I am sorry but I have to let it out

[superior88]

Warning: “I am not trying to offend or insult anyone. I love you all guys”. I want to talk about the Israel-Palestine conflict and other related topics. but I want to be fully open and express it in fair way

keep in mind, I am not involving religion or anything, its more about 2 entities.
Supposedly, I should have posted this 3 days ago, but I was not able. So all information details based on that date.

Lets forget everything before 7thOct, I will assume before 7th, Israel and Palestine were living together peacefully in harmony as well. So on 7th Oct, the massacre happened (citing the Israeli media) when Hamas fighters attacked Israeli civilians and decapitated more than 100 babies and killing more than 1800 innocent Israeli (I am trying to be generous with numbers) including people who were just celebrating, and damaging more than 200 residential units and causing horrify time for people. Based on that, Hamas and its allies should be called terrorists, criminals and animals. they should be condemned punished and destroyed for what they did and to avoid such scenario in future.
I am good with that. However, what do you call creatures who killed more than 2500 babies. Some of them torn out into parts of human bodies, killing more than 7000 civilians and 18000 wounded and injured, leveling more than 50000 residential units and more than 25 hospitals so far, prohibiting all basic needs (food, water, electricity, medical aids…etc)!! I think if we call Hamas animals and condemn them, then calling who doing much more than that animal is an offence to animal itself. those are demons monsters and should be condemned cursed and more.

I mean Israel response comes (again citing their media) because of killing innocent Israeli civilians!
I do understand some will consider this as self-defense response. but if we were talking about third world country, then this would make sense with their limited power and limited technology and resources. But when we are talking about most advanced equipped army? It’s a joke to see such a response in an attempt to destroy their opponent. Its like someone slapping your face and you react by stabbing everyone randomly and you hope one of them is him. don’t forget such response will create 10 versions of Hamas.
We, Arab, as third world countries don’t have experience to fake, fabricate news or brainwash audience. unlike western media which are very expert and professional in doing so. And they control almost all social networks. Hence, as Arab, we watch news from Arabic sources as it really is, which is different from what west watch and reality is much worse than what is mentioned. And don’t forget the clear double standards as Ukraine-Russia & Israel-Palestine conflict…though they have similarity and common causes.
Ok, maybe I am wrong with everything I have said. Now let’s go to the shooter accident which happened in Lewiston recently. One guy killed 20 innocent persons. based on Israel plan to eradicate such terrorist attacks which is fully supported by USA: following same guideline, first : they have to siege minimum 5 Km in radius where shooter lives. Destroy every grocery and supermarket so he Cant find food or drink then destroy every hospital available so once he starts starving and his immune system getting weak he cant find a place to get treatment then if he is able to survive all this. Kill everyone in his neighborhood so he will stay alone and die lonely? But the US gov didn’t do any!! Something wrong with plan? Nope something wrong with assumption. He is not terrorist he is not a killer he is just a victim of pressure and mind instability maybe due to taxation so we just need to find him and pat on his shoulder and whisper at his ears “everything will be fine”. Because he is not Arab neither Muslim!! Isn’t that how media name people and interpret their actions?

What really hitting my nerve, and I guess many like me, is how US acting like the world its toy. And no country dares to stand against it, none. I mean they are doing their **** around the globe. They messed up with Russia through Ukraine, middle east through Iraq, China through Taiwan, North Korea through South Korea and the list go on…
I remember there was an interview back to earlier than 2000s with some US gov representer (I really cant remember who was but I recall what he said very clearly) he was talking about US plan he said that first stage to take down 7 Arab countries (Syria-Lebanon-Iraq-Yemen-Libya-Sudan-Egypt) next target will be Iran then Russia then China.

now the real question after what I said. What if I were on wrong side! how can I make sure I am picking the right side? I mean after all, everything is relative and subjective including truth, right? Yes but there are some basic common ground. I mean simple logic.
most of us here believe that gov and globalists run the world, governments either bad or puppet (if that were not the case, the world wouldn’t have been in such chaos)
so if those same governments support Israel and what they doing clearly and publicly, the truth become clear. And please don’t tell me that some countries(governments) condemned Israel…only words no action even basic food medical aids they have been unable to send, so please spare me this debate.
And just imagine USA, the country with the most bloodbath history country (starting from killing native American/ Hiroshima, Vietnam, Iraq, Libya …etc) supports Israel infinitely. Yet you are still confused?

I apologize if i was harsh and went too far but At the end, it is said
“killing one person is a tragedy, but killing thousands is just a statistics”

[Harmony]

I think it is good you can say what is on your mind. I am fairly sure most people on this forum do not think innocent people suffering and dying are just a statistic.

I think when one person is suffering we all suffer.

[Rizotto]

Thank you for that important analysis. Most western countries are run by an evil globalist cabal whose ultimate goal is world control, and even depopulation. They control most western leaders which is why these leaders all seem to act in unison, against the expressed wish of their own populations. (With a few exceptions.) Right now, the cabal's military power is mostly manifested through the USA-Isreal axis, with NATO members as cheerleaders.

I can tell you that many here in Canada clearly see Isreal's attack on Gaza as a genocide. But our Turdeau regime will only toe the cabal's line and won't speak up. On the other hand, I'm shocked to see so many christian zionists in USA and Canada trying to suppress any criticism of Isreal's crimes. Obviously, they've been conned by means of the most insidious mind-control campaign. It's the only way to describe that, and it's scary.

The cabal will most likely expand the current Gaza genocide to other countries in the near future. They've been planning to instigate WW3 for a while, but recently felt very threatened by the BRICS' success, so now are trying to start a big conflagration in a hurry. It really looks like October 7 was mostly a staged event, where Isreali armed forces were told to stand down for hours on end. The cabal really wants to conquer Syria too, and Iran, and Russia, and probably China as well. But ultimately they'll be aiming at undermining the western populations themselves. That has already started. It's quite obvious that the USA civil society is falling apart, with hyperinflation, homelessness, rampant drug addictions coming in through an open border. The latest estimate is that 10 millions of illegal migrants are now in the USA. That's more than enough for major destabilization and deadly chaos. All of which planned.

The genocide of Gaza is horribly gut-wrenching. There have been huge demonstrations against Isreal's crimes around the world, and in my home town. Even the UN spoke out against it. None of that has stopped the Isreali armed forces, so far. It really looks like they're aiming at getting Iran and Hezbollah involved, and eventually Russia.

[Isserley]

@superior88, everything you wrote makes sense. What makes no sense is choosing sides in this conflict.
As already stated in another thread, the only side that makes sense to choose is that of children and civilians who suffer the most in the whole story.
The world is ruled by dark forces and it is becoming more and more evident.. I just hope the end is near for them because this helplessness is becoming unbearable.

[superior88]

Posted by Rizotto (here)
Thank you for that important analysis. Most western countries are run by an evil globalist cabal whose ultimate goal is world control, and even depopulation. They control most western leaders which is why these leaders all seem to act in unison, against the expressed wish of their own populations. (With a few exceptions.) Right now, the cabal's military power is mostly manifested through the USA-Isreal axis, with NATO members as cheerleaders.

I can tell you that many here in Canada clearly see Isreal's attack on Gaza as a genocide. But our Turdeau regime will only toe the cabal's line and won't speak up. On the other hand, I'm shocked to see so many christian zionists in USA and Canada trying to suppress any criticism of Isreal's crimes. Obviously, they've been conned by means of the most insidious mind-control campaign. It's the only way to describe that, and it's scary.

The cabal will most likely expand the current Gaza genocide to other countries in the near future. They've been planning to instigate WW3 for a while, but recently felt very threatened by the BRICS' success, so now are trying to start a big conflagration in a hurry. It really looks like October 7 was mostly a staged event, where Isreali armed forces were told to stand down for hours on end. The cabal really wants to conquer Syria too, and Iran, and Russia, and probably China as well. But ultimately they'll be aiming at undermining the western populations themselves. That has already started. It's quite obvious that the USA civil society is falling apart, with hyperinflation, homelessness, rampant drug addictions coming in through an open border. The latest estimate is that 10 millions of illegal migrants are now in the USA. That's more than enough for major destabilization and deadly chaos. All of which planned.

The genocide of Gaza is horribly gut-wrenching. There have been huge demonstrations against Isreal's crimes around the world, and in my home town. Even the UN spoke out against it. None of that has stopped the Isreali armed forces, so far. It really looks like they're aiming at getting Iran and Hezbollah involved, and eventually Russia.

I agree with you and unfortunately we can only watch and predict how its going but nothing to do. awareness sometimes is a curse.

Posted by Harmony (here)
I think it is good you can say what is on your mind. I am fairly sure most people on this forum do not think innocent people suffering and dying are just a statistic.

I think when one person is suffering we all suffer.

I agree with you but i am talking about the politicians and media who are in control, i am sure none of us thinking this way and thats why i love you guys

Posted by Isserley (here)
@superior88, everything you wrote makes sense. What makes no sense is choosing sides in this conflict.
As already stated in another thread, the only side that makes sense to choose is that of children and civilians who suffer the most in the whole story.
The world is ruled by dark forces and it is becoming more and more evident.. I just hope the end is near for them because this helplessness is becoming unbearable.

true and thats why i tried to be my best to be fair with my words as possible as i can. however, i am not sure keeping neutral is right thing in such pathetic world. we have to pick side and as you said picking the side of innocent people is least thing we can do

[Bill Ryan]

Many thanks for your impassioned post. There's only one thing (apart from the fake 'beheaded babies' story, which was quickly retracted with a rather lame apology) that wasn't quite the case, which was this:

Posted by superior88 (here)
I will assume before 7th, Israel and Palestine were living together peacefully in harmony as well.

I understand you may well have 'started on 7 October', to express everything you wanted to, but of course the relations between Israel and Palestine have been the very opposite of peaceful even since Israel violently (and murderously!) took over Palestinian land in 1947-48.

That, combined with historical issues that began even before then, is the root of the entire problem. That problem can't be solved until the many previous brutal injustices have been addressed. It didn't just suddenly start out of nowhere on 7 October.

One 'good' thing that has happened as a result of all this — whether it was planned by Hamas or not — is that most of the world is now fully aware of the urgent need for a two-state solution, for Palestine's recognized and secure sovereignty as a nation-state in its own right. Israel and the US have always opposed that, despite the 1973 UN resolution to that effect.

What we're seeing now is simply a cycle of abuse, like an abusive, psychopathic parent creating an equally psychopathic child. The Nazis impacted such traumatic horror on so many Jewish people in WWII that the Jewish people themselves — or at least some of the most outspoken of them — have now become the advocates for the traumatic, horrific, abuse of others.

[superior88]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Many thanks for your impassioned post. There's only one thing (apart from the fake 'beheaded babies' story, which was quickly retracted with a rather lame apology) that wasn't quite the case, which was this:

Posted by superior88 (here)
I will assume before 7th, Israel and Palestine were living together peacefully in harmony as well.

I understand you may well have 'started on 7 October', to express everything you wanted to, but of course the relations between Israel and Palestine have been the very opposite of peaceful even since Israel violently (and murderously!) took over Palestinian land in 1947-48.

That, combined with historical issues that began even before then, is the root of the entire problem. That problem can't be solved until the many previous brutal injustices have been addressed. It didn't just suddenly start out of nowhere on 7 October.

One 'good' thing that has happened as a result of all this — whether it was planned by Hamas or not — is that most of the world is now fully aware of the urgent need for a two-state solution, for Palestine's recognized and secure sovereignty as a nation-state in it own right. Israel and the US have always opposed that, despite the 1973 UN resolution to that effect.

What we're seeing now is simply a cycle of abuse, like an abusive, psychopathic parent creating an equally psychopathic child. The Nazis impacted such traumatic horror on so many Jewish people in WWII that the Jewish people themselves — or at least some of the most outspoken of them — have now become the advocates for the traumatic, horrific, abuse of others.

thank you Bill for your true and wise words, actually i started this with this assumption because i have seen many people who are not aware of the root of this conflict. they think simply it all started on 7th Oct. usually I avoid such topics because I find it very difficult to deliver my messages/points to others when they have 0 knowledge about history but seeing reactions and comments on youtube/twitter pushed the button. specially the fake story with beheaded babies, they keep using it as reference.

[Parsi-X]

The cycle [of hate] is never ending.. I pray for all the lost and suffering souls .. when will we learn of the harm we are doing to ourselves and our children.. truly sad for the world and humanity as a whole.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
What we're seeing now is simply a cycle of abuse, like an abusive, psychopathic parent creating an equally psychopathic child. The Nazis impacted such traumatic horror on so many Jewish people in WWII that the Jewish people themselves — or at least some of the most outspoken of them — have now become the advocates for the traumatic, horrific, abuse of others.

[shaberon]

Posted by superior88 (here)
And please don’t tell me that some countries(governments) condemned Israel…only words no action even basic food medical aids they have been unable to send, so please spare me this debate.

It is like saying Syria is at war with Israel so it is their fault for letting this continue.

At present, the Six Day War of 1967 was concluded with treaties to Egypt (1978) and Jordan (1994). There is no treaty with Syria. That is why I would suggest the ideal is for Israel to surrender unconditionally to Syria.

Otherwise it is a matter of force projection and the legalities of war.

Israel is ticked with Russia having received Hamas as diplomats. That relationship is decomposing.

America just used the U. N. Article 51 to explain why it attacked Syria by "defending" its illegal occupation there. This is obviously totally illegal, but what does anyone do?

Iran does not have a similar ability of force projection. They however are the first ones to successfully attack the U. S. military on the spur of the moment.

It would take the complicity of Jordan and Saudi Arabia in order for any other countries to "do" much of anything to Israel.

Plenty of places would "stand" against the U. S., if it were attacks on their own countries. Getting state militaries to invest the Israeli theater is a different issue. Sadly the one real answer in any of this is force. The "seven countries" thing does not work because stopped by force. Similarly, Israel can only be stopped by force. That would take massive preparations and multiple declarations of war. My sense is that it is a little premature, Iran probably wanted about twenty years to achieve this capability, but the genocide may bring this to the foreground.

[shaberon]

Posted by superior88 (here)
...i started this with this assumption because i have seen many people who are not aware of the root of this conflict. they think simply it all started on 7th Oct. usually I avoid such topics because I find it very difficult to deliver my messages/points to others when they have 0 knowledge about history but seeing reactions and comments on youtube/twitter pushed the button. specially the fake story with beheaded babies, they keep using it as reference.

It's not possible. The English brain is hard wired to self-delusion and psychosis. I suggest ignoring all that stuff.

That, unfortunately, is religious, because the English language itself is basically identical to Zionism. Its whole deficiency is that it believes it can translate Chinese and everything else into its own terms, and go back and tell those people what's right. But to begin with, the language itself is already Israelized. You will never be able to debate with any of them. You can only tell them that the whole thing must be disposed of. Then maybe you can add in a few reasons. Trying to go at it point by point will only frustrate you. Trying to compare this thing Hamas did to that thing Israel did is like falling down stairs.

One can say something like "I'm not attacking you", but "Everything you believe is false."

[Bruce G Charlton]

(Unlike in the Russia-NATO war, when NATO is net evil motivated) I don't believe there are any good sides in this conflict; and that mutual destruction, egged on by the domination of violent extremists on both sides, is probably the most likely outcome.

But the main point I would make is that I do not believe that a "two state solution" is possible, from where things are now.

Surely Palestine is not a viable autonomous state, for many reasons - including that it is mostly children; and that it is dispersed across two geographically unconnected areas, with the West Bank lacking a cohesive concentration, and no economy or government to speak of.

If a new Palestine was created, surely it could only exist as some kind of puppet and subsidized regime? A very unstable situation.

I'm sorry to say that - from here - I think that mutual destruction is most likely; second most likely is the end of Israel only; third most likely the complete ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Israel (under US/ NATO protection) - and perhaps even more likely than these, and perhaps inevitable without major regime-change in the USA: escalation to full-on world war III.

(It only takes one side to start a fight - or, more exactly, the choice is between war and unopposed genocide.)

In other words, I don't see any real likelihood of a good outcome. My understanding is that this situation has been deliberately set-up (with collusion from elements on both sides) with destruction in mind, and there seems no realistic way-out.

But of course I may well be wrong! And I hope that I am - I have often/ usually been wrong in the past when trying to predict geopolitical stuff!

[Tintin]

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
(Unlike in the Russia-NATO war, when NATO is net evil motivated) I don't believe there are any good sides in this conflict; and that mutual destruction, egged on by the domination of violent extremists on both sides, is probably the most likely outcome.

But the main point I would make is that I do not believe that a "two state solution" is possible, from where things are now.

Surely Palestine is not a viable autonomous state, for many reasons - including that it is mostly children; and that it is dispersed across two geographically unconnected areas, with the West Bank lacking a cohesive concentration, and no economy or government to speak of.

If a new Palestine was created, surely it could only exist as some kind of puppet and subsidized regime? A very unstable situation.

I'm sorry to say that - from here - I think that mutual destruction is most likely; second most likely is the end of Israel only; third most likely the complete ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Israel (under US/ NATO protection) - and perhaps even more likely than these, and perhaps inevitable without major regime-change in the USA: escalation to full-on world war III.

(It only takes one side to start a fight - or, more exactly, the choice is between war and unopposed genocide.)

In other words, I don't see any real likelihood of a good outcome. My understanding is that this situation has been deliberately set-up (with collusion from elements on both sides) with destruction in mind, and there seems no realistic way-out.

But of course I may well be wrong! And I hope that I am - I have often/ usually been wrong in the past when trying to predict geopolitical stuff!

(in bold): BOOM! That's the payload, 100 percent

Simplicius The Thinker has described much of what is swirling around right now as an "eschatological frenzy".

To be further borne in mind: Hamas is an ideology, it cares not for the Palestinian people, and is prepared to use them and sacrifice them as they most assuredly have done: is a Qatari funded and Israeli (Zionist) enabled entity set up for precisely as Bruce has described here - mutual all-out destruction.

The British Zionist creation of the provisional state of "Isra-El" shares the same racist, repugnant anti-human ideology as Hamas. It is not and never has been 'Jewish'; that's something else entirely far removed from Israel/Zionism.

Contiguous with this, lest we not forget, is that Hamas (and Hezbollah) have a heavy presence in Mexico and now armed quite nicely by the washing of money (armaments) 'through Ukraine' - although they never made it to Ukraine to start with! - now pose a very real danger via the US southern border.

This won't end well.

I wish it could but I do suspect, as you (Bruce) have shared before, we are witnessing the unleashing of the Sorathic force.

[AxisMundi]

I'm always keen to get to the very route-cause of the problem and to my mind this conflict absolutely comes down to hyper-dimensional manipulation and the negative ET agenda. I'm as convinced as I can be that there is a giant portal over the entire Middle East and the feeding frenzy/loosh from all this conflict is the fundamental reason it's been manipulated since the dawn of time.

'The Gods of Eden' by William Bramley explicates this in considerable detail. Here's a man who sat down in the late 1970's to write a book about the origins of war and why the core history of this planet since the dawn of time is to a large extent, the story of two tribes fighting each other. Over ten years later he was no longer writing a book on the human, psychological or psycho-social reasons for war but rather a book about UFO's or what he called 'The Custodians'. IMO he firmly shows that 'something else' is manipulating all this for their own benefits. Well worth a read......

[Rizotto]

Let's keep in mind that Hamas was set up by Isreal. The same way that the USA deep state set up Al Qaeda and ISIS. It's a known fact that Isreal was supporting ISIS' war against the Syrian government, providing weapons to them and medical care. It always comes back to the dark cabal that's ruling the world, which is currently controlling Isreal through the psychopath Netanyahu, and the USA deep state.

[lightpotential]

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
But the main point I would make is that I do not believe that a "two state solution" is possible, from where things are now.

I totally agree that a two state solution is not possible. Israel does not want a two state solution. They want one state, essentially composed of near 100% Jews, with no Palestinians present at all. Unlike with Western countries, the Israeli government does not believe that ‘diversity is our strength.’ They do not believe in multiculturalism.

In the past, when there have been rocket attacks from Gaza, the Israelis have responded with their own bombardment. This time however they have set things up to go further. I believe that what they are now doing is attempting to reduce the ‘Gaza Strip’ to effectively the ‘Gaza Square.’ They are demanding that those in the northern part of the strip move to the South. I think that they are engaged in a full on ethnic cleansing of the North so that they can establish a new perimeter to hem in the Palestinians i.e. a ‘Gaza Square.’

Life inside this new, much smaller area will of course be more intolerable. The Israeli government will then be counting on various Western nations who believe in multiculturalism to take in the Palestinians into their own countries. I also think that they will engage in various operations facilitating illegal migration.

I think the Israelis will have special boats on hand along the coast of this new Gaza Square, to transport desperate Palestinians a few miles out to sea to be picked up by various NGO ships which will then transport them to places like Italy and Greece, and dump them on their shores. The kind of thing that is happening already respecting other coastlines, especially along North Africa e.g. Libya.

I think that this is how the Israelis will proceed with their operation, and this is their overall intent.

[Denise/Dizi]

superior88 I understand your frustration...

Sadly, as long as those in positions of power on this planet behave the way that they do, the populations of all nations will suffer...

The land they are all living on has been disputed for thousands of years... No matter who stays in Israel, someone will absolutely be misplaced... And the same fight will continue. As far as the media, many no longer trust any of it anymore, and we "Civilian" Americans are just as frustrated as any civilian in any country, that is behaving badly... Or making choices that do not reflect their beliefs or desires.

And we don't even truly know what is ever happening behind closed doors in backroom deals, so how can we form the proper insights at all at this point? And I am not just speaking about America, but all nations of any power... As they all have something that someone else desires...

With any and all conflict, everyone gets a tap on the shoulder asking for their support for whatever they can plea for. Previous promises, alignments for other causes, etc.. Truly we have no idea what really dictates why a nation will support one side or another, it can be trade and or previous promises, and have nothing to do with what is happening at the moment, which in turn will never make sense to the masses...

I think we all side with the innocent stuck in the middle on this one... Even Americans...

We are not all ignorant by choice, of all the facts... As you noted, the media is heavily led, and that goes for the entire planet, as your nation would also want to put their agenda front and center to garner your support as well.. And I am sure that they do... None are innocent of giving unbiased reports, especially if it benefits them in some way, by making the masses truly believe something from their perspective.. It's a mess...

Honesty means accountability... And these people don't want that... The human race is a mess at the moment... Hang in there...

[shaberon]

Yes, Hamas had Israeli backing. Similar to how the U. S. set up the Taliban, which turned around and defeated them in Afghanistan.

Parties turn coats all the time, and are not necessarily going to obey their original source of funds or training.

British Zionism is not Jewish, it is Christian, and this format still dominates American and British politicians.

The one-state solution would be Palestine.

Stay focused. This is just the English Bible in action. The particular activity of occupying Palestine is unacceptable to the local inhabitants, so, it's just not going to work. It may exterminate the current population of Gaza. At some point, there won't be any state of Israel. Painful, but so it goes.

[superior88]

thank you guys for understanding my feelings and nobody mis-interpreted my expression and concerns
it feel disgusting how civilians used as pawns for politicians agendas without any humanitarian consideration and what's more disgusting and sickening to see few people decide fate of millions souls

[Libico]

@superior88 Thank you sharing your post - I've read it a few times and find myself agreeing. I'm a bit mentally exhausted from everything going on in our region so apologies for the brevity (I did share my thoughts more succinctly in the main Israel vs Hamas thread in a few posts) but I will say that I wish more people on both sides thought more like you did, or at the very least those that did were given exposure without being attacked and deemed a traitor - the tribalism mentality is very strong with this the Israeli-Palestinian topic where there is no room for logic, self-reflection, empathy, understanding, or compromise.... just raw emotion and vitriol for the "other side". Seeing it here in Israel is difficult and honestly just makes me feel more and more depressed.

There is a deep wound in Israeli society so anger is not an unexpected response, but the lack of any questioning of collective punishment is mind boggling... it's like a lynch mob just on a bigger and more technologically advanced scale. As you said, one death is a tragedy, many is a statistic - that's all that is ever shown to us so it's easy to write it off without realizing that every number is a human being. But the old adage the ends justify the means seems to be imprinted on the collective thoughts in both sides of this conflict.

Praying for better days

[pyrangello]

One point I would like to make that is very encouraging from a worldwide stance are all the people protesting in big numbers around the world to stop the violence. Even here in the states I was surprised at the protests popping up all over.this awakening is really starting to get peoples attention, more importantly in the states is funding for any of these conflicts with some of these incompetent politicians. There is a higher level of voices being raised saying it's time to stop. And it's getting higher and larger everyday. Its time, the year is 2023, it's time to say no more funding period.