Avoiding the Experimental Vaccine

[Sue (Ayt)]

Posted by Old Student (here)
At least one truly awful thing about it is that it kills people. Here in the U.S. it has now killed over 600,000 people. Our worst war, the Civil War, killed only slightly more people.

There is some question on the accuracy of that number.

One other truly awful thing is that 1/3 of those symptomatic and surviving are "long haulers" having symptoms of COPD, nerve damage, and vascular damage. The virus attacks ACE sites, the things that control your blood vessels for dilation and constriction.

The spike protein attacks the ACE sites, I believe it was stated in the SALK studies, even sans the virus. Plus - there have been reports appearing of the same "long haul" effects for some folks after vaccination.

I had the vaccine (Moderna) both shots, I said so before. On the second shot, I got a fever, and had complications from the fever (it would not have mattered what caused the fever to have had those complications). That probably ranks the top of the stories you are collecting -- I was sick for several days. Not from the shot, not from the fever, but from those complications -- I have a chronic problem with apnea and it triggered it for a very long bout.

Old Student, I don't understand why you don't see the complications that you had following the vaccine as being a result of the vaccine? Apnea is a breathlessness, shortness of breath... Isn't that a common "spike protein" reaction whether from covid itself, or the vaccine? (I may have this wrong.)

Absolutely none of that is worse than letting the virus run rampant believing you'll get to herd immunity. If you are good at research, you should know that almost nothing gets to herd immunity without a vaccine. People who think otherwise should go look up smallpox, gonorrhea, polio, malaria, measles or any of the other diseases that absolutely don't go away without vaccines. This virus is ten times more deadly than the flue and about the infectiousness of the common cold or worse.

I don't believe there is a vaccine for gonorrhea nor for malaria. Treatments go a long way in tackling disease, too. That research seems to be sadly lacking or deliberately squeelched with this disease. Why do you suppose that is happening?
Also - I have read nothing that guarantees herd immunity with this new mRNA vaccine for this disease yet. Much wishful thinking, planted by tptb in the minds of the public to make people assume this is the case, but still wishful thinking.

[pyrangello]

Is Ivermectin The New Penicillin? / https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/i...new-penicillin You can get this in a script in a pill form.

Ivermectin, an anti-parasitic drug placed the same radioactive category as Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) for the treatment of COVID-19, has reemerged as a promising treatment in the battle to extinguish the pandemic.

New York Times best-selling author Michael Capuzzo has called it the "drug that cracked Covid," writing that there are “hundreds of thousands, actually millions, of people around the world, from Uttar Pradesh in India to Peru to Brazil, who are living and not dying.”

Doctors in India are big fans.

To that end Dr. Justus R. Hope, MD asks in The Desert Review: Is Ivermectin the new Penicillin?

[Gwin Ru]

200 Indian Villagers Jump Into Saryu River To Avoid Forceful COVID-19 Vaccination

GREATGAMEINDIA
May 24, 2021

When the Health Department team arrived at the Sisoda village in Uttar Pradesh to vaccinate them, the villagers ran to the shore. When the team surrounded them at the shore almost 200 villagers jumped into the river Saryu to escape forceful COVID-19 vaccination.

Sisauda is a village with a population of 1500 people located in the Terai, 70 km from the district headquarters of Barabanki.

There is so much awareness about the adverse events from vaccine and post-vaccination deaths in this village that when the Health Department team arrived here for vaccination, about 200 villagers ran away and reached the shore of river Saryu.

When the Health Department team got information that the villagers were out of the village towards the river, they went to convince them.

Seeing the team coming towards them, the villagers could not find a way to escape and jumped into the Saryu river to avoid getting vaccinated forcefully.

Seeing the villagers leap into the river, the Health Department team requested the villagers to come out but the villagers were not ready to move out.

Later, Ramnagar SDM Rajiv Shukla and Nodal Officer Rahul Tripathi reached the spot and told the villagers that would not be vaccinated, only after which they came out of the river.

Regional Indian media is full of such incidents. There is a very high level of vaccine hesitancy mostly in rural India.

There are also cases where the Vaccination Team is not even allowed to enter the village. On the other hand in many villages the Health Team members were beaten up with sticks and stones.

In a village in Gujarat, the entire vaccination drive had to be stopped after the villagers demanded that the government take responsibility if anything happens to them after being vaccinated.

The Indian government advertises its policy to contain COVID-19 as the world’s largest vaccination drive. However, it keeps the data on adverse events and deaths after vaccination a top secret. Moreover, there is no online registry to report post-vaccination deaths or adverse effects in India.

Meanwhile, a former member of the National Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation has filed a petition in the Supreme Court of India to make public the clinical trials data and post vaccination adverse events data which is being kept secret by the government.

The petition states that in other countries, this type of observation has helped identify the occurrence of blood clots and strokes in vaccine recipients.

To counter media reports on vaccine hesitancy in India, the government has engaged Ogilvy, a PR, advertisement firm, to plant stories on the ‘perfect implementation’ of Ayushman Bharat scheme.

Ogilvy was also hired by the current government for an image makeover to win 2014 election. Our long time readers would remember the origins of Ogilvy come from British Intelligence and specifically the psychological warfare techniques they employed during World War 2.

[Bill Ryan]

An excellent summary quote from Dr Lee Merritt, in the new 'Five Doctors' video here.

When war breaks out, one of three things is going to happen:

• You're going to become a warrior;
• You're going to become a survivor;
• But if you don't appreciate what's going on, you'll become a casualty.

[onawah]

Old Student, I strongly suggest that you do some reading, starting here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1430923
Believe me, there are plenty more similar threads that you would do well to investigate, but that would be as good a place to start as any.
...Though I suspect you have gone beyond the point of being capable of objectivity.
In any case, you will find plenty of articles in them all from experts much more educated than you who differ with your views.
You remind me of a doctor I had enlisted recently to perform the one function I require of doctors (whom I avoid like the plague--I prefer prevention and taking responsibility for my own health), which is an annual checkup required by Medicaid.
At our last "checkup" performed via telephone (go figure), when I shared my views on COVID and masks, he got hysterical and started shouting at me.
He asked me where I do my food shopping, because he wanted to be sure that he wasn't there the same time I was (although at that time, masks were still not mandated, so most of the customers were unmasked.)
Then he said I would have to find another doctor, and subsequently, I got a letter from his clinic informing me that all the doctors there would refuse to accept me as a patient anymore; I had been a patient there for about 7 years.
I had already refused an unnecessary colonoscopy and another very invasive, dangerous and expensive procedure that they had begun recommending as a matter of course to senior patients, regardless of whether they had any need for them or not.
When I asked him if the clinic was getting so desperate for funds that they had to resort to such measures, he replied huffily that he was just listing me as "noncompliant".
( On further research, I discovered that many clinics were indeed losing money and so had resorted to such means to stay financially afloat.)
I guess my views on COVID were the third strike at that clinic, so I was ruled "OUT".
So much for "do no harm".
He is in his middle years still, so I'd say age is no excuse for him.
But I don't think your years excuse you either from having such huge blinders on.

Posted by Old Student (here)

OMG. I fear YOU, not the virus.
IMO you are a mind controled Manchurian Candidate. You would murder people in the name of Public Health.

Since you are accusing me of being a murderer, I think that is permission to speak freely.

I think you are spreading dangerous quack medicine to people who may just use that to make decisions that will cause them medical harm. So this person you think is a Manchurian Candidate capable of murder thinks you are practicing medicine without a license and medically negligent.

I was here for a civil discussion, I accept it that there are a lot of people, especially on this topic thread, who do not agree with my views. It's quite a different thing for a conspiracy propagator to tell me I commit murder.

[Delight]

This is great.

Texas Hospital Sued by 117 Employees For Requiring COVID Vaccine to Work
BY AILA SLISCO ON 5/28/21ATexas hospital is being sued by a group of more than 100 medical workers who allege that a requirement they receive COVID-19 vaccines forces them "to be human guinea pigs."

The overwhelming majority of employees at Houston Methodist have already been vaccinated against the virus, while the hospital has set a June 7 deadline for stragglers to get inoculated or risk losing their jobs.

Attorney Jared Woodfill says he is representing a group of 117 employees suing the hospital for "illegally requiring its employees to be injected with an experimental vaccine as a condition of employment," according to a Friday report from local ABC station KTRK.

"For the first time in the history of the United States, an employer is forcing an employee to participate in an experimental vaccine trial as a condition for continued employment," the lawsuit reportedly states.

The suit asserts that the hospital is violating the Nuremberg Code with the vaccine mandate, comparing medical workers being required to take widely-used vaccines approved for emergency use by the Food and Drug Administration to Jews and others suffering as victims of barbaric medical experiments in Nazi Germany.

Houston Methodist COVID-19 Vaccine Mandate Lawsuit Anti-Vaxxers
A group of more than 100 Houston Methodist medical workers are suing the hospital over its requirement that employees receive COVID-19 vaccines. This undated file photo shows a cardboard sign reading "No COVID Vaccine" next to a syringe, medication vials and a medical glove.

Since 2009, Houston Methodist has required its employees to choose between being vaccinated against the flu or finding employment elsewhere. Nurse Jennifer Bridges, who has worked for the hospital for more than six years vowed to sue over the COVID-19 mandate last month.

"It's not fair to be forced to inject something that we're not comfortable with," Bridges told CBS affiliate KHOU in April. "I think our rights as human beings is more important than keeping that job. If I am blacklisted, whatever it takes. I will go find another form of employment."

[Gwin Ru]

Posted by Delight (here)
I am bumping this long interview with Peter McCullough
[...]

See this post (<---)

[Delight]

I am bumping this long interview with Peter McCullough. It is suitable as extensive education for physicians on how they have been co-opted by an enemy of humanity and should feel shame. The shame should lead to a resolve to become warriors in this fight.

Nurses have been co-opted also and are all entangled in evil dealings.

FULL INTERVIEW: Dr. Peter McCullough discusses the dangers of the novel COVID vaccine and it's roll out. This is a product that had minimal testing but is being pushed on the masses. Must we all get the shot for things to "go back to normal"? Are you going to get the shot?

FULL INTERVIEW: WORLD RENOWNED DOCTOR BLOWS LID OFF OF COVID

The very foundation of "medical care" and principles that guide treatment were upended with this covid illness. All of a sudden treatment was missing the first stage before hospitals are used...community doctors trying various allopathic drugs that address symptoms. It looks like physicians lost their clinical skill but actually we see that all the "organizations" that direct physicians coordinated. They all said to MDs DO NOT TRY TO TREAT YOUR PATIENTS. As time went on, physicians were threatened it they disagreed and treated their patients.

This supports my hypothesis that there is a war on. I think it is a war on life. Our health is being deliberately and systematically threatened. The ability to access remedy is threatened and not just natural approaches are being banned. Covid was a strike at the heart of the white coat "healers". IMO it is aimed at Destroying the very idea of traditional successful allopathy. Allopathy is all about managing symptoms. In fact IMO it HAS been successful often in last resort "rescue" medicine and surgery. Physicians are professionals who are supposed to be independent synthesizers of available options. This was an attack on the ability for physicians to carry out their mission. All the medical "organizers" IN CHARGE had the intention to discourage any treatment. Looks like conspiracy, a coordinated group colluding, for attack the populace.

[Old Student]

There is some question on the accuracy of that number.

Between what? Johns Hopkins has 594K and Worldometer has 603K. That's an error bar of about 1.6%.

The spike protein attacks the ACE sites, I believe it was stated in the SALK studies, even sans the virus. Plus - there have been reports appearing of the same "long haul" effects for some folks after vaccination.

The first half of this statement is true. As for "reports" of people with long haul effects after vaccinations, please produce the results. There have been 150 million recovered from Covid, give or take any stats from countries that cannot presently count well (India, for example), and the estimate is of 1/3 have long haul symptoms. Show me where there are anywhere near even 100 people with Covid long haul symptoms from the vaccines. This is pure smoke.

Old Student, I don't understand why you don't see the complications that you had following the vaccine as being a result of the vaccine? Apnea is a breathlessness, shortness of breath... Isn't that a common "spike protein" reaction whether from covid itself, or the vaccine? (I may have this wrong.)

Yup, you have this wrong. I'm not sure why anyone would even try to do that -- pretend to tell someone what they had instead of what they did have -- except for your need to try to prove harm from the vaccine.

I have a nervous system problem which causes the apnea. I maintain a very careful balance to avoid it, I have some exercises and meditations which stop it usually. I had a fever. That's a very common side effect after the second shot, and harmless (in my case no higher than probably 100 F) but it upset that balance. What should have been a routine side effect ended up taking days to undo. Apnea is not necessarily shortness of breath. Nor is shortness of breath necessarily apnea. Covid shortness of breath is caused by fluids and destruction of lung tissue, it is a pneumonia. I have a problem with "central" apnea -- apnea caused by the body just deciding not to bother breathing. Lungs perfectly clear, no congestion, no obstruction, just no breath without consciously making myself breathe.

Maybe this is the cause of all the scariness you see out there for the vaccine -- misinterpreting what people report as symptoms.

I don't believe there is a vaccine for gonorrhea nor for malaria. Treatments go a long way in tackling disease, too. That research seems to be sadly lacking or deliberately squeelched with this disease. Why do you suppose that is happening?

Bingo! No vaccine for either. But if the statements by some on this thread were true, they should have naturally reached herd immunity. They never will. I did mention that I do math? Here's an interesting mathematical fact: If I take a hypothetical population of whom 50% have a gene that gives immunity to an always fatal disease, and 50% do not, and introduce that disease, what's your guess over generations? (Answer: The balance varies but never shifts towards immunity, the disease becomes endemic and never leaves the population). Proven by Bob May, 1984.

Herd immunity happens because of vaccines. There's no herd immunity to malaria in a refugee camp, for instance, or measles. Unless there are vaccinations for the latter, the diseases will devastate the populations, and continue to do so. In camps, the four biggest killers are measles, malaria, diarrhea, and respiratory disease. Measles was (until upended by the anti-vaxers) gone from the U.S. in herd immunity -- because of the vaccine. Now it's slightly less than gone. Measles has been with us since the dawn of time, if you have had it you have permanent immunity, and yet it requires a vaccine to achieve herd immunity. It's the statistics. To get it to die out, you need to permanently bring the rate of transmission down to rt<1. You can't do that with natural infections, except for an unsuccessful virus. Malaria, gonorrhea, measles, Covid, these are very successful viruses.

Why isn't there a vaccine for malaria? Oh, I don't know, probably because it mutates too fast, and they needed to develop better vaccine creating techniques. There's one in trials right now. Oh, and the guy who drummed up the funding (you wondered why, the why is lack of money and attention -- e.g. malaria doesn't flourish in temperate climates where the money is) is, you know, the anti-vaxer's bogeyman -- Bill Gates.

Also - I have read nothing that guarantees herd immunity with this new mRNA vaccine for this disease yet. Much wishful thinking, planted by tptb in the minds of the public to make people assume this is the case, but still wishful thinking.

Whether or not the vaccine is mRNA has no bearing on herd immunity. The mRNA vaccines are about 90% effective at both prevention and transmission. We've had herd immunity to diseases with much less efficacious vaccines before. The problem is getting enough of the herd immunized. And that may not happen if enough idiots keep passing around "censored" stuff by people like Mercola. Did you know that the "censoring" being done is being done by the FDA? The same organization that all sorts of people say they won't take the vaccine until it fully approves it? The FDA issues him a cease and desist when he goes beyond what he's legally allowed to claim and he takes it down. And somebody else digs it out of cache, puts it on a non-US server and then the "community" circulates it as the rare secret censored truth. Don't they?

You people rant against big Pharma and all the profit they make talking people into taking drugs they don't need. Mercola makes about $2.9 million/month talking people into taking drugs he produces from soup to nuts. He isn't going to tell you to take something complicated like a monoclonal antibody for Covid, he sells vitamins and supplements. So miraculously, one of his vitamins becomes the cure-all for keeping people from getting Covid (he claimed such about Vitamin D). And when he pushes that stuff beyond a certain point, which he always does, the FDA tells him he's out over his Chiropractor skiis, and he politely takes it down knowing that thousands of "followers" will resurrect it and start passing it around and cha-ching he pulls in the next month's $2.9Mil.

[Delight]

The Spike protein gets into the blood, circulates post jab and accumulates in tissues and organs......

Alex talks with Dr. Byram Bridle, an Associate Professor on Viral Immunology at the University of Guelph about new peer-reviewed studies that suggests there may be terrifying reasons side effects such as heart inflammation, VITT, and other serious issues may occur in those who have been vaccinated.

New peer reviewed study on COVID-19 vaccines suggests why heart inflammation, blood clots and other dangerous side effects occur

New Pfizer study: Four fifths of all vaccinated children aged 12 and over complain of side effects


Published: May 26, 2021

Pfizer/BioNTech published a study on the safety and use of their vaccine last Wednesday. It refers to the current status of the vaccination studies in the context of emergency approval. Some 78,9 percent of the vaccinated children developed some form of side effect.

The pharmaceutical giant released a 37-page “fact sheet” of its product on 19 May on security and application republished by Report24. It refers to the current status of vaccination studies in the context of the emergency approval EUA (Emergency Use Authorization).

The US health authority CDC has confirmed that children and adolescents develop Covid-19 in an extremely mild manner, if at all. Also, children and adolescents from the age of 12 cannot make the decision about an injection alone. Despite this, children are being targeted. The study showed that up to 80 percent of children develop side effects that can lead to severe trauma.

The new “factsheet” showed that the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccination was tested on 1097 children and adolescents from 12 to 15 years of age. At least 866 out of 1097 children developed some form of unpleasant side effect. In 466 the side effects were described as “mild”, in 393 they were “moderate” and in 7 they were described as “severe”.

The study was set up as a double-blind study, one in which neither the participants nor the experimenters know who is receiving a particular treatment. In addition to the 1127 children and adolescents injected with the first dose and 1097 with the second dose, 1127 and 1078 were injected with a saline solution as a placebo. The differences were remarkable: of the children vaccinated with the real vaccine, over five times as many complained of side effects within the first seven days.

In detail these were:

First vaccination
Fever over 38 degrees C (114)
Fatigue (677)
Headache (623)
Shivering (311)
Vomiting (31)
Diarrhea (90)
Muscle pain (272)
Joint pain (109)

Second vaccination
Fever over 38 degrees C (215)
Fatigue (726)
Headache (708)
Shivering (455)
Vomiting (29)
Diarrhea (65)
Muscle pain (355)
Joint pain (173)

Potentially fatal appendicitis is one of the potentially serious side effects that were seen more frequently in those injected with the product than in the comparison group.

The number of short-term serious side effects is given by Pfizer/BioNTech as 0,4 to 0,8 percent of those injected. Over the long term, these may increase. There are currently around 82 million people between the ages of 0 and 19 in the US. If all of these children and adolescents were to be vaccinated, between 330 000 to 660 000 recipients could be expected to have immediate severe side effects.

Nevertheless, the system media and health authorities are making children and their parents believe that they urgently need to be vaccinated with the experimental mRNA products.

[jaybee]

Posted by Old Student (here)
The mRNA vaccines are about 90% effective at both prevention and transmission.

This cannot be stated as (long term) fact because there are no long term studies...

Also let's not forget that re SARS-CoV-2 the death toll is exaggerated...
The PCR test case data can be manipulated to show anything statistically...
The small % of cases that lead to complications and death (mainly from the elderly and those with other underlying conditions) could have been drastically reduced with early intervention with drugs like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine -

In a nut shell...

The virus is not bad enough to warrant the draconian measures applied and the 'vaccination' of the world's population with an experimental injection...

so something else is going on here...

[mountain_jim]

As posted in memes thread by rgray222

[Tintin]

Posting this here as a reminder of what "herd immunity" actually is. It appears there's been some confusion in some quarters

-------

"The World Health Organization, for reasons unknown, has suddenly [November 2020] changed its definition of a core conception of immunology: herd immunity. Its discovery was one of the major achievements of 20th century science, gradually emerging in the 1920s and then becoming ever more refined throughout the 20th century.

Herd immunity is a fascinating observation that you can trace to biological reality or statistical probability theory, whichever you prefer. (It is certainly not a “strategy” so ignore any media source that describes it that way.) Herd immunity speaks directly, and with explanatory power, to the empirical observation that respiratory viruses are either widespread and mostly mild (common cold) or very severe and short-lived (SARS-CoV-1).

Why is this? The reason is that when a virus kills its host – that is, when a virus overtaxes the body’s ability to integrate it, its host dies and so the virus does not spread to others. The more this occurs, the less it spreads. If the virus doesn’t kill its host, it can hop to others through all the usual means. When you get a virus and fight it off, your immune system encodes that information in a way that builds immunity to it. When it happens to enough people (and each case is different so we can’t put a clear number on it, especially given so many cross immunities) the virus loses its pandemic quality and becomes endemic, which is to say predictable and manageable. Each new generation incorporates that information through more exposure.

This is what one would call Virology/Immunology 101. It’s what you read in every textbook. It’s been taught in 9th grade cell biology for probably 80 years. Observing the operations of this evolutionary phenomenon is pretty wonderful because it increases one’s respect for the way in which human biology has adapted to the presence of pathogens without absolutely freaking out.

And the discovery of this fascinating dynamic in cell biology is a major reason why public health became so smart in the 20th century. We kept calm. We managed viruses with medical professionals: doctor/patient relationships. We avoided the Medieval tendency to run around with hair on fire but rather used rationality and intelligence."

--------

Here's the WHO definition from June 2020:

https://web.archive.org/web/20201105...id-19-serology


Here's the WHO definition - the change in definition - from at least November 13 2020:

https://web.archive.org/web/20201124...id-19-serology

-----------

More from the article, here:

"In effect, this change at WHO ignores and even wipes out 100 years of medical advances in virology, immunology, and epidemiology. It is thoroughly unscientific – shilling for the vaccine industry in exactly the way the conspiracy theorists say that WHO has been doing since the beginning of this pandemic.

What’s even more strange is the claim that a vaccine protects people from a virus rather than exposing them to it. What’s amazing about this claim is that a vaccine works precisely by firing up the immune system through exposure. Why I had to type those words is truly beyond me. This has been known for centuries. There is simply no way for medical science completely to replace the human immune system. It can only game it via what used to be called inoculation."

------

Article source, here

-------

Vaccines and immunity appear to being conflated in the same way that weather and climate often are.

There's a bang-head-here sign around here somewhere; I'm going to go and get some more practice in.....................

[Sue (Ayt)]

Posted by Old Student (here)

There is some question on the accuracy of that number.

Between what? Johns Hopkins has 594K and Worldometer has 603K. That's an error bar of about 1.6%.

No. Between the mainstream stats you cite, and the methodology by which they were derived. Surely as a mathematician/statistician, you know that statistics can be skewed?

The spike protein attacks the ACE sites, I believe it was stated in the SALK studies, even sans the virus. Plus - there have been reports appearing of the same "long haul" effects for some folks after vaccination.

The first half of this statement is true. As for "reports" of people with long haul effects after vaccinations, please produce the results. There have been 150 million recovered from Covid, give or take any stats from countries that cannot presently count well (India, for example), and the estimate is of 1/3 have long haul symptoms. Show me where there are anywhere near even 100 people with Covid long haul symptoms from the vaccines. This is pure smoke.

Results of course, remain to be shown with time, but the “reports” from real people, are sprouting up daily, along with VAERS data. Many sufferers and their loved ones do not consider their situations to be “Pure Smoke”.

Old Student, I don't understand why you don't see the complications that you had following the vaccine as being a result of the vaccine? Apnea is a breathlessness, shortness of breath... Isn't that a common "spike protein" reaction whether from covid itself, or the vaccine? (I may have this wrong.)

Yup, you have this wrong. I'm not sure why anyone would even try to do that -- pretend to tell someone what they had instead of what they did have -- except for your need to try to prove harm from the vaccine.

I have a nervous system problem which causes the apnea. I maintain a very careful balance to avoid it, I have some exercises and meditations which stop it usually. I had a fever. That's a very common side effect after the second shot, and harmless (in my case no higher than probably 100 F) but it upset that balance. What should have been a routine side effect ended up taking days to undo. Apnea is not necessarily shortness of breath. Nor is shortness of breath necessarily apnea. Covid shortness of breath is caused by fluids and destruction of lung tissue, it is a pneumonia. I have a problem with "central" apnea -- apnea caused by the body just deciding not to bother breathing. Lungs perfectly clear, no congestion, no obstruction, just no breath without consciously making myself breathe.

Maybe this is the cause of all the scariness you see out there for the vaccine -- misinterpreting what people report as symptoms.

Which is why I noted I may have this wrong! I do not pretend to know your condition. I simply failed to see why you got the vax —> it caused a fever —> which flared your condition —> which took you days to undo, yet you maintain that the flare was NOT caused by the vax.
Hope your system is back in balance now.

I don't believe there is a vaccine for gonorrhea nor for malaria. Treatments go a long way in tackling disease, too. That research seems to be sadly lacking or deliberately squeelched with this disease. Why do you suppose that is happening?

Bingo! No vaccine for either. But if the statements by some on this thread were true, they should have naturally reached herd immunity. They never will. I did mention that I do math? Here's an interesting mathematical fact: If I take a hypothetical population of whom 50% have a gene that gives immunity to an always fatal disease, and 50% do not, and introduce that disease, what's your guess over generations? (Answer: The balance varies but never shifts towards immunity, the disease becomes endemic and never leaves the population). Proven by Bob May, 1984.

Herd immunity happens because of vaccines. There's no herd immunity to malaria in a refugee camp, for instance, or measles. Unless there are vaccinations for the latter, the diseases will devastate the populations, and continue to do so. In camps, the four biggest killers are measles, malaria, diarrhea, and respiratory disease. Measles was (until upended by the anti-vaxers) gone from the U.S. in herd immunity -- because of the vaccine. Now it's slightly less than gone. Measles has been with us since the dawn of time, if you have had it you have permanent immunity, and yet it requires a vaccine to achieve herd immunity. It's the statistics. To get it to die out, you need to permanently bring the rate of transmission down to rt<1. You can't do that with natural infections, except for an unsuccessful virus. Malaria, gonorrhea, measles, Covid, these are very successful viruses.

Why isn't there a vaccine for malaria? Oh, I don't know, probably because it mutates too fast, and they needed to develop better vaccine creating techniques. There's one in trials right now. Oh, and the guy who drummed up the funding (you wondered why, the why is lack of money and attention -- e.g. malaria doesn't flourish in temperate climates where the money is) is, you know, the anti-vaxer's bogeyman -- Bill Gates.

A huge cause of diseases running rampant are
1. improper nutrition
2. impoverished hygiene
3. crowded, unsanitary living conditions
4. lack of proper sewage disposal
5. impure drinking water
(and many others)

Many believe that diseases lose their high mortality rates once these things are properly tackled. Funding may be better spent in those other areas, with some types of diseases, than blindly chasing “herd immunity” for less lethal viruses which may fizzle out on their own. (like the 1918 pandemic apparently did.)

A quick scan of some work by Bob May who you cited left me unconvinced that he has "proven" anything about herd immunity, as he readily admits to a myriad of variables that can change with each specific disease, although he did appear to offer a valuable tool for calculation purposes. He also admits that the risks of vaccine damage can at times overtake the risks of the disease. (Interesting read, thank you.)

In the meantime, treatment approaches are crucial. (Antibiotics were a game changer!) Why are treatment approaches apparently being actively hushed?

Also - I have read nothing that guarantees herd immunity with this new mRNA vaccine for this disease yet. Much wishful thinking, planted by tptb in the minds of the public to make people assume this is the case, but still wishful thinking.

Whether or not the vaccine is mRNA has no bearing on herd immunity. The mRNA vaccines are about 90% effective at both prevention and transmission. We've had herd immunity to diseases with much less efficacious vaccines before. The problem is getting enough of the herd immunized. And that may not happen if enough idiots keep passing around "censored" stuff by people like Mercola. Did you know that the "censoring" being done is being done by the FDA? The same organization that all sorts of people say they won't take the vaccine until it fully approves it? The FDA issues him a cease and desist when he goes beyond what he's legally allowed to claim and he takes it down. And somebody else digs it out of cache, puts it on a non-US server and then the "community" circulates it as the rare secret censored truth. Don't they?

You people rant against big Pharma and all the profit they make talking people into taking drugs they don't need. Mercola makes about $2.9 million/month talking people into taking drugs he produces from soup to nuts. He isn't going to tell you to take something complicated like a monoclonal antibody for Covid, he sells vitamins and supplements. So miraculously, one of his vitamins becomes the cure-all for keeping people from getting Covid (he claimed such about Vitamin D). And when he pushes that stuff beyond a certain point, which he always does, the FDA tells him he's out over his Chiropractor skiis, and he politely takes it down knowing that thousands of "followers" will resurrect it and start passing it around and cha-ching he pulls in the next month's $2.9Mil.

I don't see that the efficacy rate can be fully known yet simply from the small and early trials, as this paper puts out, sorry.

Following Mercola’s health advice has served me well, Old Student. (btw, I suspect I may be older than you)
Censorship remains extremely troubling to me, as I respect the right to explore information that we choose, be it by "idiots", savants, or otherwise.

The medical system has attempted to talk me into drugs that I didn’t need, yes.
The medical system has also saved my husband’s life, and fixed my 2 broken bones, for which I am forever grateful!
The smallpox vaccine has served as a grand coup talking point for vaccines, yes, and it alone has been credited with full disease eradication, yes.

But I have learned to observe, research, and trust my own direct experience/evidence over the years, and also to examine each event/recommendation/person/challenge/etc. on its own individual merit.
(In other words, I am NOT a black or white, all or nothing, good or evil, thinker, despite your slotting me as such, ie “You People”)

I actually am quite pleased that my natural immune system has tackled measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox easily on its own. I believe that has ultimately made me stronger. Thus, I will continue to trust in my God-given immune system's ability to handle things in the case of this virus, at this time, unless I am given more evidence that logically would convince me to change my mind. I remain flexible and observant, which also serves me.
Thank you for this engaging discussion, and I have no problem with you reaching your own conclusions for your own personal decisions.
Sue (Ayt)

[Delight]

More coming to light everyday.

https://twitter.com/arkmedic/status/1398803725272043520

This leaked #Pfizer study from the EMA shows that the #vaccine particles are hugely sequestered into the ovaries.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Old Student (here)
I think that is permission to speak freely.

You have permission. Please speak to Karen. We're waiting.

We're still waiting.

[Old Student]

No. Between the mainstream stats you cite, and the methodology by which they were derived. Surely as a mathematician/statistician, you know that statistics can be skewed?

You allege it skewed, you show it skewed. Surely if you're facile with statistics enough to be trying to criticize my math, you know that? I don't provide proof of your criticisms of my numbers, you do. That's how it works. Show the bigger skew or drop the claim.

Results of course, remain to be shown with time, but the “reports” from real people, are sprouting up daily, along with VAERS data. Many sufferers and their loved ones do not consider their situations to be “Pure Smoke”.

So you're refuting what I said with "results remain to be shown with time"? No. Not scientific. Either show the results or drop the claim until you can. That's what the expression means. Making claims with no results or with a vague handwaving that there will be results on the Bobby Blue Bland schedule (Someday, Baby!) is smoke and mirrors, a.k.a. pure smoke.

Which is why I noted I may have this wrong! I do not pretend to know your condition. I simply failed to see why you got the vax —> it caused a fever —> which flared your condition —> which took you days to undo, yet you maintain that the flare was NOT caused by the vax.
Hope your system is back in balance now.

Right. Or maybe I didn't disclose every single detail, it being medical information, and it being my right not to. Or maybe I just forgot. I treated a guy for serious problems and took history on him twice, and a colleague took history once. It was only on the third person taking a history that he remembered to tell us that the reason he was in a wheelchair was he'd had a massive stroke. Or maybe a thousand other things.

Diagnosing people from afar like you're trying to do is beyond the scope of every medical license issued in the U.S., don't know about other places.

How I can say that is quite simple. Any other thing whatsoever that would cause a mild fever would have led to the same outcome. So the only thing attributable to the vaccine is that it caused a mild fever. What makes it so difficult for you is actually that you really want it to have been the vaccine. If people actually practiced medicine that way people would die.

A huge cause of diseases running rampant are
1. improper nutrition
2. impoverished hygiene
3. crowded, unsanitary living conditions
4. lack of proper sewage disposal
5. impure drinking water
(and many others)

Many believe that diseases lose their high mortality rates once these things are properly tackled. Funding may be better spent in those other areas, with some types of diseases, than blindly chasing “herd immunity” for less lethal viruses which may fizzle out on their own. (like the 1918 pandemic apparently did.)

In refugee camps, the reason for the mortality rates are that peoples' health is already stressed. They are, after all, refugee camps. But it makes no difference to the issue in question. If herd immunity were something that could be reached with no vaccines, then these diseases would not be around. But they are, and have been for millennia. What makes it different when there is a vaccine, is that the rate of transmission continues to stay too low for replacement even as the disease begins to die out. That's because people continue to acquire immunity to it without being infected. That can't happen without an artificial means of acquiring antibodies.

But you know your statistics, right? That's literally on page 10 or less of your average book on mathematical population or genetics. You bring the rate of successful transmission down low enough the disease dies out, its limiting outcome is population zero. If it's a natural system, once the incidence gets low, the number of immune in the population also begins to drop, and the disease merely becomes endemic.

A quick scan of some work by Bob May who you cited left me unconvinced that he has "proven" anything about herd immunity,

I cited quite a specific result, the result was as I described it, and I saw him present the paper in 1984 at the Chaos conference in Boston, Ma. Not too much for you to dispute there, sorry.

In the meantime, treatment approaches are crucial. (Antibiotics were a game changer!) Why are treatment approaches apparently being actively hushed?

They're not. The definitive treatment is monoclonal antibodies, it requires administration by transfusion which has to be done in the hospital, the view from 30,000 feet is that the Trump administration appeared to sort of keep these to themselves administering to themselves and their buddies and not generally making them available. They are available, they do have to be done in the hospital. There are no antibiotics for viruses, never have been.

I don't see that the efficacy rate can be fully known yet simply from the small and early trials, as this paper puts out, sorry.

Is this a joke? Of course there is evidence from more than small and early trials at this point. If there weren't, your friends on this thread wouldn't be acting like their in a discriminated minority for not getting vaccines. 40% or so of the American population has been vaccinated. So go for it. Look at the recidivism rate for people contracting the disease. It isn't zero, but it is pretty much as predicted, and that's about as large scale a test as you can possibly get. Citing small clinical trials when you have publicly registered outcomes is just either a joke or an obfuscation.

I actually am quite pleased that my natural immune system has tackled measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox easily on its own. I believe that has ultimately made me stronger. Thus, I will continue to trust in my God-given immune system's ability to handle things in the case of this virus,...

Then stay away from society, and visit a lawyer and get a DNR drawn up that we don't have to treat you when you get sick if you do. After all, you can make decisions about your own health, but it's a bit presumptuous of you to make them about the health of the EMS people who would take you to the hospital, all of the hospital staff that would treat you, and anybody else you infect because you pretended you have the "freedom" to decide that they should be at risk, without actually asking them.

[Delight]

Posted by Old Student (here)

I actually am quite pleased that my natural immune system has tackled measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox easily on its own. I believe that has ultimately made me stronger. Thus, I will continue to trust in my God-given immune system's ability to handle things in the case of this virus,...

Then stay away from society, and visit a lawyer and get a DNR drawn up that we don't have to treat you when you get sick if you do. After all, you can make decisions about your own health, but it's a bit presumptuous of you to make them about the health of the EMS people who would take you to the hospital, all of the hospital staff that would treat you, and anybody else you infect because you pretended you have the "freedom" to decide that they should be at risk, without actually asking them.

I was trained as an RN in 1976-1978. I was in an FNP program in 1986-1988 but ultimately only practiced about a year because of the major responsibility but no authority. The clap trap that this person believes about immunity is actually a germaphobe's paranoid ideation. I feel sorry for the person and horror at what he would do to others.

[iota]

Posted by Delight (here)
ON THE OTHER HAND, what if "Old Student" is one of those people being paid to Fight "disinformation". The INVERSION of this word's definition is "Disinformation is any information that may contradict the narrative being promoted". There are MILLIONS of dollars being paid to TROLLS who create "organic" opportunities such as joining a forum (a form of social media) and posting what one is told to be posting.

Social media is weaponized, public health is weaponized, MSM is weaponized, the GOVERNMENT is weaponized, SCIENCE and Medicine is weaponized.
The target is the future.

this is what i have personally suspected from very first encounter.

now here is some interesting information:

The INVENTOR of the mRNA vaccine
was suspended for telling the truth about the vaccine.

Think about that for a minute...

this was the LAST time the government told the WHOLE population to get vaccinated

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fhiyML3zwkk

[iota]

Posted by Karen (Geophyz) (here)

Posted by Old Student (here)
Wow. I try to use my ability to read carefully medical papers, and my ability to do statistics to engage in a discussion with you about what seems to me to be very loose and not carefully done gathering of facts,"these aren't called vaccines by the companies that make them," when in fact they are, and now I'm invested in some kind of plot?

The story you quoted, Delight, is from event medicine, which I did for 15 years. The other "investment" I have was that I was on my company's MERT (Medical Emergency Response Team) for several years -- and part of that time was during SARS, which maybe should now be called SARS-CoV-1 since we are on '2'. It was my task as the only research person on the MERT, to track all the information about the disease and keep people informed. My boss at that time took an unauthorized trip to visit his relatives about 1 mile from a major outbreak and did not report it. So I got to also learn something about non-compliance.

The difference between me and some other people when we all go read the SIREN study, is that if I don't know a particular term in epidemiology or research methods, I can go read the math, learn the technique, and then go back to the study and see what it says in detail. I can do that because I am "invested" in mathematics. My career (I'm retired) was as a research and development mathematician. I'm not the best at it but probably better than about 99% of the average room full of people.

And I can do some other things really well. Like track down a patent -- as I did when wondering claimed that the companies that make the mRNA vaccines don't call them vaccines. I have patents, and filing patents requires you to be able to track down other patents because you have to cite prior art.

As for my "investment" in the current vaccine, I believe people should get vaccinated, so we can put this disease in the past and move on. That is the only way that will happen. Otherwise, people will continue to sicken and die of this and the whole world will be constantly fighting off a disease we have in our power to end. And I know something about the history of public health, in particular, that governments can and do require people to follow public health measures and could if they want require people to be vaccinated.

My brother died from the "vaccine". He would have been better off to get Covid, the virus with a 99% survival rate. You are wrong.

Oh my God!!

my dearest Karen!!'

i AM SO VERY, DEEPLY sorry for your loss!

may comfort and peace surround you in a bubble of grace and bring as much healing as is possible!

i will write you now ...


i think this calls for a little sensitivity, consideration out of compassion and some respect OS