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Thread: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

  1. Link to Post #1921
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    "we are so stupid by now that we are cancelling the very character we have used to represent our own fake win in WW2, which allowed us to claim we were the saviors of the entire world"

    I don't think we have this kind of a national psyche any more.

    For example, I cannot remember a time on Independence Day, July 4, where anyone said anything like, "Well, Malisa, we defeated the British in our coon skin caps because..."

    There hasn't been any V Day where anything was said about WWII.

    There is no particular thing that could possibly apply to the Iraq or Afghan veterans.

    Outside of a few tv shows, and, perhaps, a minority who script their own version of these events to have a political party or something, none of those victories seem to register with anyone. Most places in Europe, you can hardly sit at a park bench without being next to a statue of an 1800s field marshal, and since there were a lot more European wars, people remain generally familiar with things back to Charlemagne. Here, any loud public fandango about defeating those evil Nazis and Japs faded out not really that long after it happened. I have never seen anything like what I have read about either Vietnam-era peace protests, or, that type of puffed up pride where you get to tell housewives that when they turn wrenches, they, too, are playing a role in overthrowing the Reich.

    For the most part, the public does not even seem interested in the "knight in armor" thing whether about Germany or anywhere else.

    The wave of censorship is insane.

    It is best to know both sides of a coin, or all sides of a sphere. And so I recently saw it explained by one of the foreigners who had entered Ukraine:


    This is the only place in the world where you can fight for White Supremacy using weapons.


    Although I am what most people would probably call a white person, and, the box I check is this or "Caucasian", irony unintentional, I have examined their policies and learned that I am actually mud. This puts me in the interesting position that white supremacy is actually weaponized against me. In that case, I guess that makes all forms of supremacy are. This brings things to the point that "that side" has self-declared itself as an enemy against me personally.

    I mean, if you are convinced you have purely Nordic genes and choose to only procreate with those who do, you could have that right. But, unless you do, you can be pretty sure how this Ukranian nationalism feels towards you.

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  3. Link to Post #1922
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    "we are so stupid by now that we are cancelling the very character we have used to represent our own fake win in WW2, which allowed us to claim we were the saviors of the entire world"

    I don't think we have this kind of a national psyche any more.

    For example, I cannot remember a time on Independence Day, July 4, where anyone said anything like, "Well, Malisa, we defeated the British in our coon skin caps because..."

    There hasn't been any V Day where anything was said about WWII.

    There is no particular thing that could possibly apply to the Iraq or Afghan veterans.

    Outside of a few tv shows, and, perhaps, a minority who script their own version of these events to have a political party or something, none of those victories seem to register with anyone. Most places in Europe, you can hardly sit at a park bench without being next to a statue of an 1800s field marshal, and since there were a lot more European wars, people remain generally familiar with things back to Charlemagne. Here, any loud public fandango about defeating those evil Nazis and Japs faded out not really that long after it happened. I have never seen anything like what I have read about either Vietnam-era peace protests, or, that type of puffed up pride where you get to tell housewives that when they turn wrenches, they, too, are playing a role in overthrowing the Reich.

    For the most part, the public does not even seem interested in the "knight in armor" thing whether about Germany or anywhere else.

    The wave of censorship is insane.

    It is best to know both sides of a coin, or all sides of a sphere. And so I recently saw it explained by one of the foreigners who had entered Ukraine:


    This is the only place in the world where you can fight for White Supremacy using weapons.


    Although I am what most people would probably call a white person, and, the box I check is this or "Caucasian", irony unintentional, I have examined their policies and learned that I am actually mud. This puts me in the interesting position that white supremacy is actually weaponized against me. In that case, I guess that makes all forms of supremacy are. This brings things to the point that "that side" has self-declared itself as an enemy against me personally.

    I mean, if you are convinced you have purely Nordic genes and choose to only procreate with those who do, you could have that right. But, unless you do, you can be pretty sure how this Ukranian nationalism feels towards you.
    I am so mixed my eyes look half japanese on one side and normal russian on the other side, i have a half japanese eye! lmao! This is not normal but also not weird, it's something that happens because of genetics or something, in "second class" or otherwise knowns as "people who were born from a japanese parent and a foreign" one. And this shows in that you lose the classical "japanese eyes" but sometimes only partially

    But what do i know

    Anyways, i talked about the WW2 thing here some time ago

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...22-Victory-Day


    Very honestly, the V day is not a celebration on the US because they know it was not their win. But still claim it to be in some cringe ways, It's all over the place

    Lots(most) of people in the US think the US single handedly won WW2
    Tired

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  5. Link to Post #1923
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    Lots(most) of people in the US think the US single handedly won WW2

    They might.


    Maybe it is just very detached. I just haven't noticed anyone at all that either says anything about Ukraine, or, the opposite, such as about how ridiculous sanctions are. Actually I was just told Russia has nothing to do with the price of gas. I had to say everything has to do with the price of gas because it is a market, and perception will set the price as much as physical factors.

    The people who care seem to consist of:


    British Nazis hate Russia, the country and resources, and American ones have picked this up

    Supremacists hate Russia, the people, for being multi-ethnic and mixed

    The Catholic Church hates Orthodoxy, the church of Russia


    Those are the hateful motives I have been able to figure out so far. I might just be fortunate that I am not surrounded by hateful people. I will bet a tooth that is still attached to my head that these three things describe the vast majority of what is going on.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by Malisa (here)
    Lots(most) of people in the US think the US single handedly won WW2

    They might.


    Maybe it is just very detached. I just haven't noticed anyone at all that either says anything about Ukraine, or, the opposite, such as about how ridiculous sanctions are. Actually I was just told Russia has nothing to do with the price of gas. I had to say everything has to do with the price of gas because it is a market, and perception will set the price as much as physical factors.

    The people who care seem to consist of:


    British Nazis hate Russia, the country and resources, and American ones have picked this up

    Supremacists hate Russia, the people, for being multi-ethnic and mixed

    The Catholic Church hates Orthodoxy, the church of Russia


    Those are the hateful motives I have been able to figure out so far. I might just be fortunate that I am not surrounded by hateful people. I will bet a tooth that is still attached to my head that these three things describe the vast majority of what is going on.
    Won't you come down and play with me?

    Tired

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  9. Link to Post #1925
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    A livestream update still in progress from The Duran, with a ton of intelligent commentary and informed speculation:



    Edit to add:
    Gonzalo Lira joins the livestream 30 minutes in. (Gonzalo did an excellent interview with Stott Ritter yesterday, posted here.)

    Another edit:

    This is a long one... 4 hours and still going. I'm only a couple of hours in (listening while multitasking!), but the discussion is the very highest quality and (to me) it's more than fascinating.
    I'm learning more about global finance, national economics, geopolitics, international diplomacy and European history from these guys than I ever could by reading any mainstream articles or listening to any politician.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 1st April 2022 at 16:47.

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  11. Link to Post #1926
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/scotthortonshow/...19835051941896

    On Antiwar Radio this week, Scott interviews Colonel Douglas Macgregor. Macgregor has recently been appearing on talk shows across the political spectrum, drawing on his deep experience as an officer and war planner to argue that Washington must prioritize peace in Eastern Europe. His arguments have drawn criticism from establishment lawmakers and their media allies who instead want to focus on hurting Russia. Macgregor lays out why this is a mistake and what Washington can do instead to bring about a quick end to this war. He also gives his account of where the war stands today. He argues that, despite what western media says, Ukraine has suffered a near-total defeat.
    Discussed on the show:
    “Is There A Path To Peace In Ukraine?” (The American Conservative)
    “Inside the Pentagon’s Fight Over Russia” (Politico)
    Douglas Macgregor, Col. (ret.) is a senior fellow with The American Conservative, the former advisor to the Secretary of Defense in the Trump administration, a decorated combat veteran, and the author of five books.
    "Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
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  13. Link to Post #1927
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/TheGrayzoneNews/...29538539552770



    Partnering with neo-Nazis in Ukraine: an inconvenient history
    ANTIWAR DOT COM·MARCH 31, 2022

    This article was originally published at Antiwar.com by Ted Snider

    Volodymyr Zelensky defeated Petro Poroshenko in the 2019 election on a platform that included making peace with Russia and signing the Minsk Agreements. The Minsk Agreements would have granted a degree of autonomy to the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of the Donbas that had voted for independence from Ukraine after the 2014 US backed coup put a government in power that was handpicked by the US and that was pro-West and anti-Russian. It was intense pressure from the far right wing ultra-nationalists that bent Zelensky from a Minsk backer into the shape of a Minsk rejecter. Under that pressure from neo-Nazi parties that have large power that is disproportionate to their small support, Zelensky abandoned his campaign peace promise and refused to talk to the leaders of the Donbas and implement the Minsk Agreements.

    Those ultranationalist organizations, including Svoboda Party and the Right Sector, during the 2014 coup, again cast a shadow much larger and darker than their popular support. They commandeered and reshaped the peaceful protest. They rejected the peaceful settlement that would have called for a ceasefire and early elections. Several lines of evidence now strongly suggest that the snipers in the February 20, 2014 massacre that sent the protests spinning toward civil war were not government forces but members of the ultranationalist insurgency. And it was they who occupied the government building and forced the elected president to flee Ukraine.

    After the coup, those neo-Nazi forces would brutally spearhead the fight against separatist forces in the Donbas. They were in a position to lead the fight because the most famous of them, the Azov Battalion, had been officially incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard. These ultranationalists had become, not only, as Richard Sakwa says in Frontline Ukraine, “a legitimate part of the Maiden [protest]” and “the new normal of Ukrainian state development,” they had become an official part of the Ukraine military.

    They would become an official part of Ukraine government too. Sakwa says that several core ministerial positions in the Ukrainian coup government were taken by the Right Sector and Svoboda, both openly neo-Nazi parties, including top national security, defense and legal posts. The deputy prime minister and the minister of justice were both members of Svoboda. Andriy Parubiy, one of the founders of Svoboda with what Sakwa calls “a long history of ultra-nationalist activism” became secretary of the National Security Defense Council. Sakwa calls Parubiy’s appointment “astonishing.”

    Stephen Cohen, who was Professor Emeritus of Russian studies and politics at Princeton, in an article on Ukraine called “America’s Collusion With Neo-Nazis,” says that the coup government in Ukraine has systematically rehabilitated and memorialized Ukrainian Nazi Germany collaborators. Among the Nazi collaborators memorialized by the government of Ukraine is Stepan Bandera who allied with the Nazis and committed atrocities against Jews, Poles and Russians. Sakwa reports that “a giant portrait of Bandera was . . . on the stage during the Maidan protests.”

    Stepan Bandera and the less known Mikola Lebed were prominent members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). In 1940, the OUN split, and Bandera became the leader of the more radical OUN-B faction. The Bandera OUN allied with the Nazis. And though the alliance may have been formed primarily on the opportunity to establish a Ukrainian state, Bandera’s OUN proved to be very willing collaborators.

    According to Sakwa, “Bandera espoused a virulent form of integral nationalism, an exclusive and ethnically centered definition of the Ukrainian nation, accompanied by the murderous denigration of those who allegedly undermined his vision, notably Poles, Jews and Russians. . . .” Bandera’s forces would participate in the mass killings of those people.

    In Covert Regime Change, Lindsey O’Rourke cites the July 1941 OUN-B declaration that Jews “have to be treated harshly. . . . We must finish them off. . . . Regarding the Jews, we will adopt any methods that lead to their destruction.” She says that “In the days following the German invasion, OUN-B troops launched pogroms throughout East Galacia, killing an estimated 12,000 Jewish civilians.

    The OUN-B and others would later join into the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) to fight for Ukrainian independence from both the Russians and the Nazis. To realize their dream of an ethnically exclusive nation, O’Rourke says they “engaged in widespread terrorism, mass killing, and ethnic cleansing amongst the Polish, German, Soviet, and Jewish populations in the region.” Their call was “Long live greater independent Ukraine without Jews, Poles and Germans: Poles behind the San, Germans to Berlin, Jews to the gallows.” OUN-A leader, Mikola Lebed declared, according to O’Rourke, that they should “cleanse the entire revolutionary territory of the Polish population.” And they tried. “In the first half of 1943, UPA partisans . . . murdered about 40,000 Poles in Volhynia.”

    But why would anyone get the idea today, among Putin’s perhaps exaggerated claim about denazifying the Ukrainian government and forces, that the US and its allies would partner with neo-Nazi elements in Ukraine in order to fight the Russians or bring about regime change in Russia? Because they have.

    Between Bandera and Lebed’s Nazi collaboration and the ultranationalist hijacking of the 2014 coup is a less told story of US and UK collaboration with Bandera and Lebed’s OUN to fight the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

    In September 1947, US intelligence encountered a group of Ukrainian partisans in Germany. In Safe for Democracy, CIA expert John Prados says the Ukrainian Supreme Liberation Council had ordered the partisans to go west “in order to get the attention of the Allied intelligence services.” It worked. And there began the top-secret story of the covert marriage between the US and UK and the Ukrainians who had collaborated with the Nazis in their Cold War fight against the Soviet Union.

    Even earlier, in 1946, Prados reports, the Soviets had demanded the extradition of Stepan Bandera. But in an operation code-named “Anyface,” US intelligence protected him even though they were in possession of information that potentially implicated him as a war criminal.

    The US and UK would then each choose a partner. After the initial US help, the UK would go on to work with Bandera and the OUN-B; the US would work with Mikola Lebed, the chief of the security branch of the OUN-B.

    In Legacy of Ashes: the History of the CIA, Tim Weiner says that “Nightingale was the code name of a Ukrainian resistance force [Secretary of Defense] Forestal had authorized to carry out a secret war against Stalin. Its leaders,” he says, “included Nazi collaborators who had murdered thousands of people. . . .” A 1947 US Counter Intelligence Corp. (CIC) report already notes the “close connection with the Bandera movement.”

    According to O’Rourke, in February 1947, Lebed “approached the CIC about the possibility of collaboration.” The CIC agreed, and, according to Weiner, the CIA smuggled Lebed into the US, telling US immigration officials that Lebed was “rendering valuable assistance to this Agency in Europe.”

    As was the case with Bandera, the CIA was not ignorant of Lebed’s past. Weiner says, “The agency’s own files described the Ukrainian faction led by Lebed as a ‘terrorist organization’.” And they knew Lebed had allied with the Nazis. “The Justice Department,” Weiner reports, “determined that he was a war criminal who had slaughtered Ukrainians, Poles, and Jews.” They even attempted to deport Lebed, but Allen Dulles intervened, telling the federal immigration commissioner that Lebed was “of inestimable value to this Agency.”

    A top-secret April 1948 CIA report to the National Security Council quoted by O’Rourke would outline the proposed Cold War collaboration with the ultranationalist Ukrainian Nazi collaborators and suggest “their possible value to the US Government for the purposes of propaganda, sabotage and anti-Communist political activity.”

    That operation would go on to receive the code name “Operation AERODYNAMIC” and would be launched by the CIA in 1948. O’Rourke quotes the CIA’s Frank Wisner as saying that “In view of the extent and activity of the resistance movement in Ukraine, we consider this to be a top priority project.” She cites a CIA document acquired under the Freedom of Information Act that reveals operational plans for “the exploitation and expansion of the Ukrainian resistance movement” for “political and psychological warfare [and] resistance and guerilla warfare.”

    Operation Aerodynamic was a failure, or “ill-fated and tragic,” as the CIA called it.

    The story of the OUN’s Nazi collaboration during World War II and the story of the ultranationalist role in the 2014 coup and the subsequent Ukrainian military and government have been told, though rarely by the mainstream media. But chronologically between those two events is the much less told story of the US and its allies partnering with Ukrainian ultranationalist Nazi collaborators to fight against the Soviet Union in the Cold War.

    Why would anyone believe that the US and its allies would collaborate with ultra-nationalists in Ukraine to fight the Russians? Because they have.

    https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/31/p...raine-history/
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    • Colbert Calls For Biden To Slap Reporters:

    Stephen Colbert earned his comedic bona fides by sending up the rich and powerful, perhaps most famously eviscerating the press to their faces from the lectern at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner in 2006. But now, as Colbert’s knee-jerk impulse to defend Joe Biden and Democrats becomes more evident every day, the once-great comedic mind has been reduced to yet another sh*tlib protecting his preferred wing of the oligarchy.
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    This is a 17 minute personal update from Alex Christoforou (one of the two The Duran presenters), on his own channel.

    The main topic he reports on was also discussed on The Duran's epic 4-hour video a few hours ago (see post #1925 above, when they were joined by Gonzalo Lira. This is the apparently urgent and frantic Ukrainian helicopter evacuation attempts to rescue a few besieged soldiers from Mariupol who were evidently of very great importance.

    The attempts failed. One helicopter was allowed to load up its evacuees and was THEN shot down with everyone apart from a couple of people killed. As Alex Christoforou states, there are videos out there which show all this in some gruesome detail.

    The fascinating and important question is who these people were. There are rumors swirling around that these were NATO troops, a US or UK SpecOps unit (like the Green Berets or SAS), or even senior US or NATO commanders.

    No doubt the truth will emerge in the next few days, even if as well-confirmed rumors, but rumors still. In the earlier 4-hour podcast, the three presenters speculated that because this is so incendiary (if NATO or the US were involved on the ground), both the Russians and the US would co-operate to cover this up so that the war did not escalate into WW3.

    The rest of the video is about whether the US can serenade India into not supporting Russia (using threats, always the best way to coax a nation to be friendly!), and finally about Latvia canceling the letter 'V' as well as the letter 'Z'. (No, not an April fool's joke. They're really, actually doing this.)


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  19. Link to Post #1930
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/statu...10902404206601


    https://twitter.com/business/status/1509964337804369922


    https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/s...31551312154624

    https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1509695133155209220
    Last edited by Ravenlocke; 2nd April 2022 at 01:06.
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  21. Link to Post #1931
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/sta...56302536454155


    https://twitter.com/A__Alimov/status...29168283930626


    https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1509735432149671942
    Last edited by Ravenlocke; 2nd April 2022 at 01:12.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    From Gerald Celente and his Trends Journal.

    Scott Ritter, the former Marine and U.N. weapons inspector who the New York Times called “the loudest and most credible skeptic of the Bush administration’s contention that Saddam Hussein’s government was hiding weapons of mass destruction," sat down with Gerald Celente for a candid interview about the Ukraine War.

    Celente said the interview provides “some of the most important, enlightening, passionate, truthful, informative insights that open-minded people will want to watch.”

    “Ritter provides unique information and insights that Trends Journalsubscribers who want to know and need to know what's going on, and what's next won't want to miss,” he said.

    Happiness comes from within, nowhere else.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/realGonzaloLira/...07142634766338


    https://twitter.com/Bronson00471184/...39065138106368
    Last edited by Ravenlocke; 2nd April 2022 at 02:41.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/spriter99880/sta...30506741665800



    https://twitter.com/spriter99880/sta...28352764895237


    https://twitter.com/idreesali114/sta...46206684192774
    Last edited by Ravenlocke; 2nd April 2022 at 01:59.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    The interview starts with a lengthy section in which Scott Ritter presents a summary of his career. At one point, he breezes past a quick moment when he describes how he was stationed as a weapons inspector in Russia for a two year period, which he said was "eye-opening". Then he quickly moved on, ending up talking about the history of the problems in Ukraine and the current military situation there. It was quite a monologue.

    At 25:05, Scott Ritter comes to a halt, and after joking with him that he's already answered all his questions, Gerald Celente — who is clearly a better interviewer than I'd thought — is inspired enough to ask him in what way his two years in Russia as a weapons inspector was "eye-opening".

    Wow. Folks, YOU MUST LISTEN TO THIS PART if you possibly can.

    His answer is about 10 mins long and worth every gold-plated second. It's one of the strongest pro-human, anti-war polemics I've ever heard, straight from the heart. It's emotional, but at the same time totally grounded, coming from someone whose attitudes were forged by hard-ass Marine Corps training.

    It totally stopped me in my tracks and compelled me to make this post. I can't possibly recommend those 10 minutes too highly.


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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Last edited by Rawhide68; 2nd April 2022 at 03:57.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    The attempts failed. One helicopter was allowed to load up its evacuees and was THEN shot down with everyone apart from a couple of people killed. As Alex Christoforou states, there are videos out there which show all this in some gruesome detail.


    Deep fog in this.

    It has been said there were up to five helicopters, and questioned as to why they should be attacked with Stingers.

    There are survivors, who give partial information at least of each one possibly carrying fourteen or fifteen people. At least two occupied ones were decisively shot, one without survivors. It may be possible that one or two escaped.

    One helicopter went down near Rybatskoye. The crew and passengers were found dead. The helicopter was tentatively identified as Mi-8MSB, tail number 864, of the Poltava 18th Aviation Brigade. The second one went up in smoke but continued on its way. Reports are now coming in that the landing site of the second helicopter has been found. There are three survivors from the crew and passengers of the second helicopter.


    ... we were shown uniform patches of Tanzania, SA, and Maroc (Morocco)


    Most of the rat commanders in Syria were American, British, and French. They work together although it also seems like they are doing separate things.


    At the moment it appears that the very fountain of violent hate is most deeply lodged in the British government, excerpting the header of a larger article from Lucas Leiroz from Brazil:

    According to The Times, Britain is “concerned” that the US, France, and Germany will pressure Ukraine to “settle” quickly and make significant concessions during the recent peace talks with Russia. An anonymous senior British government source reportedly said there were concerns that other Western countries were “eager” to secure a peace deal as soon as possible, encouraging Kiev to accept all Russian-imposed conditions.
    Last edited by shaberon; 2nd April 2022 at 05:45.

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    Honored, Retired Member. Hervé passed on 13 November 2024.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    ...

    ... from the Saker today:

    [...]

    Here is what the map of the area of operations looks like today:

    • The yellow circle is roughly the area where the outcome of this battle will be decided.
    • The small black arrow represents the likely Ukrainian effort to send in reinforcements
    • The big black arrow represents the move away from Kiev and towards the Donbass by Russian forces
    Speaking about maps: while they do, more or less, show the military reality on the ground, they do not show the political realities the same way. The truth is that there are plenty of towns and cities which are blocked/surrounded by Russian forces, but which are still run by the “old”, Nazi, authorities. Yes, the Russians could go in and denazify these town and cities manu militari, but that would take time, results in casualties on both sides and ruin the civilian infrastructure. And the Russians sure don’t want, say, Kharkov to become a 2nd Mariupol.

    [...]

    Full article: http://thesaker.is/day-36-of-the-rus...nian-military/

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia


    Twin towers windows look familiar to the Trident on the Ukraine
    flag
    Last edited by Catechism; 2nd April 2022 at 14:17.

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    Last edited by Catechism; 2nd April 2022 at 13:05.

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