Trump is NOT the answer

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by T Smith (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Don't you see that Trump mocking Biden for dementia (mental handicap) and confusion (mental handicap) is just exactly as low as the Democrats coming after Trump's appearance, personality, and style? Don't you think this behavior could backfire on Trump? A good part of me being convinced that Trump will win is that the Democrats have made him a martyr. Political money in the bank. How can you think that Trump isn't negating some or all of his image as a persecuted martyr if he's using the tactic of mocking the dementia patient face of the Democrat cabal?

Trolling reporters works and makes Trump look clever; trolling the dementia patient doesn't.

This seems more a social commentary on politics in general than whether it will backfire--although it could backfire, by why would it? Trump has found a style that works extremely well for him in a very hostile arena (in this case past performance is indicative of future gains). He has found a way of enduring the onslaught that would have destroyed anyone else challenging the Uniparty in a more direct way (think Ron Paul/Tulsi Gabbard/ RFK Jr., etc). And he's exploiting it. Unfortunately the latter style just doesn't capture the attention of the public. And it's very easy to defeat with weaponized propaganda. Trump is attacking the "bad guys" by any and all means, including the weaponized propaganda juggernaut. To all who support him, this makes him a sort of David to the establishment's Goliath. Isn't that just politics?

I understand that the style is distasteful to some. Especially to a demographic that doesn't see Trump's trolling victims as the "bad guys". Couple that with the most concerted agitprop campaign waged against one person (and the divide in general) I've ever seen in my lifetime--a program of outright mind control--and you have this thing called Trump Derangement Syndrome afflicting a full 40% of the population.

I'm not convinced being a martyr equates to a Donald Trump victory in 2024. That assumes elections are real, that votes matter, and the entire psyop is not just theater. If the Uniparty got away with the Big Steal in 2020--a heist carried out in the broad daylight and right before our very eyes--and as they continue to get away with incessantly gaslighting the public that said heist never occurred, why would any votes matter at all? This whole 2024 election talk confuses me. There appears to be no remedy, legal or otherwise, to a stolen election--short of a Revolution--least of all another election.

You make a lot of sense, T. I have believed for a long time that not only are presidents selected by the deep state, behind the curtain, not by voters, but that they are powerless to do anything in office that double-crosses the deep state. We can observe which actions are deep state agenda by noting which issues are seamlessly handed from one president to the next, regardless of which of the 2 political parties' guy gets into office. For example, the open border issue is not deep state agenda but rather DNC agenda, and Trump will indeed be able to reverse that. The Biden-fronted DNC cabal flowed seamlessly from Trump's (the Trump regime's) heinous actions against Venezuela and that is obviously deep state agenda. International/supra-national/global Central Banking and the debt-money system is deep state agenda. Military-intelligence industrial complex support and spending is deep state agenda. 9/11 was deep state agenda. The New World Order is deep state agenda. Russo-"phobia" is deep state agenda. Neutering Wikileaks and imprisoning Assange is deep state agenda.

The US federal executive branch, nor the US federal legislative branch, nor the US federal judicial branch, nor the "4th estate" deep state owned and controlled corporate media, is going to fix or stop or reverse any deep state agenda. There won't be any people's revolution in the USA, only the deep state game of ping pong between deep state controlled DNC and deep state controlled RNC, designed to present the illusion of change and the potential of change. Probably the only thing that could "stop" the deep state would be an inner coup, where the second tier of the deep state took out the top tier, gangland style, but that would really only be a changing of personnel, not the end of the reign of the deep state.

I was born in deep state controlled USA - that I now call the USA, Inc. - and I will die in the deep state controlled USA, Inc. I should back off and just observe Avalon members make asses of themselves believing that Trump or any other person is going to stop the deep state agenda, but it embarrasses and demeans Avalon, one of the few places left to even express anti-deep state sentiment. My solution is a revolt where US citizens take over the election system and disallow anyone to even run for office that is connected to the Global Corporate Network of the deep state, followed by a hot war against the international/global banking cabal, but I see no indication whatsoever that any such action is brewing, and the propaganda, the narrative control is far too powerful for a wake-up call to even reach the brainwashed masses. It's really depressing to open ones eyes and realize that we're not getting out of this, and it will only get worse.

[T Smith]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
I have believed for a long time that not only are presidents selected by the deep state, behind the curtain, not by voters, but that they are powerless to do anything in office that double-crosses the deep state.

The way I understand it, candidates--and all politicians who ascend up the established power structure--are vetted by the deep state (and powerless to do anything once in office to double-cross their sponsors and masters), but only then are they allowed to run for office and ascend. And then the candidates from that field are selected by the voters. So the vote is more-or-less real (at least until 2020) as long as both candidates are deep state assets who will execute the deep state bidding.

In other words, the deep state doesn't care who wins.

But they do care if Trump wins, regardless of whether some of his policies align with their interests or not.

I know we will likely disagree on the previous point. In my view, however, this is exactly the selection model Trump broke given his "unique" and brash style of politics. But that's what makes him unlike any other political candidate, and why his style and methods work.

In sum, it should be abundantly clear to all Trump is not an approved deep-state candidate. Through their DNC and RNC agents, what we call the "Uniparty," they are waging a vicious war against Trump, the unapproved candidate, by any and all means necessary, including martyring him by employing Banana Republic-like tactics to silence him.

I honestly don't think there is any other way to view this thing....

[Dennis Leahy]

This post was specifically about Trump trolling. I disagree with it being moved here, into a thread that I already said I didn't want to resurrect because Trump obviously "is the answer" for some US (and Canadian!) citizens. But I get it, I should have joined the party and laughed at Biden falling down the stairs if I wanted to post in that hilarious thread, and pretended that Trump was a great US president and will be an even more muchly huge big great US president again. I predict that Julian Assange will die laughing.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
There is an NBC News, Meet The Press, titled, "Full Trump Interview :I don't consider us to have much of a", which is an hour and 18 minutes long. There's your guy, handling this pushy partisan interviewer very well (even though his answers to her "have you stopped beating your wife"-style of interview are somewhat vacuous and jingoistic, and deflecting blame to Biden rather than expounding what he would do differently.) If you want examples of Trump's great trolling, here's more than an hour of footage.

Don't you see that Trump mocking Biden for dementia (mental handicap) and confusion (mental handicap) is just exactly as low as the Democrats coming after Trump's appearance, personality, and style? Don't you think this behavior could backfire on Trump? A good part of me being convinced that Trump will win is that the Democrats have made him a martyr. Political money in the bank. How can you think that Trump isn't negating some or all of his image as a persecuted martyr if he's using the tactic of mocking the dementia patient face of the Democrat cabal?

Trolling reporters works and makes Trump look clever; trolling the dementia patient doesn't.

[gini]

Thanks Bill for moving the political discussion to this thread,i agree ;satire & serious political discussion are not a good combination,and discussing humor is a whole different subject wich could have its own thread as well ,since humour & satire are a big target of the new censorship & cancelculture!

Yes ,i agree Trump IS not the answer; but he is many other things ,a symbol,a provocateur,a troll,a catalysator and -perhaps in a certain way-a political genius.
I had different phases from perceiving Trump as a cheesy tv star, then during the 2015 presidential campaigns (when i already didnt watched the telly for decades)i suddenly noticed everybody -who were getting their info from mainstream-were talking very bad about him ,so i got curious and watched how the hate campaign was rolling out all over the western world and i got a bit sucked into it ,because i never saw something enormous like that against 1 person !

The Trump movement was very challenging for me as coming from a working class ,left progressive ,anti kapitalist background and made me rethink many political convictions.
It brought me to Avalon much more then before ,and i decided to become a member.
So i see Trump also as a catalysator for the 'western' collective mindset,because what happened to me was not an exception;millions all over the world went through a similar process.

And there you have the value of a phenomenon wich rises above politics & polarisation. The call for CRITICAL THINKING!!wich is the exact opposite of blind belief in propaganda,and the only real remedy for a manipulated dumbdowned wrongly informed population where AI (fake news ,fake videos etc.)-without proper preparation-can take over the entire internet!

Trump was the first high profile politician who blew the whistle on fake news & exposed the lies of the MSM and that was good & necessary ..

I lost my sympathy for him with his genocidical 'Warp Speed 'project.And since then i watch him on a distance,wondering what really happened with him during that time and what were his real motives;was he with the back against the wall?were family members threatened?Was he part of the scamdemic plan?


Or was he -as some believe-only speeding up the inevitable so that the real agenda could be exposed to the awakening collective and by that detour save humankind from the develish plans of the globalists?..i really dont know & untill i do i will still give him the benefit of the doubt..(& enjoy his -sometimes-funny jokes). -

[T Smith]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
But I get it, I should have joined the party and laughed at Biden falling down the stairs if I wanted to post in that hilarious thread, and pretended that Trump was a great US president and will be an even more muchly huge big great US president again.

It seems to me you may be giving too much weight to this issue. What specific problem do you have with it? Mocking the president's dementia and physical inability to negotiate stairs or keep a bicycle upright, among other things, is a way to cope with the absolute ABSURDITY of the situation we all find ourselves in, that the leader of the free world (who was installed by saboteurs who really want to destroy the world--and kill us--) is a man who is in no way physically or mentally qualified to drive a vehicle (I doubt he would pass a driver's license renewal test--and no, I'm not trying to be funny), let alone assume the most important public office representing the people of the world, we who are all being groomed for slavery, at best, and/or culled right out in the open while Rome burns.

It's absurd, Dennis. There is no other way to understand this. And there is nothing funny about this. Although sometimes humor is the best medicine.

If Nero fiddled while Rome burned, I can only imagine what history will say of Joseph Robinette Biden. And yes, I'm sure he will be resoundingly mocked, for what it's worth.

We find ourselves in the world on the cusp of global war; we are abdicating all our inalienable rights and freedoms at light speed, and we are all being herded into a chute for slaughter, all as the leader of the free world (supposedly)--our leader--doesn't even know what planet he's living on.

In truth, this isn't funny at all--unless you're the powers who orchestrated this. The joke's on us.

[Dennis Leahy]

So, the last 2 posts (and there are many others in this thread) are Trump support, not talking about how Trump is not the answer. Don't worry, I'm not going to complain to management to have the posts moved elsewhere, but I am noting the irony.

The points I've tried to make are that Trump showed us he follows the same globalist agenda as Biden and the other modern US presidents. He vaguely claims to be anti-globalist, but he did everything the military intelligence industrial complex told him to do. I'm neither caught in the pro-Trump emotions or the anti-Trump emotions, but rather the facts, the record. Obama, Trump, and Biden are all on the same page with Syria, for example. How many US presidents in a row have taken a dump on the Palestinian people and supported the cabal who runs Israel? Bill Clinton and Trump were best buddies with Jeffrey Epstein. George W Bush, then Obama, then Trump, then Biden covered up 9/11. Trump, then Biden brought US bioweapons to the world, covered up the origins, and supported the supra-national main players in the pharmaceutical industry. How many US presidents in a row have worked with or averted their eyes/stood down while Big Agriculture and Agro-chem took over and control the food supply? All US presidents since at least Bill Clinton have aided in mass media ownership consolidation and brainwashing/mushrooming the public. Trump did nothing to reverse Obama's allowance of the US government to deceive and propagandize the American people.

Trump isn't different in substance, he's different in style. He's leading we the people down the globalist path just like all the others, carrying water for the globalist corporations - while holding up an anti-globalist placard. Trump wants the USA to remain as the lion tamer to the rest of the world, and promoted a record US military-intelligence budget - just like all the other US presidents for many decades. Obama codified torture as US policy, and Trump exuberantly applauds torture as a tactic. Obama threw whistleblowers in prison and Trump threw the prime whistleblower publisher, Assange, in prison. How many US presidents in a row have been anti-Arab racists, most of them primarily covertly, Trump overtly. Corporations have consolidated into larger corporations, creating monopolies over everything necessary for human survival, and Trump and all the other US presidents did nothing to stop them - and gave them tax breaks and stood down for federally codified absurdly low wages for workers and unlimited ill-gotten wealth for the corporate and financial elite. All US presidents since JFK have stood down, not stood up to, the international banking cartel that has America's testicles firmly in hand. Nero fiddled, Trump played the Jew's harp.

Sorry, but Trump's hilarious antics, his sideshow, aren't funny enough to erase the reality of his actions as US president from my mind. The sophomoric and lowbrow trolling are a smokescreen for Trump's actual actions while US president, and he is on-track to "make America great again" by - again - aiding and abetting the CIA/military intelligence industrial complex and globalist corporations world domination agenda.

The very things that the Democrats mock about Trump are what Trump supporters point to as his main accomplishments - his personality (tyrannical, authoritarian) and style (trollish, boorish, vacuous, and jingoistic.) For Trump to be comedy relief, he would have to actually be funny and actually be substantially different than the rest of the turds floating around the punchbowl. He's neither.

[T Smith]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
So, the last 2 posts (and there are many others in this thread) are Trump support, not talking about how Trump is not the answer. Don't worry, I'm not going to complain to management to have the posts moved elsewhere, but I am noting the irony.

This thread implies (at least to my mind) a discussion among members about the topic. I don't see the irony. In other words, Trump is NOT the answer: Discuss. Such a discussion will have posts that both support and refute the topic if this thread isn't just an echo chamber and its objective is hash out the (supposed) conclusion that Trump is NOT the answer. Also, there is nothing in my post above that implies Trump support (I didn't even mention Trump once)--I was just responding to your point about how inane (and inappropriate) it is to make fun of Biden.

But I do get where you're coming from, and I think this is probably the point you are making about the Trolling thread being a sycophantic echo chamber. Except that thread is not so much a discussion thread, per se, but a platform for posts that follow Trump as he trolls his adversaries. It's a David & Goliath thread that follows the efforts of David hurling stones at the giant, not a thread about whether David is an authentic opponent to the fight. I understand why the posts were moved here. This thread speaks more to the latter question and seems more appropriate for discussion that both criticizes and supports Trump as we get to the meat of the matter. Here's a question: is it possible to embrace both positions on varying issues? Or are we simply too polarized and binary-minded by the machinations of psyop to go there?

As far as I'm concerned, I do not consider the Trump is NOT the answer thread as an echo chamber for Trump haters. If I'm mistaken on that point I will refrain from disagreeing with any of the comments herein if they do not appear accurate or valid in my estimation, or if the OP or moderators correct me on that point. For me, I personally want to hash out whether Trump IS or IS NOT the answer. That's just me.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Trump showed us he follows the same globalist agenda as Biden and the other modern US presidents.

I appreciate your perspective, but I just don't see it. If Trump were truly a foot soldier for the globalist agenda, there would be no motive or reason to rig the 2020 election; there would be no motive or reason to weaponize the justice system against him (to such extreme where his adversaries are ready to Nelson Mandela him); there would be no reason or motive for any three-letter agency to move against his political agenda; there would be no reason or motive NOT to allow him to win back the presidency in 2024.

In short, Trump has HIS OWN agenda. That provides motive and reason enough for all the above.

We can certainly delve into some of Trump's shortcomings and failures reforming and liberating our vassal government from the talons of its globalist masters (and I'm sure you will have a laundry list of them), but that's entirely different from suggesting Trump is just another water-carrier for the NWO.

And of course, that's just my perspective.

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by T Smith (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
So, the last 2 posts (and there are many others in this thread) are Trump support, not talking about how Trump is not the answer. Don't worry, I'm not going to complain to management to have the posts moved elsewhere, but I am noting the irony.

This thread implies (at least to my mind) a discussion among members about the topic. I don't see the irony. In other words, Trump is NOT the answer: Discuss. Such a discussion will have posts that both support and refute the topic if this thread isn't just an echo chamber and its objective is hash out the (supposed) conclusion that Trump is NOT the answer. Also, there is nothing in my post above that implies Trump support (I didn't even mention Trump once)--I was just responding to your point about how inane (and inappropriate) it is to make fun of Biden.

But I do get where you're coming from, and I think this is probably the point you are making about the Trolling thread being a sycophantic echo chamber. Except that thread is not so much a discussion thread, per se, but a platform for posts that follow Trump as he trolls his adversaries. It's a David & Goliath thread that follows the efforts of David hurling stones at the giant, not a thread about whether David is an authentic opponent to the fight. I understand why the posts were moved here. This thread speaks more to the latter question and seems more appropriate for discussion that both criticizes and supports Trump as we get to the meat of the matter. Here's a question: is it possible to embrace both positions on varying issues? Or are we simply too polarized and binary-minded by the machinations of psyop to go there?

As far as I'm concerned, I do not consider the Trump is NOT the answer thread as an echo chamber for Trump haters. If I'm mistaken on that point I will refrain from disagreeing with any of the comments herein if they do not appear accurate or valid in my estimation, or if the OP or moderators correct me on that point. For me, I personally want to hash out whether Trump IS or IS NOT the answer. That's just me.

I don't want to spend too much effort on discussing the worthiness or appropriateness of a particular thread for a post to land in - it is somewhat subjective and is partially a balancing act that Bill and his mod team have tried to consider, like a good editor does. It's so easy for a well-meaning or for a nefariously-intentioned person to hijack threads or derail threads and spoil any semblance of intellectual discussion. A few years ago (I don't remember if I was a mod at that time), I tried to keep a thread on track or maybe I started a new thread (can't remember) calling for people to be conscious about protecting threads integrity, staying on topic. It wasn't received well. In fact, it spurred a member to (I believe playfully tease me and) start a new thread called the On Topic Thread , which remains active to this day, whereas my note about staying on topic immediately fell into oblivion.

I posted off-topic in the Trump The Greatest Troll thread after the thread was injected with (or, overtaken by) Trump fawning, what I'd call, Trump Adoration Syndrome. I see this syndrome the same as fawning over Blue Avians or Galactic Council or Barack Obama or Q or other psyops, liars, and psychopaths. Showing examples of Trump trolling was the topic (and some of it is funny), but was often (invariably?) followed with Trump Adoration Syndrome fawning comments. That was what I responded to, not the trolling topic.

This isn't 2015 with Trump the candidate, Trump the unknown, Trump the maverick, Trump the not-Hillary. Trump was US president for 4 years and has a real track record now. Real actions. Real policies. Supporting and fawning over Trump in 2015-16 made sense. Fawning over, glorifying, and misrepresenting Trump in 2023 does not.

This thread (Trump is not the answer) was started in 2016, before Trump had a track record of actions while US president. It's based on conjecture, the theme is conjecture. That is why I don't want to and don't plan to add my 2023 insights and examples of Trump's 2016-2020 track record here. This thread is dead.

Posted by T Smith (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Trump showed us he follows the same globalist agenda as Biden and the other modern US presidents.

I appreciate your perspective, but I just don't see it. If Trump were truly a foot soldier for the globalist agenda, there would be no motive or reason to rig the 2020 election; there would be no motive or reason to weaponize the justice system against him (to such extreme where his adversaries are ready to Nelson Mandela him); there would be no reason or motive for any three-letter agency to move against his political agenda; there would be no reason or motive NOT to allow him to win back the presidency in 2024.

In short, Trump has HIS OWN agenda. That provides motive and reason enough for all the above.

We can certainly delve into some of Trump's shortcomings and failures reforming and liberating our vassal government from the talons of its globalist masters (and I'm sure you will have a laundry list of them), but that's entirely different from suggesting Trump is just another water-carrier for the NWO.

And of course, that's just my perspective.

How about an unwitting foot soldier for the globalist agenda? As I've said elsewhere, I believe that Trump would pass a polygraph if asked whether he believes his agenda is to 'make America great', but what does that nebulous phrase mean? What is the metric for "great"? GDP? Jobs vs. unemployed? US global hegemony? Stock market?

Then there's the issue of who the Deep State actually is, and which of Trump's actions dovetailed with or were identical to Deep State agenda. The Deep State is people, people behind the curtain, people/families that are not subject to elections who rule regardless of election outcomes, (and what they own and control), not just a concept or ideology. Refer back to the 3D graph of the Global Corporate Network, with all the major corporations and more importantly, the lines drawn between and connecting the corporate nodes together into a network. That graph is the fingerprint of global wealth, ownership, dominance, and control. It's the financial fingerprint of the Deep State. (Not every corporate node has any controlling say as to the Deep State agenda, and many nodes are simply examples of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" business networking sense. But, they suck on the teat of the Deep State.) Saying "The American Empire" is incorrect, incomplete. It's really the Americentric Global Empire, and it is controlled by the Deep State. I cannot think of any of Trump's policies or actions while US president that were not supportive of Deep Sate agenda. As I've noted elsewhere, we can easily separate at least some of the Deep State agenda from the background noise by seeing which policies get handed, seamlessly, from president to president. We can see other examples by observing the impact of a policy or action on the Global Corporate Network.

I don't see Trump as a monster, a psychopathic member of the Deep State, and I suspect he believes he was (and hopes to be) fighting against them. But that doesn't mean he didn't (ignorantly?) support the Deep State in most if not all of his actions, his track record shows.

It's erroneous to say the Deep State doesn't want Trump to be president - he was allowed to, in 2016, by the Deep State. He sure as hell played ball with the Deep State, regardless his rhetoric or polygraph test results. To the Deep State, Trump was and is yet another pawn, and he played his role well, for them. They don't care if he becomes president again in 2024. The Democrats (the core of the DNC cabal, not the hapless Democrat voters) don't want Trump to be president, they want that seat for more direct control, for themselves, over the flow of cash through the Deep State owned Global Corporate Network. The DNC, like the RNC, is a mob family at least one level beneath the Deep State global mob lords. The DNC mob has gained control over almost all of the mass media "news" outlets, and would be using everything at their disposal to undermine ANY non-DNC candidate that threatened to take away their direct access to the skim off the Global Corporate Network.

Evidently, the DOJ is controlled by the ruling party too, and the DNC fears losing to Trump and the DNC currently controlled DOJ has brought unprecedented bogus legal charges/indictments against Trump - but don't confuse and conflate DNC objective with Deep State objective. The Deep State knows they can work with Trump (proven track record), and they can work with whoever the DNC props up as its candidate-puppet as well. It may be well within Deep State objectives of division and polarization of US citizens to continue to obfuscate who is really in control behind the curtain - the Deep State.

[Ernie Nemeth]

In 2016 he won against long odds, against the Clinton machine. It was not supposed to happen. But it did.

The deep state got thwarted that time. That is why they pulled out all the stops to steal the election in 2020.
That is when we saw the hand of the deep state reach out from the depths of the abyss, make unholy alliances, and no longer hide in the shadows.

The one thing we learned is that the deep state is not American, or Chinese, or Russian. It is a consortium of officials from many countries and organizations acting as a unified whole.
We also learned that the deep state is not all powerful, all-knowing, or in complete control.
They can be beaten.
Trump taught us that - along with the vast majority of American patriots who voted for him in the last two elections.

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
In 2016 he won against long odds, against the Clinton machine. It was not supposed to happen. But it did.

The deep state got thwarted that time. That is why they pulled out all the stops to steal the election in 2020.
That is when we saw the hand of the deep state reach out from the depths of the abyss, make unholy alliances, and no longer hide in the shadows.

The one thing we learned is that the deep state is not American, or Chinese, or Russian. It is a consortium of officials from many countries and organizations acting as a unified whole.
We also learned that the deep state is not all powerful, all-knowing, or in complete control.
They can be beaten.
Trump taught us that - along with the vast majority of American patriots who voted for him in the last two elections.

You should supply some facts or at least logical reasons for your assertions.

Your understanding of the Deep State that controls the Americentric Empire is incorrect. Israel, Canada, France, Russia, Germany, China, Australia... all have their own Deep State, their own small cluster of oligarchs and families that rule (or control at least some of the agenda, in the case of American-controlled vassal States, like Canada) from behind the curtain and are not subject to election cycles.

You'd be correct that the Deep State that controls the Americentric Empire is not "Americans" (US citizens) in essence, but rather individuals that see themselves as supra-national, above nation states, though probably all hold a US passport.

The Deep State I'm referring to didn't get permission from German oligarchs to blow up the Nordstream pipeline. The Deep State I'm referring to didn't ask for opinions from other countries' oligarchs before they murdered JFK. The Americentric Deep State orchestrated 9/11, quite probably hiring thugs from Israel (Mossad) to handle explosives, but Russia and China and Germany and France and Australia and on and on and on didn't plan or orchestrate 9/11, the Americentric Deep State did. The Deep State I'm referring to doesn't control the whole world, yet, with specific examples being Russia and China.

Either the Americentric Deep State is so powerful that the almighty Donald Trump could not dare to investigate 9/11 or be assassinated, or he was a coward for other reasons.

Either the Americentric Deep State controls high-office elections in the USA, Inc. (both by controlling the number of relevant political parties at 2, and by controlling those 2 parties, as well as by vote tabulation shenanigans and Supreme Court election interference) and simply assassinates any fluke, rogue president that they can't control, or else they don't. If they don't (your assertion), they are pretty weak and lost a lot of power since they blew JFK's skull wide open in broad daylight. Because the Deep State wins every presidential election before it even happens, by making sure that whichever of the 2 wins will follow their agenda, they - usually - really don't care who wins.

There have been 3 US presidential elections in the past couple of decades that were "stolen" (my conjecture, but I'll back it up with some substance.) Gore beat GW Bush but the Supreme Court stepped in and stopped the vote counting. I think this was a Deep State move, because 9/11 was already planned and they didn't want to deviate from the known guy who they knew would immediately 'play ball', the Bush crime syndicate member. The next one was H. Clinton and Trump: I strongly suspect that she had won the vote, but because Seth Rich and Julian Assange and Wikileaks had just exposed her Deep State-tied international high-level criminal behavior, she was too much a liability and could expose them as she was investigated, so they gave it to Trump. Both Clinton and Trump were stunned by the outcome in 2016. It may have been a slight gamble by the Deep State to give it to Trump, but he had campaigned hard on military-intelligence support, a critical promise, and besides, they had Pence in the pocket if Trump needed to be shot by a lone (DNC) gunman. Then, 2020 was stolen by the DNC, not the Deep State. Both Trump and Biden were known commodities, both would do the Deep State's bidding, follow their agenda, so, that time, the Deep State didn't care which one of their assets won. The DNC cared very much, and stole it.

If you want to go back one more election cycle than Bush/Gore, you'll get to Bush/Kerry, two Skull and Bonesmen, Deep State affiliates, and the Deep State didn't care which one won, so that may have been done by the actual vote count. The Deep State isn't stupid enough to overtly flip every election back-to-back-to back, but when it suits their agenda, they do. The "winner" will do their bidding, and I can point out at least a dozen of Trump's actions that were not "good for America" or good for Americans, or for the environment that Americans live in, but all in the Deep State's interests, as shown also by the Global Corporate Network and NYSE stock market.

[Ernie Nemeth]

There is a difference between the permanent government and the deep state.

The deep state is international. It may not have been, or most likely we had not yet noticed it was, but it became very obvious during the covid scare. Many facts came out during that period that pointed to the fact that the deep state involves players from many countries and disciplines. Facts are everywhere on this site. WEF comes to mind with their training of young influential globalists and how Swab boasted he had 'penetrated' the cabinets of many countries. That is the deep state. The non-elected bureaucrats may or may not be part of that cabal.

As for the American elections, you are the expert, not me. I do remember the Gore debacle in Florida. Again, I believe that the deep state had not yet completely hacked the electoral system. In certain states, sure. Like California, Oregon, others. Can't much argue that. But in the 'battle-ground' states I don't think it was yet a shoe -in. In 2020 we saw election rigging like never before. So many hands were caught in the cookie jar: China, Spain, Iran, Gates, Soros, Zuckerburg, UN, 6 battle-ground state AGs plus lackeys, Dominion and other election companies, DNC, Clinton Foundation, and many other players and NCOs.

My question to you, since this could get far longer otherwise, is: Can we attribute anything to Trump's presidency? Does he get an overall thumbs up or no? (and I am aware of the thread title, so go for it...)

[onawah]

The explanation from Dennis makes more sense than anything I've heard so far. (Post #1330)
What I don't understand is why anyone would want to run for office in the first place, given all the inherent perils, unless they actually think they can make good changes (which RFK probably does, and more credit to him).
In Trump's case, I think it is as much a matter of ego as anything.
He would be a better choice than Biden for obvious reasons, but foremost might simply be that he would be less of an embarrassment for the US and Americans could certainly use an ego boost.
If he would team up with RFK, they might have a better chance of surviving the forces allayed against them both.
If they could close the border and get the US out of the WHO, WEF web, that would be wonderful, but would certainly take some doing.
The Deep State, however it may be defined, will likely implode the way all such tyrannies do in time.
I think the best we can do in the meantime is simply to keep chipping away at it wherever it is most vulnerable.

[T Smith]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
How about an unwitting foot soldier for the globalist agenda?

Hmmm... still doesn't pass the stink test for me. An unwitting foot soldier would be an ideal candidate to advance, groom, support, and ultimately control. The perfect puppet. Do you see any specific evidence of this? But I do acknowledge Trump was an unwitting foot soldier in the Big-Pharma fueled COVID psyop. My guess is he faced a Sophie's Choice scenario (wittingly or otherwise), had his back against the wall, and either understood (or caught on real quick) he had been played in a lose-lose scenario (not sure what choice he had, but that's a debate/discussion for another time).

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
I cannot think of any of Trump's policies or actions while US president that were not supportive of Deep Sate agenda

I'd like to see your laundry list and the specific supporting evidence or reasoning to advance this assertion. For example, in previous posts you point out Deep-State servant Trump continued Bush/Obama's war in Syria (which may be how it appears from a 2-dimensional perspective), but it's simply not true. On the contrary, Trump's policy was to withdraw from Syria, completely and abruptly. This enraged the Deep State, who then moved cunningly against this policy. Trump faced a mutiny within his own ranks (among many, many other mutinies on similar policy issues counter to Deep-State interests).

The referenced article is not an apology piece. It is highly critical of Trump, and in fact, is written from a Deep-State perspective. The article also cross-references many other articles on this subject, all with the same tenor, and all which sheds light on Trump's Syria policy, which is completely counter the Bush/Obama/Deep State policy.

But allow me to translate some key terms in those series of articles. "The Adults in the Room" are those who carry water for the Deep State. POTUS Trump, who needs a lesson, is the recalcitrant infant who seemingly doesn't understand how the power structure really works. Sometimes the child needs to be cajoled, tricked, or banished to the corner when he's misbehaving.

The short of it is, Trump's team, i.e., those tasked to execute policy, found cause and ways to explicitly circumvent and ignore the objective to pull out of Syria. I've thrown the analogy out there before: how does the captain of a large aircraft carrier turn about a ship heading straight for an iceberg when all his warrant officers, crew, and mess-hall cooks are in complete mutiny?

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
It's erroneous to say the Deep State doesn't want Trump to be president - he was allowed to, in 2016, by the Deep State... [Regarding the 2016 Clinton/Trump election]: I strongly suspect that she had won the vote, but because Seth Rich and Julian Assange and Wikileaks had just exposed her Deep State-tied international high-level criminal behavior, she was too much a liability and could expose them as she was investigated, so they gave it to Trump. Both Clinton and Trump were stunned by the outcome in 2016.

There is an alternative explanation. From various high-ranking whistleblowers in military intelligence who say otherwise. According to these sources, Ernie is correct. Trump was recruited to run for POTUS years before (and even groomed for it), but on a Pro-American/Anti-Globalist platform. This faction in the military/intelligence community (however small or clandestine it may be) understood the American people had selected a Deep-State puppeteer ever since the JFK assassination/Deep-State coup. That is, every president since 1963 has been been bidding for the globalist agenda and advancing a NWO/genocide endgame. So, yes, Clinton was allowed to run and was slated to win in 2016 (she would have been an outstanding servant to the cause) and in fact, that election was even rigged to assure she would win. Not by ballot-stuffing (which 2020 required), or by stopping the count (also required in 2020), but by the Hammer and Scorecard program that assured a Clinton victory. However, the military intelligence faction, the "White Hats", if you will, successfully disabled the Hammer and Scorecard on Election Day 2016 to allow for a true vote count. The system was hacked....

The result? Trump crushes Clinton in 2016.

The story continues:

Clinton, the Deep State, the RNC, and the DNC are taken aback and utterly shocked. Dumbfounded. They realize they were "asleep" at the wheel and were essentially punked by rogue actors. They quite arrogantly did not see that curve ball coming. But they knew for sure foul play was involved, since they had rigged the machines to assure the Clinton presidency.

And so there was foul play, just like Clinton said, if one considers leveling the playing field a method of cheating.

To counter this attack, Clinton et. al concocted the "Russian Interference" narrative, which falsely placed the blame (albeit via an elementary-school explanation so the public might understand) on a foreign-power boogyman. The DNC, with all the blessings and resources of the DS, went hard after Trump, impeaching him twice, hoping to remove him from office swiftly. To their further shock, nothing seem to work to remove Trump from office. So to remedy any damage the duly-elected and rogue POTUS might afflict on the global agenda (pulling all Troops out of Syria, for example) they doubled down and waged a brutal character assassination campaign not only against Trump, but also against his allies and supporters and anyone who dared associate with Trump. That war rages on today.

All said, I understand this in not how you view the Trump/Clinton 2016 election, nor the Trump Presidency. It may be true, it may be exaggerated, it may be entirely untrue. Take it up with the whistleblowers, who are nonetheless credible, and who have impressive and impeccable service credentials. To put a final cap on it, the whistleblowers' explanation does makes sense to me.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
The Democrats (the core of the DNC cabal, not the hapless Democrat voters) don't want Trump to be president, they want that seat for more direct control, for themselves, over the flow of cash through the Deep State owned Global Corporate Network....The DNC mob has gained control over almost all of the mass media "news" outlets, and would be using everything at their disposal to undermine ANY non-DNC candidate that threatened to take away their direct access to the skim off the Global Corporate Network.

So we're not continually talking past each other, I should address this point. You often say, "yeah, yeah, but it's the DNC Cabal attacking Trump, not the Deep State. The Deep State is politically neutral. Trump was POTUS 2016-2020 (and may become POTUS again), he is therefore a Deep State asset. Witting or otherwise." If I am misrepresenting your views, please correct me.

I can't stress enough how differently I view this. The "DNC Cabal" and "Deep State Cabal" are essentially the same entity for all intents and purposes, all aligned to the same agenda and objective, all entwined together like a grotesquely entangled web. Except there are layers to this web that serve differing, but necessary functions, all organized from the top-down. The highest layers of unelected technocrats and social engineers, who are in no way accountable to the people, set and make policy. Think Davos, Bilderberger, Club of Rome, CFR, Rothchild banking cabal, etc., etc. To render these policy objectives down to its simplest core, think Georgia Guidestones.

Then there is an intermediate layer of multinational corporations, motivated by greed, whose deeds nonetheless serve the interests of the entire Entity. Think Big-Pharma, Big-Agra, Military Industrial Complex, the Security State, etc. This level doesn't care if it's killing or enslaving people; it cares about making $ for its shareholders. Greed is thus used an incentive, a type of fix, to do the heavy lifting for the agenda.

And then there is a lower layer, the politicians, who serve as political assets for the unelected tiers above. The politicians tacit job is to carry out said agenda in the previous two paragraphs. The political assets of the Deep State are essentially water-carriers tasked with a "public relations" mission to keep the plebs at bay while the real powers wage an anti-human agenda. Think of the DNC and RNC as "managers" or "employees", or "salesmen", financed, paid for, (and working for) the upper levels. Their job is to placate the masses with handouts and candy, while they assure the greed consortium (which does the heavy lifting) gets its fix. Both objectives ultimately serve the same function.

Is Trump really a part of this web? As a business man, formally part of that system--or at least privy to it--he certainly may grant favors to multinational corporations, but only if he judges such favor is in the interest of America, not to a globalist agenda.

Let's consider:

Every now and then a rogue actor may come along--and may even be elected--who doesn't understand how the system works. But he/she is readily and swiftly crushed and kicked out of the club (or terminated, if necessary), as easily as a horse swatting flies from its ass.

It's obvious this is what they are doing to Trump, but they just can't get at that damn fly....

The "revolving-door" level, the political class, is something we the people are most familiar with, since it is recycled by the people periodically, providing an illusion of democracy and sovereignty while producing a complacent populace. If the political class is tasked to kick out an outsider from the club, the directive would be in sync with objectives above.

How do I know this? Because I see so many actors and organizations not affiliated specifically with the political class (except by tacitly assumed connection) who not only orchestrated/cooperated/executed the Big Steal, but who also continue to wage the vicious war against DJT and his populist agenda, including the weaponization of their three-letter agencies and justice system, and including winding up their RNC assets to go after one of their own. Billionaires, multinational corporations, and social engineering organizations who bankroll the political class (both RNC and DNC) come to mind, e.g. George Soros, Mark Zuckerberg, etc. The Deep State propaganda apparatus, Google, Twitter, MSM, which is designed for both DNC and RNC voters (it wouldn't be effective otherwise), but which is NOT designed for MAGA voters, also comes to mind. This Deep State alliance has even branded all those who dare support Trump as "criminals" and "domestic terrorists." Half the country? Really? That's a kind of extreme dehumanization we haven't seen since the days of Hitler's Third Reich. And it's all because there is a cancer within the Entity that is metastasizing and need be excised.

I ask, are all these players just loyal Democrats who hate Trump? How does that make any sense? Or are they the power centers tasking their political assets in both parties to excise the cancer?

We all already know all this, so apologies for the winded treatise. Bottom line: there really is no real distinction between the parties, so it doesn't make sense for one party to persecute the other--if indeed the former truly belongs to the club. An infiltrator masquerading as a party member, however, and moreover organizing an upheaval, is a different story. In case one hasn't paid close attention, there is exactly such a rebellion afoot against the unholy alliance of Deep State Layers within a small sect of one of the parties, called MAGA, owned and operated by DJT.

How it all ends, I don't know. But that's how I see it, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't take the leap to see Trump as part of the Deep State. The pieces just don't fit....

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Your understanding of the Deep State that controls the Americentric Empire is incorrect. Israel, Canada, France, Russia, Germany, China, Australia. all have their own Deep State, their own small cluster of oligarchs and families that rule (or control at least some of the agenda, in the case of American-controlled vassal States, like Canada) from behind the curtain and are not subject to election cycles.

Sure. Pockets of fiefdoms and kingdoms across the globe, not unlike the Old World Order. None will challenge the Empire's interests, though, for risk of starting a World War. Nor will they take the Empire to task for blowing up a pipeline, say--even as it hurts their interests--as all these atomized DS pockets are more or less content within the pecking order.

The Americentic Empire is really an Anglocentric Order, as I see it, and all roads lead to and through DC because America so happens to have the brawn and financial power to advance the Empire's agenda. In other words, America, itself, is being exploited as a Deep State asset. Its military advances an Anti-American agenda (with irony) while its reserve currency finances it all. The American Republic has been duped, and its well-to-do citizens (relative to the rest of the world) are too fat and sassy and dumbed down to notice, least of all understand it. I'm thinking of the movie Wall-E here... But I suspect all that will soon change and come to an abrupt end.

If you have any evidence that suggests I'm off base on anything I've laid out above, by all means, bring it. I'll consider.

[DNA]

T Smith, you hit all your points so well. I'm always amazed to see you articulate what I feel so perfectly. I would go back to school if they would teach a class on how to be T Smith

Dennis you are the poster boy for how propaganda works on the hope of hippies.
Dennis you need to let go of how you want things to be long enough to see how they really are.

[thepainterdoug]

Not perfect, needing to work within a corrupt system he didn't create , needing to play ball to get anything done, and all things unimaginable against him and his families safety , and considering the alternatives available, Trump remains the only answer for me.

[onawah]

Thanks to TSmith for really getting to the nitty gritty.
All those faction playing against each other makes for a very complex scenario, but that was probably as good an analysis as anyone could do, short of a very deep insider.
I think perhaps Dark Journalist has been onto something significant with his focus on Trump's uncle who was a very deep insider, all that having to do with the X Files, ie ET presence.
I think that is Trump's trump card in a way, and that he still has support from high places, though that doesn't necessarily ensure that he knows how to play the game very well as yet.
But then, considering how complicated it has all become, that's certainly no wonder...

[Dennis Leahy]

T Smith, Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to eloquently lay out your perspective on this. I don't want to offer a quick kneejerk response - it'll take me some time to go over your points. You may be 100% correct in every one of your perceptions, and I very much appreciate the dialogue.

Note that I realize that Trump at first made overtures to work with Russia, for example, and that it makes perfect sense to me that the Deep State stepped in and squashed that idea, as they have a 747-sized bug up their ass about Russia, going back to the USSR, at least. My question would be not about intent but action. What did Trump actually do, even if he was forced to do it? What did Trump ultimately do in Syria, even if he was forced to do it? Didn't he follow Deep State agenda? Also, the Deep State has a mighty big fly swatter and could make Trump go bye bye tomorrow morning - and pin it on some DNC patsy. I don't want Trump to die to prove your point, but I can't believe they want him sidelined and are suddenly inept at regime change, their specialty.

I'll leave those quick observations from my perspective and go get some sleep. I'll decide if I want to stick to my previous thought and go ahead and "laundry list" Trump's actions as US president in a new thread, as well as yet another new thread where I would present my views on what a good US president would do in office, to explore the "sin of omission" in policy - or continue a sort of ping-pong dialogue. If Trump wins next year (which I think he will), would it matter if his constituency provided a list of policy objectives on domestic and foreign policy that came from citizens, so that citizens could actually be represented, or is that a naive and stupid idea because Trump doesn't intend to be a representative of the people but rather has his own agenda? (The US is neither operating as a democracy nor a republic and we citizens have no representation now and have not for many many decades, or maybe more accurately for 247 years. So, if Trump wants to remain autocratic like 2016 to 2020, and as all the other presidents have done, maybe less overtly, that would just fall in line with the history of the US presidency.) I'm sure there must be Trump supporters (I'm assuming, such as yourself) that would prefer to be heard and be represented, rather than just accept the notion that he is going to somehow "make America great again", and grab a bag of popcorn.

Geez, 3am. Sleep calls.

[T Smith]

Posted by onawah (here)
Thanks to TSmith for really getting to the nitty gritty.
All those faction playing against each other makes for a very complex scenario, but that was probably as good an analysis as anyone could do, short of a very deep insider.
I think perhaps Dark Journalist has been onto something significant with his focus on Trump's uncle who was a very deep insider, all that having to do with the X Files, ie ET presence.
I think that is Trump's trump card in a way, and that he still has support from high places, though that doesn't necessarily ensure that he knows how to play the game very well as yet.
But then, considering how complicated it has all become, that's certainly no wonder...

Hi Onawha,

Thank you for the kind words.

If readily available, would you please provide links and/or direct me to the Dark Journalist material on Trump you find most relevant? In the meantime, I'll start digging for them as well.

My understanding is (and this is on absolutely no authority) Trump's uncle was associated with Tesla and the family is in possession of Tesla technology. The uncle was, as you mentioned, a deep insider. Tentacles of that network include high intelligence factions in the military and comprise the "Trump Team" behind the curtain. The theory is, Team Trump is in possession of looking-glass or time-travel technology, both of which, as we know, only provide probabilities (this technology may be how, or may have aided, Trump's rise to billionaire status at such a young age?). In any case, my guess is, the objective to successfully exploit looking-glass technology would entail tweaking the present, or "driving" the present toward the most favorable probability outcome. It's probably more of an "art" or a "game of finesse" than anything else.

For example, if the looking glass shows both a nuclear holocaust where no humans survive, and also a timeline where humans avert disaster and thrive--but let's say the latter timeline requires (or shows) a political martyr like Trump as its catalyst, perhaps to ensure that timeline the martyr must be persecuted unjustly and go to jail (per the data)--that might explain all the Trump baiting.

In other words the secret Trump Team knows something the rest of us don't, and this is driving a lot of their actions/decisions.

This is just a speculative example. I have no idea if any of this is valid or solid info, but I'd like to hear the Dark Journalist's take.

Interestingly, I'm sure most or all Avalon members interested in these things have heard of Ingersoll Lockwood's writings, from the late 1800s, The Barron Trump Collection, that follow the Travels and Adventures of Little Barron Trump and his Wonderful Dog Bulger, Baron Trump's Marvelous Underground Journey, and (eerily), The Last President. I haven't read them all yet (the writing style is somewhat dense and hard to follow), but the similarities and character development of these "fictionalized" stories and its "fictionalized" protagonist bear an uncanny resemblance to the one and only, or to the real Baron Trump circa 2023, if we only take the liberty to ascribe DJT's personality on him, including, among other things, living atop a castle on Fifth Avenue. Even the illustration on the book cover bears a spitting image to the Baron Trump we all know, (or to perhaps a younger version of DJT).

Just a fun aside that makes you go, hmmm...

[onawah]

Very interesting! I had never heard of Lockwoods's writing. That's even more baffling than the prediction by Werner von Braun that someone named "Elon" would become a major focus of attention.
It definitely does make you go hmmmmm...
I will see what I can dig up from Dark Journalist's episodes relating to Trump and I will post them here.
Perhaps Trump's amazing resilience and seemingly impenetrable hide can be attributed to this:

Posted by T Smith (here)
My understanding is (and this is on absolutely no authority) Trump's uncle was associated with Tesla and the family is in possession of Tesla technology. The uncle was, as you mentioned, a deep insider. Tentacles of that network include high intelligence factions in the military and comprise the "Trump Team" behind the curtain. The theory is, Team Trump is in possession of looking-glass or time-travel technology, both of which, as we know, only provide probabilities (this technology may be how, or may have aided, Trump's rise to billionaire status at such a young age?). In any case, my guess is, the objective to successfully exploit looking-glass technology would entail tweaking the present, or "driving" the present toward the most favorable probability outcome. It's probably more of an "art" or a "game of finesse" than anything else.

For example, if the looking glass shows both a nuclear holocaust where no humans survive, and also a timeline where humans avert disaster and thrive--but let's say the latter timeline requires (or shows) a political martyr like Trump as its catalyst, perhaps to ensure that timeline the martyr must be persecuted unjustly and go to jail (per the data)--that might explain all the Trump baiting.

In other words the secret Trump Team knows something the rest of us don't, and this is driving a lot of their actions/decisions.

This is just a speculative example. I have no idea if any of this is valid or solid info, but I'd like to hear the Dark Journalist's take.

Interestingly, I'm sure most or all Avalon members interested in these things have heard of Ingersoll Lockwood's writings, from the late 1800s, The Barron Trump Collection, that follow the Travels and Adventures of Little Barron Trump and his Wonderful Dog Bulger, Baron Trump's Marvelous Underground Journey, and (eerily), The Last President. I haven't read them all yet (the writing style is somewhat dense and hard to follow), but the similarities and character development of these "fictionalized" stories and its "fictionalized" protagonist bear an uncanny resemblance to the one and only, or to the real Baron Trump circa 2023, if we only take the liberty to ascribe DJT's personality on him, including, among other things, living atop a castle on Fifth Avenue. Even the illustration on the book cover bears a spitting image to the Baron Trump we all know, (or to perhaps a younger version of DJT).

Just a fun aside that makes you go, hmmm...

[onawah]

Here are some good places to start:
https://www.darkjournalist.com/x-facts-x4.php
and
https://www.darkjournalist.com/s-xseries19.php

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OpzmNSaF47Y

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZGuQWpJZhh8