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Thread: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Scott Ritter at his erudite best here in conversation with Cynthia Pooler.

    His interactions with women as evidenced in his regular meetings with Ania K nearly always sees a calmer, more measured Scott, as is often the case when opposite sexes engage - they can often bring out the best in each other I feel.

    Amongst other topics in this half hour discussion is a little on his appreciation for Russian art

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Today marks the 9th anniversary of the referendum in Crimea:

    Source: https://t.me/MFARussia/15182

    Text:
    🗓 Today is the 9th anniversary of the Crimean status referendum.

    On March 16, 2014, Crimeans made their historic choice on the basis of universal suffrage.

    ✅ The absolute majority of the peninsula’s residents, or 96.77 % with a turnout of 83 %, voted FOR the reunification with the Russian Federation.

    🇷🇺 Based on that free expression of will by the regions' population, Crimea and Sevastopol were acceded to the Russian Federation as its integral parts.

    🗳 The referendum was held according to international law and became the ultimate triumph of democracy.

    As many as 135 international observers from 23 countries as well as 1,240 representatives of local organisations were present during the vote and praised the preparations for and the implementation of the Crimean referendum.



    https://twitter.com/EvaKBartlett/sta...77103602589696




    https://www.mintpressnews.com/return...-since/262247/


    SIMFEROPOL, CRIMEA — In early August I traveled to Russia for the first time, partly out of interest in seeing some of the vast country with a tourist’s eyes, partly to do some journalism in the region. It also transpired that while in Moscow I was able to interview Maria Zakharova, spokeswoman of the Foreign Ministry.

    High on my travel list, however, was to visit Crimea and Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) — the former a part of Russia, the latter an autonomous republic in the east of Ukraine, neither accurately depicted in Western reporting. Or at least that was my sense looking at independent journalists’ reports and those in Russian media.

    Both regions are native Russian-speaking areas; both opted out of Ukraine in 2014. In the case of Crimea, joining Russia (or actually rejoining, as most I spoke to in Crimea phrased it) was something people overwhelmingly supported. In the case of the Donbass region, the turmoil of Ukraine’s Maidan coup in 2014 set things in motion for the people in the region to declare independence and form the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics.

    In March 2014, Crimeans held a referendum during which 96 percent of voters chose to join Russia. This has been heavily disputed in Western media, with claims that Crimeans were forced to hold the referendum and claims of Russian troops on the streets “occupying” the peninsula.

    Because Western media insisted the referendum was a sham held under duress, and because they bandy about the term “pro-Russian separatists” for the people of the DPR, I decided to go and speak to people in these areas to hear what they actually want and feel.



    FROM THE RUSSIAN MAINLAND TO THE CRIMEAN PENINSULA
    From St. Petersburg, where I spent a few touristy days, I booked a flight to Simferopol, the capital of Crimea, and on August 22 I landed at the attractive new airport. A Russian-American friend, Vlad, flies in from Moscow and together we rent a car and drive to Alushta, a tourist-packed seaside area to the south.

    As we drive from the airport, Vlad can’t get over the changes in the airport, which had been dank and barely functional when he last visited:

    When I came here at the end of 2014, Simferopol Airport was very dated: small and stuffy, low ceilings, small windows; the bathrooms didn’t work, there was a constant stench in the air, and many facilities weren’t working — even the baggage carousels didn’t work properly. There were no restaurants or cafes, and no places to rent taxis. Now, it’s a world-class international airport.”

    We drive south along smooth roads, passing endless vineyards on either side, flanked by low mountains. As Vlad drives, he comments on the condition of the roads, which five years prior were so rough “you had to swerve to dodge the potholes.”

    Descending to the coast, along cypress tree-lined streets, we arrive in the hub of Alushta, park, and stroll along the seaside. The beach scenes could be anywhere: people sunbathing and swimming, jet-skiing, drinking beer and eating. In the touristy hub before the beach, a carnival sort of feel and smell, a man playing the accordion, children’s rides, upscale restaurants, and fast-food stalls.

    As it happens, we arrive on Russia’s National Flag Day and while walking we come across a small event celebrating this with singers on stage and a crowd that, when we pass by again some hours later, has grown in size and enthusiasm.

    I remark on how kind and gentle people are here, just as in Russia. Vlad replies:

    It shouldn’t be surprising — people are people anywhere. But Western media conditions us with stereotypes of Russians as cold and hard, vilifying an entire nation.”

    The coastal city of Yalta lies further west along the peninsula. The drive there the following day is more beautiful still, the road flanked by mountains to one side, hills cascading down to the Black Sea on the other, endless wineries and, before Yalta itself, the stunning cliff-top castle known as “Swallow’s Nest.”

    In the evening, we stay in the home of Vlad’s friend Tata, a Russian woman who moved to Crimea in 2012.

    Since there was so much hype in Western media about a Russian takeover of the peninsula, I ask the burning questions: Were Crimeans forced to take part in the referendum? What was the mood like around that time? Tata replied:

    I never saw so many people in my life go out to vote, of their own free will. There was a period before the referendum, maybe about two months, during which there were two holidays: International Women’s Day, March 8, and Defender of the Fatherland Day, February 23.

    Normally, people would go away on vacation during these holidays. But that year, Crimeans didn’t go anywhere; they wanted to be sure they were here during the referendum. We felt the sense of a miracle about to happen. People were anxiously awaiting the referendum.

    There were military tents in the city, but they were not erected by the military, but by local men. They would stand there every day, and people could come and sign a document calling for a referendum.

    I went one day and asked if I could add my name but I couldn’t, because I have a Russian passport. Only Crimean citizens could sign it. This was the fair way to do it.

    At that time, my husband was in America. One day, he was watching CNN and got scared and called me because he saw reports of soldiers in the streets, an ‘invasion’ by Russia.

    The local navy came from Sevastopol to Yalta and anchored their ships off the coast, made a blockade to ensure no larger Ukrainian or other ships could come and attack.

    But I never saw tanks, I never saw Russian soldiers. I never saw any of that in the city.”

    I asked Tata about how life had changed after the referendum:

    When I came here in December 2012, everything was dilapidated and run down. The nice roads you were driving on, they didn’t exist when we were a part of Ukraine. I didn’t understand why Crimea was still a part of Ukraine. It was Russian land ever since the Tsars, the imperial time of Russia. This is where the Russian soul is, and the soul of the Russian navy.

    After the Soviet Union collapsed, it wasn’t the will of the Crimean people to join Ukraine. People were always Russian here; they always identified as Russian. Ukraine understood this well, and put nothing into Crimea, as punishment. Ukraine didn’t build any hospitals, kindergartens or roads.

    In the past four years, the Crimean government has built 200 new kindergartens. This is the most obvious example of how things have improved. They also built the new Simferopol airport.

    I worked in aviation. It took three years to build an airport of this standard in Yekaterinburg, Russia. It took half a year in Simferopol.”


    INTERNATIONAL JAZZ FESTIVAL
    On my third day in Crimea, we drive eastward anew, driving for hours through the gorgeous countryside, along winding and rolling roads flanked by jagged mountains, past an exceptionally beautiful church (Nicholas Church Lighthouse) overlooking the coast, and down along the sea through more touristy seaside towns and past lines of day tents along the beach. The local FM radio plays a variety of both Russian and Western songs.

    Finally, after night falls, we drive into the city of Koktebel, where an annual Jazz Festival is starting.

    During all these hours of driving, the roads are smooth and well-trafficked, and I don’t see a single Russian military vehicle.

    The next day, I walk through Koktebel, taking in the local markets brimming with produce, cheeses, and other goods, and every so often come across a streetside stand laden with fresh fruits. In the late afternoon, I walk along the sea, past packed beaches, and meet with a Crimean woman, Yaroslava, who lives in Austria but every summer returns to her beloved Crimea. She is ardently supportive of the decision to have joined Russia and spends much of her time back in Austria trying to educate people on why Crimeans wanted to be a part of Russia.

    These are reasons I hear throughout my travels in Crimea: We wanted to be able to speak our native language [Russian] and be educated in that language; we wanted to be able to practice our cultural traditions; we have always been a part of Russia and we wanted to return.

    Yaroslava is busy helping out with the Jazz Festival and wants to use the rest of our short time talking to help me arrange future meetings with people in Crimea. We decided to do a proper interview via Skype in the future when time allows.

    I drift on to the Jazz Festival, where a talented pianist and band play beach-side to an enthusiastic crowd. Some songs later, I drift back along the beach, passing numerous musicians busking, and a pulsing nightlife that isn’t going to bed any time soon.



    CONSTRUCTION EVERYWHERE
    On the fifth day, we drive back to Simferopol; Vlad is heading back to Moscow. As we drive, we see road work repeatedly, just as we had when driving from Simferopol south to Alushta: roads being widened, repaved; bridges being repaired or newly built. This is something I observed throughout my travels around Crimea. I remember Tata’s words about “everything being dilapidated” and have a hard time imagining that now with what I see.

    Vlad departs for Moscow, and I’m on my own now, traveling from the airport via public bus and minibus. At one point I ask a young couple, using Yandex translate, for directions. They get me on the right minibus and, following my route via Yandex maps, I get myself to Simferopol’s rail station and walk the half-hour to my nondescript hotel. I again need to ask locals for directions, as the unmarked hotel is in some parking lot behind a supermarket.

    I retrace my steps to the train station the next day and repeat the routine to buy a ticket for Sevastopol. The ticket is 119 rubles (just under $2). Over the next two hours on a slow train with wooden seats, I watch as more beautiful scenery and construction slide by.


    Arriving in Sevastopol, I leave the train station and hope to find some cafe where I can charge my phone, as I need it to navigate to the guesthouse where I’ve theoretically reserved a room online.

    As I stand to orient the map route and zoom in to look for any signs of cafes, a woman walks by me and says with a smile something with the word “shto,” which I think means “what.” When I reply in English, she laughs and flags down another woman, Yana, who speaks English well and insists she and her husband drive me.

    As we drive, we chat. I ask her about the referendum, mentioning that many in the West have the notion that it was done under duress, with a heavy military presence to influence the vote. She laughs, saying: “There were no troops, no military, around us during the referendum.” She speaks of the joy of Crimeans to vote, says that maybe 98 percent of Sevastopol voters had voted in favor [it was apparently 96 percent, but close enough], and adds, “We are now under the wing of Russia.”

    I ask about developments since then. She mentions the improvements in roads, also the modern trolley-buses and regular buses, the opening of kindergartens and schools, and free courses (like music) for children.

    We arrive at the remote guesthouse, where we realize that no one is home to give me a room. Yana mentions her parents have a guesthouse just outside the city and overlooking the bay. We drive to it, I meet the owners, charming people who set me up in a little apartment surrounded by fig and pear trees and with a small swimming pool to cool off in.

    They invite me for dinner, but I have to politely decline in order to get back to work, though I do take a few minutes to enjoy their pool, the stars, the silence, and the incredible fragrance of some night blossoms.

    The next few days, when not working on my laptop, I go for walks in the area, take in Sevastopol Bay, and one day take a minibus into the city and walk for hours around it, seeing some of the key sights.

    When I finally need to leave Sevastopol for Simferopol again, the couple refuses to take my money, insists I am their guest, and drives me to the bus station, stopping en route at a market where they search for ten minutes until they find the traditional Armenian treats they want to give me: walnuts covered in the syrup of various fruits (pomegranate, peach, currant, grape), and a box of walnut-stuffed dried figs.



    UKRAINIANS IN CRIMEA
    In Simferopol anew, I meet Anastasiya Gridchina, the Chair of the Ukrainian Community of Crimea, an organization formed in 2015 whose main goals, she tells me, “are to have friendly relations between two great peoples: Ukrainians and Russians — not the politicians but the people. The second goal is to preserve inter-ethnic peace in the Republic between different nationalities.”

    Gridchina explains that in Crimea there are more than 175 nationalities, just 20 less than in all of Russia, but in a very small territory. Hence the importance of preserving inter-ethnic peace. After Russians, Ukrainians comprise the second largest population in Crimea.

    I asked Anastasiya whether she supported, much less participated in the referendum.

    I worked very hard in order that we could have a referendum. I live in Perevalne, the last settlement in the mountains above Alushta. There was a Ukrainian military detachment which did surrender. In February 2014, I was among a line of people standing between the Ukrainian and Russian military detachments, to prevent any bloodshed. The fear that prevailed at that time was that nationalists from Ukraine would come here and we would have massacres.

    In February, there was a confrontation outside the Parliament here in Simferopol. It was organized by leaders of the Mejlis — the Crimeans Tatars. On the other side, there were some pro-Russia organizations who were protecting the Parliament. They were far less [numerous] than the Mejlis. The Mejlis were armed with sticks and knives. There were clashes and two people were killed, but thankfully it didn’t escalate beyond that.

    When the news came that there would be a referendum, people relaxed. They had a chance to express their point of view and 96 percent of the population of Crimea voted for Crimea to return to Russia.”

    Since she is Ukrainian, I asked Anastasiya why she wanted Crimea to join Russia:

    I’ve lived in Crimea all my life, and my language is Russian. And I know the history of Crimea, which has always been Russian territory, which has a history beginning with the Russian Empire and then the Soviet Union. So, it is Russian-speaking territory, first of all. That’s why I believe it should be in the Russian Federation, not in Ukraine.”


    I asked about the claims that Russian soldiers invaded Crimea:

    Whatever they might have said about Russian soldiers forcing people to participate in the referendum, it was all lies, pure lies. We did not see any soldiers on the streets, especially on the day of the referendum.

    I gave an interview to foreign journalists before the referendum. But when they published it, they changed my words. I said we were very thankful to the Russian troops that were here, that protected us from the attacks of Ukrainian nationalists prior to the referendum. But they translated it that I said ‘Please, we want Ukrainian soldiers to defend us from those Russian soldiers.’

    The Russian troops that were here were not on the streets on the day of the referendum but, at the time in general, they were there to protect civilians from an attack by Ukrainians.

    On the day of the referendum, there were no soldiers, no military. The only security were there to prevent any illegal actions. No military people were there, no arms, no armored personnel carriers, no military equipment, nothing. Only members of the election commission and the people voting.”

    I asked whether many Ukrainian Crimeans left following the referendum:

    There were those who immediately after the referendum left Crimea for Ukraine because it was their personal wish. Nobody prevented them from going. Even the soldiers had an option: to stay and continue military service here, or to leave.

    There were also some people who didn’t like that Crimea joined Russia, but didn’t leave for pragmatic reasons. Because the quality of life in Russia is much higher than in Ukraine. So they continue living in Crimea.”

    Finally, Anastasiya gave me a message for the people outside of Crimea:

    I’d like to tell people around the world, welcome to Crimea, come here yourselves and see and hear with your own eyes and ears, to understand that all the lies you hear about Crimea, that we are oppressed or under pressure from the military…this is all lies, this is all not true.

    Also, that we are not allowed to speak Ukrainian is a lie. One of the state languages is Ukrainian. Russian and Tatar are also state languages.”

    As she leaves to go to the Ukrainian festival she has helped organize, she notes that the government allotted part of its budget towards financing the festival. She invites me to join. “You can see us singing Ukrainian songs, see our culture and traditions preserved.”

    Next, I speak to Yuri Gempel, a member of Parliament, and the chairman of the Standard Commission on Inter-Ethnic Relations of the Parliament of Crimea.

    Crimea, under Ukraine, was robbed,” Gempel says. He continues:

    Everything was taken by the government and representatives of the ruling elite of Ukraine. For the 23 years Crimea was a part of Ukraine, they robbed Crimea. Not a single kindergarten was built in Crimea during those years. Kindergartens built during Soviet times stopped functioning.

    But the main issue is that during that time, the people still felt themselves to be in Russian territory, not Ukrainian, in language, culture and in spirit. Under Ukrainian rule, Crimeans were made to speak Ukrainian, although Crimeans’ native language is Russian. People were deprived of the right to be in state service if they did not speak Ukrainian.”

    I ask Yuri how things changed after the referendum:

    After Crimea returned to Russia, an electric line exploded in Ukrainian territory and Crimeans were without electricity. Russia very quickly repaired and improved the electricity situation. We were also cut from water and food supplies immediately after Crimea returned to Russia.

    As a result of the water shortage, we had to reform our agricultural production. We don’t produce rice now, because we don’t have enough water. But we grow wheat and other grains. And we introduced modern agricultural technologies, like drip irrigation. Now the economic situation has improved, and in some respects is much better than it was before.”

    I then inquire about the 2014 clashes outside the Parliament, which Anastasiya Gridchina had mentioned:

    I know the Chairman of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People, Refat Chubarov, personally. I was there at the confrontation between the Mejlis people and pro-Russian groups at the entrance of the Parliament. I’m absolutely sure that Chubarov and his colleagues provoked the confrontations in which seventy were wounded and two were killed. It is their fault that anyone was wounded and killed. The main goal of the confrontation was to prevent the session in Parliament from happening; the points of the agenda of that session were about the referendum.”

    I ask Yuri about another issue Western media refers to in its Crimea coverage: the alleged discrimination against the ethnic Tatars. Gempel imparts to me a history lesson:

    In 1944, 190,000 Crimean Tatars were deported from Crimea; this was the largest ethnic group deported. Also Armenians, Germans, Greeks, Bulgarians.

    In the over 23 years Crimea was in Ukraine, the various ethnic groups demanded the government issue a decree to rehabilitate those deported people.

    In April 2014, after Crimea joined Russia, President Putin immediately issued a decree regarding the deported people. After the decree was issued, a federal program was adopted, with a budget of 10 billion rubles, which included building multi-storey buildings and improving the infrastructure in the areas returned deportees live in. The amount of money is much more than what was given by Ukraine in the 23 years that Crimea was part of Ukraine.”

    Tatars make up around 11 percent of the population, Gempel tells me, but “have representatives in all branches of power in Crimea, including legislative and in the Parliament.” As Anastasiya Gridchina mentioned, Tatar is one of the three state languages, after a resolution on this was adopted by Parliament.

    Standing outside the Parliament, where the 2014 clashes occurred, Gempel explains where he was at the time, and says there were no Russian soldiers or tanks. Then laughing, he points toward a tank monument in a park nearby: “There was only that tank. It’s been here since 1944.”

    Although I want to stay for the Ukrainian festival, I’m heading to the Donetsk People’s Republic in the coming days, so instead I take yet another bus ride, this one a four-hour-long ride eastward to Kerch, the city from which the next day I am to cross the Crimean bridge back to the mainland.

    I decide to use a ride-share program and arrange to join a car going early the next morning from Kerch and on to Rostov-on-Don, from where I will go westward to Donetsk.

    We cross the impressive 17 km-long bridge. It is early morning and is also the day before children return to school, so the bridge isn’t busy. However, by early October, 6.6 million tourists have already visited Crimea, said to be a 10 percent increase from last year, and I can see why.

    Having spent over a week traveling by car and local transport in this utterly beautiful setting, I know I will be returning to Crimea when the opportunity affords itself.

    As for the claims that Russia invaded Crimea and of Russian forces intimidating voters, I believe the many people I met who denounced those claims and articulated very clearly why they wanted to join Russia, or as they say, “return to Russia.”

    Feature photo | Crimeans gather with Russian national and Crimea flags in Sevastopol, Crimea, March 14, 2018. Alexander Zemlianichenko | AP

    Eva Bartlett is a Canadian independent journalist and activist. She has spent years on the ground covering conflict zones in the Middle East, especially in Syria and occupied Palestine, where she lived for nearly four years. She is a recipient of the 2017 International Journalism Award for International Reporting, granted by the Mexican Journalists’ Press Club (founded in 1951), was the first recipient of the Serena Shim Award for Uncompromised Integrity in Journalism, and was short-listed in 2017 for the Martha Gellhorn Prize for Journalism. See her extended bio on her blog In Gaza.

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  5. Link to Post #8743
    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Crimean MP: “Crimea Under Ukraine Was Robbed"


    In Simferopol, Crimea, in August, I met with Yuri Gempel, a Member of Parliament, and the Chairman of the Standard Commission on Inter-Ethnic Relations of the Parliament of Crimea.

    Excerpt from our conversation:

    “Crimea, under Ukraine, was robbed,” Gempel says. “Everything was taken by the government and representatives of the ruling elite of Ukraine. For the 23 years Crimea was a part of Ukraine, they robbed Crimea. Not a single kindergarten was built in Crimea during those years. Kindergartens built during Soviet times stopped functioning.

    But the main issue is that during that time, the people still felt themselves to be in Russian territory, not Ukrainian, in language, culture and in spirit. Under Ukrainian rule, Crimeans were made to speak Ukrainian, although Crimeans' native language is Russian. People were deprived of the right to be in state service if they did not speak Ukrainian.”


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    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/st...70620429770752


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  9. Link to Post #8745
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Arguably a very impressive improvisation by the Su-27's pilot. None of this would have ever have been trained for, and now they know this clever manoeuver will work, we might watch to see if this happens again.

    https://t.me/intelslava/45891
    https://t.me/intelslava/45893



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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Clare Daly here from March 15th plenary in the EU Parliament, could bring down a Reaper drone

    Last edited by Tintin; 16th March 2023 at 14:49.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Honored, Retired Member. Hervé passed on 13 November 2024.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    ...

    ... some people can think on their feet... that pilot can think on the tips of its wings

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Pam (here)
    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    Since the millenium, we have entered the era of domination by Sorath - who is consuming Ahriman, as Ahriman consumed Lucifer
    .
    Do you know what? I'm really glad you're here

    I'd drawn the same conclusion a wee while back, but I hadn't until now factored in the Sorathic element. A BIG thanks for supplying the hitherto missing prong in the unholy trifecta/tripod
    Thanks for your thanks!

    I was a bit uneasy about publishing; but the fact that this 'trifecta/ tripod' was useful for you, justifies it for me.
    Bruce, I deeply appreciated your explanation as well, as a student of Rudolph Steiner, and not an organized student of his work I have really only gone as far as Ahriman. But what we are seeing now is absolute insanity, a force that seeks destruction of everything. I would love to hear more from you. Welcome to the forum.
    Pam - Thanks for your comment.

    I have read and pondered Steiner a good deal, and regard him as one of the most important thinkers of modern times, especially for his early philosophical books; despite that I am very selective in my appreciation. I tend to home-in on particular insights of his, and then try to interpret and expand upon them.

    I have had a good deal of insight from a modern English anthroposophist called Terry Boardman - it was from him I first heard about Steiner's idea of Sorath/ Sorathic evil. Here is an example of Boardman's work, from three years ago - a fascinating overview in which he predicted the current global war.

    He discusses three possible impending major crises from the most immediate to more delayed.

    Most immediate he says is a superpower war between the US and China/ Russia.

    Then by the middle of the century a crisis of attempted transhumanism, artificial intelligence, the replacement of minds with computation.

    In the longer term of several decades- a century, an environmental crisis of pollution and resource depletion (NOT climate change):



    He has also done a very detailed and scholarly analysis of the long term antagonism between the Anglosphere and Russia:

    http://threeman.org/?page_id=18
    Last edited by Bruce G Charlton; 16th March 2023 at 20:12.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    View from space. Ships of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy at the crash site of the American reconnaissance and strike UAV MQ-9 Reaper in the Black Sea off the coast of Crimea.

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia



    15 March 2023 20:20

    Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s answers to questions from the Moscow.Kremlin.Putin TV show, March 15, 2023
    478-15-03-2023

    Question: Could you comment on the recent US drone incident?

    Sergey Lavrov: Our military have given their assessment which was related by our ambassador in Washington Anatoly Antonov. He explained to journalists and others how we see it from a global security standpoint. He was summoned to the US State Department, where he was presented with totally unfounded claims about violations of the freedom of air. You have heard the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs of Staff saying that the United States will continue to fly wherever it pleases “in accordance with international law.” But if we follow this logic, the space around the US has the same status as the space over the Black Sea.

    In doing so, they completely ignore the fact that after the start of the special military operation our military declared the relevant areas of the Black Sea adjacent to the shore in certain places to have a restricted status for the use of any aircraft. The defiant disregard for this objective fact suggests that the United States is constantly trying to create some kind of provocation to fuel confrontational thinking. This is not good. They constantly say that they are a responsible power interested in strategic stability. Secretary of State Antony Blinken told me this at the meeting in India. But their words are at odds with their deeds.

    Question: What does it imply for global security?

    Sergey Lavrov: As far as global security is concerned, any incident that triggers a clash between two of the great, major nuclear powers carries very serious risks. They surely realise this.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    The Eastern European NATO countries seem to be the 'real' war mongers now. I'm a little surprised at this analysis but it seems true. Poland is the worst among them, they also seem to have many many mercenaries in Ukraine. The West seems to slowly move towards a negotiation between Ukraine and Russia.

    https://www-anti--spiegel-ru.transla..._x_tr_pto=wapp

    The division of Europe and the question of peace negotiations

    A dispute is brewing in the EU between “old” and “new” Europe over the issue of support for Ukraine. In addition, peace negotiations between Kiev and Moscow are being discussed more and more openly.

    In connection with the new legend about the “pro-Ukrainian group” that is now said to have blown up the Nord Streams, I keep reminding myself of the RAND Corporation paper from January 2023, in which RAND asked the US government to in Ukraine "to avoid a long war". However, RAND sees the main problem in explaining the “dramatic change in US policy” to the public and “allies” .

    With the US government implementing almost all of RAND's foreign policy recommendations, I expected that sometime after around March, April, or May, you would find statements in the media that no longer advocated "unconditional support for Ukraine as long as it needs it." speak out, but that voices are getting louder that demand peace negotiations from Kiev.

    These voices can actually be found – parallel to the new Nord Stream legend – as an analysis by the Russian news agency TASS shows, which deals with the dispute in Europe over support for Ukraine. So I translated the TASS analysis .

    Start of translation:

    How the confrontation with Russia is dividing Europe

    Arms supplies to Ukraine and pressure on Russia have become a stumbling block for European states. The differences are particularly clear in Warsaw and Berlin, where tensions over the issue of aid to Ukraine are increasing every day. As Eastern Europe and the Baltic states call for Russia's dismantling, the West is softening its rhetoric and preparing the ground for negotiations. TASS reports what different parts of Europe want and why their positions differ.

    The conflict between Berlin and Warsaw

    Recently, the media have increasingly drawn attention to the tensions between Poland and Germany that have arisen over the background of aid to Ukraine. The controversy, which, according to the Bloomberg agency, has reached a new level, is related to the delivery of missiles, tanks and spare parts to Kiev. In particular, Bloomberg cites Poland's accusations against Germany for not agreeing to the delivery of Leopard tanks to Ukraine. On Jan. 18, six days before receiving German approval, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said in an interview with Polsat TV that Warsaw will not wait for Berlin's approval. "Either we'll get that permission quickly or we'll do it our way," he said.

    And even after the permit was granted, Poland continued to accuse Germany of insufficient support for Ukraine. On February 9, Morawiecki said in an interview with the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera that Berlin was talking about more help than there actually was. And even if Germany gives Ukraine as much as it promises, this is "a drop in the ocean". He thinks it is necessary to ask more from one of the strongest European countries.

    Warsaw's main demand on Berlin is that it must supply Kiev with spare parts for the Leopard 2-A4. Germany itself has decided to deliver 18 modern Leopard 2-A6 main battle tanks from the Bundeswehr stock to Ukraine. At the same time, as Mariusz Blaszczak, the Republic's Defense Minister, pointed out, Poland is responsible for forming a coalition of countries that will deliver the Leopard 2-A4. This coalition consists of eight Norwegian, as many Canadian and six Spanish tanks, as well as support vehicles for tank battalions - this is Finland's area of ​​responsibility. Poland itself has announced that it will provide Ukraine with 14 Leopard 2 A4s, the first four of which were delivered on February 24.

    German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said in an interview with the Washington Post on February 16 that the Bundeswehr has no spare parts for the Leopard 2-A4. “That has to be negotiated with the industry. All partners are always happy to refer to Germany. Although Germany is the location for Leopard production, it is carried out by private companies. The Bundeswehr has not used the Leopard 2-A4 for many years," said the German Defense Minister. That is, the country has "almost nothing" for these tanks, "no spare parts, at most some ammunition".

    Shortly after the statement, Polish President Andrzej Duda himself spoke on the subject in an interview with CNN. “Honestly, we have serious problems with spare parts for tanks. The spare parts are only made in Germany, so this is a fairly common problem. Other countries also have these difficulties, because Germany has serious problems with spare parts," he said.

    The media's focus on the Berlin-Warsaw dialogue is because their disagreements threaten to disrupt the delivery of arms and military equipment to Kiev. According to Bloomberg, which cites an unnamed official, Warsaw believes that “Germany is more focused on competing with Poland to be lauded by international actors <…> than on giving Kiev everything it has needs."

    The New York Times reported in December that strained relations between the two countries were worsening the situation within NATO. The tensions arose against the background of the possible delivery by Berlin of the Patriot missile defense system to Warsaw. As the newspaper noted, the problems arose from Germany's offer to supply Patriot systems to Poland, which the Polish side initially agreed to, but later insisted on stationing the batteries in western Ukraine. For Germany, this option is unacceptable because "NATO personnel would operate the systems". However, the German Ministry of Defense later stated that Berlin and Warsaw had reached an agreement on the deployment of Patriot systems in Poland.
    Attempts to stop Poland and the Baltic States

    In the midst of the Ukraine conflict, Poland is using the harshest rhetoric against Russia. As Morawiecki noted in the interview with Corriere della Sera, if all countries of the world had reacted to the start of the Russian military operation "as quickly and decisively" as Poland, Ukraine "today" would be "much closer" to victory. In his opinion, under the current circumstances "everyone should be aware that it is impossible to return to the pre-war situation". He pointed out that Warsaw has already delivered "a large amount of military equipment" and that the decision to give fighter jets to Ukraine "depends on NATO". The Prime Minister drew attention to the fact that there were no agreements in this regard, but urged the allies not to rule anything out, otherwise they would "only strengthen Moscow".

    Radical anti-Russian rhetoric is also being used by the Baltic states, which are calling for Russia's exclusion from various international organizations and for tougher sanctions against the country.

    On February 21, the head of the Lithuanian delegation to the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, Vilija Aleknaite-Abramikiene, announced Lithuania's intention to boycott the session of the Parliamentary Assembly because Russian representatives are allowed to attend it. In addition, Vilnius called on the Baltic states, Nordic countries and Poland to reach a common position on attending the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly session if Russian representatives are admitted, but no unanimous decision has been made yet.

    Latvia is no less categorical towards Russia. Latvian Foreign Minister Edgar Rinkevich said in January that it was in Riga's strategic interest to seek a Russian defeat in Ukraine.

    At the end of last year, Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Reinsalu called for a complete isolation of the Russian financial system. In his opinion, the EU should "go much further" in supporting Kiev and isolating Moscow. In June, Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas called on the West to completely sever relations with Russia over the situation in Ukraine. “There is no reason to go back to business as usual. What's more, there shouldn't be any shops at all. Therefore, we must continue to isolate the aggressor both economically and politically. Economic isolation means we need to shut down the Russian military machine by making sure the Russian troops run out of equipment and the Kremlin runs out of money,” the Estonian PM said.

    In addition, in 2022, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and the Czech Republic accused Russia of terrorism or its support.

    The aggressive rhetoric of the so-called new Europe met with little enthusiasm in the western part. Thierry Mariani, Member of the European Parliament from France's Nationale Union party, said in an interview with Valeurs Actuelle that the EU's massive eastward enlargement was ill-conceived and hasty: it made the Union dependent on its new members. "Rather than following the views of, for example, the southern European, Latin world, which historically is not hostile to Russia and strives for the common good, Brussels has made itself dependent on the eastern European states," said the MEP. In his opinion, historically speaking, the “new Europe” seems to have “condemned itself to hostility towards Russia”.

    It is important to note that even before the start of the military operation in Ukraine, relations between Russia and Eastern Europe were quite tense. The confrontation between the countries had more to do with the history of the Great Patriotic War: the sides periodically accused each other of rewriting it.

    Moreover, in recent years Poland and the Baltic States have regularly claimed that there is some threat from Russia. Moscow has repeatedly criticized such claims. Russian Presidential Press Secretary Dmitry Peskov called this position "illogical and harmful" because by claiming an alleged threat, these states are accumulating NATO troops on their territory. “These countries are both talking about the danger and harboring foreign forces, putting themselves at greater risk. And on top of that, they refuse to engage in dialogue,” says Peskow.

    Now, young Europeans have gone so far that the Wall Street Journal reported that US President Joe Biden pressured Baltic leaders during a visit to Poland because they frequently called for Russia's defeat in the Ukraine conflict. According to the Journal's source, the US leader's words made his Baltic counterparts question whether Washington sees Russia's defeat in the Ukraine conflict as a realistic goal.
    reason for negotiations

    Against this backdrop, the Wall Street Journal writes, Kiev's close allies in Eastern Europe are concerned about growing speculation in Western capitals that Ukraine should eventually prepare for negotiations with Russia.

    Western Europe is indeed adopting a softer rhetoric towards Russia. French President Emmanuel Macron declared in February that his country had never advocated victory over Russia and never will. Throughout the conflict he spoke of the need to sit down at the negotiating table. In addition, the French leader is sticking to his position that Russia must receive security guarantees after the end of the conflict in Ukraine.

    German Chancellor Olaf Scholz also said in February that he would continue to seek dialogue with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the situation in Ukraine, even though the time for talks had not yet come. He urged hope that "one day the moment will come when honest negotiations leading to acceptable, correct results for Ukrainians will actually become possible."

    According to the Wall Street Journal, Macron and Scholz have already urged Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky to explore the idea of ​​talks with Russia. According to the newspaper, the French president told his Ukrainian counterpart that sooner or later he would have to "show political wisdom and make difficult decisions".

    The EU itself is already speaking of a degree of conflict fatigue and depletion of military reserves due to aid to Ukraine. The New York Times also wrote that two-thirds of NATO countries had exhausted their weapons capacities.

    Against this background, the Bild newspaper reported that the West could force Ukraine to open a dialogue with Russia if an attempt at an offensive by autumn 2023 fails. “The delivery of new weapons will give Ukraine a chance to regain control of more territories before the fall. If the counter-offensive fails, the pressure will increase to start negotiations with the Kremlin,” argues Bild.

    As the newspaper notes, such an ultimatum for Zelensky is being discussed behind the scenes, although the West has officially pledged continued support to Ukraine for as long as it needs it.

    end of translation

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/Trollstoy88/stat...01716353531905



    https://twitter.com/thesiriusreport/...84962637856769


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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status...62755107557376




    Too big to fail Credit Suisse


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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    Quote Posted by Pam (here)
    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    Since the millenium, we have entered the era of domination by Sorath - who is consuming Ahriman, as Ahriman consumed Lucifer
    .
    Do you know what? I'm really glad you're here

    I'd drawn the same conclusion a wee while back, but I hadn't until now factored in the Sorathic element. A BIG thanks for supplying the hitherto missing prong in the unholy trifecta/tripod
    Thanks for your thanks!

    I was a bit uneasy about publishing; but the fact that this 'trifecta/ tripod' was useful for you, justifies it for me.
    Bruce, I deeply appreciated your explanation as well, as a student of Rudolph Steiner, and not an organized student of his work I have really only gone as far as Ahriman. But what we are seeing now is absolute insanity, a force that seeks destruction of everything. I would love to hear more from you. Welcome to the forum.
    Pam - Thanks for your comment.

    I have read and pondered Steiner a good deal, and regard him as one of the most important thinkers of modern times, especially for his early philosophical books; despite that I am very selective in my appreciation. I tend to home-in on particular insights of his, and then try to interpret and expand upon them.

    I have had a good deal of insight from a modern English anthroposophist called Terry Boardman - it was from him I first heard about Steiner's idea of Sorath/ Sorathic evil. Here is an example of Boardman's work, from three years ago - a fascinating overview in which he predicted the current global war.

    He discusses three possible impending major crises from the most immediate to more delayed.

    Most immediate he says is a superpower war between the US and China/ Russia.

    Then by the middle of the century a crisis of attempted transhumanism, artificial intelligence, the replacement of minds with computation.

    In the longer term of several decades- a century, an environmental crisis of pollution and resource depletion (NOT climate change):



    He has also done a very detailed and scholarly analysis of the long term antagonism between the Anglosphere and Russia:

    http://threeman.org/?page_id=18
    Thank you Bruce G Charlton. I am interested in your thoughts about evil.

    I have a question however, which dovetails with other concerns I have with certain forms of philosophical thinking.

    To contextualise my question: You have identified a third level of evil and describe it quite eloquently as a desire for annihilation. Then you call it Sorathic evil, for which you borrow a term from Steiner, however not using it in the meaning which Steiner attributes to that angel name (I am referring to your own presentation of this borrowing — I have hardly read Steiner but a few utterances on the other two levels of evil I did happen to read).

    My question is: what does calling this evil "Sorathic” add to its definition as a desire for utter destruction?
    A corollary: what does it add to the understanding of Steiner’s thoughts about evil?

    My main philosophical concern is that we should always aspire at understanding the meanings of words, phrases, texts – “meaning” understood as “what is meant by them” – and that this understanding is best done by the full spectrum of human faculties: to quote a few well-known, and in my opinion useful, descriptions of that "full spectrum”: the body/soul/spirit triad (phusis/psuchè/pneuma) or the seven-chakra system. (The Sephirot tree is another one, maybe unnecessarily complicated, which is somewhat proven by the fact that it can best be understood by means of the previous two).

    I do not want to open a polemics with you but am just interested in hearing your answer and then I would prefer to go back to topic. Thank you in advance for your reply.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Michel Leclerc (here)
    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    Quote Posted by Pam (here)
    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    Since the millenium, we have entered the era of domination by Sorath - who is consuming Ahriman, as Ahriman consumed Lucifer
    .
    Do you know what? I'm really glad you're here

    I'd drawn the same conclusion a wee while back, but I hadn't until now factored in the Sorathic element. A BIG thanks for supplying the hitherto missing prong in the unholy trifecta/tripod
    Thanks for your thanks!

    I was a bit uneasy about publishing; but the fact that this 'trifecta/ tripod' was useful for you, justifies it for me.
    Bruce, I deeply appreciated your explanation as well, as a student of Rudolph Steiner, and not an organized student of his work I have really only gone as far as Ahriman. But what we are seeing now is absolute insanity, a force that seeks destruction of everything. I would love to hear more from you. Welcome to the forum.
    Pam - Thanks for your comment.

    I have read and pondered Steiner a good deal, and regard him as one of the most important thinkers of modern times, especially for his early philosophical books; despite that I am very selective in my appreciation. I tend to home-in on particular insights of his, and then try to interpret and expand upon them.

    I have had a good deal of insight from a modern English anthroposophist called Terry Boardman - it was from him I first heard about Steiner's idea of Sorath/ Sorathic evil. Here is an example of Boardman's work, from three years ago - a fascinating overview in which he predicted the current global war.

    He discusses three possible impending major crises from the most immediate to more delayed.

    Most immediate he says is a superpower war between the US and China/ Russia.

    Then by the middle of the century a crisis of attempted transhumanism, artificial intelligence, the replacement of minds with computation.

    In the longer term of several decades- a century, an environmental crisis of pollution and resource depletion (NOT climate change):



    He has also done a very detailed and scholarly analysis of the long term antagonism between the Anglosphere and Russia:

    http://threeman.org/?page_id=18
    Thank you Bruce G Charlton. I am interested in your thoughts about evil.

    I have a question however, which dovetails with other concerns I have with certain forms of philosophical thinking.

    To contextualise my question: You have identified a third level of evil and describe it quite eloquently as a desire for annihilation. Then you call it Sorathic evil, for which you borrow a term from Steiner, however not using it in the meaning which Steiner attributes to that angel name (I am referring to your own presentation of this borrowing — I have hardly read Steiner but a few utterances on the other two levels of evil I did happen to read).

    My question is: what does calling this evil "Sorathic” add to its definition as a desire for utter destruction?
    A corollary: what does it add to the understanding of Steiner’s thoughts about evil?

    My main philosophical concern is that we should always aspire at understanding the meanings of words, phrases, texts – “meaning” understood as “what is meant by them” – and that this understanding is best done by the full spectrum of human faculties: to quote a few well-known, and in my opinion useful, descriptions of that "full spectrum”: the body/soul/spirit triad (phusis/psuchè/pneuma) or the seven-chakra system. (The Sephirot tree is another one, maybe unnecessarily complicated, which is somewhat proven by the fact that it can best be understood by means of the previous two).

    I do not want to open a polemics with you but am just interested in hearing your answer and then I would prefer to go back to topic. Thank you in advance for your reply.
    Dear Bruce, Miller, Pam, Tintin, Michel (sorry if I forgot somebody)

    Thanks for your information about Sorath, Ahriman and so on. Very interesting indeed.

    If you allow me to express my humble opinion, I would like to let you know that I truly feel that your discussion about Sorath, Ahriman, the teachings of Steiner etc, merit a separate thread. My feeling is, that the information you have exchanged in this thread is valuable for many other threads.
    Therefore, a separate thread might make sense

    kind regards,

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Scott Ritter cuts Lindsey Graham a new one in this scalding assessment of him.

    https://t.me/ScottRitter/962

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 17th March 2023 at 14:01. Reason: embedded the telegram

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  33. Link to Post #8757
    England Avalon Member
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    I agree this topic would be better covered as a separate thread - but, as a newish arrival, I can't work-out how to start one.

    Advice please?

    Bruce

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    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
    I agree this topic would be better covered as a separate thread - but, as a newish arrival, I can't work-out how to start one.

    Advice please?

    Bruce
    Yes, it should really be a standalone topic. I'll try and fix this for all a little later but I'm in work prep mode right now and need to be out the door pretty soon.

    So, what this means is moving or better still copying over relevant posts that have been made here to a new thread, which will inevitably appear somewhere under the Spirituality sub-forum.



    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    Scott Ritter cuts Lindsey Graham a new one in this scalding assessment of him. https://t.me/ScottRitter/962
    Yes, no punches pulled here, at all

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Honored, Retired Member. Hervé passed on 13 November 2024.
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Arguably a very impressive improvisation by the Su-27's pilot. None of this would have ever have been trained for, and now they know this clever manoeuver will work, we might watch to see if this happens again.

    https://t.me/intelslava/45891
    https://t.me/intelslava/45893


    ...

    ... sorry, slow here to get thinking gears whirring... ... but: why would the Pentagon immediately declassify and release a hot video footage without first getting their dirty hands in it???

    Allegedly, here is an MQ-9 Reaper drone:


    ... Here is from Jim Stone:
    Russia killed an American drone with down draft

    The Pentagon released footage showing the Russian jet flying past it repeatedly, dumping fuel on it and attempting to break it up with downdraft from the wings. It worked.

    Russia actually is right here, because if the US is not officially at war the drone was supposed to have a transponder and it did not.


    Russia did not shoot it down, nor did their jet collide with it, which is good for Russia because Russia is now very financially stressed and did not have to waste a missile.

    Update:
    The video released by the Pentagon is a diversity hire fake.
    Just not good at those things anymore.

    The video is as described, however at the end the propeller is bent and it's a different propeller. After the "collision" the screen goes to color bars, and when it returns, The yellow lines on the propeller are gone. OOPS!!

    I still think the Russians crashed it with down draft so they could go get it without it totally smashed or blown up. We will have to take a second look at that propeller then to confirm if the video really was faked.
    ... so... apparently, an MQ-9 Reaper drone has a three-blade propeller - with yellow safety marks - at 120 degrees to each other... now, have another look at that video footage... what do you see? Safety yellow bars? Blade angle to each other? Sun/shadow position?

    Wouldn't that make for a strange fish in that Black Sea?

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