Sins before God - meditation and yoga, various spiritual practices and astral projection

[Russian Bear]

Orthodoxy! Spiritual questions and answers, stories, testimonies, discussions
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1686842

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UL0H3b1hcTM

“The call of Christ is still coming to us; let’s start listening to him.” These words of Father Seraphim (Rose) - ascetic, theologian, preacher - could not be more relevant today. His books helped to hear this call. Written in the 1970s and 1980s for his contemporaries who were lost in the intellectual wilderness, his works are perhaps even more relevant today, because today’s “intellectuals” wander through much more dangerous deserts of spiritual death.

I answer from the position of an Orthodox Christian

The Orthodox Church and Yoga
Yoga as a system of exercises (physical and psychological) has existed for over 1,000 years. It is a branch of Buddhism and aims to attract new adherents to this religion. The Orthodox Church has a strictly negative attitude toward this practice. Although some perceive this practice solely as a system of exercises, it cannot be separated from its psychological aspects.

The Church's Attitude to Yoga
Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, commenting on yoga, confirmed that Orthodox believers should refrain from such practices and instead engage in other sports that lack psychological connotations. He clarified that the practice is pagan, and even simply performing exercises can open the door to the spiritual world, which can have an extremely negative impact on a Christian.

Important! Any contact with pagan practices leads to an imbalance in the spiritual life of a Christian and can have negative consequences. The Orthodox Church holds the opinion that such Eastern practices lead Christians into serious error. Sooner or later, someone practicing yoga will become interested in the psychological exercises, particularly meditation, that it offers. And from there, it will be difficult to leave.

Why Orthodox Christians should not practice yoga
An Orthodox Christian should not engage in this practice for the following reasons: yoga is part of a religious doctrine that is categorically opposed to Christianity;
it lacks God, no desire to know Him, no awareness of one's sinful nature;
yoga does not imply repentance or contrition for one's actions;
it is a selfish practice of self-knowledge without knowledge of God, and this is categorically at odds with Christian principles.
Regular practice and meditation—all this leads a person to turn away from God and increasingly toward their own selfish nature. They fall into various delusions and lose the ability to distinguish between good and evil, which ultimately leads to a serious spiritual decline. No one can guarantee whether a person will be able to return to the true path after this decline.

Advice! To avoid such problems, it's best to refrain from such sports, especially since there are a huge variety of physical activities without any spiritual connotations.

Should a Christian practice yoga?

Response from the priesthood
As mentioned above, Patriarch Kirill spoke clearly about Eastern practices and noted that Orthodox believers should not engage in such things for their own benefit. However, he noted that, in general, he has an extremely positive attitude toward any form of sport.

The spiritual life of an Orthodox Christian:
Sports should be aimed at improving our physical body and not affecting the spiritual essence, while yoga works in a different direction—engaging the body in order to affect the soul. Yoga's physical exercises are excellent; they develop endurance and flexibility, but its psychological techniques can destroy a person's spiritual world, their essence, and their cultural identity.

Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) wrote an entire book on yoga, explaining the destructive effects of this Eastern practice and listing reasons why Orthodox Christians should avoid it. His opinion is especially important for Orthodox Christians, as he himself previously practiced yoga and knows the entire system from the inside. In the book, he provides historical background, the development of this meditative practice, and examines its roots in Buddhism.

Seraphim states that the spread of yoga on the American continent led to the emergence of numerous pagan cults. In particular, the hippie movement relies heavily on inner self-knowledge, meditation, and the energy of light. The hieromonk notes the detrimental influence of the Eastern system of exercises on a person's spiritual life and their gradual alienation from God, ultimately leading to complete renunciation.

Archbishop Anastasios of Albania also wrote an article of the same name, in which he outlined his position on yoga. He states that these exercises have a short-term positive effect on people, similar to any other sport.

Yoga is an integral part of Hinduism and the initial stage of overall spiritual ascent. Its goal is not simply good physical condition, but complete immersion in the original pagan Hindu beliefs.

And Orthodox religious scholar Mikhail Plotnikov, who also spent many years studying Hinduism and Buddhism in India, says in an interview that "yoga was originally a practice of Hindu monks, which helps them renounce evil desires, then natural human desires (the desire for a family, wealth, health), and finally all desires."

First, a person must gain complete control over their body, then over their psychological body, which is achieved through meditation. After numerous trance sessions, the light of their own divinity should enter their mind.

Through meditation, a person releases spiritual entities (demons) into their body. These entities can grant them various abilities, but at the same time completely remove them from salvation and the true God.

Important! Yoga is not just a harmless, interesting physical exercise. It is the beginning of a serious pagan religion that will sooner or later capture a person's mind if they don't turn away from it in time.
In the modern world, there are so many opportunities that finding alternative sports activities won't be difficult at all.

‼️⚡‼️⚡‼️⚡On Meditation. Seraphim Rose
Father Seraphim Rose viewed meditation (especially in its Eastern and occult forms) as a dangerous spiritual practice, leading to delusion (spiritual self-deception) and separating one from true Christian asceticism. Here are the key ideas from his works:
✨ **Meditation or Christian Prayer**
- Meditation (in Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age) aims to "empty the mind" or "merge with the cosmos," which opens the soul to demonic influences.
- Orthodox prayer (especially the Jesus Prayer) is communion with the Personal God, requiring humility, repentance, and grace.
"Meditation is a path to nowhere, prayer is a path to God." "The first makes a person an 'empty vessel,' the second fills him with the light of Christ" ("Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future").
⚡ **The Occult Roots of Meditation**
In the books "The Soul After Death" and "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future," he emphasizes:
- Meditation techniques (trance, visualization, mantra repetition) are occultism in disguise, even if they are presented as "neutral" or "scientific."
- They originate from pagan cults and open the door to demonic influences (see examples of "enlightened" gurus going mad).
"What are called 'altered states of consciousness' are often possession... A Christian must flee from this."
⚠️ **The Danger of "Christian Meditation"**
- Criticizes Western movements that mix meditation with prayer (for example, Catholic Zen monks). - Even if meditation is used for "reflecting on the Bible," it remains self-hypnosis, not an encounter with God.
"The Holy Fathers teach sobriety, not immersion in imaginary 'spiritual worlds'" ("Man Against God").
☦️ **Alternative: Orthodox sobriety**
Instead of meditation, Father Seraphim suggests:
- The Jesus Prayer ("Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me") - it purifies the mind, not dissolves it.
- Reading the Holy Fathers (especially the "Philokalia") - teaches one to discern spirits.
- The sacraments of the Church (confession, communion) - provide true transformation of the soul.
"Demons can give false 'peace' and 'light' in meditation, but only Christ gives true peace to the soul."
📖 **Quotes from the works of Father Seraphim Rose**
💭 **On the nature of meditation**
"Meditation is nothing more than an ancient occult method disguised in modern psychological terminology... It opens the door to demonic influences, even though it appears 'safe'."
("Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future," Chapter 5)
"The emptiness sought in meditation is not holiness, but spiritual death. A Christian is called to fill his mind with Christ, not empty it"
(Letter to a Spiritual Child, 1979)
🔥 **The Danger of Eastern Practices**
"Yoga, transcendental meditation, Zen—they all lead to the same thing: the loss of personality and submission to dark forces... Even if a person feels 'peace,' it may be a demonic world"
("The Soul After Death," Ch. 4)
"'Enlightenment' in meditation is often just a cover for demonic delusion. The Holy Fathers knew: demons can appear in the form of light to deceive the ascetic"*
*("Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future")
⛔ **Criticism of "Christian Meditation"**
"When Catholic monks teach 'Christian meditation' with the repetition of a single word (as in mantras), they confuse Christ with Buddha... This is a betrayal of true prayer"
("Nihilism," notes)
"Meditation on the 'image of Christ' in the imagination is a dangerous game. The real Christ comes through humility and repentance, not through visualization"
(Letter, 1976)
🙌 **The Alternative: Sobriety and Prayer**
"The Jesus Prayer is the true 'purification of the mind.'" It does not empty the soul, but fills it with the name of Christ"
("The Soul After Death")
"The Holy Fathers teach: demons flee from repentance, but they love meditation, for there the soul is defenseless"
("Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future")
🔮 **Prophecy about the Future**
"The time will come when meditation will be taught in schools as the 'science of the soul.' But it will be the science of demonic delusion"
(From a conversation with students, 1980)
💡 **Important clarification**
Father Seraphim distinguishes:
🔹 Meditation (occult/Eastern) – he completely rejects
🔹 Reflection on God (according to the Holy Fathers) – he allows with spiritual guidance
✝️ **Conclusion**
For Father Seraphim, meditation is a spiritual drug, replacing God's grace with psychological effects. His position is based on the patristic teaching:
- "Not every spirit is from God" (1 John 4:1).
- "The devil sometimes comes in the form of an angel of light"* (St. John Climacus).
My dears, be vigilant, study Orthodoxy and the teachings of the Holy Fathers, and guard your souls for God.

To better understand this topic, it is important to read the books mentioned in this article written by Seraphim Rose. The article is written very concisely. It doesn't reveal the full depth of the dangers and problems, but merely warns of them and provides resources for further analysis. Those who seek the truth will find it.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=q6nVso1DJpc

What is the ancient Christian understanding of today's UFO sightings? What is behind the Charismatic Movement? What phenomena are assaulting Christianity in our modern world? How can Christians avoid being caught up in the Apostasy?

ORTHODOXY AND THE RELIGION OF THE FUTURE examines in eight chapters these and similar questions facing Christians in the contemporary world. The religious phenomena of today are symptoms of a "new religious consciousness" that is preparing the world religion of the future. Phenomena such as Yoga, Zen, Tantra, Transcendental Meditation, Maharaj-ji, Hare Krishna, UFOs, the Charismatic Movement and Jonestown are presented in contrast to the Orthodox Patristic standard of spiritual life, without the understanding of which, in the coming time of antichrist, it will scarcely be possible for Christians to be saved.

This work is a concise and unequivocal Orthodox statement on contemporary trends; its urgent message rings loud and clear. Viewed from a foundation based in Patristic teachings, the spiritual movements of the day are clearly various spiritual deceptions that have existed since the beginning of the Church, rather than the achievements of a new religious consciousness. Addressing soberly and directly the trends of pseudo-spirituality which loom enticingly today, ORTHODOXY AND THE RELIGION OF THE FUTURE provides a beacon of discernment in these times of widespread spiritual deception. The book examines a broad spectrum of issues facing modern Christians--each from the perspective of the early Church Fathers. As the "New Age" is becoming a household concept and is moving into wider acceptance by mainstream society, the "new religious consciousness" can be seen progressing precisely along the lines described by the late Fr. Seraphim”

21) ⭐️⭐️⭐️☦☦☦✅(Orthodoxy, Prophecies, Apocalypse) Part 2, Russian angel. UFOs are demons (fallen angels). And now in detail about this.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1663986

No one flies to us from other planets, reptilians and UFOs are demons whose father is satan.

Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose)
Orthodoxy and the religion of the Future
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Serafim_R...of-the-future/

Read these important articles first:
1) https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1686852 (Post 5)
2) https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1686859 (Post 6)

[Russian Bear]

Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) on yoga

Eastern meditation is increasingly attacking Christians, which is understandably causing concern among clergy. Yes, a person can practice yoga by controlling their breathing and adopting certain postures to achieve bodily health and beauty. But even without realizing it, he thus prepares himself for certain spiritual views and experiences. Yogis believe that "The art of yoga consists in immersing oneself in complete silence, discarding all thoughts and illusions, rejecting and forgetting everything except one truth: the true essence of man is divine."; She is God, and you can only keep quiet about the rest."

Yes, these ideas are pagan, not Christian, but yoga techniques are increasingly being used for "Christian" meditation. The goal is to relax, to relax, to increase your receptivity to spiritual ideas and impressions. According to followers of yoga, exercises "fill with a sense of general well-being", give a "feeling of peace", well-being, euphoria and bliss. Orthodox yoga connoisseurs believe that the state of "full health" bestowed by it first allows them to do more on a human level, and only then on a Christian – spiritual level. The contentment that supposedly fills the body and soul disposes to a spiritual life. 

Many people also notice a beneficial effect on their character. For example, there was a man who was short-tempered and irritable, but after starting to practice yoga, he noticed that he had become more gentle and understanding. Events from the outside and inner experiences ceased to have their power over him. The personality itself is changing – it strengthens, opens up, leading to euphoria and complete satisfaction. All this is called preparation for the "spiritual" life, which does not take long to wait. As a person becomes more calm, he notices that his prayer is becoming more attentive. It seems to a person that he is becoming susceptible to "impulses and impulses from heaven."

This reveals the personal relationship between God and the soul that accompany the whole path of mystical life. The soul soars, prayer becomes "sweet", capturing the whole person, and now he is ready to tremble at the "touch of the Holy Spirit", to experience what the Lord deems worthy for him. This is considered one of the highest forms of "Christian contemplation" aimed at "the flow of the grace of Christ." A person feels a great hunger and thirst for righteousness, he strives with every fiber of his soul to become a Christian in the full sense of the word.
 
But anyone familiar with the nature of charm and spiritual delusion understands that such a "Christian yogi" has lost his way spiritually, sliding towards pagan religious experiences, or towards sectarian "Christian" experiences. There is the same desire for "holy and divine feelings," the same openness and desire to be "admired" by a certain spirit. People mistake self-intoxication for grace. His mystical revelations are nothing more than a pseudo-spiritual state characteristic of all those who are spiritually lost. Fantasizing about various Christian topics, such a person does not even suspect that he has fallen into the trap of demons waiting for such "contemplatives."

Their visions of the Mother of God and the Angels of Light are their own religious fantasies, creations of the heart and spirit, which are completely unprepared for the spiritual warfare and temptations of dark spirits. It is frightening that such "meditations" are practiced today in some Catholic monasteries and convents. If we turn to the "Philokalia" and compare the truths set forth in it with what is preached by the "Christian" If there is no yoga, then one can only see once again what a gap lies between these amateurs and adherents of true Orthodoxy. It is enough to give an example of a real "heart prayer", which in the Orthodox traditions is available only to a few, and even then after many years of ascetic warfare and the school of humility of a truly God-bearing elder, whereas for a yoga guru it is just a trick of pronouncing syllables in unison with the heartbeat.

Athos elders on yoga
The Athos elders identify 9 differences between Jesus prayer and meditation and the Indian type of yoga.:

Prayer expresses faith in God as an Omnipresent Creator, as a Father who cares about the salvation of his creation. Salvation cannot be accomplished "in oneself" and "through oneself," as the yogis claim. It takes place in God, and that is why we ask Him in prayer, "Have mercy on me."

The prayer of Orthodox Christians is not addressed to a faceless God. This is not some kind of "absolute nothing" at all. This is a very specific God–Man, Jesus Christ. Christians love their own They honor God and his commandments, and strive to put them into practice, fulfilling the Lord's main command: "If you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). Whoever performs them unites with the Holy Trinity.

Prayer itself humbles human pride, which abounds in the teachings of yogis. It is through intelligent, unceasing prayer that Orthodox Christians attain a blissful state of humility. When a person who prays says, "Have mercy on me," he realizes the full extent of his fall, the sinfulness of his nature, and considers himself inferior to every creature. It is simply impossible to pray with pride, and having it is insane.

Salvation is not an abstract concept. This is a very concrete union with the Tri-Hypostatic By God in the person of our Lord Jesus Christ. But this unity does not mean the oppression of one's own human personality. It persists in each of us.

By struggling with their sins and passions, Christians gain the opportunity to discern temptations, see and understand the seduction of diabolical forces. Recognizing the spirit of flattery, they can easily separate good from evil, understand where the Spirit of Christ is at work, and where the dark forces that disguise themselves as Angels of Light are.

By praying, turning to God for help, Christians receive it, freeing themselves from the destructive influence of passions. At the same time, this mortification of passions and the achievement of dispassion is always dynamic, it is a continuous process. It is a process of transformation, because in the "passionless passion" to love There is no way to save God. Christians strive to achieve holiness by freeing themselves from the disfigured state that Satan creates. This personal struggle is carried out by the grace of Christ, which ensures salvation.

The purpose of prayer is not to bring the mind to absolute nothingness. On the contrary, a Christian has a very specific task – to turn the mind into the heart and acquire the grace of God in the soul, so that from there it spreads throughout the body. The Lord said that "The kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21). The Church teaches that the body is not evil. The evil is the carnal mind, so you need to fight not with the body as such, but with your desire to please and serve it. It is unacceptable to fall into a state in which the desire to live disappears. Christians practice prayer because they want to live and be with God forever.

Christianity is alien to an indifferent attitude towards the outside world. Yogis give up everything in order to remain calm and serene, while Christians pray for everyone, for the whole world. We cannot save ourselves by ourselves. We do this all together and unite with Christ together. 
Christians do not emphasize a certain body position, they do not attach importance to psychotechnical methods. Yes, some of them help you focus, but if you want, you can enter into communion with God anywhere, at any time and in any state of body and soul. 

Archimandrite Sophrony (Sakharov) on yoga
Father Sophrony founded St. John the Baptist Monastery in Essex County, Great Britain. His life was very hard. He had spent many years in such poverty that even an ordinary tin can was a real wealth for him. His path to God was very tortuous and thorny, although everything started out more than well. The boy had a very devout nanny who took care of his Christian upbringing, took him to church, and talked about God. Even as a child, he prayed for 45 minutes, but in his youth he began to search. He perceived the gospel as a kind of psychologism, the commandment of love seemed too specific, mundane, and he wanted to achieve the eternal absolute.

At this stage, he became interested in Indian teachings for the sake of this very Super-personal Absolute. The young man began to look for something more than Christ, he meditated in the desire to achieve absolute Being, and then it seemed to him that he was putting off the visible and invisible, sensual and mental. Going into the darkness of ignorance, the young man experienced a certain peace and enjoyed this state. In an effort to achieve a transcendent Being, he imagined his mind as light, while simultaneously looking for ways to express in a painting the beauty that is characteristic of every natural phenomenon.

He would later call this period of inspiration "suicide in the metaphysical sense." The Lord Himself helped him out of this false position, extending his hand at the very last moment. Archimandrite Sophrony considers this a miracle of mercy, which he has neglected for so long. He suddenly realized with obvious clarity that his artificial immersion in the abstract intellectual sphere would not help him to know the First Beginning of all beginnings. He suddenly realized that love is the absolute being he was looking for, and Christ is the Divine Absolute That surpasses everything on earth.

He realized that his ascetic pursuits did not give any real unity with Existence, and mystical experiences had a negative connotation. He remembered how he prayed to the Immortal Heavenly Father as a child, and how the Person and Eternity were easily combined in that childish faith. His Eastern experience was rather intellectual, detached from the heart, and gradually he became more and more convinced that he was moving away from true real Existence into oblivion. The reason for this, he saw, was that he was following the delusion of the circles in which he moved. There it was customary to confuse the concept of a person with the concept of an individual, whereas philosophically they have diametrically opposite meanings.
Having found Christ again, Father Sophrony looked at his Eastern experience with different eyes, to which he devoted 8 long years. He took it as the most terrible crime before The God his soul had known since early childhood. Father Sophrony considers mixing the Jesus prayer with yoga, Buddhism, transcendental meditation, etc. to be the most unacceptable. Christianity is based on the revelation of a personal God: I Am, whereas all other paths lead a person towards the abstract transpersonal Absolute, into the realm of impersonal asceticism. Yes, by distracting the mind from all kinds of images, meditation can create a sense of peace, but it will never involve real face-to-face prayer, standing in front of By God.

As a result of such experiments, the perception of the Living disappears. God, and man as a person simply disappears. A gap is created between what really exists and the abstract contemplation of the human mind. As a result, the integrity of a person is stratified, and personality is destroyed. Father Sophrony sees the difference between Orthodoxy and Eastern teachings in that it requires strong faith and long-suffering, while spiritual gifts and contemplation of the Absolute God in Hinduism can be acquired in a short time. Those who draw a parallel between Jesus prayer and yoga or transcendental meditation are mistaken, and it is very dangerous.

Prayer is not at all a simple and "technical" means of connecting with God. Those who artificially connect with the Source of everything are mistaken, and they return to the nameless transpersonal Absolute, dissolving their individuality, their personality in the ocean of the super-intelligent. Ascetic "feats" of this kind allowed some to rise to a metalogical contemplation of existence, experience a kind of mystical awe, transcend time and space, discover the freedom of the spirit and contemplate intelligent beauty, but what did it really give them?

Having seen the divine principle in human nature, such people have achieved self-worship, unaware that this is the beginning of the fall. The vision of a certain "absoluteness" in oneself is nothing more than a reflection of God's Absoluteness in someone who is created in his image and likeness. Father Sophrony is sure that the True, Living, Existing There is no God in all this. This is only the natural genius of the human spirit in its sublimated aspirations for the Absolute. Everything he contemplates on this path is based on self-contemplation, not God-contemplation. All this is created beauty, not Primordial Existence. There is no salvation for man here.

[Russian Bear]

I couldn't find a real story in internet that actually happened, so I'll recount it from memory.

There was a monk in Tibet who was mastering the spiritual and physical practices of Buddhism, including meditation and the like...

Basically, he rose early, adhered to strict rules of a healthy lifestyle, and believed he had control over his spirit and body, and he succeeded. But one day, he decided to continue his spiritual quest, believing he hadn't reached the limit of his development and was seeking knowledge for self-improvement. That's how he stumbled upon the Orthodox faith, and it intrigued him. He began to study extensively and eventually converted to Orthodoxy. After that, his whole life turned into hell. He lost control of his soul and body. He retreated into the world and sins began to overwhelm his soul. After all this, he had a question: When I was a monk in Tibet, I was strong in spirit and controlled my passions, but when I became an Orthodox Christian, I lost peace and self-control. Why? He approached an Orthodox priest, a great ascetic and blessed with the grace of the Holy Spirit, and asked this question.

The holy, grace-filled elder answered him: "When you were engaged in spiritual, physical pagan practices (meditation, energy, yoga, Buddhist practices), you were in the religion of the devil, and the demons didn't touch you or fight against you, since you were theirs. But after you converted to Orthodoxy, you embarked on the true path of the Lord's teachings and became an enemy to the demons; you turned against them. Now they will torment you for the rest of your days. To take possession of your soul and drag your soul to the underworld in hell. To resist evil spirits, you must maintain churches, pray, fast, attend church sacraments regularly, and God's grace will give you the strength to resist the dark forces and overcome them." Thus, the former Tebet monk understood the true nature of the spiritual war and what had been happening all this time.




☦ On Ascetic Exercises in Hinduism (St. Paisios the Athonite)

What the Elder says in this chapter applies not only to Hinduism, but also to religious movements of the New Age in general that utilize yoga and meditation techniques.

— Geronda (Geronda means elder in Greek), do Hindus achieve a certain self-control because they are aided by the intense ascetic exercises they practice in yoga?

— They engage in all these exercises, but what do they ultimately achieve? Orthodox abstinence and spiritual asceticism in general always have in mind the highest spiritual goal—the sanctification of the soul. But the satanic worldly asceticism of those we are speaking of is performed so that the body becomes flexible, so that they can wiggle their arms and legs like a paper Karagioz [1], so that certain foolish people admire these "ascetics," and so that derisive demons laugh at them. Those who practice this type of Eastern asceticism begin stretching their legs from childhood, placing one leg over one shoulder, the other over the other, and, sitting in this position, pray. They develop calluses on their hands from long hours of pounding a sack of gravel with their fists, and can then break stones, boards, and the like.

But the sensations and experiences reported by followers of Eastern religions can be explained. For example, when they touch the tip of their nose with their tongue, or, conversely, draw it inward and touch the tip of their tongue to their throat, they feel a certain irritation, experience a sweet tingling sensation, and say, "We have drunk nectar [the drink of the gods]." Then these "ascetics" press their fingers on the nerves near their ears and begin to hear a humming sound: "Oooh-ooh-ooh..." Music! Or they press their fingers on their eyes, and stars begin to flicker before their eyes!

And sometimes they stare wide-eyed at the sun, then close their eyes and see light! "Look," they say, "we've achieved what we wanted. We've seen the uncreated light!" And then the devil says to them, "Ah, so you want light? Well, I'll give it to you." The devil inflames their imagination, and subsequently they see "light" without pressing their fingers on their eyes or looking at the sun. The devil often tries to deceive us [Orthodox monks] by showing us some kind of light or something similar. We don't ask him for it, we even turn our backs on it, but he still tries to deceive us! What can we say then if the person provokes the devil himself! After all, just give the devil a reason!

— Geronda, so the devil shows them various images?

"Yes, it inflames and sharpens their imagination to a high degree and then plunges them into delusion.

And some of our compatriots go to Indian teachers. The Indians teach them to speak in their language all sorts of blasphemous things about Christ, the Most Holy Theotokos, and the Saints. Some of them know it's blasphemy, others don't. And thus, these people become possessed. Then they begin to utter "unspeakable words." They reach a frenzy, a state of insanity, and people, seeing them, think they are in a spiritual state! But this state is demonic.

1) Karagioz is the protagonist of Greek folk shadow theater, a jester. — Translator's note.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Quite controversial take on one of the best excercise methods ever developed.

Heard it before from my own family. And the church.

In comparison, yoga brings immediate benefits and, unlike almost any other exercise discipline, leaves you invigorated and full of energy. 20 minutes of yoga is equivalent to an hour of weight lifting in terms of expended energy. Also, the assanas or poses can be used to target any area of the body or mind - unlike any other form of exercise.

There is the problem of truth. Yoga opens up the mind to truth. Immersed in the fringes of truth, Christianity, or any formal religion, becomes...quaint...at best.


But you wanted this response, so there you go.
Thanks

[Russian Bear]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
Quite controversial take on one of the best excercise methods ever developed.

Heard it before from my own family. And the church.

In comparison, yoga brings immediate benefits and, unlike almost any other exercise discipline, leaves you invigorated and full of energy. 20 minutes of yoga is equivalent to an hour of weight lifting in terms of expended energy. Also, the assanas or poses can be used to target any area of the body or mind - unlike any other form of exercise.

There is the problem of truth. Yoga opens up the mind to truth. Immersed in the fringes of truth, Christianity, or any formal religion, becomes...quaint...at best.


But you wanted this response, so there you go.
Thanks

Yoga is a spiritually dangerous practice. I think if yoga were simply a system of gymnastics, there would be nothing to discuss. Of course, different systems are possible, different technologies for maintaining one's body are possible. There is nothing sinful or bad in this. But, unfortunately, yoga is not simply gymnastics. The word yoga translates as "connection," or there is a complete Latin equivalent—the word "religion." It is a connection. The question is, "Who and with whom?" What is the purpose of yoga?

Of course, yoga is not simply a system of gymnastics; it is a philosophy, or, we might say, a religious philosophy. Why is it so conditional? Because yoga does not recognize the existence of God the Creator as a norm, with whom it communicates. However, this is a connection with the Spiritual World; yogis commit an act of idolatry, which is a gross violation of the second commandment: "Thou shalt not make for yourself any graven image, neither bow down to it, nor serve it." And thus we see that yoga actually leads to contact with dark spiritual forces (*** - read below).

As Holy Scripture says, "All the gods of the nations are demons, but the Lord created the heavens." Indeed, the beings encountered by yogis at high levels are demons. But demons exist even earlier; they are at the very beginning of human actions. It's no coincidence that many people who practice yoga later become patients in psychiatric clinics. This is no coincidence, because evil spirits destroy the personality.

Even more so, the goal of yoga is the destruction of the human personality as an ideal. This is certainly something unacceptable for a person. One cannot sacrifice one's personality for the sake of one's health.

When we speak of yoga, these are sins against the first and second commandments, they are a sin against the very Creator of the Universe.
And therefore, inevitably, a person who experiences false philosophy inevitably begins to disintegrate; anyone who distances themselves from God perishes. This is precisely the main problem with yoga. You see, you can have a perfectly healthy body, but you will still die, and after death you will have to give an account to God for why you broke His commandments, why you worshiped an idol instead of God, why you communicated with demons.
You can be perfectly healthy, harmoniously developed, but to go to hell for apostasy—that's truly terrifying.

Is it worth buying 10-20 years of health at such a price? What is the purpose of yoga? Name it, the purpose of yoga. Every action must have some ultimate goal, you see? Of course, both Hindu and Buddhist yoga are aimed at destroying the personality, destroying consciousness.

There are two types of yoga. Hindu yoga - then Moksha. Buddhist yoga - then Nirvana.

Moksha is a state of liberation. Liberation, in particular, from suffering and disease. Back discomfort. Only through the destruction of one's own personality and merging with the absolute. The best way to cure a headache is the guillotine. It's long been known. After that, your head definitely doesn't hurt.

Well, yoga is incompatible with Christianity—incompatible, incompatible in ideas.
Christianity demands a strengthening of the personality, yoga demands a weakening of the personality. Christianity demands a personal encounter with God, yoga doesn't presuppose this, Christianity forbids idolatry, yoga practices it, and yoga has given rise to many sects.

Christianity believes that humans are called not to sever their connection with creation in order to commune with the Spirit, but rather to be a connecting link between God and creation. However, humans cannot achieve godlikeness on their own, through their own strength, despite any ascetic endeavor. Salvation is possible only through the grace of God, who desires salvation for everyone, and of humans who have rejected the path of sin and serve God.

Yoga, in turn, proceeds from the principle that humans are capable of achieving unity with the Absolute on their own, through their own efforts, and through their own efforts alone. This fundamentally contradicts the Christian idea of ​​salvation by grace, salvation through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, yoga contains no commandment of humility (This is the foundation of the Christian world).

From a yogic perspective, pride is seen as a path to achieving the goals of practice. Pride can serve as motivation for "spiritual ascent." As one advances along the spiritual path, pride can be the "driver of progress" (one believes one can achieve everything on one's own, not relying on God's mercy, and that one achieves enlightenment by placing oneself above others, having been deceived by the devil).

Yes, perhaps it's worth answering, of course. The thing is, I said right away that physical exercise itself is not bad, the problem lies elsewhere.
The problem is that hatha yoga is simply cheese in a mousetrap, used to catch the soul. A person begins with physical exercise, and then they become involved in philosophy itself. That's the insidious thing, really. Not just in specific exercises, including physical therapy, but in sports, the Church has always permitted personal participation in sports, but it has always been against professional sports, because it destroys the soul with vanity. Moreover, professionals destroy their own bodies to the point of fanaticism; we know all too well how many sick people we have after the Olympic Games. (We need to have common sense. For example, athletes reach the point of fanaticism and start injecting themselves with various probiotics, antibiotics, and building muscle to be strong. Do you understand what I mean?) The Church has always believed that a person, especially in the city, should engage in physical exercise, all kinds of sports, so long as their soul is not corrupted by vanity, and most importantly, that they do not, under the guise of sport, fall into contact with the dark, satanic forces. A person can first come into some kind of contact with Satan with the help of some seemingly harmless things, and then he will simply be caught like a fish on a hook, and that’s it, and then he will be pulled somewhere else.

By the way, what do you mean by Christians? I don't recognize any Protestants, Baptists, or сatholics. If you call them Christians, then that's a completely different spiritual path that has nothing in common with Orthodoxy. For me, the true Christian path is the Orthodox faith. You should look into this. You should read the books of Seraphim Rose. He's an American, by the way, and every Orthodox Russian knows him. For us, he's one of our own in spirit.

I'd love to tell you more about Orthodoxy. But if you prefer to stick to your own philosophical views, I've taken that into account.


***Some yoga styles have practices associated with the worship of deities. For example, classical Indian schools of yoga use mantras, the text of which signifies worship and gratitude to a particular "deity."

Yoga also includes sequences of movements that are considered acts of worship, such as the "sun salutation" (surya namaskar in Sanskrit) and the "moon salutation" (chandra namaskar). In the classical form, these sequences are performed several times, with a mantra chanted after each series, praising the aforementioned entities.

So what we have:
Chanting mantras. The text of some of these signifies worship and gratitude to a particular "deity."

Sequences of movements. For example, the "sun salutation" (surya namaskar in Sanskrit) and the "moon salutation" (chandra namaskar). In the classical form, these sequences are performed several times, with a mantra recited after each series, praising specific entities.

Use of figurines and paintings. Images of "members" of the Indian pantheon may be included in the classes.

Musical accompaniment. This may include praise to Indian deities in Sanskrit.

[Russian Bear]

About yoga and other Eastern practices



In search of health, well-being in life, or even the development of secret abilities, many of our contemporaries pay attention to all kinds of oriental practices, especially yoga.

Yoga is advertised as a technique that will help prevent diseases, heal from already earned illnesses, even those that are difficult to treat, teach self-control, influence others, and also give an influx of vitality.

Most people are attracted to yoga by what they consider to be its external healing side – therapeutic poses, cold baths, cleansing enemas, special breathing techniques, and so on. The goal is to improve the functioning of internal organs and systems – digestion, potency, blood pressure, memory and other organs. The layman believes that one can ignore the worldview of yoga and at the same time recognize it as a unique system of physical and mental development. Modern yoga uses traditional Hindu gymnastics – hatha yoga, similar to the gymnastics of the Chinese and ancient Persians. There are also such trends as Raja yoga, mantra yoga, which are joined by "transcendental meditation", mystical Taoism, methods of Tibetan Buddhism, breathing techniques, and more.

What does this wisdom of sunny India mean?
Yoga is an integral part of the philosophical and religious teachings of ancient and medieval India. It is a system of exercises, methods and techniques, the purpose of which is not only to control the mental and physiological processes of the body, but also to ascend to a special spiritual state. Initially, yoga, with its system of psychophysical exercises, aimed to develop independence in the soul in relation to the body, so that after a person's death the soul would avoid reincarnation and dissolve into the primary faceless spiritual substance.


    
Physical exercises developed in yoga are essentially religious rituals that open a person up to the Hindu "spirituality." Yoga exercises in their direct use are associated with occult meditations, and various yoga poses identify a person with animals or even objects (for example, the "cobra pose", "cow's head", "dog face down" and others). As a rule, special body movements, fixed postures, holding one's breath, chanting mantras, and visualization are used – a way of working with the imagination in which, closing one's eyes, one mentally draws an image in the dark and over time one sees the imaginary very vividly and clearly. Some poses excite the sexual centers, according to yoga teachers, this is necessary to take advantage of sexual energy, transform it and distribute it throughout the body for healing and vigor.

Unfortunately, not everyone understands that religious faith, morality, and external rituals and practices are deeply interconnected, so you cannot use any practice on its own without experiencing the influence of the spiritual essence that this practice expresses. Even external movements can contain a certain formula-a sign that informs the soul of the mood corresponding to the Indian religion. Indian-occult or Eastern systems offer their own psychotechnical techniques aimed at "expanding consciousness," "supersensible perception," and "opening up inner spaces." The true goal of all types of yoga is to reveal the hidden "divinity" in oneself, to merge with the primordial reality and thus reveal supernatural spiritual forces in oneself. Here is how the famous yoga apologist, who formally belonged to the Catholic Benedictine order, Frenchman Jean-Marie Deschanel, frankly admits in his book "Christian Yoga": "The goals of Indian yoga are spiritual. It can be equated to betrayal to forget this and preserve only the physical side of this spiritual teaching, when people see in it only a means to achieve bodily health and beauty. <...> The art of yoga consists in immersing oneself in complete silence, discarding all thoughts and illusions from oneself; rejecting and forgetting everything except one truth: the true essence of man is divine; she is God, the rest can only be dreamed of."1.
In Hinduism, many were attracted by the idea that man is divine in himself, that he has all the perfections that can be revealed using special techniques, and therefore, the difficult path to God through overcoming his passions, which Christianity offers, is not at all necessary. You just need to reveal your hidden divinity. It is interesting to note that one of the common mantra expressions in India is "so-ham, so-ham", that is, "I am Him, I am Him". As you know, the feeling of self–importance, self-sufficiency, combined with a feeling of euphoria - self-enjoyment, in Christian asceticism is called charm, that is, seduction, self-deception. Man thinks of himself as divine, but in reality he remains without God, but the dark forces flatter his pride by imitating divine perfections. This is a repetition of the ancient temptation to become "like the gods" (Gen. 3:5), to gain divine knowledge and powers, which an invisible seducer constantly whispers to man.



Here is a real-life example that reflects the true background of Oriental practices. There is a woman in Sergiev Posad district who, having been baptized into Orthodoxy, became interested in Buddhism at some point. Moreover, she did not think at all that this somehow contradicted the Christian faith. Simply, having no experience of church life, and only occasionally turning to the prayer book, she did not feel a spiritual substitution. She was attracted by the moral truths of Buddhism – forgiveness, selflessness, rejection of any wishes, and liked their meditative practice, which seemed to bring long-awaited peace to the troubled soul.

The woman became more and more interested in Eastern spirituality, and, as it seemed to her at the time, had already achieved considerable success. One day, in a dream, she saw two venerable Buddhist mentors, mahatmas, who addressed her with these words: "You've already achieved a lot. But in order to achieve full perfection, you have only one thing left to do– to renounce Christ." In amazement, the woman asked: "But why is this necessary, because I believed that Christianity does not contradict Buddhism?" She, like many of our contemporaries, believed that different religions were different, but equal paths to God, while she revered Christ in her heart.

The woman intuitively felt that there was something wrong, alien and bad in this requirement. The night guests replied: "It's necessary to achieve full perfection." Probably, having become interested in Buddhism, she did not delve deeply into its philosophy, where the key place is occupied by renunciation of all desires and attachments, hence, attachment to Christ. "No," she said, "I can't renounce." "Oh," the visitors suddenly reacted, "then we'll torture you." At that moment, both assumed the eerie image of demons, and began throwing burning coals at the woman's head.

Of course, you can write off such a vision as just a nightmare. But the tortures themselves were perceived so vividly that the sufferer began to scream. Her own mother, hearing her daughter's screams, and seeing that something was wrong with her - some kind of terrible attack, and her daughter could not wake up – called an ambulance. The doctors tried unsuccessfully to give the patient an injection – the muscles were so tense that the needle could not penetrate inside. Through her sleepy tortures, the woman remembered a simple Christian prayer: "Lord, have mercy!" and the demons and their torments instantly disappeared. When she woke up, after drinking holy water, she realized that she needed to go to the temple for spiritual help. The priest, having delved into the woman's condition, recommended that she confess and receive communion weekly.

Gradually, her spiritual state improved, but one feature appeared after that night's event – from time to time the woman saw demons. One day she met a friend of hers, who began enthusiastically telling her that she was interested in Buddhism and that it was all interesting and healthy. The woman, who was wise from bitter experience, immediately wanted to warn her against such a hobby, but she was just about to open her mouth when she saw two cunning demons on the shoulders of the interlocutor, who deftly covered her ears and, grinning, as if they were saying: "Let's see what you can do." The woman realized that everything she was going to say would not reach her soul.

Indeed, people often get so carried away with oriental practices that no arguments are perceived by them, and only stuffed cones force them to reconsider their lives.
Unfortunately, many people nowadays believe that the teachings of Buddhism on a number of issues coincide with the Christian, for example, in overcoming passions, eradicating sinful desires, perfection, love for others and sacrifice. However, external similarities often hide the abyss into which anyone who wants to connect the incongruous in one leap falls and breaks. I would like to cite the reflections of Prince N. S. Trubetskoy, a researcher of the religions of India, on the external similarities and deep inner differences that are observed between Buddhism and Christianity: "The path to achieving nirvana was indicated by the Buddha in two ways. On the one hand, the psychophysical exercises of self-immersion, concentrated meditation, breath-holding, etc., are almost identical in techniques to the yoga system. But on the other hand, self–sacrifice and love for everything that exists. However, this second path is like a part of the first, a special psychophysical exercise. Love, mercy, compassion – all these are not feelings for a Buddhist, because feelings should not remain in his soul, but only the result, the consequence of the complete loss of a sense of his individuality and his personal desires: in such a mental state, it is worthless for a person to sacrifice himself for his neighbor, because, having no desire of his own, he Naturally, he easily fulfills the wishes of others. It is recommended that you suppress your will so much that you act solely according to the will of another person in the form of an exercise. Forgiveness is seen as a means of destroying feelings: indifference finds its end when a person treats an enemy in exactly the same way as a friend, when he is indifferent to joy and pain, to honor and dishonor."2. In other words, such a person is like a robot that has neither personality nor feelings, and therefore dispassionately executes any program inherent in it. Contrary to this, in Christianity, sacrifice, forgiveness, and love are based not on the suppression of desires in oneself, not on the destruction of a personal principle, but on the purity of a heart that has acquired God's grace. A soul that has found freedom from sin in God is happy to help others, she forgives and sacrifices because she loves – this is her innermost happiness.

Returning to yoga, we note that breathing exercises and body postures prepare a person for certain spiritual experiences. Let us repeat that the true purpose of yoga is religious and ascetic. The yogis themselves believe that at the highest stages of this ascetic practice, when all mental processes stop and a person reaches samadhi, that is, a state of concentration without content, the seeds of karma are "burned out" in him, and this frees him from a new rebirth, allows him to free himself from the body forever and cease to exist as a person. Here we see a cardinal divergence from Christianity, in which the personality is not destroyed, but transformed and reaches its highest self-expression in communion with God.

According to Christian teaching, in a soul united with God, the gifts given to a particular person are revealed. And even in the next age, after the universal resurrection, when "God will be all in all" (1 Cor. 15:28), the personality will not be destroyed, because, as the Scripture says, we will see God "face to face" (1 Cor. 13:12), that is, communion with God. – this is always a deeply personal communication, which is not depersonalized in the general conciliar prayer. This experience is more or less accessible to every Christian here and now. And in this personal encounter with God as Life, Love, and Joy, our own lives become more authentic, internally saturated, inspired, and vibrant.



Meditation plays an essential role in yoga. Meditation (from Latin. meditatio is the inner concentration of the mind on a certain idea. The meditator mentally detaches himself from all external objects, striving for a certain mental state.
If prayer is an appeal to God, then meditation is a conversation with oneself, in fact, self–hypnosis. It is assumed that meditation awakens deep forces dormant in the depths of the meditator's soul, and such a person becomes capable, for example, of clairvoyance. If in Christianity there is a wise act and prayer of Jesus, in which a Christian turns with all his being to God and His mercy, then in occultism and Eastern practices, through meditation, a person searches for a secret passage leading to spiritual perfection. In Hindu meditation, a person strives for identity with the absolute and, reaching a trance, comes to the feeling that he is one with the deity, or rather, that the primordial divinity is revealed in himself.

Meditation, as an experience of non-Christian religious and mystical practice, naturally entails spiritual states outside of Christ and without communion of His grace. Sooner or later, it may seem to such a person that he himself becomes a conductor of higher revelations, carrying a special mission on earth. I recall the example of the Indian poet and mystic, one of the founders of Bengali Krishnaism, Chondidasha (XIV–XV centuries), who from a young age was ordained a priest of the goddess Durga. Being a representative of the highest caste of brahmins, Chondidash fell in love with a woman of the lowest caste, a simple laundress Rami. For a brahmin, the preservation of caste purity is a sacred duty. Chondidash sought a solution to his personal problem in meditation and an inner appeal to the goddess Durga. In this activity, he began to contemplate his beloved, and in such meditations, Chondidash gained confidence that he himself was a manifestation of the spirit of Krishna, and Rami was the embodiment of Krishna's beloved cowherd Radha. Chondidash himself believed that the goddess Durga had revealed this secret to him. This is how occult spiritual practice culminates in occult revelations.
Do yoga and meditation practices have any effect on people? Representatives of these practices often testify that yoga balances internal forces and calms the nervous system. But as a result, a person's soul stops hurting. He does not feel any contradictions in his soul, and does not feel the need to confess his sins. Thus, the tranquility achieved through yoga and meditation deprives a person of the opportunity to repent of his sins and free himself from them. A person has achieved spiritual comfort, but in the depths of his soul there are still unconfessed sins that he does not remember. In fact, mental instability in our real life can be an indicator that suggests that we should hurry to the temple for the Sacraments, repent before God, correct ourselves, and yoga with meditative practice deprive the soul of this indicator.


    
As for the seemingly obvious physical benefits of yoga, this is a common misconception. The benefits of the simplest yoga exercises are no more observed than from all other physical education complexes. Yoga, if practiced seriously, is harmful to health, and the idea that Indian yogis live a long time and do not suffer from serious illnesses is deeply incorrect. In the 1980s, universal medical examinations were conducted in India, which showed that yogis live on average even less than an ordinary Indian and suffer from many diseases. For example, the upper respiratory tract and gastrointestinal tract, because every day they clean the nasopharynx with tourniquets and make enemas for themselves, and over time the mucous membrane in the nasal cavity and intestines collapses; dislocations of joints, arthritis and arthrosis due to frequent exposure to unnatural poses; cataracts of the eyes, because they often focus on The sun. There were many people suffering from chronic venereal diseases.

Since yoga focuses on rebuilding the body and its rhythms, this can disrupt biological processes in such a way that the psychosomatic disorder becomes irreversible, and no doctor will be able to understand what happened to the person.

In conclusion, it should be said that in all mystical-occult systems, practices and meditations, one can find any kind of reflections, thoughts, ideas, except for one thing – there is no repentance in them. Christianity testifies that as the soul approaches God, a person sees his imperfection and lack of self-sufficiency more and more clearly. Therefore, the experience of approaching God confirms humility, repentance and love in a Christian. Thanks to this, the pure, sincere joy of union with the Lord, Who sees, hears and loves you, is possible. The Eastern mystical experience rejects the personal God, and therefore strives to overcome the personality of man in samadha or nirvana, gives the experience of dissolving his individuality in the ocean of the impersonal. Having not met a personal God, a person in Eastern mysticism naturally tends to personal death.

Source: https://pravoslavie.ru/67749.html

[Casey Claar]

Wow.

I am sort of speechless. But I will say this:

The word YOGA means to "yoke", to UNITE.

The union is (by way of experience ) of The Supreme Self with the personal self. It is a system that is suggesting from the beginning that there is no fundamental separation between The Supreme and personal self. It encourages one to glean and experience this by way of meditation--a purity and stillness of mind that allows one the direct experience of fundamental reality. I say this as someone with extensive experience in meditation, not someone who is outside of it looking onward with fear. Someone who has experienced, through a pure-and-still-mind, seeing through layers of the illusion that a great many never will (due to fear). There is only ONE CONSCIOUSNESS, we are all within it, IT is what is being all of us ... everyone and every thing. As the Vedantan's say "One without a second". A fascinating concise little stanza with the potential to be life altering. It has been for me.

When most people in the West think of yoga they are thinking in terms of Raja ( or Hatha ) Yoga.

This system has 8 limbs:

Yama (right/beneficial action/behavior)
Niyama (unbeneficial action/behavior)
Asana (right posture)
Pranayama (command of the breath and energy system)
Pratyahara (a consciousness state fairly equivalent with peace)
Dharana (contemplation)
Dyana (meditation. stillness)
Samadhi (liberation)

Yes, when one begins to wake they become "brighter". Yes, this does make this one more visible and in a sense, sometimes more feared. Yes, there are those who do attack what they fear. Yes, sometimes the attacks are with honey rather than fists. Yes, the awakening one has to navigate this successfully to get beyond where it occurs. Yes, those who are not yet ready, should begin where they are before venturing further.

I have endeavored to be succinct. I hope someone finds it helpful.


Casey

[arjunaloka_official]

Nice posts, Russian Bear. I'm no expert on Hinduism or yoga. Nevertheless, I have a few spontaneous questions:

Yoga (...) lacks God, lacks a desire to know him

Is that true? As you write, the yogi in Hinduism strives for moksha. Moksha is union with the divine—so can we really say they don't want to know God? In Hinduism, the divine concept has several (probably hundreds, if not more) aspects. One approach is the concept of the Trimurti: There is Brahma (the Creator), Vishnu (the Protector), and Shiva (the Destroyer)—these are personal aspects of the divine that emanate from Brahman, the ultimately ineffable source of the divine, which is described as "neti, neti" (not this, not that). That doesn't sound too implausible, because attempting to describe God as a human seems rather ambitious, doesn't it?

No awareness of one's own sinfulness;
Yoga means neither repentance nor remorse for one's own actions;

Hinduism uses the concept of karma, which, simply put, means "input = output". Therefore, those who have "bad" karma are reborn. From this perspective, aren't Hindus very aware of their sinfulness? Shouldn't they strive for (karmic) balance? Isn't this balance exactly what Jesus recommends – see Matthew 7:12:
"Therefore, whatever you want others to do to you, do also to them. This is what the Law and the Prophets consist of."

Isn't this approach essentially called Karma Yoga in Hinduism? Doesn't this approach require a very precise ability to distinguish between good and evil?
Other approaches include Hatha Yoga (the "athletic" approach) or Jnana Yoga (which focuses more on learning, contemplation, reasoning, and meditation), and there are many more.

Through meditation, one releases spiritual entities (demons) from one's body. These entities can grant one various abilities, but at the same time, they can completely distance one from salvation and the true God.

Meditation (in Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age) aims to empty the mind or merge with the cosmos, thereby opening the soul to demonic influences.

Does "cleansing the mind" really aim to invite demons, or is it not rather the exact opposite: the elimination of demons that are already attached to us and constantly speaking to us? Isn't it more about silencing these demonic voices (which Gnostics call archontic and some Native Americans call "wetiko") in order to gain clarity about the true Divine by cleansing the vessel of possession? Don't get me wrong—I think prayer is an effective way to get closer to God. I just wonder if it's the only way.

I agree that one must be very careful with channeling and do NOT recommend it. However, channeling is not the same as meditation—in channeling, you actively seek connection with spiritual entities.

"The art of yoga consists in immersing yourself in complete silence, discarding all thoughts and illusions, and rejecting and forgetting everything except one truth: the true nature of man is divine."

I agree that the Christian perspective that salvation is possible (only) through the grace of the Lord is probably more realistic, given the multiple temptations of duality. In this sense, Hinduism seems a bit cold because it places all the responsibility for achieving the balance required for moksha, salvation, on one's own shoulders.

Still, I would argue that in Hinduism, one must overcome one's passions. Isn't it actually a side effect of achieving spiritual balance (in Hinduism) that one gains control over the so-called siddhis, one of which is "anūrmimattvam"—unbothered by hunger, thirst, and other bodily desires?

Another side effect of this is "tiikālajñatvam": the knowledge of past, present, and future—which you describe as clairvoyance. Didn't Christian prophets (who are holy, which basically means their spiritual balance is above average) also have this ability?

Finally, I personally wouldn't overestimate the Mahavakyas (the four great sayings). You're right, one of them is "Aham Brahmasmi." And indeed, this means "I am Brahman," and you're right that this might be a bit misleading, as one might think he or she is actually identical with the Lord. My interpretation is that this rather reflects the idea that one is "a part" of the Divine. However, I am not entirely sure whether the Bible would stand up to such a test - would it not be possible to also find misleading passages in the Bible?

Peace be with you, Russian Bear!

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Casey Claar (here)
Wow.

Wow indeed.

We have over 100,000 Avalon threads on literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of different issues, and quite a large number of those are about what could loosely be regarded as esoteric topics — ranging from Judaism, to reincarnation, to ET experiences, to Christianity, to near-death experiences, to astral travel, to Biblical history, to scientology, to remote viewing, to telepathy, to breatharianism, to spiritual healing, to dream interpretation, to astrology, to Buddhism, to appearances of the Virgin Mary, to apparent personal glimpses of future events... and that's just the start. (Yes, meditation and yoga too. )

There are some of those topics about which I have relatively little knowledge, and others about which I feel I know quite a bit. (Many other members might describe themselves in much the same way.) My own position is that discussion on all these topics is valuable, contributing to our extremely extensive library from which we can all learn if we wish.

In all those discussions on esoterica that members have had over the years, I'm not aware right now of anyone who's disrespectfully and dogmatically flatly dismissed anyone else's views, experiences, practices, or profound beliefs. We're a pretty tolerant community in that way.

There are disagreements sometimes, for sure, on politics, geopolitics, culture, and some aspects of history. But regarding religion, profound personal experiences, and discussion of others' personal experiences, I think it's safe to say that we just usually listen carefully with interest and respect.

So this thread isn't a very good example of the values which I feel the Avalon community embodies pretty well. I, for one, would never dismiss or disrespect Orthodox Christianity. I doubt that any other members would either, whatever their personal experiences or beliefs. Maybe you could return that respect and tolerance by being a little less dogmatic and intolerant yourself.

[lunaflare]

Thanks for the posts.

There are so many things in this world that create separation. This is the "right" way. It feels limiting. There can be many ways, surely...

I can respect the teachings of Orthodox Christianity--cultivating a connection to God without a human intermediary; Jesus being the Way, the Truth, and the Light.

I came to Yoga later in my life due to health reasons. It has helped me become more flexible; physically and mentally. It has helped with dizziness and vertigo. I like the softly lit class and the way my brain fires up doing different sequences. I like that no class is the "same". I appreciate the people who smile hello each morning, and there is no need to talk. I feel prayerful. I feel connected.

What I am thinking right now, as I tap these keys, is that at the end of this life (in our bodies) we all take the final resting pose; corpse pose; savasana.

[Casey Claar]

Sadly,

All too often in our world there is a movement, and even rush, toward misunderstanding, rather than a genuine inclination toward true understanding.

Judgment, bias and fear stand stand in the way of the latter, and, of course, therefore, any real growth toward equanimity and union.

[Russian Bear]

Posted by arjunaloka_official (here)
Nice posts, Russian Bear. I'm no expert on Hinduism or yoga. Nevertheless, I have a few spontaneous questions:

Yoga (...) lacks God, lacks a desire to know him

Is that true? As you write, the yogi in Hinduism strives for moksha. Moksha is union with the divine—so can we really say they don't want to know God? In Hinduism, the divine concept has several (probably hundreds, if not more) aspects. One approach is the concept of the Trimurti: There is Brahma (the Creator), Vishnu (the Protector), and Shiva (the Destroyer)—these are personal aspects of the divine that emanate from Brahman, the ultimately ineffable source of the divine, which is described as "neti, neti" (not this, not that). That doesn't sound too implausible, because attempting to describe God as a human seems rather ambitious, doesn't it?



The Russian Bear answers:

All religions do not lead to one God. There is only one path that leads to God: Jesus Christ.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:6

Yoga invites you to know false gods.
For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the Lord made the heavens.
Psalm 96:5

Here's what I think: Yoga leads you into various sins: 1) it simply makes you an idolater 2) it makes a person into the likeness of God (Buddha) This is already the fall of satan himself, that man thinks that he can do something on his own, and generally become like God.

No awareness of one's own sinfulness;
Yoga means neither repentance nor remorse for one's own actions;

Hinduism uses the concept of karma, which, simply put, means "input = output". Therefore, those who have "bad" karma are reborn. From this perspective, aren't Hindus very aware of their sinfulness? Shouldn't they strive for (karmic) balance? Isn't this balance exactly what Jesus recommends – see Matthew 7:12:
"Therefore, whatever you want others to do to you, do also to them. This is what the Law and the Prophets consist of."

Isn't this approach essentially called Karma Yoga in Hinduism? Doesn't this approach require a very precise ability to distinguish between good and evil?
Other approaches include Hatha Yoga (the "athletic" approach) or Jnana Yoga (which focuses more on learning, contemplation, reasoning, and meditation), and there are many more.

The Russian Bear answers:
There is no repentance for sins in yoga. Some schools of yoga speak of repentance, but their concept is far removed from the Christian understanding of this concept.

Yoga practices asceticism with the goal of subordinating one's physical nature to oneself, to one's "I," rather than to God.

The doctrine of karma and the concept of repentance have different roots and are not consistent in yoga and Orthodox Christianity.

Karma is a concept rooted in Eastern religions and philosophies, such as Hinduism and Buddhism. Broadly speaking, karma is the law of cause and effect, which states that every action, thought, and intention of a person influences their future.

In yoga, the concept of karma is linked to the idea that whatever a person does will have consequences for them—either good or bad. If a person is destined for another incarnation, the "quality" of that incarnation will depend on how they lived their previous life.

In Orthodoxy, the concept of karma in its classical Eastern meaning is not recognized. In Christianity, the soul lives only once, after which it goes to Judgment and is destined for heaven or hell. God's grace is more important than "merit." Salvation is possible through repentance, faith, and God's mercy, and not merely through the accumulation of good deeds. But even without good deeds, hope alone won't save you—it's a double-edged sword. Trust in mercy and good deeds play an important role. However, we should attribute good deeds not to ourselves but to God. For without God, we are nothing!

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast (Eph. 2:8,9)

The words of Christ: “Without Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5).

Thus, the doctrine of karma and the concept of repentance have different approaches and foundations, and they cannot be combined within a single context, as they correspond to different religious and philosophical systems.

I'd also like to add something about karma:

In Orthodoxy, there's a "law of the boomerang," established by God: a person receives back what they do. If a person does something good, it can come back to them double or triple, and if something bad happens, that too can come back.

Some Bible quotes that may be related to this principle:
"For whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap" (Galatians 6:7).
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy" (Matthew 5:7).
"For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with what measure you mete, it will be measured to you again" (Matthew 7:2).
"I am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands of those who love Me and keep My commandments" (Exodus 20:5-6).

Orthodoxy lacks the concept of automatic retribution that occurs independently of God. Divine Providence operates in the world, and it is God, as a reasonable, good, and just Judge, who knows exactly how and to whom to repay a person's deeds. He can also cancel retribution if a person repents.

“I have blotted out like a thick cloud your transgressions, and like a cloud your sins. Return to Me, for I have redeemed you.” (Isaiah 44:22)

Or cancel the retribution of a sinner, since he will still go to hell for his sins and he will not repent. He may die within a year.

If a person has not received retribution for his sins on earth, he will receive it in the afterlife.

Deuteronomy 30:19 also says: "I call heaven and earth to testify against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live."

Sin is a curse and death for the soul; repentance is life and salvation for the soul.

Every person will receive their own reward for their labors. The more sinful a person is in hell, the greater the torment they experience. The more righteous and virtuous a person is, the more joyful he will be in Heaven. Each person will receive their own reward according to their deeds.

Through meditation, one releases spiritual entities (demons) from one's body. These entities can grant one various abilities, but at the same time, they can completely distance one from salvation and the true God.

Meditation (in Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age) aims to empty the mind or merge with the cosmos, thereby opening the soul to demonic influences.

Does "cleansing the mind" really aim to invite demons, or is it not rather the exact opposite: the elimination of demons that are already attached to us and constantly speaking to us? Isn't it more about silencing these demonic voices (which Gnostics call archontic and some Native Americans call "wetiko") in order to gain clarity about the true Divine by cleansing the vessel of possession? Don't get me wrong—I think prayer is an effective way to get closer to God. I just wonder if it's the only way.

I agree that one must be very careful with channeling and do NOT recommend it. However, channeling is not the same as meditation—in channeling, you actively seek connection with spiritual entities.


The Russian Bear answers:
In Orthodoxy, meditation (It is correct to say prayer, since meditation and prayer are completely different words and the concepts embedded in them) is associated with spiritual concentration, centered on the living God—Christ.

In yoga, meditation is associated with purifying the consciousness and detaching oneself from the world outside of communion with God. This leads you to false sources where the true God is absent. And where God and grace are absent, demonic entities take over, helping you achieve your goal. And these entities are the cause of negative, irreversible processes.

They promise freedom to such, but they themselves are slaves to destruction, for everyone becomes a slave to the one who conquers them.
2 Peter 2:19

Prayer is the fruit of a personal relationship between a person and God. He who does not believe in God as a Person cannot pray.

Every person must know himself, that he is nothing. Almighty God Himself cannot save someone who does not know themselves, even though He desires to save them.

Man by himself is incapable of anything without God.

Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
Matthew 6:27

Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much better off than they?
Commentary on Matthew 6:26

So, thinking that a person can become like God through spiritual practices is a lie. Buddha, who is worshiped and believed to have achieved greatness and become like God, is also a lie. A demon possessed his soul, and through this, he deceived many people. That is the essence of his self-knowledge.

"The art of yoga consists in immersing yourself in complete silence, discarding all thoughts and illusions, and rejecting and forgetting everything except one truth: the true nature of man is divine."

I agree that the Christian perspective that salvation is possible (only) through the grace of the Lord is probably more realistic, given the multiple temptations of duality. In this sense, Hinduism seems a bit cold because it places all the responsibility for achieving the balance required for moksha, salvation, on one's own shoulders.

Still, I would argue that in Hinduism, one must overcome one's passions. Isn't it actually a side effect of achieving spiritual balance (in Hinduism) that one gains control over the so-called siddhis, one of which is "anūrmimattvam"—unbothered by hunger, thirst, and other bodily desires?

Another side effect of this is "tiikālajñatvam": the knowledge of past, present, and future—which you describe as clairvoyance. Didn't Christian prophets (who are holy, which basically means their spiritual balance is above average) also have this ability?

Finally, I personally wouldn't overestimate the Mahavakyas (the four great sayings). You're right, one of them is "Aham Brahmasmi." And indeed, this means "I am Brahman," and you're right that this might be a bit misleading, as one might think he or she is actually identical with the Lord. My interpretation is that this rather reflects the idea that one is "a part" of the Divine. However, I am not entirely sure whether the Bible would stand up to such a test - would it not be possible to also find misleading passages in the Bible?

Peace be with you, Russian Bear!

The Russian Bear answers:
Orthodoxy teaches that a person cannot conquer passions without God, because passions are the result of demonic influence that penetrates the human soul and destroys it.

According to this teaching, each passion is shaped by a specific demon, and dependence on this demon makes a person captive to the corresponding vice. The struggle with passions must be rational, as a person is struggling with a force that is in many ways superior to them.

Furthermore, victory over passions is only possible under certain conditions: a person must recognize their own weakness, repent, humble themselves, and turn to God for forgiveness.

It is also believed that it often happens that, by abandoning one passion, a person becomes consumed by another, and one passion drives out the other.

Thus, according to Orthodox teaching, victory over passions is possible only with God's help and under certain spiritual conditions.

Some prophets are from the devil, and some are from God. How can we understand what spirit a prophet is? There are Edgar Cayce, Baba Vanga, Wolf Messing, and others... But how can we understand who is from God? The Bible gives us the answers:

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1 John 4:1

Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and he in God.
Commentary on 1 John 4:15

By their fruits you will know them. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?
Commentary on Matthew 7:16

Also, all biblical prophecies have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled in the future. Everything the prophets foretold from God is coming to pass.

For the Lord God does nothing without revealing His secret to His servants the prophets.
Amos 3:7

Our Orthodox prophets emerged from the Orthodox Church and preached about Jesus Christ, repentance for sins, and salvation—what the Church and God teach us.

Prophecies are given so that people do not lose and repent before difficult times and death does not take them by surprise, so that they are vigilant, so that they are strengthened in trials, so that people believe in God.

Everything in the Bible is true; no one has rewritten it or changed it many times. God ensured that it reached us in its current form for our salvation. This is a separate topic; anyone interested can explore it further if time permits.

Thank you for your comment, it helped me understand your thinking better.

I'm not a priest either, just an ordinary Orthodox Christian. I'm answering to the best of my knowledge; priests do this, they graduate from theological seminaries... So my answer may be rather weak and may not answer all of your questions. Please keep this in mind. And I was pleased to respond to your comment. God bless you!

And don't forget that satan himself takes the form of a bright angel and the appearance of light:

And no wonder: for Satan himself takes the form of an angel of light,
Commentary on 2 Corinthians 11:14

[Russian Bear]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Casey Claar (here)
Wow.

Wow indeed.

We have over 100,000 Avalon threads on literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of different issues, and quite a large number of those are about what could loosely be regarded as esoteric topics — ranging from Judaism, to reincarnation, to ET experiences, to Christianity, to near-death experiences, to astral travel, to Biblical history, to scientology, to remote viewing, to telepathy, to breatharianism, to spiritual healing, to dream interpretation, to astrology, to Buddhism, to appearances of the Virgin Mary, to apparent personal glimpses of future events... and that's just the start. (Yes, meditation and yoga too. )

There are some of those topics about which I have relatively little knowledge, and others about which I feel I know quite a bit. (Many other members might describe themselves in much the same way.) My own position is that discussion on all these topics is valuable, contributing to our extremely extensive library from which we can all learn if we wish.

In all those discussions on esoterica that members have had over the years, I'm not aware right now of anyone who's disrespectfully and dogmatically flatly dismissed anyone else's views, experiences, practices, or profound beliefs. We're a pretty tolerant community in that way.

There are disagreements sometimes, for sure, on politics, geopolitics, culture, and some aspects of history. But regarding religion, profound personal experiences, and discussion of others' personal experiences, I think it's safe to say that we just usually listen carefully with interest and respect.

So this thread isn't a very good example of the values which I feel the Avalon community embodies pretty well. I, for one, would never dismiss or disrespect Orthodox Christianity. I doubt that any other members would either, whatever their personal experiences or beliefs. Maybe you could return that respect and tolerance by being a little less dogmatic and intolerant yourself.

Look, I said right away that I'm answering from the perspective of an Orthodox Christian. Russia is, at its core, an Orthodox state. We're a vast country with a vast and diverse population. People of various views—Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants—but the Orthodox are the most prominent, historically speaking.

I respect everyone and their views. By the way, where do you see me offending anyone? I merely expressed the essence of an Orthodox Christian's view of spiritual matters, and every Orthodox Christian will tell you the same. We simply cannot do otherwise. For example, if someone has cancer, I won't lie to them and say they're healthy. The person thinks that everything is fine with him. Otherwise, I'll simply lie to them, and they'll die. I'll be responsible for their death and an accomplice in this deception. I must tell them the truth, even if they're offended. I must tell them they're sick and need to take these pills, and then they'll help them... Yes, for an Orthodox Christian, only Orthodoxy offers salvation, and it is the true path. All others lead to destruction. The Church is a ship. Jesus Christ is its captain. I am telling you this again from the Church's perspective. Everyone makes a choice in this life. I do not condemn those who make a different choice. But for me, it will not be salvific; I can only pray for such a person.

To better understand the Orthodox, you need to learn more about this.

For example, we cannot pray together with Catholics or Protestants; they are heretics to us. Because they distort God's true teaching, and we view the same things differently. We can't sing the same song with them, because we sing different songs. Orthodox Christians can only pray with Orthodox Christians. If I pray with a Catholic, I commit the sin of ecumenism.

We pray for them and thereby show them love; we wish for their souls to be saved. We are also obligated to treat them with love, as we would any neighbor. This doesn't mean they are bad people. It means that their choice is not salutary for us and to them. After all, God has nothing to do with lies.

"It is impossible for God to lie" (Hebrews 6:18).

"The Lord hates lying lips" (Proverbs 12:22).

"A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who speaks lies will not escape" (Proverbs 19:5).

"And no defilement, nor anyone who practices abomination or lies, will enter it (the Kingdom of Heaven)" (Revelation 21:27).

"No lie is of the truth" (1 John 2:21).

"All unrighteousness is sin" (John 5:17).

Why Orthodoxy is the true faith. Alexey Osipov: https://orthochristian.com/7174.html

I shared the official Orthodox sources that the Church teaches us. We also submit to the Church and don't have our own opinions (We have the opinion of the Bible and the Church, the Holy Fathers). We have the Bible, the Holy Fathers, and a personal spiritual father. Believe me, this thread has its uses for making people think.

I didn't say anything bad about anyone or insult their philosophy or faith. I called a spade a spade. And by the way, many may disagree with me here, and I will take that into account. God gave each person freedom of choice, for which each person will later answer before God, and for every word they say.

And of course, it's no secret that everything you listed above is a sin for the Orthodox Church and Orthodox Christians (all these spiritual practices and so on, occultism...)

But I don't force or coerce anyone, nor do I forbid them from making any choices. We simply communicate to think. I respect everyone here, but being afraid to express your thoughts openly and politely and to say that I disagree with them isn't an insult. There are different views on the same things. I simply encourage you to think and thus arrive at the truth. Let everyone think for themselves. Ultimately, "A drowning man must save himself."

When I served in the army with Muslims, everyone understood and adhered to their own views. Yes, there were religious discussions. But everyone truly held their own opinions. Everyone understood perfectly well how each other thought. And we communicated amicably, knowing that we believe in different Gods.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:6

I served in the same unit with Chechens and Yakuts. Yakuts are generally Buddhists. I also interact with a wide variety of people and know what I'm talking about. I've even had dealings with witches. They recounted the pernicious consequences of the occult demonic world, which had drained them of all their strength and nearly led to their deaths. They even showed off their altars. I know what forces control what. The Bible is a sieve that filters out all untruth.

It's a matter of views, personal choice. But there is only one truth. To find it, you must seek Bon with all your heart. Read the history of the church, explore the origins of everything. And then God will lead you to Himself. And ultimately, you will become an Orthodox Christian based on historical, archaeological, and spiritual (mystical) facts. I repeat: ultimately, it is you who decides what choice to make.

I'll also add that religion is like politics. Every religion disagrees with something.

The first revolutionary in the Kingdom of Heaven was satan, and he created a new party and wanted to create a new government. Now there are two parties. But there is only one path to salvation, no matter how many parties are created.

For us, the topic of salvation is a very important topic; we are ready to die for our Orthodox faith! When the Russian Empire existed, the main slogan was: For the Faith! Tsar and Fatherland! Faith always comes first. And when this question arises, it's about the salvation and life of the soul. Nothing is more important. There can be no tolerance here. You must be honest and speak your mind directly, not hypocritical or deceitful. By the way, do you have any Orthodox churches in your city? You can come to the service and simply stand, listen to the liturgy and prayers; it's not prohibited. If you want.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mh6gDeuuuss

Comrade! The war is waged not only on the Earthly front, but also on the Spiritual!

I know many stories of demons appearing to people and tormenting them. I'd tell you more about my life and these stories, but I don't think I have the time yet...

[Russian Bear]

Posted by lunaflare (here)
Thanks for the posts.
There are so many things in this world that create separation. This is the "right" way. It feels limiting. There can be many ways, surely...

I can respect the teachings of Orthodox Christianity--cultivating a connection to God without a human intermediary; Jesus being the Way, the Truth, and the Light.

I came to Yoga later in my life due to health reasons. It has helped me become more flexible; physically and mentally. It has helped with dizziness and vertigo. I like the softly lit class and the way my brain fires up doing different sequences. I like that no class is the "same". I appreciate the people who smile hello each morning, and there is no need to talk. I feel prayerful. I feel connected.

What I am thinking right now, as I tap these keys, is that at the end of this life (in our bodies) we all take the final resting pose; corpse pose; savasana.

God told John the Baptist to baptize. Who baptizes a man? He's also a man. You are already being baptized through an intermediary; that's how God arranged it.
John the Baptist also performed repentance and says: Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Commentary on Matthew 3:2

And they were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.
Matthew 3:6

You would be independent if you baptized yourself, performed all the sacraments yourself, and you wouldn't need a church; you're on your own.
You wouldn't need people to perform the sacraments.
God established priesthood, this was already in the Old Testament, He established these sacraments, nothing has changed. God did not destroy the Old Testament, He only made it perfect.

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets: I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Matthew 5:17

There is a church history that is impossible to go against; you alone will not be saved.


The Holy Fathers strove to acquire the gifts of the Holy Spirit (to fill their souls with the grace of the Holy Spirit), that is, to receive Divine grace, preserve it, and save it from toxic impurities, false teachings, and sinful defilement.

At the same time, the Holy Fathers warned that seeking "high" spiritual states through prayer, or special sensations, is not only unhelpful but also dangerous. Acquiring the Spirit requires, above all, deep humility and an awareness of one's own weakness without Christ.

Some Holy Fathers, such as St. Ephraim the Syrian, believed that grace is poured out equally upon each person and upon the entire created world. Blessed Cyprian of Carthage said: "The generously poured out grace of the Spirit is not constrained by any boundaries; it flows unceasingly, enriching beyond measure."

A person consists of three things: 1) the Body (the material shell is like a house for the soul), 2) the Soul (your individual spiritual shell that lives in the body), and 3) a spirit dwells in the soul—this can be either an evil spirit or the Holy Spirit of the Lord. You are only a recipient. The more evil a person is, the more evil spirit they possess, and the more they have displaced God from their soul.

Verses 28-29: And when He had arrived on the other side of the river, into the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one dared pass that way. And behold, they cried out, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, thou Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
Commentary on Matthew 8:28

And if the evil spirit is cast out of the soul through repentance, this is what will happen:

Verses 43-45 When an unclean spirit is gone out from a man, he passes through a dry place, seeking rest, and finds none. Then he says, "I will return to my house from whence I departed." And when he comes, he finds himself empty, dirty, and garbled. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there. And the last things of that man will be worse than the first. So will it be also to this evil generation.
Commentary on Matthew 12:43

This is what happens in the spiritual world, I once saw this cartoon, but it's true

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EL4CrvG4heo

In Orthodoxy, even a great sinner who spent 30 years as a prostitute can become a great ascetic and saint, and great holy grace from the Lord will dwell in her heart. This story really happened, and even the rock where she lived remains in the same place:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=BBXvDuNElB8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Egypt

Rejoice always in the Lord; and again I say, Rejoice.
Philippians 4:4

[Ernie Nemeth]

God is. That is all that can be said about the Creator of Worlds.
Reality is with God, not with God's creations.

No invention, idea, or human context can ever supercede that fact.

We live a lie, and we die for it too.
We are death; we must die to live.

This world, this universe, this reality is not the kingdom of God.
In fact, where we are does not exist.
The dead do not live, and do not experience reality.

The dead sleep. In their stupor they dream. What can the dead dream but fantasy?


Where your circles end, God's begin.

Beyond your fantasy is where God resides.


The body of Christ is a singular concept.
We are all a part of the One Host.
Together we are One.

Which means our fantasy of a life lived singular and alone is the lie.
We are dead to our own reality.


There is not many, there is only The One.
The Christ.


What we "see" is merely perception - vision based on belief.
When our vision is corrected we no longer "perceive", we actually see for the first time.

When we see through the eyes of Christ we see only God.

I perceive that we all have a long way to go yet...all of us.

[Matthew]

I'm with Russian Bear on this one.

This is an anti-Christian forum but not intentionally or maliciously. Hey, I love you guys and this beautiful forum means a lot to me I treasure you all, but I've long believed that the unseen world is more real than the 'real world' and fallen angels come as beings of love, light, and knowledge to seduce us then throw us away like spent candy wrappers.

Jesus came to divide us not unite us:

Luke 12, KJV: (emphasis mine)
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

If you find my opinion powerfully obnoxious then that's on you. I'm entitled to my own opinion. How does my opinion here really effect you? Don't be mad with me for what I think. I'd still fight hard to defend you, your right to your opinion, and treat you like my family given the chance. God gave us free will that is His choice. It means for example I respect your right to abortion but shudder at the thought.

The Bible is super clear about spiritual practices. It warns very strongly against occult and divination. And on the other hand we are invited to talk DIRECTLY to God Almighty on a very personal level, not even via a priest or whatnot but yourself directly with Him. The God of the universe wants to be our close personal friend. It's so awesome. Occult practices mean not going directly to God, when you do occult stuff it's going via familiar spirits.

Occult, divination, sacrifice and general witchcraft are the natural language of this world, which is run by what the Bible calls 'the prince of this world'. Although the prince of this world, and his crew, hate us because of our disobedience and rebellion against God. But then God offers us redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ. This undermines the fallen angels and their lofty pride, and this redemption is not offered to them, they're just plain going to Hell. God gave us superpowers in Jesus Christs name to combat these demons. Talk about turning the tables.

Anyway, probably not what you want to read from me but this feels like the time and the place. I seriously love you guys.

[Russian Bear]

You chose the right verse. Luke 12:51-53 Jesus said: "Do you think I came to bring peace to the earth? No, I'm telling you, but separation."

The Lord even says such words

"I have not come to bring peace, but a sword, for I have come to divide a man from his father, and a daughter from her mother, and a daughter-in-law from her mother-in-law" (Mt 10:34-36)

By the way, I published an article about fortune-telling that you mentioned.
96) Tarot card reading is a sin before God
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1686969

I think there will be people on this forum who will say that Christianity as a whole is not tolerant of people. It's crazy already.

In general, it's nice to know that at least some Christians are here.

Yes, there are good people on the forum, but I don't think they understand us.

Matthew 3:12 - King James Version (KJV)
<12> Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

[shaberon]

My objection is that as Buddhists, we enjoy a favorable relationship with the Tsars from the 1700s.

If we were seen as demons, that could not have happened.

Russian social unity was created by Mongolia and contains the Buddhist republic Buryatia.

Moreover, Orthodoxy is not a centralizing force like the Pope. It can't issue some decree that is auto-applied in every diocese.

Therefor, if there is a minority extremist trend that is obsessed with a Big Devil, it can't exactly stop that either. So, yes, it has had bands of witch hunters and the like, but it cannot become a crusade.

Since there is no way the Temple of Jerusalem was responding to "yoga", nothing about that can be canonical. So it must have been invented by someone at a later time. In this case, much later.


The canonical argument of it is that everyone else who has dipped their fingers in the same scriptures, the Pope and the Protestants, are people who just make their own opinions about the Bible and promote a false representation, which is the Anti-Christ. The primary mission of it is to bring in those seekers who are attracted by these "opinions" to come to their true home. I will freely assist in this, although I refuse to join it.

It's a kind of handshake that says I consider it none of my business what kind of liturgy and service they want to do in private in their free time. I respect that. I just do things differently. It just doesn't consist in scolding them and dwelling upon a sad fate or something like that. The challenge to an Orthodox is you must understand God's love applies equally to every being, and it is not your place to harp on their judgment or state of being, but to offer the source of salvation.

Similarly, I have a lot of stuff that I cannot say represents Buddhism, which I have to specify as a certain trend or teaching within that broader umbrella. I would suggest that the topics posted here be re-packaged as a properly-named philosophy with a definite origin, rather than something canonical.

[arjunaloka_official]

Thanks for your answers, Russian Bear!

Let me comment:

"For whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap" (Galatians 6:7)

Isn't that a very karmic statement?

Also, all biblical prophecies have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled in the future. Everything the prophets foretold from God is coming to pass.

Are there any exceptions? Jonah is sent by God to predict Nineveh, but God ultimately solves the city because its citizens regret. Isn't the prophet wrong?

Another question: Would you consider it accidental that there is a similarity in the words in Hinduism and Christianity? Some examples:

Hinduism:
- Krishna
- Atman (Sanskrit, meaning: soul/self/essence) and Jiva (Sanskrit, meaning: life), represented by two birds sitting in a tree
- Brahma and his wife, Sarasvati

Christianity:
- Christ
- Adam and Eve, eating from a tree
- Abraham and his wife, Sarah

Would you rule out that there was a connection from Hinduism to Judaism to Christianity, in which the human understanding of the Lord has developed?

[Russian Bear]

Posted by arjunaloka_official (here)
Thanks for your answers, Russian Bear!

Let me comment:

"For whatever a man sows, that shall he also reap" (Galatians 6:7)

Isn't that a very karmic statement?

The Russian Bear answers:
NO. Spiritual laws were created by God; they can be called by various names, but if you compare karma and divine punishment, they work differently. The truth is, as I already said, God controls punishments. A person can commit evil and mistakes, but if a person repents of their sins before God and asks for forgiveness, the Lord will have mercy on them and will not punish them for their sins. People have noticed this mechanism—that evil and good return—and have distorted the term "divine punishment" or "blessing" on karma, even introducing their own distorted ideas.
God said in the Bible that such laws exist and how they work.

Also, all biblical prophecies have either been fulfilled or will be fulfilled in the future. Everything the prophets foretold from God is coming to pass.

Are there any exceptions? Jonah is sent by God to predict Nineveh, but God ultimately solves the city because its citizens regret. Isn't the prophet wrong?

The Russian Bear answers:
NO. No, the prophet Jonah was not wrong, for God truly sent him with a prophecy of Nineveh's doom if its inhabitants did not repent.

However, the Ninevites' repentance was so strong and sincere that God regretted the disaster He had promised to bring upon them and pardoned them.

Jonah, however, was grieved that divine judgment had not been carried out on the city and mourned this before the Lord. He probably thought he would now be considered a false prophet.

The story of the prophet Jonah demonstrates God's mercy and His desire for the salvation of all people.

Do you know why God doesn't reveal the year or date of the Apocalypse? No one knows, not even the angels, but only the Heavenly Father! Because the end of the world depends on the repentance of people from their hearts. Evil increasingly subjugates people's hearts, so when evil gains the upper hand, it will create favorable conditions for the rise of the Antichrist—which is already happening. People are drifting further and further away from the Lord. But the gospel will still be preached throughout the world by Orthodox Russia. There are predictions to this effect from Greek, Russian, and Serbian Orthodox elders.

There will be wars and a third world war.

Another question: Would you consider it accidental that there is a similarity in the words in Hinduism and Christianity? Some examples:

Hinduism:
- Krishna
- Atman (Sanskrit, meaning: soul/self/essence) and Jiva (Sanskrit, meaning: life), represented by two birds sitting in a tree
- Brahma and his wife, Sarasvati

Christianity:
- Christ
- Adam and Eve, eating from a tree
- Abraham and his wife, Sarah

Would you rule out that there was a connection from Hinduism to Judaism to Christianity, in which the human understanding of the Lord has developed?

The Russian Bear answers:
NO. Buddhism was greatly influenced by the preaching of Christianity in the East at the very dawn of the Christian era. In the 19th century, Buddhism was viewed as a preparatory stage for conversion to Orthodoxy.

The devil can't invent anything of his own; he only takes something from God and distorts it, like a spider, to destroy more souls and deceive. He takes Truth and lies and mixes them into one. And people, seeing part of the truth, also believe the lies.

Thank you for your comment. I'm not a priest, but I'll do my best to answer all your questions.