The UK Brexit vote to leave the EU

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Article 50 petition to cancel Brexit passes 6m signatures
The Guardian Guardian staff,The Guardian


The petition asking the British government to revoke article 50 and reconsider its plan to exit the European Union passed 6m signatures a day and a half after Britain was meant to have left the European Union.

The number of signatories passed the 5m mark the previous Sunday, making it the most popular petition to have been submitted to the parliament website. The previous highest total of 4,150,260 was for a 2016 petition calling for a second referendum should the initial poll not provide a definitive enough result.

The woman behind the petition, Margaret Georgiadou, said she had received death threats. She also said she had deleted her Facebook account after receiving a “torrent of abuse”.

Parliament will debate the petition on Monday. The government responded on 26 March that it would not revoke article 50, saying: “We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.”

Since then, Theresa May’s Brexit deal has been rejected by MPs for the third time, this time by 58 votes; the DUP’s deputy leader, Nigel Dodds, said he would rather the UK stayed in the EU than back her withdrawal agreement.

May is set to return to Brussels for an emergency European council summit on 10 April. The EU27 expect her to ask for a longer delay or accept a no-deal Brexit two days later, on 12 April.

There have been conspiracy theories about the petition on both sides of the debate. Some said crashes on the site since the petition launched were a plot to prevent further signatures.

Others claimed that a small proportion of signatures from overseas IP addresses – including one from North Korea – meant the petition had been hijacked by bots. In fact, 96% of the signatures were from the UK.

Chris comment.
Its all manipulated through the media.
However its not easy to see which way the manipulates want it to go.
Who are the bad guys? --smiling.
Im sure most MPs are honourable and doing their best even if deluded.
The bottom line is that no matter the end result--some will benefit in UK and some will not.

Awaiting the next episode

Ch

[greybeard]

‘Many’ Labour MPs want to back plan to cancel Brexit in wake of latest defeat for Theresa May
Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK

As Parliament gets ready for another tumultuous week, “many” Labour MPs are reportedly now ready to give their backing to cancelling Brexit altogether.

According to Joanna Cherry QC, the SNP MP behind a revised plan to revoke Article 50 if a no-deal scenario seems inevitable, the MPs who want to back it have already approached her.

She said she has been working closely with some Labour politicians to find a more “palatable” way of wording the proposal.
Labour MPs are ready to back a plan to revoke Article 50, according to the SNP
Labour’s deputy leader Tom Watson has already put his backing behind a second referendum (Getty)

Scottish Labour MP Paul Sweeney has already suggested that he and others are “sympathetic” to the idea, which he described as a “sensible safeguard”.

MPs are preparing to take control of the Commons timetable with a second series of “indicative” votes on Brexit, starting on Monday, in a bid to find a plan which can command a majority in the House.

Ms Cherry has confirmed that she has tabled a fresh version of her motion that calls for Article 50 – the mechanism for leaving the European Union – to be revoked in certain circumstances.



Under the reworked motion, if the UK gets to April 10, the date of a European Council summit, without a deal, an extension to Article 50 will be sought.

If that extension is not granted, the UK Government would then be mandated to put a vote on no deal before the Commons.

Ms Cherry told BBC Scotland: “We’re confident that that will be defeated, and the motion goes on to say that if the vote for no deal is defeated, the Government must revoke Article 50.”
Leave voters are showing no signs of giving up their fight for a full Brexit (Getty)
There are no signs yet that Labour will whip for revoking Article 50 (Getty)

The reworked version also provides for a public inquiry to be set up within three months of revocation to look at Britain’s future relationship with the EU and whether a majority can get behind it.

Ms Cherry said the proposal has been tabled for Monday, although it will be up to the Speaker to decide which motions are selected.

Speaking on the Sunday Politics Scotland programme, she said: “I’ve worked very closely with some Labour MPs who didn’t feel able to support the way it was worded last time to craft it into a form that’s more palatable for them.”
Theresa May saw another defeat for her Brexit deal on Friday (Getty)

The MP continued: “I don’t know if Labour are going to whip for it yet, but I have been proactively approached by many Labour MPs who didn’t vote for it last time who want to support it this time round.”

On Labour’s way forward, Mr Sweeney told the show: “It’s about building a coalition that is going to come together and actually establish a majority for a way forward in Parliament.

“We are clear that some of the compromise options around a customs union and Common Market 2.0, as it’s known, is a clear runner. But we also want to make sure that any deal is subject to a confirmatory public vote.”

On the question of whether a reasonably long extension to Article 50 is now “inevitable”, he said: “I think it is inevitable. The prospect of crashing out with no deal is just so unpalatable to anyone, even the Government, in my opinion, that they wouldn’t entertain it.”

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Brexit: May calls for cabinet showdown as MPs reject all options
The Guardian Heather Stewart, Jessica Elgot and Rowena Mason,The Guardian

Theresa May will summon her warring cabinet to Downing Street for a five-hour showdown on Tuesday after parliament once again failed to coalesce behind any alternative to her rejected Brexit deal.

Three options – a common market, a customs union and a second referendum – were all narrowly rejected in the process of indicative votes, prompting renewed talk of a swift general election.

After Conservative MPs failed to support any option in sufficient numbers, there were immediate recriminations in the House of Commons chamber.

The Tory MP Nick Boles declared that he had failed to persuade his colleagues to compromise with his “common market 2.0” plan and announced his departure from the party. Supporters of a second referendum from across parliament were also accused of increasing the risk of a no-deal by refusing to back soft Brexit options.

With just 10 days left until Britain is due to leave the EU without a deal unless the government secures a fresh delay from Brussels, the Brexit secretary, Steve Barclay, said the cabinet would have to decide the way forward.

“This house has continuously rejected leaving without a deal, just as it has rejected not leaving at all. Therefore the only option is to find a way through which allows the UK to leave with a deal,” he said.

One Downing Street adviser said that a snap election fronted by May was being “tested” and that it was viewed by some in the No 10 bunker as “the least worst option”.

Cabinet ministers were instructed to abstain from Monday’s voting process, which was devised by a cross-party alliance of MPs led by the former Conservative minister Oliver Letwin.

The customs union motion tabled by the former Tory chancellor Ken Clarke was rejected by a margin of just three votes, by 273 to 276, while a second Brexit referendum fell short of a majority by only 12 votes.

Related: How did each MP vote on the second round of indicative votes?

The Norway-style “common market 2.0” Brexit deal championed by Boles was also rejected, by 261 votes to 282, despite Labour frontbench and SNP support. Just 33 Conservative MPs backed it.

Boles said: “I have failed, chiefly because my party fails to compromise” – and made the dramatic announcement to MPs that he would no longer sit in the House of Commons as a Conservative before leaving the chamber.

His emotional statement emphasised the toxic atmosphere in the Tory party over Brexit. One outspoken leaver, Mark Francois, told the BBC’s World Tonight he believed the chancellor had been privately encouraging MPs to support a customs union, in what he called a “coup”.

“If you’re listening, Mr Hammond,” he added, “my fraternal message to you is: ‘Up yours!’” Less outspoken Brexiters were also delighted by Monday night’s deadlock, believing it will lead to a no-deal Brexit.

All three alternative Brexit options lost by a significantly narrower margin than the prime minister’s deal, however, which was rejected for a third time by 58 votes last Friday.

MPs also declined to back a separate attempt by the SNP MP Joanna Cherry to allow parliament to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

Related: Brexit: what are the four options and how did MPs vote?

After parliament had its say, cabinet ministers will have to decide whether to tack towards a closer future relationship with the EU in an attempt to build a majority; head for a no-deal Brexit on 12 April; or give May’s deal a final shot this week, probably on Wednesday.

Several cabinet ministers, including Andrea Leadsom and Liam Fox, are adamant that a no-deal exit would be preferable to a customs union – and they claim the support of more than half of the parliamentary party, many of whom signed a letter to May making the point.

The home secretary, Sajid Javid, a contender to succeed May as Conservative leader, made his position clear on Monday, tweeting that a customs union might appear to be “some kind of soft comfort blanket” but was “in reality more of a straitjacket”.

However, another well-organised group of ministers, including Amber Rudd and David Gauke, are determined to avoid no deal and believe May should instead seek a cross-party consensus.

A cabinet source said: “I honestly just think the prime minister needs to make a firm decision.”

Related: Electoral Commission says new Vote Leave investigation 'not in public interest'

Ministers have been told to expect three hours of political cabinet – excluding civil servants – on Tuesday morning, and another two hours of full cabinet in the afternoon.

May’s official spokesman underlined her continued objections to Britain remaining part of a customs union on Monday. “She has said on a number of occasions that she believes it is important for the UK to have its own trade policy,” he said.

No 10 has not ruled out bringing the prime minister’s deal back to the House of Commons for a fourth time if the Speaker will allow it.

May could table it together with an amendment submitted last week by the Labour MPs Gareth Snell and Lisa Nandy allowing parliament a greater say in the next stage of the Brexit negotiations. That could help the government to circumvent the Speaker’s ruling that May cannot bring her deal back unchanged.

May said last Friday that she would accept the Snell-Nandy amendment, and Conservative whips hope it could attract the support of a string of Labour MPs from pro-Brexit seats this week. But just five voted for her deal last week after hearing that she would back it.

If she brings her deal back, the prime minister is likely to seek to pit it against a backbench-led effort to push the government towards a softer deal, sharpening the dilemma for Brexiters, who prefer a cleaner break with the EU.

The schools minister, Nadhim Zahawi, said: “I would like the option that parliament comes up with put up against the prime minister’s deal. I am confident that the prime minister’s deal would win the day.”

She is also expected to point to the risks that failure to agree a solution could result in a risky general election.

Many Conservative MPs, including Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg, changed sides to support her deal on Friday after May’s promise to leave Downing Street if she won the vote. May has invited those MPs who switched sides in favour of her deal to meet her, in the latest attempt to shore up support.

EU27 leaders have granted Britain an extension to the article 50 deadline to 12 April, but if May wants to avoid no deal she will have to request a longer extension at an emergency EU summit next week.

Brussels sources say that would be granted only if the prime minister points to a plausible alternative Brexit plan that could command the support of a stable majority in the Commons.

Related: UK 'silver spoon' cabinet will escape Brexit fallout, says German minister

While the backbench-led debate on Brexit options continued on Monday, MPs were also holding a separate discussion triggered by a mass petition calling for article 50 to be revoked, which has gained more than 6m signatures. The petition is the most popular in parliament’s history.

The Independent Group MP Chuka Umunna said young people would suffer the worst effects of no deal. “They are the ones who will never forgive this generation of politicians if we allow this catastrophe to happen,” he said.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-dea...212649285.html

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Brexit delayed for second time as Theresa May asks for further extension of Article 50
Yahoo News UK Will Metcalfe,Yahoo News UK


BREAKING: Theresa May says Brexit must be delayed again

Theresa May has said Brexit will be delayed for a second time.

Speaking after seven hours of talks the Prime Minister offered to meet Jeremy Corbyn to come up with a plan for Brexit.

The UK had been due to leave the European Union on March 29 but following a failure to reach a deal Brexit was delayed until April 12.

But on April 2 the Prime Minister told the nation she was requesting a further extension of Article 50.

Cabinet ministers arrived at Number 10 at around 9am for what was originally due to be a five-hour meeting.
Mrs May has offered to sit down with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to thrash out a Brexit agreement to ensure the UK does not leave the EU without a deal. (PA)

Mrs May said she hoped to agree a deal with Mr Corbyn which could be put to the Commons for approval before the April 10 European Council summit, but, if that cannot be achieved, then a number of alternative options could be put to the vote.

Insisting that any resolution should take the UK out of the EU by May 22, Mrs May said: “This is a decisive moment in the story of these islands and it will require national unity to deliver the national interest.”

Mrs May said: “I have always been clear that we could make a success of no-deal in the long term but leaving with a deal is the best solution.

“So we will need a further extension of Article 50 – one that is as short as possible and which ends when we pass a deal.

“And we need to be clear what such an extension is for: to ensure we leave in a timely and orderly way.

“This debate, this division, cannot drag on much longer.”

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Mutiny! Tory MPs urge cabinet to oust May over Corbyn Brexit talks
Sky News Jon Craig, chief political correspondent,Sky News

Theresa May is facing a bitter backlash from Tory MPs after calling for national unity and offering talks with Jeremy Corbyn to agree a Brexit plan.

She is likely to face an onslaught from Conservative Brexiteers at Prime Ministers Questions this afternoon after her controversial proposal to negotiate with the Labour leader.

Ominously for the PM, Boris Johnson has joined the Brexiteer backlash, which has seen some Tory MPs urge cabinet ministers to stage a mutiny and move to oust her immediately.

With some Conservative MPs now fearing Brexit is in jeopardy, the former party leader Iain Duncan Smith told Sky News: "This is an utter disaster. We are just about to legitimise Corbyn. It's appalling."

Unveiling her new direction after a marathon seven-hour Cabinet meeting, the PM said: "This is a difficult time for everyone. Passions are running high on all sides of the argument.

"But we can and must find the compromises that will deliver what the British people voted for. This is a decisive moment in the story of these islands. And it requires national unity to deliver the national interest."

The PM's national unity move comes amid claims that at the Cabinet meeting 14 ministers backed a no-deal Brexit, with 10 against, but she chose to talk to Mr Corbyn instead.

Responding to Mrs May's statement, the Labour leader says he would be happy to meet the prime minister and is pleased she has indicated she will accept the will of parliament and is prepared to reach out.

"We hold in reserve our right to bring a motion of no confidence in the government if it proves it is incapable of commanding a majority in the Commons: time will tell on that," he said.

"Our priority is to make sure we don't crash out and is to make sure we have a government that does command a majority in the House and does indeed command the majority support across the country. At the moment we don't have that."

Mr Corbyn says his demands in his talks with the PM will include:
:: A customs union with the EU and access to markets
:: Protecting consumer and environmental standards and workers' rights
:: Guaranteeing the Good Friday Agreement

But pro-Remain Labour MPs - backed by deputy leader Tom Watson and shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer - are also demanding a referendum on the Brexit deal.

On the Tory back benches, the PM's offer to Mr Corbyn has inflamed the party's civil war.

Speaking after a meeting of the European Research Group (ERG) that MPs present told Sky News was "tempestuous", leader Jacob Rees-Mogg said: "I think getting the support of a known Marxist is not likely to instil confidence in Conservatives.

"This approach to government is an unsuccessful one and it also lacks democratic legitimacy.

"People did not vote for a Corbyn-May coalition government - they voted for a Conservative government, which became a confidence and supply with the DUP.

"This is a deeply unsatisfactory approach - it's not in the interests of the country, it fails to deliver on the referendum result and history doesn't bode well for it."

Mr Johnson, who is campaigning for the Tory leadership, said: "It is very disappointing that the cabinet has decided to entrust the final handling of Brexit to Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party."

And Tory MP Henry Smith tweeted: "Theresa May represents a monumental failure of British leadership, a betrayal of the majority who voted to leave the EU and Conservative Party membership.

"I called for her to go last year, incredibly she has descended further still. I cannot countenance her Corbyn/Brexit process."

Another senior ERG member Daniel Kawczynski told Sky News: "Somebody has to take the first step now and say 'I voted against the withdrawal agreement on three occasions but now I'll back the PM, because I can see us losing Brexit'.

"And if we were to lose Brexit the electorate would pass judgement on the Conservative Party."

There was also a hostile reaction from the Democratic Unionist Party, whose MPs said in a statement: "The prime minister's lamentable handling of the negotiations with the EU means she has failed to deliver a sensible Brexit deal that works for all parts of the United Kingdom.

"That is why she has not been able to get it through parliament. Her announcement therefore tonight comes as little surprise.

"Though it remains to be seen if sub-contracting out the future of Brexit to Jeremy Corbyn, someone whom the Conservatives have demonised for four years, will end happily.

"We want the result of the referendum respected, and just as we joined the common market as one country we must leave the EU as one country.

"We will continue to use our position within parliament and with the government to argue strongly the case for Northern Ireland and the integrity of the United Kingdom.

"We remain consistent in judging all Brexit outcomes against our clear unionist principles."

But defending the Prime Minister on Sky News, environment secretary Michael Gove insisted the Conservative Party was not going to split over her latest decision.

"I don't think we're splitting," he said. "I think what we're doing is ensuring everybody is focused on making sure we leave the EU at the earliest possible point."

On the DUP saying it could not back the current deal, Mr Gove said: "We want the DUP to support our approach. I think it's important we leave the EU as one UK."

And on his own leadership ambitions, Mr Gove added: "I'm concentrating on making sure we leave the EU, that is front and centre of my mind and everything else is secondary."

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/mutiny-tor...004000000.html

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'She's f***** us': Livid Tory Brexiteers lash out at Theresa May for opening door to Labour collaboration
Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK


Tories have continued to vent their intense anger at Theresa May over her decision to meet with Jeremy Corbyn for talks over the Brexit deadlock.

Two ministers quit in protest today with a host of Tory MPs also speaking out. One, Caroline Johnson, highlighted what she called “the risk of letting down the country and ushering in a Marxist, anti-Semite-led government”.

Mrs May said on Tuesday that she would seek an extension beyond next week to allow negotiations with the Labour leader aimed at getting a Brexit deal through Parliament.

Mr Corbyn said he would be “very happy” to meet the Prime Minister in a bid to offer “certainty and security” to the British people – but Tory Brexiteers have reacted with anger.

Mr Corbyn said his demands in Brexit talks would be a customs union with the EU and access to markets, as well as protecting consumer and environmental standards and workers’ rights and guaranteeing the Good Friday Agreement.

However, he stopped short of demanding a second referendum, despite huge pressure from MPs in his own party.

Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay admitted today that another Brexit vote is an option on the table in the talks between two leaders.

Mrs May met Mr Corbyn on Wednesday afternoon before holding talks with Nicola Sturgeon, who warned that she wasn’t “entirely clear” where the PM was prepared to compromise.

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Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.”

Watch the debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1uM...ature=youtu.be

Read the transcript: https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...eEuropeanUnion

Read the research: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/

The petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

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Brexit: bill to prevent no-deal passes Commons by one vote
The Guardian Jessica Elgot Chief political correspondent,The Guardian


A cross-party group of MPs has forced through an emergency bill in less than six hours to instruct Theresa May to seek an extension to article 50 and avoid a no-deal Brexit, despite government opposition.
The bill, spearheaded by Labour’s Yvette Cooper and the Conservative Sir Oliver Letwin, passed late into the night, with MPs defeating a number of obstructive amendments from both Brexiters and the government.

It finally passed its third reading about half an hour before midnight by just one vote – 313 ayes to 312 noes – and must now pass the House of Lords.

The bill was almost scuppered during a frenzied day in parliament after MPs initially voted by a majority of just one – 312 to 311 – to let the snap bill proceed.
Cooper and Letwin then had six hours to pass the bill’s second reading, committee stage and third reading through the House of Commons.

Minutes before the narrow first vote, an amendment from Labour’s Hilary Benn to grant more time was blocked in extraordinary circumstances, as the Speaker, John Bercow, was forced to make the casting vote after a tied result in the Commons.

Benn’s amendment, which would have given MPs control over the order paper on Monday to hold further indicative votes, fell after MPs’ votes were tied with 310 each way.

Bercow said it was precedent for the Speaker to vote with the government, which had opposed the motion and the amendments. “In accordance with precedent and on the principle that important decisions should not be taken except by majority, I cast my vote with the noes,” he said. “That is the proper way in which to proceed.”

The Speaker said the situation had not occurred since 1993, a vote that had involved the Maastricht treaty bill.

The government opposed both the Cooper-Letwin motion and Benn’s amendment. The Commons leader, Andrea Leadsom, argued earlier in the debate that the government had already said it would request a short extension.

Speaking in the debate, Letwin said the government’s plan to seek an extension was an “enormously welcome development” and he did not have doubts that they would seek to avoid a no-deal Brexit, but there was still a need to pass legislation.

The veteran Brexiter Bill Cash called the bill “reprehensible” and said it would set a terrible precedent for the government to rush through legislation in a single day. “This is something profoundly undemocratic,” he said.

Cooper said the bill would deliberately not specify the length of an extension. “It should be for the prime minister to put a proposal forward,” she said. “It is right she puts that forward, and then the house will decide.”

Labour and the SNP whipped in support of the motion. MPs voted through the second stage of the bill at 7pm and after voting on a long series of amendments passed it around 11.30pm.

During the marathon session of late night votes, 91 Conservative MPs rebelled against a government amendment which would have allowed the Brexit secretary to agree an extension date without needing parliament’s approval. Dozens of Tory Brexiters opposed the amendment, suggesting Eurosceptics wanted to reserve the right to vote down a long extension.

The newly passed legislation could be debated in the Lords as soon as Friday or Monday, where it is likely to encounter attempts to frustrate its progress by Eurosceptic peers. However, Labour sources in the Lords said supportive peers were preparing to stay up all night to insure against any attempts to filibuster the legislation.

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I have noticed those that shout loudest about the will of the people are dead against asking the people what they would vote for now in another referendum--curious.
Seems a bit hypocritical---people do change their minds.
More might be for leaving now or not at the case might be.
Chris


15 ministers 'close to quitting' as Philip Hammond says second referendum is credible
Yahoo News UK Andy Wells,Yahoo News UK 6



Philip Hammond has said a second Brexit referendum is a ‘perfectly credible’ option as warring ministers continue to clash over Brexit.

The Chancellor warned that UK faces a potentially lengthy delay to Brexit and indicated the Tories could be prepared to compromise on a customs union – an idea that enrages Brexiteer ministers.

Arch Eurosceptic MP Steve Baker told MailOnline: “The Chancellor has come up with about the stupidest suggestion I could imagine. Look at the rage and despair created by asking Parliament to choose between Brexit in name only or no Brexit, and then imagine the public reaction.

“Is he trying to destroy all faith in democracy?”

Theresa May’s decision to meet with Jeremy Corbyn and seek a softer Brexit has already cost her two ministers – with many more reportedly ready to quit.

According to The Sun, 10 junior ministers and five members of the cabinet are said to be “on the edge” of resigning in protest at the Prime Minister’s plans.

One of those ministers told the paper: “Many, many colleagues in government are just seething and a lot of us are on the edge now – some over a customs union, others over European Parliament elections.

“What’s for sure is if she asks for a long extension next week it will mean mass resignations.”

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/15-ministe...065503678.html

[Matthew]

The British people had a say, in an epic and historical referendum. The referendum was about leave or stay. The way the European Commission has negotiated it's as if the British people voted for a new deal. We didn't, we voted to leave. No-deal Brexit was meant to kick in if the European Commission couldn't understand what 'leave' meant. (It's only remainers who complain Brexit wasn't clearly represented by the way, not Brexiteers.)

Greybeard I want to ask you, when Scotland finally leave the UK (more correctly to say if, but what I hear in conversations with Scottish friends makes me think it's simply a matter of time and patience, but is inevitable), and after that referendum in which Scotland vote to leave the UK, you would expect to leave? Or would you think it ok for English sympathisers to lobby for another Scottish referendum?

[avid]

Just to remind folks what happened to Ireland when they voted a resounding NO to the Lisbon Treaty...
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-lisbon-treaty
They had to vote ‘again’ under duress until the EU directive was satisfied.... truly horrendous, blackmail, is this what is now happening via the globalist ‘lobby’ in the UK? Swiftly going in that direction....

[greybeard]

Posted by YoYoYo (here)
The British people had a say, in an epic and historical referendum. The referendum was about leave or stay. The way the European Commission has negotiated it's as if the British people voted for a new deal. We didn't, we voted to leave. No-deal Brexit was meant to kick in if the European Commission couldn't understand what 'leave' meant. (It's only remainers who complain Brexit wasn't clearly represented by the way, not Brexiteers.)

Greybeard I want to ask you, when Scotland finally leave the UK (more correctly to say if, but what I hear in conversations with Scottish friends makes me think it's simply a matter of time and patience, but is inevitable), and after that referendum in which Scotland vote to leave the UK, you would expect to leave? Or would you think it ok for English sympathisers to lobby for another Scottish referendum?

ts a fair question YoYo.
I dont have a position but I do observe lies on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Before the referendum the public were lied to blatantly--we would be more prosperous the NHS would have much more money--we would have trade deals with the rest of the world--none of this is true--Japanese car manufacturers are pulling out--they need us in the market to export cars easily to Europe.
All the forecasts are that UK will be worse off out of the EU market--not saying I believe any stories for or against.

Scotland voted to stay in the EU--The SNP has been clear about home rule for a long time.
Now if that happens and Scotland is in the EU and England is not then there would be a hard border between England and Scotland.
I havent voted since I was 18 and I am not going to vote for Home Rule
If Brexit happens in any shape or form I accept that--If it does not happen then I accept that.

At one point in time I was the local chairman of the FSB Federation of Small Business.
The rules and regulations that came from being in the EU were copper plated by our civil servants quite often
A few paragraphs became pages.
However business suffered with the regulations--they were expensive to implement.
Some health and safety were sensible and good.

Whatever way it goes some will benefit and some will not thats life.

A referendum is different from a vote.
If Scottish people vote for the SNP then they know and have known for years where that is likley to go.
A referendum is not legally binding.
The Scots did not vote for Brexit but if it happens they will have to accept it

However its hypothetical as is your question--I doubt that Scotland will ever get home rule.


Chris

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Three quarters of Corbyn’s constituents back Final Say on Brexit, poll reveals, with Labour leader under pressure from party to secure new referendum
The Independent Tom Barnes,The Independent


Three quarters of Corbyn’s constituents back Final Say on Brexit, poll reveals, with Labour leader under pressure from party to secure new referendum

Three quarters of Jeremy Corbyn’s own constituents back a Final Say referendum on Brexit, new polling has revealed, as the Labour leader faces pressure from within his parliamentary party to back a second vote.

A nationwide survey of 9,500 people conducted by campaign group Right to Vote found 58.1 per cent who expressed a view, now want another public vote on the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union.

Polling found high levels of support for the idea in London, including in Mr Corbyn’s Islington North seat, where 75 per cent of those polled backed a Final Say.

In Theresa May’s Maidenhead constituency, 59 per cent of voters also supported the idea.

The same percentage of voters in leading Brexiteer Boris Johnson’s Uxbridge and Ruislip South constituency were also behind the idea of a public vote.

Conservative MP Dr Phillip Lee, chair of Right to Vote, revealed the findings at Prime Minister’s Questions on Wednesday – a day after Ms May announced she would be seeking another extension to Article 50.

The group was formed by several MPs in January in response to what it describes as the “government’s failure to navigate Brexit”.

Members include former Tory ministers Dominic Grieve, Justine Greening and Sam Gyimah, as well as Independent Group MPs Heidi Allen, Anna Soubry and Dr Sarah Wollaston, who quit the party in February.

“Asking for more time and opposition help to salvage a deal nobody wants is yet again merely delaying the moment of truth,” Mr Grieve said. “We need a meaningful delay to agree a practical and credible proposal which can be put to the people for a final say. What started with the people should end with the people.”

The new polling data comes as senior figures within Labour demand Mr Corbyn seeks to secure a second referendum as part of any cross-party Brexit deal struck with Ms May.

A string of Labour MPs, including frontbenchers such as shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry, have written an open letter to Mr Corbyn in The Independent, insisting it would be “untenable for Labour not to insist” on taking the decision back to the public.

Mr Corbyn is holding talks with the prime minister in a bid to break the impasse in parliament and find a Brexit deal that can win enough support to get through the Commons.

“The views of members are clear. Labour’s democratically established policy, passed at party conference in September 2018, is to oppose a Brexit deal which does not meet Labour’s six tests and put any deal that does to a public vote,” the group of Labour MPs wrote in their open letter. “It would be untenable for Labour not to insist on a public vote on a deal which did not meet these tests.”

“We – your supporters – urge you to make a confirmatory public vote your bottom line in negotiations with Theresa May and to fight to bring this government down.”

Source note: Data was collected by FocalData from multiple researchers, including Opinium, between 1 March and 1 April 2019. A sample of 9,500 adults were interviewed from 632 constituencies across Britain. Opinium are members of the British Polling Council and abide by their rule

[Matthew]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by YoYoYo (here)
The British people had a say, in an epic and historical referendum. The referendum was about leave or stay. The way the European Commission has negotiated it's as if the British people voted for a new deal. We didn't, we voted to leave. No-deal Brexit was meant to kick in if the European Commission couldn't understand what 'leave' meant. (It's only remainers who complain Brexit wasn't clearly represented by the way, not Brexiteers.)

Greybeard I want to ask you, when Scotland finally leave the UK (more correctly to say if, but what I hear in conversations with Scottish friends makes me think it's simply a matter of time and patience, but is inevitable), and after that referendum in which Scotland vote to leave the UK, you would expect to leave? Or would you think it ok for English sympathisers to lobby for another Scottish referendum?

ts a fair question YoYo.
I dont have a position but I do observe lies on both sides of the Brexit debate.
Before the referendum the public were lied to blatantly--we would be more prosperous the NHS would have much more money--we would have trade deals with the rest of the world--none of this is true--Japanese car manufacturers are pulling out--they need us in the market to export cars easily to Europe.
All the forecasts are that UK will be worse off out of the EU market--not saying I believe any stories for or against.

Scotland voted to stay in the EU--The SNP has been clear about home rule for a long time.
Now if that happens and Scotland is in the EU and England is not then there would be a hard border between England and Scotland.
I havent voted since I was 18 and I am not going to vote for Home Rule
If Brexit happens in any shape or form I accept that--If it does not happen then I accept that.

At one point in time I was the local chairman of the FSB Federation of Small Business.
The rules and regulations that came from being in the EU were copper plated by our civil servants quite often
A few paragraphs became pages.
However business suffered with the regulations--they were expensive to implement.
Some health and safety were sensible and good.

Whatever way it goes some will benefit and some will not thats life.

A referendum is different from a vote.
If Scottish people vote for the SNP then they know and have known for years where that is likley to go.
A referendum is not legally binding.
The Scots did not vote for Brexit but if it happens they will have to accept it

However its hypothetical as is your question--I doubt that Scotland will ever get home rule.


Chris

The question I echoed was hypothetical, and I couldn't agree more that the "UK independence as Scottish independence" question (if asked in general rather than to you personally) is fair! It was asked by a friend of mine from Harris to a group of English Remainers, where I was keeping schtum about my own opinion. I heard him put it like that and something dinged inside me, and as he went on to say "She's Elizabeth the first to us" I remembered the SNP MP Mhairi Black, and asked him her name, because I could just remember "Marry" (pronunciation of Mhairi). You may not vote Chris, but I am jealous of your MP's you have over there, I thnk she's great. Thank you for elaborating in your answer; enjoyed the reading - Matthew

**updated**
"UK independence" instead of "English independence"... Sorry to the other UK countries

[greybeard]

Mathew yes on the whole I think Scottish MPs are honest and genuinely supportive of those less well off.
People matter.

I suspect that there will be another referendum and Brexit wont happen, people will probably vote for the status quo

Because Im a pensioner the result is not so relevant to me personally.
So I can sit and watch without getting stressed by it all.

I appreciate that it is vitally important to many.

My three sons and son in law are self employed and they may well be affected by the end result which ever way it goes.
.Time will tell.
Chris

[Matthew]

Every region of England and Wales happy to leave the EU without a deal - except London if extension refused
Christopher Hope, chief political correspondent, The Torygraph, 3 APRIL 2019 • 6:33PM. I mean Telegraph.

Every English and Welsh region outside the M25 is happy to leave the European Union without a deal if no agreement can be reached by the end of next week.

The study by YouGov asked voters “if Britain has not agreed a deal by April 12th, what do you think should happen?”.

The research found that only people living in London did not want to leave without a deal.

In London 48 per cent of voters agreed that “Britain should withdraw our application to leave and remain in the EU” against 26pc who backed leaving without a deal.

The picture was reversed outside London however. In the rest of the South of England 44pc were in favour of no-deal against 34pc who wanted to revoke the decision to leave.

(continued...)

Full article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...u-immediately/

[norman]

Posted by YoYoYo (here)

Every region of England and Wales happy to leave the EU without a deal - except London if extension refused

That will probably scare the rats out of giving the people a stage 2 vote then.

[greybeard]

Britain heading for further Brexit delay as PM asks Tusk for second extension
Yahoo News UK Jane Howdle,Yahoo News UK


Prime Minister Theresa May and European Council president Donald Tusk (PA)

Theresa May has written to the EU asking for a further delay to Brexit.

The PM has this time asked European Council president Donald Tusk for an extension to Article 50 to June 30.

Meanwhile, Tusk and other EU officials are considering offering the PM a flexible extension – or “flextension” – to the Article 50 timetable to March 31 2020.

According to the BBC, Tusk is preparing to put the option to EU leaders at a crunch summit next Wednesday in a bid to prevent the UK crashing out of the bloc on April 12.


Top-level talks aimed at finding a way out of the Brexit deadlock will continue between the Government and Labour today (Friday).

The discussions are taking place as Theresa May battles to keep her EU withdrawal agenda on track, with the issue of a new Brexit referendum continuing to be a focus of attention.

Ministers have considered the possibility of giving MPs a vote on holding a referendum on a deal as part of the talks with Labour, the Daily Telegraph reported.

It is understood the Government could set out proposals to Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in a letter today (Friday).

And Mrs May faced a continued challenge to her authority from Parliament as the House of Lords debated a Bill aimed at extending the Brexit process in a bid to avoid a no-deal scenario.
Theresa May’s letter to Donald Tusk (PA)

The remaining stages of the European Union Withdrawal (No.5) Bill will be considered by peers on Monday, threatening a new political headache for the PM if it is approved.

The Bill, brought forward by backbenchers including Labour’s Yvette Cooper, allows Parliament to determine the length of any Brexit extension the Prime Minister should request at the EU summit on April 10.

If the European Council proposes a different extension, Mrs May would be required to return to the Commons to obtain MPs’ approval.

Attorney General Geoffrey Cox said the Bill would leave the PM with little room to manoeuvre.

Referring to the Bill’s impact on a no-deal option, the Attorney General told the BBC: “It rules it out… the Prime Minister would have little choice but to accept the extension that she’s offered.”
Prime Minister Theresa May pictured during Prime Minister’s Questions in the House of Commons on April 3 (House of Commons/PA Wire)

Labour MP Siobhain McDonagh predicted a number of her colleagues could quit the party over the issue of a new referendum.

Ms McDonagh told the BBC: “There is going to be outrage if we don’t get a second vote.

“Would it be the thing that made me leave the party? I don’t think so, there are other issues for me.

“But, would it make some of my colleagues in the parliamentary Labour Party? Yes, a number have said to me that would be the moment that they would leave.”

However, a number of Labour MPs representing Leave areas have come out against the idea of a confirmatory referendum.

[greybeard]

Does this mean UK will have to vote British MEPs?

I dont go looking for news I just post the Yahoo quotes.
Accepting that Yahoo may have bias--which I dont have.

As said before its the best soap of the moment.
I think I have it figured out and "wham bam" off we go in another direction.
Chris

[norman]

This video starts off looking like it's going to be about 'Trump' but it's really about the crooks running Britain, and their determination to shut down the flow of informantion that "caused the brexit vote"....

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LD6dAFG48JU

Fight Globalism
Published on 2 Apr 2019

New leaked Documents by Anonymous reveals the British aspects to Spygate. Our age-old enemy revealed... Is this an Act of War by a hostile foreign power? Working with Communist's within our own government? Comey was a Communist, Christopher Steel was a Fabian Socialist, just like Tony Blair. Their motto is "Light the World on Fire, and Remold it nearer to the heart's desire"

Exposing a sinister state-funded underhand influence network .Internal documents talk of creating a "network of networks" to fight "malign" Russian influence. Applications for funding from the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office (FCO) promise to set up over a dozen undercover "clusters" of "competent, committed and well-connected individuals, ideally with a suitable institute affiliation" from Canada to Germany to Georgia that would be deployed in the service of specific anti-Russian "goals."

We are in a fight for the future of humanity. If the patriots of America don't fight back peacefully and politically in the information war, I am afraid we will see a World Wide Collectivist Scientific Oligarchy, that will last for 1,000 generations. This is not a game.

[Did You See Them]

I'm sure this has already been posted but this about sums up what damage has been done to 100% of UK populations trust in government

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6PIUT8M-A