The face mask discussion

[Ernie Nemeth]

Dave, what you say must be true, because what other reason can there be for wearing one while alone in a car?

[onawah]

Closer look--"Masks Don't Work"
https://www.thehealthyamerican.org/masks-dont-work

(Lots of youtube videos also in the article)

"Science Says Healthy People Should Not Wear Masks
Email us important links you find
Click here for the page with the medical card https://www.thehealthyamerican.org/m...condition-card

“How can a person be forced by any business or government entity to wear a mask (which affects the respiratory system) without having a physical exam by a licensed doctor who approves such an action?”
~ Peggy Hall

Science Says Healthy People Should Not Wear Masks
Masks reduce intake of oxygen, leading to carbon dioxide toxicity

Germs are trapped near your mouth and nose, increasing risk of infection

Wearing a mask causes you to touch your face more frequently

There is no scientific evidence that supports healthy people wearing masks

Masks obscure your facial features and impede normal social interaction

Masks make it hard for hearing-impaired people to understand you

Masks symbolize suppression of speech

MASKS DO NOT PREVENT SPREAD OF VIRUS
KEY FINDINGS:

(1) New England Journal of Medicine:
"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection." LINK HERE https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

(2) CAL-OSHA Regulations:
”Cloth face coverings do not protect against COVD -19” LINK HERE https://dir.ca.gov/dosh/coronavirus/...-Logistics.pdf

(3) California Department of Health:
"Face coverings may increase risk if users reduce their use of strong defenses."
"There is limited evidence to suggest that use of cloth face coverings by the public during a pandemic could help reduce disease transmission.” LINK HERE https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID...-Guidance.aspx

(4) FDA - “Even a properly fitted N95 mask does not prevent illness or death” LINK HERE https://web.archive.org/web/20200516...sks-face-masks

(5) CDC — There is no scientific evidence for healthy people wearing masks. : Watch “CDC Mask Deception”

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OUUOq1ksiQQ

(6) Neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock :
”There is no scientific evidence that masks are effective. If you are not sick, you should not wear a face mask.” LINK HERE https://www.cugmhp.org/five-on-frida...ReHuKSPPmy2wC4

(7) Columbia University: Psychological Harms of Face Masks:
"Many young children burst into tears or recoil when someone wearing a mask approaches. By putting on masks, we take away information that makes it especially difficult for children to recognize others and read emotional signals, which is unsettling and disconcerting." LINK HERE https://www.cugmhp.org/five-on-frida...ReHuKSPPmy2wC4

(8) US Surgeon General Jerome Adams:
”Masks are not effective in preventing the general public from catching coronavirus.”
LINK HERE https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/...25785283932160

(9) Dr. Anthony Fauci:
“People should not be walking around wearing masks. Masks do not provide the protection people think they do.” LINK HERE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOeVkg9P-R8

(10) WHO, Dr. Mike Ryan:
”There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there’s some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly. LINK HERE https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world...rnd/index.html

(11) US Department of Labor — OSHA:
”Oxygen deficient is any atmosphere that contains less than19.5%.” This happens when the oxygen is displaced by inert gas such as CARBON DIOXIDE and is the leading cause of FATALITIES.” LINK HERE https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/shi...deficient.html

[Jad]

Well now in Michigan it’s mandatory so I have no choice.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7_b0AhqvAVw

[DaveToo]

Posted by Jad (here)
Well now in Michigan it’s mandatory so I have no choice.

Wherever you are I would check the fine print of the regulation.
I am in Ontario and they have made face masks 'mandatory' at indoor commercial establishments.

When you read the fine print of the signs posted on the doors to enter the premises in Ontario
there are exemptions, in particular medical exemptions such as breathing difficulties, asthma etc.

If you don't push back, they will continue to push you around.

[Valerie Villars]

Our governor (Louisiana) just mandated face masks in the usual places (everywhere inside any establishment). What is more astounding is he said we are to wear face masks outside if we are around people we don't live with. Huh?

How in the world can you enforce that?

Do you know what it's like to wear a face mask in 98 degree heat with a heat index of 114 and high humidity? It feels like suffocation. It's so hot and uncomfortable that I don't even want to go to a store anymore.

America, Land of the Free.

[Mashika]

I do, i don't find any value on it, i know i can and most likely will get ill of that or a variation of the virus. I only do wear it so that other people feel safe and cool around me, it's just a perception thing but i don't even care anymore

If it helps someone feel a bit safe that's cool, and if i get ill i was going to get anyway, because no mask will prevent that for real

As far as politics go, i could not care less, i'm not part of any party anywhere in the world, yet i know that if the virus is as real as it has been made to be, and i get it, i will most likely die, little room for escaping death for me. Politics mean nothing at that point

But otherwise i could not care less, and i only wear the mask because i care a bit for other people and to me that's ok, they don't know much but what they have learned through TV or such, and i am a terrible person most times but i think i at least have to care for other people, for once?

[thepainterdoug]

the grille of your car collects bugs, dirt, and all sorts in the air. same with a mask. in my way of thinking, if wearing a mask while alone in a car, walking, running and not around people is protecting you from something, then that something is part of the atmosphere. and if it is, its in your house , your bedroom and everywhere.

its simply fear and paranoia. if the death rate from this was honestly10 % , then we would all be in a crisis. but less than 1% , and a dishonest count ?

i only wear a mask out of courtesy to others in a tight place, or when i have to based on store policy. but i dont believe its doing anything , for anyone

[happyuk]

Some reminders. It is fact that simple fabric masks allow air in around the sides, and lack non-woven, moisture-repelling layers to keep out droplets the size of Covid.

They impede about 2% of airflow, therefore making them 98% ineffective.

Orinary people do not, overall, have any access to properly made masks (the so-called N95) as used by frontline hospital doctors. Nor in fact do many (most?) GPs.

As one online wag of GP confided in me last week, "I don't wear one - they're pointless. It's like using a goal net to catch an anchovy".

I know people in the cloth trade, who know something about fabric weft and weave. The masks on general sale are at level 21/13....with only two layers. An airborne virus would sail through it.

This morning I was depressed to learn that the Boris Johnson Administration is heading for obligatory masks in shops.

In the US, Fauci is on the TV every other day saying Second Wave this and new surge that.

Just a link for those that still believe elected officials know what's best for your health@:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/09/nyc-al...-large-events/

[onawah]

DESTROYING the mask narrative especially masks and children!
Tammy K. Herrema Clark
110,074 views•Premiered Jul 3, 2020
Stand Up Michigan
17.2K subscribers

"Tammy K. Herrema Clark , executive director of Stand Up Michigan DESTROYING the mask 😷 narrative especially masks and children!
Share this video and let’s empower people to STAND UP and throw away the masks!
Information is POWER
Join and support the movement
https://www.standupmichigan.com

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TgDm_maAglM

The short version:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cCL6qoOqYic

Posted by Jad (here)
Well now in Michigan it’s mandatory so I have no choice.

[greybeard]

I was in GO the out door store today.
Staff and customers wearing masks -- even very small children-- I kept my mouth shut.
One door in another out.
I was not wearing a mask -- I said to the checkout lady on the way out that Im exempt from wearing a mask -- she said "They are most uncomfortable and they steam up my glasses" I just said Im lucky, I dont wear one. No point in saying more -- she has no choice -- wear a mask or no job.

Chris

[RunningDeer]

Catherine Austin Fitts:

The other day a policeman was trying to have an intelligent conversation with a protester who was being completely and utterly irrational. He kept trying. But he didn’t understand there was no point because she was not rational. And she was never going to be rational. And there was no way you could reach her on a rational, intellectual level. I mean you were dealing with somebody who'd been programmed. You weren’t talking to a person. You were talking to a program.

On the mask issue, you have to be prepared to manage interactions with other humans, but it's interactions with programs. And you're not necessarily talking to a person. You’re talking to an AI.

The Facts on Masks with Dr. Sherri Tenpenny Part I (1:02:31 min)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2C_Id35I23A

The Facts on Masks with Dr. Sherri Tenpenny Part II (1:14:00 min)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7E9gECZGR4k

Best Resources

From Dr. Tenpenny:

• TO COME: Dr. Tenpenny’s Survey of Studies will be posted here when ready.
  
• The Psychological Manipulation of Universal Masking - [ADDED BELOW]
  
• Update: Why Face Masks Don’t Work: A Revealing Review
  
• Masks Don’t Work: A Review of Science Relevant to COVID-19 Social Policy
  
• Was the COVID-19 Test Meant to Detect a Virus?
  
• Dr. Jack Kruse Tweet
  
• Special Interview With Dr. Russell Blaylock on Face Masks And COVID-19

From Catherine:

• LOCKDOWN LUNACY: the thinking person’s guide
  
• Blaylock: Face Masks Pose Serious Risks To The Healthy
  
• Facts about Covid-19 from Swiss Policy Research
• St. Louis Gun Owners

From Group seeking Global Mask Mandate:

• The Science Behind #Masks4All

[RunningDeer]

A suggested resource from Catherine Austin Fitts & Dr. Tenpenny:

The Psychological Manipulation of Universal Masking

by: HEATHER LEIGH

Yesterday a local doctor made a public statement that those of us who do not support mandatory universal masking can not claim to support medical freedom, and that when we refuse to submit to noninvasive “protections” such as face coverings, we lose all credibility and public respect. She refused to acknowledge my scientifically entrenched response to her statement, despite engaging (and many times belittling) almost every other person who responded to her question.

It's easy to shut down open dialogue when you rely solely on emotionally charged generalizations and ad hominem attacks, which is what she, and so many others, have attempted to do from the beginning of this Covid19 situation. By marginalizing those you disagree with and dismissing them as uncaring, negligent, and, as she put it, proponents of "oppositional behavior", you make it easy to ignore the fact that the scientific evidence and supporting data are simply not on your side. It’s a play straight from Saul Alinksy’s famous far left manifesto, “Rules for Radicals.”

“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.”

Instead of having a conversation about the reasons why someone may or may not support universal masking, we hear the following:

“You want old people to die!”

“You care more about money than you do about keeping people alive!”

“You are selfish! How do you call yourself a Christian?”

“You don’t support mandatory masking and social distancing? How do you sleep at night!?”

Despite leveling these attacks to anyone and everyone who disagree with them, most people, the good doctor included, don’t actually want to engage with those who offer a reasonable explanation for not supporting universal face coverings because, as I will lay out below, there are very valid reasons to oppose the practice. Acknowledging this fact undercuts the intended result of social and cultural intolerance directed towards any idea outside of the approved narrative.

Those of us who are not dutious to the current universal masking policies and recommendations do not, in fact, want grandma to die. Instead, we base our position on both the science behind these recommendations and the future implications of long term compliance.

For example, we know that cloth face coverings are completely ineffective in preventing viral transmission, and can actually increase your risk of bacterial respiratory infection. We know that viral particles that are exhaled gather on the OUTSIDE of masks instead of the inside, enhancing the risk of cross contamination and viral transmission, especially considering that viruses live drastically longer on cloth than they do on skin. We know that face coverings increase the instances that a person touches their face and/or covering due to readjustments, releasing increased moisture buildup and because face coverings increase nasal drainage which can be another mode of transmission all on its own.

We understand that cross contamination is a real danger when face coverings are not donned and doffed or laundered properly. We take into account the negative health effects of facial coverings on comorbidities (increases tachycardia, induces hypoxia, increases co2 reabsorption, may stimulate feelings of anxiety/claustrophobia due to inadequate gas exchange, ect).

The World Health Organization has spoken out against universal masking for these exact reasons, and OSHA has stated that only those employees deemed to be high risk or in high risk fields should be masked. The science is very clear that universal masking is contraindicated, yet those of us who choose to rely on science are demonized and cast to the fringes of society as public enemy number one.

Many of us are asking how, and more importantly, why, this happened in an otherwise seemingly reasonable society that respects an individual's right to bodily autonomy, especially considering that numerous studies have indicated that Covid19 has a similar if not slightly lower fatality rate than the seasonal flu and we don’t mask during flu season.

As a lover of history, I am reminded of a formula for social coercion used by and discussed at length in Adolph Hitler’s “Mein Kampf. Some of the key components of this formula were:

1. Keep the dogma simple and make social changes slowly over a period of time - only 1 or 2 points at a time.

2. Be forthright and powerfully direct. Speak only in telling or ordering mode.

3. Reduce concepts down to stereotypes which are black and white.

• This is for your safety.
• Masking and social distancing saves lives.
• We are in this together
• The virus is the common enemy
• We must sacrifice to defeat the enemy

4. Speak to people’s emotions and stir them constantly.

• Ohians will do the right thing.
• If you don’t mask, you don’t love your neighbor.
• The devil prowls the earth looking for bodies. So does this virus.
• Congregating in a church setting is not Christian like behavior right now.
• If you break the rules, you risk lives.

5. Use lots of repetition; repeat your points over and over again.

6. Forget scientific reasoning, balance or novelty.

• A higher prevalence rate with a decreased mortality rate means the virus is more dangerous.
• We don’t have that data, but we use that data to enforce emergency orders.

7. Focus solely on convincing people and creating zealots.

• If you don’t mask, you don’t care about the health and safety of your neighbor.
• People will mask because it’s the socially responsible thing to do.
• If you see people breaking the rules, report them to the local police and health department.
• Masking will become culturally acceptable, and not wearing a mask will be considered socially irresponsible.

8. Find slogans which can be used to drive the movement forward.

• Don Your Mask, Don Your Cape.
• Stay Home, Save Lives
• In This Together Ohio
• Let’s Save Lives Together
• Stay Safe Ohio

I am in no way comparing Mike DeWine to Adolph Hiter, but rather highlighting the social coercion tactics that have been used to induce compliance and create social friction between the consenting and the non-consenting across the ages. It is a matter of psychological manipulation laced with fear that can convince a society to shake off their freedom and embrace a fallacy that leads to chains.

For many, a mask symbolizes unity with one another and a weapon against the universal covid19 enemy. But for those of us who understand that the face coverings do not protect us from this virus, we are left asking what their intended purpose could be.

• Are they meant to be a visual trigger for a subconscious fear?
• Are they meant to create an urgency and demand for a covid19 vaccine that would otherwise be rejected?
• Are they meant to create an artificial barrier between a previously highly social society?

I don’t know. But what I do know is that they will not protect me or protect you from Covid19, and therefore they’re useless. And I simply can not comply with a recommendation or a mandate that doesn’t do what we’re being told it is intended to do, even if that stance turns the public ire on myself. And I hope that, before you demand that I “Don my mask, don my cape”, you contemplate exactly why you’re willing to stand on the other side of science to do so.

For some, it’s virtue signaling, but for many, they truly believe they are contributing to the greater good, and I commend you for that. I just hope that you remember that, I too, believe that I am fighting for the greater good when I stand in defiance of what I believe to be government overreach and manipulation by refusing to wear a mask. We can both do what we feel is right in this situation and I promise you that if I see you in the store wearing a face covering, I will simply smile at you in passing without ever questioning your moral compass or social obligation. I simply hope that you can do the same.

Sincerely,

A nurse who believes we can value life without sacrificing liberty

"There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the stronger, and this will always be "the man in the street." Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology." ~ Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda

"Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred." ~ Joseph Goebbels

"It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise." ~ Joseph Goebbels

"Whoever can conquer the street will one day conquer the state, for every form of power politics and any dictatorship-run state has its roots in the street." ~ Joseph Goebbels

Article and Sources

[Floating]

Besides the MSM relentless badgering people to wear masks, the constant commercials showing mask wearing, and trying to guilt others into wearing masks.... It dawned on me today, this is an example of poor education. People just do NOT understand the size of the virus vs the mask. We are just not teaching science like we used to. IMHO.

I don't care how much I tell people that masks are useless, MSM trumps my words. We need Mayors, city councils, and Governors to understand the "flatten the curve" means. It doesn't mean NO ONE will die. People die all the time. http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239710 is always a good read.

[DaveToo]

Hundreds of thousands of people die each year from the yearly worldwide flu pandemic, just as hundreds of thousands of people are dying now from this viral pandemic.

The flu virus we get each year during the flu pandemic is a 'novel' virus , just like the 'novel' coronavirus we have now during this pandemic.

Why don't we wear facemasks during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we lockdown the world during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we social distance during the deadly flu season?

Why doesn't the MSM promote fear in the public 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic when hundreds of thousands of people will be killed by the deadly virus worldwide?

Why doesn't the MSM give daily updates on flu cases and deaths, 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic?

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by DaveToo (here)
Hundreds of thousands of people die each year from the yearly worldwide flu pandemic, just as hundreds of thousands of people are dying now from this viral pandemic.

The flu virus we get each year during the flu pandemic is a 'novel' virus , just like the 'novel' coronavirus we have now during this pandemic.

Why don't we wear facemasks during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we lockdown the world during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we social distance during the deadly flu season?

Why doesn't the MSM promote fear in the public 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic when hundreds of thousands of people will be killed by the deadly virus worldwide?

Why doesn't the MSM give daily updates on flu cases and deaths, 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic?

The flu of '68. No one ever heard of it, no one remembers ... 'rona has literally nothing on it so far as far as deaths go ... but time will tell.

[DaveToo]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by DaveToo (here)
Hundreds of thousands of people die each year from the yearly worldwide flu pandemic, just as hundreds of thousands of people are dying now from this viral pandemic.

The flu virus we get each year during the flu pandemic is a 'novel' virus , just like the 'novel' coronavirus we have now during this pandemic.

Why don't we wear facemasks during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we lockdown the world during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we social distance during the deadly flu season?

Why doesn't the MSM promote fear in the public 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic when hundreds of thousands of people will be killed by the deadly virus worldwide?

Why doesn't the MSM give daily updates on flu cases and deaths, 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic?

The flu of '68. No one ever heard of it, no one remembers ... 'rona has literally nothing on it so far as far as deaths go ... but time will tell.

Right and don't forget, the 'rona cases/death count needs to be reset to '0' in the fall, just as the cases/death count for the flu is each season.

A level playing field right?

The flu mutates each season and so will Covid. So back to '0', start a fresh.
NO CHEATING!

There's a darn good reason they named it Covid-19 (Covid-2019 - 2020).
When the new year arrives (in the fall) it will need to be called Covid-20 with fresh starting numbers (Covid-2020 - 2021).

[ClearWater]

Posted by DaveToo (here)
Hundreds of thousands of people die each year from the yearly worldwide flu pandemic, just as hundreds of thousands of people are dying now from this viral pandemic.

The flu virus we get each year during the flu pandemic is a 'novel' virus , just like the 'novel' coronavirus we have now during this pandemic.

Why don't we wear facemasks during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we lockdown the world during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we social distance during the deadly flu season?

Why doesn't the MSM promote fear in the public 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic when hundreds of thousands of people will be killed by the deadly virus worldwide?

Why doesn't the MSM give daily updates on flu cases and deaths, 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic?

You know, I've thought about bringing up this point when discussing masks with people. I haven't done it yet though because I have a feeling it will just help convince them that we should be social distancing and wearing masks to protect us all from the flu as well.

Apparently I'm feeling a bit cynical when it comes to this subject.

[DaveToo]

Posted by ClearWater (here)

Posted by DaveToo (here)
Hundreds of thousands of people die each year from the yearly worldwide flu pandemic, just as hundreds of thousands of people are dying now from this viral pandemic.

The flu virus we get each year during the flu pandemic is a 'novel' virus , just like the 'novel' coronavirus we have now during this pandemic.

Why don't we wear facemasks during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we lockdown the world during the deadly flu season?

Why don't we social distance during the deadly flu season?

Why doesn't the MSM promote fear in the public 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic when hundreds of thousands of people will be killed by the deadly virus worldwide?

Why doesn't the MSM give daily updates on flu cases and deaths, 24/7, during the yearly flu pandemic?

You know, I've thought about bringing up this point when discussing masks with people. I haven't done it yet though because I have a feeling it will just help convince them that we should be social distancing and wearing masks to protect us all from the flu as well.

Apparently I'm feeling a bit cynical when it comes to this subject.

I would bring it up with them if you have a chance.
For you see, you are assuming that they enjoy wearing masks, social distancing and lockdowns.
My guess is very few do.

Try to reason with them.
Ask them why governments haven't mandated the same drastic measures being taken now for this virus,
for the flu virus.

Explain to them that both viruses kill hundreds of thousands of people and are both pandemics.

If they start to put on their thinking caps, they should begin to realize that we've gotten along very well thank you
for centuries, without taking drastic measures each year for the flu.

If the media doesn't publicize the hundreds of thousands who die each year from the flu (which they don't) then most of the public isn't even aware of it.

Yet the flu virus is passed from person to person at work, play, in airplanes, boats, trains, buses, metro trains etc.

But life continues and no one thinks twice about it.

[greybeard]

Was at the opticians today in the shopping mall
I was asked on the phone the usual pre visit corona questions-- I took the opportunity to say Iwas exempt.
The receptionist asked if Ihad a Dr letter said " The Dr said I did not need one"
Shesaid that fine I will put it on your file,
She also said -- clients are turning up with badges--I am exempt -- I said I had one ordered -- thats true

So I would advise check the legislation and see if you are exempt.
No one has the right to ask for medical reasons why you are exempt.
If in doubt check with your GP
The more people who go about their business without a mask the better.
No need to make a big deal about it.

Chris

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by greybeard (here)
The more people who go about their business without a mask the better.

But always remember: separately and independent from the issues of personal freedom and individual rights — the purpose of the mask isn't to protect you. It's to protect others.

Many members posting here, after all this time, still assume that wearing a mask is to protect yourself.

It's not. That's why the personal freedom and individual rights issue is so hard to resolve.