Propaganda Awareness: Are You a Victim or a Contributor?

[rgray222]

I’m starting this thread because I genuinely want to understand how people determine whether the information they consume and share is propaganda. We might believe that we are immune to propaganda on Avalon, but we may be unknowingly sharing or being influenced by it. Often, when we have a very emotional response to information we are watching or reading, we are eager to share it without much or any basic fact-checking. The same can be said about topics on which our beliefs are firmly entrenched. Of course, we want to be part of the solution and not the problem, but is that always the case?

You can find propaganda on every imaginable topic, from politics to profits and from war to sports, so how do we identify it? A few other questions to think about:
Is propaganda fake news? Is fake news propaganda?
Is propaganda clickbait? is clickbait propaganda?
Is propaganda ever a good thing for society?

I cobbled this list together from several different sites on how to recognize propaganda.

• Check for Emotional Manipulation: Scrutinize info that drives emotion over reason. Be wary of messages that evoke strong emotions, like:
  1. anger
  2. fear
  3. sympathy
• Consider What’s Missing: Propaganda loves to tell half the story. Critical thinking will often uncover hidden agendas. Ask yourself:
  1. What facts aren’t being mentioned?
  2. Whose voices are missing from this conversation?
  3. Is there more to the story than what’s being presented?
• Spot Logical Fallacies: Look for flawed reasoning or misleading arguments within the message. Some common fallacies. When you recognize these tricks, the magic starts to crumble.
  1. Strawman Arguments: Misrepresenting the opposing side to make it easier to attack.
  2. Bandwagon Appeal: “Everyone is doing it, so you should too!”
  3. False Dilemmas: Presenting only two options when more exist.
• Recognize Common Techniques: Familiarize yourself with propaganda techniques such as:
  1. Name-calling
  2. Glittering generalities
  3. Testimonials
• Beware of Repetition, Repetition, Repetition: Repeated messages can create a false sense of truth. Repetition is powerful, but it’s not proof.
• Follow the Money: Investigate who benefits from the message and what their motives might be. If there is an agenda to push, be wary. Look for the driving force behind the message; tracing the source can reveal a lot.
• Pause and Question: Take a moment to think critically about the message and its intent.

Our minds are wonderful, unique creations that are constantly under assault, how do we protect ourselves from so much propaganda?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=T8L8tGErQPs

[Bill Ryan]

Ten minutes ago, I finished watching The Social Dilemma for the first time. I immediately thought I should post something about it. Then I looked and saw you'd just started this thread.

Here it is. It's devastating critique of the manipulative effects of social media.

https://rumble.com/v6s6jqp-the-social-dilemma.html

Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/v6pznhv

[sdv]

Propaganda: dissemination of information—facts, arguments, rumours, half-truths, or lies—to influence public opinion.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/propaganda

Britannica has a comprehensive overview of all aspects of propaganda, but the key distinguishing factor is that it is intended to 'influence public opinion'. All politics and advertising is propaganda.

All the advertising I am exposed to is manipulative. There is one exception. One of the large local supermarkets has a loyalty card that customers can get for free, and a pensioners' card. Wednesdays is market day, when pensioners get a substantial discount and a range of products are on sale for a special price. Every Tuesday I get a message simply listing the products and prices being offered on special. Potatoes and oranges for sale at very low prices? I can plan the week's meals around those two products. It is advertising ... to persuade me to shop there and not elsewhere, but is it dishonest or harmful?

I watch the Electronic Intifada channel. The purpose of the channel is supporting Palestinians, but it does not spread lies, and there are two things it has done throughout the war in Gaza that is rare elsewhere (Dropsite News is one of the rarities): Jon Elmer does comprehensive coverage of Palestinian military operations, and EI has always spoken to people inside Gaza (often the picture and sound is bad). Is it propaganda? Yes, but it sticks to facts. The Israelis, on the other hand, rely heavily on half-truths and lies for their propaganda. The Israelis do themselves no favours in their approach as tuned in people will switch them off because of the lies and sensational fake narratives. When EI talk about babies being targeted by snipers and bombs, they talk to people inside hospitals and we actually see the babies and children with their horrific injuries. We see the burnt out ambulances, the videos of unarmed men being gunned down, and even IDF soldiers who had escaped from their captors being shot and killed by the IDF even when they had stripped off their outerwear, were waving white flags, and were speaking Hebrew. Alongside the burnt out ambulances, we see Palestinian fighters on an operation, watching ambulances (vehicle or helicopter) pick up wounded IDF soldiers and never attacking them. And, yes, neither the EI nor the Palestinians themselves try and hide the truth when it is ugly ... One fighter found his family home destroyed and all of his extended family killed when he left the tunnels to visit with his family. He shot and killed a hostage point blank when he returned to the tunnels.

But, showing the truth is also propaganda because although EI (and others) are doing a public service by making vital information public, they clearly support the Palestinians and are trying to influence public opinion.

Is propaganda equally harmful if it is factual and fully truthful? Does free speech allow propaganda to flourish? Is Chase Hughes right when he says that language itself is a form of manipulation and control, and thus is all communication propaganda and thus bad? Musk claims he is developing a maximum 'truth-seeking AI' (he has since changed the phrase), but does it clearly distinguish between fact and opinion? Should AI be allowed to form an opinion and share it? Of course it is useful for AI to give detailed information on all opinions on a subject, but should it form opinions of its own?

On an optimistic note, fact checking can be used as a counterweight against the negative effects of propaganda. If anyone is not aware of what propaganda is and how it is used, this thread is extremely useful.

[ExomatrixTV]

• @rgray222 excellent topic, solid contributions here on this current new thread!

I am also known to use humor/"nwosatire" on YouTube (banned) even sarcasm ... as being super serious 24/7 can easily change in to becoming eternal frustrated WHICH I AM NOT ... am hyper focused! ... BUT to release some tension, it is also good to have a laugh ... I made "poll" where forum members can choose from but some of them are put in to be hilarious on purpose

Re: Whitewashed Lies

What do you do if you have friends and/or family who are spreading whitewashed lies or a victim of obvious propaganda? (mass tunnel vision conditioning, mass brainwashing).

• A. ignore them.
• B. try to educate them.
• C. no idea.
• D. getting frustrated (especially when the imposing stuff is involved).
• E. laugh about it.
• F. seeking ways to give them quality questions without pushing them.
• G. let it be.
• H. challenge them to debate the issue.
• I. giving them a hug.
• J. sharing this Project Avalon Forum Thread and ask what they think of it.
• K. condemn them.
• L. forgive them.
• M. ask them to seek professional help who are not part of the corrupt system, which seems an impossible task nowadays.
• N. share a very special documentary or lecture that hopefully wakes them up.
• O. become angry and upset (because you care!).
• P. do not care whatsoever.
• Q. feeling helpless, powerless and incompetent.
• R. not my problem.
• S. seeking more like-minded people and making new friends.
• T. sleep over it ... and wait what comes to mind with a fresh attitude, go with the internal flow.
• U. love them anyway.
• V. write an article about it.
• W. trying to use NLP techniques to counter their brainwashed minds.
• X. making memes about it (satire/parody/sarcasm).
• Z. meditate on it or pray for them.

It is not really about studying the results of this poll ... but to see multi layered perspectives of behavior ... actually it is not about having to choose anything, it is about become aware which focus you chose or not.

<! edit update! >

If my hilarious poll idea would be part of the "test-exam" of my ACCM - Deep Ethics Project, not explaining it is meant to be funny or hilarious ... I could give them just an additional question:

• Why do you think I made this?

A. because it helps better understand dynamic (not fixed) processes in mass psychology
B. it is made to make us laugh at ourselves more
C. so that anyone studying that become more self-aware
D. all the above

Only correct answer: D.!

I wonder how highly "skeptical NPC types" pushed by their non-NPC types FRIENDS (who pose as "NPC-types" to temporary fit in for whatever reason) react to this "poll" ... Does it trigger something? ... Does it help to self-reflect? etc. ... Does it "plant seeds of considerations" lingering in their brain and find a way to eventually grow and when it pops up, they forgot what triggered it to do that!

• Fits perfectly in my: "once seen, you can not unsee it anymore" ethos.

Knowing how to bypass "mental defense reflex mechanism" (biologically rooted in the Amygdala) is one of the many keys to unlock ridged minds, accessing more of your full (uplifting/empowering/creative) potential we ALL have!

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Mike]

...........

[AutumnW]

It's easy to jump from having a feeling about something to becoming addicted to the rush of dopamine that fanaticism engenders. It starts out fairly innocently but before you know it, you can become a monster.

And after years of living in the realm of podcasts or forums devoted to a singular point of view, your thoughts and emotions have worn paths in your brain that eventually become deep trenches.

I know when I'm hooped. If someone is literally entrenched, I move on. And podcasts, like Meidas Touch, that I may be philosophically aligned with, but who get minor facts wrong, for bait, I no longer watch.

[Flash]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
It's easy to jump from having a feeling about something to becoming addicted to the rush of dopamine that fanaticism engenders. It starts out fairly innocently but before you know it, you can become a monster.

And after years of living in the realm of podcasts or forums devoted to a singular point of view, your thoughts and emotions have worn paths in your brain that eventually become deep trenches.

I know when I'm hooped. If someone is literally entrenched, I move on. And podcasts, like Meidas Touch, that I may be philosophically aligned with, but who get minor facts wrong, for bait, I no longer watch.

Could not agree more. Happy to see you understand propaganda in and out. So easy and in few sentences. I am wondering why most people do not see it.

[gini]

To see the brainwash in others is relatively easy,to be aware of your own blind spots & bias is difficult & painful, but apperantly it can be done with some serious self inquiry,endurance & a little help from a honest friend. I wonder ;Is there anyone who is free of any bias,prejudice & false concepts ?

[norman]

I just spent more than 20 minutes sitting quietly with my eyes mostly closed trying my best to get a clear impression of what it would be like to be living in a completely propaganda free world.

At times I thought I was getting there, and maybe, internally, I did, but then one more thing would pop up to spoil it. I gave up trying at the point where I realised that, looked at in the raw, spiritually, even the intellectually long established and assumed rules of objectivity are propaganda too.

I think there may not be a complete escape from propaganda externally beyond that translation stage from primary neuronal activity to non telepathic transmittable communication language, outgoing or incoming.

I wonder if emotional attachment or shared identities, as I think Flash was talking about. might be bigger factors than any form of so called objectivity within the mind.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
It's easy to jump from having a feeling about something to becoming addicted to the rush of dopamine that fanaticism engenders. It starts out fairly innocently but before you know it, you can become a monster.

And after years of living in the realm of podcasts or forums devoted to a singular point of view, your thoughts and emotions have worn paths in your brain that eventually become deep trenches.

I know when I'm hooped. If someone is literally entrenched, I move on. And podcasts, like Meidas Touch, that I may be philosophically aligned with, but who get minor facts wrong, for bait, I no longer watch.

Could not agree more. Happy to see you understand propaganda in and out. So easy and in few sentences. I am wondering why most people do not see it.

Flash, Thank you! Here's a video that relates to propaganda and makes me feel hopeful. Anna Kasparian talks about this Zionist, and former speechwriter for Obama complaining that she's finding it hard to communicate the Zionist community's goals and aspirations (Hasbara, in other words) to the younger Jewish community, because "they just can't get past the carnage in Gaza."

So in her mind the carnage is a problem because it interferes with her messaging, not because it's morally reprehensible. What gives me hope is how many young Jews are the most ardent supporters of basic morality, even though some of them have grown up in a toxic atmosphere thick with propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9DSVDLG1mY

[shaberon]

I've said it many times, I am a vessel of propaganda, understood as:


to cause a shift of reputation.

You could perhaps also call it a transfer of value.


It has nothing to do with argumentative techniques such as factual content or emotional appeal. That, perhaps, summarizes most writing styles, which I at least would assign negative value.

That leaves me negativized towards almost everything you can think of.

The remark about Electronic Intifada is close to what I mean. Someone like that will get my attention and support. The alternatives are wasting their time.

[Mike]

Richard has broken this down pretty clinically but the ideologically addled will always assume they are the purveyors of truth, and those other people out there ..they are the propagandists.

The issue I see with the emotional manipulation bit is that the ideologue will naturally be triggered emotionally by anything he disagrees with, and therefore assume it's propaganda..even when it's not. I've witnessed this a million times. So emotion isn't always a reliable indicator of what's propaganda or not.

And the facts are infinitely malleable to the ideologue.. even the mild ideologue. We're all mild ideologues in some form or fashion. Everyone reading this, including me, thinks they are mostly the target of propaganda and rarely if ever its spreader.

re straw man, name calling, repetition..

Ultimately the issue is this: Truth is no longer our north star. It has been replaced by narrative. In a zero sum world, where truth doesn't really exist and power is the only motivation, the actors will propagandize knowingly but feel entirely justified in doing so to win this power game(and then shamelessly lie about playing the game at all). The first part of that is the postmodern influence (no real truth) and the second part (the zero sum thing and power being the exclusive motivator) is the Marxist influence. Taken separately one or the other can destroy countries, but together they can destroy the world. And that's what's happening.

When one side notices the other side is winning the public over with narrative, they might feel compelled to ditch their authenticity and begin playing the same cynical game out of a sense of survival. Then it becomes a narrative/propaganda war and no longer a truth war. It happens everywhere and with everyone to some degree or other. Even us, even this very forum. That's the circular trap the world is in now, both on the macro and micro level.

The degree to which the list in the OP can be useful or not depends entirely on how ideologically rigid we are from one issue to the next.. and how emotionally invested we are (often at the expense of reason).

Posted by shaberon (here)
It has nothing to do with argumentative techniques such as factual content or emotional appeal. That, perhaps, summarizes most writing styles, which I at least would assign negative value.

You'd assign negative value to factual content?

[Mike Gorman]

This is the whole point isn't it, to adopt a specific position & develop an opinion logically results in us supporting a specific set of ideas: therefore nobody can claim to be pure!
It is the oldest conundrum in our most ancient of intercourse. Avi Loeb in his most recdent of little essays on his Medium account put this remarkably well, in my estimation:

"The human spirit is superior to artificial intelligence (AI) in its willingness to take risks and explore new territories of knowledge that are not restricted to past training data sets."

Information, & expressed opinions only become 'Propaganda' when they are presented as being unassailable authoritative declarations of objective fact, this is to me is the essential difference.
This is a huge subject & I have not really confronted it in its entire scope.

[Bill Ryan]

I'm daring to post this here — as (even on my own forum! ) I suspect that if I post it on any of the threads specifically about China I might get trolled. (I do know this is semi-off topic... but I'd suggest it may be fairly relevant.)

The Truth About China You’re Not Being Told

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HPz36b3ll8M

[Mike]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I'm daring to post this here — as (even on my own forum! ) I suspect that if I post it on any of the threads specifically about China I might get trolled. (I do know this is semi-off topic... but I'd suggest it may be fairly relevant.)

The Truth About China You’re Not Being Told

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=HPz36b3ll8M

I won't troll you Bill for saying some good things about China. If i did troll you it would be for writing a world record 100000000 pro China posts consecutively with virtually no criticism at all. It's gotten a little strange, and I'm a little worried for you (if Bojancan is holding you hostage, blink twice!). I suspect Natalie will be along to give you a hard time too lol

I got to about the 30 minute mark in the video. I think I get the gist. Modern China is not Maoist China; I know that. They're thriving economically; I know that too. So they've kinda managed to put some lipstick on Big Brother and fool a few Americans who travel there for vacations. I'd like to go there for a vacation too. But to live there? God no. Do I think we in the west should foster a good relationship with China? Absolutely.

I have no interest in demonizing China, but I'm allergic to pretending it's something it isn't. At the moment there is a battle for the world's soul, and while I may not know what the answers are exactly, I know what they aren't. And they're not censorship, surveillance, slavery, sweat shops, and authoritarianism. We've run the experiment in the 20th century; the debate is over. The results are in! We don't have to rehash this one. It's like debating the flat earth almost.

[rgray222]

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
It's easy to jump from having a feeling about something to becoming addicted to the rush of dopamine that fanaticism engenders. It starts out fairly innocently but before you know it, you can become a monster.

And after years of living in the realm of podcasts or forums devoted to a singular point of view, your thoughts and emotions have worn paths in your brain that eventually become deep trenches.

I know when I'm hooped. If someone is literally entrenched, I move on. And podcasts, like Meidas Touch, that I may be philosophically aligned with, but who get minor facts wrong, for bait, I no longer watch.

Could not agree more. Happy to see you understand propaganda in and out. So easy and in few sentences. I am wondering why most people do not see it.

Those are great points, and I think the answer to your question is that many people see the content they're posting as persuasion or they actually see it as propaganda, and they don't care. The line between persuasion and propaganda can get extremely thin. It comes down to looking at intent, honesty and choice.

On a forum, even on Avalon, many political posts are clearly attempts to influence others to adopt a particular point of view. People often feel so strongly about their beliefs that they are willing to share questionable material, or even information they suspect is not entirely true, because it powerfully reinforces the message they want to send. That's how and when an attempt at persuasion crosses over the fine line to propaganda.

Over the years, this forum has arguably taken on a more political tone, and that is where beliefs tend to become deeply entrenched. I am not just talking about political parties, but about broader political ideologies and economic systems, so the shift toward politics is not necessarily bad, but it is extremely contentious. When you get into those topics, it becomes, in my view, almost mandatory to check the facts before posting, because politics is saturated with propaganda, especially from sources that are supposedly reputable. When it comes to war and politics, information is powerful, and propaganda is currency.

[AutumnW]

I have little love for China, after witnessing what the mainland Chinese have done to the real estate (and fentanyl) market in Canada. Corrupt officials in the provincial governments and the federal government turned their back on the problems and told us we were "racist" when we complained.

But here's the thing, and it's confusing. I don't know if the Chinese government, under Xi, is at all responsible. It might be quite the contrary. At least some of the mainland Chinese who lied their way into Canada, were trying to escape legal prosecution in China and Trudeau refused to repatriate them, when Xi requested their return. Why? Because they faced the death penalty if they were sent back. So, who is to blame? I don't hate Trudeau either (though he's a goofball)

Anyway, the Chinese are ruthless businessmen and women. Their energy is breathtaking and they brains to burn. I don't doubt that, as long as they are able to keep corruption at a manageable level, they will totally displace Europe and America as modern powerhouses.

The US, MIKE, has run an experiment in hypocrisy, more than anything else. They have always had a fascist undercurrent that was foisted on the world through gruesome wars and torture of civilians and labor organizers in South America (for example) With Trump, you're seeing that will to power, (rather than fairness and the rule of law) come home. I'll describe, in another thread, modern slavery in the US; surveillance, sweat shops (literally Amazon fulfillment centers, speaking of sweat) and censorship. Authoritarianism? Too many current examples to cite here.

Very few people, very few Americans consider the US a democratic republic, at this time.

[onawah]

Nope, I'm just not going there...

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I'm daring to post this here — as (even on my own forum! ) I suspect that if I post it on any of the threads specifically about China I might get trolled. (I do know this is semi-off topic... but I'd suggest it may be fairly relevant.)

The Truth About China You’re Not Being Told

I won't troll you Bill for saying some good things about China. If i did troll you it would be for writing a world record 100000000 pro China posts consecutively with virtually no criticism at all. It's gotten a little strange, and I'm a little worried for you (if Bojancan is holding you hostage, blink twice!). I suspect Natalie will be along to give you a hard time too lol

[AutumnW]

Posted by rgray222 (here)

Posted by Flash (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
It's easy to jump from having a feeling about something to becoming addicted to the rush of dopamine that fanaticism engenders. It starts out fairly innocently but before you know it, you can become a monster.

And after years of living in the realm of podcasts or forums devoted to a singular point of view, your thoughts and emotions have worn paths in your brain that eventually become deep trenches.

I know when I'm hooped. If someone is literally entrenched, I move on. And podcasts, like Meidas Touch, that I may be philosophically aligned with, but who get minor facts wrong, for bait, I no longer watch.

Could not agree more. Happy to see you understand propaganda in and out. So easy and in few sentences. I am wondering why most people do not see it.

Those are great points, and I think the answer to your question is that many people see the content they're posting as persuasion or they actually see it as propaganda, and they don't care. The line between persuasion and propaganda can get extremely thin. It comes down to looking at intent, honesty and choice.

On a forum, even on Avalon, many political posts are clearly attempts to influence others to adopt a particular point of view. People often feel so strongly about their beliefs that they are willing to share questionable material, or even information they suspect is not entirely true, because it powerfully reinforces the message they want to send. That's how and when an attempt at persuasion crosses over the fine line to propaganda.

Over the years, this forum has arguably taken on a more political tone, and that is where beliefs tend to become deeply entrenched. I am not just talking about political parties, but about broader political ideologies and economic systems, so the shift toward politics is not necessarily bad, but it is extremely contentious. When you get into those topics, it becomes, in my view, almost mandatory to check the facts before posting, because politics is saturated with propaganda, especially from sources that are supposedly reputable. When it comes to war and politics, information is powerful, and propaganda is currency.

All good points, particularly the line between persuasion and propaganda being pretty blurry. I guess it has to do with whether a person believes, or not, in what they are disseminating, proposing, spreading. I feel most average people, believe to some degree or another in the ideas they are advancing. The ones who use propaganda as a self advancing tool are people like Musk.

[Violet3]

I tend to take the view that whatever the msm wants you to believe, the opposite is likely to be more accurate. That gave me an interest in China, and I am keen to visit and see for myself if I can ever get there. Honestly, the 'west' is so morally bankrupt, and I particularly want to highlight that my own country is a great example, that it is hard to point the finger at others and feel better.