The Ethiopian Bible

[Ravenlocke]

(Posting this here, if there is a better thread where this might belong, Mods please remove, Thank you.)


The Ethiopian Bible is the oldest, original and most complete bible on earth. Written in Ge’ez an ancient language of Ethiopia, it’s nearly 800 years older than the King James Version and contains 81-88 books compared to 66.

Written on goat skin in the early Ethiopian language of Ge’ez. It is also World’s first illustrated Christian Bible. It includes the Book of EN0CH, Esdras, Buruch and all 3 Books of MACCABEE, and a host of others that was excommunicated from the KJV.

The Ethiopian bible dating analysis dated Garima 2 to be written around 390-570, and Garima 1 from 530-660. During the Italian invasion fire was set in the monastery in the 1930s to destroy the monastery’s church nevertheless the Bible survive.

The original Christianity of Egypt was established by the apostle Mark in AD 42 in Ethiopia (Coptic Church--Coptic Orthodox Christianity) where it spread to Europe and some part of Asia. Today We have been told Christianity came from Rome.

The Catholic Church begin with the teachings of Yeshua (Yehōshu'a) who lived in the 1st century CE in the province of Judea of the Roman Empire. Meanwhile by AD 313, the Roman Empire Catholic Church faced persecution and christianity was not openly practice, the Coptic Orthodox Christianity was flourishing in the Aksumite Empire now in Ethiopia.

Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion Axum Ethiopia, houses the Ark of the Covenant, bears a design similar to that of Eastern Orthodox churches in Europe. Its most recent building, reconstructed in the 1950s, has a dome similar to the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul. It is heavily guarded.

Lalibela is a holy town most famous for its churches carved from the living rock, which play an important part in the history of rock-cut architecture. Its buildings, built in the 11th and 12th centuries, are considered symbolic representations of biblical Jerusalem.

For early Christians, the risk of persecution from the Romans sometimes ran high, forcing them to practice their beliefs in private, posing a challenge for those scholars who study this era.

The King James Version Bible New Testament which is said to be translated from Greek, and the Old Testament from Hebrew and Aramaic, and the Apocrypha from Greek and Latin, All were originally translated from the Ethiopian bible. original Greek Bible was written around AD 1500.

It is also known that Ancient Afrikans of Old Egypt (Kemet) studied this bible in their temple which was known as the "The Book of the Coming Forth by Day and Night". The original Bible was produced by Black Afrikans approximately 3,400 years.

Before the Old Testament and more than 4,200 years before the New Testament, and countless versions of it have been written and published. Different scholars also translated the bible to their local languages during their studies in Kemet.

Your comments on this

https://x.com/AfricanHub_/status/1821552175241126036

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/Africax5/status/1574101587848560641

https://x.com/Xtreme20X/status/1814154782527180944

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
The Ethiopian Bible, believed to be the world's first illustrated Christian Bible, was written on goat skin and created around the early 5th Century CE. Named after the monk Abba Garima, who is said to have copied the text in a single day with divine assistance, the Garima Gospels are beautifully illustrated and well-preserved. The Ethiopian Heritage Fund has contributed to conserving this remarkable relic, which has been kept in the Garima Monastery near Adwa in the Tigray region of Ethiopia ever since its creation.

https://x.com/historyinmemes/status/1739856393958457607

[Jim_Duyer]

Nice thread. One part I can add to:
The original Christianity of Egypt was established by the apostle Mark in AD 42 in Ethiopia (Coptic Church--Coptic Orthodox Christianity) where it spread to Europe and some part of Asia. Today We have been told Christianity came from Rome.-------

Actually, Seba, aka Sheba, Queen of Ethiopia and Yemen (aka Seba), brought back the Old Testament in Hebrew-Aramaic in 930 B.C., and copies went to both Ethiopia and Yemen.
S with diacritical markings over it, like the Sumerian, Akkadian, Aramaic, was taken into Hebrew as Sh, their Shin.

Have you mastered Ge'ez by any chance?

[Ravenlocke]

“ Have you mastered Ge'ez by any chance?”

I don’t know anything about this language.

[Jim_Duyer]

Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
“ Have you mastered Ge'ez by any chance?”

I don’t know anything about this language.

Well it seems complicated and I don't know it either.

[shaberon]

Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
Actually, Seba, aka Sheba, Queen of Ethiopia and Yemen (aka Seba), brought back the Old Testament in Hebrew-Aramaic in 930 B.C., and copies went to both Ethiopia and Yemen.

Is there any physical evidence of this?

Or, rather, I would say that is entirely impossible.

Sheba was an associate of Solomon.

It is only after them that Elijah "discovered" Yhwh, ca. 900 B. C.E., and most of the Old Testament was accreted after this.

The first complete New Testament is Codex Sinaiticus (ca. 325-340), which contains a very embarrassing edit.

If you are interested in Apostolic Succession, then you better look at Mark--Africa and Thomas--India. Coptic and Eastern Christianity are rather vacant of the complications that befall churches in other societies.

In the OP concerning the "Ark", that is always pushing it, and you can't "excommunicate" the Apocrypha. The line about "Kemet" is even more farfetched. Saying the "Greek Bible" comes from 1500 circumvents the issue that Jesus began his ministry by quoting a Greek scroll of Isaiah. I'm not sure anyone has looked in to this?

In the 1500s, then-European explorers of India were baffled and amazed to find evidence of the Romans and Christianity. So we can't credit that branch with being too particularly wise about the Succession.

What went on with Ethiopia is perhaps rather interesting, but any kind of assertion should be met with further scrutiny.

[Tintin]

Posted by shaberon (here)

Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
Actually, Seba, aka Sheba, Queen of Ethiopia and Yemen (aka Seba), brought back the Old Testament in Hebrew-Aramaic in 930 B.C., and copies went to both Ethiopia and Yemen.

What went on with Ethiopia is perhaps rather interesting, but any kind of assertion should be met with further scrutiny.

Yes, I tend to agree here: I'd rather see some evidence. I also do think the content in the OP is maybe somewhat speculative.

[Jim_Duyer]

The Kebra Nagast, var. Kebra Negast (Ge'ez: ክብረ ነገሥት, kəbrä nägäśt), or The Glory of the Kings, is a 14th-century[1] national epic of Ethiopia, written in Geʽez by the nebure id Ishaq of Aksum. In its existing form, the text is at least 700 years old and is considered by many Orthodox Tewahedo Christians to be a historically reliable work.[2] It is considered to hold the genealogy of the Solomonic dynasty, which followed the Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

The text contains an account of how the Queen of Sheba (Queen Makeda of Ethiopia) met King Solomon and about how the Ark of the Covenant came to Ethiopia with their son Menelik I (Menyelek). It also discusses the conversion of Ethiopians from the worship of the Sun, Moon, and stars to that of the "Lord God of Israel". As the Ethiopianist Edward Ullendorff explained in the 1967 Schweich Lectures, "The Kebra Nagast is not merely a literary work, but it is the repository of Ethiopian national and religious feelings".[3]

There are other works that confirm this idea. The Ark of course held the Torah, as it always did.

[ExomatrixTV]

Am not asking this question to diminish the importance of The Ethiopian Bible ... but how much of all wisdom & insights they collected are actually (partly copies or translations/interpretations) from much older scripture coming from ancient: India, Egypt, Babylon, Summer, Assyria, other parts of Asia etc. etc.

• And how much are actual new original authentic "stand alone" texts?

Or is it wrong to think like that?

We all know UFOs have been sighted/witnessed/interacted throughout human existence, almost like we are a "Zoo" of some kind ... and some of these ancient UFOs may "tweak" humanities progression here and there and time-travel to the future to see the results of their interventions.

If this is the case, the "base story" the ancient UFOs injected in to humanity since the beginning>>> may not that different, unless humans decided to change the "messages from God" for their own benefits & having power/influence over millions.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[ExomatrixTV]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=K_w-mhs0-64

2,508,056+ views

Above video tries to explain why certain things are banned from The Ethiopian Bible using a mixed bag of: "logic", conjecture, "reason", assumptions, beliefs, "wanting things to be like that" to make "more sense" etc. etc.

• My thoughts about that are quite simple:

How sure are you that all "assumed lies" are actual lies? ... And let's say, it is "only" possible to sift thought the (possible) lies & (possible) truths seeking "similarities" between different "trusted authorities" investigating separately coming to almost "the same conclusion" is FOR ME not real "evidence" but rather just some authoritative people who have similar upraising, conditioning, beliefs, unchallenged assumptions & own BIAS

It often does the opposite: "seeking what fits their point of view" ... And some of it may be correct, but in my view: not everything! (...)

And having doubts is not really encouraged if you are a "believer" ... That is why "doubting Thomas" is used as an example how the herd should see & treat people like that! (...)

We are not encouraged to question how Thomas was/is represented & framed ... if he would be still alive and set the record straight using the most advanced "lie detection" equipment like a "live brain scanner" he may show the world the mechanism of demonization of anyone questioning so-called "authorities"... This issue is has always been with us throughout human history!

I have no "empathy" nor endorse "doubting Thomas" >>> because I do not know who he really is nor do I know how good he was ... I DO NOT KNOW to make an honest "judgment call" ... But I do know how he is used in a mass psychological (symbolic) way!

--o-O-o--

ps: "(...)" means "think about that" ... or "let that sink in for a minute".

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

• @ereketnigussie5531 quote:

"As Ethiopian and also as a deacon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, I would like to inform you that our bible has 81 books not 88. And Christianity came to our society not in the 4th century but around 34 A.D when the eunuch of candace of the Ethiopians came back to Ethiopia. Acts chapter 8" unquote

[Jim_Duyer]

Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
Am not asking this question to diminish the importance of The Ethiopian Bible ... but how much of all wisdom & insights they collected are actually (partly copies or translations/interpretations) from much older scripture coming from ancient: India, Egypt, Babylon, Summer, Assyria, other parts of Asia etc. etc.

• And how much are actual new original authentic "stand alone" texts?

Or is it wrong to think like that?

We all know UFOs have been sighted/witnessed/interacted throughout human existence, almost like we are a "Zoo" of some kind ... and some of these ancient UFOs may "tweak" humanities progression here and there and time-travel to the future to see the results of their interventions.

If this is the case, the "base story" the ancient UFOs injected in to humanity since the beginning>>> may not that different, unless humans decided to change the "messages from God" for their own benefits & having power/influence over millions.

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

Am not asking this question to diminish the importance of The Ethiopian Bible ... but how much of all wisdom & insights they collected are actually (partly copies or translations/interpretations) from much older scripture coming from ancient: India, Egypt, Babylon, Summer, Assyria, other parts of Asia etc. etc. I don't feel it diminishes anything - every single region, time period and peoples borrowed from one another in the Middle Eastern sphere. Even the Bible and the Ethiopian Bible and the Mandaean Bible and the Vedics and the Zarasthruans.


Or is it wrong to think like that? I don't think it is wrong to question anything that we read or see.

And how much are actual new original authentic "stand alone" texts? Even these were not original according to the ancient Rabbi = there were hints about Sheba bringing the Ark and about the conversion of Ethiopians to Hebrew beliefs prior to Christianity - they are found in the commentaries. There were also Hebrew hints that the Ark might have been brought to Ethiopia.

As far as UFOs go - the earliest, and by that I mean the writing done in symbols that existed Prior to cuneiform, or from the time of Gobekli Tepe until 3000 BC when cuneiform arose, speak very clearly, in much detail, and with much repetition, of aliens who were their brutal masters and who took some of the locals back to their home worlds as slaves to the stars. If you use a template to translate the Book of Job to Sumerian, which I have made (much as there is a template made by Jewish scholars to translate Aramaic to Hebrew characters) then you will find the same laments about the aliens in that text as well.

I find it difficult not to believe the vast volume of words that they wrote down in respect to this. And they claim that they looked like us, except for the fact that their skin was rough or chapped - perhaps due to the effects of different suns. And of course both the Sumerian Texts and Job tell us that we did not originate on Earth but were brought here.

[shaberon]

Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
"As Ethiopian and also as a deacon of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, I would like to inform you that our bible has 81 books not 88. And Christianity came to our society not in the 4th century but around 34 A.D when the eunuch of candace of the Ethiopians came back to Ethiopia. Acts chapter 8"

Here is where we are at loggerheads.

I would not call that remotely reliable.

Why not? Because Acts of the Apostles is a complete forgery.

Suspending disbelief for a moment, you couldn't import "Christianity" in year 34 because it had not been invented.

Acts did that, by distorting Paul.


So, ok. In Ethiopia, they have a text that *may* be from around the year 400, although that is the extreme end of the range of possibilities.


What is going on that makes it?

Well, we don't think there are any kind of written records until at least the 100s. Not of the scripture, but there is Nag Hammadi. Modern thinking suggests this was a library from Jerusalem which was hidden when the Romans got destructive.



By most accounts, Mark is considered the first Apostle. The Coptic Church of Alexandria, and some Rosicrucians, attribute their origin to Apostle Mark the Lion. This part is probably physically accurate:


...being the founder of the see of Alexandria in the first century...

This is the lore:

His house was the first Christian church, where they ate the Passover, hid after the death of the Lord Christ, and in its upper room the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Mark accompanied Paul and Barnabas in their missionary journeys, preaching the gospel in Antioch, Seleucia, Cyprus, Salamis, and Perga Pamphylia, where he left them and returned to Jerusalem. After the apostolic council in Jerusalem, he went with Barnabas to Cyprus.

After the departure of Barnabas, St. Mark went to Afrikia, Berka, and the five Western cities. He preached the gospel in these parts, and on his account many believed. From there, he went to Alexandria in 61 A.D.

In the story, it is important that Mark is with Paul.

If we turn for outside corroboration, of anything, we could say that Mark made an establishment in Alexandria around 61, and that Thomas did so in India by 52.

They couldn't have had Bibles.

It gets a little weird. I just know this is a tradition in Orthodoxy:


Apostle Thomas founded Christian churches in Palestine, Mesopotamia, Parthia, Ethiopia and India.


According to Tewahedo:


Some of the apostolic missions of St Thomas that recorded in the Ethiopic Synaxarium are summarized as follows: St. Thomas went to his apostolic diocese, India and Kantara...


It's silent about him appearing in their country. The Assyrian Church remembers Thomas perfectly well.


Hrm. So we notice in the irregularities of the canonical books:


Matthew specifically identifies John the Baptist as Elijah's spiritual successor, the gospels of Mark and Luke are silent on the matter. The Gospel of John states that John the Baptist denied that he was Elijah.


In Matthew 17:11–13, Jesus speaking calls him Elijah; in John, John's own words deny he is anything special.


John the Baptist was Mandean. It seems likely to me there was a historical Jesus in the Order of Melchizedek of Psalm 110. He began by pointing to the section on Deror in Isaiah, from the later, redacted part. It is only found in Exile texts because it is cognate to Babylonian Andararum.


But that is not what our attention is drawn to by these contradictory scriptures. From the view that they are Piso satire:


The gospels of 'Mark' and 'Matthew' are not written in the first person, i.e., spoken by the author, anywhere in the text. Instead, both narratives are told in the third person. That is why scholars doubt and have concluded that the author is not relating personal experiences.



So for example if we agree there was a person, Mark, that says nothing about a gospel attributed to this person.



The oldest layers of Nag Hammadi are Sayings Gospels, which are entirely different from the biographical narratives. Not thought to be by the Apostle, the Gospel of Thomas has no narrative; it is almost completely sayings:

Several authors argue that when the logia in Thomas do have parallels in the synoptics, the version in Thomas often seems closer to the source.

In saying 13, Peter and Matthew are depicted as unable to understand the true significance or identity of Jesus.

According to Meyer, Thomas's saying 17 – "I shall give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard and no hand has touched, and what has not come into the human heart" – is strikingly similar to what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:9, which was itself an allusion to Isaiah 64:4.


It was condemned by Cyril; scholars speculate that the works were buried in response to a letter from Bishop Athanasius declaring a strict canon of Christian scripture.

So, there is an intra-textual argument about what constitutes "authentic Paul", while there is in fact a pile of external evidence as well. This falls in the view called:


Marcionite Priority



That is to say, "Marcion's Gospel" is thought likely to be "original" or quite close.


Now, if you leave off from Acts and use a few other dates determined about Paul, the most likely explanation is that he left Jerusalem about six months before Jesus started preaching.

Paul never met Jesus.

Likewise, Marcion never met Paul. However, their message is pretty emphatically identical. Marcion was excommunicated by the church of Rome around 144:


Marcion preached that God had sent Jesus Christ, who was distinct from the "vengeful" God (Demiurge) who had created the world. He considered himself a follower of Paul the Apostle, whom he believed to have been the only true apostle of Jesus Christ

The example of what he was working with may be called Apostolicon:


Galatians, First Corinthians, Second Corinthians, Romans, FirstThessalonians, SecondThessalonians, Ephesians, Colossians, Philemon, Philippians, and Laodiceans (fragment)



Or:

The apostle Paul never met Jesus in life...


...the stories (with the exception of 8 letters written by Paul) were not written by the people to whom they are attributed (they’re forgeries), and c) the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John) weren’t written by anyone who had first-hand knowledge of Jesus (hear-say, if not outright made up), as the first book was written between 30 and 35 years after Jesus was supposed to have died.



Seven letters (with consensus dates)

considered genuine by most scholars:

First Thessalonians (c. 50 AD)
Galatians (c. 53)
First Corinthians (c. 53–54)
Philippians (c. 55)
Philemon (c. 55)
Second Corinthians (c. 55–56)
Romans (c. 57)

The letters on which scholars are about evenly divided:

Colossians
Second Thessalonians

The letters thought to be pseudepigraphic by about 80% of scholars:

Ephesians
First Timothy
Second Timothy
Titus

Finally, Epistle to the Hebrews, though anonymous and not really in the form of a letter, has long been included among Paul's collected letters, but most scholars regard it as not written by Paul.

Going through the seven or eight more reliable articles, you don't get anyone who was a "converted Saul".

However there will be an intense problem with everything I am saying. That is the contents of these letters. They purport to show a date range of alleged primacy, but we hit this difficulty with Paul:


If Paul wasn’t writing in response to a historical Lord Jesus Christ, how are we to understand his constant references to this character? Or was he?



You can't look it up in the Bible. You can't use critical editions of the texts. You have to have original manuscripts.

It's quite similar to questions about Masoretic Hebrew, except it means Paul never heard of Jesus:

...fourth century textual families where some render XS as Christos and some as Chrestos. It is evident that those copyists were engaged in some type of guesswork.

Marcion’s manuscripts contained the Nomina Sacra abbreviations. And we can be equally certain that he didn’t understand all of them in the same way as later copyists.

Marcion filled in the missing letters in some of the abbreviated terms differently than did the later copyists.

All evidence points to the following differences:

Abbreviation....Traditional Spelling....Marcion’s Spelling

ΧΣ Χριστός (Christos/Christ).... χρηστός (Chrestos)
ΙΣ Ἰησοῦς (Iesous/Jesus).... ΙΣ (IS)


The earliest (Christian) inscription is from a Marcionite church building in Lebada, Syria near Damascus, ca 318, was dedicated to “IS Chrestos”.

Other early fathers also used Chrestos, and called his followers Chrestianoi, including Clement of Alexandria who wrote, in Book II of the Stromata, “All who believe in Chrestos both are, and are called, Chrestianoi, that is, good men.”

Suddenly we are looking at authentic Paul up through later Marcionite churches, who are talking about IS Chrestos.

That is exactly what we will see, on the *original* Codex Sinaiticus manuscript, which has been edited.

We can imagine around the 300s, some kind of enforcement was coming out, leading to the murder of Hypatia around 414, in Alexandria. Does that represent authentic Mark?

That is what made me curious about the Ethiopian Bible, except I am quite leery of the forces emanating from Cyril and Athanasius. It seems odd to quote Acts while being unaware of the mission of Thomas. I'm kind of thinking it is unable to fill these gaps.



In the early 100s, Hadrian wrote of Alexandria and the Serapis Christians. Serapis had been deliberately spread by Ptolemy Soter. I listed it that way because of the standard Biblical Greek:


sōtḗr (a masculine noun, derived from 4982 /sṓzō, "save") – properly, the Savior, Jesus Christ who saves believers from their sins


I'm not thinking the Ethiopian version can say much about the linguistics or history. It probably is a remarkable example of how long something can survive in favorable conditions. And, at least, it is out of the grip of Rome. Perhaps until they get attacked in the 20th century.

If we bend Hadrian's spelling, it is more likely "Chrestos" was a term from the Serapis cult, and that Paul, an Aramaic Jew, spoke this vernacular, like soldiers and slaves. It is possible Paul's name was magnified to blot out Apollonius of Tyana. It is practically certain it was to over-write him and make his life read differently.

If seen this way, Paul and Jesus are speaking against Yhwh, and so by accretion, a literary circle is drawn around them.

Oddly, it's not physically possible to show that Paul ever heard of Jesus. Usually all you will get is someone's interpretation saying this is so.

[shaberon]

Posted by Jim_Duyer (here)
- every single region, time period and peoples borrowed from one another in the Middle Eastern sphere. Even the Bible and the Ethiopian Bible and the Mandaean Bible and the Vedics and the Zarasthruans.


Or is it wrong to think like that? I don't think it is wrong to question anything that we read or see.

And how much are actual new original authentic "stand alone" texts? Even these were not original according to the ancient Rabbi = there were hints about Sheba...

I think there is a way to compare apples to apples here.

The Sheba of Yemen originates at about the 12th century B. C. E.. And so we are going to take on the issue of spoken tradition versus texts. The Mandeans possess no type of book much older than the Koran. But it is possible for the following events around 1,000 B. C. E. in the version that is Mandean:


The particular Solomon and Sheba tale also refers to the mirror pool as found in the Quran sura 27 but not Jewish or Christian literature; nevertheless it is not a tale derivative from Islam but a separate Solomonic tradition.



Okay. "Sheba" is equal to "Sabian". John the Baptist was considered the southern branch of "something". Mandeans say that the Jews are the same people, who decided to follow Moses, whom they rebuke. Those three all lead to Harran:

Harran is situated at an important geographical crossroad, both between the Euphrates and Tigris rivers and at the border between the ancient Mesopotamian and Anatolian cultures. The earliest known settlements in the region surrounding Harran date to 10000–8000 BC and settlements in its close vicinity are known to have existed by 6000 BC. The region initially shifted between the control of the Sumerians and Hittites before being occupied by ancient Semitic-speaking people around 2750 BC. The earliest written records concerning Harran suggest that the city itself was founded c. 2500–2000 BC as a merchant outpost by traders from the Sumerian city of Ur.

Harran was later incorporated into the Mitanni kingdom in the 16th century BC.

Further treaties signed that invoke Sin of Harran include a 14th-century BC treaty between Šuppiluliuma I of the Hittites and Shattiwaza of Mitanni.

This continues at least through Kassite Babylonia:


Since Harran was the sacred city of the moon-god, many Mesopotamian kings travelled there to receive the blessing and confirmation of their rule from the city's religious officials and in turn renovated and expanded Harran and its temples.


The term "Sabian" continued to be used for "astronomer" through the Caliphates. Harran remained pagan until the 1200s.

The Nabatheans were Sabians, and what is interesting is that they domesticated the horse about the same time as the Pontic Steppe, around 2,200 B. C. E.; the horses spoken of in ancient India are this Arabian horse, having thirty-four ribs.

Such Nabatheans must have traded to Sri Lanka, and this is where Islam and Mandeism both say Adam lived.

That's not what is said in Sri Lanka.

The Mittani treaty includes Indian deities. What happens is that local deities from twenty or thirty places are summoned to witness, and Sanskrit jumps out very boldly with Mitravaruna, Indra, Nasatyas. That means there was an Indian village here, near Aleppo.

Those are Vedic deities, and what we notice is the Veda has no Adam story.

What you might call the Babylonian pre-cursors of the Old Testament Adam and Flood myths are not from India, rather, they are imported there perhaps as early as the 200s. To a great extent we can tell which way these arrows are pointing.

An eschatological Savior at End Times is not Indian, either, it is so Zoroastrian, it is what Zoroaster said of himself personally, Soioshant -- *I* shall return and defeat evil. This is different from a "Messiah", because Cyrus the Great *was* the Messiah. Taking in with this the Greek soter, which I think was a medical term, and you get the expectation of a future Messiah *or* the role being filled by Jesus, once, and again. This type of doctrine is not really Indian either.

On the other hand, Genesis and Exodus are Exile material. That is why they look like Babylonian Flood myths. My suggestion is that "Moses" was not a historical figure, but, an attempt at Law rebuilt into a new system--particularly Ezra c. 457 B. C. E..

Wood panel Ezra ca. 3rd century B. C. E.:





That looks like some influence.

If Saul, David, and Solomon never heard of Moses or Yhwh, they were not exactly Jewish, in the normal sense. Part of what Mandeism shares in common with Israelite scripture is Psalms, which are generally considered Davidic.



It may have been unplanned that we make the discovery in Ugarit 1928:


Hadad also calls the king of the gods, El the Bull, father as well. He can probably be equated with Ba'al-Zebul, or Beelzebub, the god of Ekron mentioned in 2 Kings.


Because that is where Elijah and Yhwh come out. It's a definite moment. It's against an established medicine deity. Hadad is a developed enough literature that it is probably not literal:


The Ba’al Cycle is therefore an allegory for how kings should behave, more than it tells anything about Ugarit’s agricultural cycle.



Approximately 1,500 texts and fragments have been found to date, all of which have been dated to the 13th and 12th centuries BC.


Again we can tell which way influence went.

Jesus only referred to El. There is no immediate answer why Yhwh would be carried forward. There are however schools of thought that say it should not be. If not, there would be no Ark to look for.

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/j00ny369T/status/1825961613821903333

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/Adulisian/status/1584287660188704768

[Ravenlocke]

Note: I am not familiar with the Book of Enoch so the following descriptions are unconfirmed as to accuracy of the contents.


Text:
The Book of Enoch, or portions of it, has been discovered in several locations, but one of the most significant discoveries was made in Ethiopia. The most complete version of the Book of Enoch, known as 1 Enoch, is found in Ge'ez, an ancient Ethiopian language. This version is often referred to as the "Ethiopian Enoch" or the "Ethiopic Enoch."

The Ethiopian Enoch was discovered in the 18th century in the Ethiopian monastic community. It was already known to Ethiopian Christians for centuries and had been preserved in their religious texts. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church considers the Book of Enoch to be part of its biblical canon.

The Book of Enoch is an ancient religious text attributed to Enoch, a figure from biblical and apocryphal literature. It's not considered part of the canonical Bible but holds historical and cultural significance. This text is divided into several sections, with the most well-known being the Book of Watchers.

In the Book of Watchers, Enoch describes a series of visions and revelations he experiences. He is taken up to the heavens and encounters angelic beings known as the Watchers. These angels reveal hidden knowledge, both celestial and earthly, to Enoch. They also disclose the fallen angels' transgressions, who descended to Earth, taught forbidden arts, and caused corruption among humans.

Enoch's visions include descriptions of cosmic phenomena, such as the luminaries (sun, moon, stars), their courses, and the secrets of the heavenly realms. He also receives divine instructions on morality, justice, and the impending judgment of the wicked.

The Book of Enoch is known for its vivid descriptions of the celestial realms, the hierarchy of angels, and the consequences of human choices. It emphasizes the importance of righteous living, humility, and devotion to God. Enoch is often regarded as a prophet who foresaw the eventual judgment of both angels and humans.

Text:

The Book of Enoch provides an extensive hierarchy of angels, presenting a detailed account of the celestial beings and their roles in the divine order. While this hierarchy is not standardized across all versions of the Book of Enoch, it often includes various classes of angels, each with specific duties and functions. Here is an overview of the hierarchy of angels as described in the Book of Enoch:
1. Watchers (Grigori): The Watchers are a group of angels who are sent to Earth to watch over humanity. However, they become corrupted when they descend to Earth and intermingle with human women. They are responsible for teaching forbidden knowledge and are eventually punished for their transgressions.
2. Holy Ones (Irin): The Holy Ones are angels of higher rank who remain faithful to God. They serve as heavenly guardians and participate in heavenly councils. They are associated with maintaining the order of the cosmos.
3. Cherubim: Cherubim are angelic beings often depicted as powerful and majestic. They are associated with the throne of God and are considered to be protectors of divine mysteries.
4. Seraphim: Seraphim are angelic beings described as having multiple wings and a fiery appearance. They are closely associated with divine worship and are often depicted as praising and glorifying God.
5. Ophanim: Ophanim, also known as "wheels" or "thrones," are angelic beings associated with divine chariots or heavenly wheels. They are described as having many eyes and wings.
6. Archangels: Archangels are high-ranking angels with specific roles and names. They often serve as messengers or intermediaries between God and humanity. In some versions of the Book of Enoch, notable archangels include Raphael, Uriel, Gabriel, and Michael.
7. Angels of Punishment: These angels are responsible for executing divine judgments and punishments upon the wicked. They carry out God's decrees, ensuring that justice is meted out.
8. Grigori (Fallen Watchers): As mentioned earlier, the Grigori are the Watchers who descend to Earth, become corrupted, and teach forbidden knowledge to humans. They play a significant role in the narrative of Enoch.
9. Guardian Angels: Some versions of the Book of Enoch suggest the existence of guardian angels assigned to individuals, guiding and protecting them throughout their lives.

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[Ravenlocke]

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Enoch's ascent involves traversing through a series of celestial realms, each known as a distinct heaven. These heavenly realms are characterized by unique attributes, inhabitants, and revelations.

In the first heaven, Enoch observes the celestial bodies, gaining insights into the precise order and movements of the universe.
The second heaven introduces Enoch to angels who oversee the elements and natural forces of the Earth. Here, he acquires knowledge about the winds and atmospheric phenomena.

Moving to the third heaven, Enoch encounters the heavenly storehouses of blessings and curses. He witnesses the recording of human deeds and their corresponding consequences.

The fourth heaven unveils the realm of stars and celestial luminaries. Enoch learns about the intricate motions and purposes of the stars and planets.

In the fifth heaven, Enoch comes into contact with powerful angels responsible for the souls of both the righteous and the wicked. He gains insights into the judgment and fate of these souls.

The sixth heaven is home to angels who maintain the cosmic order. Here, Enoch beholds the divine throne and the glorious beings who encircle it.

The seventh heaven represents the culmination of Enoch's journey. It is the dwelling place of God Himself, where Enoch stands in the immediate presence of divine majesty. In this celestial realm, Enoch receives profound revelations about the nature of God, divine secrets, and the ultimate destiny of humanity.

Having completed this awe-inspiring journey and having acquired profound knowledge, Enoch returns to Earth as a chosen messenger of God. He is entrusted with the sacred task of sharing his revelations and teachings with humanity. This includes prophecies concerning future events, divine judgment, and the consequences of leading lives marked by righteousness or wickedness. Enoch's journey, therefore, emerges as a symbol of spiritual enlightenment, divine communion, and the transmission of sacred wisdom for the betterment of humanity.

The "Apocalypse of Weeks"

The "Apocalypse of Weeks" is a section of the Book of Enoch, specifically found in the Book of Dreams (also known as the Book of the Luminaries). In this apocalyptic text, Enoch receives revelations about the future in a structured framework of "weeks," each representing a period of time.

The Apocalypse of Weeks outlines the historical events and spiritual developments that will unfold over the course of 10 weeks, offering a prophetic vision of the future. Here is a brief summary of some of the key themes in this section:

Week 1-7: These initial weeks describe the course of human history, including periods of righteousness followed by wickedness. Enoch predicts the coming of a Messianic figure who will bring judgment and righteousness.

Week 8-9: These weeks depict the judgment of the fallen angels (Watchers) who had corrupted humanity and taught forbidden knowledge. Enoch foresees their imprisonment and punishment.

Week 10: This final week represents the ultimate culmination of history, marked by the resurrection of the righteous, the final judgment of the wicked, and the establishment of God's eternal kingdom.

The "Apocalypse of Weeks" provides a prophetic framework for understanding the progression of time, the cycles of righteousness and wickedness in human history, and the ultimate triumph of divine justice. It reflects themes of eschatology, the end times, and the coming of a Messianic figure.
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[meat suit]

Here is an online version of the book of Enoch

https://sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/index.htm

[Irminsül]

Hello shaberon! I've been reading your posts and the level of depth of the research you carry out is noticeable. Which is excellent and I congratulate you for that

It seems that you have a lot of knowledge when it comes to Christianity, the study of the Bible and related subjects. So I wanted to ask you the following questions:

• Can it be known if there is anything in the Nag Hammadi texts that reflect the original and authentic teachings of Jesus of Nazareth? Or are they (as many say) a distorted and modified version of his teachings?
  
• Can it be identified throughout the New Testament, which books have been the least modified?
  
• Are there apocryphal gospels that are of more "value" than the canonical ones in terms of being more likely to have been written by people who lived with Jesus and knew him directly?
  
• In order to have a more complete vision, the ideal would be to read the Codex Sinaiticus, the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Alexandrinus? Or is there one of those three manuscripts that stands out above the others in terms of the quality of its content?