When does abduction turn voluntary?

[mojo]

This question is one that deserves some attention because even our own Bill has been taken high in mountains out of tent one night and so many other members talk about their own abduction. Yet we can reference John Mack and others to determine some abductions can be considered positive. That was a tough one to understand, and other members have stated abduction cant be positive when being taken against your will. But they can be and Betty Hill is an excellent example. Some would argue Stockholm syndrome but personally dont believe that in contact because they let the individual go after and the person still has positive feelings.

[WhiteLove]

Posted by mojo (here)
This question is one that deserves some attention because even our own Bill has been taken high in mountains out of tent one night and so many other members talk about their own abduction. Yet we can reference John Mack and others to determine some abductions can be considered positive. That was a tough one to understand, and other members have stated abduction cant be positive when being taken against your will. But they can be and Betty Hill is an excellent example. Some would argue Stockholm syndrome but personally dont believe that in contact because they let the individual go after and the person still has positive feelings.

If I remember correctly among all of the abduction cases Dr. David Jacobs has studied he considers not a single abduction to be positive, there is just nothing there that supports that being the case. But that is his set of abductions he has looked into, but it becomes compelling because of how many cases he has studied. Also, it is interesting that abductees are selected based on biological traces, e.g., blood lines, family members etc., this also indicates the cause of the phenomenon might be more of biological rather than spiritual nature. So all in all the case for positive abductions becomes rather weak, although I am sure such cases exist as well. Therefore maybe the most logical conclusion about the phenomenon right now is that the bulk of the abductions is not positive, it appears to be some form of abuse, maybe driven by an incredibly strong self interest by these beings (assuming that they are self aware, they might also be partially self aware or similar depending on what they are and how they function, they could maybe be partially robotic so that certain aspects of their behavior are beyond their own awareness). I guess it becomes more positive when the abductee reports he/she has not felt abused in any way. But it is interesting that the abductions do not tend to be mostly positive, that tells us something... Adding to that we have things like cattle mutilations and lots of people gone missing in national parks, it does not make the picture more pretty. It would be interesting to know the statistics on negative vs. neutral...

[Cidersomerset]

Billy Meier and others went voluntarily so they claim , many others have terrifying
experiences I suppose it depends on the ET's and the black ops abductors and their
various agendas, from the many interviews I have seen over the years it is very
complex.....

[mojo]

this video helped to understand regression.. also a positive experience.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ohMkHzEwuwE

also the detail this abductee remembers from regression was amazing, yet still some experiences are not positive. John Mack had to divide the category into two types.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=pORT3Z0xHrs

[Bill Ryan]

It's a fascinating (and maybe very important) question.

My only offerings, opinions only:

Many abductions I think really are involuntary (i.e. non-consensual). One of David Jacobs' well-known presentations is called Abductees and their Involuntary Tasks.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=WzTxiFem-aI

But some, I do think, are by long term genuine agreement. It's almost bound to be a mixed bag.

Posted by mojo (here)
This question is one that deserves some attention because even our own Bill has been taken high in mountains out of tent one night and so many other members talk about their own abduction.

I'd assumed and believed for many years that this was against my will. Much later, I discovered that it actually wasn't... it was part of a far bigger picture which I'd totally signed up to (and was for my benefit).

Part of the problem, in some cases, may be the little grey guys, so often reported by every kind of abductee. I feel very sure they're almost certainly bio-robots of some sort, and maybe ET races of all agendas have them and employ them. But simply that can certainly trigger reactions in some people... especially if one's had negative experiences with them before, even in another life or realm of existence.

[neutronstar]

I believe it is always voluntary. Maybe not to the ego, but to the higher self who volunteered to have the life. Everything that happens to us in our lives has a purpose, and we agreed to it coming in. Just because the ego labels something as bad doesn't mean from a higher perspective that it is. We play the part of bad guys sometimes and good guys other times. Karma must be balanced.

[Spiral]

Posted by mojo (here)
this video helped to understand regression.. also a positive experience.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ohMkHzEwuwE

!!!! Never seen a girl with such predatory eyes, really evil, & full of deception !

[wnlight]

Abduction is the action or an instance of forcibly taking someone away against their will. How can anyone get away with calling an abduction a positive experience? If I were to be yanked out of my home to have painful and scary medical experiments performed on me, there would be very little that I could describe as positive. This is a criminal act executed by an alien that cares very little for me. These abductions remind me of behavior of some naturalists that dart a wild animal, take body samples (for the good of the species) and measurements, clip the ears, tag and apply radio collars.
Are we to be treated like a wild Earth species managed for our own good? I prefer to opt out, thank you.

Perhaps a positive abduction experience would be for some of us to turn the table on the aliens.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by wnlight (here)
These abductions remind me of behavior of some naturalists that dart a wild animal, take body samples (for the good of the species) and measurements, clip the ears, tag and apply radio collars.
Are we to be treated like a wild Earth species managed for our own good? I prefer to opt out, thank you.

That may be a good analogy: it really does seem that at least some ETs regard us in some way as their 'property'.

Some gamekeepers and research scientists regularly do stuff to animals that must seem terrifying to them. They come to no harm, but the animals are not 'volunteering'. And yet it really is for their benefit, as a species.

And when I take my dog to the vet for some treatment that she needs, that's for her own direct benefit. But she's certainly not coming willingly. It's merely impossible to explain.

And then, one sees trucks taking sheep, pigs or cattle to the slaughterhouse. The animals have no idea what's ahead of them in the coming hours. That's not for their benefit... at all.

[bogeyman]

Always in terms of human concepts and understanding based upon ones personal experience, ideology, emotional feelings at the time, or limited educational insight. Ever thought of the non physical or spiritual aspects of your existence and knowing that all is one, hence it would be a collective encounter a oneness pertaining to contact or abduction has some people would see it. Hence voluntary wouldn't even come into it that is a conscious thought process, not a non physical response, a separation so to speak.

[EFO]

Posted by mojo (here)
This question is one that deserves some attention because even our own Bill has been taken high in mountains out of tent one night and so many other members talk about their own abduction. Yet we can reference John Mack and others to determine some abductions can be considered positive. That was a tough one to understand, and other members have stated abduction cant be positive when being taken against your will. But they can be and Betty Hill is an excellent example. Some would argue Stockholm syndrome but personally dont believe that in contact because they let the individual go after and the person still has positive feelings.

Dear mojo,

When I was at the age of 7 or 8 I dreamed that I was falling through a pitch black void space.First time I was afraid,not scared,but only afraid.Second one,first I was afraid again,but I remembered that I was falling last time and nothing bad happened and suddenly the afraid was gone like it wasn't there.Third time I was interested about the falling.Much later I found that this process could be a form of pulling - I avoid term of "abduction" as much as possible,it's insulting for me.

Last year my wife was pulled two times through a bright white tunnel.First time nothing happened,but second time she said that she have the most beautiful experience at the end of the tunnel in her life till now.I was amazed and shocked about her story and what she saw there.

Coming back to me and speaking for myself only,conscious I don't remember having any bad feeling about what was happened to me up to this age.Their purpose about human condition is beyond our imagination and the simple thing human most do is simply put together the pieces of puzzle and learn.Nothing more,nothing less.

A year ago I wanted hard to do a regression,but I learned that for me is much better to be patience,wait and learn,but also is important for others to find what my informations are.Perhaps in time I would be able to share my informations without a regression.

Until than I can only describe what was/is conscious happened and I can only say that if I was pulled it wasn't bad at all.

[mojo]

Hi EFO,
You brought up two good points that were mentioned in Betty Hills last interview. One, people should not do hypnosis regression because the memories will come back over time without help and she also mentioned that she doesn't consider herself an abductee but a passenger. Instead of calling them aliens or Ets she called them astronauts.. Thought those comments were opposite to what we heard of Betty.

[AutumnW]

My intuition is that it is never voluntary and that any feeling the person has about it being the result of a long term agreement of some sort is due to the power of suggestion. The ET's themselves are completely on control, not only of the experience itself but of the conclusions drawn from it.

[Foxie Loxie]

@Bill.....Just wondering at what point in your Journey did you realize that your abduction was something you had agreed to at a prior time?

[william r sanford72]

David Jacobs saying all hybrids and abductions are bad reminds of the witch trials....if my children or anyone I new were hybrids or evolved humans I would tell em keep hiding were not ready yet..let alone what the ptb etc would do to em.Has done.
abductions for me have been a mixed bag mainly due to the reactions of the people around me and my family.The trauma sufferd was due to reality smashing views and programing of a lifetime being shatterd in an instant.
The core of who I am was is the same...I have been this way my whole life as far as the environment and helping others.nothing of a alien/et programed this or requested or tasked this to me.as a matter of fact the ufos and contact only confirmed much for me.Gave me courage to bee who iam.
So despite the negative...I have grown.and regret and fear nothing from them.

William.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
@Bill.....Just wondering at what point in your Journey did you realize that your abduction was something you had agreed to at a prior time?

Thanks for the question. It may have been in 2012, I think, but I know it was before mid-2013. It took many years for me to understand it, as it was so complex and multi-layered.

[Spiral]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Part of the problem, in some cases, may be the little grey guys, so often reported by every kind of abductee. I feel very sure they're almost certainly bio-robots of some sort, and maybe ET races of all agendas have them and employ them. But simply that can certainly trigger reactions in some people... especially if one's had negative experiences with them before, even in another life or realm of existence.

Once upon a time I used to take my dog out last thing at night in winter for a toilet break (otherwise it's a long time between walks), and one night we set off up the road at just after midnight with my rechargeable hi power torch that only lasts about 6 mins.

We approached the telegraph pole where we turned around (only a few hundred yards away from the house) and the next instant the gravel of the driveway was crunching beneath my feet & we were back at the house, torch still on full beam (unusually, it would normally be going dim at this point).

I entered the house to find my wife in bed fast asleep & it was 1:35 am.....

That's about an hour & a half of missing time, & ever since that day my dog who is scared of very little (not even fireworks or thunder) started being petrified of children of a certain hieght in cycle helmets....

[Foxie Loxie]

@wm-72 "...reality smashing views & programming of a lifetime being shattered in an instant." I have never had an abduction, but the same thing happened to me after I joined Avalon!!! I DO think you put it very well!

[AutumnW]

Posted by Spiral (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Part of the problem, in some cases, may be the little grey guys, so often reported by every kind of abductee. I feel very sure they're almost certainly bio-robots of some sort, and maybe ET races of all agendas have them and employ them. But simply that can certainly trigger reactions in some people... especially if one's had negative experiences with them before, even in another life or realm of existence.

Once upon a time I used to take my dog out last thing at night in winter for a toilet break (otherwise it's a long time between walks), and one night we set off up the road at just after midnight with my rechargeable hi power torch that only lasts about 6 mins.

We approached the telegraph pole where we turned around (only a few hundred yards away from the house) and the next instant the gravel of the driveway was crunching beneath my feet & we were back at the house, torch still on full beam (unusually, it would normally be going dim at this point).

I entered the house to find my wife in bed fast asleep & it was 1:35 am.....

That's about an hour & a half of missing time, & ever since that day my dog who is scared of very little (not even fireworks or thunder) started being petrified of children of a certain hieght in cycle helmets....

Now you're scaring me! Must be why I nudge my dog out the door and have her do her business all by herself at night! I have to admit, I have never had any extreme experiences like yours though...that I remember!

[Spiral]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Spiral (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Part of the problem, in some cases, may be the little grey guys, so often reported by every kind of abductee. I feel very sure they're almost certainly bio-robots of some sort, and maybe ET races of all agendas have them and employ them. But simply that can certainly trigger reactions in some people... especially if one's had negative experiences with them before, even in another life or realm of existence.

Once upon a time I used to take my dog out last thing at night in winter for a toilet break (otherwise it's a long time between walks), and one night we set off up the road at just after midnight with my rechargeable hi power torch that only lasts about 6 mins.

We approached the telegraph pole where we turned around (only a few hundred yards away from the house) and the next instant the gravel of the driveway was crunching beneath my feet & we were back at the house, torch still on full beam (unusually, it would normally be going dim at this point).

I entered the house to find my wife in bed fast asleep & it was 1:35 am.....

That's about an hour & a half of missing time, & ever since that day my dog who is scared of very little (not even fireworks or thunder) started being petrified of children of a certain hieght in cycle helmets....

Now you're scaring me! Must be why I nudge my dog out the door and have her do her business all by herself at night! I have to admit, I have never had any extreme experiences like yours though...that I remember!

The thing is no matter what I do I have no memory of what happened in that lost time, but the torch & the dog prove to me something happened !