Avoiding the Experimental Vaccine

**helium** · 31st May 2021 04:28

Posted by Old Student (here)

OMG. I fear YOU, not the virus.
IMO you are a mind controled Manchurian Candidate. You would murder people in the name of Public Health.

Since you are accusing me of being a murderer, I think that is permission to speak freely.

I think you are spreading dangerous quack medicine to people who may just use that to make decisions that will cause them medical harm. So this person you think is a Manchurian Candidate capable of murder thinks you are practicing medicine without a license and medically negligent.

I was here for a civil discussion, I accept it that there are a lot of people, especially on this topic thread, who do not agree with my views. It's quite a different thing for a conspiracy propagator to tell me I commit murder.

Helium wishes to apologize, sir, for the direction this dialogue has taken. This is not a typical Avalon discussion.

The use of the term 'vaccine' is in fact correct in terms of your (Old Student's) usage. I can't recall the virologist I was listening to the other day who admitted that the term should not really be used for the mRNA vax, but that in a very loose sense the vax interacts with the immune system in such a fashion that it's similar enough to a classic vaccine to be included in the family. However it is *painfully* obvious that the use of the term is evidence of targeted social engineering aimed towards controlling the population. We're talking about semantics. That is the reason that so many here dislike the terminology and reject it. Whether they correctly reject the term or not.

I have a science and engineering background in medical device engineering as well as in psychology. I relate well to your perspective as a public health worker and/or official. I would love to see a vaccine that would eradicate covid-19 the same way that polio was eradicated. What all of us at Avalon would much prefer is a TESTED vaccine, not some experimental solution that's using basic genetic engineering that's questionable in itself.

There are a couple of elephants in the room. One is that if you were back in about March or April last year all you needed do is to follow MedCram for all of the science you require as a public health official to work with doctors to treat patients with inexpensive, safe, off-the-shelf medications and nutrient supplements. A vaccine may never be necessary if we have early treatment. Instead the drugs we needed were demonized and made illegal. And that does not stop - NAC has recently been taken away from the public by the FDA. It's been a safe nutritional supplement for a long time. Why require a prescription for it now?

The other elephant is obvious in the VAER's database. There is no precedent for the large numbers of serious adverse events associated with a new vaccine. If you might argue that the benefit of using this dangerous vaccine outweighs the risk, I can only point out the elephant above. We knew how to treat this virus last year and we were prevented from doing so by lawmakers and politicians. The real elephant in the room is that your precious experimental vaccine only gained it's experimental status by virtue of the fact that all of the current drugs that had proven to work were made inaccessible.

Look at the situation as we do. I for one have been following the covid thing before it had a name, before anyone outside of China knew it existed. I've watched every step of the way right up to the present. Early on I managed to purchase industrial grade N99 masks, FDA approved, that were rated for 12 hours use per day for 28 days. They used copper based elements to incapacitate viruses on contact. These masks were de-listed by the FDA a few days after I made my purchase. They cannot be sold in the US. Why ban the best mask on the market just prior to a pandemic?

I say that you just have to live this stuff to be able to wrap your head around the fact that the virus was released by someone on purpose and allowed to circulate. The vaccine is nothing but an extension of the operation. If you haven't lived through it to see the fake scientific papers in the world's most prestigious journals, or the mishandling of the very first known carrier of covid-19 in the US (I live near where he lives) then you've got some catching up to do. As far as public health agencies are concerned Washington State's has fouled it's reputation so badly that it should be gutted and rebuilt.

The Avalon forum is the one place where we can talk about these events and share information. Granted, some info shared via links in posts may not be the most informative. We tend to winnow the chaff. I never would have discovered that the virus was eventually going to arrive in the US earlier than most others if I weren't winnowing dark-web chaff. When it was obvious that I'd have to protect myself against the virus as well as from the stupidity of the CDC and our local public heath department my attention turned to the scientific literature. Others here on the forum have done that as well. We have to do our best to educate those who can't parse the scientific literature. That's part of our sharing.

We would all like to see our problems solved. The virus is the least of them. We all know that for the truth that it is.

It took a bio-weapon to bring about events that exposed the hands of those who bear us no good will whatsoever. They've revealed their cards, at least to some extent.

The success of a bio-weapon depends upon successfully controlling the antidote.

**Sue (Ayt)** · 31st May 2021 05:41

Posted by iota (here)

this was the LAST time the government told the WHOLE population to get vaccinated

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fhiyML3zwkk

A little anecdote here...
Back then, I was a young office worker and I commuted downtown by bus daily. The fear techniques were being advertised all over about this new swine flu, and the need for all to be vaxxed. Early on, after work one day, at the bus stop they had an outdoor table, consent forms, and nurses with needles, and everyone was strongly encouraged to line up for the shot while waiting for the bus, or even passer-bys. (the shot was free.)

Like the trusting naive fool that I was back then, I signed the form and offered up my arm.

I have never forgotten that farce - OMG - lining people up at the bus stop! I was fine, NOTHING ever came of that great pandemic, but I am not happy wondering what fine brew they injected me with back then.

**onawah** · 31st May 2021 05:54

Polio was never eradicated, it was simply renamed.
As someone who received the contaminated SV40 polio vaccine and had a nervous breakdown at 7 years of age as a result, I can testify that one doesn't need to have a degree in anything to know when one is being poisoned.
And I won't apologize for being honest.

Posted by helium (here)
I have a science and engineering background in medical device engineering as well as in psychology. I relate well to your perspective as a public health worker and/or official. I would love to see a vaccine that would eradicate covid-19 the same way that polio was eradicated.

**helium** · 31st May 2021 06:06

Posted by onawah (here)
Polio was never eradicated, it was simply renamed.
As someone who received the contaminated SV40 polio vaccine and had a nervous breakdown at 7 years of age as a result, I can testify that one doesn't need to have a degree in anything to know when one is being poisoned.
And I won't apologize for being honest.

Posted by helium (here)
I have a science and engineering background in medical device engineering as well as in psychology. I relate well to your perspective as a public health worker and/or official. I would love to see a vaccine that would eradicate covid-19 the same way that polio was eradicated.

Sigh. OK. I will apologize and admit that I hesitated over that particular analogy, knowing that it might sprout dissent. I gave it some thought and finally just went ahead and used it just to see how long it would take. My apology for playing games. I didn't 'spect such a huge red reply though.

**iota** · 31st May 2021 16:48

Posted by helium (here)

Sigh. OK. I will apologize and admit that I hesitated over that particular analogy, knowing that it might sprout dissent. I gave it some thought and finally just went ahead and used it just to see how long it would take. My apology for playing games. I didn't 'spect such a huge red reply though.

Helium

i don't know you yet, just have seen like two of your posts .. but in BOTH you were being completely authentic! and i just want to say i that is a characteristic i completely respect and appreciate in some one!

we are all human and not a single one of us is anywhere near perfection

i think your choice to follow the path of authenticity is a pretty awesome one though ...

again, haven't read much ... but two apologies??

kudos my friend! kudos!

only the strong are able to fess up to their mistakes!!

**onawah** · 31st May 2021 19:37

I would avoid playing such "games" here, particularly when it involves a subject as sensitive as vaccines, if I were you, Helium.
I see you've been on the forum since 2020, but for some of us who have been here compiling the evidence about vaccines for a lot of years, the truth is not only abundant, but abundantly clear, even if all we could do at first was connect the dots.
That's no longer the case, as anyone can see by browsing through the long, long list of threads on vaccines in general, and COVID in particular, regarding how far we've come in terms of expert testimony.
But if you were trying to call me out (as someone who would certainly respond when it comes to the polio vaccine tragedy) you certainly succeeded.

Posted by helium (here)

Sigh. OK. I will apologize and admit that I hesitated over that particular analogy, knowing that it might sprout dissent. I gave it some thought and finally just went ahead and used it just to see how long it would take. My apology for playing games. I didn't 'spect such a huge red reply though.

**Delight** · 31st May 2021 21:08

To the extent that Natural Immunity has been canceled, this "Biggest Failure" will be declared misinformation.

CORONAVIRUSJohns Hopkins Prof: Half Of Americans Have Natural Immunity; Dismissing It Is ‘Biggest failure Of Medical Leadership’

“Please, ignore the CDC guidance”

A professor with the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine has said that there is a general dismissal of the fact that more than half of all Americans have developed natural immunity to the coronavirus and that it constitutes “one of the biggest failures of our current medical leadership.”

Dr. Marty Makary made the comments during a recent interview, noting that “natural immunity works” and it is wrong to vilify those who don’t want the vaccine because they have already recovered from the virus.

Makary criticised “the most slow, reactionary, political CDC in American history” for not clearly communicating the scientific facts about natural immunity compared to the kind of immunity developed through vaccines.

“There is more data on natural immunity than there is on vaccinated immunity, because natural immunity has been around longer,” Makary emphasised.

“We are not seeing reinfections, and when they do happen, they’re rare. Their symptoms are mild or are asymptomatic,” the professor added.

“Please, ignore the CDC guidance,” he urged, adding “Live a normal life, unless you are unvaccinated and did not have the infection, in which case you need to be careful.”

“We’ve got to start respecting people who choose not to get the vaccine instead of demonizing them,” Makary further asserted.continue here

**helium** · 31st May 2021 21:18

Posted by iota (here)

Posted by helium (here)

Sigh. OK. I will apologize and admit that I hesitated over that particular analogy, knowing that it might sprout dissent. I gave it some thought and finally just went ahead and used it just to see how long it would take. My apology for playing games. I didn't 'spect such a huge red reply though.

Helium

i don't know you yet, just have seen like two of your posts .. but in BOTH you were being completely authentic! and i just want to say i that is a characteristic i completely respect and appreciate in some one!

we are all human and not a single one of us is anywhere near perfection

i think your choice to follow the path of authenticity is a pretty awesome one though ...

again, haven't read much ... but two apologies??

kudos my friend! kudos!

only the strong are able to fess up to their mistakes!!

Mistakes? Not sure what you mean. I decided to try to apologize for the out of control accusations flying around Old Student's posts. I DECIDED to do that, knowing that most likely I'd fail and create even greater controversy. Same with sitting here wondering how long it would take for a response from someone calling me out on the polio vax thing. I DECIDED to use the widely accepted simplistic belief that Jonas Salk was a hero who eradicated polio as an example. Within the context that I used that fallacy I did manage to state what was necessary. I left a nice fat opening for Old Student to come back to me.

Far as I'm concerned there should be more games going on here. Genuine dialogue is too rare. How do you pull others into a deeper, more genuine dialogue that's hopefully based upon their experience and not on some David Icke thing or some iffy bitchute video? I don't know. But I'd certainly like to see more opinions shared in member's own words, crafted however they feel they need to craft those words to put a point across - while sharing something of their lives. Maybe we need to live up to the image that we like to project of how tolerant the Avalon forum is. Dialogue isn't about always being right.

Go here for an example of what mean:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1353168

Everyone's posts are easily searched out. One way to get to know other members is to search out their posts to become familiar with their style, their thoughts. I'm a devious bassterd - I do just that - whether I post anything during any particular year or not.

**iota** · 31st May 2021 21:23

[QUOTE=helium;1431428][QUOTE=iota;1431383]

Posted by helium (here)

Mistakes? Not sure what you mean. I decided to try to apologize for the out of control accusations flying around Old Student's posts. I DECIDED to do that, knowing that most likely I'd fail and create even greater controversy. Same with sitting here wondering how long it would take for a response from someone calling me out on the polio vax thing. I DECIDED to use the widely accepted simplistic belief that Jonas Salk was a hero who eradicated polio as an example. Within the context that I used that fallacy I did manage to state what was necessary. I left a nice fat opening for Old Student to come back to me.

Far as I'm concerned there should be more games going on here. Genuine dialogue is too rare. How do you pull others into a deeper, more genuine dialogue that's hopefully based upon their experience and not on some David Icke thing or some iffy bitchute video? I don't know. But I'd certainly like to see more opinions shared in member's own words, crafted however they feel they need to craft those words to put a point across - while sharing something of their lives. Maybe we need to live up to the image that we like to project of how tolerant the Avalon forum is. Dialogue isn't about always being right.

Go here for an example of what mean:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1353168

Everyone's posts are easily searched out. One way to get to know other members is to search out their posts to become familiar with their style, their thoughts. I'm a devious bassterd - I do just that - whether I post anything during any particular year or not.

then the mistake was mine in my assessment of you

i apologize

you can be certain i will not make that mistake again

thanks for clarifying you see us as nothing but pawns to "play", manipulate and antagonize

an honest to God self declared PROVOCATEUR ...

ok ..i have dealt with your kind often, even here ...

as stated, i won't make this mistake twice

not often Bill issues warnings btw

two of those who thanked you didn't quite grasp your stated intent to provoke and antagonize ...

**Bill Ryan** · 31st May 2021 21:25

Posted by helium (here)
I'm a devious bassterd - I do just that - whether I post anything during any particular year or not.

Well, be careful!!

Avalon members have lost friends and family to the shots (they died, and in some cases what happened was really awful) and have also reported many injuries. Even in this tiny community, the numbers are telling a story. So sensitivities on the forum are running quite high, with good reason.

That's why there's so much anger against Old Student, who has yet to reply to Karen (Geophyz), whose brother Marty died and her best friend Cindy was injured. I'm guessing he has no clue how to say: "Hey, I'm truly sorry that happened."

That says a very great deal about him. One can sometimes have a high intellect — but low intelligence and awareness, and zero heart.

**Delight** · 31st May 2021 21:38

Posted by helium (here)
I decided to try to apologize for the out of control accusations flying around Old Student's posts. I DECIDED to do that, knowing that most likely I'd fail and create even greater controversy. Same with sitting here wondering how long it would take for a response from someone calling me out on the polio vax thing. I DECIDED to use the widely accepted simplistic belief that Jonas Salk was a hero who eradicated polio as an example. Within the context that I used that fallacy I did manage to state what was necessary. I left a nice fat opening for Old Student to come back to me.

Far as I'm concerned there should be more games going on here. Genuine dialogue is too rare. How do you pull others into a deeper, more genuine dialogue that's hopefully based upon their experience and not on some David Icke thing or some iffy bitchute video? I don't know. But I'd certainly like to see more opinions shared in member's own words, crafted however they feel they need to craft those words to put a point across - while sharing something of their lives. Maybe we need to live up to the image that we like to project of how tolerant the Avalon forum is. Dialogue isn't about always being right.

What is the point of your game?

Dialogue in the context of the jab is IMO about being "correct" in terms of evidence.

I feel really tired about all this parsing of truth... you seem to be stating that opinions are all that count. Anyway, I wish everyone the best concerning the bottleneck that seems to be forming. It reminds me of the story (said to be true) that at one point, humanity reduced to almost zero people and was restarted with one Mother. All our mitochondria said to derive form that Eve. It makes me think, maybe there was an off world intervention and cloning? Surely could be so.

To play checkers with those who are IMO advancing a cause I personally despise is no fun.

**helium** · 31st May 2021 21:44

Posted by Delight (here)
To the extent that Natural Immunity has been canceled, this "Biggest Failure" will be declared misinformation.

CORONAVIRUSJohns Hopkins Prof: Half Of Americans Have Natural Immunity; Dismissing It Is ‘Biggest failure Of Medical Leadership’

“Please, ignore the CDC guidance”

A professor with the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine has said that there is a general dismissal of the fact that more than half of all Americans have developed natural immunity to the coronavirus and that it constitutes “one of the biggest failures of our current medical leadership.”

Dr. Marty Makary made the comments during a recent interview, noting that “natural immunity works” and it is wrong to vilify those who don’t want the vaccine because they have already recovered from the virus.

Makary criticised “the most slow, reactionary, political CDC in American history” for not clearly communicating the scientific facts about natural immunity compared to the kind of immunity developed through vaccines.

“There is more data on natural immunity than there is on vaccinated immunity, because natural immunity has been around longer,” Makary emphasised.

“We are not seeing reinfections, and when they do happen, they’re rare. Their symptoms are mild or are asymptomatic,” the professor added.

“Please, ignore the CDC guidance,” he urged, adding “Live a normal life, unless you are unvaccinated and did not have the infection, in which case you need to be careful.”

“We’ve got to start respecting people who choose not to get the vaccine instead of demonizing them,” Makary further asserted.continue here

Precisely - the elephant in the room demands to be seen and heard. The vaxx would never have been marketed as experimental if already existing medications had not been rendered illegitimate. Early treatment with those existing meds would likely have resulted in most of us developing natural antibodies faster and with less suffering and death. That can still be done. Although there may be some regions where using standard meds will be more acceptable than in others. I live in a very dangerous place where the vaxx uptake is far too high, where resistance to the vaxx could prove to be futile.

**helium** · 31st May 2021 22:44

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by helium (here)
I'm a devious bassterd - I do just that - whether I post anything during any particular year or not.

Well, be careful!!

Avalon members have lost friends and family to the shots (they died, and in some cases what happened was really awful) and have also reported many injuries. Even in this tiny community, the numbers are telling a story. So sensitivities on the forum are running quite high, with good reason.

That's why there's so much anger against Old Student, who has yet to reply to Karen (Geophyz), whose brother Marty died and her best friend Cindy was injured. I'm guessing he has no clue how to say: "Hey, I'm truly sorry that happened."

That says a very great deal about him. One can sometimes have a high intellect — but low intelligence and awareness, and zero heart.

Wait a minute. Am I to be cautious when I search out and read members posts so that I can get to know them better? That's what I said I was doing as a 'devious bassterd.' This is all about heart. Until it isn't, anymore. I can't make a tongue in cheek reference to myself as devious without attracting bile?

OK, I get it. There are raw nerves here. Better to go elsewhere to talk about 'deeper dialogue.' Point is, I took on both sides of the Old Student tangles and I thought I presented a good case in favor of those who resisted his presentation, while providing a path for him to respond. And yes, I knew that would create a mess. Unless maybe it didn't.

Maybe everyone just needs a new focus for their angst. Maybe I can be that focus. Then maybe everyone including Old Student can take another look at what's been said and discover that both sides have valid points. Perhaps what this forum needs is more members like Old Student. Everyone needs to grow up. Meanwhile, attack helium so that a new perspective can be gained regarding the arguments above. I'm your target now. Give Old Student a break and see if he wants to be a part of the ongoing discussion. Something with *heart* may come of it. Hopefully.

I'd say that this discussion is very much on topic. If this thread and the controversy within it were something being discussed on a larger, perhaps global scale, working through differences in opinion and misconceptions of what's fact could turn the tide as far as saving lives and reducing suffering.

Ya, I know. I'm a bleeding heart utopian optimist - a dreamer. That's what I do. I dream. Started at a young age, I did.

**iota** · 31st May 2021 23:36

Posted by helium (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by helium (here)
I'm a devious bassterd - I do just that - whether I post anything during any particular year or not.

Well, be careful!!

Avalon members have lost friends and family to the shots (they died, and in some cases what happened was really awful) and have also reported many injuries. Even in this tiny community, the numbers are telling a story. So sensitivities on the forum are running quite high, with good reason.

That's why there's so much anger against Old Student, who has yet to reply to Karen (Geophyz), whose brother Marty died and her best friend Cindy was injured. I'm guessing he has no clue how to say: "Hey, I'm truly sorry that happened."

That says a very great deal about him. One can sometimes have a high intellect — but low intelligence and awareness, and zero heart.

Wait a minute. Am I to be cautious

And yes, I knew that would create a mess.

ABSOLUTELY

NEVER again be confused on this point

i don't understand your feigning ignorance now ...

it is INHERENT in the "KNOWING" you were "CREATING A MESS"

you ALSO should be when you state:

Posted by helium (here)

I decided to try to apologize for the out of control accusations flying around Old Student's posts. I DECIDED to do that, knowing that most likely I'd fail and create even greater controversy.

THAT is LYING for the explicit purpose of CAUSING controversy

like a puppet master engineering results ..

those of chaos, division and strife

your amusement at OUR expense i don't find amusing

Posted by helium (here)

Same with sitting here wondering how long it would take for a response from someone calling me out on the polio vax thing.

AND you BAITED

sitting there WAITING ~ EXPECTING ~ INVITING

to be CALLED OUT

well I AM

and you should know that when you put out an invitation from a sordid place of darkness?

there is LIKELY to BE a response

i don't care how you want to spin or use gaslighting

it takes a special kind of depraved reasoning to actually PLOT to instigate

and you don't get to call it otherwise

you are also a LIAR ~ intentionally BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION

you KNEW the information to be different and yet INTENTIONALLY set a trap for others to fall into through response

do we look like toys for your amusement?

is this how you treat people in your life?

NO ONE likes to be toyed with, lied to, find out they were only responding to BAIT

the type of mind that conceives this should be prepared for a fall out from it

and you were

you stated .. you were waiting

Posted by helium (here)

I DECIDED to use the widely accepted simplistic belief that Jonas Salk was a hero who eradicated polio as an example. Within the context that I used that fallacy I did manage to state what was necessary. I left a nice fat opening for Old Student to come back to me.

are you expecting some sort of congratulations for being "clever" in leaving just enough "clues" to LURE people to a confrontation?

division
strife

ALL goals of a provocateur

we don't like being provoked

and you have a special kind of depraved audacity to state in detail your plans

NOT brilliant .. warped perhaps .. and NOT even an "interesting" use for your time and energy ... just sad .. and a little pathetic

Posted by helium (here)
Far as I'm concerned there should be more games going on here

i DIFFER in that opinion

i don't know of anyone else playing "games" here

most are interested in genuine dialogue

with someone who is speaking honestly, not hatching deception and laying out "clues" so people will FALL right into their intended confrontation

and you chose the wrong topic for your depravity ..

people's lives are in the balance

people loved and respected here have experienced loss

how dare you plot, scheme, bait for your amusement

because YOU think "There should be more games" here?

WE ARE NOT CHILDREN ~ NOR ARE WE PLAYING GAMES

go do that elsewhere

this is a topic that deals with people's lives, the lives of people they love, the freedom of this country and actually the freedom of the world!

it is DECIDEDLY NOT fodder for "games"

and i'd say at least you summarized it accurately .. in the end

Posted by helium (here)
I'm a devious bassterd

is about the only thing i can agree you were honest about

**onawah** · 31st May 2021 23:59

Iota, if you had any further doubts about Helium's view of Avalon, see: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1431447
...which may sum it up...
Helium: "I'd like to know how many others in this community react to the blatant propaganda spread by that newspaper in the same way I do. I seriously doubt there are many at all. This is a pretty place, but also a wasteland."

**helium** · 1st June 2021 00:02

Posted by iota (here)

Posted by helium (here)

Wait a minute. Am I to be cautious

And yes, I knew that would create a mess.