Muslims, Jews, And The West's Self Hatred

[Mike]

Excellent video here. Peter Boghossian sits down with the brilliant Benedict Beckeld (how's that for alliteration ) to discuss the Islamization of Europe and the west's willingness to kind of apathetically let it all happen.

This is my first exposure to Beckeld, who is a writer and philosopher (PhD in Philosophy and Classical Philiology from the University of Heidlelburg, Germany). He's lived everywhere and speaks like a million different languages. He's one of the most impressive guys I've listened to in a while. This video alone I've already listened to 3 times.

He introduced an entirely new concept to me called "oikophobia". This is how wiki describes oikophobia:
Oikophobia is the dislike or hatred of one's own home, culture, or civilization. It's essentially the opposite of xenophobia (fear or hatred of foreigners). The term, coined by philosopher Roger Scruton, describes a tendency to denigrate one's own culture while potentially idealizing or praising others, often seen in Western societies.

Utterly crucial information here for everyone. If the west falls, the world falls. It's the most immediately important topic atm, in my view. As mainstream intellectuals they avoid the elephant in the room (Globalists) but in every other way it's dead on accurate.

Chapters
0:00 Teaser
0:59 Islamization of Europe
2:40 Islamism vs Islam
8:40 Comparison of Islam, Judaism, Christianity
17:05 Why should Americans care about Islam in Europe?
24:00 Why should Europeans care about Islam in Europe?
33:30 Oikophobia
44:15 Fighting Oikophobia
52:05 Controlling immigration
1:00:10 Zohran Mamdani
1:04:00 Speculating why the West imports Muslim immigrants
1:13:48 Getting people who disagree on the show
1:17:30 Oikophobia outside the West
1:19:50 Benedict’s questions for Peter

1 hr and 30 mins

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CJy6LWm4l34

[shaberon]

Posted by Mike (here)
If the west falls, the world falls.

What is that supposed to mean?

[Open Minded Dude]

Posted by Mike (here)
from the University of Heidlelburg, Germany

It's funny to always witness how so many non-Germans struggle with the spelling of German words and proper names. I guess you meant Heidelberg University?

https://www.uni-heidelberg.de/en/university
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg

[Mike]

Posted by Open Minded Dude (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
from the University of Heidlelburg, Germany

It's funny to always witness how so many non-Germans struggle with the spelling of German words and proper names. I guess you meant Heidelberg University?

https://www.uni-heidelberg.de/en/university
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg

No i just took it off Wiki, I can't be blamed!

[Mike]

Posted by shaberon (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
If the west falls, the world falls.

What is that supposed to mean?

Means this:

At the moment the Muslims and woke Marxists have teamed up to destroy the west. They've done this thru mass illegal and unchecked legal immigration and also thru infecting our institutions with highly corrosive anti-western ideologies.

If they are successful, either the woke Marxists will eventually cannibalize the Muslims or the Muslims will eventually cannibalize the woke Marxists. Or maybe some horrifying hybrid will result.

Either way it will be very very bad.

[Gemma13]

Thanks for the link Mike. A highly informative discussion on multiple levels with vital takeaways to help understand why, and how, we're responsible for chaos that is not in line with our true intentions for reform. My thoughts:

Oikophobia - (great word) - needs to be recognised, contemplated, and done away with if we truly want local and global cohesion.

The advent of the internet failed to include a download that magically transformed us all into advanced historians overnight. Heck, a disclaimer might’ve helped: Be warned.The Wild Wild West got nothin' on the Wild Wild East.

As a result we've had decades of privilege ferreting out Western conspiracies, searching for the head of a global Hydra to decapitate, while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West is vastly different to the East. That unity we like to imagine all minds around the globe are gleefully marching toward, couldn't be further from the truth.

Asleep at the wheel, bitching and moaning and slagging off about our own institutions - albeit warranted for our own internal evolutions - the stark and dangerous reality of a (religious) political ideology with a very clear agenda to dismantle Western liberties, has landed. Ethnocentrism is death by a thousand cuts.

Happening right now. In real time. At breakneck speed. Wouldn't surprise me if the Hydra are starting to feel a little sphincter squeeze, now that the wolves in sheep's clothing are boldly baring their teeth.

If we value the freedoms we've worked damn hard to manifest, we need to stop romanticising tribalism while chanting airy-fairy kumbaya. Over 50% of pleasant, charming Muslim people in Western countries agree the brutality on Oct 7 is a reasonable way to negotiate politics. Not a typo.

We need to comprehend this. For when push comes to shove, and it will if we don't sober up, that percentage will significantly rise because of family and community pressures.

"The seeds of the demise of the West are sown within the West." So, how do we course correct?

Options are discussed @44.00: have more babies; heroically examine our own history; curb immigration; Europe to disenfranchise equally, not just natives. Fun fact: police officers (custodians of the state) in Amsterdam, of muslim faith, are reassigned to other buildings because they refuse to guard Jewish monuments. This is parallel states within states, in action. Anyone else see where this might be heading?

Religion is another option. Atheists and pagans need to understand that religion is a bedrock in civilization. It ain't going anywhere and without it... "we get pregnant men."

In our neck of the woods, championing cultural Christianity vs Islamism, would serve us well. Perhaps it's time Christians took time out to pray in workplace prayer sessions.

[Italics are quotes from the podcast.]

[Mike]

Posted by Gemma13 (here)
Thanks for the link Mike. A highly informative discussion on multiple levels with vital takeaways to help understand why, and how, we're responsible for chaos that is not in line with our true intentions for reform. My thoughts:

Oikophobia - (great word) - needs to be recognised, contemplated, and done away with if we truly want local and global cohesion.

The advent of the internet failed to include a download that magically transformed us all into advanced historians overnight. Heck, a disclaimer might’ve helped: Be warned.The Wild Wild West got nothin' on the Wild Wild East.

As a result we've had decades of privilege ferreting out Western conspiracies, searching for the head of a global Hydra to decapitate, while conveniently ignoring the fact that the West is vastly different to the East. That unity we like to imagine all minds around the globe are gleefully marching toward, couldn't be further from the truth.

Asleep at the wheel, bitching and moaning and slagging off about our own institutions - albeit warranted for our own internal evolutions - the stark and dangerous reality of a (religious) political ideology with a very clear agenda to dismantle Western liberties, has landed. Ethnocentrism is death by a thousand cuts.

Happening right now. In real time. At breakneck speed. Wouldn't surprise me if the Hydra are starting to feel a little sphincter squeeze, now that the wolves in sheep's clothing are boldly baring their teeth.

If we value the freedoms we've worked damn hard to manifest, we need to stop romanticising tribalism while chanting airy-fairy kumbaya. Over 50% of pleasant, charming Muslim people in Western countries agree the brutality on Oct 7 is a reasonable way to negotiate politics. Not a typo.

We need to comprehend this. For when push comes to shove, and it will if we don't sober up, that percentage will significantly rise because of family and community pressures.

"The seeds of the demise of the West are sown within the West." So, how do we course correct?

Options are discussed @44.00: have more babies; heroically examine our own history; curb immigration; Europe to disenfranchise equally, not just natives. Fun fact: police officers (custodians of the state) in Amsterdam, of muslim faith, are reassigned to other buildings because they refuse to guard Jewish monuments. This is parallel states within states, in action. Anyone else see where this might be heading?

Religion is another option. Atheists and pagans need to understand that religion is a bedrock in civilization. It ain't going anywhere and without it... "we get pregnant men."

In our neck of the woods, championing cultural Christianity vs Islamism, would serve us well. Perhaps it's time Christians took time out to pray in workplace prayer sessions.

[Italics are quotes from the podcast.]

[rgray222]

Posted by Gemma13 (here)
Thanks for the link Mike. A highly informative discussion on multiple levels with vital takeaways to help understand why, and how, we're responsible for chaos that is not in line with our true intentions for reform.
Religion is another option. Atheists and pagans need to understand that religion is a bedrock in civilization. It ain't going anywhere and without it... "we get pregnant men."

In our neck of the woods, championing cultural Christianity vs Islamism, would serve us well. Perhaps it's time Christians took time out to pray in workplace prayer sessions.

[Italics are quotes from the podcast.]

What a great post! There wasn't a single word in your post that I disagreed with.

I have spent a considerable amount of time in the Middle East. Many times, I have been in offices when the employees would tell me that I had to come out and stand on the sidewalk facing Mecca while they prayed on their prayer mats. I would always refuse, and this would cause a great deal of dread and anxiety amongst the staff. They would always pull the blinds down, put me in a back room with access to a monitor and turn off the lights. They assured me that if the "religious police" came into the office, I would end up in jail, or the best case would be a hefty fine. Fortunately, that never happened. This is not extremist by any stretch of the imagination; it is mainstream in most Muslim countries.

Sharia law is not a legal and moral framework that I have any desire to live under. It embodies Islamic principles, and if you are Islamic, that is probably a good thing. I do not believe people in the West truly understand the severity, harshness and at times the absolute cruelty that goes along with this "lifestyle.". By the time that any Western country's population reaches about 8-10% Muslim, Sharia law is inevitable in pockets of society, and it will make efforts to expand out from there. No one complains until it affects their lives, and by the time that happens, it is generally too late.

[Mike]

Posted by rgray222 (here)

Posted by Gemma13 (here)
Thanks for the link Mike. A highly informative discussion on multiple levels with vital takeaways to help understand why, and how, we're responsible for chaos that is not in line with our true intentions for reform.
Religion is another option. Atheists and pagans need to understand that religion is a bedrock in civilization. It ain't going anywhere and without it... "we get pregnant men."

In our neck of the woods, championing cultural Christianity vs Islamism, would serve us well. Perhaps it's time Christians took time out to pray in workplace prayer sessions.

[Italics are quotes from the podcast.]

What a great post! There wasn't a single word in your post that I disagreed with.

I have spent a considerable amount of time in the Middle East. Many times, I have been in offices when the employees would tell me that I had to come out and stand on the sidewalk facing Mecca while they prayed on their prayer mats. I would always refuse, and this would cause a great deal of dread and anxiety amongst the staff. They would always pull the blinds down, put me in a back room with access to a monitor and turn off the lights. They assured me that if the "religious police" came into the office, I would end up in jail, or the best case would be a hefty fine. Fortunately, that never happened. This is not extremist by any stretch of the imagination; it is mainstream in most Muslim countries.

Sharia law is not a legal and moral framework that I have any desire to live under. It embodies Islamic principles, and if you are Islamic, that is probably a good thing. I do not believe people in the West truly understand the severity, harshness and at times the absolute cruelty that goes along with this "lifestyle.". By the time that any Western country's population reaches about 8-10% Muslim, Sharia law is inevitable in pockets of society, and it will make efforts to expand out from there. No one complains until it affects their lives, and by the time that happens, it is generally too late.

That's fascinating Richard. Without prying too much, I'd love to hear whatever else you're willing to share about your experience there.

Beckeld begins the interview by outlining 3 reasons why Muslims cannot coexist (at scale) in the same space as westerners (or anyone who isn't Muslim). It was a useful way to begin because it gives the listener a kind of lattice or structure to overlay the rest of the info on.

1)
- Jews are political but not proselytizing
- Christians are not political but are proselytizing
- Muslims are both political and proselytizing

In other words, Muslims are imperialistic by nature. There is no difference between religious Islam and political Islam. Which means once they take over a space, it will not just culturally change but institutionally change as well. So what that means for you if you're in the same space is that you're going to be a Muslim too, one way or another. It's just a matter of time. Which is the entire history of the middle east since the inception of Islam, really.

2) They're tribal. They are encouraged to be intolerant from birth. They will never assimilate. They will create states within states, until they take over the whole state.

3) Islam has no authoritative exegesis. In other words, there's no authoritative structure. There are plenty of exegetes, but no real authority. Which means a crazy radical preacher can lay just much claim as a moderate preacher. They cannot point to one interpretation. They can't agree. Historically these debates were settled with the sword, which means they weren't settled at all because once someone comes around with a bigger sword it'll all have to be settled again. And it's still being settled today, except it's traveled to western countries as well.

Jews on the other hand more or less agree on the interpretation of most passages in the Hebrew Bible. They rely on rabbinic authority. Ditto Christians, only with the Pope and bishops etc.

[Matthew]

Posted by Mike (here)
...
Beckeld begins the interview by outlining 3 reasons why Muslims cannot coexist (at scale) in the same space as westerners (or anyone who isn't Muslim). ...

... Which means once they take over a space, it will not just culturally change but institutionally change as well. So what that means for you if you're in the same space is that you're going to be a Muslim too, one way or another. It's just a matter of time. Which is the entire history of the middle east since the inception of Islam, really.
...

People don't want this truth. They want to pretend Islam is more or less like Christianity. They're in for a shock.

"The real Islam" takes offence at Muslim back-sliders, like this lady in the video below, and people who don't follow the religion properly get intimidation or worse. She talks about this.

I posted this video in Turmoil in the British Isles thread where I've been talking about Islam and the UK. I think a few didn't bother to read it because, well, I dunno: the truth is frightening or they just don't want to believe it. Don't say I didn't try to warn you.

TRUTH

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3HssQzoq6yU

Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

[Gemma13]

Posted by Matthew (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
...
Beckeld begins the interview by outlining 3 reasons why Muslims cannot coexist (at scale) in the same space as westerners (or anyone who isn't Muslim). ...

... Which means once they take over a space, it will not just culturally change but institutionally change as well. So what that means for you if you're in the same space is that you're going to be a Muslim too, one way or another. It's just a matter of time. Which is the entire history of the middle east since the inception of Islam, really.
...

People don't want this truth. They want to pretend Islam is more or less like Christianity. They're in for a shock.

"The real Islam" takes offence at Muslim back-sliders, like this lady in the video below, and people who don't follow the religion properly get intimidation or worse. She talks about this.

I posted this video in Turmoil in the British Isles thread where I've been talking about Islam and the UK. I think a few didn't bother to read it because, well, I dunno: the truth is frightening or they just don't want to believe it. Don't say I didn't try to warn you.

TRUTH

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3HssQzoq6yU

Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Beat me to your cross link Thanks Matthew.

[shaberon]

Posted by Mike (here)
Muslims and woke Marxists have teamed up to destroy the west.

Before reckoning with the array of these forces, I meant what is the west?

[Mike]

Posted by shaberon (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
Muslims and woke Marxists have teamed up to destroy the west.

Before reckoning with the array of these forces, I meant what is the west?

everything that's not the east

[rgray222]

Posted by Mike (here)
That's fascinating Richard. Without prying too much, I'd love to hear whatever else you're willing to share about your experience there.

Not sure what I can add of value, but here are two quick stories that happened while I was in Saudi Arabia that would never happen outside of an Islamic country.

On my first trip to Saudi we were going to visit the American Ambassador and a few of his minions. One of the secretaries called us and asked if we would be kind enough to bring some posters that they could put around their cafeteria/lunchroom. Something that would brighten the place up, "colorful and fun" was how she described what she wanted. One of my colleagues picked up about 10 posters and put them in a hard cardboard tube, and checked them as luggage. I never looked at the posters; I just assumed he had gotten something that would fit the request. When we arrived, the Saudi customs agent opened up our luggage, including the posters, and there was a very long silence, way too long. Then the agent called all his fellow customs agents over, and within seconds, voices were raised, hands were flailing in the air, and there was a tremendous excitement. If speed yelling had been an Olympic sport, these guys would have come home with a bucket full of gold medals. You would have thought that we were smuggling in a suitcase nuke by all the commotion. What had happened is that the posters were mostly American-themed, Rocky Mountains, Boston Skyline, showing historical sites and the NYC skyline, etc. One of the posters showed a beach scene; the people on the beach were only about 1-2 inches in size. Some of the people in the beach scene were women in bikinis. For this, we were thrown in the slammer. We were told that we were being arrested and would be sent to Riyadh to the central lockup. That is the moment that I invoked the name of the Ambassador in an effort to cause an international incident. So to make a very long story short..................telling these agents that we were doing a personal favor for the American Ambassador worked. He was forced to come to the airport (3 hours later) to personally bail our buts out of jail, he had to vouch for our integrity and take personal responsibility for our behaviour for the entire time we were in the country.

The second story is a bit darker. I had met a young Saudi guy who worked at the Embassy. He was assigned to us to help get some things done and to be our driver for the time we were in Riyadh. He was telling me that the guys at the Embassy would give him a bottle of whiskey whenever he asked. They were not supposed to do it, be they liked him, and everyone looked the other way. All the alcohol was smuggled in using diplomatic pouches; they had a full bar in the basement of the Embassy. This young Saudi guy took a bottle of whiskey home and drank it over the course of a few weeks. To dispose of the bottle, he would soak the label off, dry it out and burn it. The next step was to put the glass bottle in a bag and take a hammer to it, breaking it into a thousand pieces, and slip it inconspicuously into the trash. Somehow, one of the extremely thin glass shards shot out of the bag and struck him in his eye. He was too afraid to go to the doctor and too afraid to call the American Embassy for help, so he suffered like this for a full week before it somehow came out on its own.

I remember thinking that if this is the absolute definition of living in madness

People can understand very easily the political divide happening in the West because we live it and see it every day, but they need to view Islam as a political and religious ideology (which it is), where the extremists are absolutely willing to die to spread the word. Many people in these Muslim countries who are not extremists and who are considered moderate are cheering on the extremists. People in the West need to get educated.

[Squareinthecircle]

Muslims are a sword the jews are using against the west. Sure, we can focus on the effect, but paying attention to the cause might bring better results. Muslims are not in a position to distribute themselves over Europe and the west- that is being done by jewish globalist bankers and such. Any focus on Muslims IMO is meant to distract.

[rgray222]

Posted by Squareinthecircle (here)
Muslims are a sword the jews are using against the west. Sure, we can focus on the effect, but paying attention to the cause might bring better results. Muslims are not in a position to distribute themselves over Europe and the west- that is being done by jewish globalist bankers and such. Any focus on Muslims IMO is meant to distract.

I have to disagree with your comment. I am no fan of what is happening in Gaza, but giving Islam a pass as a means of getting at the Israeli's is a mistake so proportionately wrong, it seems like a bizarre comment (to me). In some Middle Eastern and North African countries, there is widespread support for making Sharia the law of the land, while in regions like Central Asia, Southern Europe, North America, particularly Canada, it is almost as strong, but it's politically correct to keep that support under the table. I do get it that the Muslim migration is caused by war and conflict, but there are many other reasons for it, such as political instability, economic opportunities and much more.

Some of the richest countries in the world, with plenty of land, are in the Middle East, and while they stand in solidarity with Palestinians, not one country has offered refugee status to any Palestinian, not even Iran. The food and humanitarian aid they are offering is meagre. These facts should really be a red flag to anyone who is paying attention.

I lived in Sweden for two years, and the majority of Muslims who migrated there made no effort to assimilate into society. Now the country is facing some severe challenges that have been brought on entirely by immigration.

[Squareinthecircle]

Posted by rgray222 (here)

Posted by Squareinthecircle (here)
Muslims are a sword the jews are using against the west. Sure, we can focus on the effect, but paying attention to the cause might bring better results. Muslims are not in a position to distribute themselves over Europe and the west- that is being done by jewish globalist bankers and such. Any focus on Muslims IMO is meant to distract.

I have to disagree with your comment. I am no fan of what is happening in Gaza, but giving Islam a pass as a means of getting at the Israeli's is a mistake so proportionately wrong, it seems like a bizarre comment (to me). In some Middle Eastern and North African countries, there is widespread support for making Sharia the law of the land, while in regions like Central Asia, Southern Europe, North America, particularly Canada, it is almost as strong, but it's politically correct to keep that support under the table. I do get it that the Muslim migration is caused by war and conflict, but there are many other reasons for it, such as political instability, economic opportunities and much more.

Some of the richest countries in the world, with plenty of land, are in the Middle East, and while they stand in solidarity with Palestinians, not one country has offered refugee status to any Palestinian, not even Iran. The food and humanitarian aid they are offering is meagre. These facts should really be a red flag to anyone who is paying attention.

I lived in Sweden for two years, and the majority of Muslims who migrated there made no effort to assimilate into society. Now the country is facing some severe challenges that have been brought on entirely by immigration.

Respectfuly we are not the world's police. Let The ME and North Africa fight their own battles- we have enough in the way of issues at home. The support from the west comes from the top down- it is institutionalized, which is why it's ubiquituos and unchallenged officially. The migration comes from wars started by the same globalists, a cause and effect scenario. As Ronald Bernard is quoted as saying "All misery on earth is a business model."

The lack of support for the Palestinians has as much to do with fear of reprisal from the israelis and the US than anything. Complexity abounds.

I agree that muslims should not be in the west, that's not where we part ways. I know that your country allowed in many they should not have. This approach of focusing on the muslims though is the same as the gun control crowd- we're speaking in both cases of weapons being wielded, and the attention should be paid to the one doing the weilding.

[shaberon]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by shaberon (here)
I meant what is the west?

everything that's not the east

Is that your thesis?

Somehow I missed it.

I think that might be a new thread. This one is a bit our existential rant about Islam. Most of what has come up so far is in too broad terms which tend to cover up glaring issues.

One well-known phrase of derogation is self-hating Jew. Been used for ages if you weren't so keen on taking Zion. The posts are sort of like that, words could be changed between sentences and it would be another known point of view. Kind of shifty.

To respond would take going from the first few sentences where it insinuates something about culture; America isn't a culture, America whitewashes culture. Swedish is a culture, perhaps a soon-to-be-historical one, but until then it means a similar language and diet. Those are the two main factors and of course many places have more in common with itself. I would have to go through a lot of these points on this page.

The majority of things I would deal with are primarily having to do with the west rather than the Caliphate, or Islamicization. For those who follow those other Prophets, why not the Final?