Theosophy

[shaberon]

Posted by Delight (here)
Sometime SOMEONE was in control of what it MEANS to have any unauthorized mystical contact and THEY called it "sin", called the people having it "heathens" and "witches" and projected THEIR evil on Those with the ability to literally SEE THROUGH the veils.

Basically, yes, sin of Heresy.

The program of Theosophy hammers it out in intricate detail.

The bird's eye view is that what we know as Zoroastrianism is the western branch of Hinduism, or Vedism, and that for a duration of twenty-eight Zoroasters was basically the same thing in a different accent.

Eventually their practice decayed and was replaced by a look-alike, which later contributed to Manichean dualism, which is the basis of those very harsh views about heresy and so forth, and it is this religious sentiment which carried forward in the western direction.

And yes, that is also the sense I get as to why some people are afraid of me, because they see a reflection of all the subconscious garbage they are projecting. That is a pretty good English word for it. I try my best to prevent myself from ever doing it.

[shaberon]

Posted by Agape (here)
I’ve still met some pandits in Southern India in 1993 who spoke only in Sanskrit but asked some upstart kids recently and heard anyone who would do that in today’s modern India would be considered “elitist”( chuckles).

As for modern Indian society, it is mostly a sellout.



Recently a Modi story has included in his circle:

spiritual leader Swami Avdheshanand Giri


who sounds like the one associated with Ms. Besant.


The Sanskrit language has never flinched from its ongoing use in Nepalese Buddhism. This is closest to the point of view I am speaking from. Indian Hindus may be letting it slip, but one can get at Nalanda University:

The programmes offered include Global PhD programme, Masters in Historical Studies (MA), Masters in Ecology and Environment Studies (MSc), Masters in Buddhist Studies, Philosophy and Comparative Religions (MA), Masters in Hindu Studies (MA), Masters in World Literature (MA), Masters in Sustainable Development and Management (MBA), and various short-term diploma and certificate programmes in Pali, Sanskrit, English, Korean, and Yoga.


And so what we have found for instance with the Kumarajiva Project, is that there are a whole lot of Chinese who are very avid about Sanskrit. And so they have tried to get Indians to collaborate, but there was practically no response. The Indian disinterest is probably because all of the Sanskrit texts are Buddhist.

Considering how popular many of the Sanskrit songs I listen to, seem to be, it doesn't seem likely to fade out completely from India. The first Sanskrit work translated to English was Bhagavad Gita, which is about as grandiose of divine forms as can be made. It is not the "only language" of Buddhism, but, spiritual exercises are composed in Sanskrit. Many, if not most, translations are problematic, meaning the ones in Tibet and China. Modern critical editions of our texts are sometimes using something like twenty different originals for comparative analysis.

So for example if we look at five Chinese versions and find significant flaws in three of them, then really most things that have already been translated in the modern world might be a little off.

For the most part, it has been an academic view by people who did not really understand the practices.

The only kind of Buddhism in Nepal is Sanskrit tantric Buddhism from ca. year 600. Every other kind is like a branch of this, usually incomplete.

[shaberon]

Posted by onawah (here)
Is that state akin to the state of full Attention that Zen aspires to?
Any why, once we allow it sink in, are we flung to the wolves of karma?

Regarding Delight's post here:https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1489423

It seems the key would have to be to find balance.

My familiarity with Zen is limited. That is how I came to Buddhism first, in the martial arts, and I didn't really get it. We call this the Shaolin tradition of Bodhidharma. It is "direct". My understanding is that Zen anticipates a lot of "instant enlightenment" during day-to-day affairs.

The way we meditated could be described as Quiescence, which is Dhyana, which is Chan, which is Zen. And so yes we also use this in Mahayana but it is called a Mundane state, theoretically possible for animals. It, so to speak, is a constituent phase of meditation, but, on its own, is not viewed as able to attain anything other than Hindu Moksha or Liberation, i. e. you are released from reincarnation.

That is not how Mahayana Buddhism trains. Zen is supposed to be part of the Mahayana but I do not know how they express it. Mahayana is a school of Gradualism.

Mahayana is to take these values, Love and the others, and enter the career of a Bodhisattva which as the opposite of Moksha is an ongoing schedule of recurring reincarnation. In order to do this, one of the first things that we meditate is we literally pray for all of our subconscious karmic seeds to ripen and burst. If you are familiar with Astrology, this is a lot like Saturn Return. It is like asking for a Saturn made out of all the sins of my previous incarnations when I made a pile of bones as big as a million Mt. Merus.

And so then the positive-sounding values Love, Joy, and Compassion, get tested against the final quality of Resolve. And so that is a very real and very personal experience that we cannot exactly teach in lesson form. HPB and David-Neel had miles of Resolve which is often lacking in persons who admire the first three.


This is like Balance which is similar to a gyroscope made of the Catuskoti as used on the Eel Wrigglers, but mainly employed by us as the system of Nagarjuna, the Center Between Extremes. This is a vast subject if you are interested in math, but, the simple application that I follow goes something like this. When confronted by a phenomena, object, entity, etc., extreme views or beliefs are not held because one rests in the Center without holding any of these to be true:

It exists.

It does not exist.

It neither exists nor not exists.

It does not lack existence or non-existence.


The link has various ways of expressing it; as to "using" it or "living" it, someone says:


Puhakka (2003: p. 134-145) charts the stylized reification process of a human sentient being, the spell of reality, a spell dispelled by the Catuṣkoṭi:

We are typically not aware of ourselves as taking something (P) as real. Rather, its reality "takes us," or already has us in its spell as soon as we become aware of its identity (P). Furthermore, it's impossible to take something (P) to be real without, at least momentarily, ignoring or denying that which it is not (not-P). Thus the act of taking something as real necessarily involves some degree of unconsciousness or lack of awareness. This is true even in the simple act of perception when we see a figure that we become aware of as "something." As the German gestalt psychologists demonstrated, for each figure perceived, there is a background of which we remain relatively unaware. We can extend this to texts or spoken communications. For every text we understand there is a context we are not fully cognizant of. Thus, with every figure noticed or reality affirmed, there is, inevitably, unawareness. Is this how a spell works? It takes us unawares.



That is better than nothing. But we have to apply this in terms of actual difficult events. And so it is like a mental defense. It cuts off a lot of unnecessary mental reactions. They are also called the Hedonist, Atheist, Nihilist, and Eternalist.

So, that's the tool. You go around with this four-fold defense, along with four-fold qualities, which is like a Buddhist enhancement of Fourfold Om.

If you can see fluidity and dynamics here, then, most of the advanced practices are a simultaneous fusion like this.

If you can sense a pattern and a rhythm, that is what is starting.

And so I would say it is also hugely about transforming damaged emotions into beneficial ones. Ask Tina Turner. It all depends on the seeker. If we are honest then we know there are billions who are miserable. There are not really a whole lot of things that I would swear to in front of a skeptic, but, the first is that yoga really does have the potential to induce some very unusual physical and mental conditions. Not everyone can do it, but, if you have even a minor aptitude, you can. Secondly, that, alone, does not really do that much for psychological troubles. However the Buddhist goddess Tara actually does. And so by following a slightly more comprehensive way of practicing, I would say she removed those problems I personally had. Only thing I know of that works.


Well if that made me sort of road worthy, then, I got a long one full of karma. Allright. Let's say there is a distinction between when you get mad or upset about an actual event, versus just going mad or being stir crazy in your head in a neurotic or psychotic way. Such events then provoke one's Resolve. And so while this is happening I still continue to find that this practice helps me. However it involves other deities.

Along with Quiescence we are also seeking to cultivate Luminous Mind. That is its name in the Indian Books. H. H. III Karmapa Rangjung Dorje calls it Luminous Heart. This is the real understanding. And so what we might call training or outer Yoga is to move a person into this state. Because it takes a long time and is considered difficult if not incomprehensible, there is a lot of material involved. When you can do that you can do Samadhi training which is what Buddha said made Buddhism Buddhist, that other yogis did not understand.

[onawah]

That is quite a threshold to be standing on, staring into the maws of those famished wolves...
Thank you so much, Shaberon. That was very helpful.

Posted by shaberon (here)
The way we meditated could be described as Quiescence, which is Dhyana, which is Chan, which is Zen. And so yes we also use this in Mahayana but it is called a Mundane state, theoretically possible for animals. It, so to speak, is a constituent phase of meditation, but, on its own, is not viewed as able to attain anything other than Hindu Moksha or Liberation, i. e. you are released from reincarnation.

That is not how Mahayana Buddhism trains. Zen is supposed to be part of the Mahayana but I do not know how they express it. Mahayana is a school of Gradualism.

Mahayana is to take these values, Love and the others, and enter the career of a Bodhisattva which as the opposite of Moksha is an ongoing schedule of recurring reincarnation. In order to do this, one of the first things that we meditate is we literally pray for all of our subconscious karmic seeds to ripen and burst. If you are familiar with Astrology, this is a lot like Saturn Return. It is like asking for a Saturn made out of all the sins of my previous incarnations when I made a pile of bones as big as a million Mt. Merus.

And so then the positive-sounding values Love, Joy, and Compassion, get tested against the final quality of Resolve. And so that is a very real and very personal experience that we cannot exactly teach in lesson form. HPB and David-Neel had miles of Resolve which is often lacking in persons who admire the first three.


This is like Balance which is similar to a gyroscope made of the Catuskoti as used on the Eel Wrigglers, but mainly employed by us as the system of Nagarjuna, the Center Between Extremes. This is a vast subject if you are interested in math, but, the simple application that I follow goes something like this. When confronted by a phenomena, object, entity, etc., extreme views or beliefs are not held because one rests in the Center without holding any of these to be true:

It exists.

It does not exist.

It neither exists nor not exists.

It does not lack existence or non-existence.


The link has various ways of expressing it; as to "using" it or "living" it, someone says:


Puhakka (2003: p. 134-145) charts the stylized reification process of a human sentient being, the spell of reality, a spell dispelled by the Catuṣkoṭi:

We are typically not aware of ourselves as taking something (P) as real. Rather, its reality "takes us," or already has us in its spell as soon as we become aware of its identity (P). Furthermore, it's impossible to take something (P) to be real without, at least momentarily, ignoring or denying that which it is not (not-P). Thus the act of taking something as real necessarily involves some degree of unconsciousness or lack of awareness. This is true even in the simple act of perception when we see a figure that we become aware of as "something." As the German gestalt psychologists demonstrated, for each figure perceived, there is a background of which we remain relatively unaware. We can extend this to texts or spoken communications. For every text we understand there is a context we are not fully cognizant of. Thus, with every figure noticed or reality affirmed, there is, inevitably, unawareness. Is this how a spell works? It takes us unawares.



That is better than nothing. But we have to apply this in terms of actual difficult events. And so it is like a mental defense. It cuts off a lot of unnecessary mental reactions. They are also called the Hedonist, Atheist, Nihilist, and Eternalist.

So, that's the tool. You go around with this four-fold defense, along with four-fold qualities, which is like a Buddhist enhancement of Fourfold Om.

If you can see fluidity and dynamics here, then, most of the advanced practices are a simultaneous fusion like this.

If you can sense a pattern and a rhythm, that is what is starting.

[Delight]

"Once that a student abandons the old and trodden highway of routine, and enters upon the solitary path of independent thought-Godward-he is a Theosophist; an original thinker, a seeker after the eternal truth with 'an inspiration of his own' to solve the universal problems. With every man that is earnestly searching in his own way after a knowledge of the Divine Principle, of man's relations to it, and nature's manifestations of it, Theosophy is allied." - from "What Are The Theosophists?", by H. P. Blavatsky, 1879

I loved so many books over my life and read so many words. Lately I have been feeling that the "shift of the Ages" is happening. I know I am part of this shift and I LOVE God and I LOVE humanity. No one is excluded form that space I feel of belonging. There God IS. Many many people ALL over are meeting a personal relationship with DIVINE as they can understand Divine.

WHAT if we ARE being lifted? I am definitely part of the Collective that claims humanity will lift itself beyond the need to have separation, war and fear. Paul Selig's Guides speak for me. Why is it that these messages came to me independently and then are affirmed in talks like this one below?? IMO I know God. It is a PRESENCE. That does not make me special. I asked.

Maybe I am mistaken about the intimation that something WONDERFUL is unfolding? God IS and God never made junk. God never punished anyone. God never separated the light. Why would God NOT allow us to have the world of Joy, Beauty, Peace and plenty if THAT is what we truly desire?

Instead of searching tomes of philosophy, we need to search our own hearts and minds. THERE is where the trouble lies.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Usm64okGCA8

[shaberon]

Posted by Delight (here)
IMO I know God. It is a PRESENCE. That does not make me special. I asked.

This is very similar to what we do. I am in the difficult position of the fact that in English, Buddhism denies God and so does Theosophy when copying this. I understand that this could be revolting to some mindsets and cause a person to quit listening. Hindus don't like it either. In this case, there is really a significant message that will go unnoticed. We are probably better off to express ourselves that we disagree with "some teachings" and "some followers". And it is not hard to find a major trend such as:


Orthodox Hinduism which attaches itself to any form of Christianity by way of almost equal identity.


This is in the vein of Bhagavata Purana as related to the well-known Krishna Consciousness and so on. The role of Puranic literature is in explaining the Vedas. The name "purana" means "ancient tradition", and so, these books made nothing, but are more like reports about beliefs from various areas. There are eighteen major ones and none of them are the same. The default understanding of "Hinduism" in the west is generally this one group, which became influential around the 1600s.


The first major and obvious difference between Yoga and most exoteric religions is on the issue of Creation or the Creator.


I think it may be compatible with a view of religion which asserts a superior Divine Architect as being above or more spiritual than the materialistic Creator. Then what we do is disassemble and reverse creation, and, so to speak, manifest that Creator aspect within the individual. This is very different from positing a type of unknown creator, to whom one attempts to serve its inscrutable mysterious will. That notion has essentially been removed and replaced.

It is this which provides the "yogi powers" that early Theosophists were interested in.

From that point, few Yoga schools really proceed in the same way. But they are all basically similar in penetrating the illusive nature of creation.

Buddhism is the same, divided into different schools of practice. Some of them do not do much other than Quiescence, but, as we see, this is limited, and isn't necessarily going to give you the same kind of Presence.

Our Kagyu system follows Prajna which as we have said is very similar to Sophia of Gnosticism and some of of the theology in the eastern churches. So it is rather this that we seek to invoke as a conscious presence. They don't usually teach it strongly enough. When I went around, there was just a short recital and then meditation based on Quiescence. You had to have the curiosity to find that the recital meant to study the whole philosophy and system and so forth. And so I have and so there is a plainer way of putting it, that she is not a philosophy or even a mantra, but, actually-manifested immanent divinity very similar to Sophia.


That is the closest way I could put it in terms of a few English theological ideas. In our view, she is not the only possible kind of divine presence, but is more like the source of them all.

This is no longer like Theosophy, because it is not an attempt to summarize all possible human experience.

At a basic level, there is a fourfold manner about transforming emotions and protecting the mind, or, rather, prevent it from building concepts, so that it just has direct, intense experience. Then we are going to attempt a spiritual practice on what you might call Divine Sophia. Finally it will bring in what are known as life winds or prana.

And so the successful practitioner enters a school of Presences. That is why we do not agree that it is limited to one teacher or incarnation. Properly understood, it is a system of Divinity similar to what it sounds like you described. I have seen a few times that the Aryas are translated as Saint School.


Most of our entire argument is the plane of Kama Loka which means Desire, which is the same question as to whether our true desires are those of peace and joy and so on. It is exactly that. Here we believe in Heaven and Hell far more affably than anyone would give us credit for. The underlying issues of how our system of yoga meditation was developed is about the experiences of consciousness, and does so from the following observation which may be familiar to anyone's theology:


Hell guardians do not experience pain from their environmental stimuli.

Hell beings do not cease experiencing pain from their environmental stimuli.


If you have any sensitivity and you look at a magnified hell situation such as Ukraine, this is Pathos which is the Compassion that we hold in our close values. Our story says that the Saint can enter Hell and by way of personal conversion, grant freedom to beings trapped there. But he cannot stop the next one from coming in the door. And so we are trying to prevent them from entering. This is why we try to make Buddhist nations or Buddhist civilizations. Almost everywhere I look, earth actually is ruled by hell forces. To pretend otherwise or remain ignorant or back down from it would be non-Buddhist.


And so I think it must resemble to some extent, the spiritual views of others, the main difference being something like having multiple sets of encyclopedias on how to do Prajnaparamita. I have had to find out myself that it should be more strongly affirmed as meaning immanent divinity, and, because I have experienced this, I can testify to it.

[Bo Atkinson]

My simplified, 50+ years of unrelenting, mostly unorthodox research~still unfinished– This comes from the bold perspective about “the alumni of human evolution ”, and beyond the physical-mental-emotional, having actually maintained causal-consciousness, as the alert state between our dense physical world and the succeeding worlds beyond. Possibly, could that relate to HPB’s expression: “ring pass not”?


With all due respect for Sanskrit, I barely know of a few words, even while reading a larger number quite regularly, as for example in the translation in the excerpt below, e.g. the kama loka (the emotional world), devachan (the mental world.

And yes! We do risk various kinds of heresy and actual physical targeting! Fear not. I am reminded of the 1970s Kung Fu TV series with Daid Caradine, as the martial artist priest in the wild west (cowboy days gone by). Risking the excerpt below we might open up another big, huge can of worms.


Following is an excerpted explanation of Mr Judge’s works, one of the Founding Theosophists.

14 It is no wonder that there is confusion in the minds of theosophists.


[…]


17 In the background, of course, is that term, “illusion”, of Indian illusionist philosophy (Advaita), a term that has always paralysed thought. Thus: “The ‘cell’ is an illusion... It has no existence as a material thing... physical molecules... must be leaving the cell each moment. Hence there is no physical cell.” That an exchange of primordial atoms takes place in all atoms (these composing the molecules) does not mean that the latter do not exist.


18 The chapters on reincarnation, karma, kama loka (the emotional world), devachan (the mental world), and the individual’s states of consciousness in between incarnations do not make things any clearer.


19 Judge was especially interested in the law of periodicity, discussing cycles of sundry kinds. Mostly, he did not go further than accounting for the notions of these among various peoples.


Source:
The Origin of the Knowledge and the Fictions by Henry T. Laurency. The essay is the third section of the book The Knowledge of Reality by Henry T. Laurency. The text is a translation from the Swedish by Lars Adelskogh.

[shaberon]

Posted by wavydome (here)
...the alert state between our dense physical world and the succeeding worlds beyond. Possibly, could that relate to HPB’s expression: “ring pass not”?


With all due respect for Sanskrit, I barely know of a few words, even while reading a larger number quite regularly, as for example in the translation in the excerpt below, e.g. the kama loka (the emotional world), devachan (the mental world.

Well, it seems to me that a great deal of the Mahatmas' interest was in controlling the translations coming out of the east.

In their own words, the chiefs "searched Europe for nearly a hundred years" to find someone fit for the task (HPB). We can also compare this to outside sources, which verify that in the late 1700s, there definitely were Buddhist emissaries to the Maharajah of Benares in India, and there also were to Russia, as I put in this post in today's Ukraine events.


Judge is considered part of ULT because of his sheer dedication to HPB. He is not an occult writer. There were no other mouthpieces other than HPB. She actually does have a good esoteric knowledge of the Puranas and Indian Yoga. In the Theosophical Glossary are very many Sanskrit terms that are handled rather well. From there, we can easily retrieve something like:


Ring-pass-not The limit in spiritual, intellectual, or psychological power or consciousness, beyond which an individual is unable to pass until he evokes from within the strength and the vision to carry him forwards and over the circumscribing limits set by that individual’s own karma. In the Stanzas of Dzyan, the lipikas are said to circumscribe the triangle, the first one, the cube, the second one, and the pentacle within the egg, which is the ring called pass not for those who descend and ascend and for those who are progressing toward the great Day Be-With-Us. Also called the dhyanipasa (rope of the dhyanis or angels) that hedges off the phenomenal from the noumenal kosmos. The world circumscribed by this ring is signified mathematically by 31415 = 14 expressing hierarchies of dhyan-chohans. The imbodying monads, and men who are ascending towards purification but have not yet quite reached the goal, can cross the ring only on the Day Be-With-Us, the day when man will have freed himself from the trammels of ignorance and recognized fully the nonseparateness of his personal ego from the universal ego, and returns into conscious at-one-ness with Brahman.



To try to help her out here, those 14 hierarchies would be the Fourteen Lokas and Talas as on our previous page. It is the Egg or total aura or Hiranyagarbha. When she says "Lipika" it is not a practical term in Buddhism, but, she does actually include the correct idea in its definition:

...the Hindu four Maharajas and chitra-gupta


Her overall attempt to explain Lipika is very lofty and still speaks of greater hierarchies and so on. But this actually is fairly similar to the right explanation:

These recorders of and in the karmic ledger of the solar system mark the distinctive barrier between the personal ego and the impersonal self, which latter is the noumenon and parent-source of the former. Hence the allegory that they circumscribe the manifested world of matter within the Ring-pass-not — a mystical way of saying that they karmically circumscribe the limits of manifestation of the worlds of matter within the limits of karmic achievement for the evolving beings, and these limits form the Ring-pass-not.



These Hindu Four Maharajas are the Buddhist ones. They are the guardians of the lowest plane of Kama Loka and they speak through the Tibetan oracles that Theosophy called Chohans. And so although I am not sure what her statements about how they may be portrayed in other myths or religions...how that means anything in practical terms...it actually does match the beginning of Buddhist tantrism. Again these are not deities, but oath-bound angry ghosts that are extraordinarily dangerous. Presumably one had better be well-balanced if intending to pass those gates.



The most literal translation of Kama is Desire, as in Kama Sutra. This is not necessarily emotion, but will, at the subconscious level down to reflexes and involuntary actions.

Devachan is not Sanskrit.

In Theosophy it was frequently discussed as an After Death condition. However it is really a Tibetan name for an ancient Indian Buddhist meditation:

Sukhavati (Skt. Sukhāvatī; Tib. བདེ་བ་ཅན་, Dewachen, Wyl. bde ba can or bde ba chen) is the blissful buddha field of Amitabha.



In this context, the Buddha Fields or Pure Lands are equal to the Seventh Heaven or highest plane of Kama Loka. Each Buddha Family has its own realm there. The Sanskrit term for the collective whole is Akanistha. Sukhavati or Devachan is the most popular practice of it and can be traced to ca. year 300. In Nepal, statuary for this is everywhere, it is very much alive. Nepal has the closest to original version of what is also effectively the national practice of Tibet and Mongolia.


Devachan cannot really be a description or synonym for something, since it is the experience of a strenuously cultivated practice.

So here we have rather quickly forced Theosophy to yield the Buddhist examples of the lowest and highest planes in Kama Loka. Hinduism does not have this. It may be quite easy to draw on a conceptual chart, however it actually represents a yoga practice that would take an average, uncommitted devotee the rest of their life; others faster depending on merit and acumen. The Pure Land is still not Enlightenment, but, it is the place where Enlightenment is realized.

It matches the principle of reincarnation, since chances are that none of us will really become a Buddha in this lifetime. Then the After Death state is experienced as little other than a smooth transition through the Pure Land of one's Family until one is reborn.

The main reason for the popularity of Amitabha or Lotus Family is because it has been found to be more accessible to greater numbers of people. And so although this is perfectly valid and legitimate, it is not the only way to do it. I am happy to go over the Lotus Family material, however, there is someone who was never a Theosophist, who is, moreover, the Virgil-esque experience to be directly transferred to a practitioner. The Theosophical Mahatmas did this same yoga and spoke of it as being a tradition. And so here I am presenting the system of Tara as portrayed by one of the few who ever talked about it, from the twentieth century.


Delok Dawa Drolma, author of Journey to Realms Beyond Death.





According to Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche:

My mother was revered throughout Tibet for her extraordinary powers as a lama, but she was more famous for being a delog, one who has crossed the threshold of death and returned to tell about it. Hers was not a visionary or momentary near-death experience. For five full days she lay cold, breathless, and devoid of any vital signs, while her consciousness moved freely into other realms, often escorted by the wisdom goddess White Tara. She undertook her journey as a delog according to instructions she had received from Tara in visions, but against the wishes of her lamas, who pleaded with her not to take such a risk. It is remarkable that she, a young woman of sixteen, had so much confidence in her meditation that she prevailed over very wise, much older lamas. However, she herself had been recognized as an emanation of White Tara, a powerful force of enlightened mind for the longevity and liberation of all sentient beings.



According to her, in the Pure Land of Tara, there, Tara is surrounded by multiple Taras, singing her original song in Sanskrit.

This song is esoteric, and the trouble is that all traditions of it are someone's stamp that lack explanation. No one has ever really talked about the song itself. The first thing that is apparent in looking at it is that it is very old, and none of these traditions could have possibly applied to it originally. Because we actually do have a lot of Sanskrit texts, then we have material that has more or less been ignored in Tibet but is done in Nepal.


This type of Tara Yoga is able to produce an experience of the planes of Death without actually dying, and then it is part of this same meditation that is used at the time of actually dying. It is even given to non-Buddhists in hospice work. This is what is behind the fact that she has been popularized as a relief for mental disturbances. That is not the same Tara meditation. It is something people would need in order to do more advanced yoga. It is how I bonded with her.

The odd thing is that once I felt better, then it seemed like she had run out of purpose. And so when I tried to ask her why is that, I became really confused. Tibetan sources are difficult and I was not satisfied by what seemed to be contradictions. The answer lies more in the Sanskrit vein and that there was one little girl who "got it".


This is largely a bardic system. A song opens another song, and another, and so on. Let me try to put it this way. Most of my life I use practice notes because something like Vajrasattva Hundred Syllable Mantra is awkward for an English speaker to just "do". I found the recording and listened several times as if I were actually going to learn it, and just gave up.

Somewhere close to a year after listening to it, I could spontaneously do the whole thing.

That changes the application, right? Now instead of being something difficult to do in the sacred space of meditation, it has become an ordinary everyday bond. But I have no idea how that happened. It was almost as if I wrote it myself.

I do not know anything about secret texts claimed by HPB or any special strand of Buddhism that cannot be found within the Abhidharma. I do know that the Mahatmas' personal initiations were the same as done by Delok Dawa Drolma. Because of her, we can then say, there is material which appears exoteric but is highly occult, based in Tara. According to a sastra:


And this means that someone like me can do this.


It is important that we have the Tibetan, Chinese, etc., sources, but with some rudimentary Sanskrit, we have been able to summarize a major practice that could last a lifetime for most people, or, with the compassion of Tara, can even be mastered by children.

[Bo Atkinson]

Well, it seems to me that a great deal of the Mahatmas' interest was in controlling the translations coming out of the east.

However inexplicable , however unresolved, this thread can at least weigh out the nature of the divide, east and west. The tremendous developments through India's ancient advancement may not categorically fit in the westerner's mind, just as the upstart-westerner's science may not fit into every Indian's mind, nor in the mind of the masses anywhere.

May this amorphous process of piecing together, build a little foot bridge for world peace. Relying on fewer specialized words and enigmas may yet provide a sufficient grounds forwardly, to complete our sowing (our planting seeds), and to reduce our bad harvest, (back slipping and distractions). Even this general law of life is so challenging to follow.

In all hemispheres, the inhabitants are free to advance as they may, and usually it is the local minorities who advance while the populations lapse under illusions and fictions, under dogma, under giant constructs of little benefit to all.

Public discussion is mastering criticisms of western politics, "the will to power", along with its problematic leadership and propagandist dogmas, etc.... Perhaps it is polite, to overlook the politics behind India's wisdom, its caste system, and Indian illusionist philosophy (Advaita).

We could explore an analogy, stretching from artistic representation which fools the eye pleasingly, to the Advaita of cosmic cosmic proportions, which in effect holds the self in lower worlds of man, holds the being, the monad in lower worlds so indefinitely.

The pleasures brought by artistic renderings need not deceive a seeker, as it entertains for moments passing. While illusions of cosmic progress may block the seeker's progress for eons. Theosophy kind of open-sources questions about Advaita, and it is not even slightly defeated by personal errors of founding members, (like Mr. Judge).

I kinda agree with Agape, that perhaps anyone can be a Theosophists through discourse; because, it never was "set in stone" with dogma, and it allows us to question everything, to get beyond illusions which hold us back.

[Delight]

Posted by wavydome (here)
I kinda agree with Agape, that perhaps anyone can be a Theosophists through discourse; because, it never was "set in stone" with dogma, and it allows us to question everything, to get beyond illusions which hold us back.

IMO Our agreement (or belief) holds the "world' in place and the after life too according to William Buhlman who IMO has as much credibility as anyone. He presented a talk that is CLASSIC

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=c2j8Vh3UzJI

IMO we need to Grok that these systems exist to perpetuate themselves. WE identify with them... the whole lot. It is just the way things are until we unlearn at SOME stage of our existence. the systems have NO INTENTION to be undone.

The exploration of consciousness is clothed by the styles of the wearers. So, answer me this one... why do people cling so tightly to the styles of clothes of our early indoctrination?

[Bo Atkinson]

Posted by Delight (here)
IMO we need to Grok that these systems exist to perpetuate themselves. WE identify with them... the whole lot. It is just the way things are until we unlearn at SOME stage of our existence. the systems have NO INTENTION to be undone.

The exploration of consciousness is clothed by the styles of the wearers. So, answer me this one... why do people cling so tightly to the styles of clothes of our early indoctrination?

If people could build better galaxies like wearing new clothes, the do-it-yourself Youtubes would skirt this discussion. Fold it up and happily, forever after.

Physicality does get in the way, the hungry stomach growls, and our obstacle course remains where we left off, if it didn't back slip a notch, by the next life coming.

A lesser heard knowledge can be heard, for those with an ear to listen, and kindly let the world spin round.

[shaberon]

Posted by Delight (here)
The exploration of consciousness is clothed by the styles of the wearers. So, answer me this one... why do people cling so tightly to the styles of clothes of our early indoctrination?

I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you talking about childhood or something else?


As a matter of simplicity and due to disturbing emotions, human beings sink to the low end of the scale. Generally we summarize religions and philosophies in these degrees:


0...irrelevant, ignorant, nothing, leading to animal and immoral behavior

1..."something good" generally leading to rebirth in a heaven world, such as most religions

2..."karma and rebirth", liberation from rebirths, as in most Indian religion

3...Bodhisattva Path


And so for the most part we content ourselves that 1 is greater than 0. If someone will at least cling to 1 for this reason, that is ok. Theosophy does state level 2, which we know from Greek history as being stamped out of the discussion.


The discussion took a trajectory from saying "hush" to "pre-existence of the soul" to the precipice of throwing Europe into a Dark Age at a given moment.

There was a time when Alexandria was basically equal to Lhasa or Nalanda. Different ideas were held, and "schools" formed within a larger university by process of open debate. One of the brightest and most successful was:


Hypatia (Υπατία)













For quite some time, she remained well-known.

Julia Cameron 1867:






Olga Brandon 1890:






Her identity may have gotten submerged in a more modern figure.

1830 Marianne, Lady Liberty:






Hypatia brutally murdered 415:







Past this point, you have one version of one book from Rome. The difficulty in spreading knowledge or advancing consciousness does not happen in the east. So in this geographical area, you are left with at most a very crude "1" while chances are that a lot of the leadership is just a "0" in disguise.

This has been an ongoing relatively forceful indoctrination.

It never affected me personally, and, I am not sure that very much has that does not at least correspond to "2". It has always been news and updates to me that not only are other minds not as sharp, many of them are vicious. I just do not understand what it would really be like to strongly believe something that I consider outright dumb. Nature has shown me thousands of examples of it, and what I gain is avoidant tendencies.

On the other hand, I can open a person up somewhere they've never been before, if they are my friend and they trust me. Any kind of actual real relationship invested with time can do this. But there are really not that many. I can't do much without that genuine-ness. In my experience it is rare that anyone tries to struggle mentally and spiritually to uplift or liberate themselves. Maybe karma has sidelined me so I take a long look at dysfunctional and crude mentalities. I am not sure. All I can really claim is to have made a few genuine differences here and there.

[Bo Atkinson]

I cringe at this barbaric history, and love the timeless theosophers.

Much sacrifice was feminized lovingly, with so small a masculine following. We are tangled in a seeming paradox, which is actually understandable. Truths are lovingly demonstrated which are confused by men and barely studied by mankind.

We are simultaneously spiked and salted by the Black Lodge because we vote their programing into power, and we indulge the lower emotional world, ever since their rulership of Atlantis

Emotionally engineered food affects the gut, and mankind has consistently feasted in the lower emotional world, for as long as the power-strategy can slash and burn, to fake progress, by hook or crook.

Posted by shaberon (here)

[...]

As a matter of simplicity and due to disturbing emotions, human beings sink to the low end of the scale. Generally we summarize religions and philosophies in these degrees:


0...irrelevant, ignorant, nothing, leading to animal and immoral behavior

1..."something good" generally leading to rebirth in a heaven world, such as most religions

2..."karma and rebirth", liberation from rebirths, as in most Indian religion

3...Bodhisattva Path


And so for the most part we content ourselves that 1 is greater than 0. If someone will at least cling to 1 for this reason, that is ok. Theosophy does state level 2, which we know from Greek history as being stamped out of the discussion.


The discussion took a trajectory from saying "hush" to "pre-existence of the soul" to the precipice of throwing Europe into a Dark Age at a given moment.

There was a time when Alexandria was basically equal to Lhasa or Nalanda. Different ideas were held, and "schools" formed within a larger university by process of open debate. One of the brightest and most successful was:


Hypatia (Υπατία)













For quite some time, she remained well-known.

Julia Cameron 1867:






Olga Brandon 1890:






Her identity may have gotten submerged in a more modern figure.

1830 Marianne, Lady Liberty:






Hypatia brutally murdered 415:







Past this point, you have one version of one book from Rome. The difficulty in spreading knowledge or advancing consciousness does not happen in the east. So in this geographical area, you are left with at most a very crude "1" while chances are that a lot of the leadership is just a "0" in disguise.

This has been an ongoing relatively forceful indoctrination.

It never affected me personally, and, I am not sure that very much has that does not at least correspond to "2". It has always been news and updates to me that not only are other minds not as sharp, many of them are vicious. I just do not understand what it would really be like to strongly believe something that I consider outright dumb. Nature has shown me thousands of examples of it, and what I gain is avoidant tendencies.

On the other hand, I can open a person up somewhere they've never been before, if they are my friend and they trust me. Any kind of actual real relationship invested with time can do this. But there are really not that many. I can't do much without that genuine-ness. In my experience it is rare that anyone tries to struggle mentally and spiritually to uplift or liberate themselves. Maybe karma has sidelined me so I take a long look at dysfunctional and crude mentalities. I am not sure. All I can really claim is to have made a few genuine differences here and there.

[shaberon]

Posted by wavydome (here)
The tremendous developments through India's ancient advancement may not categorically fit in the westerner's mind...

No, here's the example. The founders of the TS had restored Buddhism in Sri Lanka. Olcott also was not an occult writer, however, he was a disciple of The Path of Purity, Visuddhimagga, by Buddhaghosa approximately in the 5th Century in Sri Lanka.


Besides the Canon, this is the most important thing in Theravada Buddhism, such that:


According to scholars, the Visuddhimagga is one of the extremely rare texts within the enormous literatures of various forms of Jainism, Buddhism, and Hinduism to give explicit details about how spiritual masters were thought to actually manifest supernormal abilities. Abilities such as flying through the air, walking through solid obstructions, diving into the ground, walking on water and so forth are performed by changing one element, such as earth, into another element, such as air.



It is like that. Olcott took it at face value, and this is what he did. If the contents sound vaguely familiar, that is because it was taken by the Golden Dawn and incorporated into what they do. Not necessarily in the right way because they are not Theravadins. Even the notorious Harari does Vispassana Meditation. Does that mean I have to blame Theravada for the Great Reset? I hope not! But I am sure he is able to use the intellectual side to help his calmness and concentration.

HPB also did this, but, painted herself into a corner by not knowing how to tie it to Mahayana Buddhism.

We can easily now retrieve the Visuddhimagga Text and see for ourselves. If you at least scroll into the contents then you will get a metaphysical vibe. You have to go deep into it and there is the same principle I mentioned a few days ago:

Ch. IX The Divine Abidings 291

[(1) Loving-Kindness] 291

[(2) Compassion] 308

[(3) Gladness] 309

[(4) Equanimity] 310



And most of the rest of what is in it is the same as Mahayana. The main difference is that here, everything is expressed generically as an Object.

That is the language that Mahayana is based on. It uses an Object. This is what is used to train in Mahayana meditation. Moreover, such Objects are personified, such that what in Visuddhimagga is called:

[The Earth Kasina]


We would call Vasudhara. Then I can say she is the same as some Hindu goddesses, and, also, has a Buddhist variety. In this book, it is just a small shape. If desired, Vasudhara can be reduced to a syllable. So our "Earth Kasina" has broad dynamics and our process and goal are in addition to what is given here. But, as a kind of lowest common denominator, it is almost identical to this Pali system.

Mahayana uses the Yogacara teaching on using the Object. So if one was for some reason more comfortable with a small square, one could probably simply do the exercises in a Mahayana manner. Overall, the goal in Theravada is to cause the manifestation of a Pure Object. And so even if I do the Theravada and I choose a yellow square, even this basic thing is hard to actually see. With training, some day it becomes easy to see. With more training, some day it takes on a new, higher form.


This kind of thing is tangible enough that you can do Lilac Chaser and see if you find the greenish one:















That is almost certainly how they started Nalanda, by blending this system with Mahayana. I really do not think Golden Dawn is quite the same progression of it. They are like a collector's club. Theravada is not really that big. In Kagyu we have thousands of centers. We have so many in Europe that we even have Iceland. All continents but Antarctica. Indian communities have their own temples which are mostly for themselves. Everything of ours is a mission. Earthlings must at least be mildly tolerant of it in a relatively undiluted form.


In the illusion, there is no greenish one. Nevertheless, in about five seconds, I only see it and no purple ones.

[onawah]

Buhlman is not an especially erudite speaker, but I appreciate his honesty and unpretentiousness, and I think he's right.
Right about how we are trapped in the "box" we make of our belief systems.
I didn't really realize what a box I had created for myself until I read Sir Lawrence Gardner's work and became able to let go of my Christian beliefs in the Crucifixtion and Resurrection, and accept the idea that Jesus was human, not a God, and furthermore, that he was married to Mary Magdalene and a father.
That made some big cracks in the box, and allowed me to begin recognizing how my beliefs had affected and limited me.
Theosophy helped to make more cracks in the box, and a perspective more outside the box (though there are lots of beliefs in Theosophy too!).
Thanks, Delight.

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by wavydome (here)
I kinda agree with Agape, that perhaps anyone can be a Theosophists through discourse; because, it never was "set in stone" with dogma, and it allows us to question everything, to get beyond illusions which hold us back.

IMO Our agreement (or belief) holds the "world' in place and the after life too according to William Buhlman who IMO has as much credibility as anyone. He presented a talk that is CLASSIC

https://youtube.com/watch?v=c2j8Vh3UzJI

IMO we need to Grok that these systems exist to perpetuate themselves. WE identify with them... the whole lot. It is just the way things are until we unlearn at SOME stage of our existence. the systems have NO INTENTION to be undone.

The exploration of consciousness is clothed by the styles of the wearers. So, answer me this one... why do people cling so tightly to the styles of clothes of our early indoctrination?

[Delight]

Posted by onawah (here)
Buhlman is not an especially erudite speaker, but I appreciate his honesty and unpretentiousness, and I think he's right.
Right about how we are trapped in the "box" we make of our belief systems.
I didn't really realize what a box I had created for myself until I read Sir Lawrence Gardner's work and became able to let go of my Christian beliefs in the Crucifixtion and Resurrection, and accept the idea that Jesus was human, not a God, and furthermore, that he was married to Mary Magdalene and a father.
That made some big cracks in the box, and allowed me to begin recognizing how my beliefs had affected and limited me.
Theosophy helped to make more cracks in the box, and a perspective more outside the box (though there are lots of beliefs in Theosophy too!).
Thanks, Delight.

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by wavydome (here)
I kinda agree with Agape, that perhaps anyone can be a Theosophists through discourse; because, it never was "set in stone" with dogma, and it allows us to question everything, to get beyond illusions which hold us back.

IMO Our agreement (or belief) holds the "world' in place and the after life too according to William Buhlman who IMO has as much credibility as anyone. He presented a talk that is CLASSIC

https://youtube.com/watch?v=c2j8Vh3UzJI

IMO we need to Grok that these systems exist to perpetuate themselves. WE identify with them... the whole lot. It is just the way things are until we unlearn at SOME stage of our existence. the systems have NO INTENTION to be undone.

The exploration of consciousness is clothed by the styles of the wearers. So, answer me this one... why do people cling so tightly to the styles of clothes of our early indoctrination?

If this is the "Apocalypse" (Apocalypse, from Ancient Greek: ἀποκάλυψις apokálypsis, meaning "revelation" or "disclosure"), IMO the reveal I observe is that the how is being revealed showing clearly that the realm of belief system operates in our personal experience. Belief is what clothes this reality. This is a larger POV.

I don't "believe" anything about "Jesus"... I just do not know. However, I look at what has been claimed about the qualities of Christ, the qualities of "the Good News" and I absolutely INTEND TO BE the qualities I observe touted for Christ consciousness...

These qualities that I hold fast are not exclusive to "Christianity" or any religion. They IMO are the qualities embodied when one is in Relationship with (Unknown) God. I do NOT see the qualities presented below as "beliefs". Beliefs give them form IMO.

As Buhlman says, we cannot escape the way beliefs shape what we experience. This also seems a larger POV because it shows that even this belief that beliefs shape reality MUST be operating? IMO we are being offered a "world" to live in that is quite focused on learning all about the heart of the matter.

I will that my world be "god's" world: For me to be closer and closer to the essence of what is an Unknown but felt as Presence. I hold fast to loving God and looking for TRUTH. I may be all wrong? I may be wrong but I am open to the TRUTH.

upon my spiritual awakening, I met again with the Teachings of the Christ. But this time around, they were presented to me in a very different form then previously and these new understandings offered me the revolution of my own heart that until then had remained firmly closed.

Firstly I became fully aware that God/Source was not separate from us but within us and within everything around us….

And then I realized that the Christ Teachings were not just words of wisdom but indeed pure consciousness; seeds of consciousness that we already carry inside and through the process of receiving both the new spiritual learnings and the practicing of meditation, this Christ Consciousness could simply grow and develop from within our own being all those magnificent Christ qualities of Love&Light that are always present in us.

In the beginning of my transformation I was taken back by these new discoveries so radically different from everything I knew before, but after a while all started to make perfect sense….

To be awakened, to be conscious means to align our consciousness with the Christ Consciousness as the evolution and growth inside our awareness simply signifies to fully accept and embrace all the Christ Principles:

Love

Compassion

Patience

Forgiveness

Generosity

Peace

Faith

Divinity

Charity

Oneness

Humility

Gratitude

Non-judgment

I began to fully comprehend that the key was to be found not in listening to the teachings as just wisdom learnings of the mind only, but in being able to instead embody them. To begin the merging of my own consciousness with the Christ Consciousness, as one, was my own turning point, gifting me with the full insight of what meant to truly walk on the spiritual path…and as it is within me, it is also within you… continue here https://thriveglobal.com/stories/sim...consciousness/

It is NOW the most important moment ever to embody the qualities we wish to see in the world we create as we BELIEVE it. If people truly choose the inversion of the qualities and desire the "transhuman" world etc... I say let them enjoy THAT. However, I do not intend to live there.

I assume there will be a split in realities because I KNOW there are lots of people who have moved beyond all religious doctrines and want to live in the world of God's qualities. I am intending that the LIGHT of TRUTH so flood the world that it rends the veils. That is my interest and the old writings do sometimes shed some light on how to access the RELATIONSHIP with God.

[onawah]

I don't disagree with any of the attributes that you assign to Jesus, or the need to embody those virutes ourselves, Delight.
However, the whole spin that the Church put onto Christianity to make it into a belief system requires followers, followers who believe that God sent his only Son to be cruficifed for their sins, to accept the Pope as Christ's representative on Earth, and priests as necessary intermedaries between us and God, women as inferior and unclean, and all the rest--that is what created those boxes and makes them more and more restrictive and claustrophic.
Much of that doctrine was created to help make Pagans think that Christianity might simply be a continuation of the "Old Religion", as it paralled many of the old essential myths and beliefs, thus affording the Church the power to collect tithes and "Indulgences" and to assume power of all kinds over the world.

Posted by Delight (here)

I assume there will be a split in realities because I KNOW there are lots of people who have moved beyond all religious doctrines and want to live in the world of God's qualities. I am intending that the LIGHT of TRUTH so flood the world that it rends the veils. That is my interest and the old writings do sometimes shed some light on how to access the RELATIONSHIP with God.

[Delight]

Posted by onawah (here)
I don't disagree with any of the attributes that you assign to Jesus, or the need to embody those virutes ourselves, Delight.
However, the whole spin that the Church put onto Christianity to make it into a belief system requires followers, followers who believe that God sent his only Son to be cruficifed for their sins, to accept the Pope as Christ's representative on Earth, and priests as necessary intermedaries between us and God, women as inferior and unclean, and all the rest--that is what created those boxes and makes them more and more restrictive and claustrophic.
Much of that doctrine was created to help make Pagans think that Christianity might simply be a continuation of the "Old Religion", as it paralled many of the old essential myths and beliefs, thus affording the Church the power to collect tithes and "Indulgences" and to assume power of all kinds over the world.

Posted by Delight (here)

I assume there will be a split in realities because I KNOW there are lots of people who have moved beyond all religious doctrines and want to live in the world of God's qualities. I am intending that the LIGHT of TRUTH so flood the world that it rends the veils. That is my interest and the old writings do sometimes shed some light on how to access the RELATIONSHIP with God.

I say the TRUTH IS the truth whether I label it or not or even KNOW it. It makes perfect sense to take TRUTH and INVERT it to NEGATE and twist it. The religions have done their best to spin a narrative. To obfuscate the significance of our being with God and call it being with the church IMO. I think what you just said of your journey is something about how the truth was obfuscated gENERALLY. What if we are "here" to pass through all the obfuscations we agreed into place? Take them to the limit so they become impossible to believe?

I DO NOT AGREE that I need any other than God to teach me, assist me, support me, love me, cherish me. This is MY personal decision. Now that I have made this decision, I cannot even hear a contradicting thought. To me this is surrendering. To me this is my "theosophy" because the more I choose to direct my mundane attention on being with God, the less I know of all the verbiage I once recalled. I think my beliefs are all being worn down.

I am uncertain as to everything except I exist and God IS.

I am expecting my prayer will be answered that I do not have to die and be born again to continue building my relationship with the Divine. I give thanks that I am Me as I currently understand me.

I give Thanks for YOU being YOU too. We are here together as ONE and many unpacking IMO the great gift of a shift of consciousness my heart knows is possible.

[shaberon]

Posted by Delight (here)

Love

Compassion

Patience

Forgiveness

Generosity

Peace

Faith

Divinity

Charity

Oneness

Humility

Gratitude

Non-judgment

Are you aware that you have quoted our exoteric Buddhism very closely?

This is why I expect that Harari cannot meditate properly since most of these qualities are presumably lacking.


They are within the original Rosicrucian concept:


To do good by stealth and blush at the discovery.


Theosophical history roughly says such Rosicrucians were around until the 1600s, and that no modern societies using that name are the same thing.

To answer my own question, is there such a thing as a western spiritual path--Alchemy.


Until the 1600s it was the same as Natural Science which Isaac Newton followed. And so, if he had not been jettisoned and sort of overwritten by intellectual adversaries related to the Encyclopedists, this would have continued as mankind's normative mode of education.


Allright. Let us say the above-mentioned Qualities are indispensible. They are more or less an individual's own property and are portable. And so if we review for a moment, there is no scriptural basis for a Church. That is a building and social institution, related to Circe and Circle. What the disciples actually did was an Assembly which is a Gathering which is Ecclesia. This is taken in a sort of dual meaning of All Lives, and then of those who have consciously come to the Ecclesia to strengthen the qualities. This relationship is shown in an alchemical symbol which is probably familiar:


=


The two lines represent Zoe or Life and Ecclesia or All Lives or the disciples consciously.


The purpose of such Assemblies was to go forth and relieve Suffering of All Lives. As far as I am concerned, the early followers of Jesus were doing a basic form of Buddhism wherein we cannot say they denied "pre-existence of the soul".


That symbol is, of course, still Equality. This is how we view Perpetual Motion in Complete Equilibrium. To try it without, for example, Humility, can only result in disaster.


Equality, Balance, and Justice of course would be outer signs of inner success. Because these are hard to find, we are content to remind ourselves that worldlings are not particularly spiritual. There was a time at the very beginning of 2018, not long after the major solar eclipse, that an Arctic air mass from Greenland settled over most of the United States, for at least two weeks. That is very unusual in the south to go that long without getting above twenty degrees. At that time something caught my attention about Justice and "is Atlanta Atlantis?" which I am pulling from:


It is in Mahachohan's letter that emphatically and in no uncertain terms that the main spiritual obstacle for "Pelings" is not really about knowledge, it is racist attitudes and behavior.

And so, we know Atlanta is not an ancient city. I suppose it could be described as relatively modern. It definitely could be described as an area that definitely did have some indigenous inhabitants. And they were kicked out of their homes by railroad industrialists. There's no way around or out of that.

So, there was some kind of business plan to expand industry towards the midwest, and so on this occupied land, they manufactured a new city and gave it a pretty name. And then in only a few years, it, and most of the surrounding area, was destroyed by the United States Army. There isn't anything you can really do to get around that. Nor the fact that most of the industry goods were being produced by other people who were being owned like property, who, although they were numerically mostly of African origin, also included people such as the Irish, who were the trash of the slaves by the way they were usually treated. Undeniably, this is the type of environment generated on your occupied land. But they gave it a pretty name.

Despite the spelling, it has nothing to do with Atlantis.

No, it was a girl, Atalanta. For whatever reason, she has an obscure Greek goddess name, from "atalantos", equal in weight, related to "talantos", a scale or balance. So there, even if perhaps by accident, you have placed yourself under Virgo and her scale of justice, Libra. Because she is a virgin whose name is "balance", she's Virgo-Libra.

And further, if the claim that some of the first "Rosicrucians" had a few authentic manuscripts or Kalachakra-keys, which, for their own protection, they had to cloak in Christian garb, holds any weight--then this tract, for whatever reason, is inspired by that very same goddess, and for some reason, is not in every edition of the Theosophical Glossary:

Atalanta Fugiens (Lat.). A famous treatise by the eminent Rosicrucian Michael Maier; it has many beautiful engravings of Alchemic symbolism: here is to be found the original of the picture of a man and woman within a circle, a triangle around it, then a square: the inscription is, “From the first ens proceed two contraries, thence come the three principles, and from them the four elementary states ; if you separate the pure from the impure you will have the stone of the Philosophers”. [ w.w.w.]

Atalanta Fugiens text, an early multi-media intended to go with 50 fugues or pieces of music.


Atlanta really marks the beginning of what we would think of as U. S. Federal Empire. Around here they are thought of as rather like Ukranians. Since it is very easy to show continuity from one to the other, and, the other catches us at a point where, in this case, someone else appears to be doing something truer and more just, perhaps the Scales will do some Balancing now.


Or more simply, Ukraine reveals what we have been saying all along.




Natural Science was a vastly different order than the Dead Souls Science which replaced it all over Europe.


It is an import, since Alchemy is Persian, Egyptian, and Indian. Al khemt = "the black", i. e. the silt deposits of the yearly flooding of the Nile in Egypt.

I would say that the Qualities plus Alchemy are a close symbolic parallel of Buddhism, although they do not really have "practices". They are a statement about the same thing. Kind of a springboard.


In principle, the Earth Glyph is the Orb of Kings, such as that of the Holy Roman Empire:






In Buddhism, I guess we would describe that as the time when a person is observably saturated with Qualities. In our view, this is required to even attempt to meditate properly. So, firstly, it is just not abundant in all people, secondly, without training, it would be considered exoteric. Maybe it is like saying "qualified to" and unfortunately we know that most emperors and kings who held those orbs were not qualified.

Because we are not talking about temporal power, when a person qualifies and really does it, then he is the King, is the Conqueror.


So if alchemy is, roughly, a language of transmutation of the individual, then this at least represents that there is a Path. Because it is possible to do this intellectually or mechanically, then we assert that the cultivation of Qualities is essential. That is a fair example of what we might call basic training that is not necessarily averse to some non-Buddhist understandings.

[Journeyman]

I wanted to register my thanks for everyone contributing to this thread. This is one of the best discussions I've seen on this topic and I'm grateful to all concerned.