WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

[mountain_jim]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Mod note from Bill:

Friends, as best I can see we may be drifting slightly off-topic here in one or two of the shared posts.

For me (and for hundreds of members and guests looking for good information), the thread is extremely valuable as

• A source of updates of the complicated and sometimes unclear situation on the ground;
• Analysis of the possible outcomes (and current responses and effects) of the conflict geopolitically and economically;
• Analysis and historical detail of the roots and causes of the current situation.

That's pretty all-encompassing (and sometimes fast-moving!), but I'd suggest it may be useful for us all not to dilute discussion of the above issues too much.

My post yesterday was accidentally posted in this thread - I just discovered the error after thinking the post must have been lost.

a mod delete of this post from this thread would be appreciated. (I did clean it out)

From Bill:
Many thanks, and deleted as requested
(I'll also delete this post a little later on)

[Bill Ryan]

A straight-and-sober, wide-ranging update from Zero Hedge, with their usual focus on issues that may affect financial markets.

• https://zerohedge.com/military/here-...e-war-march-23

Here Are All The Latest News And Developments From The Ukraine War: March 23

With newsflow out of Ukraine nothing less than a firehose (of often fake news), with market moving headlines firing every minute, traders can be forgiven if they have just given up following the narrative. To help out, here is a snapshot of all the latest market-moving news out of Ukraine from the last few hours courtesy of Bloomberg and Newsquawk.

Highlights

• Biden sees a “real risk” that Putin will deploy chemical weapons in Ukraine, in comments made while he was leaving the White House for Europe. Biden will join back-to-back summits Thursday with NATO, the Group of Seven and the European Union in Brussels, in an attempt to rally allies and partners behind his administration’s tough approach to Russia and to signal a united front to China.
• Russian climate envoy Anatoly Chubais resigned and left the country, citing his opposition to President Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine, according to two people familiar with the situation. Chubais, known as the architect of Russia’s 1990s privatizations, is the highest-level official to break with the Kremlin over the invasion. Chubais also gave Putin his first Kremlin job in the mid-1990s and initially welcomed his rise to power at the end of that decade.
• Poland joined the wave of eastern European Union countries expelling Russian diplomats, and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Russia is only beginning to feel the harshest effects from sanctions. He added that more measures are on the way, even as his government dug in against a proposal to ban Russian energy imports.
• Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy will take part via video link in this week’s special NATO summit to discuss the war. Biden, who’s traveling to Europe for meetings on Thursday, said further penalties will be announced during his trip.

Discussions/Negotiations

• Ukrainian President Zelensky said talks with Russia are difficult and sometimes confrontational, while he also commented that 100k people are living in Mariupol under inhumane conditions without food, water or medicine.
• Governor of Luhansk, Ukraine says a local ceasefire has been agreed to evacuate civilians from some towns; Ukrainian Deputy PM says nine humanitarian corridors have been agreed for Wednesday.
• Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov says that NATO's eastward expansion continues irrespective of whether a particular nation is a member, via Sky News Arabia; adding that Russia has warned that its interest will be at stake if Ukraine joins the EU but Russia has not been listened to.
• Russian ambassador has been summoned to the Polish Foreign Ministry with circa 40 Russian diplomats set to be expelled from Poland, according to PAP sources; in response, the Russian Foreign Ministry says it will retaliate to Poland if it expels Russian diplomats.
• Russian Kremlin says the military operation within Ukraine is going according to plan, any possible contact of Russian forces with NATO's could cause consequences that would be hard to correct.

Energy/Economic Updates

• US President Biden is to announce sanctions on more than 300 members of Russia's lower chamber of parliament as soon as Thursday, according to WSJ citing administration officials.
• US Senators are to discuss freezing Russian gold assets with US Treasury Secretary Yellen, according to Axios.
• EU Ambassadors latest draft text, for discussion on Wednesday, calls for the Commission to unveil proposals by end-May on reducing Europe's "dependency on Russian gas, oil and coal imports", via Politico. Click here for more detail.
• Russian Deputy PM Novak says they are in talks with Asian partners regarding increasing oil exports if required.
• Russian National Settlement Depositary says Russian holders of domestic corporate Eurobonds could experience delays in receiving payments, may be caused by the requirement to seek clarification from European regulators.

Defense/Military

• UK Ministry of Defence said the Ukrainian civilian population in Russian-occupied cities continue to protest against Russian control, while Russia's efforts to subdue population have failed and it will probably employ increasingly violent and coercive measures.
• Ukraine President Zelenskiy says that Russian forces are utilising the exclusion zone in Chernobyl to prepare fresh attacks.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
https://twitter.com/TheGrayzoneNews/...86846045437956

Here's the YouTube stream, live in 3 hours. Scott Ritter (former UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq, who consistently stated at the time that there were no WMDs there) understands exactly what's going on, and is unlikely to mince his words.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OSkpIq3T-Zc

[ExomatrixTV]

quote:

"When you write Pray for Ukraine on the internet you are in fact inviting us to pray for this. This is the Ukraine that Donbass has been fighting since 2014. years. This is Ukraine that has been since 2014. years to date she has killed over 15,000 Russian civilians. This is Ukraine that burned alive Russians. This is Ukraine of the Neo-Nazist Squad "Azov" whose members were during 2014. years in Odessa, a solider with over 80 Russians burned alive in flames. This is Ukraine that covered Kiev with graffiti "Death to the Moskalis". This is Ukraine against which Russia launched an invasion.

Tell me, are you suffering from cognitive dysfunction or are you just hypocritical when you don't want to see that there have been serious neo-Nazis formations and structures in Ukraine for ten years, supported by the American agenda and armed by the NATO arsenal?

Who should we pray for? For neo-Nazis in the photo or for the army that comes to erase them from the face of the Earth? For the "Azov" squad or for the Russian army?

Liberals, multiculturalists, "green", pacifists and feminists - you have entered the letters of shame in history. All your life you talk about antifascism and fight imaginary battles against fictional nazism, but when Russia for the second time in history started a real war against the first nazism you shamelessly stood on the side of nazism, and against Russia".

unquote

• source

[Gwin Ru]

Ukranian Illegal Prison Torture Camp Exposed After 8 Years (CIA Operated) 14:51

• Watch

First published at 03:27 UTC on March 23rd, 2022.

• #ukraine
• #russia
• #cia

Plazma
Plazma

I can see why RT got removed from the West...I dont think they want this getting out.

After 8 years of operation, the camp run by neo-nazi battalion "Aidar" has been exposed for the world to see. Ukraine is not the bastion of democracy that propaganda wishes to claim. Support by the National Endowment for Democracy as well as Lithuanian, Canadian, and British Armed Forces is alleged in the video as well.

Source: https://www.bitchute.com/video/N9HiDGznwu2v

[Gwin Ru]

...

... The USA is Committing Suicide

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Gonzalo Lira
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https://twitter.com/realgonzalolira/
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Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eVbVwFPgSk4

[Snoweagle]

Putin orders the execution of captured Bio-Engineers by beheading with a saw.

https://realrawnews.com/2022/03/putin-beheads-bioweapon-engineers-in-ukraine

Mod note from Bill:
realrawnews is a satirical site.
Not to be taken seriously. (At all!)

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
...

... The USA is Committing Suicide

5,655 watching now
Started streaming 16 minutes ago

Gonzalo Lira
116K subscribers

https://t.me/realCRP
https://twitter.com/realgonzalolira/
Join me on Patreon for exclusive content: https://www.patreon.com/CoachRedPill

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eVbVwFPgSk4

The stream was cut off after half an hour. This is the continuation, another 90 minutes of arguably very sharp analysis.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=16C4CTZNKQc

[Johnnycomelately]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)


Here's the YouTube stream, live in 3 hours. Scott Ritter (former UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq, who consistently stated at the time that there were no WMDs there) understands exactly what's going on, and is unlikely to mince his words.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OSkpIq3T-Zc

Thanks for this, Ravenlocke and Bill. Caught it at the start and watched it all (minus a few minutes when it dropped/auto-refreshed). Best 2 3/4 hours I’ve spent in a while. Am now subbed to The Grayzone chan.

[Michel Leclerc]

Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
quote:

"When you write Pray for Ukraine on the internet you are in fact inviting us to pray for this. This is the Ukraine that Donbass has been fighting since 2014. years. This is Ukraine that has been since 2014. years to date she has killed over 15,000 Russian civilians. This is Ukraine that burned alive Russians. This is Ukraine of the Neo-Nazist Squad "Azov" whose members were during 2014. years in Odessa, a solider with over 80 Russians burned alive in flames. This is Ukraine that covered Kiev with graffiti "Death to the Moskalis". This is Ukraine against which Russia launched an invasion.

Tell me, are you suffering from cognitive dysfunction or are you just hypocritical when you don't want to see that there have been serious neo-Nazis formations and structures in Ukraine for ten years, supported by the American agenda and armed by the NATO arsenal?

Who should we pray for? For neo-Nazis in the photo or for the army that comes to erase them from the face of the Earth? For the "Azov" squad or for the Russian army?

Liberals, multiculturalists, "green", pacifists and feminists - you have entered the letters of shame in history. All your life you talk about antifascism and fight imaginary battles against fictional nazism, but when Russia for the second time in history started a real war against the first nazism you shamelessly stood on the side of nazism, and against Russia".

unquote

• source

Exactly.

I would like to add this. Any form of "prayer" that is made by a person who has not cleaned his/her conscience first, and as a consequence cannot identify with sincerity the person she/he wishes to help with his/her prayer, is black magic.

Such forms of so-called "prayer" inherently condition the help requested from the Divine by a (tacit or expressed) request for the Divine to inflict harm to another, opposing, party. (Which the above quote is referring to.) As that is impossible because the Divine cannot yield to black magic, the request to do harm is bound to backfire karmically on the "praying" person.

The very fact that the nations where people are asked for such "prayer" pride themselves on their being so "deeply religious" shows the opposite – or shows that their nature is deeply demonic.

[Spiral]

Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)

Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
quote:

"When you write Pray for Ukraine on the internet you are in fact inviting us to pray for this. This is the Ukraine that Donbass has been fighting since 2014. years. This is Ukraine that has been since 2014. years to date she has killed over 15,000 Russian civilians. This is Ukraine that burned alive Russians. This is Ukraine of the Neo-Nazist Squad "Azov" whose members were during 2014. years in Odessa, a solider with over 80 Russians burned alive in flames. This is Ukraine that covered Kiev with graffiti "Death to the Moskalis". This is Ukraine against which Russia launched an invasion.

Tell me, are you suffering from cognitive dysfunction or are you just hypocritical when you don't want to see that there have been serious neo-Nazis formations and structures in Ukraine for ten years, supported by the American agenda and armed by the NATO arsenal?

Who should we pray for? For neo-Nazis in the photo or for the army that comes to erase them from the face of the Earth? For the "Azov" squad or for the Russian army?

Liberals, multiculturalists, "green", pacifists and feminists - you have entered the letters of shame in history. All your life you talk about antifascism and fight imaginary battles against fictional nazism, but when Russia for the second time in history started a real war against the first nazism you shamelessly stood on the side of nazism, and against Russia".

unquote

• source

Exactly.

I would like to add this. Any form of "prayer" that is made by a person who has not cleaned his/her conscience first, and as a consequence cannot identify with sincerity the person she/he wishes to help with his/her prayer, is black magic.

Such forms of so-called "prayer" inherently condition the help requested from the Divine by a (tacit or expressed) request for the Divine to inflict harm to another, opposing, party. (Which the above quote is referring to.) As that is impossible because the Divine cannot yield to black magic, the request to do harm is bound to backfire karmically on the "praying" person.

The very fact that the nations where people are asked for such "prayer" pride themselves on their being so "deeply religious" shows the opposite – or shows that their nature is deeply demonic.

I have to completely disagree with this.

Prayer in the Christian sense involves the will of God & the submission to the will of God, it's not paganism where you demand an outcome & make a sacrifice.

Prayer to God is an appeal to his mercy, that he make the conflict as short as possible, with as little suffering as possible with the most just out come that only He can know, not us with out deeply subjective view.

In short any prayer has to be with the Will of God, otherwise it's self condamnation.

[Vicus]

[Tintin]

An historic report produced by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch in July 2016. Although the Russia-backed separatists are not entirely innocent of wrong-doing any perceived 'abuses' appear to pale into comparable insignificance compared with the Ukrainian authorities' activities.

This 65 page report is too large to embed here, but can be accessed through this link: https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/fi...e0716web_2.pdf

[extracted from the report]

Methodology

This report is based on the findings of joint research by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, which included a one-week joint mission to separatist-controlled areas of Donetsk region in May 2016, two missions to government-controlled areas of Donetsk region in February and March 2016, as well as extensive desk research and interviews conducted in person in Kyiv or by phone and Skype.

Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch conducted a total of 40 interviews with victims of abuses, their family members, witnesses of abuses, victims’ lawyers, representatives of international organizations working in eastern Ukraine, Ukrainian government officials, representatives of the DNR, representatives of unofficial and official groups that are engaged in the negotiation of prisoner exchanges, and other sources.

Violations by the Ukrainian authorities
In most of the nine cases Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch investigated, pro-government forces, including members of so-called volunteer battalions, initially detained the individuals and then handed them over to the Security Service of Ukraine, (SBU), who eventually moved them into the regular criminal justice system. Some were later exchanged for persons held by separatists and others released without trial.

In three cases detailed in this report the SBU allegedly continued the enforced disappearances, keeping the individuals in unacknowledged detention for periods ranging from six weeks to 15 months. One individual was exchanged, the other two simply released without trial. With regard to two of the individuals, there is no record whatsoever of their detention. The June 2016 UN report noted that the cases of incommunicado detention and torture brought to their attention in late 2015 and early 2016 “mostly implicate SBU” and specifically mentioned the SBU compound in Kharkiv as an alleged place of unofficial detention.

Based on the research findings detailed in this report, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch believe unlawful, unacknowledged detentions have taken place in SBU premises in Kharkiv, Kramatorsk, Izyum, and Mariupol. We received compelling testimony from a range of sources, including recently released detainees, that as of June 2016 as many as 16 people remain in secret detention at the SBU premises in Kharkiv.

Ukrainian authorities have denied operating any other detention facilities than their only official temporary detention center in Kyiv and denied having any information regarding the alleged abuses by SBU documented in this report. Most interviewees told Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch they were tortured before their transfer to SBU’s facilities. Several also alleged that after being transferred to SBU premises they were, variously, beaten, subjected to electric shocks, and threatened with rape, execution, and retaliation against family members, in order to induce them to confess to involvement with separatism-related criminal activities or to provide information.

-----------------

(from page 25)
Enforced Disappearances, Arbitrary Detentions, and Torture by Members of the
Ukrainian Authorities and Paramilitaries

Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch investigated nine cases in which members of the Ukrainian authorities and paramilitaries held civilians in prolonged, secret captivity. Three of these—the most recent and egregious—are detailed below. Details of two others are withheld at the request of the victims, who fear retaliation. The remaining four are not detailed here as they pertain to arbitrary detentions that concluded prior to spring 2015.

-----------------

Here is an extract from one of the stories documented which starts at page 28:

Kostyantyn Beskorovaynyi (locations of detention: Kramatorsk, Izyum, Kharkiv)

Kostyantyn Beskorovaynyi, 59 at time of writing, was an active member of the Communist Party of Ukraine (CPU) and an elected member of the local council in his hometown of Kostyantynivka, where he also worked as a dentist. Kostyantynivka had been under separatist control for several weeks in 2014 until it was retaken by the Ukrainian forces in July 2014. Beskorovaynyi was the victim of an enforced disappearance, spending 15 months in unacknowledged and unlawful SBU detention in Kramatorsk, Izyum, and Kharkiv, most of it in the Kharkiv SBU building.

Abduction and transfer to Kramatorsk SBU compound According to Beskorovaynyi, at about 4 p.m. on November 27, 2014, masked men broke into his apartment, violently seized him, and searched his home with no warrant, claiming they had evidence that he planned to poison the local water supply:

"Five or six masked men, one of them armed with an AK-47 automatic rifle, broke my door with a sledgehammer and threw me to the ground. They didn’t introduce themselves but accused me of being a terrorist and a separatist. One of them held me down with his foot and occasionally kicked me in the ribcage while the others searched my apartment…"

The search completed, they forced Beskorovaynyi into a van with no license plates and tinted windows. Inside, they handcuffed Beskorovaynyi and pulled a bag over his head. After a relatively short drive, they led Beskorovaynyi into a basement. There, his captors gave him a phone and forced him to call his wife and read a prepared statement stating that he had been detained for “speaking at a rally” and for “further clarifications.” In the evening, Beskorovaynyi was subjected to his first interrogation:

"A group of four or five masked men questioned me. They were all aged 30- 35, based on their voices, and all had local accents, except one. They told me that I was being charged with aiding a terrorist organisation but did not present any documents. Then, one of them punched me in the face and threatened to send “bearded fellows from Right Sector” to my wife and daughter … They struck me with something heavy, and threatened to rape and shoot me if I didn’t confess."

Beskorovaynyi became so ill during the interrogation that his captors took him to a cell where two medical workers gave him an injection, which helped stabilize his condition. Then, he said, he was ready to confess to anything. His interrogators dictated a confession to him that he had allegedly planned to poison the local water supply and that he consented to work as an SBU informer. They then made him read it aloud on camera.

The next day, he overheard his wife talking with a guard outside, asking if he was there and begging to pass him some food and clothes. The guard claimed that Beskorovaynyi was “not there.” Later his relatives told him, and confirmed to our researchers, that the facility was in fact the SBU building in Kramatorsk, some 35 kilometers from Kostyantynivka.

[Billy]

I have been listening to Alex Christoforou for a few days now, he is very informative and in my opinion has a grip on reality. He has quite a few updates on his channel.

Description for this video.
Lavrov explains regime change strategy targeting Russia and China. Plus Kherson adopts Ruble.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ORnhylnfwd0

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Johnnycomelately (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)


Here's the YouTube stream, live in 3 hours. Scott Ritter (former UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq, who consistently stated at the time that there were no WMDs there) understands exactly what's going on, and is unlikely to mince his words.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OSkpIq3T-Zc

Thanks for this, Ravenlocke and Bill. Caught it at the start and watched it all (minus a few minutes when it dropped/auto-refreshed). Best 2 3/4 hours I’ve spent in a while.

Yes, I listened to it all. It was detailed and fascinating. Scott Ritter, who talked for most of the time, made one of the best wide-ranging presentations about the entire complex affair (including all the political and economic ramifications) that I've heard so far.

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/sta...51773762744322

https://twitter.com/PLnewstoday/stat...42933445009419

https://twitter.com/OsintUpdates/sta...19375623548930

https://twitter.com/spriter99880/sta...05790664642565

[Kryztian]

Twenty days before invading Ukraine, Russia and China issued this very interesting 12-page joint statement. It shows they have both thought through the long term implications of what is going to happen in the future.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=A-te4nwj9Z4

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status...85158926340097

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/

https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status...84022865584136

[Gwin Ru]

...

... Gonzalo's live streaming:

Why Western Elites Are Stupid, Blind and Amoral Live

KHARKIV
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Gonzalo Lira

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=msS7akeIUeM

[Gwin Ru]

Part 2

KHARKIV
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Gonzalo Lira
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https://t.me/realCRP
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Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=oZFV_-gvaHg