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Thread: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by abmqa (here)
    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    ]If we don't start differentiating in our thinking, speaking and discussing, that is, being careful how we name things, discussion is meaningless.
    You are absolutely correct with this statement

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    The purpose of modern immigration is to dilute and disempower the white race in every white or formerly white country.
    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    The globalists are white but they do not practice 'diversity' or identify with whites outside of their class. They preach and mandate diversity to us peasants but they marry only their own class - that is what a ruling class does.
    Your comments started me thinking. In particular where you say the "white race" and "white country".

    It made me wonder what does it mean to be "White"? But not only white in a "white society" but the social impacts that affect all of the people living in a "white country" or society.

    The following is a perspective from a "white" person.

    I'd be very interested in hearing your views.

    By Robin DiAngelo

    I AM white. I have spent years studying what it means to be white in a society that proclaims race meaningless, yet is deeply divided by race. This is what I have learned: Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture.

    But mainstream sources — schools, textbooks, media and anecdotal evidence — don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate.

    This illiteracy was evident in the debate about the Seattle Gilbert & Sullivan Society production of “The Mikado” and its casting of non-Asian actors in 40 Japanese roles.

    To understand the crux of white racial illiteracy illustrated by the debate, consider a typical computer user. The user is proficient and knows all the basics — Word, email, spreadsheets. But when the user has a technical problem and tries to explain it to the IT department, communication breaks down. The user gets defensive, feeling talked down to by tech support. Tech support gets frustrated because the user doesn’t know how computers actually work and can’t comprehend its instructions.

    Like a nontechnical user trying to understand a technical problem, our racial illiteracy limits our ability to have meaningful conversations about race.

    Mainstream dictionary definitions reduce racism to racial prejudice and the personal actions that result. But this definition does little to explain how racial hierarchies are consistently reproduced.

    Social scientists define racism as a multidimensional, highly adaptive system — a system that ensures an unequal distribution of resources among racial groups. The group that controls the institutions controls the distribution and embeds its racial bias into the fabric of society.

    In the U.S., while individual whites might be against racism, they still benefit from their group’s control. Yes, an individual person of color can sit at the tables of power, but the overwhelming majority of decision-makers will be white. Yes, white people can have problems and face barriers, but systematic racism won’t be one of them.

    This distinction — between individual prejudice and a system of unequal institutionalized racial power — is fundamental. One cannot understand how racism functions in the U.S. today if one ignores group power relations.

    While the following do not apply to every white person, they are well-documented white patterns and beliefs that make it difficult for white people to understand racism as a system:

    Segregation: Most whites live, grow, play, learn, love, work and die primarily in racial segregation. Yet, our society does not teach us to see this as a loss. Pause for a moment and consider the magnitude of this message: We lose nothing of value by not having cross-racial relationships. In fact, the whiter our schools and neighborhoods are, the more likely they are to be seen as “good.” This is an example of the relentless messages of white superiority that circulate all around us, shaping our identities and perspectives.

    Individualism: Whites are taught to see themselves as individuals, rather than as part of a racial group. It follows that we are racially objective and thus can represent the universal human experience, while people of color can only represent their race. Seeing ourselves as unracialized individuals, we take umbrage when generalizations are made about us as a group. This enables us to ignore systemic racial patterns.

    Focus on intentions over impact: We are taught that racism must be intentional and that only bad people commit it. Thus a common white reasoning in cross-racial conflicts is that as long as we are good people and didn’t intend to perpetuate racism, then our actions don’t count as racism. But racism doesn’t depend on conscious intent. In fact, much of racism is unconscious. Further, when we focus on intent we are essentially saying that the impact of our behavior on others is irrelevant.

    White fragility: In a white dominant society, challenges to a white worldview are uncommon. The racial status quo is comfortable for us. We haven’t had to develop the skills, perspectives, or humility that would help us engage constructively. As a result, we have very little tolerance for racial discomfort and respond poorly.

    Putting this all together, you get the outcomes we see in “The Mikado” controversy.

    When actors audition, they are most often judged by white people, using white standards for roles written by white writers and intended for white audiences. The outcomes of a specific audition are the cumulative result of this historic control.

    Precisely because the system reflects white interests and worldview, white people will not see any of this in racial terms. They are confident that we can represent all of humanity — if no Asian actors apply, we don’t question casting efforts.

    Because the egregious depictions of Asians in the opera are not intended as racist (and because so many whites enjoy these depictions), the racist impact is denied. When racism is pointed out, umbrage ensues.

    The understanding of racism as a social system of unequal power is generally termed antiracism. An antiracism framework will help any white person become more racially literate and navigate most any racial conflict. We can begin by acknowledging ourselves as having a particular and necessarily limited perspective on race. That acknowledgment engenders humility rather than certitude.

    Thinking in terms of structures and patterns, not individual acts or good and bad people, is foundational. Putting ourselves in situations that challenge and stretch our racial worldviews, while uncomfortable, builds our racial stamina.

    Finally, we need to focus on impact rather than intent. On Aug. 18, the Seattle Repertory Theatre and the City of Seattle are holding a community dialogue about “The Mikado.” This is a great opportunity for whites to practice these skills.

    Let me be clear. I don’t see myself or other whites as bad. Racism is a system that we did not create, but it’s one that we did inherit. We must take responsibility to see and challenge it both within and around us. The first step? Have some humility and listen.

    Robin DiAngelo is an associate professor of education at Westfield State University in Massachusetts. She teaches and writes extensively on whiteness. Her latest book is “What Does it Mean to Be White? Developing White Racial Literacy.

    Sorry about the misaligned quotes. I'm such a noob to this editing system
    Hi Abmqa
    Sorry for the delay in responding, you had asked my opinion on the Teacher/Agent above's mind control course. Why do I call her an agent? Many moons ago I was an activist in college. I belonged to socialist and feminist activities. We would worry about government Cointelpro provocateurs of any sort disrupting meetings and events. If you go to Wikipedia they will claim that the gov disbanded Cointelpro. If you believe that I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. Not only do I not believe cointelpro was disbanded but because of technology and the global village it has become huge, well funded and elaborate. There are quite a number of these 'teachers' around teaching being caucasian is the same as having an infectious disease. My money is that they will never direct the poison towards the whites who own the banks and corporations in the western world - why? It is these whites through their many layers of control who are funneling remuneration to these teacher/agents. The purpose of their poison is to make the average caucasian who never hurt anyone, who is struggling to survive, have no control over history or current events, feel like crap. It is evil. I have alluded to why the white ruling class of the west needs to decimate caucasian culture on the road to their one world government and don't wish to go into it here. Suffice to say - IMHO - she is a paid agent. Thx

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by marique3652 (here)
    Ok, I get your point, and have been summarily kicked to the curb. I will delete the post as it "does not belong on Project Avalon" as you say. I guess the only people who should comment are the people who agree with things, so I have learned my lesson. I see what is going on in the world in other countries and do not want that for the US. That is my option, I will just keep my fears to myself and not share anything here. I rarely post anyway for the reason that if one does not feel the same way as the consensus, it just pisses everyone off. So you stand victorious in squelching my opinion and right to have one. I guess it comes from raising 11 sons, my protective streak of seeing danger for my sons and trying to avert disaster. But you are right, one should not care about this countries welfare, let it be a free for all, to be a nice person. I GUESS I SUCK.
    Marique - please don't let yourself be bullied. I hope you don't delete your self-expression. If this forum turns into UC Berkeley then the lights have gone out on the internet as far as I'm concerned.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    It would be so nice if somehow the matter as noted in the thread title could actually be discussed maturely and so I will once again try to do so without inviting the "you can't do anything about anything because of the evil all powerful illumed and nutty so why are you pretending you can" crowd.

    I just can't teach (by my actions... through my words and deeds) to my children to just accept an "inevitable" demise. Despite what the opposition may appear to be. I just cannot teach futility to my loved ones.

    I wonder... has anyone even considered the history of the matter?

    Let me ask this. Does the last few hundred years of US "nationhood" have any impact upon the subject? Even if you believe its all staged and all run remotely by a small group of elite generational families who may be controlled by other worldly beings (of which I am actually quite open minded about)...

    Can we not at least explore how... from the ground up, we might try and repair our world? Perhaps behave in a way differently from the way we appear to have behaved (at least most of the masses) for far too long which this very elite points to when justifying what they do?

    So look at nations. Does a nation have the right to keep its citizens safe and to manage who comes into their country, how they come in, on what terms they come in and how someone might become a resident and even a citizen?

    And so look at the question of - "what gives the current batch of folks in the US any rights to do any of this when they stole it all anyways?"

    And then you can ask, how is there any justification to blame folks alive today for what happened a few hundred or more years ago?

    Why can we not explore these types of questions so that perhaps we might find some sort of common ground from which we could explore big picture solutions without allowing our emotions to be eaten up?

    Are the folks here willing to try? Are we capable?
    Last edited by Chester; 30th April 2017 at 23:43.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by marique3652 (here)
    Ok, I get your point, and have been summarily kicked to the curb. I will delete the post as it "does not belong on Project Avalon" as you say. I guess the only people who should comment are the people who agree with things, so I have learned my lesson. I see what is going on in the world in other countries and do not want that for the US. That is my option, I will just keep my fears to myself and not share anything here. I rarely post anyway for the reason that if one does not feel the same way as the consensus, it just pisses everyone off. So you stand victorious in squelching my opinion and right to have one. I guess it comes from raising 11 sons, my protective streak of seeing danger for my sons and trying to avert disaster. But you are right, one should not care about this countries welfare, let it be a free for all, to be a nice person. I GUESS I SUCK.
    If you are going to edit a post, you might want to have a look at this one too.

    "I get your point, and have been summarily kicked to the curb."
    No, you weren't "kicked to the curb" - the bigotry you expressed was.


    "the only people who should comment are the people who agree with things"
    You know this is a disingenuous statement. There are hundreds of discussions here at Avalon with disagreements and differences of opinion.


    "I see what is going on in the world in other countries and do not want that for the US."
    So, you want to protect the USA from immigrants, refugees, ... non-whites? The country founded by racist, white, aristocratic, European "landed gentry" on the corpses of perhaps 100 million indigenous people with different ("red") colored skin and culture than the European occupiers? You want to protect the primary destination country of human traffickers - the (Black) slave traders? The last country on Earth to abolish (overt) slavery? The USA is controlled by terrorists CAUSING almost all of the "hell on Earth" - so, do you want to protect that aspect of the USA, INC. too, or just the white fantasy Leave It To Beaver-style illusion of the way you want white-controlled USA to be?


    "you stand victorious in squelching my opinion and right to have one"
    This is such bull****. Are you really declaring yourself a victim, because you don't get to express overt bigotry on Avalon?



    "But you are right, one should not care about this countries welfare, let it be a free for all, to be a nice person."
    This is a triple strawman argument, and an attempt to deflect from the real reason I posted: shocking bigotry.

    "but you are right" is a disingenuous lead-in, followed by attempts to mischaracterize what I actually said and what it means.

    One should, of course, care about their country's welfare - but that does not equate to nurturing bigotry. Allowing someone the freedom to express their cultural heritage and/or religion - or {gasp} to immigrate their non-white self to the USA - is not a "free for all" (which indicates chaos, and is fear-mongering), and the phrase "be a nice person" attempts to discount and characterize anti-bigotry as just being silly political correctness.


    "my protective streak of seeing danger for my sons and trying to avert disaster."
    On 9/11, I held my baby daughter in my arms and cried. I cried in fear that I could not protect her. On that day, I believed that radical Muslims attacked the USA - because the people that actually committed the crimes told me that radical Muslims attacked the USA.

    I didn't stay stuck there.

    I did hundreds and hundreds of hours of research, and now I understand that no Muslims were involved in the 9/11 event. None. The real culprits (most of whom have white skin, by the way: the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the PNAC-faction of the then-current US government, CIA brass, and the Israeli Mossad) pointed fingers at their pre-selected scapegoat: Muslims - and ALMOST ALL OF US fell for it. I forgive myself (and all of us) for falling for it on day one (9/11) and shortly thereafter, but I do NOT forgive anyone who never figured out that Muslims had nothing to do with 9/11 and who have jumped on the psychopathic criminals' bandwagon of blaming Muslims for their (neocon, white-skinned, pseudo-Christian) false-flag crimes.

    Yes, I realize that the USA was a steaming pile of bigotry even before 9/11 and that there were white-skinned people who felt superior to all other skin tones and who believed that their own (cherry-picked) "Christian" beliefs are right and all others are wrong. I also realize that, due to the imperialist take-over and destruction of their Middle Eastern or Northern African countries - by the corporatist-militarist USA, INC. - that millions and millions of refugees were forced to emigrate, and some have had cultural clashes where they ended up. It is impossible to immediately "assimilate" into a new culture under these conditions (that you and I cannot even begin to imagine.) Think about cultural assimilation for a minute. Think of your own (ethnic/heritage/religious) culture and think about how much you would change culturally - and how fast - if the USA was bombed to smithereens and you had to flee to Mexico. Also think of the fact that after having lived your life for decades with whatever culture you have, you may not want to "fully assimilate" and may want to hold to some or even all of your own culture. Talk to anyone in the world that has dealt with "American" ex-pats and they will tell you that the US citizens generally do not assimilate into the local culture, but rather cling to other US ex-pats in "American enclaves." So don't even tell me (you too, Helene West) that you would assimilate into a foreign culture if you were forced to emigrate there. You know you wouldn't "fully assimilate", yet you expect other refugees to do it... and to "hurry the hell up!"

    Project Avalon is about the coming together of humanity, not its division. Bigotry and racism are not welcome at Avalon. The real history of the world, and in particular of the USA, is horrific in its racism, and we need to focus on healing ourselves and celebrating the utter uniqueness (not just the "diversity" of groups of individuals) of each human. This is the opposite of what Rockefeller and Carnegie's agenda was when they took over the education system in the US (and adapted by Europe) to homogenize humanity and train the stupid slobs (that would be us) just enough to perform tasks in their industrial enterprises (factories.) THIS is where you first got the idea that your forced homogenization was "culture."

    By the way, it is just possible that the "Global Controllers" did not intentionally create millions of refugees with some great nefarious plan, but rather just didn't give a rat's ass where the victims that weren't murdered ended up after their country was stolen. Maybe the supposed "controllers" are just apex capitalists, and really are just a cluster of greedy bastards that want all the resources and the regional military control to keep control of the stolen resources. They certainly do control wealth and power. We do have some strong indications that these global owners/controllers want to keep us infighting and to stay fractured, and to never unite to defeat them. For this, note that they promote a race war or a religious war - because neither one touches them and keeps us divided. The war they don't want is the CLASS war, the one where all the stupid slobs somehow unite and easily take the power away from the controllers. The fact that you are sucked-in to the agenda of the controllers should tell you something.

    Racism and bigotry are indoctrinated into US soldiers, dehumanizing the "enemy" (who is really the victim) to make it easier to carry out the orders to murder them. This is official policy of the US government's military. Besides the US military, (I have never looked but I suspect that), there are plenty of places in cyberspace to spew frothing-at-the-mouth racist rants, and there are always KKK gatherings. So, if one has racism and bigotry in their heart, and isn't even trying to heal from it, there are other places that welcome it.


    Quote Posted by Sam Hunter (here)
    ...Funny how so many folks that are worried about endangered species are bent on the endangerment of free speech.
    Sam and turiya and Helene and others promoting the idea that tries to pretend that this is a free speech issue, just stop it. Promoting racism and bigotry as "free speech" is about like saying that the police using LRAD (sound cannons) are exercising free speech. The INTENT of racism and bigotry, written and spoken, is discrediting, dismissing, and degrading, frightening, intimidating, and assaulting another group of people based on race/ethnicity and/or religion. It is the opposite of "free." Compassionate, loving, spiritually-advancing people don't promote racism and bigotry, nor do they try to characterize racism and bigotry as free speech.


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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Leahy
    I don't know if this forum has an Ignore button or if I can ignore moderators. This isn't UC Berkeley.

    You're translating Sam's, mine and Turiya's post via your filter and don't have the honesty to cop to that. You're misinterpreting other people as it doesn't fit your narrative and now want to control us. Marinque sounded bullied and in my opinion, by you. I'm against racism but that also includes racism against caucasians. It's real and I'm not deviating. People don't have to read my posts. Change the forum to the "Feel Good Forum Or Else" if differences of perspectives other than Leahy's isn't allowed.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Thanks dennis and Abmqa. I was starting to think everyone on this site was okay with the casual racism being expressed. I feel like I am living in bizzaro world or something. Im just glad that the anti different human people are finally expressing their bigotry outloud so we know who they are.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    My target, for anyone actually reading my posts, is the ruling class, in the west they are caucasian. They have been my target. I've made that clear maybe 7 or 8 times. But folks don't read, they peruse looking for their buzz words that they like or don't like. This is what the left is doing to conservative, even middle of the road people all over this country. This is what facebook, twitter, etc is doing. Hopefully this forum doesn't become UC Berkeley as far as the political thread is concerned.
    No apologies to the insecure or those needing to control others.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    My target, for anyone actually reading my posts, is the ruling class, in the west they are caucasian. They have been my target. I've made that clear maybe 7 or 8 times. But folks don't read, they peruse looking for their buzz words that they like or don't like. This is what the left is doing to conservative, even middle of the road people all over this country. This is what facebook, twitter, etc is doing. Hopefully this forum doesn't become UC Berkeley as far as the political thread is concerned.
    No apologies to the insecure or those needing to control others.
    This will be the last time I respond to you in this thread. Again, you have accused people of having no reading comprehension. I responded to your main post piece by piece and did not cherry pick. Yet you didnt even acknowledge anything I said. And have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe we did read what you said but rejected it? I truly do not think you understand what the ideals of america are. Have you even read the bill of rights or the constitution?

    Furthermore, Avalon is a private place. They get to control what happens here. You can speak freely, but they can also kick you out for what you say. THis doesnt violate your free speech, it is them exercising their property rights. You do believe in property rights yes? Free speech is in the realm of government interaction, not when you are in a private place. Reddit, Avalon, Twitter are well within their rights as property owners to exercise full control over their property and what happens in it. You are within your rights not to use their services. If they abuse it too much they die so there is a balance to be found.

    Dennis bullied nobody.

    Dennis did bully an idea that was expressed by somebody but you are not your ideas, which is a good thing.

    Do you ever notice Helene that you speak in memes? I challenge you not use buzzwords, which you just accused us of doing, like LEFT or UC BERKLEY SHARIA etc.
    On a pedantic note, Dennis was not translating what anybody said he was simply quoting. While you might think he was misrepresenting what you said, he was most certainly not mistranslating. Translation is taking one language and turning it into another while keeping the meaning intact or from one medium to another. Neither of these definitions work here.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    The purpose of modern immigration is to dilute and disempower the white race in every white or formerly white country.
    I think your heart is in the right place Dennis, but I think Marique's heart was in the right place also.
    If Marique had replaced the phrase "white race" with "middle class" I'm of the opinion that no one would have had a problem with what she was saying.
    I don't think Marique is racist and or meant any more than that, some folks simply choose the wrong wording for their posts and I think that is what happened here.


    Quote Posted by 9ofClubs (here)
    Thanks dennis and Abmqa. I was starting to think everyone on this site was okay with the casual racism being expressed. I feel like I am living in bizzaro world or something. Im just glad that the anti different human people are finally expressing their bigotry outloud so we know who they are.
    I think the elite know very well how to divide the people of this country and have us fighting with one another and I'm of the opinion that this is what is happening here.
    I'm of the opinion that we as a whole agree on things a great amount of the time, but "they" have us fighting with eachother over syntax, grammer and other such things. We need to have unity and we need to try and not allow ourselves to be triggered.
    Just my 2 cents here.
    Last edited by DNA; 3rd May 2017 at 13:31.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Back in 1978, when I was a mere 20 years old, I got into some trouble with some marijuana (not a small amount) in Lubbock, Texas. I found myself in the Lubbock County jail.

    I recall one day one of the young black kids coming back from court. Just after he entered the cell block, he passed my cell and then stopped. He then glared at me and rushed in to drop kick me right in the chest. I was hurt bit not too bad... but what I really experienced was shock as I had done nothing to that kid. But I was compelled to implore, "Why??? Why did you do that?"

    I will never forget his exact words... "I just got sentenced to five years in the pen and the judge was white!"

    And guess what my compassionate, loving and spiritually advanced thought was?

    I understood, felt bad for the kid... didn't really have to forgive him as before I even had the chance to judge him, I considered what I knew of his life, his circumstances, his education and the world he grew up in which included the bias he was exposed to in his community and the messages he likely got from the culture (which includes the media) he had been exposed to.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    [QUOTE=DNA;1149796][QUOTE=Dennis Leahy;1149600]
    Quote Posted by marique3652 (here)
    Quote Posted by 9ofClubs (here)
    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    The purpose of modern immigration is to dilute and disempower the white race in every white or formerly white country.
    Just wow.

    You might need to ponder what it means to be American.
    I think your heart is in the right place Dennis, but I think Marique's heart was in the right place also.
    If Marique had replaced the phrase "white race" with "middle class" I'm of the opinion that no one would have had a problem with what she was saying.
    I don't think Marique is racist and or meant any more than that, some folks simply choose the wrong wording for their posts and I think that is what happened here.


    Quote Posted by 9ofClubs (here)
    Thanks dennis and Abmqa. I was starting to think everyone on this site was okay with the casual racism being expressed. I feel like I am living in bizzaro world or something. Im just glad that the anti different human people are finally expressing their bigotry outloud so we know who they are.
    I think the elite know very well how to divide the people of this country and have us fighting with one another and I'm of the opinion that this is what is happening here.
    I'm of the opinion that we as a whole agree on things a great amount of the time, but "they" have us fighting with each other over syntax, grammer and other such things. We need to have unity and we need to try and not allow ourselves to be triggered.
    Just my 2 cents here.
    I have another post written which I am, for now, holding back... and this is because my post says the same thing that I just read here in DNA's post. And DNA is saying it in a way that does not continue to throw gas on an already raging fire. Thanks DNA.

    Note I emphasized the point about Marique's heart as I felt the same and my PM to her 9 hours ago backs this up... and I do mean Marique.
    Last edited by Chester; 1st May 2017 at 02:31.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Quote Posted by Helene West (here)
    ...The purpose of modern immigration is to dilute and disempower the white race in every white or formerly white country.
    I think your heart is in the right place Dennis, but I think Marique's heart was in the right place also.
    If Marique had replaced the phrase "white race" with "middle class" I'm of the opinion that no one would have had a problem with what she was saying.
    I don't think Marique is racist and or meant any more than that, some folks simply choose the wrong wording for their posts and I think that is what happened here.
    I think you meant "Helene" when you said "Marique", and no, Helene said she is not going to back down or apologize to anyone. She has stated on several occasions that she is talking about "white people"/"Caucasians", not "middle class." As I said in my long post just above, there most certainly is division being sown and apparent attempts to characterize what is going on as a race war or religious war - because the LAST thing these controlling elite psychopaths want is for informed people to recognize that they are in a class war - which DOES make the Elite the obvious target. If Helene really does mean "class war" then she needs to get out an eraser and fix all of her messages of doom for "white" people who she says are under attack from non-white people. (She also speaks of "white country", and there is just no disguising that. I'm a US citizen, and the USA is not a white country (though the ruling class in the US is primarily white. The criteria for joining the Elite is money and power and sociopathy, not skin color.)

    99.999% of us are under full attack, in a CLASS war, by the upper upper (power/money) class, the Elite. That's the real war, and what we should be focused on. Think of an old Keystone Cops movie chase scene where the bad guys are up ahead in a pickup truck, throwing stuff out of the back of the truck. Our "job" is to not lose sight of them, to keep up the chase, not to get distracted or stopped by something they threw off the truck. "Immigration" is a real issue, was decades ago, and will be in decades, but this deliberate presentation of immigration as a racial/religious/cultural war fomented by the refugees of destroyed countries is an attempt by the Elite to get us off their scent, to forget that we are in a class war.


    I actually suspect that Marique is frightened, not racist, and that her fears - which fall directly in-line with the controllers' propaganda - came out sounding like a bigoted rant. My conjecture is that she has fallen victim to the sophisticated propaganda machine that is coming from the same group of people that orchestrated and executed and covered-up 9/11 and that need a scapegoat/boogeyman for the faux "war on terror." They still need people to equate being Muslim with being a terrorist. I have high hopes that Marique will figure out that her response was a fear-conditioned response.


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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Bingo Dennis... we are on the same page with regards to Marique (apologies to speak of another as a third person). I also was very glad to read your point about this being a class war and yes, you have many times pointed this out and I agree with this too. I am glad I did not post what I had written as it would not have expressed very much compassion, love and spiritual advancement. I only suggest that we try and be this way, do this for everyone here as best we can and for as long as we can.

    Ohhh and I understand my analogy post I made earlier could have been interpreted that I was suggesting free speech on this thread was being shut down. I was actually just expressing my own frustration over the very real attempts to shut down legitimate idea dissemination that has recently occurred at UC Berkley and had no intent to cite UC Berkley in the form of a buzz word. UC Berkley is ironically known as the home of the free speech movement which my 60 years here on Earth recalls fondly. What I was impressed by is that so many who identify themselves as leftists called out this very action which, for me, is heartening and which we must defend for this constitutional republic to continue as we have known it.
    Last edited by Chester; 1st May 2017 at 02:40.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    What is so ironic is that the very main point I hoped to make is the following -

    The whole entire "umbrella" that covers so many sub issues under one term... the US immigration issue. This very issue has been going on for decades and if one actually looks at it - for centuries. I will explain this if anyone is interested, but what I had hoped to focus on and the main point I wanted to make was that because the current incarnation of this issue can be seen to envelope at least 30 to 40 years... then one thing stands out to me far and above everything else.

    And that is that the only solution to the problem that would make any sense to me must consider the full 30 to 40 years result.

    And I what I see is that so many people have developed an attitude that those who are in the US illegally (and being undocumented is illegal... but it is only a civil violation) should be handled in ways where if they are identified by ICE (or whoever might be authorized to act to take action against these folks) should then be deported. And I cannot agree with this because to do so denies my own (and thus I assign this to all US citizens) responsibility and the responsibility we share in allowing the situation to become as it is today.

    ...and so back to focusing on the result of the last 30 - 40 years...

    And so the last person I see to be at fault is someone who has been economically depressed, has been under the rule of outlaws far more than the rule of law of a functioning government and who sees there's a land close by that demonstrates "just come on over," sees a land that has demonstrated this consistently for decades, sees a land with a better living standard that has granted amnesty twice... just a few miles or a few hundred miles away... again, the last person that should pay the price for taking the chance to come to the US is the folks who came here and overstayed their visas or who came across the border without clearing immigration.

    I see that it has been the US politicians that are at fault and the US voters who vote in these politicians. If the politicians are being bought off (and we know they are via lobbyists and campaign contributions) by businesses who perceive benefits from cheaper labor, it is still their fault and the voters fault. If the immigration laws on the books had been followed these last several decades, that's a whole different story, but to make these immigrants pay for what we all created and maintained for 30 - 40 years, to me, shows no heart and is certainly not what I, personally, support.

    And I only addressed just one of the sub issues underneath this very large umbrella.
    Last edited by Chester; 1st May 2017 at 03:07.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

    I think you meant "Helene" when you said "Marique", and no, Helene said she is not going to back down or apologize to anyone. She has stated on several occasions that she is talking about "white people"/"Caucasians", not "middle class." As I said in my long post just above, there most certainly is division being sown and apparent attempts to characterize what is going on as a race war or religious war - because the LAST thing these controlling elite psychopaths want is for informed people to recognize that they are in a class war - which DOES make the Elite the obvious target. If Helene really does mean "class war" then she needs to get out an eraser and fix all of her messages of doom for "white" people who she says are under attack from non-white people. (She also speaks of "white country", and there is just no disguising that. I'm a US citizen, and the USA is not a white country (though the ruling class in the US is primarily white. The criteria for joining the Elite is money and power and sociopathy, not skin color.)

    99.999% of us are under full attack, in a CLASS war, by the upper upper (power/money) class, the Elite. That's the real war, and what we should be focused on. Think of an old Keystone Cops movie chase scene where the bad guys are up ahead in a pickup truck, throwing stuff out of the back of the truck. Our "job" is to not lose sight of them, to keep up the chase, not to get distracted or stopped by something they threw off the truck. "Immigration" is a real issue, was decades ago, and will be in decades, but this deliberate presentation of immigration as a racial/religious/cultural war fomented by the refugees of destroyed countries is an attempt by the Elite to get us off their scent, to forget that we are in a class war.


    I actually suspect that Marique is frightened, not racist, and that her fears - which fall directly in-line with the controllers' propaganda - came out sounding like a bigoted rant. My conjecture is that she has fallen victim to the sophisticated propaganda machine that is coming from the same group of people that orchestrated and executed and covered-up 9/11 and that need a scapegoat/boogeyman for the faux "war on terror." They still need people to equate being Muslim with being a terrorist. I have high hopes that Marique will figure out that her response was a fear-conditioned response.

    In reading responses to quotes and such I think you are correct in that the phrase I quoted was originally Helene's.
    And this post by yourself Dennis is very well articulated and I agree with it 100%.
    But that being said Helene is extremely intelligent and understands and from what I've read agrees completely with what you are stating.
    In reading what Helene posted, that one small phrase "white race being under attack and diluted" isn't really all that damning of a phrase.
    If an Asian were to have said it you would have had no problem.
    If an African American would have said it you would have had no problem.
    If an American Indian would have stated it you would have had no problem with it.
    I think Dennis that you are a very caring and empathic individual, and you are old enough to have seen the wrongs done to other races by whites and to have seen white culture embrace stereo types that were unacceptable and you probably have a long history of confronting those wrongs and attempting to right them.
    But I ask you, if an Asian can be proud to be an Asian, and an American Indian can be proud to be an American Indian is it really that wrong for a white person to unapologetically embrace and delight in their own genetics?


    Why is it that if the topic of race comes up a white person needs to apologize for being white or be termed a racist?
    If a tone comes out of a white person in reference to race relations other than shame, regret and or apologetic then that person is termed a racist.


    Dennis I think you are a super smart dude, and you have a firm grasp of what is going on, but I think Helene just has some of the biggest balls on the forum and is speaking her truth and I personally do not have a problem with it.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Sam and turiya and Helene and others promoting the idea that tries to pretend that this is a free speech issue, just stop it.
    Dennis Leahy,
    You had not posted a quoted statement that I had made in this regard.
    Probably because there isn't one.

    You say that it is a class war. I would disagree. It is Consciousness vs Unconsciousness war!

    This is a war over keeping the populous from becoming more conscious. The priority is keeping the masses utterly & completely unconscious.

    This is why you have the Deep State so deeply embedded within the MSM corporate media outlets. Its to maintain the narrative... to keep up the constant flow of propaganda... non stop!

    Edit:

    As much as Alex Jones is disliked by many, there is one thing he's gotten right & that is the labeling of this war that is going on as an 'Infowar'!

    The battle of keeping the masses unconscious to what is really going on... to keep them remanining in the dark!

    It's truly an information war!
    Last edited by turiya; 1st May 2017 at 12:17.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    LoL....its plain to me segregation is still not popular....
    ONLY THE END OF THE WORLD IS THE END OF THE WORLD AND THIS AIN'T IT

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  30. Link to Post #57
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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    I'd like to report a personal story — just as it happened. If a camera had been following me, this is what it'd have recorded.

    Many years ago, in the early 2000s, I was driving through Leicester, in England, which I didn't know very well. I did know it was the first city in the UK where the white British population was a minority, but I'd hardly spent any time there.

    From Wikipedia:
    Ethnicity (2011)[4]
    • 45.1% White British
    • 5.4% Other White
    • 37.1% Asian
    • 6.2% Black
    • 3.5% Mixed Race
    • 2.6% other
    I needed a haircut, so I stopped and parked where I could see there was a hairdresser's. I walked in.

    17 Pakistani faces, all sitting or working there, simultaneously turned and stared at me. I was shocked, and probably looked it. Almost instinctively, I turned round and walked out. It was a totally bizarre experience, and one that I'd been quite unprepared for.

    Clearly, this was not a hairdresser's for white Englishmen. I was the one out of place there.

    I did not have a haircut that day. I dwelt on the incident all the way home, which was quite some distance away.

    Now, I am not a racist. I live in Ecuador, and love the local people. I prefer their company to most Americans I see here. I'd certainly rather live here than in England or the US.

    One of my friends I'm closer to than almost anyone else is Puerto Rican. I spent my young childhood in Ghana and Nigeria, and I love the African people. I've visited Africa many times since then, and have traveled extensively there — also in India, Nepal and Thailand. I'm a global citizen, really. I don't even like English people, very much.

    I spent a lot of time thinking about that brief incident in Leicester. There was something wrong. But it was nothing to do with color of skin, religion, or race.

    It was about culture.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 1st May 2017 at 04:04.

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    By the way, it is just possible that the "Global Controllers" did not intentionally create millions of refugees with some great nefarious plan, but rather just didn't give a rat's ass where the victims that weren't murdered ended up after their country was stolen. Maybe the supposed "controllers" are just apex capitalists, and really are just a cluster of greedy bastards that want all the resources and the regional military control to keep control of the stolen resources. They certainly do control wealth and power. We do have some strong indications that these global owners/controllers want to keep us infighting and to stay fractured, and to never unite to defeat them. For this, note that they promote a race war or a religious war - because neither one touches them and keeps us divided. The war they don't want is the CLASS war, the one where all the stupid slobs somehow unite and easily take the power away from the controllers. The fact that you are sucked-in to the agenda of the controllers should tell you something.

    For all your intelligence and capability your intelligence will do you no good if you do not recognize the intent of the elite.
    This one paragraph lends me to believe you have your head in the sand and it pretty much nullifies all of your good points.
    You seem to be apologizing for all the rape and murder the muslims have done in Europe and attribute it to a lack of assimilation.
    The globalists want a ONE WORLD ORDER and in order to get it they have to DESTROY THE MIDDLE CLASS.
    Destroying America and the European countries that have a decent standard of living is what they are doing now and it is pretty transparent.
    For you to not see this means for all your capability you are blind for the most part.
    Do you really think the elite give a rat's ass for the muslim refugees and their well being?
    Why would the elite have the main stream media feigning such sympathy if not for an agenda?
    You are correct in stating that 9/11 was completely staged and done by US insiders not a muslim contingency such as Al Queda, but the same cabal who orchestrated 9/11 never left power and it is quite evident in the actions of Obama. It was obvious in Hillary's stated agenda and it is obvious now that they have steered Trump into accomplishing their goals as well.
    So why would these 9/11 conspirators want muslims in the western countries? This is all orchestration and I plead with you to exercise detachment and not succumb to the ploys for pity as communicated by the main stream media which we know is controlled 100% by the CIA who in turn are controlled 100% by the banking elite.
    Why are all the main stream media channels broadcasting the same message? This should be a major red flag for you.
    Last edited by DNA; 1st May 2017 at 03:51.

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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    I also had a strange experience in my own country, by becoming the tiny minority all of a sudden.

    2 years ago, I decided I needed to get in shape as well as meet people. So i searched on the web for walking groups not too far from my home, The only one I found which had convenient walking hours for me was 1/2 hour drive from my home. So I started to go twice a week.

    It was a real great group, people from all over the planet (a majority Muslim arabs, some Israelis, Italians, etc) we ended up being about 30 people, and we would make sure to gain the calories back after the walk, by all going for coffee, munchin or sometimes meal afterward.

    One evening, we were 32 persons sitting in an italian restaurant ordering food. And I pass the following comment: This is stange I said, but we are only four Canadians with ancestors from here. Then one of the French Canadian girl ask me " ah yes, who are they". I answered well, you - she said no, I am Portuguese, then I said to another woman, well you, she said "no I am Serbian", I told a third woman, well you and she said "no, I am Arab", believe it or not, from the 32 there, I was the only born Canadian there, and definitely the only French Canadian.

    I was in shock - the western part of my city is deemed English speaking, but it is everything except English (and nor French, two of the original invader populations).

    The nice thing is that we were all getting along, the not as nice thing is that there were at times tensions because of cultural backlash (some not very integrated immigrants, but how could they, when there is no original settlers left). There were no common culture to attach too, or to create a common understanding of what is and what is not a culturally commonly agreed behavior or thinking.

    One of the backlash was a woman being beaten up by her husband and not wanting to do anything about it because in her culture she had to accept it. Nobody wanted to say anything except a few occidental women.

    --------------------------------

    As for racism, I did live reverse racism in Mexico, quite constant - I was the dam gringa whom men chase but do not respect. This is where I learned to develop acute self protecting behaviors with a witty borderline nasty mouth. Always conscious at all time that I was white, blonde and a foreigner even though I spoke fluent spanish. (i have lost some of the language abilities with time, for lack of practice - but haven't lost the witty borderline nasty mouth when needed).

    ---------------------------------

    Makes me remember when my ex-husband and I were looking for a house. We went to a neigborhood in Montreal where there was nice housing, condos, etc. We visited a few, then went for lunch at a nearby shopping center.

    We bought something and sat there, observing the crowd. It was anything but white French or Anglo Saxon. My husband told me "this is human zoo", and then he added up "We are not moving in this neighborhood" to which I asked "why" and he answered "I came to Canada to live with Canadians a Canadian life, not to be living in a human zoo, I do not feel well in this kind of place".

    You see, my husband was an immigrant himself, telling that he could not related and identify with the place he lived in if there was not enough homogeneity.

    It was about culture too, but seen from an immigrant point of view.
    Last edited by Flash; 1st May 2017 at 04:19.
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    Default Re: Trump - "Illegal" immigration - Sam's view

    sounds like alot of people supported a system they either believed in or were afraid of, and now that system is not protecting or supporting what those people thought they had bought??? i.e. taxes...?

    Would love to see some of ya'll on the street or in the bar useing this rhetoric....would be funny but our convo would be great...

    i love blueberries...
    Last edited by thunder24; 1st May 2017 at 04:20.
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