Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[greybeard]

URGENT Message! The Battle For YOUR Human DNA Is On! This HIDDEN Code Will UPGRADE You! Gregg Braden

Well worth a listen.
Quite a lot of spiritual content
WE ARE GOD ETERNAL within the body
Gregg says that about 50 minutes into the video
Jesus said "Of myself I do nothing, It is the Father within"

Love Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=APv_qzVGXr0

[greybeard]

Horses have been my teacher

This by a friend, Mary Berkery i very interesting
She is a spiritual Teacher.

If you love horses you need to listen to this and other videos featuring Mary Berkery easily found on u tube

Love Chris

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nm3da_MTQ1Y

[Wind]

This Existence Is A DREAM: Awakening To Your True Self & Exploring Nonduality | Rupert Spira

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Smqgkab8HZI

[gini]

'I Renounce My Attainments '- Delson Armstrong

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lMwZWQo36cY

--15/11/24-- Guru Viking Interview Series
'In this episode I am once again joined by Delson Armstrong, spiritual teacher, meditation virtuoso, and author of ‘A Mind Without Craving’.

In this interview, Delson renounces all of his previous claims to spiritual attainment.

Delson details recent changes in his inner experiences that saw him question the nature of his awakening, including the arising of emotions and desires that he thought had long been expunged. Delson critiques the consequences of the Buddhist doctrine of the 10 fetters, reveals his redefinition of awakening and the stages of the four path model from stream enterer to arhat, and challenges cultural ideals about enlightenment.

Delson offers his current thoughts on the role of emotions in awakening, emphasises the importance of facing one’s trauma, and discusses his plans to broaden his own teaching to include traditions such as Kriya Yoga.

Delson also reveals the pressures put on him by others’ agendas and shares his observations about the danger of student devotion, the hypocrisy of spiritual leaders, and his mixed feelings about the monastic sangha. '
00:00 - Intro
01:14 - Delson’s declaration
07:56 - Why has Delson changed his view?
10:13 - Pressure on Delson and other peoples’ agendas
15:12 - Delson’s shocking observations about his 3 year teaching experiment
15:53 - Teaching debut under Bhante Vimalaramsi
17:22 - European teaching tour
17:32 - Tension towards other traditions at Dhammasukha
19:26 - Teacher-student divide at Dhammasukha
20:14 - Tensions with the Indian sangha
21:18 - Discomfort with guru worship in India
22:41 - Mixed feelings about the monastic community
24:30 - Teachers should never stop learning
24:45 - The 10 fetter model and an unhealthy narrative of spiritual success
26:15 - Potential for teacher-student abuse
27:41 - Questioning the 10 fetter model
29:28 - Ideals of awakening and cultural projections
30:48 - Transcending all models and systems
31:39 - Importance of ethics
33:21 - Why is Delson renouncing all spiritual attainments?
36:15 - Being open to your own experience
37:06 - Don’t gloss over suffering
39:41 - Changes in Delson’s understanding about the Buddha, dharma, and sangha
44:20 - Rethinking negative emotion and the end of craving
47:23 - The Simile of the Saw Sutta, Kakacūpamasutta
48:11 - Recontextualising the higher fetters of restlessness, conceit, and ignorance
49:15 - Is awakening static?
50:06 - Delson’s definition of awakening
51:55 - Redefining the 4-path model from stream-enterer to arhat
54:10 - What is a stream-enterer?
54:55 - What is a once-returner?
55:37 - What is a non-returner?
56:04 - What is an arhat?
57:26 - Facing the shadow
59:10 - What was the experience that changed Delson’s mind?
01:02:48 - Learning from conflict and shadow
01:04:37 - Maintaining the image of a teacher
01:05:12 - No longer a teacher
01:06:35 - The corrupting pride of being a spiritual teacher
01:07:04 - Hypocrisy of spiritual leaders
01:09:23 - Do not seek perfection in Delson
01:10:14 - K the Buddha
01:11:44 - Against disempowering students
01:14:06 - Does Delson believe awakening even possible?
01:17:12 - What is awakening?
01:18:06 - Levels of awakening
01:18:58 - The true nature of reality
01:20:43 - Siddha tales and Delson’s supernatural experiences
01:24:27- Sifting the serious students from the merely curious
01:25:22 - Delson’s powerful trip to South India, astrology, and mystical experiences
01:31:07 - Delson’s future plans for teaching
01:32:02 - Plans to conduct Kriya Yoga initiations
01:32:41 - Delson as a conduit
01:33:16 - Reactions to Delson’s declaration
01:34:43 - Delson’s concluding message

[Hym]

Posted by gini (here)
'I Renounce My Attainments '- Delson Armstrong

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lMwZWQo36cY

--15/11/24-- Guru Viking Interview Series
'In this episode I am once again joined by Delson Armstrong, spiritual teacher, meditation virtuoso, and author of ‘A Mind Without Craving’.

In this interview, Delson renounces all of his previous claims to spiritual attainment.

Delson details recent changes in his inner experiences that saw him question the nature of his awakening, including the arising of emotions and desires that he thought had long been expunged. Delson critiques the consequences of the Buddhist doctrine of the 10 fetters, reveals his redefinition of awakening and the stages of the four path model from stream enterer to arhat, and challenges cultural ideals about enlightenment.

Delson offers his current thoughts on the role of emotions in awakening, emphasises the importance of facing one’s trauma, and discusses his plans to broaden his own teaching to include traditions such as Kriya Yoga.

Delson also reveals the pressures put on him by others’ agendas and shares his observations about the danger of student devotion, the hypocrisy of spiritual leaders, and his mixed feelings about the monastic sangha. '
00:00 - Intro
01:14 - Delson’s declaration
07:56 - Why has Delson changed his view?
10:13 - Pressure on Delson and other peoples’ agendas
15:12 - Delson’s shocking observations about his 3 year teaching experiment
15:53 - Teaching debut under Bhante Vimalaramsi
17:22 - European teaching tour
17:32 - Tension towards other traditions at Dhammasukha
19:26 - Teacher-student divide at Dhammasukha
20:14 - Tensions with the Indian sangha
21:18 - Discomfort with guru worship in India
22:41 - Mixed feelings about the monastic community
24:30 - Teachers should never stop learning
24:45 - The 10 fetter model and an unhealthy narrative of spiritual success
26:15 - Potential for teacher-student abuse
27:41 - Questioning the 10 fetter model
29:28 - Ideals of awakening and cultural projections
30:48 - Transcending all models and systems
31:39 - Importance of ethics
33:21 - Why is Delson renouncing all spiritual attainments?
36:15 - Being open to your own experience
37:06 - Don’t gloss over suffering
39:41 - Changes in Delson’s understanding about the Buddha, dharma, and sangha
44:20 - Rethinking negative emotion and the end of craving
47:23 - The Simile of the Saw Sutta, Kakacūpamasutta
48:11 - Recontextualising the higher fetters of restlessness, conceit, and ignorance
49:15 - Is awakening static?
50:06 - Delson’s definition of awakening
51:55 - Redefining the 4-path model from stream-enterer to arhat
54:10 - What is a stream-enterer?
54:55 - What is a once-returner?
55:37 - What is a non-returner?
56:04 - What is an arhat?
57:26 - Facing the shadow
59:10 - What was the experience that changed Delson’s mind?
01:02:48 - Learning from conflict and shadow
01:04:37 - Maintaining the image of a teacher
01:05:12 - No longer a teacher
01:06:35 - The corrupting pride of being a spiritual teacher
01:07:04 - Hypocrisy of spiritual leaders
01:09:23 - Do not seek perfection in Delson
01:10:14 - K the Buddha
01:11:44 - Against disempowering students
01:14:06 - Does Delson believe awakening even possible?
01:17:12 - What is awakening?
01:18:06 - Levels of awakening
01:18:58 - The true nature of reality
01:20:43 - Siddha tales and Delson’s supernatural experiences
01:24:27- Sifting the serious students from the merely curious
01:25:22 - Delson’s powerful trip to South India, astrology, and mystical experiences
01:31:07 - Delson’s future plans for teaching
01:32:02 - Plans to conduct Kriya Yoga initiations
01:32:41 - Delson as a conduit
01:33:16 - Reactions to Delson’s declaration
01:34:43 - Delson’s concluding message

Dude,

Delson.

Next time it would be wise, and an obvious part of the process, NOT to advertise going through Shakti Pad, the awareness of the illusionary importance of your f'kn ego. The mere fact that you declared enlightenment in the first place was the clue left with the smell of the doo doo the herd of elephants dumped in your crawl space.... I mean your sacred place of meditation.

[Vicus]

[gini]

A short nicely made biography with beautyfull old footage about the remarkable life of Jiddu 'be a light to yourself ' Krishnamurti. -

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LaMsT3MApP8

--'Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Reluctant Messiah '| Historical Documentary |. 26 min 6 Nov 2024
'The life of Jiddu Krishnamurti is among the most unusual and inspiring stories of the 20th century.'

[greybeard]

Siddharameshwar Maharaj - NON-ACTION (Part 1) - Nisargadatta's Guru - Advaita Vedanta

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=e2yrP8YfxJk

[greybeard]

The Liberating force Kundalini
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...page&q&f=false

Genuine Kundalini spontaneous awakening still a fairly rare even
I spent time on Dr Goel ashram and was invited by him to do a version of fire Ceremony (Thats my ego witing this, smiling)
Burning canfer is offered to the heavens the earth the guru those present. its a bit like the ancient Chinese wedding ceremony.
Chris

[Clear Light]

Posted by greybeard (here)
"Action and non-Action are illusion"

Ah, but, if I may, to whom does Action and non-Action refer ?

Is That So (Zen Story about Hakuin)

The Zen Master Hakuin lived in a town in Japan. He was held in high regard and many people came to him for spiritual teaching. Then it happened that the teenage daughter of his next-door neighbor became pregnant. When being questioned by her angry and scolding parents as to the identity of the father, she finally told them that he was Hakuin, the Zen master. In great anger the parents rushed over to Hakuin and told him with much shouting and accusing that their daughter had confessed that he was the father. All he replied was, “Is that so?”
​
News of the scandal spread throughout the town and beyond. The Master lost his reputation. This did not trouble him. Nobody came to see him anymore. He remained unmoved. When the child was born, the parents brought the baby to Hakuin, “You are the father, so look after him.” The Master took loving care of the child. A year later, the mother remorsefully confessed to her parents that the real father of the child was the young man who worked at the butcher shop. In great distress they went to see Hakuin to apologize and ask for forgiveness. “We are really sorry. We have come to take the baby back. Our daughter confessed that you are not the father.” “Is that so?” is all he would say as he handed the baby over to them.

. : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : . : .

Fame and Fortune come and go, Health and Illness come and go, Friends come and go, Family the same ... from where do all "actions" arise I would ask of He who-is-curious ? It's illuminating if one knows where to look eh ?

[greybeard]

Clear Ligt
The challenge is having a non duality conversation in duality
The David Carese book Perfect Brillian Stillness is excelent its on audio u tube also.
He is clear -- nobody exists jus appearances in consciousness.

However

Not saying I know
Dr David Hawkins, enlightened, said
"If it was not for Kundalini the body would not be able to stand the higher spiritual energy of enlightenment, it would fry in in this heavy density world otherwise"
He also said that Christ and the Buddha had the highest vibration level possible in this world -- Hawkins has a map of consciousnes levels in his book Power vs Force.
Well worth a read.

David Carse speaks of it(Kundalini) when he awakened in the jungle.
Quite a few enloghtened beings whom I have read mention it as part leading up to the Holy instant of enlightenment.

So after enlightenment the body has to still function, perception has changed, no ego no me but there still is the indweller presence within the body.
A usful mantra is Om nama Shivia, this is to help Kundalini to rise.

So thats my current understanding
The moment you think youve got it you havent (Nasargadatta)

Have a listen if you dare Lol

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MOmOuD_13UE

[greybeard]

Will a Realized Person Retain Individuality After Enlightenment? | Advaita Vedanta

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=veRcIPSpjNY

[gini]

(BBC)Interview with Jiddu Krishnanurti about Enlightenment.-

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4DXDDf2FRMU

---28min-21 Aug 2021
'This video gives some inkling about Krishnamurti's teaching and the general philosophy behind it. In this inteview K gives the life's philosophy and his intent behind schools run by his foundation whole over the world. Very interesting and enlightning understanding about K's teachings. Since it was issued by BBC the video would be available for short duration for students of K's teachings as it would infringe the publisher's rights.'

[greybeard]

Adyashanti on the Teachings of Nisargadatta Maharaj

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=B2zqUTP17js

[greybeard]

Belated Happy New Year

There Is a Reality, but No World ‘Out There’

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ipzRC2C0x34

[araucaria]

Posted by gini (here)
(BBC)Interview with Jiddu Krishnanurti about Enlightenment.-

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4DXDDf2FRMU

---28min-21 Aug 2021
'This video gives some inkling about Krishnamurti's teaching and the general philosophy behind it. In this inteview K gives the life's philosophy and his intent behind schools run by his foundation whole over the world. Very interesting and enlightning understanding about K's teachings. Since it was issued by BBC the video would be available for short duration for students of K's teachings as it would infringe the publisher's rights.'

Hi there, Greybeard, good to talk with you again. It’s been a good while since I found something on Avalon of immediate interest, still less to the point of responding. This Krishnamurti-BBC clash has to be of major interest to anyone who like myself has thinking as their stronger suit. This is because its coordinates are known: we have been here before.


This is a rerun of the story of Alexander, king of the known world, the Elon Musk of his day with his technology and high-speed vehicle, the horse Bucephalus, taking Aristotle and Co – the world of thought – to the universe, and his encounter with Diogenes the hermit. The French call hoarding the Diogenes syndrome, but the real Diogenes had given up everything he possessed. So what happened when the man who owned just about everything met the man who rejected just about everything? He took away his sunshine until Diogenes prevailed upon him to step aside. So for Diogenes Alexander’s shadow was the one spot in the world where the sun didn’t shine, and for Alexander, who complied, this was the one spot in the world that he failed to conquer. They agreed to disagree and go their separate ways with no hard feelings, leaving us with the eternal dilemma of thought/action v contemplation/inaction and the permanent scar of knowing that either position has this weak point.


So, when the interviewer here gently tackles Krishnamurti on thought, and Krishnamurti smiles his way out of the dilemma whereby he uses thought to dismiss thought itself, the major takeaway is both a thought and a feeling. The thought that no one has won this debate, the feeling that courtesy and humour and tolerance, as fairly superficial expressions of this altogether deeper thing we call love, is the way forward where entities can throw aside their differences and occupy the same space, the same universe. Another aspect of this attitude would be playfulness, expressed in things such as games. An example of a purely Alexandrian game would be chess, on an 8x8 grid fought to the bitter end with one king left standing. Sudoku, on the other hand, is a game that Diogenes could also play, but in a spirit of mutual cooperation. I’d like to look at this as a kind of parable for what might be going on at this middle ground where most of us are lacking the background to get a proper feeling for what Krishnamurti is basically translating into the langage of thought. This would be the foreground where Alexander is casting a bit of useful shade enabling us to cope with the blindingly obvious midday sun.


Sudoku us played on a 9x9 square with the numbers 1-9 used 9 times each. It works in not two but three dimensions, the third being represented visually by the nine squares within the square. So each number, 1-9, has eight counterparts but is unique in each of these three dimensions, meaning the only one of its kind within any one dimension. Either way, sameness/difference is in relation to all the others; uniqueness goes hand in hand with solidarity. So you have nine sets of nine numbers gathered each in three groups, a row, a column and a square, making 27 groups altogether. So it’s as if you had 243 numbers instead of 81. Collectively, the grid is more than the sum of its parts.


I’ll stop there, before I miscount something, but you get my drift. The object of the game is to reconstruct an entire pre-existing grid from a given few numbers. The setter can introduce various levels of difficulty through the overall number of numbers given and/or the number of different figures used. More of either makes for an easier grid, so to a certain extent at least, a simpler level just means a grid closer to completion. However, the degree of difficulty can actually increase, meaning the number of available possibilities is reduced, to the point of having to abandon when there seem to be none at all. When things become too hard, it may well be that a mistake has been made, which is why it helps to work with a pencil and eraser in order to work backwards to some earlier stage ‘before the fall’. But when that difficulty is overcome, things can accelerate explosively, to the stage where, instead of a linear progression, the whole solution becomes immediately accessible at high speed and in any order, everything happening at once.


Hence the level of difficulty at any one point is variable; like an astrologer, you need to wait until the stars are aligned, the time is ripe (the Greek kairos). Things happen in a certain (not entirely rigid) order. This is where we come to the analogy with a particular universe, at once eternal in that everything is pre-arranged, and time-driven with an end purpose of revealing it in its every detail. There are quite a few insights to be gained from this mere game, e.g. by personalizing the numbers. One is the varying degree of effort/effortlessness with which a given number finds its place. Those actually supplied in advance would be comparable to gods or established truths to be ignored at one’s peril. ‘Knowing’ does not have to equate with ‘all-knowing’. Those discovered directly therefrom are like prophets, or possibly false prophets if out of place. Or at the other end of the spectrum, by the time the possibilities have been drastically reduced there will be latecomers who have no problem finding their predestined place, and basically performing like some group we hear about, such as advanced beings, or possibly somewhat robotic walk-ins, or young souls starting out playing a very small part. We usually have several ways of envisaging the same thing, just as every blank square opens up several options.


This sudoku grid is likely the simplest form we have of this mathematical analogy, but this might be a timely moment. The other day I was reading somewhere how the currently very important number 2025 is the product of 45x45, 45 being the sum of the digits 1-9, and also the sum of the cubes of those same digits, i.e. 1+8+27+64+125+216+343+512+729=2025. Given that conventional digital computers start with the even numbers only in this sequence, it would appear that we have a situation where the mechanical thought of AI is only ever going to provide half the answer. As we saw, the sudoku grid plays around with the same nine numbers, without bothering to do the sums, but it also includes a whole palette of odd numbers.


An altogether more complex analogical form might be the Nineveh number discovered by Maurice Chatelain on some ancient clay tablet (there is a thread or post on this topic somewhere on this forum). This time-based number is based on 60, the number used since time immemorial to count seconds and minutes : thus 60 to the seventh power multiplied by 70 gives the number of seconds for the entire solar system to reset to a given configuration (over six million years). While the math becomes mind-boggling, the inadequacy of our sheer brain power to take it all in, as emphasized by Krishnamurti, is by no means necessarily an obstacle to achieving this greater understanding of everything that puts a smile on one’s face. He and others like him represent just one of many paths contributing to the collective destiny. In terms of knowing smiles, solving a sudoku puzzle would be like a tiny microcosm: all’s right with the world... until you start another one.


As I was saying, the actual mathematics are merely a backdrop to the game. You can play something like sudoku with letters of the alphabet: all kinds of word squares, anagrams, acrostics. Or for that matter with photos of family members or other people, creating plots for stories or whatever. Altogether then, thinking for relaxation and entertainment, playing with ideas, is one way of combating the common misconception of thought as seriously hard work with an absolute goal of infinite bliss to avoid ultimate catastrophe, and a way of better experiencing wholeness without the need for either science teachers, or gurus for that matter.


A happy and playful new year to one and all.




PS. Thanks to Gini for posting this video - my mistake.

[O Donna]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Belated Happy New Year

There Is a Reality, but No World ‘Out There’

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ipzRC2C0x34

"One experience that we have that is not mediated through the finite mind, the Awareness of Being. All other awareness experiences are through the agency of the finite mind but its experience of itself is direct its direct knowledge..."

Awareness of Being, transcends time/ space (a construct of the finite mind). Accessible for/ at all 'time'.

Though the following clip is artistic/ Hollywood (sound, sun, beach etc.) it too points as all finite things do...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=prUYzLJ_4KM

[greybeard]

The 7 Hardest Spiritual Tests Only the Chosen Ones Endure || Alan Watts Motivational Speech

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UAl4FsK88Fs

[onawah]

I just had an interesting experience which I am still grokking
I was happy to see Greybeard has been back on the forum of late, but when I checked out his latest post featuring the talk (supposedly) by the late Alan Watts, I was chagrined to see that it is yet another one of many that have been showing up on Youtube recently.
(No reflection on you, Greybeard.)
...Which at first glance appear to be recorded talks from Alan Watts, but when you take a closer look (and listen), you will see this disclaimer on the youtube page:

This channel is not affiliated with, endorsed by, or claiming to represent Alan Watts. The content shared here is inspired by Alan Watts' ideas and philosophies but is solely for motivational and educational purposes. All rights to Alan Watts' original works and words belong to the respective copyright holders. This channel aims to spread positivity and insights through motivational content inspired by his teachings.
How this content was made
Altered or synthetic content
Sound or visuals were significantly edited or digitally generated. Learn more:
https://support.google.com/youtube/a...14328491?hl=en

The latter link is to a whole page about "synthetic content", in other words, AI generated text, synthetic voices impersonating real human speakers, etc.

I had seen a number of other "synthetic" Alan Watts talks online recently, which concerned me for a number of reasons, one being that most people have probably not read the disclaimer and are not aware that the voice they are hearing is not Alan Watts' and the content is AI generated.
Though the content may be based on genuine talks or written work by Alan Watts, they are not word-for-word renditions of his work.
Although people may be benefiting from the synthetic words of wisdom from the voice that almost sounds identical to Alan Watts' real voice, the practice is lacking in integrity and I think it is sad and rather shameful (but perhaps that is just me and my aversion to the potentially dark side of AI).

But the subject of this particular talk, which has to do with spending time in solitude and introspection interested me since I do a lot of both, so I decided to listen to it anyway and see what I thought about whether it was actually close to something Watts would have said.
(I have a particular interest in Watts not just because I admired his work and have a background in Zen practice, but also because I was profoundly impressed when I saw him speak in person.
I lived very near to where he lived in Marin County, across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco, CA. and a good friend of mine was also a good friend of Watts and served as his gardener for a number of years.
Also, I think there must have been a past life connection because I felt his passing remotely at the moment of his death, though I was unaware at the time that he was dying.)

Listening to the talk, I was very surprised and also rather alarmed at how much wisdom was being reflected, if only second hand, and also at how synchronisitic it was, because it was so much about the very things that I had been reflecting about deeply, just a day or two before I came across the talk.
It creeped me out a bit, in the way that many people are creeped out about how AI seems to be reading our minds (although, of course, that's only because it is watching what we are doing online and making suggestions based on those observations).
AI is reportedly only generating suggestions about what we might like to focus on based on its conclusions drawn from previous choices we have made, mostly online (unless, according to a theory, AI is actually being used by or is itself using an ET race --probably Reptilianns--to gradually dominate Earth).
Whatever the case, I am not the only one who is alarmed by the runaway "advances" of technology which have gotten so out of control, and this case of advice coming from "synthetic wise men" is no exception.
Part of the message from synthetic Alan Watts was to be wary of fear and to be very mindful of the tricks our own minds can play on us.
So there is a curious feedback loop characteristic of this experience which is at once instructive and very creepy.
All part of the human learning process, no doubt, and probably something at least some of us have gone through before in the distant past during our evolutionary journey, which may explain why I felt an element of deja vu as well.

Posted by greybeard (here)
The 7 Hardest Spiritual Tests Only the Chosen Ones Endure || Alan Watts Motivational Speech

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UAl4FsK88Fs

[greybeard]

Yes there are no chosen ones, or tests, though duality can be testing.
Thank you onawah
With love
Chris