Why are Christians so easily offended?..

[HopSan]

Posted by Denise/Dizi (here)

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)

For me to earn the right to fight for God I would have to be brought to my knees first, stripped of my wealth and all earthly possessions. Only then could I find the humility necessary to combat and defeat my ingrained apathy. Only then could the fear in me be tempered by the knowledge that I have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Wow Ernie, this paragraph really stood out to me.

...

We are much more excitable, when in larger groups, and when alone we end to recoil into solitude as a creature.

...

I believe we are facing something that once happened here a long time ago, where a society had gained knowledge and abilities to create things, and what they created was debt slavery, capitalism, and the rule of the few, over the many.

And the only way to "free yourself" from such things would be to disengage from that system.. Get rid of your property, or "Things" and live a more natural life... One in which someone cannot tax you, judge you, etc...

...

But it would take a very evolved group of individuals to make this happen together...

as only then, could the foundation be laid to make sure everyone was taken care of and input their own energies into the whole in a positive way to benefit the whole.

One has to wonder if humans can accomplish this... ESPECIALLY GIVEN WE HAVE SO MAN COMPETING BELIEF SYSTEMS, AND CANNOT EVEN UNITE AS A SPECIES...

...

At the point which you are tested... Should they save your character and carry you over into the next simulation, or reentry into this one? Were you kind, loving, and compassionate? Or were you brutal and rude?

There is so much we do not know... So I try to not limit the options of a reality that seem limitless, to one thought process... Silly, maybe insane, but I think that is the best way to move through what we call life.

Ernie and Denise, what a brilliant core of a point!

I suddenly realised that you may be searching, describing... Hunter-gatherers. Not in primitive, cave-man sense, but in a developed form. Modern hunter-gatherers, with highest levels of technology, education, etc.

Their greatest dream is to own a piece of land at a lake, have a small wooden hut often without electricity, warm water, toilets or other modern comforts. Whenever possible they escape in their fancy modern cars to these little primitive huts:

Men: Alone, in bliss, for days and weeks, they fish and bath, drink and think important thoughts, and show middle finger to any kind of government.

Women: Tend their gardens, enjoy the endless moments men fish or hunt or 'think'...

Children: Adventures, swimming -- and no one says no.

There are many such groups, but text above describes Finnish people. We have been in this area at least 6000 years. 800 years of christianity, agriculture, etc has not changed us much.

As Michael Cremo has written and talked: We (modern world) have devolved. We already had better understanding and value systems -- but they have been slowly destroyed.

[ We are gliding out-of topic, but I cannot resist commenting. ]

[shaberon]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Jesus Christ is one of these, the archetype of priest.

Does it say this somewhere in scripture, or any traditional line of commentary such as that of Aquinas?


I would say the gist of what you wrote is not so bad, except the thing is, it is in a very individualized language.

It sounds like heresy as well as a disconnect from any historical Jesus.

You specifically referred to pre-existence of the soul, which, I think, at best, means you have been kicked out of any form of Christianity. The best you can do is retract it to say "soul begins at the moment of conception". Taking it any further is no longer Christian, but Gnostic. Since you added "non-human" as the true form of existence, then what you are doing comes across more strongly as a strand of Gnosticism, not Christianity.

No Christianity would accept Jesus the archetype. Jesus is part of the Trinity. So is the Spirit.

So if you say man's role is the challenge to fully become an archetype such as "Priest", with no particular bearing on the Spirit or Trinity, I'm not saying that's so bad that you must be stopped; I am saying it sounds completely like Gnosticism rather than Christianity.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Perhaps Jesus Christ is not the priest archetype, and as far as I know there is no reference to archetypes in scripture, unless you consider the hierarchy of the heavenly host.

Maybe Jesus was the King archetype, or the Fool.

The first priest was appointed by Jesus Christ. He named Peter, the foundation upon which he would build his church.
Peter, the Rock.

I like gnostic wisdom and teachings a lot. It's probably showing a bit. Like I stated at the beginning of one of those posts, this is a cumulative perspective from decades of study.


It is in individualized language because we each find ourselves here, separate and alone - a single 'soul'. (and that is the first I've used the word soul)

I'm not sure of the pre-existence of soul, as such. I do believe in the preexistence of Spirit, however. I believe the soul in our case might begin at conception or there abouts because we come from a larger entity that in a manner of speaking, merely sticks a finger into this realm, which then individuates, and in the process a soul is born. And I believe in the next iteration, at another level of experience we do the same thing again, maybe calling ourselves by another collective term, like tru-man, or fre-man, who knows.

The trinity is One.
God the Father,
God the Son,
God the Holy Spirit.

one and the same, yet not the same in authority
also, the trinity itself is the mystery revealed

notice both god and man are represented...and their interpreter

[Denise/Dizi]

Posted by HopSan (here)

Posted by Denise/Dizi (here)

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)

For me to earn the right to fight for God I would have to be brought to my knees first, stripped of my wealth and all earthly possessions. Only then could I find the humility necessary to combat and defeat my ingrained apathy. Only then could the fear in me be tempered by the knowledge that I have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Wow Ernie, this paragraph really stood out to me.

...

We are much more excitable, when in larger groups, and when alone we end to recoil into solitude as a creature.

...

I believe we are facing something that once happened here a long time ago, where a society had gained knowledge and abilities to create things, and what they created was debt slavery, capitalism, and the rule of the few, over the many.

And the only way to "free yourself" from such things would be to disengage from that system.. Get rid of your property, or "Things" and live a more natural life... One in which someone cannot tax you, judge you, etc...

...

But it would take a very evolved group of individuals to make this happen together...

as only then, could the foundation be laid to make sure everyone was taken care of and input their own energies into the whole in a positive way to benefit the whole.

One has to wonder if humans can accomplish this... ESPECIALLY GIVEN WE HAVE SO MAN COMPETING BELIEF SYSTEMS, AND CANNOT EVEN UNITE AS A SPECIES...

...

At the point which you are tested... Should they save your character and carry you over into the next simulation, or reentry into this one? Were you kind, loving, and compassionate? Or were you brutal and rude?

There is so much we do not know... So I try to not limit the options of a reality that seem limitless, to one thought process... Silly, maybe insane, but I think that is the best way to move through what we call life.

Ernie and Denise, what a brilliant core of a point!

I suddenly realised that you may be searching, describing... Hunter-gatherers. Not in primitive, cave-man sense, but in a developed form. Modern hunter-gatherers, with highest levels of technology, education, etc.

Their greatest dream is to own a piece of land at a lake, have a small wooden hut often without electricity, warm water, toilets or other modern comforts. Whenever possible they escape in their fancy modern cars to these little primitive huts:

Men: Alone, in bliss, for days and weeks, they fish and bath, drink and think important thoughts, and show middle finger to any kind of government.

Women: Tend their gardens, enjoy the endless moments men fish or hunt or 'think'...

Children: Adventures, swimming -- and no one says no.

There are many such groups, but text above describes Finnish people. We have been in this area at least 6000 years. 800 years of christianity, agriculture, etc has not changed us much.

As Michael Cremo has written and talked: We (modern world) have devolved. We already had better understanding and value systems -- but they have been slowly destroyed.

[ We are gliding out-of topic, but I cannot resist commenting. ]

Not to keep taking the thread off topic, but you are right in that really, in my opinion, it was a wise individual who crossed the lands, talking about his "Father", meaning that which gave him life, IE The Earth, the trees, via air, the water, the land which he gathered food.. and the clean and peaceful living in harmony with nature, and not an established society in which The few ruled over the many.

Given all societies see their role in this world differently, and in the ways in which they interact within it, I would say that you would also be correct in the suggestion that running water would be great, and could be accomplished with a group for the whole, without anyone owing to another, anything for their part in making it happen... nice structure, safe and warm, etc... And many efforts have been attempted throughout time, many failed as a result of someone or a few, ruining it for everyone, when they begin to start suggesting things that others find disagreeable. I believe there was a thread here awhile back, where a gal was talking of her little group, and ho they had great grounds, common gardens, etc... and then she began giving more details, and it became obvious to me, that her group had a more cult like vibe to it, than anything.

If we can accomplish everything that we have as a planet, all of the advancements, all of our accomplishments using fake money as our system, why could we not do the same with the idea that the end result would be the reward? Well, because a few decide that their efforts are worth more, of that they should own more... Or just that they're not as nice as the whole, and deliberately set out to gain more power over their neighbor. This starts out as nothing big, but becomes something big when people ignore it, and it gets bigger and stronger like a wild creature known to attack humans. Same principle.

To be honest, I would be extremely interested to visit an off world civilization who has been able to make such a world exist, if indeed anyone out there has accomplished this... (Some speaking on the subject suggest that this has been accomplished, but who knows if they're just lying for some reason... )

I suppose we would all like in some way to have the perfect world, given what we find to be of value.Some want the best of life possible, to be free to go to the most exotic places, free from the masses as they cannot afford to go to such places, or are not allowed...

Sadly, many will go through their entire lives, facing the reality that all they would like to discover and explore, will not ever be made available to them, regardless of how much they work, and desire to do such things... Most die never even having ever left their country of origin even once..

And as far as taking the thread off topic? I don't think we need worry about that... Rick started it, and I think it was a deliberate effort to get everyone chasing their tails, with zero intent to even justify his opening post really.. as he isn't even engaging it ... and hasn't sonce he started it, except for throwing out a fairly confrontational suggestion.

Fortunately we have turned it into a pretty positive thread in which we can ponder larger thoughts about religion, the planet, belief systems, and really a non confrontational arena where we can discuss such things openly and calmly.. I think we proved otherwise by now...

Thank You all for that!

[HopSan]

A new thread for us off-world side-gliders:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...43#post1622243

[shaberon]

This is Catholicism:

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
The first priest was appointed by Jesus Christ. He named Peter, the foundation upon which he would build his church.
Peter, the Rock.

This is heresy:

I like gnostic wisdom and teachings a lot.

So what most gnostic streams hold is that Peter is a fabrication used to cover up the gnostic Simon Magus.

From the historical view, I would say: yes, that is so.

When I speak of Christianity, the religion of Jerusalem, it means continuity from the Church of Jerusalem which was started by James, the brother of Jesus. The church itself was extinguished by some Roman or Jewish revolt around the 120s, which is why its Patriarchate moved to Constantinople.

All Eastern Orthodoxy is in this communion and Rome is not.

Most specifically because Nicene Christianity says:


The Spirit proceeds from the Father


Catholicism says:


The Sprit proceeds from the Father and from the Son


Gnosticism is slightly between because it is Sophia Achamoth who interacts with the Son, exhibiting Divine Marriage. But she is usually disfigured, inferior, or ignorant of Sophia, the Spirit. Therefor, you have the aeons, and paths, etc., healing and restoring this.

I would say in the strict definition of the Trinity, Christianity was already correct, and the Roman assertion is its own, arbitrary contradiction of what they said they agreed to.

What we notice in the majority of these crises is that the nature of the Son turns out to be less important than the Spirit.

Orthodox Hesychasm is the only practice I know of that allows you to focus Spirit, and so it winds up fairly close to Gnostic Sophia.

*That* is the value system I am trying to push--it has a Christian way, and another that is drawn from similar language and culture. The two need not be at each other's throats; this is the only place we find this value. It is not present in the west or in any English usages of "Christianity" that I see.

I, personally, believe in what appears to me to be the Trinity and Elohim of these sources, slightly differently, but close enough to share the planet.