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Thread: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

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    Default Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Is the old love affair over? (and a new one beginning?)

    Russia may be considering sending Edward Snowden back to the US, according to a new report.

    Russia has contemplated returning Edward Snowden to the United States as a “gift” to President Trump, less than four years after the former NSA contractor took refuge there, according to a new report.

    The report from NBC News cites two US intelligence officials who have analyzed sensitive intelligence on internal Russian deliberations since the inauguration. The officials say the option was one of several designed to win the good graces of the US president.

    It would also present new perils for Mr. Snowden, who faces charges that would land him in prison for a minimum of 30 years if convicted. And it seems likely that under the new president, the Justice Department would be unlikely to pursue anything but the stiffest penalties: Trump calls the former contractor a “traitor” and a “spy,” and in a 2013 interview on Fox & Friends, even suggested he should be executed.

    In January, Russia approved another extension of Snowden’s temporary asylum, though its foreign ministry did not specify how long. His lawyer in Russia, Anatoly Kucherena, told the New York Times that he would become eligible to apply for Russian citizenship next year, after having spent five years in the country.


    Source - ChristianScience Monitor - http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign...-gift-to-Trump


    ==update==

    In the end of this thread's first page, one will see the conjecture that the Snowden Affair, was an elaborate deception, authorized by higher ups, and carried out using Snowden as the unwitting patsy.. what a better way to deceive all, and plant the thought of an all powerful 'wolf' spying on everyone waiting to pounce .. Was it a deception all along? Does Trump really care about Snowden (if he has been briefed on the psyops deception operation) ?

    Read on and please contribute your thoughts and insights. This could get interesting..
    Last edited by Bob; 12th February 2017 at 22:35.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    For Snowden I think he would find this a bit concerning...

    Donald Trump On Putin And Snowden
    (Published on Jul 8, 2015)
    ________________________________

    'Russia's only choice is to permit
    Snowden to live here' - Putin

    (Published on Sep 5, 2013)



    Last edited by turiya; 11th February 2017 at 18:53.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Exclusive: Russia Is Considering Offering Edward Snowden As A ‘Gift’ To Trump | NBC Nightly News



    Published on 10 Feb 2017
    Intel sources tell NBC News that offering Edward Snowden would be part of
    an ongoing Russian campaign to disrupt the American system, as they did
    during the election.

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1133548
    ==============================================
    ==============================================

    This will not be good for Putin or Trump imo , hopefully its just speculation


    Geraldo is being naïve in this one....

    Geraldo: Snowden trade would be a win-win for Putin



    Published on 11 Feb 2017
    Fox News roaming correspondent-at-large weighs in on 'Fox & Friends'

    ===================================================
    ===================================================


    NBC BREAKING NEWS: Russia Considers Sending Edward Snowden To U.S. as Gift for Trump



    Published on 10 Feb 2017

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/18/wo...ssia.html?_r=1

    “The funniest thing is that the former deputy director of the C.I.A. does not know that Snowden’s residence permit in Russia was just extended for a couple more years,” Ms. Zakharova wrote.

    “And seriously, the essence of what the C.I.A. agent is suggesting is an ideology of betrayal,” she wrote. “You spoke, Mr. Morrell, and now it’s clear to everybody that in your office, it’s normal to bring gifts in the form of people, and to hand over those who seek defense.”

    Snowden seemed to agree with above statements by retweeting on his personal account: https://twitter.com/Snowden

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    I think NBC is just inventing more Fake News.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Quote Posted by uzn (here)
    I think NBC is just inventing more Fake News.
    Naw, it is widespread

    The Russian foreign service is pissed, saying Russia never abuses it's refugee's or asylum seekers (or those granted). The reality is Putin can over-ride any of them and do anything he wants at any time.

    Snowden admitted to a reporter in an interview, his worries about being booted come from his outward confrontations against the Russian Government on human rights violations in Russia, the stand Russia takes on the gays, etc..

    There are websites which have been created by folks reporting from within Russia about it is no cakewalk for an asylum seeker, or a refugee.. That the Snowden-Status is a political football, designed to have kicked Obama's administration in the teeth for the increasingly frigid relationship Obama created with Russia.. Now that Trump is in and Obama on the out (although he is still trying to exert continued Party influence), Trump wants the relationships.. Giving up Snowden at the right time to Trump (for the right political favor that is), is a negotiable point. Something that Trump apparently likes to do, find negotiations points and exploit.

    source - (one of many) - https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/ex...100117331.html

    Snowden's own words in the interview:

    Quote “The fact that I’m independent, the fact that I have always worked on behalf of the United States, and the fact that Russia doesn’t own me,” Snowden replied.

    “In fact, the Russian government may see me as sort of a liability.”
    (Fox News just picked up the feed and is reporting on it..)

    Fox News just acknowledged/verified the data, "Snowden is now a useful bargaining chip". There is some question, will the "chip" be a gift or is something expected in return. Putin has unconditionally "gifted" when it allows them to appear in a good political light.. Such as not acting "tit for tat" on ex-pres Obama's recent sanctions on Russia, claiming the Russian Government was responsible for 'hacking'..

    ref: Russian will not act "tit for tat" on expulsions - http://www.voanews.com/a/obama-hits-...g/3656744.html

    "Trump Praises Putin's Decision Against Tit-For-Tat Sanctions"
    Last edited by Bob; 11th February 2017 at 21:43.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Bloomberg says Snowden has outlived his usefulness - (paraphrased)

    "RUSSIA - Snowden Is Turning Into a Liability for Putin"

    Quote Edward Snowden is increasingly unhappy with the situation in Russia, where he has lived for more than three years.

    President Vladimir Putin once welcomed the National Security Agency contractor for his propaganda value, but he may be wondering if it's all been worth it.

    Snowden arrived in Moscow in June 2013.

    That was almost a year before the Crimea annexation, and Russia could still try to sell itself to radical leftists who admired Snowden as the lesser evil, compared with the Big Brother U.S. Putin talked a lot about Snowden showing obvious delight for thumbing his nose at the U.S., which had tried to intercept the whistle-blower.

    He (Putin) described Snowden as a "weird guy," an idealist, who was safe in Russia even though he had no secrets to pass on.
    No secrets to pass on, no usefulness..


    RUSSIA
    Snowden Is Turning Into a Liability for Putin
    523SEP 8, 2016 12:19 PM EDT
    By
    Leonid Bershidsky
    Edward Snowden is increasingly unhappy with the situation in Russia, where he has lived for more than three years. President Vladimir Putin once welcomed the National Security Agency contractor for his propaganda value, but he may be wondering if it's all been worth it.

    Snowden arrived in Moscow in June 2013. That was almost a year before the Crimea annexation, and Russia could still try to sell itself to radical leftists who admired Snowden as the lesser evil, compared with the Big Brother U.S. Putin talked a lot about Snowden showing obvious delight for thumbing his nose at the U.S., which had tried to intercept the whistle-blower. He described Snowden as a "weird guy," an idealist, who was safe in Russia even though he had no secrets to pass on.

    The Espionage Act

    After Crimea, though, such statements started to appear hollow. "Russia is not the kind of country that hands over fighters for human rights," Putin said at the St. Petersburg Economic Forum in May 2014. That the Russian president could talk about human rights after faking a secession referendum in Crimea would have been funny if it weren't so manipulative.

    Snowden appeared to play along. In 2014, he took part in Putin's carefully stage-managed and scripted annual call-in show, asking the Russian leader whether Russia intercepted, stored and analyzed its citizens' electronic communications. Putin said Russia used advanced technology to fight terrorism. "But we do not allow ourselves to use it on a mass scale, in an uncontrolled way," he added. "I hope, I very much hope, that we never will."

    Snowden defended what appeared to be a softball question in a column for The Guardian, saying that he had "sworn no allegiance" to Russia and that he would fight total surveillance everywhere. The Guardian article helped him maintain credibility among Western radicals.

    On several other occasions, Snowden criticized Russia for its treatment of homosexuality and for attacks on internet freedoms, but the Kremlin was unconcerned. "These are rather arguable statements, but he has his point of view," Putin's press secretary, Dmitri Peskov, said last year. "Yes, he lives in Russia, but it doesn't mean anything is being imposed on him."

    In recent months, though, Snowden has stepped up his harsh criticism of Russian ways: It became clear to him that Putin had lied during that call-in show.

    The NSA leaker took to Twitter in July, when the Russian Parliament was passing the so-called "Yarovaya package" -- a fiercely repressive set of laws aimed at establishing total control over Russians' online communications. Internet providers and mobile operators are expected to record and store all conversations and message exchanges for six months, and their metadata for three years. Internet companies are obliged to help the Russian secret police decrypt any encrypted communication. Snowden's condemnation was vehement:

    Signing the #BigBrother law must be condemned. Beyond political and constitution consequences, it is also a $33b+ tax on Russia's internet.
    — Edward Snowden (@Snowden) July 7, 2016


    #Putin has signed a repressive new law that violates not only human rights, but common sense. Dark day for #Russia. https://t.co/J4I2SQ9VCe
    — Edward Snowden (@Snowden) July 7, 2016


    The Yarovaya package is harsher than any electronic surveillance legislation in the U.S., because the Russian measures openly tell citizens that their communications will be monitored pretty much at the discretion of the intelligence services. It embodies all the abuses that Snowden has opposed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...lity-for-putin

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    I hope the russians won't betray his trust. I doubt he would get a fair trial in US, they would just throw him to rot in a jail.
    True heroes and patriots don't deserve a fate like that for doing the right thing. Instead the real criminals get to walk free.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    What would people all around the world think of Putin and Russia if Snowden was to be extradited?

    Therefore, I think that chances of such a thing happening are as slim as Putin making a live appearance on national tv, dressed in a tutu.



    If becoming a liability such as Bloomberg suggested? Cut of his internet, harass him, make him want to leave, give him a disease with a fast kill trajectory... whatever, but to extradite him to the US would forfeit all the carefully built goodwill with the common "thinking for himself" man in the west.
    Last edited by Eram; 12th February 2017 at 04:18.
    hylozoic tenet: “Consciousness sleeps in the stone, dreams in the plant, awakens in the animal, and becomes self-conscious in man.”

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    General Michael Hayden, former director of both the CIA and NSA, offers an accurate perspective on Edward Snowden:

    "I'm often questioned on this; usually in the context of “but, . . . but, . . . Snowden exposed massive, illegal spying on Americans and our allies.” I’ll let the eloquent and well-respected General Hayden speak to the truth of the matter:
    "
    Snowden is a rat

    "For the hundreds of thousands of documents Snowden stole, he didn’t see fit to keep one, not one, piece of evidence that he ever tried to bring his concerns to his superiors. Not one memo. Not one email. Not one record of a phone call or meeting. How could that “master” thief be so clever and smart, but “forget” the one element that could justify (in his mind) his actions?

    "Snowden never raised his supposed concerns with his superiors. Oliver Stone, and other Snowden boosters, also conveniently ignore that there are a number of legal mechanisms for addressing such concerns by an employee. Snowden could have, but didn’t, go to the NSA Inspector General or Booze Allen’s IG. There is even a mechanism for a concerned employee to raise issues with the congressional oversight committees in a secure facility. Snowden made no attempt to avail himself of any of these proper and legal channels."

    "As General Hayden points out, Snowden’s misguided admirers are essentially advocating allowing an immature, low- or mid-level contractor employee, who has limited, narrow perspectives and experience on programs, oversight, and the laws, to negate large, expensive, and legal programs that have been approved, encouraged, and funded by congress and the Executive branch, with the approval, review, and oversight of the FISA court."

    Zero Hedge: ( http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...mp-nbc-reports )

    Quote There are “a lot of reasons” that would “make sense” for Russia to take such a step, Morell wrote in his column in the Cipher Brief. The former CIA acting chief believes that “the Russian president needs a relationship with the incoming US president where the US overlooks Moscow’s anti-democratic activities at home and destabilizing activities abroad.”

    Moreover, “gifting” Snowden could also become a good way “to poke his [Putin’s] finger in the eye of his adversary Barack Obama,” Morell added.

    In addition, “this would give President Putin one of the things he desires the most – being seen at home and abroad as an equal of the US.”
    Last edited by Bob; 12th February 2017 at 19:27. Reason: added quotes

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Quote Posted by Bob (here)
    General Michael Hayden, former director of both the CIA and NSA, offers an accurate perspective on Edward Snowden.

    I'm often questioned on this; usually in the context of “but, . . . but, . . . Snowden exposed massive, illegal spying on Americans and our allies.” I’ll let the eloquent and well-respected General Hayden speak to the truth of the matter:
    Snowden is a rat

    For the hundreds of thousands of documents Snowden stole, he didn’t see fit to keep one, not one, piece of evidence that he ever tried to bring his concerns to his superiors. Not one memo. Not one email. Not one record of a phone call or meeting. How could that “master” thief be so clever and smart, but “forget” the one element that could justify (in his mind) his actions?

    Snowden never raised his supposed concerns with his superiors. Oliver Stone, and other Snowden boosters, also conveniently ignore that there are a number of legal mechanisms for addressing such concerns by an employee. Snowden could have, but didn’t, go to the NSA Inspector General or Booze Allen’s IG. There is even a mechanism for a concerned employee to raise issues with the congressional oversight committees in a secure facility. Snowden made no attempt to avail himself of any of these proper and legal channels.

    As General Hayden points out, Snowden’s misguided admirers are essentially advocating allowing an immature, low- or mid-level contractor employee, who has limited, narrow perspectives and experience on programs, oversight, and the laws, to negate large, expensive, and legal programs that have been approved, encouraged, and funded by congress and the Executive branch, with the approval, review, and oversight of the FISA court.

    Zero Hedge: ( http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...mp-nbc-reports )

    Quote There are “a lot of reasons” that would “make sense” for Russia to take such a step, Morell wrote in his column in the Cipher Brief. The former CIA acting chief believes that “the Russian president needs a relationship with the incoming US president where the US overlooks Moscow’s anti-democratic activities at home and destabilizing activities abroad.”

    Moreover, “gifting” Snowden could also become a good way “to poke his [Putin’s] finger in the eye of his adversary Barack Obama,” Morell added.

    In addition, “this would give President Putin one of the things he desires the most – being seen at home and abroad as an equal of the US.”
    I won't discount this as a could possibly be true, but it seems to my uninformed opinion that this above is lacking as in myopic in scope of bigger picture. Meaning, some things were exposed such as possibilities that all needed to know of. Even if he was an actor...the topic of surveillance had to be brought up whether for purposes of them letting us know what they were doing, or an actual whistle blower for real... this stuff had to be postulated to the people... If only for that, im thankful
    OBADIAH 1:21
    The Good things in life

    "...where ever you go, there you are..."

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    @Bob: Oh, if it´s all over the News it must be true ?? Thats your logic ??
    If someone does something illegal, and somebody else Acts upon his conscience and exposes These illegal practices than that Person is a Rat in your Eyes ?

    Anyway, Kreml-Spokesperson Preskow commented on These rumors : utter nonsense !!!

    NBC wont name their Source. Sounds a lot like Desinformation / Fake News.

    If its Mike Morell then read what Glenn Greenwald has to say about him:



    https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statu...308544/photo/1
    Last edited by uzn; 12th February 2017 at 10:16.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Snowden says if they send me back I cannot be a spy ...

    President Putins spokesman says its all nonsence


    Russia may return Edward Snowden to the US



    Published on 11 Feb 2017
    Bryan Llenas reports on Russia's suggestion that they may
    return NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden to the US
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 12th February 2017 at 12:25.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    This shows Putins views when Snowden first arrived in Russia and the US prevented
    him from leaving by issueing a international travel/piracy band by intimidating
    European and South American countries. They seem to have wanted him to stay in
    Russia. The US could have caught him by staying quite and pick him up in a
    country with easier access to US intelligence....


    Snowden is a free man, can go anywhere he wants



    Published on 25 Jun 2013
    Former NSA contractor Edward Snowden remains in the transit zone of a
    Moscow airport. President Putin said that Snowden never crossed the Russian
    border and doesn't fall under any extradition treaty.

    ===============================================
    ===============================================

    'Russia's only choice is to permit Snowden to live here' - Putin



    Published on 5 Sep 2013
    Ahead of the G20 summit in St. Petersburg, Russian President Vladimir Putin
    sat down for an interview with AP and Channel 1. Among many issues, the
    leader spoke about Snowden, Syria, and Russia's controversial gay propaganda law.
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 12th February 2017 at 17:02.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    From Rhetoric of Whistle-Blowers - by Barak Bullock - "Decoding the Edward SnowdenModel"

    After referring to Snowden as "a troubled young man" and "morally arrogant to a tremendous degree," Hayden went further, and likened Snowden to an old fugitive wasting away during the Cold War: "I suspect he will end up like most of the rest of the defectors who went to the old Soviet Union: Isolated, bored, lonely, depressed -- and most of them ended up alcoholics" (Peterson). Like the charges of narcissism, grandiosity and sexual deviance, the idea of whistleblowers as "loners" has been seen attached to previous whistleblowers.

    The "argument" is how can we "trust" any media.. ?? That's a good one, eh?

    IT was the MEDIA that SNOWDEN USED to become the champion for his "cause". All that we have is supposed "documents", which could very well have BEEN deliberately fabricated by the NSA, to create a deliberate dis-information campaign, deliberately to see "who squeals", who jumps, who wiggles, what specifically ARE the real leaks, the real networks, the foreign agents, the real "bought" media..

    Ergo, if you can't trust MEDIA, you can't trust that SNOWDEN revealed anything of any reliability, nor can one assume that what Snowden "revealed" wasn't deliberately "synthesized" by the NSA to as they say "shake the tree" and see what falls out. I've used the expression, that President TRUMP is extremely adept in being able to STIR THE POT to see what floaters surface, to find the stuff laying on the bottom, who would only surface from the "swamp" if "disturbed" from their hideyholes.

    By clearing his non-rhetorical constraints and collaborating with the media, Snowden forwarded TO THE MEDIA, a very select narrative of the events that enabled others to defend him in public, fighting the topoi used against him on his behalf.

    For example, in the Guardian's expose' on Snowden from June 11th, Snowden declared one of his fears to be that the media's tendency to personalize leakers.

    Snowden wanted the "media" to focus on the disclosures that would hurt any chance of meaningful reform. Defenders of Snowden repeated this dissociative argument in their own coverage of Snowden and the disclosures, helping to counter any commentators hoping to distract the public from the "leaks".

    Quote Snowden: “The fact that I’m independent, the fact that I have always worked on behalf of the United States, and the fact that Russia doesn’t own me,” Snowden replied.

    “In fact, the Russian government may see me as sort of a liability.”
    From the Intercept - https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
    by Glen Greenwald

    HOW COVERT AGENTS INFILTRATE THE INTERNET TO MANIPULATE, DECEIVE, AND DESTROY REPUTATIONS


    The HUMINT psychological operations section of NSA is designed to deliberately manipulate mainstream media, manipulate social media (including forums), and is designed to make people believe whatever they choose. Snowden himself says in his current release to the public that he says he works for the UNITED STATES. Take it at face value. He says he is not a spy, that seems correct, that he is an "information agent" designed to disseminate and create an EMOTIONAL STORM to "shake the trees" and see what falls out. (Stir the pot, drain the swamp).

    People feel outrage, how "could they", the emotional button, the deepest level of "trust" being abrogated.. That primes the emotional button for opening the mind up to FULL PROGRAMMING.

    ANY average person has NO WAY to determine if any information "leaked" is TRUTH. What one is left with is emotional GUT level hunches which are PRIMED by "data" (propaganda) generated by SOCIAL MEDIA, MSM, local gossip (water-cooler chatter), any written media (magazines, newspapers).. Certain groups then such as Cambridge Analytica come along and then DATAMINE the various social media to DETERMINE HOW EFFECTIVE the "programming buttons" have been pressed, to see what "program" people are operating on, and to determine WHICH method creates the MOST emotional reaction in the masses.. Which BUTTONS are the best to PRESS to elicit guided programming - the "TRUST button" being pressed elicits most dramatic charge, thereby opening up the mind to following "dropped breadcrumbs" or "tidbits" of information planted by skilled operators, thereby effectively programming a social class.

    How can one trust ANY media? How can one trust any VIDEO, MP3 interview? The reality is ONE CAN'T. IF emotion has been elicited, that is the number 1 OPENING needed for subsequent social programming. Forget that, and one can certainly enjoy the Little Red Riding Hood story, designed to plant deeply in children who grow up, that there IS a big bad wolf out there, just waiting..

    References: Black Vault - http://www.theblackvault.com/documen...ra-collection/

    Quote The program consisted of some 149 subprojects which the Agency contracted out to various universities, research foundations, and similar institutions. At least 80 institutions and 185 private researchers participated. Because the Agency funded MKUltra indirectly, many of the participating individuals were unaware that they were dealing with the Agency.

    Project MKUltra was first brought to public attention in 1975 by the Church Committee of the U.S. Congress, and a Gerald Ford commission to investigate CIA activities within the United States. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKUltra files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms’ destruction order.
    ref - BlackVault - http://www.theblackvault.com/documen.../mind-control/ the Mind Control collection
    Quote When information is systematically hidden, withheld or distorted it is impossible to make unbiased decisions. Under these circumstances, people may be subtly led to believe they are ‘freely’ choosing to act. It is precisely this kind of decision that persists and most affects our behavior since we come to believe in those attitudes and actions for which we have generated our own justifications. http://documents.theblackvault.com/d.../ADA075694.pdf

    The thesis of this essay is that ‘mind control’ exists not in exotic gimmicks, but rather in the most mundane aspects of experience. Because it does, it is possible to reduce our susceptibility to unwanted coercive control by increasing our vigilance and learning to utilize certain basic strategies of analysis. In this paper, we present resistance strategies which are broadly applicable to the wide array of mind-manipulation attempts that surround us daily–in a ‘self- help’ format that provides for ready accessibility. Findings from relevant social-psychological research, from interviews and personal experiences with con men, cultists, super-salesmen and other perpetrators of mind control comprise the reservoir of information from which we have drawn.
    ref: Black Vault - http://www.theblackvault.com/documen...ol/comcont.pdf Communist Control Techniques
    How to Indoctrinate, how to guide belief, how to spread dis and mis-information, etc.
    Last edited by Bob; 12th February 2017 at 17:57.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Who is the State Propaganda Minister of Russia? (spin doctor, definition)

    Maria Vladimirovna Zakharova is the Director of the Information and Press Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation from August 10, 2015.

    She has a degree of Candidate in Historical Sciences.

    (rofl)

    Some of her other "propaganda" positions

    http://nation.com.pk/international/1...aria-zakharova - She stated "the JEWS knew Donald Trump would win US election: Maria Zakharova"

    What type of slam is that eh? "Keen on finding out what Americans thought of the upcoming elections, she claimed the only way to do so was by talking “to the Jews, of course, she said."

    http://www.polygraph.info/z/20380/none?p=1
    Quote Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zahkarova apologized to a VOA reporter for incorrect remarks made by Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov at a press conference on Tuesday, in which he misrepresented Voice of America reporting in a way that served to undermine the agency's credibility.
    From the Guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-europe-russia
    Quote A tweet from its foreign ministry spokeswoman said much this week.

    “The migration crisis has been caused by irresponsible attempts to spread western-type democracy to the Middle East,” was the message from Maria Zakharova, hours before EU leaders were set to convene in Brussels.

    It didn’t just reflect Moscow’s well-known resistance to anything that smacks of western-driven regime change – it was also meant as a rebuke.
    Daily Mail knows what Zakharova is - "Spin Doctor" (I seem to remember Terikq Aziz, Saddam Hussein's spin doctor too explaining how great things were in Iraq)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-Commons.html
    Quote The MP’s invite gives star billing to Putin’s outspoken propagandist with her full Kremlin title, ‘Maria Zakharova, Director of the Information and Press Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation.’

    Striking blonde Ms Zakharova, 41, has powerful backing from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. She became a celebrity in Russia last year after performing a Russian folk dance at political conference in Sochi.

    She has made a series of highly provocative statements in recent years, often attacking Britain.

    In 2008, she helped stop George Clooney addressing the United Nations on the Sudan humanitarian crisis because of fears that it conflicted with Russian foreign policy.
    Spin Doctor - a person (as a political aide) responsible for ensuring that others interpret an event from a particular point of view

    http://theduran.com/russian-spokeswo...facebook-post/ - the Russian's Spin Doctor Zakharova
    "Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, trolls NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg for pandering to President-elect Donald Trump."

    Russian disinformation campaign - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/29/w...formation.html
    Quote “Moscow views world affairs as a system of special operations, and very sincerely believes that it itself is an object of Western special operations,” said Gleb Pavlovsky, who helped establish the Kremlin’s information machine before 2008. “I am sure that there are a lot of centers, some linked to the state, that are involved in inventing these kinds of fake stories.”
    Quote The flow of misleading and inaccurate stories is so strong that both NATO and the European Union have established special offices to identify and refute disinformation, particularly claims emanating from Russia.

    The Kremlin’s clandestine methods have surfaced in the United States, too, American officials say...

    The fundamental purpose of dezinformatsiya, or Russian disinformation, experts said, is to undermine the official version of events — even the very idea that there is a true version of events — and foster a kind of policy paralysis.
    And who is there to head it up? Maria Zakharova, the Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman.

    Naw, I don't consider that person worthy of presenting anything but propaganda spin designed to undermine any official version of events, including Snowden's own statements that he remains a US Agent doing his duty (following order, or being lead to believe, he was "acting" independently (typical program to create strong belief system to paint "credibility")..

    Taking Snowden's statement at face value:

    Quote Snowden: “The fact that I’m independent, the fact that I have always worked on behalf of the United States, and the fact that Russia doesn’t own me,” Snowden replied.

    “In fact, the Russian government may see me as sort of a liability.”
    Putin will do what Putin wants, what is expedient for his own program; his propagandist mouthpiece is a pretty girl following orders, no doubt. When she has outlived her ability to "convince others" she will be replaced as have the others.. IMHO of course
    Last edited by Bob; 12th February 2017 at 20:52.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Snowden's hilarious (and uninformed statement) about if he is a SPY why would Russia send him back..

    Spies are traded when it is of use to either/both parties.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001...54863581918490

    U.S., Russia to Swap Agents
    Washington Trades 10 Spies for 4 Prisoners of Moscow; Deal Settles Crisis

    By EVAN PEREZ in Washington, MICHAEL ROTHFELD and CHAD BRAY in New York and GREGORY L. WHITE in Moscow
    Updated July 8, 2010 12:01 a.m. ET
    In the final chapter of a saga worthy of a spy novel, the U.S. and Russia agreed to one of the biggest prisoner swaps between the countries since the Cold War.

    The deal—to exchange 10 Russian spies who were arrested in the U.S.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070806178.html
    Four spies Russia freed have little in common with swap counterparts

    Quote In the world of spy vs. spy, the four Russians released by Moscow on Thursday appeared to have little in common with the 10 "sleeper" agents the Obama administration freed in return.

    The 10 posed as modern, upwardly mobile city dwellers, living the American dream while they trolled for contacts in the government and think tanks that could be exploited by what one U.S. law enforcement official called Russia's "professional" spies.

    Three of the four whom Russia traded for them were professionals -- once successful career officers in the Russian intelligence service.

    One had been convicted of being a double agent for the United States, and another pleaded guilty to giving KGB secrets to the British intelligence agency, MI6. The third was never charged with espionage but was fired from the service under suspicion that he had developed a dangerous friendship with a CIA counterpart. He was arrested years later on charge of illegal weapons possession apparently unrelated to his KGB past.

    The fourth was Igor Sutyagin, a 45-year-old arms control and nuclear weapons researcher for a Moscow think tank who had no known intelligence background yet spent the past 11 years in a prison camp after being convicted of passing sensitive information to the CIA through a British front company. Sutyagin had consistently maintained his innocence, noting that he had no security clearance and no secrets to reveal.

    The KGB veterans have vastly different stories.

    Alexander Zaporozhsky was a decorated officer whose KGB career began in the depths of the Cold War in 1975 and abruptly ended with his reported retirement in 1997. A year later, he appeared in the Washington area with his wife and two sons. He described himself as an immigrant; Russian news reports said he had defected, escaping with his family via Prague. They lived for a while in Northern Virginia, and moved in 1998 to Cockeysville, Md., where they bought a house for about $400,000.

    Zaporozhsky told his neighbors that he ran an international consulting business from his home. They thought he was a Russian spy. According to subsequent news accounts in Russia and this country, he was a defector reaping his reward for spying for the United States.

    In 2001, Zaporozhsky was lured to Moscow for what his wife said he thought was a KGB reunion. He was arrested at the airport. His tearful wife, in Maryland, told reporters that it was all a fabrication, asking why he would have openly traveled back to Russia, under his own name, if he had been a double agent.

    Tried for espionage in 2003, he was sentenced to 18 years in prison despite his protestations that there was no proof he had committed treason. But "the evidence was so well documented," the Moscow Gazeta reported, "that judges sentenced the traitor to two years longer than the prosecution demanded."

    Sergei Skripal, also a KGB colonel, had also retired by the time he was charged in 2004 with having spied for the British Secret Intelligence Service, beginning in the late 1990s. According to the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB), the domestic successor to the KGB, he was paid about $100,000 over time, which was transferred to an account at a Spanish bank.

    "Skripal had received the secret information that he reported to the British services from former colleagues after leaving the military," the FSB said in a release at the time of his trial in 2006. The Russian daily Izvestia said at that time that Skripal passed the identities of "dozens of his former colleagues operating in Europe under cover, in particular, their secret meeting venues, addresses and passwords."

    Prosecutors originally sought a 15-year sentence. It was reduced to 13 years because he cooperated with investigators, confessed and was in poor health, according to the FSB.

    KGB Maj. Gennady Vasilenko was arrested in 1988 in Havana and brought back to Moscow, where he was interrogated about his contacts with Jack Platt, a CIA officer in Washington. According to several published accounts, the two were unable to recruit each other and ended up friends. But after six months of imprisonment and interrogation, Vasilenko was released without charge and fired.

    He and Platt eventually went into business together, providing security services in Moscow and the United States for international companies. In 2005, however, Vasilenko, then 84, was again arrested in Moscow and charged with illegal weapons possession. In 2006, he was sentenced to three years in prison; it is unknown whether he was released by the time this week's swap was arranged.
    https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_and_...ounce_spy_swap
    US and Russia announce spy swap
    Friday, July 9, 2010

    The United States and Russia yesterday agreed to the swap of prisoners held by both nations after eleven Russian spies were arrested late last month.
    The swap will include the ten Russian spies arrested on US soil (the eleventh was arrested in Cyprus and subsequently escaped) and four spies being held in Russia on charges of espionage. The spies arrested by the US all pled guilty to charges of "conspiracy to act as an unregistered agent of a foreign country." Below are the Russian spies who were convicted (cover names are in quotes, while real names are unquoted):
    • "Richard and Cynthia Murphy"
    • Vicky Paleaz
    • "Juan Lazaro"
    • Anna Chapman
    • Mikhail Zemenko
    • "Michael Zottoli" and "Patricia Mills"
    • "Donald Howard Heathfield" and "Tracy Lee Ann Foley"

    Snowden's statement about Russia won't swap a Spy (trying to say he is not a spy) is delusional. He can't use that justification that he is not guilty of espionage, or working for the Russians in some capacity. Russia and the US swap when it is expedient. Gut feeling, he was used, to "shake the tree" so that NETWORKS could be determined, to see who jumps, thereby revealing who NSA needs to watch closely.
    Last edited by Bob; 12th February 2017 at 19:40.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    I wish the best for Snowden. Let's hope this is a bunch of BS. Shame on Trump for calling him a traitor and saying to execute him.


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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    Planted Information
    from CI Glossary (2011)
    by Office of the Director of National Intelligence & Office of the Director of National Intelligence, National Counterintelligence and Security Center
    False or misleading information that the target has been permitted or helped to collect.

    Purpose:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=c7...urpose&f=false




    From Operational Deception in the Information Age

    Quote Why Deceive?
    Designed to mislead by distorting, manipulating,
    or falsifying information available to it,
    deception can induce an enemy to do something
    contrary to its interests.

    Joint Pub 3-58, Joint Doctrine
    for Military Deception, defines it as “those actions
    executed to deliberately mislead adversary
    military decisionmakers as to friendly military
    capabilities, intentions, and operations, thereby
    causing the adversary to take specific actions that
    will contribute to the accomplishment of the
    friendly mission.”

    It is also understood to include
    planned measures for conveying true or
    false information pertaining to one’s strategic
    plans, strength, dispositions, operations, or tactics
    to cause an enemy to reach false estimates
    and act on them.


    Deception can be designed to delude an
    enemy...
    From - http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a525610.pdf reference

    What an interesting concept, that Snowden could have been given information designed to reveal who's who out there.. Who's supporting, who's networking, who's against whom..


    In the MINIMUM, the alleged "Snowden Leaks" gave us ALL the impression that there is a big bad wolf, all powerful all omnipresent watching every move.

    What if they are NOT?

    What if all that "worry" out there is designed to give an all powerful illusion? The cop that will take down everyone? A massive psyops?

    Certainly eschelon and prism exist, no question, and abilities to monitor so called "secure TOR", but what if, just what if, Snowden was the ultimate probe designed to stir the pot? Certainly seemed "believable"... what a great theme for a Hollywood movie - wait !!

    they DID make a movie out of it Gee, are there books too being put out about the big bad 'wolf' doing mind control ops, spying, etc. ?

    Just fascinating looking at what could have been the greatest mind-_____'s in recent times.. "Lumos", reveal yourselves... hmmm

    President Trump upon finding out that the "Snowden Operation" (thinking maybe they will call it the "Snowden Affair"... not sure..) was a massive counter-intel psyop may not want him back (as it would provide no useful "data" dissemination strategy at this point), that Russia's Putin has no "chip" to offer.. And Trump once again will have won in negotiations strategy...



    PS - I REALLY like reading this DTIC mil review of DECEPTION and how it is done and why - it is a good read (follow it, it is enlightening)..

    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a525610.pdf

    save a copy so that if it "disappears" one will have a good reference
    Last edited by Bob; 12th February 2017 at 22:21.

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    Default Re: Is Snowden to be offered/gifted to Trump?

    NSA is laughing in our faces.

    I have to commend them, bravo DUDES ! To pull off the Snowden Affair, and get the whole WORLD to believe you are so omnisensitive to all data coming in is a feat of magic not seen since the Kennedy Affair(s).. Bravo Bravo !

    https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/de...-deception.pdf

    From your own documentation revealed to the public, a document released..

    Quote INELLIGENCE
    The formulation of strategy, it has been suggested, demands an
    intimate knowledge of the enemy's "situation," such a "situation''
    consisting not only of the physical characteristics of the enemy force
    -its strength, disposition, and capabilities - but also its intentions,
    fears, general military doctrine, and other intangibles. Knowledge
    of the enemy is gained through intelligence, which term, somewhat
    unfortunately, denotes both a process and a product.

    In a world made up of sovereign states, each state has vital national
    interests which are frequently in conflict with those of other states.
    Wherever there is a conflict of interests, there is a danger of hostiliies,
    and in order for a nation to be in the best possible position to formulate
    policies and to organize and deploy its forces, it is essential that
    there be a continuing effort to collect and evaluate information relating
    to the attitudes, "capabilities, and probable intentions of potential
    enemy nations. "

    This process is intelligence, and its function is to
    observe, report, evaluate and summarize, and to repeat tbat cycle
    again and again.

    Where strategic intelligence ends and tactical intelligence begins
    is not easy to state, and is a somewhat academic point since, for
    the most part, intelligence is separated into recognizable "types,"
    as for example, industrial intelligence, military intelligence, naval
    intelligence, combat intelligence, signal intelligence.

    The intelligence
    activities at any government level are organized and conducted in a
    manner consistent with the mission and function of the organizational
    unit concerned.
    So make oneself the "Big Bad Wolf" so as to create maximum "jitter" in the information media, and then, watch closely what changes, see what "chatter" is out there.. Dudes, Brilliant !!!

    more:

    Quote Intelligence relates to deception not only because our own intelligence
    must provide us with the information needed for planning.

    But also because it is at the intelligence organization of the opposing
    force that our deception is aimed.

    There can be no deception unless
    means exist to convey the contrived information to the individual
    empowered tn order the action which is desired.
    Picking Snowden, as a "whistle blower", using MSM to disseminate the "data" planted was brilliant. It got the WHOLE world motivated, showed the whole world how boogey man like the NSA is, again BRAVO.

    Why Snowden tho? Some character trait analyzed like how Oswald would perform over time?

    Hayden seems to allude to some traits observed (see posts above).

    Quote Hayden: Snowden is "a troubled young man" and "morally arrogant to a tremendous degree," and

    Hayden went further, and likened Snowden to an old fugitive wasting away during the Cold War: "I suspect he will end up like most of the rest of the defectors who went to the old Soviet Union: Isolated, bored, lonely, depressed -- and most of them ended up alcoholics" (Peterson). Like the charges of narcissism, grandiosity and sexual deviance, the idea of whistleblowers as "loners" has been seen attached to previous whistleblowers.
    OK we see why then Snowden was picked. Right?

    WHO would you please tell us was the committee who thought this dude Snowden was to be the ideal patsy? (I seem to recall Oswald back in the Kennedy days, and SirHan SirHan was used. What was the logic behind that, maximum RACE or anti-Russian sentiment or anti-arab sentiment was desired? Please enlighten us on the logic..) This is important to understand how the intelligence group needs to find the right patsy to create the 'most good'. The 'most good' for the mission statement is in-fact the prime directive, which surpasses Presidential transition, correct? We ARE Patriots, right?

    ref - SirHan Sirhan and Oswald - Notes - http://halbower.blogspot.com/2009/02...incidence.html - this is an INTERESTING read..
    Last edited by Bob; 12th February 2017 at 23:43.

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