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Thread: Trump is NOT the answer

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Correction - My quote is not from Turiya, but from Sam Hunter. Sorry Sam!

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    Turiya "...And I must ask this one question too... If Trump is not the savior (as no one here with any sense of reason would ever expect him to be), how is it that every mistake he makes (and certainly almost all of us would agree he has made some), crucify him for every single legitimately concerning action, triple crucify him for every over blown or outright manufactured transgression?..."

    What you are asking is what I think millions ask whenever they read the news today.
    The answer is - because we needed a trump (or better) 30 years ago... Now the country has been so infiltrated with American haters, today's (i.e. 2017 A.D.) real racists - whitehaters, today's real sexists - alpha male haters, christian haters, etc., etc.
    We're trying to apply antibiotics at the point where the disease has almost killed the patient, the patient stinks, looks horrible, etc. and we're trying now to give it medicine, it's very late and the patient could still survive....but those who have had a purpose for the corpse of america are really, really pissed.
    The haters remind me of the diabolical nurse with her dogs in the movie The Omen, see trump as Gregory Peck in that hair raising scene and you got what he is up against....
    Trump (to me) is like a paramedic who arrives at the scene where someone is bleeding to death after experiencing a severed artery... once the blood loss is stabilized, now all sorts of others do what they can to first, save the life of the patient and then once that is no longer a concern, return the patient to the good health and life they perhaps enjoyed prior to their traumatic event.

    The point I tried to make was that I see folks saying out of one side of their mouth... "You Trump supporters view him as a savior" and out of the other side of their mouth they speak about every single thing the guy tries to do, which is being done by himself, a human being, and an administrative staff of human beings in a way that suggests unless everything he does is done perfectly, he and his staff are no good. Doesn't doing this require that he in fact, be a savior? This I call an example of hypocrisy.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Piers Morgan has not been one of my favorite "to go to" people in the past... but his presence on the Bill Maher program had revealed something that I did not expect... nor was it expected by another so-called "left-wing progressive"...

    Piers Morgan told to "foock off" on
    Real Time for defending Trump

    (Published on Feb 11, 2017)

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Are Trump’s ‘Dark Forces’ Coming for Your Organic Food?
    February 14, 2017 by Ronnie Cummins
    director of Organic Consumers Association
    http://ronnie.organicconsumers.org/t...-organic-food/


    (I'd sure like to be pleasantly surprised and find that Trump's cabinet is going to be more pro-health and environment than it looks like at this point, but I'm not holding my breath, if their past voting records are any indication.)




    Quote (Editor’s note: Since this was first published, Andrew Puzder, Trump’s pick for labor secretary, has withdrawn. A replacement has yet to be announced).

    Over the past three decades, organic food, farming, and products in the U.S. have grown into a $50-billion-a-year powerhouse, representing more than 5 percent of all retail grocery sales. This growth has been achieved with little or no help from the White House, Congress or the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), and that’s been true no matter which party, Democrat or Republican, has been in power.

    At current rates of growth the majority of food sales in the U.S. will be organic or 100% grass-fed within three decades. Unfortunately these current levels of growth for organic, no matter how impressive they seem, will not be enough to prevent the current (food- and farm-related) public health, environmental and climate crises from metastasizing into a full-blown catastrophe within 25 years or less. That’s why my organization, the Organic Consumers Association is organizing for what we call a Consumer and Political Revolution 2017-2020.

    Although the majority of consumers—no matter whether they voted for Hillary (65 million), Trump (62 million), or stayed home and didn’t vote (92 million)—tell pollsters that they know that organic food is superior to chemical/GMO food, in terms of nutrition and environmental impact, and that they believe that pesticides, synthetic hormones, antibiotic residues and GMOs are dangerous, Congress keeps subsidizing industrial agriculture, factory farms, processed food and GMO corn-derived ethanol to the tune of billions of dollars a year. At the same time, lawmakers show little or no support for organic or transition-to-organic farmers or programs.

    100% grass-fed beef and dairy products are now the fastest growing segment of grocery store sales. Yet most grass-fed beef and cheese is imported from overseas (Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay) for the most part because here in the U.S., the USDA subsidizes factory-farm meat and animal products, rather than helping U.S. ranchers, farmers and processors move toward grass-fed, pasture-based, and regenerative production.

    The Obama Administration behaved very much like the Bush Administration before it, providing little or no support for organic farming while touting the supposed benefits of GMOs, hi-tech agriculture, ethanol and agribusiness-friendly free trade agreements. Despite promises made in 2007 on the campaign trail that his administration would require mandatory labels on GMOs, Obama did nothing. In 2016, when Congress (including a number of recent Trump cabinet appointees) rammed through the controversial Roberts/Stabenow/Pompeo Dark Act, taking away the rights of states to require mandatory GMO labeling, Obama remained silent—instead of using his veto power.

    On the campaign trail in 2016, GMO labeling and organic food were never mentioned by the Clinton or Trump campaigns. Bernie Sanders was the only major candidate to speak out for GMO labeling and organics.

    Now organic consumers and farmers find ourselves facing Donald Trump and his Agribusiness/Fossil Fuel “Swamp Cabinet,” aided and abetted by a Republican (and status quo Democrat)-controlled Congress and an army of corporate lobbyists, fracking and pipeline extremists, militarists, racists, and misogynists. If we thought the “O’Bummer” administration and the Hillary campaign were disappointing, get ready for what food writer Tom Philpott calls the “Dark Forces” of the Trump Administration.

    Let’s review a few of Trump’s Swamp Cabinet appointees, with a focus on how they will likely impact our food, environment and climate.

    (1) Trump has appointed the archenemy of organics and GMO labeling, Mike Pompeo, former Congressman and Monsanto cheerleader from Kansas, to be head of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Pompeo was the original proponent of the DARK Act in the U.S. House of Representatives. Does Pompeo’s coronation as head spook mean OCA, Food Democracy Now and our other allies should look out for suspicious email viruses or CIA-inspired drone activity over their offices? We’ll see.

    (2) Trump has appointed billionaire Betsy DeVos as secretary of education. DeVos opposes public education and prefers for-profit charter schools. Why? Because billionaires like her stand to profit off education by short-changing students. With Billionaire Betsy in charge don’t hold your breath for more money for organic school gardens, or farm-to-table programs to get organic and local food into school cafeterias. Oh yeah. One more thing, Betsy’s brother is the notorious Eric Prince, former CEO of Blackwater, later called “Xe Services” and more recently “Academi,” a feared and reviled mercenary army of ex-soldiers and for-hire spies, known for their bloody exploits in Iraq and worldwide. Blackwater’s former clients include the Monsanto Corporation, foreign governments, and numerous police forces across the U.S. Thousands of former military and former CIA officers work for Blackwater or related companies, selling their services—all the way from spying and intelligence gathering to infiltration, political lobbying and paramilitary training. According to investigative reporter Jeremy Scahill, Blackwater’s work with multinationals, like Monsanto, Chevron and financial giants such as Barclays and Deutsche Bank, has often been channeled through two companies owned by Erik Prince, owner of Blackwater: Total Intelligence Solutions and Terrorism Research Center.

    (3) Trump has appointed Rick Perry, former Texas governor and Monsanto/factory farm cheerleader, to be head of the Energy Department. In his tenure as Texas secretary of agriculture and governor, Perry attacked food activists (including OCA’s predecessor organization, the Pure Food Campaign), supported junk food giants like McDonald’s, vocally endorsed Monsanto and corporate agribusiness, and championed anti-consumer laws such as the notorious “food slander” laws in Texas and a dozen other states that make it a crime for a food activist to “disparage” agribusiness corporations. Oprah Winfrey and food activist Howard Lyman were put on trial in Texas while Perry was ag secretary for pointing out that the beef industry’s routine practice of feeding blood, manure and slaughterhouse waste to cows was the cause of the fatal brain-wasting disease in humans, CJD (also known as “mad cow” disease).

    (4) Trump has appointed Scott Pruitt, a fossil fuel extremist, climate-change denier, and proponent of factory farms and GMOs to head the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Pruitt, former Oklahoma attorney general, is an outspoken opponent of the EPA’s efforts to address factory farms that pollute drinking water. Pruitt was one of the first state attorneys general to file suit against the EPA over its new “Waters of the United States” rule. His position against protecting drinking water from factory farm waste has no doubt been shaped by his campaign contributors, which include the Oklahoma Farm Bureau (OFB) and Monsanto. The Humane Society of the U.S. named Pruitt the nation’s least animal-friendly attorney general for teaming up with the OFB to oppose “efforts to crack down on puppy mills, horse slaughter, the exotic pet trade, factory farming, and just about every other animal welfare issue you can think of.” As a climate-change denier and mouthpiece for corporate agribusiness, don’t expect the Pruitt EPA to ban or regulate pesticides such as Monsanto’s Roundup/Glyphosate, or to address the fact that our out-of-control food and farming system is responsible for 44-57 percent of all greenhouse gas emissions.

    (5) Pruitt will be joined on Trump’s climate denial team by Rex Tillerson, former Exxon Mobil CEO, who will now be secretary of state. As Intercept magazine pointed out last December:

    Most of us know Exxon Mobil Corp. as an energy giant, which makes sense given that it is the world’s largest publicly held oil and gas company. Rex Tillerson, the company’s CEO, has spent his entire professional life prioritizing Exxon Mobil’s corporate interests over human rights, the environment, and the diplomatic interests of the U.S., all of which has prompted many journalists and commentators to point out that his appointment as secretary of state is not just a terrible idea but a joke seemingly ripped from the pages of a Marxist comic book.

    What’s less well known is that Exxon Mobil is also one of the world’s biggest chemical companies, and that its chemical interests also sometimes run counter to those of people in the U.S. and beyond. Petrochemicals accounted for more than a quarter of Exxon Mobil’s $16 billion in net profits last year and wound up in wide range of consumer products such as plastics, tires, batteries, detergents, adhesives, synthetic fibers, and household detergents.

    Among Exxon Mobil’s chemical products are phthalates, a family of chemicals widely used to make plastic pliable. Phthalates are in everything from food containers and plastic wrap to rattles, pacifiers, bottle nipples, and teething toys for babies. More than 75 percent of Americans have at least five of the chemicals in their body, according to a 2000 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    (6) Trump appointed, and of course the Republican-controlled Senate approved, an outright racist, firm supporter of big business, and supporter of the Monsanto-Bayer merger, former Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, as the new attorney general. Sessions will no doubt provide critical support to Bayer AG’s proposed $66-billion purchase of Monsanto Co., which is supposed to be undergoing state and federal scrutiny to prevent monopolistic control over food, seeds and agricultural chemicals. Monsanto’s stock, previously falling, has risen since Trump’s election and his selection of Sessions as the new AG. Sessions voted for the DARK Act and has been outspoken in his view that states have no right to require mandatory labeling of GMOs.

    (7) Last but not least, Trump has appointed Sonny Perdue to head up the USDA. Perdue is the former governor of Georgia. He supports factory farms, pesticides and genetically engineered crops. In 2009, Perdue signed a bill into law that blocked local communities in Georgia from regulating factory farms to address animal cruelty, pollution or any other hazard. He took money from Monsanto and other pesticide companies for his gubernatorial campaigns. The Biotechnology Innovation Organization, a front group for the GMO industry, named Perdue their 2009 Governor of the Year. The Grocery Manufacturers Association (GMA), the multi-billion-dollar lobbying group that represents Monsanto, Dow, Dupont, Coca-Cola, General Mills (you get the picture) rushed to praise Perdue’s nomination. In a statement, GMA’s president said her group “looks forward to working with [Perdue] on issues key to keeping America’s food the safest and most affordable food supply in the history of the world.” Coming from the GMA, leader of the charge to keep labels off GMO foods, we know that “safest and most affordable food” is code for “industrial chemical GMO food.”

    Beyond the imposition of his Swamp Cabinet, Trump has begun issuing executive orders that will have a major impact on organics and the food and farming system. His decree that no new federal regulations will be implemented, unless two previous federal regulations are repealed, likely means that no disclosure whatsoever will be required on genetically engineered foods, even the watered down “QR” bar codes called for under the DARK Act. Even more ominously, the pro-Trump Republican Freedom Caucus has called for the abolition of the entire National Organic Program. Other pending regulations, banning dangerous pesticides, improving animal welfare, removing certain synthetic ingredients from organic production, likewise remain in limbo.

    Trump’s Mexico wall and his pronouncements that he’s going to round up and deport all immigrant workers present a rather serious challenge to U.S. food production, whether organic or non-organic. The bottom line is that most of our farmworkers, and many if not most of our restaurant and other food chain workers (processing, warehousing, distribution, retail) are immigrants without citizenship papers. If Trump follows through with his threat, much of the U.S. food and farming system will collapse.

    There’s one thing Trump and his cronies can’t do, at least not very easily. They can’t stop us from our waging our #ConsumerRevolution, voting with our pocketbooks against GMOs, industrial agriculture, factory farms, sweatshop clothing, and polluting and exploitative companies and brands. And they can’t stop us from voting with our pocketbooks for organic food, Fair Trade-certified products, and companies, retailers and brands that take a stand against racism, sexism, homophobia and the destruction of our environment and climate.

    And down the road, they can’t stop us from organizing a #PoliticalRevolution and throwing the politicians out of office who support the Trump and his business-as-usual agenda of the One Percent.

    We have our work cut out for us. We must Resist Trump and the One Percent, including the sell-out Democrats, who have (temporarily) hijacked our economy and our political system. And we must Regenerate our food and farming system, our public health, and our grassroots networks.

    Linked Source: “Dark Forces” Are Coming for Your Organic Food
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Time to resurrect this thread. I think I was correct in my assumptions and thank the many who have participated so far!

    MGrey, as far as Trump's supporters reacting to Obama's 'socialism' I assume you are referring to Obama's health care plan, predominantly. Because the universal option was voted down by repuglicans, it became a hot mess of corruption and conflicts of interest. It also became very expensive. It is no wonder people were distraught and irate about it.

    It is surely obvious to you now that the military, pushing for a lifting of the sequester (on them, exclusively.) would like to see support withdrawn from life giving programs and redirected to government warfare programs.

    I want to direct attention to my prior assessment of the deep state and what is involved here. Steve Bannon, who helped formulate Trumps's foreign policy, in order to get him elected, has been turfed out. This was likley always the plan.

    Trump represents the military branch of the deep state against the civilian branch, to put it in loose untidy terms. Of course it is more Byzantine than that. Military intelligence helped get him elected and he may not even know it.

    Now you have a president who would like to delegate more discretionary power to the military, so they can "act on their own."

    Lovely. Can you say..."military dictatorship?" When you have a delegator in chief, off loading responsibility to the military branch, while starving other agencies to fund that military, you have a dictatorship, by the military almost by default. They just waltz in.



    What we are currently witnessing is a military coup, begun with Kennedy's assassination

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Trump represents the military branch of the deep state against the civilian branch, to put it in loose untidy terms. Of course it is more Byzantine than that. Military intelligence helped get him elected and he may not even know it.
    Hmm, I think you need to analyse the recent military actions a bit more deeply than headline level.

    He launched 59 cruise missiles at an abandoned air base only 23 "hit" it(and gave warning of the attack and didn't damage anything, where'd those other missiles go? that's a SIGNIFICANT UN-IGNORABLE QUESTION there... seriously) too many weird actions there.

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Now you have a president who would like to delegate more discretionary power to the military, so they can "act on their own."
    Correction:
    to very specific individual generals, like the guy that dropped a MOAB on the CIA caves (kinda shakes that "intel got him elected" bit) in Afghanistan, if you think that wasn't a BIG message to someone, I'm not sure what to say.. (that's the first time we've EVER used a MOAB, btw; MOABs are designed as not only a large ordinance, but a HUGE psychological weapon).

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Lovely. Can you say..."military dictatorship?" When you have a delegator in chief, off loading responsibility to the military branch, while starving other agencies to fund that military, you have a dictatorship, by the military almost by default. They just waltz in.
    The military chain of command is designed around delegation. If I didn't delegate my responsibilities to my soldiers the mission wouldn't get done; it is my responsibility to ensure the assignments fit the individual & their skill set and they get completed at minimum to standard. Basic management philosophy right?


    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    What we are currently witnessing is a military coup, begun with Kennedy's assassination

    or we could honestly be seeing a clean out of the deep state.

    I was pretty anti trump until I started looking at some of his moves... now it's a big question mark.

    Did you know when Xi was meeting with Trump his granddaughter came out and sang Xi a song in Mandarin (quite the accomplishment for her) it was the "Theme song" of his (Xi) largest political rival... this guy makes some pretty sly moves.... I'm now more open to possible 7d backgammon being played.... the fact that Xi left china is huge alone (traditionally POTUS visits china, not the other way around)... something is going on there..


    though the next few moves will be telling... so far, I dunno.. I can see both ways.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Target,

    I am having so much difficulty trying to find out the very basics about what happened from alternative OR mainstream. They could have launched flubber tipped missiles that bounced off that tarmac and right into outer space, for all we know.

    The question remains, has he reversed his stance with regards Assad and Russia? Remains to be seen. It certainly seems to be hardening towards China. The Korea imbroglio is more about naval occupation of Asian territory, using Korea as an excuse. Eventually this will come to a head.

    I think the plan, all along, was to pander to voters who desired peace and then, post election, carry on with war as usual. Though this time, it appears that the war machinery is ramping up and the wars are going to be 'bigger better and shinier.'

    As far as delegation of authority to the military, you are right -- that it starts small--but it is likely going to end big, with the military more in control than ever.

    There are military people who LOVE the theatre of war...Curtis leMay, Patton, etc.. And then Douglas MacArthur could not be brought under control by the civilian government so had to be fired by Truman. He was acting on his own and refused to take direction from the president. It is vitally important, as you can well appreciate, that the president is clearly uncompromised, acting of his own volition and not a mere figurehead representing the military, a symbolic artefact of sorts.

    Human nature hasn't changed enough to discount for the fact that we have nuclear weapons. My only hope and this is totally off topic--that Robert Salas and other ICBM missile silo commanders stories were completely authentic and the message from the aliens is --you're not going to be able to launch one of these babies. We will interfere.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    never mind...

    I took my wife's Herbalife routine today and my mind is in overdrive, apologies.
    Last edited by Chester; 19th April 2017 at 00:28.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    One thing I can say in favor of the military is something that Simon Parkes thinks which seems accurate to me, that they are much more loyal to the American people than the police are.
    In a country that is becoming more and more a police state, this could be a big advantage.
    Since so many veterans end up being dependent on benefits other than just VA, such as food stamps, low income housing, etc. I would think the military would be pressing for better social programs for the poor and disabled.
    It seems inevitable that at some point Earth is going to have to join ET races who are trying to keep the Reptilian and other regressive races from gaining complete control.
    So dreams of peace and trading swords for plowshares may be further in the future than we'd like to think.
    But sacrificing the environment for a quick fix for the economy is ludicrously short sighted.
    Last edited by onawah; 19th April 2017 at 00:34.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Time to resurrect the thread -- again. I note that Paul Craig Roberts is now critical of Trump, as is Gerald Celente.

    I guess it is easier to believe he is being mind controlled by chip technology, as Catherine Austin Fitts proposed, than accept the mundane reality. It ain't wizz bang.

    He was given all of his talking points to win and then did a 180 degree turn afterward.

    He has a personality disorder. The thug in office is the same thug he was before he came to power. Nobody rises to the top in Merica, if they are really and truly opposed to the military industrial complex. Nothing he said recently contradicts this in any way. And he ran on a platform of increasing military budget, while starving other agencies.

    What does it take to wake people up? The chances are vanishingly small that a malignant narcissist is operating from a position of principal rather than self interest. And winning is everything to them. He is blatant bull****ter who is going to surprise those left in his support base, at some point.

    And no to those who think I was a Hillary enthusiast or Sanders supporter. Sanders was a compliant pro-Israel contender who would have done nothing to stop the run away military budget that supports exploitation and expansion.

    I am very anti-war and that is the main reason I am anti Trump -- as are most of those who disliked all of the main candidates.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    One thing I can say in favor of the military is something that Simon Parkes thinks which seems accurate to me, that they are much more loyal to the American people than the police are.
    In a country that is becoming more and more a police state, this could be a big advantage.
    Since so many veterans end up being dependent on benefits other than just VA, such as food stamps, low income housing, etc. I would think the military would be pressing for better social programs for the poor and disabled.
    It seems inevitable that at some point Earth is going to have to join ET races who are trying to keep the Reptilian and other regressive races from gaining complete control.
    So dreams of peace and trading swords for plowshares may be further in the future than we'd like to think.
    But sacrificing the environment for a quick fix for the economy is ludicrously short sighted.
    Onawah, the police are becoming militarized, so it is the other way around. The military is about protecting the elite. It is also about bureaucratic empire building within the ranks aiming to acquire vaster and larger budgets.

    The junior officers and soldiers have their own sympathies, of course, but they have to listen to their commanders.

    And though we may be influenced by alien intelligence, it's possible we ended up where we are due totally to degrading cultural values that have helped to maintain a pathocracy.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 25th April 2017 at 03:13.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    [...] a pathocracy.
    Mad Max: Fury Road
    Last edited by Atlas; 25th April 2017 at 03:51.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Literally a wild ride, Atlas! Our future may be as bleak, though probably less exciting.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    News in late last night. Trump imposes a 20% tariff on softwood lumber from Canada. Let the trade war begin! This means higher house prices for Americans. I don't fault any leader for trying to protect their own industries but as the U.S is a net importer of goods, the jobs it will create will be offset by much higher prices. Get ready for it.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Time to resurrect the thread -- again. I note that Paul Craig Roberts is now critical of Trump, as is Gerald Celente.

    I guess it is easier to believe he is being mind controlled by chip technology, as Catherine Austin Fitts proposed, than accept the mundane reality. It ain't wizz bang.

    He was given all of his talking points to win and then did a 180 degree turn afterward.

    He has a personality disorder. The thug in office is the same thug he was before he came to power. Nobody rises to the top in Merica, if they are really and truly opposed to the military industrial complex. Nothing he said recently contradicts this in any way. And he ran on a platform of increasing military budget, while starving other agencies.

    What does it take to wake people up? The chances are vanishingly small that a malignant narcissist is operating from a position of principal rather than self interest. And winning is everything to them. He is blatant bull****ter who is going to surprise those left in his support base, at some point.

    And no to those who think I was a Hillary enthusiast or Sanders supporter. Sanders was a compliant pro-Israel contender who would have done nothing to stop the run away military budget that supports exploitation and expansion.

    I am very anti-war and that is the main reason I am anti Trump -- as are most of those who disliked all of the main candidates.
    Hi AutmnW.

    I am also anti-Trump, for many of the same reasons as you. Also, my father had a business meeting with Trump in which Trump made a racist comment using the N-word. It resulted in my father rejecting a lucrative contract for carpentry work in his casinos.

    It turned out to be a very wise decision, as the company that did get the contract was totally stiffed by Trump and had to go bankrupt as a result.

    Recently, it occurred to me just how "Abnormal" his campaign and presidency has been.

    To think that we could have a US president who has stated that he has sexually assaulted women by grabbing them by their private parts is just incredible to me.

    The hyper-normalization of his conduct is extremely dangerous and seems to allow Trump to say and do things never done by US presidents.

    Perhaps this is why he only seems to manage an approval rating in the 30% to 40% range. This is his base and these people are sadly either like minded with him, or just ignorant.

    Anyway, I decided to do a google search for "Trump's abnormal presidency." and found the following Vice on-going article titled "A running guide to Trump's highly abnormal presidency" See link below:

    https://news.vice.com/story/state-de...s-private-club

    It's really sad when Fox news has higher standards and lower tolerance for sexual harassment/abuse than we do for president of the USA.

    Something is very very wrong!!

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by abmqa (here)
    To think that we could have a US president who has stated that he has sexually assaulted women by grabbing them by their private parts is just incredible to me.

    This one point is a great example of why you don't understand how he got elected, and I don't understand how you don't understand


    haha, it's all about perception.

    You perceived that statement to be sexual assault.

    I heard "they let you do anything"... "let" being the short term for "consent" and further more; your acting like grown adults do NOT enjoy sex or "private part stimulation"; was it the childish "pussy" term usage that you objected to?

    Or did you just hear what you wanted to hear (or did I?)

    To me that whole thing was very weird, and it's turned out to be a fairly good litmus test for "where people stand" on a lot of issues.


    I think there were FAR too many situations like the above during the election for them NOT to be a strategy (plus they kind of parallel things written in "the art of the deal" ). And your right, it' was a crazy election; but if he didn't break records for "the least spent on an elected presidential campaign" I'd be shocked (good or bad, it was an effective strategy).

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    News in late last night. Trump imposes a 20% tariff on softwood lumber from Canada. Let the trade war begin! This means higher house prices for Americans. .
    Houses are still built from tree carcasses?

    Houses are currently being 3d printed in under 24 hours, wood construction will be gone in the blink of an eye when labor costs go from a framing crew for a week to a few technicians running the 3d printer.

    Disruptive technologies are about to explode into mainstream culture; the past patterns will be come less and less relevant.
    Last edited by TargeT; 25th April 2017 at 19:13.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Hi Abmqa,

    Very interesting about Trump using the n word. But he's not a racist! LOL. And good call your Dad made avoiding him like the plague!

    I note too, the extreme departure from normal that his presidency represents. His open rudeness was seen as a breath of fresh air, after all of the blow dried, fake politicians we have suffered in the past.

    Unfortunately his rough rudeness was mistaken for GENERAL HONESTY. Big big mistake. And now, instead of taking a good hard look at the man's past and extrapolating into the present, his betrayed supporters are still clinging to the broken down hope wagon, while its wheels come off.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by abmqa (here)
    To think that we could have a US president who has stated that he has sexually assaulted women by grabbing them by their private parts is just incredible to me.

    This one point is a great example of why you don't understand how he got elected, and I don't understand how you don't understand


    haha, it's all about perception.

    You perceived that statement to be sexual assault.

    I heard "they let you do anything"... "let" being the short term for "consent" and further more; your acting like grown adults do NOT enjoy sex or "private part stimulation"; was it the childish "pussy" term usage that you objected to?

    Or did you just hear what you wanted to hear (or did I?)

    To me that whole thing was very weird, and it's turned out to be a fairly good litmus test for "where people stand" on a lot of issues.


    I think there were FAR too many situations like the above during the election for them NOT to be a strategy (plus they kind of parallel things written in "the art of the deal" ). And your right, it' was a crazy election; but if he didn't break records for "the least spent on an elected presidential campaign" I'd be shocked (good or bad, it was an effective strategy).
    Yes! I see that as sexual harrassment!!

    Perhaps you think it normal for a man to say such things. I'm a man and have never heard any other man say such a thing. I'm retired Air Force, and I can attest that I have heard many misogynist things said about women, but never, "I just grab them by the privates parts.

    See partial transcript below:

    Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

    Bush: Whatever you want.

    Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.


    Just because Trump says such things doesn't mean consent is given to such treatment, especially a woman who doesn't have a relationship with him.

    The comment, I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. Doesn't give you pause to think?

    I guess when you are like minded, it doesn't matter?

    "I don't even wait" Wait for what? I take that as he doesn't wait for consent, because he is famous and he can do anything he wants.

    WRONG!!

    Kissing a Former Miss USA Contestant Twice Without Consent

    Former Miss USA contestant Temple Taggart McDowell claims Trump kissed her on the lips on at least two occasions without consent when she was just 21 years old. In 1997, McDowell was representing Utah in the beauty pageant, and was “shocked” that he thought he had the right to kiss her on the lips, according to the Daily Beast. After one of the kisses, a woman who accompanied her to Trump Tower allegedly warned her not to go into a room alone with Trump. McDowell told NBC News, “I would never approach or greet somebody like that unless it was somebody that I had been dating.” Trump has called the accusation “ridiculous.”

    Groping a Woman Sitting Next to Him on a Plane

    In a New York Times report published October 12, Trump was accused of fondling the breasts of Jessica Leeds when she was 38 years old. Leeds, now 74, reportedly met Trump in the first-class cabin of a flight to New York more than 30 years ago, and claims he also attempted to reach under her skirt during the flight. She called the incident “an assault.” Trump has vehemently refuted the allegation.

    Kissing a Receptionist at Trump Tower Against Her Will

    Another revelation from the incendiary New York Times report: In 2005, receptionist Rachel Crooks was allegedly assaulted by Trump in the elevator at Trump Tower. She was working as a receptionist for a real-estate firm in the building when she ran into Trump in the elevator. After they shook hands, he allegedly refused to let go, kissed her on the cheeks, and also on the mouth. “It was so inappropriate,” Crooks told the Times. “I was so upset that he thought I was so insignificant that he could do that.” Trump has also denied this allegation.

    Saying He’d Date a 10-Year-Old Girl in Ten Years

    Newly emerged footage from CBS shows Trump talking about a 10-year-old girl’s physical appearance. In the tape, Trump joked: “I’ll be dating her in ten years. Can you believe it?”

    This isn’t the first time Trump has been accused of making inappropriate remarks about young women. He famously commented in 2006 that if Ivanka weren’t his daughter, he’d “perhaps” be dating her, and also gave Howard Stern the okay to refer to Ivanka as a “piece of ass.” He commented that then-12-year-old Paris Hilton caught his eye, telling Stern, “I’ve known Paris Hilton from the time she’s 12, her parents are friends of mine, and the first time I saw her she walked into the room and I said, ‘Who the hell is that?’”

    Telling Another Group of 14-Year-Olds He’d Date Them in a ‘Couple of Years’

    The Los Angeles Times reports that a wire brief from the Chicago Tribune in 1992 also references an instance when Trump made a joke about dating a young girl years in the future. The wire brief describes Trump outside the Plaza Hotel interacting with a youth choir group. After finding out that the girls were 14 years old, he said, “Wow! Just think — in a couple of years, I’ll be dating you.” Trump was 46 at the time.

    Sexually Assaulting a People Magazine Writer

    Natasha Stoynoff, a staff writer at People, came forward as an alleged victim of Trump on October 12. In an essay, Stoynoff wrote that Trump assaulted her and forcibly kissed her in 2005 while she was on assignment for the magazine. At the time, Stoynoff was asked to interview Trump and wife Melania on their one-year anniversary at Mar-a-Lago. While there, Trump allegedly insisted upon giving her a tour. Stoynoff wrote:

    “We walked into that room alone, and Trump shut the door behind us. I turned around, and within seconds, he was pushing me against the wall, and forcing his tongue down my throat. Now, I’m a tall, strapping girl who grew up wrestling two giant brothers. I even once sparred with Mike Tyson. It takes a lot to push me. But Trump is much bigger — a looming figure — and he was fast, taking me by surprise, and throwing me off balance. I was stunned. And I was grateful when Trump’s longtime butler burst into the room a minute later, as I tried to unpin myself.”

    Afterward, Trump reportedly told Stoynoff that the two were going to have an affair. The writer says she didn’t report the assault at the time, as she both blamed herself and wrote it off as one of the risks associated with her job.

    Groping a Woman at Mar-a-Lago

    Mindy McGillivray claims Donald Trump groped her 13 years ago while she was visiting Mar-a-Lago with her companion, photographer Ken Davidoff. According to the Palm Beach Post, Davidoff brought his friend McGillivray with him to the estate while he covered a concert by Ray Charles. Only 23 at the time, McGillivray allegedly had her ass grabbed by Trump while he stood next to his then-fiancée, Melania.

    She said, “All of a sudden I felt a grab, a little nudge. I think it’s Ken’s camera bag, that was my first instinct. I turn around and there’s Donald. He sort of looked away quickly. I quickly turned back, facing Ray Charles, and I’m stunned.’’ McGillivray claims Trump also flirted with her a year earlier when she attended a different event with Davidoff.

    Groping Miss Washington USA 2013

    In a Facebook post earlier this year, former Miss Washington USA Cassandra Searles claimed Trump grabbed her ass and invited her back to his hotel room, according to Rolling Stone. She called Trump a “misogynist” and accused him of treating women like cattle. Searles wrote that he “lined up [contestants] so he could get a closer look at his property,” a claim that has been corroborated by Paromita Mitra of Mississippi.

    Walking in on Teen Pageant Contestants While They Were Changing

    Four women who competed in the 1997 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant have accused Trump of walking into their dressing room while the contestants were changing, BuzzFeed News reported. Mariah Billado, a former Miss Vermont Teen USA, told BuzzFeed News that the contestants (who ranged in age from 14 to 19) were “just scrambling” to grab whatever garments they had when he walked in. She said, “I remember putting on my dress really quick because I was like, ‘Oh my god, there’s a man in here.’” Trump reportedly said something along the lines of, “Don’t worry, I’ve seen it all before.”

    Groping Makeup Artist Jill Harth in 1997

    Makeup artist Jill Harth filed a lawsuit against Trump in 1997, accusing him of cornering her and groping her in his daughter’s bedroom. Harth and Trump allegedly first met in December 1992 during a business presentation — she and her former romantic partner George Houraney wanted him to back their American Dream festival — and Trump is accused of “subjecting her to a steady string of sexual advances,” The Guardian reports. The night after the initial business meeting, Trump and Harth had dinner at the Plaza Hotel’s Oak Room, where he allegedly groped her under the table.

    In January 1993, when Harth and Houraney visited Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s Florida estate, he allegedly pulled her into one of his children’s bedrooms, pushed her up against the wall, groped her, and tried to get under her dress again. Harth has accused him of “attempted rape,” while Trump has called the allegations “meritless.”

    Raping Ex-Wife Ivana, But Not in the “Criminal Sense”

    The 1993 book Lost Tycoon: The Many Lives of Donald J. Trump revealed that, in depositions for their contentious divorce case, Ivana Trump accused her then-husband of rape. The Daily Beast reported that, in the book, Harry Hurt III wrote that Trump confronted Ivana after a painful scalp reduction surgery to reduce his bald spot. He allegedly yelled that her “****ing doctor” ruined him, and then held back her arms and pulled out fistfuls of hair from Ivana’s scalp, before ripping off her clothes and forcing his penis inside her.

    Trump previously denied the allegation, including the scalp surgery. “It’s obviously false,” Donald Trump reportedly said in 1993. “It’s incorrect and done by a guy without much talent … He is a guy that is an unattractive guy who is a vindictive and jealous person.” Trump’s legal counsel told the Daily Beast that Ivana was talking about how “she felt raped emotionally … She was not referring to it [as] a criminal matter, and not in its literal sense, though there’s many literal senses to the word.”

    ****-Shaming Former Miss Universe Alicia Machado

    Alicia Machado won Trump’s Miss Universe pageant in 1996, and he has since called her “Miss Housekeeping” (because she is Venezuelan) and “Miss Piggy” (because she gained too much weight, in his opinion). After Machado became a talking point in his election for president, Trump took the extra step of publicly ****-shaming her. In a series of 5 a.m. tweets, Trump accused Machado of having a sex tape — which he urged voters to “check out.”

    Sexually Harassing a Woman During the 1993 White House Correspondents’ Dinner

    When Vanity Fair editor Graydon Carter invited Trump to the White House Correspondents’ Dinner in 1993 as a “novelty guest,” he allegedly got more than he bargained for. Forty-five minutes after Trump sat down next to Swedish model Vendela Kirsebom, Carter claims she came over to his table, almost in tears, begging him to move her. “It seems that Trump had spent his entire time with her assaying the ‘tits’ and legs of the other female guests and asking how they measured up to those of other women, including his wife,” Carter wrote. ‘“He is,’ she told me, in words that seemed familiar, ‘the most vulgar man I have ever met.’”

    Mistreating His Female Employees

    An ongoing investigation by USA Today into the 4,000-plus lawsuits against Trump found that at least 20 separate lawsuits accuse the presidential candidate and managers of his companies “of discriminating against women, ignoring sexual harassment complaints and even participating in the harassment themselves.”

    Trump was not directly involved in all of the lawsuits, which ranged in severity, but in one, he was accused of directing a female supervisor at a golf club to hire more attractive women. “I want you to get some good-looking hostesses here,” Trump told Sue Kwiatkowski, a supervisor at the club, according to USA Today. Kwiatkowski also alleged that he said, “People like to see good-looking people when they come in.”

    In another lawsuit, a waitress alleged that Trump repeatedly flirted with her. USA Today also discovered at least three lawsuits in which women claimed they lost their jobs at a Trump company for complaining about sexual discrimination or harassment at work.

    Bragging About Grabbing Women by Their Pussies

    Trump was caught on tape bragging to former Access Hollywood host Billy Bush about sexually assaulting women. The lewd conversation took place while the men were visiting the set of Days of Our Lives in 2005. Trump was caught talking about a failed attempt to seduce a married woman (later revealed to be former Access host Nancy O’Dell), saying, “I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married.”

    The men were then distracted by actress Arianne Zucker, prompting Trump to declare that he was going to use some Tic Tacs in case he started kissing her. “You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star they let you do it,” Trump says. “You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.”

    Trying to Get Nancy O’Dell Fired for Being Pregnant

    Trump has been accused of trying to get Nancy O’Dell fired from her job as a host for the Miss USA pageant after she rejected his advances (as detailed in the Access Hollywood tape), according to the Daily Beast. Trump allegedly did not like the way she looked in 2007, since O’Dell was several months pregnant and thereby not living up to Trump’s standards of appearance. However, O’Dell was under contract with NBC, and the network opted to keep her in place as a host, much to Trump’s chagrin.

    Raping a 13-Year-Old at Jeffrey Epstein’s Apartment

    A woman has accused Trump of raping her in 1994 when she was just 13 years old, according to BuzzFeed News. Trump has “vehemently denied the rape claims, which are being filed in a New York civil court for the third time,” BuzzFeed News reported. According to the suit, Trump allegedly had forcible sex with the plaintiff during a party at the New York City apartment of Jeffrey Epstein, a convicted pedophile who is a billionaire. In June 2016, Jezebel reported that the coverage of the lawsuit was “the culmination of an almost year-long campaign to quietly push these allegations into the public discussion, and maybe make some money in the process.”

    Hiring Women Based on Appearances

    Trump gave writer Mark Singer a tour of Mar-a-Lago for an article in The New Yorker in 1997. Singer wrote that Trump introduced him to the property’s resident physician, Dr. Ginger Lea Southall. When she was out of earshot, Singer asked Trump where Southall had been trained.

    Trump replied, “I’m not sure. Baywatch Medical School? Does that sound right? I’ll tell you the truth. Once I saw Dr. Ginger’s photograph, I didn’t really need to look at her résumé or anyone else’s. Are you asking, ‘Did we hire her because she’d trained at Mount Sinai for fifteen years?’ The answer is no. And I’ll tell you why: because by the time she’s spent fifteen years at Mount Sinai, we don’t want to look at her.”

    Groping a Woman at a Manhattan Nightclub

    Kristin Anderson, who worked as a model and makeup artist in New York in the early 1990s, told the Washington Post that Donald Trump groped her when she found herself sitting next to him on a couch at a Manhattan nightclub. “It wasn’t a sexual come-on. I don’t know why he did it. It was like just to prove that he could do it, and nothing would happen,” she told the Post. “There was zero conversation. We didn’t even really look at each other. It was very random, very nonchalant on his part.”

    Anderson said she was motivated to come forward with her story after seeing the Access Hollywood tape in which Trump bragged about sexual assaulting women. “I watched this woman — who could have been me; it could have been anyone — walk in and shake his hand,” she said. “That was just nauseating, because she has no idea what she was walking into, and what could possibly happen to her. And that’s just wrong.”

    Groping and Kissing a Former Apprentice Contestant

    Summer Zervos, a contestant on the fifth season of The Apprentice, says she was both kissed and groped by Trump after her run on the show was over and she was discussing possible employment opportunities with him. She alleges that he had her meet him at his bungalow in the Beverly Hills Hotel, where he kissed her, groped her, and thrust his genitals at her. Because she was up for employment within his organization, Zervos says “I wondered if the sexual behavior was some kind of test, or whether or not I had passed.”

    She came forward after seeing the other allegations against Trump in a press conference with famed attorney Gloria Allred. When a reporter asked what she hoped would come from the allegations, Zervos responded, “I want to be able to sleep when I’m 70 at night.”

    Kissing a Mar-a-Lago Guest at a Mother’s Day Brunch

    Cathy Heller and her family were enjoying a Mother’s Day brunch at the Mar-a-Lago Club when Trump came by to introduce himself. According to Heller, Trump aggressively kissed her in front of her family — including three children and various in-laws — and other members of the club after a brief introduction.

    Trump didn’t stop at shaking Heller’s hand. “He took my hand, and grabbed me, and went for the lips,” she told The Guardian.

    Alarmed, she said she leaned backwards to avoid him and almost lost her balance. “And he said, ‘Oh, come on.’ He was strong. And he grabbed me and went for my mouth and went for my lips.” She turned her head, she claims, and Trump planted a kiss on the side of her mouth. “He kept me there for a little too long,” Heller said. “And then he just walked away.”

    “I was angry and shaken,” she continued. “He was pissed. He couldn’t believe a woman would pass up the opportunity.” She added that he seemed to feel “entitled” to kiss her.

    The Guardian interviewed a relative who was present at the brunch, as well as a friend whom Keller had told about the incident well before the 2005 tape was released.

    Groping a Woman Outside the 1998 U.S. Open Tennis Championship

    During a press conference with attorney Gloria Allred, Karena Virginia told reporters she was standing outside the 1998 U.S. Open Tennis Championship in Flushing, Queens, waiting for a car to take her home when Donald Trump approached her. She said she knew who he was, but she’d never met him.

    “I was quite surprised when I overheard him talking to the other men about me,” Virginia said. “He said, ‘Hey, look at this one; we haven’t seen her before. Look at those legs,’ as though I was an object rather than a person. He then walked up to me and reached his right arm and grabbed my right arm. Then his hand touched the right inside of my breast. I was in shock. I flinched. ‘Don’t you know who I am? Don’t you know who I am?’ That’s what he said to me. I felt intimidated, and I felt powerless. Then my car pulled up and I got in.” She was 27 at the time.

    According to Allred, Virginia is not considering a lawsuit against Trump at this time. She said she hesitated to speak up for fear Trump would call her a liar or “just another ‘nasty woman,’” but in the end the Access Hollywood tape and Trump’s own denial of his history of sexual assault prompted her to speak up.

    Groping Miss Finland in 2006 Before Appearing With Her on the Late Show With David Letterman

    Ninni Laaksonen claimed on October 27 that Donald Trump grabbed her bottom in New York in 2006, shortly after she was crowned Miss Finland, the Telegraph reports. After being contacted by local paper Ilta-Sanomat, Laaksonen said Trump groped her moments before she was set to appear on the Late Show With David Letterman, alongside Trump himself and three other contestants.

    “Before the show we were photographed outside the building,” Laaksonen said. “Trump stood right next to me and suddenly he squeezed by butt. He really grabbed by butt. I don’t think anybody saw it but I flinched and thought: ‘What is happening?’”



    I quote you here

    "This one point is a great example of why you don't understand how he got elected, and I don't understand how you don't understand "


    Seems to me that you are the confused one, or such a Trumpist that you can overlook such criminal behavior in order to justify your ongoing support.

    Do a little research...it's all there for us to see.
    Last edited by abmqa; 25th April 2017 at 20:01.

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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Quote Posted by abmqa (here)
    Perhaps you think it normal for a man to say such things. I'm a man and have never heard any other man say such a thing. I'm retired Air Force, and I can attest that I have heard many misogynist things said about women, but never, "I just grab them by the privates parts.
    Well, I am also a man; I played football, wrestled and joined the military strait out of highschool; to this day I know people that talk in that "mannor", I just don't hang out with those people.

    Phones are passed around with pictures of females and the question is posed "smash or pass" and these are (as far as I can tell) loving fathers and dedicated husbands.


    I think that is a completely seperate topic however, and a complex one (how sex and sexuality is treated in western society, or even how different it is from region to region, California vs South Carolina for example).


    Quote Posted by abmqa (here)
    See partial transcript below:

    Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

    Bush: Whatever you want.

    Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.


    Just because Trump says such things doesn't mean consent is given to such treatment, especially a woman who doesn't have a relationship with him.
    And if you simply work with the facts available, that does not sound like sexual assault to me.

    But I don't pick up and run with every rumor I hear, or at least try my best not to.


    Quote Posted by abmqa (here)

    "This one point is a great example of why you don't understand how he got elected, and I don't understand how you don't understand "


    Seems to me that you are the confused one, or such a Trumpist that you can overlook such criminal behavior in order to justify your ongoing support.

    Do a little research...it's all there for us to see.

    I agree that's a disturbing list; but not at all what I was referring to. Your taking a historical contextual look with a lot of unsubstantiated testimony (and as of yet, not a single conviction?) which you are taking for granted as "true"; I will not do that.

    If you come to my island you can find rumors that I "rescue horses, starve them so I can get good "before" and "after" photos, and then fatten them back up to say I rescued them.

    I've been accused more times than I can count that I steal horses.

    Being a SUPER MINOR public figure has garnished me AND my family a small list like the above (no sexual harassment stuff, but a **** LOAD of people attempting character assassination due to what ever motivation). And that's not a position most people will ever be in during their life spans.

    Do you know what it's like to constantly run into people that know you, know your life, know your wife, your kids, your pets.. and you have no clue who they are? What happens when that obsession slips to the dark side?

    I can't imagine what true "celebrityhood" is like after my small taste of it... it's got to be pretty ****ty.

    Sexual harassment is a problem and it does happen a lot, so are false rape claims and false sexual harassment claims; I've seen a good amount of both, enough that I need some sort of evidence.
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    Default Re: Trump is NOT the answer

    Well, it's all pretty appalling and yet still many people preferred the overt third world style pig over a slick Willie type. Clinton was as bad or worse.

    I am not personally offended by Trump's escapades. I find them creepy but I just don't care what he does and with who as long as nobody is being assaulted.

    I am far more concerned about him molesting entire countries.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 25th April 2017 at 20:21.

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