Christianity vs Spirituality

[Mike]

Posted by norman (here)
Jesus never started a religion or proposed one or asked anyone to start one.

Jesus never did ritual.

The Romans bastardised the Christ phenomenon, not least by converting the memory of his murder into a blood sacrifice ritual and selling that to billions.

"Religion" is a head thing. It's various flavours and attempts at creating very convincing ( and nefariously useful ) facsimiles of raw or true faith. Faith is not religion, and religions are pretenders inserting themselves into our most natural state, that of pure faith.

When you said you are leaning towards Catholicism my heart sank, but maybe that was only your way of trying to say that you are awakening to something about your true faith but have not yet extracted it from all that catholic/satanic inversion cultural packaging.

Hey Norman,

Seems to me that some of that is accurate, some is semi-accurate, some is inaccurate, and some is just confusing (or confusing to me anyway). You lost me a little with the bit on faith.

Please have a look at Chris's post below, #18. Jesus was involved in numerous rituals. I could spend the next 10 mins adding to Chris's list. It might be useful if you define what you mean by "ritual". Perhaps we're talking about something else entirely.

Any spiritual framework that involves God has to be some balance between head and heart, seems to me. You don't want to overintellectualize God, but you don't want to underintellectualize Him either. In my view, "spirituality" underintellectualizes Him, and it's a balance that requires adjusting.

[Anthony Hale]

Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
But I think Christianity gets it right far more often than "spirituality" does. It's too easy to renounce Christianity in favor of spirituality ..because spirituality doesn't ask anything of you, while Christianity does. Aside from attending mass, confession, and so on, it asks you to assume personal responsibility for your acts and adhere to very specific rules.

It depends what you mean by "spirituality". All the above is founded on perhaps a faulty premise of what it means and is...

God
...is not a human being; assigning anthropomorphic qualities to God (like gender) is useless. God is referred to as 'him' as a generalization, as a tradition, but most understand the "Universal Spirit" or "Source" or whatever, can't possibly have gender, because He/She/It/They are in all things and IS all things. The very simplest reduction of God is love. God is love, and at our lowly human level Love is all we really need to understand and know about God.

We might understand a little better what religion has done to humanity by substituting the word God for Love, and apply it to the following.

Love punishes the wicked
Love hates you, and will cast you to the lake of fire! (as Mitch would say)
It is Love's will
Love favours me, not you
These are Love's chosen people (not those people)
I am a Love fearing man!

Religion stands between you and God. It separates you from God when in (spiritual) reality YOU ARE GOD. Obviously not God in totality, but if God was the ocean you are a drop within that ocean; it is you, and you are it, and no power in the universe can divorce one from the other.

But religion tries. It's tried since the very beginning: in citing this chapter, one gets closer to God. In performing that ritual one is obeying God...

All mind games for the spiritually illiterate, reminding them, each and every time they go to church they are weak and unworthy, and must strive harder to be part of God's kingdom -- when they ARE God's kingdom.

Spirituality is the unfolding realization that the door to God lies within you. Religion is the government bureaucrat standing in the way and denying you access unless you pay this fee and fill in all this paperwork (and don't forget the small print).

Spirituality is for those who see. Religion is for those convinced they are blind.

Thank you Mark that resonates…


As a child growing up in a rural Virginia community, my mother would always take me to local Baptist church. She loved to sing in the choir, and I would attend Sunday school.
For her and many others the church brought a sense of community and in some cases a purpose, meaning and escape from a life of struggle and inner turmoil.

For many when they feel their life has no purpose or meaning this is what attracts people to religion, essentially they want a connection to source. All the while
they don’t realize they are source. However for many Religion may act as a starting point for further self-inquiry.

Like most things in creation Religion can serve double duty, having both positive and negative effects. However my own personal view is that main stream, organized religion
is just another control mechanism, to create a middleman between the creator and the creation.

However for the question “what does spirituality mean”.
From a more expanded perspective of all that is, nothing has built in meaning, we give life meaning. We consciousness.

As co-creators we get to decide what something means. The paradox may be that Life/Existence has no meaning.
Universe is a neutral prop, a reflection of what we believe to be true for ourselves. All of these unique experiences and perspectives
are how we continually expand all that is. The experiences are the only things that are empirically real, because they are the only things we can actually take with us.

None of us has ever seen a hearse with luggage racks ;-)

However what we experience is largely determined by our beliefs and our definitions.
These act like filters that we channel our source energy through to create our experiences across all creation.

As we expand and increase our level of knowing, the experiences are less clouded by beliefs. And we get to see deeper into ourselves.
No matter how deep we go, we only see more of ourselves. There is absolutely nothing to fear.

It’s natural for us as we expand our awareness, to start dropping beliefs and definitions that no longer serve us, and replace them with more up to date modalities.

My definition of spiritual is the same as my definition of consciousness, it’s all that exists , there is nothing else, nothing outside of it, everything is happening within consciousness, spirit.

We are in spirit right now, we never leave spirit, any incarnation I take on, is simply a projection of my consciousness, which is multi layered, existing in a variety of frequency domains
that are relevant for my chosen experiences, growth and expansion.

[Jaak]

Im from north and a mix of shamanism/spiritualism.Christianity was forced upon us by crusaders with iron and fire and after they enslaved Estonians for 600+ years they didnt seem to practice the religion that they preached and it left a bad taste in the mouth.Although i do think there is alot of truth in it but i disagree with some things.
Like heaven and hell.How bible describes them they are purely materialistic places and dont exist in spiritual realm . Heaven having all its gold and blingbling that a spiritual person very desperately needs to gaze at for eternity for some reason...No thanks,i would rather spend eternity in nature observing life than to spend it in christian heaven as it is described in bible.It´s unbelievable and doest appeal to me.
And hell with its lake of sulphur and high temperature (temperature is the rate of vibration of molecules/atoms.Just like there aint no temperature/atoms in your dreams,same in spiritual realm).So again,very materialistic place that cant exist in spiritual realm/dimension.
Other things i disagree with are how christianity sees itself as something separate of nature.Maybe because its a desert religion and saying you are the same as sand and cactuses doesnt have much appeal to it..
I believe in reincarnation because it is how soul evolves.The christian version is that soul comes out of nowhere or from god,gets one chance and once it f*cks up then there is no redemption.Only eternal suffering.God who designed this kind of system aint very merciful.

And yet i have used the name Jesus to scatter away demons/jins during out of body experiences for years and it works.Every time! You ever find yourself in sleep paralysis when something scary comes to scare you to suck your energy then confidently say Jesus and poof they are gone.You will only believe that once you experience it..
Thats why i have had some thoughts to get baptyzed ,kind of pure curiosity if it will make me feel different in certain level..

And also i dont agree that one can save his soul by prayin to jesus but by being like him.Two main sins are ignorance and selfishness,everything else spawns from that.To conquer those ,one must need to learn,learn,learn.Best teacher is experience.We get as many attempts as necessary to polish off ignorance and selfishness from our soul...

Bible was composed by council of Niccea and they left out the part where Jesus goes to underworld and talks with demons.They say they torment the souls as long as they are ready to be born again .Reincarnation. Nothing else comes to mind at the moment.

[Kryztian]

With all religions, I think there are two contradictory elements at play.

1. They enlighten, liberate and empower people. They motivate individuals to be there best possible selves, moving beyond fear, anxiety, grief. They help us to understand that the best things in life aren't things, but rather something that is spiritual, something that we need to focus our attention on in prayer, meditation and in our daily lives.
   
   
2. They enslave, weaken and mind control us. They make us better cogs in the wheel of society that supports a tyrannical elite group of people. They present God as a vengeful ogre whom you most obey or you will be punished in extreme ways, or for eternity. And they will tell you to follow "God's Laws", which, as it just so happens, are the rules that will empower this tyrannical elite.

Of course you will find these two contrary elements within the same religion, although they will be expressed differently at different places and times. Which one dominates depends a lot on how the religion is practiced. You can choose to support religious demagogues, or you can find ways to learn from and to teach your brethren.

[Mike]

Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
But I think Christianity gets it right far more often than "spirituality" does. It's too easy to renounce Christianity in favor of spirituality ..because spirituality doesn't ask anything of you, while Christianity does. Aside from attending mass, confession, and so on, it asks you to assume personal responsibility for your acts and adhere to very specific rules.

It depends what you mean by "spirituality". All the above is founded on perhaps a faulty premise of what it means and is...

God
...is not a human being; assigning anthropomorphic qualities to God (like gender) is useless. God is referred to as 'him' as a generalisation, as a tradition, but most understand the "Universal Spirit" or "Source" or whatever, can't possibly have gender, because He/She/It/They are in all things and IS all things. The very simplest reduction of God is love. God is love, and at our lowly human level Love is all we really need to understand and know about God.

We might understand a little better what religion has done to humanity by substituting the word God for Love, and apply it to the following.

Love punishes the wicked
Love hates you, and will cast you to the lake of fire! (as Mitch would say)
It is Love's will
Love favours me, not you
These are Love's chosen people (not those people)
I am a Love fearing man!

Religion stands between you and God. It separates you from God when in (spiritual) reality YOU ARE GOD. Obviously not God in totality, but if God was the ocean you are a drop within that ocean; it is you, and you are it, and no power in the universe can divorce one from the other.

But religion tries. It's tried since the very beginning: in citing this chapter, one gets closer to God. In performing that ritual one is obeying God...

All mind games for the spiritually illiterate, reminding them, each and every time they go to church they are weak and unworthy, and must strive harder to be part of God's kingdom -- when they ARE God's kingdom.

Spirituality is the unfolding realisation that the door to God lies within you. Religion is the government bureaucrat standing in the way and denying you access unless you pay this fee and fill in all this paperwork (and don't forget the small print).

Spirituality is for those who see. Region is for those convinced they are blind.

God was a human being actually. Went by the name of Jesus. Maybe you've heard of him

Your explanation is eloquent and poetic. You almost had me for a moment! I enjoyed reading it and it would look nice on a postcard, but it's so vague as to be rendered meaningless. Mark I'm not convinced you believe all that! I think you would like to believe all that maybe. God is love? What does that mean? This is the gripe I have with spirituality, which I tried to articulate in my OP.

Religion often stumbles and gets it wrong, but that's a natural consequence of it's boldness in trying to articulate God in specific ways. Spirituality sits on the sidelines and laughs, but never makes an earnest effort of its own. It hides behind vague and foggy platitudes, while imagining itself superior.

I think religion creates a bridge between God and humanity, albeit a very imperfect one. It dares to try, openly, which merits a certain degree of respect from me. Spirituality cloaks it's unwillingness to be bold and specific with lofty notions of egolessness and vague and pithy statements that suggest wisdom but offer no clear paths forward.

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

[Mike]

Posted by DNA (here)
I believe in an angelic beurocracy with angels acting as stage hands behind the scenes, pulling sand bags, dropping curtains cuing actors, whispering lines occasionally.
The over soul seven books by Jane Roberts I suppose helped to create this view in my mind.
I think folks with a flushed out sophisticated spirituality are fine.
But folks need to remember that humanity as a whole is in need of the type of concrete guidance Christianity brings.

And unlike Judaism and Islam..
Christianity doesn't promote arrogance and give free passes for violence against non practitioners or non believers.

The Tavistock University has been trying to stamp it out with pop music, women's lib, alcoholic debauchery, drug abuse and the promotion of casual sex.

The middle class of America and Europe are under attack and Christianity brings these folks together and helps unite them.

Hey Marcus, I agree, I think most people require the structure religion provides, not just as a means of knowing God but as a prescription for life. There are some people that can exist outside that paradigm and maintain a proper orientation (the ones with a fully fleshed out spirituality as you say) but I think they're few in number.

The rest are kind of dangling in the tournafortia. How many people do you know who maintain a coherent, structured, clearly defined spirituality outside of religion and actually adhere to it's principles? I think I might know 2(in my entire life). The others I know in my daily life imagine they do, but they clearly don't.

How do I know? I just observe their lives, and it becomes obvious. I put myself in this group too btw...I'm also in the neurotic tribe of the lost. My buffet table spirituality, which I once thought so clever and hip, has proven to be quite empty

[Mike]

Posted by ulli (here)
Christianity has produced some amazing mystics, but so have other religions as well.
To me, mysticism is the path of the second way, or “the way of the monk”, as Gurdjieff called it.
Emotional ecstasy, and devotion.
The essential goal of Christianity is transcendence, and overcoming the normal reaction to the enemy, which is to get even.
By commanding to love thy neighbor, and even thy enemy, Christ gave the command to strive for higher consciousness, a level where hatred is no longer a driving force.
While most new age spirituality sends out messages to return people towards self love, via yoga, and other practices.
True spiritual growth has the aim of striving towards overcoming the lower self, and with that intent there is a self evaluation, aka the voice of conscience.
So to me true Christianity includes spirituality, whereas spirituality does not necessarily live up to the Christian ideal.

That's a great post. I've read it several times I'll have to think a bit before I respond properly.

[Mike]

Note: I appreciate all the thoughtful posts here. I'll certainly reply to all of them when I can. I always feel slightly guilty about not immediately responding to everyone. "Catholic guilt" perhaps

[ulli]

I for one am not expecting a response, Mike. Please don’t feel obliged.

I’m just glad we have a thread here that tackles ideas about religion, faith, consciousness and spirituality.

[Casey Claar]

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

What does that mean? "dabbled in spirituality".

[Mike]

Posted by Casey Claar (here)

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

What does that mean? "dabbled in spirituality".

Hi Casey, I'm leaving myself open to criticism there, because the obvious rebuttal will be that I wasn't dedicated enough, and there may be some truth to that. But I don't really think so.

When I say "spirituality", I'm basically referring to anything outside of religion that professes to expand or enrich one's soul/mind/body or draw one closer to God in some way.

There will be some obvious overlap with the "New Age", though they're not exactly the same thing.

So what have I dabbled in?

- zen meditation
- astrology
- psychic readings (perhaps a couple dozen times)
- hands on healing
- distance energy healing (various forms)
- Chakra exercises
- visualization exercises
- yoga
- Astral projection

...and about a million other things I can't think of atm.

An aside: a concerned friend of mine on the forum pm'd me recently and asked me, in so many words, if I'd really planned on getting a healing from Mitch, who by all reasonable standards appeared to be a complete lunatic. And part of my response was, it's basically the only thing I haven't tried yet

[norman]

Mike, speaking from own experience only, the most important part of achieving a goal or understanding, has not been the addition of new information ( although that is important too ) but has been the part of untangling myself from the mostly unexamined stuff of where I'm starting or coming from.

I don't know you very well but I think I know that you are very much into words and writing, and most importantly, the neuronal patterns and habits that go with that. New information' might then turn out to not be anything particularly new after all, it might just be stuff you already had in front of you but had been stepping straight over it as environmental clutter in you way.

I suggest, for what it's worth, that you examine the place and state you ARE right now, as the first foot forwards.

You'll probably end up writing about it, but that's not the objective

[shaberon]

Taking a look at this, it appears that something called Christianity that values God is being watered down by morally relativistic generic spirituality.


Is anyone aware this is the same caution that Christianity--the Church of Jerusalem--warns about false Christianity--Popery and Protestantism?


Is anyone a practicing member of the Church of Jerusalem?

Isn't the deity actually called El?

I have no idea about any of that stuff, because I am a follower of Dharma, and I have learned how "religion" is the opposite in most respects.

However, I can say there is a type of "Rosetta Stone"--the Rock Edicts of Ashoka, ca. 300 B. C. E.--where our beloved Dharma translates into Greek as "Eusebia". Does this hold any meaning for anyone?


I admit the poverty of English leaves me at a point where, no, I don't think terms like "spirituality" are adequate or useful, and I guess it has gotten more difficult to express anything I am trying to say, and it does not quite fit the Semitic lore either.

It almost fits the Mandaean lore, or, I would say this is the clearest and most interesting of all the Semitic stuff. This and Hesychasm. You can't join the Mandaeans but you can become a Hesychast, which is the practice within the Church of Jerusalem.


I tend to agree with the not-watered-down concept, as I have certainly experienced difficulty with it. Particularly by trying to blend ideas from everywhere like the Mayans and Persians and so on, on top of some aspect of every known religion, and it didn't really work. I had to boil it down to the more substantial traditions. I was within one step or was invited to convert to Islam and Orthodoxy. In the long run I was left with Buddhism.

Now, even though the reason for that is that at a certain point--and at times quite strongly--I do not agree with what seem to be some of the required precepts for those theologies--I think, for the most part, on a humanistic level, we are all about the same.

I think that is how Russia works, which is how you get Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists all voluntarily fighting on the same side. It works because Orthodoxy requires a tolerant domain, and what you have is the addition of other actual traditions, and not so much a bunch of watered-down spiritual ideas.


I agree that anyone has a right to say a liturgy or hold a belief that is not the same as mine, but, the line will be drawn when that is used as a basis for favoritism or supremacy in a political way.

I would also suggest that in the ancient world, "religions" and clean politics were mixed in the tradition of Debt Jubilee. You can find it in the Code of Hammurabi ca. 1850 B. C. E. and in the Book of Leviticus. The definition of a "good king" lay mostly in protecting the public from the predatory financial class. We then find in the Rg Veda the Akkadian word "benkata" for "money-lender", who gets added on to the ancient list of Our Enemies. However the practice of such protection died and was erased in the Roman Empire.

Because I can find support for this in a Jewish, Christian, Islamic, or Indian context, I would be prepared to argue for everyone's benefit that this is part of "real non-denominational spirituality".

[Casey Claar]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Casey Claar (here)

I've dabbled in the spirituality game for decades. It's a hamster wheel.

What does that mean? "dabbled in spirituality".

Hi Casey, I'm leaving myself open to criticism there, because the obvious rebuttal will be that I wasn't dedicated enough, and there may be some truth to that. But I don't really think so.

When I say "spirituality", I'm basically referring to anything outside of religion that professes to expand or enrich one's soul/mind/body or draw one closer to God in some way.

There will be some obvious overlap with the "New Age", though they're not exactly the same thing.

So what have I dabbled in?

- zen meditation
- astrology
- psychic readings (perhaps a couple dozen times)
- hands on healing
- distance energy healing (various forms)
- Chakra exercises
- visualization exercises
- yoga
- Astral projection

...and about a million other things I can't think of atm.

An aside: a concerned friend of mine on the forum pm'd me recently and asked me, in so many words, if I'd really planned on getting a healing from Mitch, who by all reasonable standards appeared to be a complete lunatic. And part of my response was, it's basically the only thing I haven't tried yet

Mike,

Thank you for this answer.

What I would be really interested to get at now, are your disciplines. Just bringing in your word "dabbled", did you just sort of date each of the things on this list and then go your separate ways? When you practiced, say meditation, how often would you practice and for how long? did you practice in a group and/or on your own? were the practices formal ( a set time and place for a certain duration ) or informal? Why did you practice? Did you ever do more than toe the water? If not, why? If yes, I am interested! Where are you now in your practice? It is correct that dabbling does not get one very far. Discipline is required -discipline is what brings what is once practice into becoming a way of life. <--This is when things begin to get interesting.

[DNA]

Here we are,,, living in a time when human trafficking exists on a HUGE scale and it exists to snatch and grab and then sell children.
If it's one thing we know about the elite...
It's that they are Satan worshiping child sacrificing pedophiles.
We have the documents we have the escaped survival testimony.
Epstien is merely a franchise owner in a global company that is ubiquitous in certain economic strata.

If this is to be combatted.
If this is to be fought...
Folks must feel emboldened to do so in a frame work of understanding.

No better ally can be had than Christianity.
Christianity provides solace and meaning when the horrors of what is going on are a tad more than most human psyches can handle.

Christianity should be promoted and encouraged. Especially by those here who think they know what is going on.
Especially by those here who have climbed the solitary journey of spirituality and now know how difficult and lonely that trip was.

We don't have time for abstract nebulous theories. We need concrete well established psychologically supporting help here.

We NEED Christianity now more than ever.

[Mike]

Posted by shaberon (here)
Taking a look at this, it appears that something called Christianity that values God is being watered down by morally relativistic generic spirituality.

Thank you. Yes, this is exactly what I'm driving at.

What we call spirituality, no matter how authenticically applied, is something like a gateway drug to moral relativism. It cannot define itself, and is therefore objectively meaningless. It's all inclusive. It recognizes "your truth" and "my truth" . It refuses to recognize certain boundaries, and is therfore rather amorphous and chaotic. It offers an ethos of "do you" and don't worry about the consequences necessarily.

Some people will recognize those things as the components that make up "woke". I do think that most of what passes as spirituality these days is a postmodern, woke religion.

I see it as an invitation to chaos. There can be no God in a morally relativistic world, and therefore everything goes. No rules, no boundaries, no law, no morality.

I won't sit here and say that Christianity is the answer to it all, but it recognizes absolutes. I will say it again: God has to mean something very specific, or the world will suffer. Christianity, for all its faults, is very specific.

[Casey Claar]

In the same way as Christianity can be confused with what it is not, so, too, can Spirituality.

These need not be posed against one another. It is well and good to have a preference for the language one uses, and the practices she/he undergoes, but not to the point of feeling any one is more or less superior at its basis than another. This is the mistake we, as humans like to keep stepping into. You will have a more beneficial outcome if you place these CONCEPTS, raw - onto a level playing field.

I drafted this up for someone once.

______________________



______________________

We all have to go through this process.

I went through it in a yogic sphere, myself being a jnani ( and most others tantric ) I at first had a strong bent toward that language and those practices. But at a certain point, in order to go any further in my understanding than I presently was, I had to learn from the perspective of tantrika what tantra is. Once I allowed this, and it was a process that took many years, but once I allowed it, it was all of a sudden like I had the secret decoder ring to all languages. I began to be able to use them all--interchangeably.

Level the playing field to see the pattern. All cosmologies will have their own language,

But what they are saying/relaying at their core is always the same.

[Matthew]

Posted by Mike (here)
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Posted by Matthew (here)
With Christianity forget the rules and guilt. Your salvation is not achieved by your works.

Of course it is

Absolutely not, you are so wrong. It's by the blood of Christ and his works. You are made righteous by your faith. The law is a curse.

[Mike]

Posted by Matthew (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
[...

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Posted by Matthew (here)
With Christianity forget the rules and guilt. Your salvation is not achieved by your works.

Of course it is

Absolutely not, you are so wrong. It's by the blood of Christ and his works. You are made righteous by your faith. The law is a curse.

Ok, fair enough! In Christianity, salvation is by the blood of Christ. True! (I did say I'd stumble thru this a little!)

But I'd say you're made righteous by your faith *and* your acts.

What law is a curse? Can you elaborate a little? Thanks.

[Mike]

Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)
Spirituality is more about 'consciousness' than about GOD (which is what Abrahamic religions are mostly about). It is focussed 'inward' as a mostly (higher-)self discovery path instead of 'outward'. There is no such 'inward' thing in 'exoteric' (outer) religion but (as ulli already correctly put it) in 'esoteric' or 'mystic' streams of religions it exists and always existed. However, the mystic side of religion is suppressed and the general society is mainly faced with the 'exoteric' branches of the Abrahamic religions nowadays.

I personally find 'exoteric' religions dull and literally 'soulless'. For me they are used as a tool to manipulate the masses by the elites, not just today but through the course of history. That is what 'exotericism' was created for in the first place, so I believe.

One of the key elements is the anthropomorphisation of what is 'God' (or Source, All That Is, cal it what you want) - making it/him or them (including all polytheistic religions, e.g. God pantheons of many 'pagan' cults) a 'human'.

Honestly, I find it all 'childish' - quite literally, no matter if mono- or polytheistic. What is also called 'spirituality' is the more 'adult' version of being 'aware' that more exists than this physical world.

However, as I said before, I still don't like this word either because it has been diluted by many things, especially in the West.

For some it is also synonymous to the term "New Age" which has a derisive tone and lots of negative connotations for many already. I think this is what religious people often refer to when they denounce the 'spiritual' people who don't belong to 'their' religion. For them 'New Age' is the same 'thing'. So this thread could also have been named "Religion vs. New Age" or so and we would have the same or a similar discussion.

For me both concepts are insufficient. I reject Religion (exotericism) as well as New Age (when equated to Spirituality).

I do like the mystic branches including those of the religions and even read books and articles about them (Sufism, Christian Mysticism, etc.).

One good example of two mystic branches combined was given by the life and work of Willigis Jaeger from Germany. He was a priest first and then also became an Eastern Zen master. His aim was to combine the best of two worlds by teaching Christian Contemplation techniques and Zen Mindfulness Meditation. He founded a company and a retreats in a monastery in Germany.

If you're interested, here's more (translated):

https://www-benediktushof--holzkirch..._x_tr_pto=wapp

"Center for meditation and mindfulness

The Benediktushof was founded in 2003 by the Benedictine and Zen master Willigis Jäger (1925-2020) and is now one of the largest centers for Christian contemplation, mindfulness and Zen meditation in Europe. Here people can come to themselves in silence, reflect on the essentials and return to everyday life strengthened with practical impulses."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willigis_J%C3%A4ger

"Willigis Jäger (German: [ˈvɪlɪgɪs ˈjɛːgɐ]; 7 March 1925 – 20 March 2020) was a German Catholic priest and Benedictine monk. He was a Zen master who trained and taught in the Sanbo Kyodan tradition. Jäger founded a centre of Zen and contemplation at the Münsterschwarzach Abbey in 1983, and his own Benediktushof, an inter-faith centre of meditation and awareness, in 2003."

Hey OMD, interesting stuff.

I think what you're calling exoteric religion, while not as sexy as the inward variety, is required for the masses. Dogma is really a form of consensus, and it's required for any kind of ordered, coherent world. People need to be united under a common rubrick; and as history tells us: if it's not religion (or something resembling religious values) it is often the state. And we know how that goes.

Very few people have the discipline to engage their inner worlds, so I think that approach is reserved for the few and not the many.

Thanks for the links