WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

[christian]

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
War is terrible. But there are even worse things.

Because it only takes one side to go to war; therefore, for a nation there may be only a choice between war and permitting genocide of oneself.

That's why Ukrainians are fighting back. There are indeed many who consider themselves Ukrainians who don't want to be ruled by Moscow, therefore they put on a uniform and fight back against the Russian invasion of their country. It's very easy to understand. Russia, on the other hand, was not invaded. And I think it's preposterous for Russia to claim that it had to invade Ukraine to prevent Ukraine or the West from destroying Russia. Ukraine could have never accomplished that and would have never attempted that, that's blatantly obvious. At the most, Ukraine was trying to reconquer the territories it lost since 2014. And if the West really wanted to launch a war to destroy Russia, they'd do it with or without Ukraine. One way or another, there was no acute security reason for Russia to invade Ukraine, but there was an imperialistic reason.

If I were Ukrainian, I wouldn't wanna be ruled by Moscow either, but also not by the government in Kyiv. I'd do my best to escape the war, and since the start of the war in 2022 I recommended that Ukraine bites the bullet and concedes some territory because they cannot persevere militarily—let alone kick the Russian army out of the country—without sufficient NATO assistance, but that assistance won't come. NATO is no reliable partner for Ukraine and never has been.

By playing favorites with both Russia and the West, Ukraine has gotten itself into this mess. Ukrainian political leaders should have opted for true neutrality long ago to avoid being caught in a proxy war.

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
In the case of Russia, now, I believe the choice was/is war against the West/NATO

You're saying Russia should go to war directly with the West/NATO? Sounds like an end-of-the-world scenario to me. Some in the West expect this to happen, that's why so many in the EU are now building up their militaries. It's all madness to me. Look at the big picture, humanity was/is awakening to the reality of the big picture, to the true nature of reality, and now the old establishment in Russia, the West, China, virtually all governments put the war menu back on the table at a time when many thought this was all over, that big nations don't go to war with each other anymore, at least not directly. What's happening is that the old establishment is trying to pull humanity down, suck people into the ritual abuse matrix. War is a great tool to stifle the human awakening, to pull people's minds down to the lower frequencies.

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
For me the destruction of Russia would be the destruction of an essentially good-affiliated entity (one on the side of good); by another entity (the totalitarian globalist ideology, centred in The West) that is literally ruled by demonic values.

I think when you hold one side in current global conflicts as essentially good and the other side as essentially evil, they got you. You're caught in the collective ritual abuse matrix, you're giving energy to their game. For the psychopaths of the world who want to keep humanity down it's secondary which side you support, they just want to get you to support one side, to get you into polarization, so you commit to the dehumanization of a whole group of people. It's a war for people's hearts and minds, the kinetic war between countries is actually secondary, even though it's the most apparent aspect of the whole thing, but it's not the most important. As Orwell wrote in 1984, "The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance."

Some things are better in the West, some things are better in Russia, both have corrupt psychopaths at the top and throughout their power apparatuses. Picking a side means giving power to psychopathic leaders on all sides. The only way out is to be on the side of regular people, of individual sovereignty. At the end of the day, individual sovereignty is the common enemy of both Russia and the West, of virtually all governments, and they fight individual freedom by getting people to rally around the flag. They want people to embrace collective ritual abuse out of fear and hate. This whole war business we see escalating on a global scale right now is in many ways a big theater play, it's a spiritual war on humanity, and behind the scenes there's more cooperation between seeming adversarial governments than they'd like to admit. They play a common game of screwing the common people and abolishing individual freedom.

I think it's the job of the alternative scene to see the bigger picture, not to pick sides, but to look at everything from a higher perspective and act accordingly. I think when enough people believe that it's either this big government or that big government that will save humanity, we're certainly doomed, and it doesn't even matter which side people pick. Picking a side in and of itself is the trap because it leads to dehumanization and collective ritual abuse. And that's what this whole matrix we live in is all about.

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1780582387639791866

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Text:
‼️🇺🇦🏴‍☠️Ukraine’s goal is to hold out in battle for another 6 months, - Sky News

▪️But Ukraine will hold out until the end of this year only if they start supplying weapons to Kyiv. And after that the situation may become less dangerous, said military analyst and professor Michael Clarke.
- RVvoenkor

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1780640256049480114

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦Russian Defense Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation

17 April 2024

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.

▫️In Kupyansk direction, units of the Zapad Group of Forces have taken more advantageous lines and inflicted fire damage on manpower and hardware of 57th motorized infantry, 14th, 54th mechanized, and 77th aeromobile brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Sinkovka, Zagoruykovka (Kharkov region), and Stelmakhovka (Lugansk People's Republic).

Four counter-attacks launched by assault groups of AFU 63rd mechanized, 3rd assault brigades, and the 125th Territorial Defense Brigade have been repelled near Chervonaya Dibrova (Lugansk People's Republic), Torskoye, and Terny (Donetsk People's Republic).

The AFU losses were up to 70 Ukrainian troops, three motor vehicles, one 122-mm D-30 howitzer, two Plastun-3000 electronic reconnaissance stations, as well as one Nota electronic warfare station.

▫️In Donetsk direction, units of the Yug Group of Forces have improved the situation along the front line and inflicted fire damage on manpower and hardware of 56th mechanized, 5th, 79th air assault, 28th, 30th, and 93rd mechanized brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine close to Orekhovo-Vasilyevka, Blagodatnoye, Bogdanovka, Andreyevka, and Kurdyumovka
(Donetsk People's Republic).

In addition, three counterattacks launched by assault groups of the AFU 10th Mountain Assault Brigade and 46th Airmobile Brigade have been repelled near Vyemka and Krasnogorovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

The AFU losses were up to 480 Ukrainian troops, one tank, one armored fighting vehicle, 20 motor vehicles, one U.S.-made 155-mm M777 howitzer, one 122-mm D-30 howitzer, and one Anklav-N electronic warfare station.

▫️In Avdeyevka direction, units of the Tsentr Group of Forces have improved the tactical situation and inflicted fire damage on units of 24th, 47th, and 59th mechanized brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Novgorodskoye, Netaylovo, and Karlovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

Eight counter-attacks have been repelled by units of 25th airborne, 68th, 71st jaeger, 23rd, 115th mechanized brigades, and the 78th Separate Air Assault regiment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine close to Leninskoye, Novokalinovo, Pervomayskoye, Umanskoye, and Berdychi (Donetsk People's Republic).

The AFU losses were up to 330 Ukrainian troops, two armored fighting vehicles, three motor vehicles, and one 122-mm D-30 howitzer.

▫️In South Donetsk direction, units of the Vostok Group of Forces have improved the situation along the front line. The servicemen also have defeated units of the AFU 72nd Mechanised Brigade and the 128th Territorial Defence Brigade near Vodyanoye and Makarovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

The AFU losses were up to 80 Ukrainian troops, one tank, two motor vehicles, one 152-mm Akatsiya self-propelled artillery system, and one 122-mm D-30 howitzer.

▫️In Kherson direction, the units of the Dnepr Group of Forces have inflicted fire damage on manpower and hardware of the 126th Territorial Defence Brigade near Kazatskoye, Berislav, and Nikolayevka (Kherson region).

The AFU losses were up to 35 Ukrainian troops, five motor vehicles, as well as one 122-mm D-30 howitzer.

▫️Operational-Tactical Aviation, Missile Troops and Artillery of the Russian Groups of Forces have engaged ammunition depots of the Donetsk Operational-Tactical Group, the 125th Territorial Defense Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the terrorist units of the Russian Volunteer Corps, as well as manpower and military hardware in 132 areas.

▫️Air defense facilities have shot down 191 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles, six U.S.-made MGM-140 ATACMS operational-tactical missiles, and one French-made Hammer aerial guided bomb.

📊 In total, 583 airplanes and 270 helicopters, 21,483 unmanned aerial vehicles, 502 air defense missile systems, 15,798 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, 1,267 combat vehicles equipped with MLRS, 8,935 field artillery guns and mortars, as well as 21,096 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.

Russian Defense Ministry

https://x.com/dana916/status/1780583130367152432

[Bruce G Charlton]

@Christian - I think you regard all wars as essentially the same, and evil - and that it is always evil to go to war. Therefore both sides are always culpable. And I think you regard it as naïve or ignorant for anyone to regard one side as justified, in any war.

But I disagree, for reasons already stated.

Since this is a matter of disagreement over fundamental and very general value assumptions (including religious ones), there is no point in pursuing matters further in this specific thread - so I shall desist.

[Ravenlocke]

Ukr Disaster: Ocheretino;
Krasnogorovka Falling,
Politico: War Lost,
Xi Scolds Scholz, Make Peace

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=fQJbiOOtdXM

[Ravenlocke]

Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1780582387639791866

https://x.com/BowesChay/status/1780621913502462041

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/dana916/status/1780709053070786720

https://x.com/MaimunkaNews/status/1780647193008828551

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1780520924430663973

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1780549840490963053

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
‼️🇷🇺🏴‍☠️“Vampire” is trying to attack Belgorod
▪️Air defense forces shot down 14 Vampire MLRS shells over the territory of the Belgorod region, the Russian Ministry of Defense reports.
▪️Governor: 14 air targets approaching the city. According to preliminary information, there were no casualties.
⠀In the Belgorod region, as a result of an air attack by the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the village of Pulyaevka, the roof of a canopy was broken and the porch was damaged in one private house, Gladkov specified.
- RVvoenkor

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1780719638340387151

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1780719693915111494

[shaberon]

Posted by christian (here)
I think it's the job of the alternative scene to see the bigger picture, not to pick sides, but to look at everything from a higher perspective and act accordingly. I think when enough people believe that it's either this big government or that big government that will save humanity, we're certainly doomed, and it doesn't even matter which side people pick. Picking a side in and of itself is the trap because it leads to dehumanization and collective ritual abuse.

I am wondering if there is any way to make this less abstract and into something tangible.

We understand you disagree with the Russian SMO on principle, however, it is too late. Being a fact, how does one realistically deal with it?

What is "individual sovereignty"? It sounds like something that would undermine any social contract.

I am "on a side", but it is not a government. It is, however, represented by what I see in Russian culture, and, is not, anywhere else, that I am aware of. The role of a Russian government is to provide a viable social contract among them; it may not please everyone, but there must be something to it, otherwise these events would not be possible.

Knowing that there is "another side", as Bruce said:

My understanding is that the destruction of Russia was the definite plan of the West, indeed absolutely explicitly so - over a period of thirty years, and indeed for more than a century (e.g. see the work of Terry Boardman); and that this plan had gone a long way, and was indeed accelerating.

well, yes, but as a standing governmental policy, it is continuous from Lord Palmerston, 1830s. As an ideological principle, it goes to the interpretation of Gog and Magog as Germany and Russia in the 1700s. This is very specific to English Bibles. I suppose you find it more in "splinter factions" than C of E, but, they rather remarkably destroyed the human mind for all time with a wave of this magic wand.

I don't believe that leaders are just doing war chants around flags and we are being dragged in to lower frequencies like puppies on leashes.

In Anglo and European countries, they try to do this, I guess, but I don't listen to it.

Any one of them is welcome to think of me as "the other side".

I can easily be a dumping ground for anger, fear, a Gaderene swine for whatever needs to be unleashed. It never proves any points that would make me support the western policies. By leaning towards those, Ukraine made a poor choice, like most of Europe, such as Bulgaria, where 86% of the residents wish Democracy would leave.

[Vicus]

Russian Forces Destroy Key Command & Control Point Belonging to Ukraine's 'North' Operative Command 4 hours ago

Russian armed forces destroyed the command post of the operational command Sever (lit. North) of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported on Thursday.

"During the day, the following were destroyed: the command post of the operational command Sever of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, two launchers with a radar illuminator and guidance system of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system, ammunition depot of the operational-tactical grouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donetsk, weapon and fuel depots of the 101st territorial defense brigade, as well as inflicted damage to enemy personnel and military equipment in 126 areas," the ministry said.

Ukraine has lost up to 590 soldiers in the Donetsk region over the past 24 hours, the Russian Defense Ministry said.
Over the given period, the Russian armed forces have repulsed seven counterattacks by Ukrainian troops in the Avdeyevka vicinity, two counterattacks in the Kupyansk direction, one counterattack in the Donetsk area and another one in the Kherson region.
"Enemy losses amounted to up to 590 military personnel, a tank and seven vehicles [in the Donetsk region]," the ministry said in a statement.
Ukraine has also lost up to 140 soldiers in the South Donetsk area and up to 130 soldiers in the Avdeyevka suburbs, the ministry added

https://sputnikglobe.com/20240418/ru...117993795.html

[Vicus]

Ukraine strikes hospital in Donbass, injuring eight – authorities 18 Apr, 2024

Kiev’s forces “deliberately” targeted a blood donation center in the town of Gorlovka, regional head Denis Pushilin has said

Ukrainian troops have struck a hospital and blood donation center in the Donbass town of Gorlovka, the head of Russia’s Donetsk People’s Republic, Denis Pushilin, has said. Eight civilians including a child were injured in the attack.

The victims sustained non-life-threatening injuries in the strike, Pushilin wrote on Telegram on Thursday.

The Ukrainian forces “deliberately” targeted the town center where healthcare facilities are located, he claimed. Both the hospital and the donation center were damaged in the strike.

Gorlovka Mayor Ivan Prikhodko published photos and videos from the scene showing damaged buildings, including the hospital and the blood donor center. The images show smashed windows and the area nearby littered with debris. One clip also showed destroyed and damaged furniture in a room at the healthcare facility.

Kiev’s troops used the US-supplied High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) in the attack, according to preliminary data gathered by the Russian authorities.

Washington has sent dozens of these multiple rocket launchers to Ukraine since mid-2022. The systems provided to Kiev have a range of up to 160km (100 miles) when equipped with longer-range ATACMS missiles. Other projectiles launched by HIMARS and available to the Ukrainian military have a range of around 70km.

According to Pushilin, Kiev’s forces carried out a total of 12 attacks on Thursday – missile and drone strikes – targeting Gorlovka as well as Donetsk and some other Donbass settlements. Cluster munitions were used in some of these attacks, the official said.

https://swentr.site/russia/596193-uk...pital-donbass/

[Vicus]

“I’ll Shoot Them All”: Ukrainian Soldiers Threaten To Go AWOL If They Are Not Demobilised 18.04.2024



According to the Ukrainian portal Strana, Kiev is facing problems in increasing the number of military personnel as a new mobilisation law will take at least eight months to be imposed. Worsening the situation, military personnel in Odessa are threatening to abandon their positions and even kill if the new law does not allow them to demobilise.

On April 11, Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada (Parliament) approved a bill on expanding mobilisation for the military. The National Security and Defence Committee removed the provision on demobilisation from the bill on the eve of its presentation to the Verkhovna Rada for its second reading. Dmitry Lazutkin, a representative of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence, later said that a separate bill on demobilisation was planned, which would take eight months.

Ukrainian journalists in Odessa questioned military personnel about their thoughts towards the government’s decision to exclude demobilisation from the bill on military conscription.

In that case, “I will leave the unit without permission,” one of the soldiers told the Ukrainian portal Strana.

Another Ukrainian serviceman said that the deputies of the Verkhovna Rada should go to the front on an equal footing with them, whilst another believes that changes are necessary in the country and that it is not possible to fight with the same soldiers all the time, making demobilisation necessary.

“I’ll shoot them all. They don’t have such a right… So now I get up and go back to the war whilst they have grown their bellies and will sit in the Verkhovna Rada? This shouldn’t happen,” said another soldier.

“There is the expression ‘Servant of the People.’ It is not we who must serve them, but they who must serve us,” added another, in reference to the name of the ruling party founded by Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky.

These threats to go AWOL come as the New York Times reported that since the start of Russia’s special military operation, thousands of Ukrainian men have attempted to flee across the Tisza River from mandatory conscription. According to Romanian authorities cited by the American newspaper, approximately 6,000 men have arrived in their country across the river since February 2022.

continue: https://southfront.press/ill-shoot-t...t-demobilised/

[Vicus]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZVvazK2w-N0

4 hours ago

[norman]

Meanwhile,

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Why isn’t Europe giving more money to help Ukraine? Why is it that the United States is over $100 Billion Dollars into the Ukraine War more than Europe, and we have an Ocean between us as separation! Why can’t Europe equalize or match the money put in by the United States of America in order to help a Country in desperate need? As everyone agrees, Ukrainian Survival and Strength should be much more important to Europe than to us, but it is also important to us! GET MOVING EUROPE! In addition, I am the only one who speaks for “ME” and, while it is a total mess caused by Crooked Joe Biden and the Incompetent Democrats, if I were President, this War would have never started!

Apr 18, 2024, 6:55 PM


https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldT...93507314520477

[Ravenlocke]

Ukr Collapse: Rus Holds 40% Krasnogorovka,
Storms Ocheretino, Ukr Mutinies;
Israel Prepares Strike

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8ZUKYGiyaTs

[Ravenlocke]

Text:

🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦Russian artillery wipes out NATO-made electronic warfare system in South Donetsk direction

122-mm D-30 howitzers of the 36th Combined Arms Army (Vostok Group of Forces) destroyed a NATO-made electronic warfare system and an ammunition depot of the Ukrainian Armed Forces which was close to the concealed EW system detected by an unmanned aerial vehicle.

Russian Defense Ministry


https://x.com/dana916/status/1781072215116521763

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
The Kiev regime does not stop subjecting civilians and the civilian infrastructure of our country to terrorist attacks.

• On April 9-15, Ukrainian neo-Nazis carried out more than three hundred bombings in the DPR and Belgorod region alone. 39 people were injured, including four children. One person died.

• On April 9, as a result of shelling of the center of the village. A woman and child were killed in Klimovo, Bryansk region, and three more people were injured.

• On April 12, the residential sector of Tokmak (Zaporozhye region) was subjected to a deliberate massive artillery strike, which led to the death of 16 people, including three children. 28 civilians were injured to varying degrees of severity.

• On April 13, Lugansk came under fire from the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Nine people were injured.

• On April 14, Bandera’s supporters shelled the medical and obstetric station in the village of Glotovo in the Belgorod region.

• On April 15, two people were killed due to shelling of the settlements of Kakhovka and Tsarskoye, Kherson region.

<…>

The Ukrainian intelligence services are not giving up attempts to deal with their former compatriots. On April 12 in Moscow they committed an attempt on the life of retired SBU officer Prozorov, and on April 16 on the life of Yakimenko, deputy of the Akimov District Council of the Zaporozhye Region. In both cases, explosive devices went off in the victims' cars.

⚖️ The courts of the Russian Federation, based on evidence collected by the Investigative Committee of Russia, continue to pass sentences on Ukrainian militants who have committed serious crimes against civilians:

• in the DPR, a court sentenced Zhernovsky, a bandit from the Nazi formation “Azov”, to 28 years,
• servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Veselovsky and Kashirin - by the age of 22,
• Kirilenko – to life imprisonment in a special regime correctional colony.

They were found guilty of killing civilians in March 2022 in Mariupol based on political and ideological hatred.


https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1780901213162127821

[Helvetic]

Joseph P. Farrell | News and Views from the Nefarium | Apr. 18, 2024

Source: gizadeathstar.com

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=k_bZ3CSqL2o

...well... maybe we just had our first real confirmation of my hypothesis regarding Russia's "horizontal escalation":

Article:

Man charged with 'helping Russians facilitate President Zelenskyy assassination attempt'

[norman]

Being MSN, I have to consider it's possibly fake news but the video at the link looks like a plane falling out of the sky, I just don't know who's plane or where.

Russian Tu-22 bomber crashes in Stavropol

https://www.msn.com/en-in/foodanddri...ol/vi-AA1nhLhS

[Vicus]

Propaganda debunked: Ukrainian children 'kidnapped by Moscow' found in Germany

RT
Thu, 18 Apr 2024


Emergency accommodation for refugees at the former Tegel airport in Berlin, Germany

The revelation debunks Kiev's "myths," a Russian official accused of mass abductions has said.


Over 160 Ukrainian children allegedly "kidnapped by Russia" have been discovered living in Germany, the country's Federal Criminal Police (BKA) has confirmed.


The head of Ukrainian national police, Ivan Vygovsky, on Wednesday hailed the discovery, telling national media that he had discussed the issue with Holger Munch, president of the BKA, during a meeting earlier in this week.

Allegations by Kiev that Moscow kidnapped Ukrainian children en masse have been exposed as a lie after some of the purported victims have been found in the EU, according to Russian children's rights commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova. She is among the officials to have been accused of abducting youngsters from Ukraine amid the conflict between Moscow and Kiev.

When asked for clarification by RT Deutsch, the BKA said its officers had identified the children after they were flagged as "kidnapping" victims by Kiev. Their personal details were checked against German records.

The majority of the youngsters had entered Germany as refugees accompanied by their parents or legal guardians, the police said. In a handful of cases, suspicion of "unlawful transfer" remained, the statement added, without offering further details.

Responding to the revelations, Lvova-Belova said Moscow has "long been drawing the attention of the international community to the fact that Ukraine has created a systemic myth regarding the children, who it claims had been 'deported' to Russia."


Last year, Lvova-Belova was named alongside Russian President Vladimir Putin by the International Criminal Court (ICC) as the key suspects in its investigation into the alleged unlawful deportation and transfer of minors during the Ukraine conflict. Moscow dismissed the claim as politically motivated, arguing that Kiev had lied to the court about what in reality was an evacuation of civilians from areas affected by the hostilities.

In her remarks about the German discoveries, Lvova-Belova said her office had identified multiple cases in which children described by Kiev as abductees were actually residing with their parents at home or in other nations, "never having been separated from their families."

She expressed hope that the Ukrainian "global disinformation campaign" would eventually stop and that the truth would prevail.

https://www.sott.net/article/490749-...und-in-Germany