorry you got so deep and heavy about it.

[East Sun]

Those who are criticizing Trump even before he is in the White House should do some homework as to what we have narrowly missed. Whew, this may be due to a shift to
a positive time line or enough people who have woken up to the reality of our situation in the universe.

No one knows what Trump will or will not do, but we do know what the criminals of the past have done, so we can make sure that we never let 'them' try it again.
They are out, period.

Welcome to the new world....at long last.
Now we know and will be watching.

[ghostrider]

The unknown result of negative thinking is that it affects reality , the environment, the planet, each other, the future , and even the weather ... the thinking patterns of humans is like an electromagnetic wave , reaching out in all directions, from human to human, planet to planet, across the universe... our survival is tied to the way we think , past cultures go extinct by their thought patterns, doing things as a result of wrong thinking leads to wrong actions and the law of causality is set in motion... as long as a king, or governor, messiah is thought to be the answer, we will stumble in the dark ... we must be the star in our own lives ... just sayin , personal responsibility is the key to avoiding repeating the past...