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Thread: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

  1. Link to Post #10821
    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    “ I think it was Colonel Douglas Macgregor who said that Wagner was like the French legion. There are also foreign fighters in it.”

    Yes it was, Colonel Douglas Macgregor said that to Judge Napolitano.


    Another interesting explanation given here,

    https://twitter.com/witte_sergei/sta...18051574972416



    https://bigserge.substack.com/p/russ...agner-uprising

    Excerpt from above article,

    “What Prigozhin Wants

    I sometimes like to think of western “end of history” predeterminism (in which all of history is an inexorable march towards global neoliberal performative democracy and the final liberation and happiness of all mankind is announced when the victorious pride flag flies in Moscow, Beijing, Tehran, and Pyongyang) as being essentially a geopolitical corollary to Jurassic Park - a poignant story of hubris and ruin (and one of my favorite movies).

    The analytic model of Jurassic Park’s creators presumed that the dinosaurs - creatures about whom they knew practically nothing - would over time submit to control routines like zoo animals. Blinded by the illusion of control and the theoretical stability of their systems (presumed to be stable because it was designed to be stable), there was no appreciation for the fact that the Tyrannosaurus had an intelligence and a will of its own.

    I think that Yevgeny Prigozhin is a bit like the Tyrannosaurus in Jurassic Park. Both the western neoliberal apparatus and the Russian four dimensional plan-trusters seem to think of Prigozhin as a cog that exists to execute the function of their world model. Whether that model is the long march of history towards democracy and the last man or a brilliant and nuanced master plan by Putin to destroy the unipolar Atlantic world, it does not matter much - both tend to negate Prigozhin’s agency and turn him into a slave of the model. But perhaps he is a Tyranosaurus, with an intelligence and will that has an internally generated direction indifferent to our world models. Perhaps he tore down the fence for reasons of his own


    We have to return to who Prigozhin is, and what Wagner is.

    To Prigozhin, Wagner is first and foremost a business which has made him a huge amount of money, particularly in Africa. Wagner’s value (in the most fundamental sense) comes from its high degree of combat effectiveness and its unique status as an independent entity from the Russian armed forces. Any threat to either of these factors represents a financial and status catastrophe for Prigozhin.

    Recently, developments in the war have evinced an existential threat to the Wagner group as a viable PMC. These are, namely:

    A concerted push by the Russian government to force Wagner fighters to sign contracts with the Ministry of Defense. In effect, this threatens to liquidate Wagner as an independent organization and subsume it wholesale into the regular Russian military.
    Wagner is losing the manpower surge from last year’s conscriptions (including convicts). These conscripts provided an enormous manpower buffer that allowed Wagner to shoulder the large-scale fighting in Bakhmut, but many have completed their tours of duty.
    This means that Wagner faces potential destruction from two fronts. Institutionally, the Russian government wants to essentially neutralize Wagner’s independence by folding it into the MoD. From Prigozhin’s point of view, this essentially means the nationalization of his business.

    Furthermore, a slimmed down Wagner (having shed much of the conscripts that fleshed it out to Army Corps size) is not something that Prigozhin wants to send into combat in Ukraine. Once Wagner is stripped down to its core of experienced wet work operators, casualties in Ukraine will begin eating directly into Wagner’s viability.

    In other words, Prigozhin and the authorities were at an impasse. What Prigozhin probably wanted most of all, to put it bluntly, was to use the fame won in Bakhmut to take Wagner back to Africa and start making lots of money again. What he did not want was to have his PMC absorbed into the Russian military, or to have his core of lethal professionals attrited in another major battle in Ukraine. The MoD, on the other hand, very much wants to absorb Wagner fighters into the regular army and use them to defeat Ukraine on the battlefield.

    So, we have a clear conflict of interests.

    But what can Prigozhin do about it? He has absolutely no institutional power, and Wagner is dependent on the Ministry of Defense for equipment, supplies, ISR, and so much more. Furthermore, Prigozhin’s personal wealth and his family are under the jurisdiction of the Russian state. He has very limited leverage. There are really only a few things he can do. He can record videos to embarrass, harass, and degrade the Ministry of Defense. Of course, it’s probably unwise to directly attack Putin in these rants, and it might not play well to insult ordinary Russian soldiers, so these attacks have to be properly targeted at precisely the sort of bureaucratic higher ups that the Russian public is predisposed to dislike - men like Shoigu and Gerasimov.

    Apart from these video tantrums, Prigozhin really had only one other play to stop the institutional absorption of Wagner - stage an armed protest. Get as many men as he could to join him, make a move, and see if the state could be rocked enough to give him the deal he wanted.

    It sounds weird, of course. You’ve heard of gunboat diplomacy - now we get to see tank-based contract negotiations. Yet it is clear that the dispute over Wagner’s independence and status vis a vis Russian military institutions was at the heart of this. Earlier this month, Prigozhin announced his intention to disobey a presidential order that required his fighters to sign MoD contracts by July 1.

    Prigozhin’s statement this morning (Monday, June 26), however, was extremely instructive. It focused almost exclusively on his central grievance: Wagner was going to be absorbed into the institutional military. He doesn’t take this to its conclusion and note that this would nationalize his highly profitable business, but his comments leave no doubt as to his motivation. Here are a few key points that he makes:

    Wagner did not want to sign contracts with the Ministry of Defense
    Absorption into the MoD would mean the end of Wagner: “This unit was supposed to cease its existence on July 1.”
    “The goal of our campaign was to prevent the destruction of Wagner Group.”
    But what did Prigozhin think would happen? What was his optimistic scenario? Likely, he hoped that general anti-bureaucratic and anti-corruption sentiments, combined with Wagner’s popularity and fame, would lead to an upswell of support for the group which would put the government in a position to acquiesce to Wagner’s independence.

    It was a bold decision. Facing institutional absorption, Prigozhin gambled on a measured destabilization campaign that would rock the country just enough to spook Putin into cutting him a deal. Prigozhin might have convinced himself that this was a clever and decisive roll of the dice that could turn things in his favor. I rather think that they were not playing dice at all. They were playing cards, and Prigozhin had nothing in his hand.”

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  3. Link to Post #10822
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Wagner troops moved to Belarus


    Helpful note from Bill:

    This is in Korean, but English subtitles can be generated by clicking Settings > Subtities > Auto-translate > English (or any other language).
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 27th June 2023 at 09:55.
    For free society!

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  5. Link to Post #10823
    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    German Troops to Russian Border, 8000 Wagner in Belarus! Ukraine Nuke Drill
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    THOUSANDS OF GERMAN TROOPS TO RUSSIAN BORDER, 8000 WAGNER IN BELARUS! UKRAINE NUKE DRILL
    canadian prepper
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    30,157 views jun 26, 2023

    Last edited by onawah; 27th June 2023 at 04:07.
    Each breath a gift...
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  7. Link to Post #10824
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Prigozhin’s Dangerous Game Of Extortion. What The Wagner Head Gained and Lost
    Kim Iversen
    538K subscribers
    2.1K views 6/26/23

    "Breaking down Prigozhin’s attempts at extorting Moscow. Was it for personal money or for love of his Wagner Group?"

    Each breath a gift...
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  9. Link to Post #10825
    Canada Avalon Member atman's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Three videos providing a little break from the day to day news, commentaries and analyses of the current conflict, if you don't mind, while reminding us of the human tragedy in any war...

    The first and the third video, by the way, were filmed in Moscow just a few days ago.

    __________________________________________________________


    Young Russian singer Yaroslav Yuryevich Dronov, better known by his stage name Shaman, has supported the Russian military operation in Ukraine since the beginning and has performed at various government-organized events. In January of this year he even played for Russian soldiers in Lugansk and Mariupol.

    In the following video, added to his YouTube channel just a few days ago, he is singing his single Rise Up during a concert at the Kremlin, in honour of the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow, which is celebrated annually on June 22 in Russia, in Belarus and in Ukraine.

    Quite a touching and respectful display of patriotism and of remembrance to honour the fallen, actually...

    Text under the video:
    Dear family, today we celebrate the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow - remembering the heroes who defended the freedom and independence of our nation and mourning those who gave their lives so that all of us could live.

    I DIE, BUT I DO NOT SURRENDER!

    - These words, written by a Russian soldier on the wall of the Brest Fortress, immortalized the feat of defenders of our homeland who fought back the enemy in the first minutes of the Great Patriotic War. They knew that the truth is behind us and we will definitely win.

    These heroes will remain forever in our hearts. And we will stand up to honor their memory.
    Lyrics:

    Let's Rise
    Let's rise
    As long as we're still living and the truth is on our side
    From up beyond someone is watching us with the eyes we love
    They smiled like children and marched into the skies
    Let's rise
    And get closer to them

    Let's rise
    As long as God and the truth are on our side
    We'll say thanks for granting us victory
    To those who found their heavens and are not with us any more
    Let's rise
    And singsong

    Let's rise
    Our eternal memory beats harder in our chest, among ourselves
    Let's rise
    The heroes of Russia will remain in our hearts
    Till the end

    Let's rise
    And remember all those we have lost in this fire
    Those who were off to die for freedom, not medals
    I know we will definitely meet
    Let's rise
    And singsong anew

    Let's rise
    Our eternal memory beats harder in our chest, among ourselves
    Let's rise
    The heroes of Russia will remain in our hearts
    Till the end

    We'll rise (х3)

    Let's rise
    Our eternal memory beats harder in our chest, among ourselves
    Let's rise
    The heroes of Russia will remain in our hearts
    Till the end


    Source of the translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/vstanem-lets-rise.html
    __________________________________________________________


    Secondly, here's a short video with historical footage from the Great Patriotic War.

    I realize that this video does not really belong on this thread, but I am adding it nevertheless for the added context offered by the text that accompanies the video, re: the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow:
    Text under the video:

    22 июня день памяти и скорби | June 22 is the day of remembrance and sorrow

    The Great Patriotic War lasted for 1418 long days and nights and ended with the complete defeat of the Nazi invaders. On May 9, 1945, at 00:43 Moscow time, the Act of Unconditional Surrender of Germany was signed. 27 million human victims. There was not a single family that would have been spared by this tragedy. And it is our duty to remember this and not let history repeat itself!

    June 22 reminds us of all those who died on the battlefield, tortured in German captivity, died of hunger, cold and disease in the rear, from wounds received in hospitals.

    This is a memorable date for all residents of Russia and all former Soviet countries. Throughout our country, commemorative events are held annually, state flags are lowered, flowers and wreaths are laid at the Eternal Flame, at monuments and memorials of fallen soldiers in the Great Patriotic War. We mourn for all those who defended our Fatherland and our future at the cost of their lives.
    __________________________________________________________


    Finally, if you feel so inclined, watch a few minutes of this walk along the embankment of the Moscow River, where 1418 burning candles are displayed one next to another — 1418 representing of course the number of days of the largest war in the history of Russia.

    The video was filmed on the evening of June 21, 2023.


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  11. Link to Post #10826
    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Text:

    German central bank risks bailout after money printing spree.

    Germany's central bank may need a bailout to cover more than €650 billion in debt losses it racked up in a massive European Central Bank's bond-buying program, the country's federal auditor warned.

    The auditor said the Bundesbank's bond-buying losses were "substantial" and "could necessitate a recapitalisation with budgetary funds."

    The ECB's steep rate hikes led the Bundesbank to lose €1 billion of its bond holdings last year alone.

    That is because the central bank is now paying commercial banks more interest on deposits at the Bundesbank than the interest it earns on its bonds.

    Earlier in March, German central bank President Joachim Nagel warned that the "burdens on the Bundesbank's profit and loss account are likely to increase considerably in the years to come."

    He noted that the Bundesbank's reserves of €19.2 billion are likely to be wiped out in the coming years.

    Nagel said that while its buffers would be sufficient to cover losses this year, he warned that in subsequent years, "the burdens will probably exceed our financial buffers."

    That said, Nagel expects that current losses will be transferred to the Bundesbank's balance sheet and covered by future profits "over the course of time," adding that, for now, "the Bundesbank's balance sheet is sound."
    https://telegraph.co.uk/business/202...rinting-spree/

    https://twitter.com/mazzenilsson/sta...42194064064513


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    Avalon Member Ravenlocke's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    NATO Secretary General position still up in the ai



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Text:
    Flamethrowers "Solntsepyok" and MLRS "Grad" began to burn the militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near the Antonovsky bridge
    The enemy’s raid group had just been hit by the Solntsepyok heavy flamethrower system, before that, our MLRS covered the enemy’s concentration site (on video).
    The battle for the bridgehead continues.

    https://t.me/vicktop55/15769?single

    https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status...64653354381313


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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/st...68666896543744



    https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/st...68671531253760


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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Here is an anomaly I found in the material I posted earlier.

    This is aimed at "general information", such as Wikipedia, I rarely find it to be "wrong", but, it has numerous instances of being "incomplete" in a way that makes trails go cold. This is one such instance.


    If we can figure out who is being discussed here, the Wiki page is on Grand Duke Nicholas Konstantinovitch:


    In a scandal related to this affair, he stole three valuable diamonds from the revetment of one of the most valuable family icons. He was declared insane and he was banished to Tashkent.


    His bio is quite brief, there are not details or specific events until he builds a palace in Tashkent, 1890.

    What is given for the source is another web page, Romanov Sex Scandals 2018:


    Then, in April 1874, diamonds were stolen in the palace of Nicholas’s parents, taken from the revetment of one of the most cherished icons in the family, the one that Nicholas I had blessed his younger son, Nicholas’s father, and his wife with.

    The investigation led to an astonishing discovery – the diamonds were stolen and sold to a pawn shop by Grand Duke Nicholas! He planned to spend the money on gifts for his Fanny. The Grand Duke didn’t show a hint of remorse at the crime, so at his parents’ order he was declared insane, lost all his privileges as a member of the Imperial family and was sent to the countryside, and eventually to Central Asia. He wasn’t even allowed to attend the funeral of his uncle, Alexander II, in 1881.


    A bit more to it, but, we might begin to suspect that the diamonds went missing in 1874, but who knows what happened after that.

    Well, since around 1866, Russia had found itself on the receiving end of assassination attempts and terrorist acts; after a section explaining people in their 20s going around with too much money, we find this guy may be lying in Letters to The Pioneer 1881:


    That unanimous, persistent rumour names unhesitatingly the Grand-Duke Constantine, the late Emperor’s own brother, as the direct and chief conspirator of the regicide. . . .

    Enormous sums of money have been secretly capitalized of late in foreign markets and traced to the Grand Duke, and even the priceless stones from the family ikons in his private chapel, a theft but just discovered, were taken out by no hand of a common thief, but by that of their owner.

    Grand Duke Konstantin Nikolayevich is meant by the first sentence. His page says nothing of these later years.



    The young Grand Duke, while pleading guilty of the theft, said that he had only saved the diamonds from worse hands than his—those of the Nihilists. He declared that he personally was and would ever remain His Majesty’s most faithful and loyal subject, while his father and mother were but two traitors who conspired against the Czar’s life. It is now proved for a certainty that on the day of regicide the Emperor, yielding to the entreaties of both Loris-Melikoff and Dolgoroukov, would probably have remained at home, had not the Grand Duke Constantine’s wife suddenly thwarted Loris-Melikoff’s plans. The Grand Duchess Alexandra Iossifovna, or “Madame Constantine” as she is called, touched the Czar’s pride to the quick by remarking that “were he to abstain from showing himself on that day, the people might suspect His Majesty of being a coward.” That was enough, and the Emperor drove to his doom. It is a well-known fact that ever since March 5th (17th) she has been kept a prisoner in her palace, no one being allowed to see her but in the presence of a high official, who is said to sleep in a room next to her own bed chamber.

    Then there is the fact of their eldest son, the Grand Duke Nikolay Constantinovitch being publicly arrested on the open accusation of being implicated with the Nihilists. Moreover the high office of the Amiralen-Chef held by the Grand Duke Constantine since his very childhood has been suddenly abolished, and the official Government paper has notified all Russia of it. Again, at the time when the dining room in the Winter Palace was blown up, the whole of the Imperial family was present during the catastrophe except the Grand Duke Constantine; who had, on the pretext of some business two hours before, left for Cronstadt. Nor was he at St. Petersburg on March the 1st (13th), having most unexpectedly gone again to the same place on the previous night, returning to the metropolis but three days later, pretending as an excuse a sudden and serious attack of illness upon hearing of the fearful event.


    Does one sell the family jewels for "gifts for an actress" in order to prevent those dreadful Nihilists from getting them?

    Narodnaya Volya has a quite descriptive page, clear enough that its mission is assassination and terrorism, but, it still does not mention accomplices amongst the Tsarists.

    When the diamonds first went missing:


    In the spring of 1874 a mass movement of Going to the People began, with young intellectuals taking jobs in rural villages as teachers, clerks, doctors, carpenters, masons, or common farm laborers, attempting to immerse themselves in the peasants' world so as to better inculcate them with socialist and revolutionary ideas. Fired with messianic zeal, perhaps 2,000 people left for rural posts in the spring; by the fall some 1,600 of these found themselves arrested and jailed, failing to make the slightest headway in fomenting agrarian revolution. The failure of this movement, marked by a rejection of political arguments by the peasantry and easy arrests of public speakers by local authorities and the Okhrana, deeply influenced the revolutionary movement in years to follow. The need for stealth and secrecy and more aggressive measures seemed to have been made clear.


    However detailed, it does not say anything about outside assistance such as Rothschild banks, or internal complicity from disgruntled Romanovs. The Letters from the original event obviously show this.

    It does mention Propaganda of the Deed by the Mazzinist Pisacane as significantly influential:

    These ideas are called propaganda of the deed and have exerted compelling influence on rebels and terrorists alike ever since [1857].

    Russia 1866 is shown at the beginning of the huge strand of acts derived from this work, including President McKinley, Archduke Franz Ferdinand, and so on. Again we find a kind of split from someone who might be a "socialist", "moderate reformer", etc., certainly wants to wash their hands:

    As early as 1887, a few important figures in the anarchist movement had begun to distance themselves from individual acts of violence. Peter Kropotkin thus wrote that year in Le Révolté that "a structure based on centuries of history cannot be destroyed with a few kilos of dynamite". A variety of anarchists advocated the abandonment of these sorts of tactics in favor of collective revolutionary action, for example through the trade union movement. The anarcho-syndicalist, Fernand Pelloutier, argued in 1895 for renewed anarchist involvement in the labor movement on the basis that anarchism could do very well without "the individual dynamiter."


    Inspired by The Man who was Thursday 1908 (fictional), Jack London began but did not finish The Assassination Bureau Inc., which was set in America. In 1969, the fictional background was re-worked to film The Assassination Bureau, which starts in London 1908. It is a black comedy and still fictional, but, at least somewhat deliberately tinkered to be suggestive of the actual events.

    This seems to be about the same as what was called in the French Revolution "Radicals". There is a big difference between someone prepared to slap on a uniform and fight--e. g., the American Continental Army against the British military--and someone willing to do anything to unleash violence.

    "Violent acts for sale" seems to summarize most western Private Military Contractors, which again is why such a thing does not really sound Russian. It may as well have been dissolved if it does not really fit their ethos. If convicted, Prigozhin would have served twelve to twenty years--sounds light and then he would be re-qualified to join such a band.

    Amnesty seems to have worked quite well in Syria, probably because most of the defectors were desperate and misguided. When Russia first tried it, Europe thought it was the thing to do, but then it directly played into outspoken terrorism.


    Tarpley on Lord Palmerston's assistants Mazzini, Urquhart, and Napoleon III:


    Mazzini is also an assassination bureau.


    That article is thickly detailed.

    Perhaps first inspiring the Orsini Affair 1858:


    The expatriate Italian leader Giuseppe Mazzini worked a network of activists and fundraisers from London.


    Even from a favorable view in The Atlantic:


    In Mazzini’s case, moreover, as one of his biographers has pointed out, his contemporaries have been the less able to grasp an idea of his character as a whole owing to the fact that his astonishing influence over his own countrymen and the whole democracy of Europe was exerted mysteriously and chiefly from a distance, and they have been compelled to judge him from “ the remote effects of an inspiration often misinterpreted by those who were its instruments.”


    As we know, he launched Young Italy in distinction to the Carbonari, and of course the widespread issuance of such youth movements is pretty much in line with propaganda of the deed.

    This was up and running before, and was informative to, dangerous Russian Nihilists such as Bakunin.
    Last edited by shaberon; 27th June 2023 at 06:33.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I found this very very interesting, and it surprised me: Doug Macgregor was pretty much defending (or justifying) Prigozhin's actions, and is worth listening to simply because anything Macgregor argues has to be worth considering carefully.
    For others who found this interesting as well (the first time Macgregor has really diverged from the views of Scott Ritter and others), here he is again, currently live with Judge Napolitano and continuing to explain his opinion about Prigozhin and Wagner.

    I listened to this earlier this morning over my second cup of tea, and it is excellent, as ever. Clear, and as accurate an analysis as I've heard so far, from anyone. This really must be listened to in conjunction with the ever extraordinary Ray McGovern whose serene wisdom remains omnipresent throughout.

    Apropos the dynamic between Andrew Napolitano and Ray McGovern: two 'New Yorkers' - New Jersey and The Bronx if I remember correctly - who totally get it

    I'll temporarily retire my more conspiratorial musings for another time ( ) as it's become abundantly clear to me - and it had occurred as well - that this event, which still does count as grand theatre (!) had been remarkably skilfully handled by Vladimir Putin whose impressiveness continues to rise; that it does seem as if this was not a truly treasonous act; that Prigozhin has (obviously) within Russian circles been understood to always have the potential to do something as outlandish as this, to make a statement, which does in this case have some justification.

    Entertaining isn't quite the right word here, but it sure as heck has been totally gripping drama, in a way that perhaps only a Russian mind could really properly understand. One does wonder whether Tolstoy could have contrived a plot so engaging: the good Ruble would suggest, quite probably.

    So, onwards we go....
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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  21. Link to Post #10831
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Miller (here)
    Am I alone in wondering whether Prigozhin suffered some kind of mental breakdown which may have contributed to his erratic behaviour over the past few months?
    Not at all. Several here on this thread (including myself and Bruce Charlton) have been maintaining exactly this.
    Thanks, Bill, and apologies. Only a brief absence from this thread and it's impossible to keep up.
    "Is there an idea more radical in the history of the human race than turning your children over to total strangers whom you know nothing about, and having those strangers work on your child's mind, out of your sight, for a period of twelve years?" John Taylor Gatto

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    I really don't want to appear shallow, and of course you all know me WAY better than that, but: have any of you seen so many attractive, healthy, and exuberant young people all in one place exuding a simple pure pride? My goodness, they're gorgeous....

    This is quite the moment

    Filmed, I think, perhaps as recently as yesterday although I can't be certain.

    “I am Russian” — “Я Русский”



    Trust me, there really isn't anything like this happening here in the UK right now.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Shared by Kim Dotcom on Twitter who rightly states that this is "hard to watch".

    Ukrainian soldiers trapped in a minefield

    It brings home the reality of what the hopelessly abandoned, under-supported Ukrainian soldiers are faced with every day on the battlefield. NATO knows all this of course but daren't ever admit to it publicly, you know, to "keep face". I echo Scott Ritter's recently impassioned vitriol aimed at those western military and political types who should all be brought before the ICC and charged with crimes of murder.

    This isn't graphic in the sense to which we're sadly accustomed, but a stark snapshot of reality. A little longer than some clips, and comes in at about 11 minutes in length

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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  27. Link to Post #10834
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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by atman (here)
    Three videos providing a little break from the day to day news, commentaries and analyses of the current conflict, if you don't mind, while reminding us of the human tragedy in any war...

    The first and the third video, by the way, were filmed in Moscow just a few days ago.

    __________________________________________________________


    Young Russian singer Yaroslav Yuryevich Dronov, better known by his stage name Shaman, has supported the Russian military operation in Ukraine since the beginning and has performed at various government-organized events. In January of this year he even played for Russian soldiers in Lugansk and Mariupol.

    In the following video, added to his YouTube channel just a few days ago, he is singing his single Rise Up during a concert at the Kremlin, in honour of the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow, which is celebrated annually on June 22 in Russia, in Belarus and in Ukraine.

    Quite a touching and respectful display of patriotism and of remembrance to honour the fallen, actually...

    Text under the video:
    Dear family, today we celebrate the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow - remembering the heroes who defended the freedom and independence of our nation and mourning those who gave their lives so that all of us could live.

    I DIE, BUT I DO NOT SURRENDER!

    - These words, written by a Russian soldier on the wall of the Brest Fortress, immortalized the feat of defenders of our homeland who fought back the enemy in the first minutes of the Great Patriotic War. They knew that the truth is behind us and we will definitely win.

    These heroes will remain forever in our hearts. And we will stand up to honor their memory.
    Lyrics:

    Let's Rise
    Let's rise
    As long as we're still living and the truth is on our side
    From up beyond someone is watching us with the eyes we love
    They smiled like children and marched into the skies
    Let's rise
    And get closer to them

    Let's rise
    As long as God and the truth are on our side
    We'll say thanks for granting us victory
    To those who found their heavens and are not with us any more
    Let's rise
    And singsong

    Let's rise
    Our eternal memory beats harder in our chest, among ourselves
    Let's rise
    The heroes of Russia will remain in our hearts
    Till the end

    Let's rise
    And remember all those we have lost in this fire
    Those who were off to die for freedom, not medals
    I know we will definitely meet
    Let's rise
    And singsong anew

    Let's rise
    Our eternal memory beats harder in our chest, among ourselves
    Let's rise
    The heroes of Russia will remain in our hearts
    Till the end

    We'll rise (х3)

    Let's rise
    Our eternal memory beats harder in our chest, among ourselves
    Let's rise
    The heroes of Russia will remain in our hearts
    Till the end


    Source of the translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/vstanem-lets-rise.html
    __________________________________________________________


    Secondly, here's a short video with historical footage from the Great Patriotic War.

    I realize that this video does not really belong on this thread, but I am adding it nevertheless for the added context offered by the text that accompanies the video, re: the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow:
    Text under the video:

    22 июня день памяти и скорби | June 22 is the day of remembrance and sorrow

    The Great Patriotic War lasted for 1418 long days and nights and ended with the complete defeat of the Nazi invaders. On May 9, 1945, at 00:43 Moscow time, the Act of Unconditional Surrender of Germany was signed. 27 million human victims. There was not a single family that would have been spared by this tragedy. And it is our duty to remember this and not let history repeat itself!

    June 22 reminds us of all those who died on the battlefield, tortured in German captivity, died of hunger, cold and disease in the rear, from wounds received in hospitals.

    This is a memorable date for all residents of Russia and all former Soviet countries. Throughout our country, commemorative events are held annually, state flags are lowered, flowers and wreaths are laid at the Eternal Flame, at monuments and memorials of fallen soldiers in the Great Patriotic War. We mourn for all those who defended our Fatherland and our future at the cost of their lives.
    __________________________________________________________


    Finally, if you feel so inclined, watch a few minutes of this walk along the embankment of the Moscow River, where 1418 burning candles are displayed one next to another — 1418 representing of course the number of days of the largest war in the history of Russia.

    The video was filmed on the evening of June 21, 2023.

    Having lost many family members to wars and having seen the devastation to the ones that lived through it, life long devastation, it is refreshing to see respect and honor shown to these men and women. There are many countries that see them as nothing more than cannon fodder and lab rats for experimental medical injections. That song was so touching it moved me beyond words. Thank you, Atman.
    Last edited by Pam; 27th June 2023 at 11:22.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
    “ I think it was Colonel Douglas Macgregor who said that Wagner was like the French legion. There are also foreign fighters in it.”

    Yes it was, Colonel Douglas Macgregor said that to Judge Napolitano.


    Another interesting explanation given here,

    https://twitter.com/witte_sergei/sta...18051574972416



    https://bigserge.substack.com/p/russ...agner-uprising

    Excerpt from above article,

    “What Prigozhin Wants

    I sometimes like to think of western “end of history” predeterminism (in which all of history is an inexorable march towards global neoliberal performative democracy and the final liberation and happiness of all mankind is announced when the victorious pride flag flies in Moscow, Beijing, Tehran, and Pyongyang) as being essentially a geopolitical corollary to Jurassic Park - a poignant story of hubris and ruin (and one of my favorite movies).

    The analytic model of Jurassic Park’s creators presumed that the dinosaurs - creatures about whom they knew practically nothing - would over time submit to control routines like zoo animals. Blinded by the illusion of control and the theoretical stability of their systems (presumed to be stable because it was designed to be stable), there was no appreciation for the fact that the Tyrannosaurus had an intelligence and a will of its own.

    I think that Yevgeny Prigozhin is a bit like the Tyrannosaurus in Jurassic Park. Both the western neoliberal apparatus and the Russian four dimensional plan-trusters seem to think of Prigozhin as a cog that exists to execute the function of their world model. Whether that model is the long march of history towards democracy and the last man or a brilliant and nuanced master plan by Putin to destroy the unipolar Atlantic world, it does not matter much - both tend to negate Prigozhin’s agency and turn him into a slave of the model. But perhaps he is a Tyranosaurus, with an intelligence and will that has an internally generated direction indifferent to our world models. Perhaps he tore down the fence for reasons of his own


    We have to return to who Prigozhin is, and what Wagner is.

    To Prigozhin, Wagner is first and foremost a business which has made him a huge amount of money, particularly in Africa. Wagner’s value (in the most fundamental sense) comes from its high degree of combat effectiveness and its unique status as an independent entity from the Russian armed forces. Any threat to either of these factors represents a financial and status catastrophe for Prigozhin.

    Recently, developments in the war have evinced an existential threat to the Wagner group as a viable PMC. These are, namely:

    A concerted push by the Russian government to force Wagner fighters to sign contracts with the Ministry of Defense. In effect, this threatens to liquidate Wagner as an independent organization and subsume it wholesale into the regular Russian military.
    Wagner is losing the manpower surge from last year’s conscriptions (including convicts). These conscripts provided an enormous manpower buffer that allowed Wagner to shoulder the large-scale fighting in Bakhmut, but many have completed their tours of duty.
    This means that Wagner faces potential destruction from two fronts. Institutionally, the Russian government wants to essentially neutralize Wagner’s independence by folding it into the MoD. From Prigozhin’s point of view, this essentially means the nationalization of his business.

    Furthermore, a slimmed down Wagner (having shed much of the conscripts that fleshed it out to Army Corps size) is not something that Prigozhin wants to send into combat in Ukraine. Once Wagner is stripped down to its core of experienced wet work operators, casualties in Ukraine will begin eating directly into Wagner’s viability.

    In other words, Prigozhin and the authorities were at an impasse. What Prigozhin probably wanted most of all, to put it bluntly, was to use the fame won in Bakhmut to take Wagner back to Africa and start making lots of money again. What he did not want was to have his PMC absorbed into the Russian military, or to have his core of lethal professionals attrited in another major battle in Ukraine. The MoD, on the other hand, very much wants to absorb Wagner fighters into the regular army and use them to defeat Ukraine on the battlefield.

    So, we have a clear conflict of interests.

    But what can Prigozhin do about it? He has absolutely no institutional power, and Wagner is dependent on the Ministry of Defense for equipment, supplies, ISR, and so much more. Furthermore, Prigozhin’s personal wealth and his family are under the jurisdiction of the Russian state. He has very limited leverage. There are really only a few things he can do. He can record videos to embarrass, harass, and degrade the Ministry of Defense. Of course, it’s probably unwise to directly attack Putin in these rants, and it might not play well to insult ordinary Russian soldiers, so these attacks have to be properly targeted at precisely the sort of bureaucratic higher ups that the Russian public is predisposed to dislike - men like Shoigu and Gerasimov.

    Apart from these video tantrums, Prigozhin really had only one other play to stop the institutional absorption of Wagner - stage an armed protest. Get as many men as he could to join him, make a move, and see if the state could be rocked enough to give him the deal he wanted.

    It sounds weird, of course. You’ve heard of gunboat diplomacy - now we get to see tank-based contract negotiations. Yet it is clear that the dispute over Wagner’s independence and status vis a vis Russian military institutions was at the heart of this. Earlier this month, Prigozhin announced his intention to disobey a presidential order that required his fighters to sign MoD contracts by July 1.

    Prigozhin’s statement this morning (Monday, June 26), however, was extremely instructive. It focused almost exclusively on his central grievance: Wagner was going to be absorbed into the institutional military. He doesn’t take this to its conclusion and note that this would nationalize his highly profitable business, but his comments leave no doubt as to his motivation. Here are a few key points that he makes:

    Wagner did not want to sign contracts with the Ministry of Defense
    Absorption into the MoD would mean the end of Wagner: “This unit was supposed to cease its existence on July 1.”
    “The goal of our campaign was to prevent the destruction of Wagner Group.”
    But what did Prigozhin think would happen? What was his optimistic scenario? Likely, he hoped that general anti-bureaucratic and anti-corruption sentiments, combined with Wagner’s popularity and fame, would lead to an upswell of support for the group which would put the government in a position to acquiesce to Wagner’s independence.

    It was a bold decision. Facing institutional absorption, Prigozhin gambled on a measured destabilization campaign that would rock the country just enough to spook Putin into cutting him a deal. Prigozhin might have convinced himself that this was a clever and decisive roll of the dice that could turn things in his favor. I rather think that they were not playing dice at all. They were playing cards, and Prigozhin had nothing in his hand.”
    The whole article crackles with a dry wit, grounded good sense, and comes with a shovel of high-quality shungite. It may even qualify as the last word on the matter, we'll see.

    It's saved in the library - too good not to - in a directory, along with other key moments (to be further populated) that treats this incident rather more as a 'protest' than any kind of insurrection per se.

    Yevgeny_Prigozhin_+_Wagner_protest_(June_2023)

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Quote Posted by Tintin (here)
    ---
    This isn't graphic in the sense to which we're sadly accustomed, but a stark snapshot of reality. A little longer than some clips, and comes in at about 11 minutes in length
    ---
    I've seen this video yesterday and it shows how incredibly stupid war is. At first I felt to share it too just to prove that point.
    But on the other hand I don't like to subject a greater audience to these kind of horrible images where you realize that one
    moment somebody is fine and then the next disaster strikes. Watching it makes me feel like an accomplice because of this
    timely nature (Watching it is one thing, filming it is even on a deeper level).

    Perhaps we should still show these videos to all those people playing shoot'em'up games to confront them with the horrible reality.

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    ...

    ... latest from Scott Ritter:

    Scott Ritter talks about the situation in Russia 26:17

    Issues that Matter with Cynthia Pooler

    Jun 26, 2023 #scottritter #putin #russia

    Scott Ritter talks about the situation in Russia

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Address to Defence Ministry, National Guard, Federal Security Service, Interior Ministry and Federal Guard Service units which ensured law and order during the mutiny

    Speaking on Cathedral Square of the Moscow Kremlin, the President addressed service personnel from the units of the Defence Ministry, the Federal Service of National Guard Troops, the Federal Security Service, the Interior Ministry and the Federal Guard Service, which ensured law and order during the mutiny.

    _____________________________________________________________

    June 27, 2023 13:25 The Kremlin, Moscow

    The President addressed service personnel from the units of the Defence Ministry, the Federal Service of National Guard Troops, the Federal Security Service, the Interior Ministry and the Federal Guard Service, which ensured law and order during the mutiny.



    The President addressed service personnel from the units of the Defence Ministry, the Federal Service of National Guard Troops, the Federal Security Service, the Interior Ministry and the Federal Guard Service, which ensured law and order during the mutiny. Photo: Sergey Guneev, RIA Novosti

    President of Russia Vladimir Putin:

    Comrades,

    Today, standing here on the historic Cathedral Square of the Moscow Kremlin are the service personnel of the Russian Federation Armed Forces, soldiers and officers of the National Guard, the Federal Security Service, the Interior Ministry and the Federal Guard Service. They are the ones who, together with their comrades-in-arms, at a time of challenge for the country, threw themselves in the way of trouble which would have inevitably led to chaos.

    You have defended the constitutional order, as well as the life, security and freedom of our citizens, steering our Motherland clear from upheavals and de facto stopping a civil war in its tracks.

    In that complicated situation, you acted in a firm and coordinated manner, proving your commitment to the people of Russia and to your military oath through your actions and showing responsibility for the destiny and future of Russia.

    Defence Ministry units, the National Guard, officers of the Interior Ministry and special services ensured reliable operation of all critical decision-making bodies, strategic facilities, including the defence ones, ensured the security of border regions, the rear lines of our Armed Forces, of all combat units which carried on with their heroic frontline operations during that time. We did not have to withdraw any combat troops from the special military operation zone.

    Our comrades-in-arms – pilots – lost their lives while confronting the mutineers. They held their ground and fulfilled their orders and their military duty with honour. I am asking you to observe a minute of silence in tribute to their memory.

    (Minute of silence.)

    Comrades,

    Your resolve and courage, along with consolidation of Russian society, played an essential and decisive role in bringing the situation back to normal. Those who were drawn into the mutiny saw that the army and the people were not with them.

    The swift and well-managed deployment of defence, security and law enforcement units helped prevent the situation in the country from going down a very dangerous road and ensure that there were no civilian casualties.

    I extend my gratitude to you and all the personnel of the Armed Forces, law enforcement agencies and security services for your service, courage and valour, for your devotion to the people of Russia.

    (National anthem of Russia.)

    Best of luck to you. Thank you.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

    Robert W Malone, MD, tweets his response to what Hungarian Foreign Affairs Minister Péter Szijjártó has asked in a recent interview:

    Péter Szijjártó:
    “How on earth is it possible that someone blows up critical infrastructure on the territory of Europe and no one has a say, no one condemns, no one carries out an investigation?”
    Robert W Malone:
    "Psywars: There is no investigation because the leaders in the EU nations and the USA know exactly who blew up Nordstream. Hint: it wasn't the Russians.

    5th gen warfare tactic - confuse the populace with conflicting propaganda, until they can't tell up from down."
    https://twitter.com/RWMaloneMD/statu...72741646479361


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    Default Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia


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