Does the Catholic Church get a bum rap

[silentghost80]

Posted by aroundthetable (here)
Most victims of pedophiles are from within families, perhaps we should destroy families too, no even better, lets destroy everything that isn't perfect!

pedophiles that rape family members already destroyed their own family.
too bad if the victim is embarrassed they need to know they can not ever let it happen to them again. instead of teaching them that nothing will be done

[aroundthetable]

Here is a lecture titled, controlling your reactions, i hope some may find it helpful.

http://www.utahkrishnas.org/index.ph...and&Itemid=386

Sorry op, i most certainly didn't want to divert this thread towards the Hare Krishna movement!!! Still, evil everywhere needs to be dealt with, even when its on your doorstep.

Simply wishing to serve the Lords feet,

Positive thoughts to you all.

[silentghost80]

Posted by aroundthetable (here)
Here is a lecture titled, controlling your reactions, i hope some may find it helpful.

http://www.utahkrishnas.org/index.ph...and&Itemid=386

that is a waste of time "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

[Icecold]

Maybe some time in the future when you are older perhaps you will understand that you are mind controlled from within your organisation. It will be a bitter lesson.

You are not free. Institutionalised religion is a mind trap. You can't carry that baggage and expect to be awakened. You can't see that yet.

[aroundthetable]

Posted by Icecold (here)
Maybe some time in the future when you are older perhaps you will understand that you are mind controlled from within your organisation. It will be a bitter lesson.

You are not free. Institutionalised religion is a mind trap. You can't carry that baggage and expect to be awakened. You can't see that yet.

Please try to resist the urge to personally attack me and my lifestyle. I am simply trying to engage with this thread because i felt it worthy of a response. Of course it is a sensitive issue, and i fully expected such reactions from some. Quick judgements about my ability to choose a lifestyle i like is not helpful. Harsh judgements are also baggage that prevents enlightenment.

Peace to you,
I mean that.

[Icecold]

Dont patronise me. You should follow your own advise....

Sorry op, i most certainly didn't want to divert this thread towards the Hare Krishna movement!!! Still, evil everywhere needs to be dealt with, even when its on your doorstep.

As an observation, and someone with experience of 30 years and more, I would have never have believed that a true devotee, could have put up such a weak argument. I don't know what temple you attend, but they are neglecting your education.

[aroundthetable]

Posted by Icecold (here)
Dont patronise me. You should follow your own advise....



As an observation, and someone with experience of 30 years and more, I would have never have believed that a true devotee, could have put up such a weak argument. I don't know what temple you attend, but they are neglecting your education.

Your right, i am not a true devotee, i am very unintelligent. One day i pray, to be wiser.

and thankyou for your learned method of teaching me better. That 30 years is certainly not wasted.

[Icecold]

Posted by aroundthetable (here)
Your right, i am not a true devotee, i am very unintelligent. One day i pray, to be wiser.

and thankyou for your learned method of teaching me better. That 30 years is certainly not wasted.

Then i wish you well and hope that you find what you desire most as a spiritual being.

[aroundthetable]

Posted by Icecold (here)
Then i wish you well and hope that you find what you desire most as a spiritual being.

I wish you well too, Haribol.

[truthseekerdan]

Unconditional Love does not attack others. Fear of losing something does... It's time to realize that and come together in order to change this paradigm.

Namaste ~ Dan

[aroundthetable]

Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
Unconditional Love does not attack others. Fear of losing something does... It's time to realize that and come together in order to change this paradigm.

Namaste ~ Dan

Dan!!!! BIG hugs to you dear soul xxx

[RedeZra]

Posted by Teakai (here)
I don’t know, Redezra, I think you give me too much credit in regard to the attention and interest I have for the roman catholic church.

Are you not really saying Teakai that you parrot propaganda you have picked up against the Catholic Church without knowing if they are true or not ?

If you're going to blame someone you should at least know something about them and cross-check the background behind popular propaganda

I know you know that information today is heavily infiltrated with deceit and outright lies so don't be too lazy to investigate information for yourselves


Before the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and issued the Edict of Milan in 313 the Christians had been persecuted for 300 years !


Constantine was the son of Helena and the co-emperor Constantius I but because the vast Roman Empire was ruled by a tetrarchy at that time Constantine was sidelined by schemes and personal ambitions of powerful players after his father's death. Constantine had to fight for the right to rule and so the Empire witnessed the civil wars of the Tetrarchy between 306 and 324 AD

Before Constantine's final battle against Maxentius much bigger army Constantine and his men supposedly saw the sign of the 'Chi-Rho' - a symbol representing the first two letters of the word Christos - in heaven with a message "In this sign, you will conquer" - so Constantine had his soldiers mark the symbol on their shields. Later this Chi-Rho symbol was incorporated in Constantine's labarum or millitary standard

Constantine sought first and foremost social stability in the vast empire which was Rome and instructed that Christians and non-Christians alike should be united and observe the 'venerable day of the sun' or Sol Invictus which was a winter solstice festival celebrating the sun turning northward bringing brighter days again - it is possible that's why we celebrate Christmas to this day

Constantine saw it as his duty to ensure that God was properly worshipped in his empire and what proper worship consisted of was for the Church to determine so he summoned the bishops to come to Nicea in 325 to solidify and unite under one universal Christian teaching

Oh and Constantine made new laws regarding the Jews. They were forbidden to own Christian slaves or to circumcise their slaves

[RedeZra]

Posted by Icecold (here)
In 415 A.D. Under the command of bishop Cyril, the Alexandrian Library and university and the Serapis Temple were destroyed by the Christian mob under the orders of their bishop, and the professors and governors were killed, Hypatia, head of the philosophy school in Alexandria, was dragged out of her chariot and then skinned alive by the Christian mobs using oyster shells, killed and then burned. Orestes, the governor of Alexandria, according to the contemporary accounts, objected to Cyril (the future saint) expelling the Jews from the city, and was murdered by Christian monks for his opposition. Orders were then given to exile the Jews of Alexandria after the slaughter of few thousands Alexandrians. then they moved onto every other Egyptian city doing the same thing, killing every Egyptian priest or priestess, burning of libraries and the destruction and burning of temples and schools, no one can stop them nor escape from this new evil, They destroyed the Gnostic and Hermetic Schools through out the country. With these dark bloody events thus begun the dark ages of Europe.

Are you aware that you quote information from just one pro pagan and anti Christian website called the perankhgroup ?

Posted by arrowwind
Probably about the same as for all aggressive empires, both east and west. I don't know why you keep trying to turn this thread off topic.

I'm not turning this Catholic bashing thread off topic just because I don't bash in

I'm not even Catholic... but I can't stand uninformed and prejudiced attack on anyone - not even the Catholic Church - just because agents of the elusive illuminati has successfully infiltrated insulted and subverted the Vatican and many of it's churches


Attacking the Catholic Church is like attacking a subverted enemy of those who want to enslave you

Why don't you grow some guts and tackle and topple the real problem - the Jewish-Masonic power behind our governments ?

[araucaria]

Posted by araucaria (here)

If by the Church we mean the people, I know of many wonderful folks who are Catholics, and being Catholics definitely has something to do with their being wonderful. Go figure. C G Jung has some answers I know. Basically I think it comes down to basic goodness; seeing no evil tends to create goodness everywhere. This can be confused with naivety, but I prefer the notion of ‘positive disingenuousness’ (don’t go googling it, I’ve just made it up ). I think this is what has happened to Charles on this forum, he has had to go with the flow.

Just to add something to my earlier post, and tie in with something I wrote on the The Key thread, this is to do with Catholic veneration of the divine feminine, which is one of the major factors in the persecutions in the later 15 th and early 16th centuries

[Teakai]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
Are you not really saying Teakai that you parrot propaganda you have picked up against the Catholic Church without knowing if they are true or not ?

If you're going to blame someone you should at least know something about them and cross-check the background behind popular propaganda

I know you know that information today is heavily infiltrated with deceit and outright lies so don't be too lazy to investigate information for yourselves


Before the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and issued the Edict of Milan in 313 the Christians had been persecuted for 300 years !


Constantine was the son of Helena and the co-emperor Constantius I but because the vast Roman Empire was ruled by a tetrarchy at that time Constantine was sidelined by schemes and personal ambitions of powerful players after his father's death. Constantine had to fight for the right to rule and so the Empire witnessed the civil wars of the Tetrarchy between 306 and 324 AD

Before Constantine's final battle against Maxentius much bigger army Constantine and his men supposedly saw the sign of the 'Chi-Rho' - a symbol representing the first two letters of the word Christos - in heaven with a message "In this sign, you will conquer" - so Constantine had his soldiers mark the symbol on their shields. Later this Chi-Rho symbol was incorporated in Constantine's labarum or millitary standard

Constantine sought first and foremost social stability in the vast empire which was Rome and instructed that Christians and non-Christians alike should be united and observe the 'venerable day of the sun' or Sol Invictus which was a winter solstice festival celebrating the sun turning northward bringing brighter days again - it is possible that's why we celebrate Christmas to this day

Constantine saw it as his duty to ensure that God was properly worshipped in his empire and what proper worship consisted of was for the Church to determine so he summoned the bishops to come to Nicea in 325 to solidify and unite under one universal Christian teaching

Oh and Constantine made new laws regarding the Jews. They were forbidden to own Christian slaves or to circumcise their slaves

It’s really difficult to avoid parroting the truth, Redezra.

Did the inquisiton not happen under the banner of the r/c church?
Were the r/c church not responsible for the witch trials?
Did the roman catholic church not rid women from being able to spread Jesus’ message?
Did the r/c church not slaughter pagans and Cathars and an exhaustive amount of people in their quest to be the ruling religion?
Did the r/c church not stop scientific progression in it's tracks and spiral Euprope into what is known as the 'dark ages' for several hundred years?
Is the r/c church sitting on a forune while people are starving?
Does child molestation not run rampant within the catholic church?

I am not interested in why they did/do these things – only that they did/do them. I’m sure, like Constantine slaughtering his own family members – they felt they were justified.

From the sources I’ve read there is no evidence that Constantine ever converted to Christianity. Did you read that – or are you just looking at the pro-Christian propaganda?

And I can see how Christianity would be a big draw for the slave section of the population. However, this wasn’t done out of humanity for the slaves – it was about persecuting the Jews.
Christians could still own Jewish slaves.

[Teakai]

Posted by aroundthetable (here)
Please try to resist the urge to personally attack me and my lifestyle. I am simply trying to engage with this thread because i felt it worthy of a response. Of course it is a sensitive issue, and i fully expected such reactions from some. Quick judgements about my ability to choose a lifestyle i like is not helpful. Harsh judgements are also baggage that prevents enlightenment.

Peace to you,
I mean that.

I don't think it was meant as a harsh judgment, aroundthetable, it was just a statement of fact. Religion is a baggage - and unecessary baggage.
If a person requires religion to tell them what is right and what is not, what they should do and what they shouldn't -then they are not yet spiritually aware - for the spiritually aware already know their truth.

It's also not a sensitive issue. Anyone who gets offended by discussing this topic is acting from ego - getting defensive about what they see as being attacked. How can discussing religion be a personal attack or judgment - people are not their religion.
People are people - some people are deluded people

[9eagle9]

I look at what people say in context to what they are asking an find the answer in the question. Yes, the Catholic church gets a bum rap most noticeably for the bum rapping (should I say raping) that has occurred there. Among other things.

Celine posted photos of innocents. (Innocence) Presumably of those whose innocence was lost to the Church? Those children represent all of us collectively that had our innocence our inner child, our connection with God(SELF) wounded by institutions like the church. Their congregations are as much a victim as we are. Or once were.

Jesus spoke of the suffering that would incur when the innocents (innocence) were degraded and abused. Didn't he?

If the Church believes anything it says it believes why should any of them be shocked the organization is suffering for its theft and degradation of innocents (Innocence).

They brought it on themselves. The Church authorities are constantly extolling the consequences of Sin. So they are suffering the consequences of their own sins. Shocking? No. You reap what you sow.

[Teakai]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
Are you aware that you quote information from just one pro pagan and anti Christian website called the perankhgroup ?




I'm not turning this Catholic bashing thread off topic just because I don't bash in

I'm not even Catholic... but I can't stand uninformed and prejudiced attack on anyone - not even the Catholic Church - just because agents of the elusive illuminati has successfully infiltrated insulted and subverted the Vatican and many of it's churches


Attacking the Catholic Church is like attacking a subverted enemy of those who want to enslave you

Why don't you grow some guts and tackle and topple the real problem - the Jewish-Masonic power behind our governments ?

Redezra, just to be clear, I'm not talking about people I'm talking about the institution. I realise there are lovely kind people who have done much for humanity and been roman catholics - Mother Theresa is one who stands out, I also realise that there are not so nice people within it's ranks - some of these people even get to make major decisions.

The thing is - if you buy into religion of any kind - you are susceptible to the plan of the nwo. The same thing that is happening now to Christianity happened to the Jews when the age of Pisces came in. It is unavoidable - the only way to not be affected by it, is to find your own spiritual truth.

By protecting these institutions you are unknowingly continuing to buy into the system.

[RedeZra]

Posted by Teakai (here)
From the sources I’ve read there is no evidence that Constantine ever converted to Christianity. Did you read that – or are you just looking at the pro-Christian propaganda?

Well is wikipedia pro-Christian ?

the great thing about wikipedia is the nice nuanced way with which it presents it's topics and cites it's sources - so we can cross-check the information for ourselves and not depend on simple slogans or popular propaganda taken all out of context and read somewhere on the net


Tnx Teakai for the discussion ; )

[Icecold]

By Socrates Scholasticus, from his Ecclesiastical History


THERE WAS a woman at Alexandria named Hypatia, daughter of the philosopher Theon, who made such attainments in literature and science, as to far surpass all the philosophers of her own time. Having succeeded to the school of Plato and Plotinus, she explained the principles of philosophy to her auditors, many of whom came from a distance to receive her instructions. On account of the self-possession and ease of manner, which she had acquired in consequence of the cultivation of her mind, she not unfrequently appeared in public in presence of the magistrates. Neither did she feel abashed in going to an assembly of men. For all men on account of her extraordinary dignity and virtue admired her the more. Yet even she fell victim to the political jealousy which at that time prevailed. For as she had frequent interviews with Orestes, it was calumniously reported among the Christian populace, that it was she who prevented Orestes from being reconciled to the bishop. Some of them, therefore, hurried away by a fierce and bigoted zeal, whose ringleader was a reader named Peter, waylaid her returning home, and dragging her from her carriage, they took her to the church called Caesareum, where they completely stripped her, and then murdered her with tiles.* After tearing her body in pieces, they took her mangled limbs to a place called Cinaron, and there burnt them. This affair brought not the least opprobrium, not only upon Cyril, but also upon the whole Alexandrian church. And surely nothing can be farther from the spirit of Christianity than the allowance of massacres, fights, and transactions of that sort. This happened in the month of March during Lent, in the fourth year of Cyril's episcopate, under the tenth consulate of Honorius, and the sixth of Theodosius.


Mathematician, Astronomer, and Philosopher (d. 415 C.E.)

Hypatia was a mathematician, astronomer, and Platonic philosopher. According to the Byzantine encyclopedia The Suda, her father Theon was the last head of the Museum at Alexandria.

Hypatia's prominence was accentuated by the fact that she was both female and pagan in an increasingly Christian environment. Shortly before her death, Cyril was made the Christian bishop of Alexandria, and a conflict arose between Cyril and the prefect Orestes. Orestes was disliked by some Christians and was a friend of Hypatia, and rumors started that Hypatia was to blame for the conflict. In the spring of 415 C.E., the situation reached a tragic conclusion when a band of Christian monks seized Hypatia on the street, beat her, and dragged her body to a church where they mutilated her flesh with sharp tiles and burned her remains.

From Damascius's Life of Isidore, reproduced in The Suda

Translated by Jeremiah Reedy


HYPATIA, daughter of Theon the geometer and philosopher of Alexandria, was herself a well-known philosopher. She was the wife of the philosopher Isidorus, and she flourished under the Emperor Arcadius. Author of a commentary on Diophantus, she also wrote a work called The Astronomical Canon and a commentary on The Conics of Apollonius. She was torn apart by the Alexandrians and her body was mocked and scattered through the whole city. This happened because of envy and her outstanding wisdom especially regarding astronomy. Some say Cyril was responsible for this outrage; others blame the Alexandrians' innate ferocity and violent tendencies for they dealt with many of their bishops in the same manner, for example George and Proterius.

Regarding Hypatia the Philosopher and the Sedition of the Alexandrians

Hypatia was born, reared, and educated in Alexandria. Since she had greater genius than her father, she was not satisfied with his instruction in mathematical subjects; she also devoted herself diligently to all of philosophy.

The woman used to put on her philosopher's cloak and walk through the middle of town and publicly interpret Plato, Aristotle, or the works of any other philosopher to those who wished to hear her. In addition to her expertise in teaching she rose to the pinnacle of civic virtue. She was both just and chaste and remained always a virgin. She was so beautiful and shapely that one of her students fell in love with her and was unable to control himself and openly showed her a sign of his infatuation. Uninformed reports had Hypatia curing him of his affliction with the help of music. The truth is that the story about music is corrupt. Actually, she gathered rags that had been stained during her period and showed them to him as a sign of her unclean descent and said, "This is what you love, young man, and it isn't beautiful!" He was so affected by shame and amazement at the ugly sight that he experienced a change of heart and went away a better man.

Such was Hypatia, as articulate and eloquent in speaking as she was prudent and civil in her deeds. The whole city rightly loved her and worshipped her in a remarkable way, but the rulers of the city from the first envied her, something that often happened at Athens too. For even if philosophy itself had perished, nevertheless, its name still seems magnificent and venerable to the men who exercise leadership in the state. Thus it happened one day that Cyril, bishop of the opposition sect [i.e. Christianity] was passing by Hypatia's house, and he saw a great crowd of people and horses in front of her door. Some were arriving, some departing, and others standing around. When he asked why there was a crowd there and what all the fuss was about, he was told by her followers that it was the house of Hypatia the philosopher and she was about to greet them. When Cyril learned this he was so struck with envy that he immediately began plotting her murder and the most heinous form of murder at that. For when Hypatia emerged from her house, in her accustomed manner, a throng of merciless and ferocious men who feared neither divine punishment nor human revenge attacked and cut her down, thus committing an outrageous and disgraceful deed against their fatherland. The Emperor was angry, and he would have avenged her had not Aedesius been bribed. Thus the Emperor remitted the punishment onto his own head and family for his descendant paid the price. The memory of these events is still vivid among the Alexandrians.


Now here is a christian view......notice the difference in intepretation to the three earlier accounts....

By John, Bishop of Nikiu, from his Chronicle 84.87-103

Reprinted with permission from Alexandria 2
AND IN THOSE DAYS there appeared in Alexandria a female philosopher, a pagan named Hypatia, and she was devoted at all times to magic, astrolabes and instruments of music, and she beguiled many people through (her) Satanic wiles. And the governor of the city honored her exceedingly; for she had beguiled him through her magic. And he ceased attending church as had been his custom. But he went once under circumstances of danger. And he not only did this, but he drew many believers to her, and he himself received the unbelievers at his house. And on a certain day when they were making merry over a theatrical exhibition connected with dancers, the governor of the city published (an edict) regarding the public exhibitions in the city of Alexandria: and all the inhabitants of the city had assembled there (in the theater). Now Cyril, who had been appointed patriarch after Theophilus, was eager to gain exact intelligence regarding this edict. And there was a man named Hierax, a Christian possessing understanding and intelligence who used to mock the pagans but was a devoted adherent of the illustrious Father the patriarch and was obedient to his monitions. He was also well versed in the Christian faith. (Now this man attended the theater to learn the nature of this edict.) But when the Jews saw him in the theater they cried out and said: "This man has not come with any good purpose, but only to provoke an uproar." And Orestes the prefect was displeased with the children of the holy church, and Hierax was seized and subjected to punishment publicly in the theater, although he was wholly guiltless. And Cyril was wroth with the governor of the city for so doing, and likewise for his putting to death an illustrious monk of the convent of Pernodj [1] named Ammonius, and other monks (also). And when the chief magistrate [2] of the city heard this, he sent word to the Jews as follows: "Cease your hostilities against the Christians." But they refused to hearken to what they heard; for they gloried in the support of the prefect who was with them, and so they added outrage to outrage and plotted a massacre through a treacherous device. And they posted beside them at night in all the streets of the city certain men, while others cried out and said: "The church of the apostolic Athanasius is on fire: come to its succour, all ye Christians." And the Christians on hearing their cry came fourth quite ignorant of the treachery of the Jews. And when the Christians came forth, the Jews arose and wickedly massacred the Christians and shed the blood of many, guiltless though they were. And in the morning, when the surviving Christians heard of the wicked deed which the Jews had wrought, they betook themselves to the patriarch. And the Christians mustered all together and went and marched in wrath to the synagogues of the Jews and took possession of them, and purified them and converted them into churches. And one of them they named after the name of St. George. And as for the Jewish assassins they expelled them from the city, and pillaged all their possessions and drove them forth wholly despoiled, and Orestes the prefect was unable to render them any help. And thereafter a multitude of believers in God arose under the guidance of Peter the magistrate -- now this Peter was a perfect believer in all respects in Jesus Christ -- and they proceeded to seek for the pagan woman who had beguiled the people of the city and the prefect through her enchantments. And when they learnt the place where she was, they proceeded to her and found her seated on a (lofty) chair; and having made her descend they dragged her along till they brought her to the great church, named Caesarion. Now this was in the days of the fast. And they tore off her clothing and dragged her [till they brought her] through the streets of the city till she died. And they carried her to a place named Cinaron, and they burned her body with fire. And all the people surrounded the patriarch Cyril and named him "the new Theophilus"; for he had destroyed the last remains of idolatry in the city.


http://www.google.com.au/#q=How+the+...85abfb9ab19e5f