1st March 2025 01:09
Link to Post #19076
Re: WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia
Well worth reading (and copying here!) in full, as it's being continually updated. Here's the latest version of the long report:
Zelenskyy 'regrets' what happened today: Ukrainian Officials "Desperate" to get deal back on track after Oval Office meltdown, Trump not interested
Update (1922ET): The significance of today's meltdown in the Oval Office between Trump, Vance, and Zelenskyy cannot be overstated.
Essentially here's what went down:
A deal was done, as far as US officials were concerned, and then Zelenskyy asked for more after engaging in a spat with VP JD Vance. According to CBS News' Jennifer Jacobs:"Trump fully intended to sign the minerals deal today. Two official binders were prepared -- Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and his Ukrainian counterpart and the two presidents were going to sit at a conference table in the East Room and then trumpet their success at podiums."
...
None of this drama [was] premeditated. Trump officials were incredulous that some media outlets suggested it might have been. The greeting with Trump and Zelenskyy was warm, with jokes and a guest book signing in the West Wing lobby. They went straight into the Oval and the vibe was positive. White House wanted this deal done today.
Trump believes that Zelenskyy missed out on a huge opportunity to have the US as a business partner, with US companies helping Ukraine monetize mineral resources such as gas, oil, aluminum, tritrium, gallium and others. Trump viewed it as the 1st step in in a progression towards peace.
Which explains why Secretary of State Marco Rubio looked like this in the middle of the spat:
https://x.com/amuse/status/1895559986291315150
Later,
Zelenskyy went on Fox News, where he acknowledged that he 'regretted' what went down - but said
he doesn't think he did anything wrong.
"
I am not sure we did something bad," he told Baier, adding "I respect president Trump and the American people, but we have to be very honest and direct to understand each other."
https://twitter.com/i/status/1895621628182348266
According to Jacobs, Trump is "unwilling to talk to Zelenskyy further today."
Shortly before Zelenskyy appeared on
Fox,
Trump told the press that Zelenskyy "overplayed his hand."
https://x.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1895607886472262138
Conservative commentator Richard Hanania lays out what happened this afternoon (emphasis ours):
I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context.
When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That's not what happened.
You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn't attack Zelensky and wasn't even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument.
In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always "we'll see." Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders.
For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would've signed a deal.
The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere.
The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw.
Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument.
I've been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don't see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.
https://x.com/Heminator/status/1895618460652372330
https://x.com/ComicDaveSmith/status/1895615532097028577
Update (1628ET): As expected, today's Trump-Vance-Zelensky cage match that nuked that Ukraine deal
has erupted into an international firestorm.
A few select reactions...
Team World Police:
- Spanish PM Sanchez says "Ukraine, Spain stands with you."
- French Foreign Minister Barrot says Putin's Russia is the aggressor, there is one necessity: Europe, now the time for words is over, time for action.
- German Chancellor Scholz says Ukraine can rely on Germany and Europe.
- EU's von der Leyen says "be strong, be brave, be fearless, you are never alone, Dear President Zelensky"
- Lithuanian President says Ukraine will never be alone.
- Portuguese PM says Ukraine can count on us to support it
- Czech Republic President says "We stand with Ukraine more than ever. Time for Europe to step up its efforts."
- EU foreign policy chief Kallas says "Today, it became clear that the free world needs a new leader. It’s up to US, Europeans, to take this challenge."
- Polish PM Tusk posts on X, "Dear Zelensky, dear Ukrainian friends, you are not alone".
- French President Macron says Russia is the aggressor, and Ukraine is the aggressed people. We were all right to help Ukraine and sanction Russia 3 years ago, and to continue to do so.
- Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) said "Trump and Vance are doing Putin’s dirty work."
The Atlantic's David Frum was mega-triggered,
writing: "Trump and Vance have revealed to Americans and to America’s allies their alignment with Russia, and their animosity toward Ukraine in general and its president in particular. The truth is ugly, but it’s necessary to face it."
On the other hand:
- Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Medvedev posts on X 'The insolent pig finally got a proper slap down in the Oval Office. And Trump is right: The Kiev regime is "gambling with WWIII," adding "For the first time, Trump told the truth to the cocaine clown’s face."
- Hungarian President Vicktor Orbán thanks Trump for standing 'for peace.'
But perhaps the biggest indicator that Zelensky is ****ed came from deep state tentacle Lindsey Graham, who walked out of the White House and said "I have never been more proud of the president. I was very proud of JD Vance standing up for our country.
Graham then
slammed Zelensky, saying "The way he handled the meeting, the way he confronted the president was just over the top," adding "
What I saw in the Oval Office was disrespectful. And I don't know if we can ever do business with Zelensky again."
Watch (via Collin Rugg):
https://twitter.com/i/status/1895574080302338148
Update (1530ET): Moments after Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky left the White House following an explosive argument in front of the press (scroll down), and President Donald Trump shredded any chance of a Ukraine deal to end the war (anytime soon), two things happened.
1) White House staffers literally ate Zelensky's lunch...
https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1895557490689130626
2) Secretary of State Marco Rubio terminated US support for restoring Ukraine's energy grid, which was funded by a USAID initiative that had invested hundreds of millions of dollars, NBC reportsThe State Department this week terminated a U.S. Agency for International Development initiative that has invested hundreds of millions of dollars to help restore Ukraine's energy grid from attacks by the Russian military, according to two USAID officials working on the agency’s Ukraine mission.
...
Based on a document obtained by NBC News, the State Department has also ordered the termination of a program focused on “financial sector reform activity.”
“We won’t have the eyes on where this money has gone over the last few years,” one of the officials said.
How much popcorn can one consume on a Friday?
Update (1420ET): President Trump has effectively shredded any deal with Ukraine for the time being, writing on Truth Social following a testy exchange (see full clips below) with Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelsnsky:"We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It’s amazing what comes out through emotion, and I have determined that President Zelenskyy is not ready for Peace if America is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don’t want advantage, I want PEACE. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for Peace.”
Trump also canceled a scheduled press conference with Zelensky that was set for later in the day.
https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1895548977162125734
Meanwhile, several GOP lawmakers and members of the Trump administration have voiced their support for Trump and Vance following the exchange.
"America FIRST. Strong, unapologetic leadership on the world stage is BACK!" said Rep. Randy Weber (R-TX) on X.
"Amen, Mr. President," said Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth in response to Trump's statement above.
"Thank you, President Trump, for standing up for the American people and our nation on the global stage," said Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent.
"It is amazing to have a President and VP who put America First! Thank you President Trump and VP Vance for fighting for our country and our people!" said Rep. Riley Moore (R-WV) on X.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1895537389436833967
See the exchanges below...
* * *
Just days after calling him a 'dictator without elections,' President Donald Trump met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky at the White House on Friday, where the two discussed US efforts to end the war in Ukraine and the related minerals deal -- and then got into a giant argument that included VP Vance dropping serious shade to Zelensky's face (see below)
As for the minerals deal to end the Ukraine war, Trump said there's a 'very fair deal' on the table, which would allow the US to use Ukraine's rare earths for AI and military applications, adding that once the minerals deal is done, the war will be over, and "Russia won't want to return.
Trump said they've "made a deal."
Then Things Got Tense
Trump then slammed Zelensky for 'gambling with world war three," adding "You either make a deal or we are out..."
"I gave you the Javelins to take out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets... You got to be more thankful because let me tell you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards — but without us you don't have any cards."
https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status...28201713283105
Vice President JD Vance chimed in, asking "Have you said thank you once? You went to Pennsylvania to campaign on the opposition."
https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status...27936939487722
https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status...31744146944461
Zelensky, apparently not a historian, said that Putin 'began the war' and 'has to pay,' while Trump says he's "in the middle" regarding the war, adding "I'm for both Ukraine and Russia." Trump also added that he's committed to NATO.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1895521908495696096
https://x.com/AutismCapital/status/1895536919699997164
Trump also commented several times on Zelensky's attire...
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1895514356374520011
https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status...21402880696498
Wut...
https://x.com/RightGlockMom/status/1895518869978227080
The day before the meeting, Trump softened his tone on the 'dictator' comment, saying that he now has a "lot of respect" for the Ukrainian leader (who's canceled elections, banned the Orthodox Church, and outlawed non-USAID propaganda media).
Earlier, Zelensky said he met with a bipartisan US Senate delegation, which he described as "an important visit to the United States."
"We take pride in having strategic partners and friends like the United States. We are grateful for the unwavering bicameral and bipartisan support for Ukraine throughout all three years of Russia’s full-scale aggression," he said on X.
https://x.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1895510194550943828
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I've been following this whole thing daily, ever since my birthday (Feb 23!) in 2022. I've read every forum post and watched almost every video, read almost every article. I could write a book on the whole protracted geopolitical drama myself.
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