If you have felt outrage before would you care to describe it?

[petra]

Hi. For me, outrage was like “seeing red”. I always thought it was a figure of speech but no.. I saw the actual color red. It was as if all of time converged into that one moment, there just are no words to describe and I would really like to hear other people’s interpretations. Feel free to include why but you don’t have to..

For me, outrage happened when I realized there was alien involvement with CPS taking away custody of my child. It took them FIVE years to win him.

There was a point where I just had to concede. There was no point in continuing fighting. It was rigged and they scammed me. It took a while to get over it too. Looking back on it.. my biggest mistake was trusting them, which contributed to my “trust no one” mentality.

Edit: By they, I mean CPS, not aliens. I wasn’t outraged by CPS.. though you think I would be.. I was mostly just confused. It’s the aliens I was outraged at, just so I’m being clear

[thepainterdoug]

Petra before i comment on the thing that you went through, can you define what you mean by aliens ?

[petra]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
Petra before i comment on the thing that you went through, can you define what you mean by aliens ?

The type of things in Eve Lorgens book Alien Love Bite
The level of orchestration is just.. wild

[petra]

As much as I love talking about my experiences let’s not forget the point of the thread.

How do you describe outrage to someone who’s never felt it before?

[JackMcThorn]

It was the summer of 2oo1, and I was 25 years old, 1/2 a life ago. I had just got home on a Sunday from a week-end motorcycle trip that my wife at the time did not attend with me. I was eager to be home and to see her. The problem I will not describe because I don't want to see it in print. But when I saw her, something was wrong and she wouldn't tell me what happened. I turned around and grabbed the doorknob to the man door on the garage and slammed the door so hard it nearly came off its hinges. [while indeed seeing red...---I think it was an alcohol related incident] I then went into the garage and smoked cigarettes for 3o minutes trying to calm down. She went and stayed at her mother's for a while. We were hitched in '97 and divorced in '07 and this event hurt us. She never told me what happened and I never forgot it. Including this incident, in those 1o or so years we only had 3 arguments. I remember them precisely. People thought we would go the distance. It really is sad what happens sometimes. I wish she would have just been honest with me.

But rage can be very real. Especially when a loved one is affected. It can take you over and you must isolate yourself and get your bearings back lest you do something you might regret.

[petra]

Wow thanks Jack. “Take you over” is really apt.. and isolate yourself is such good advice

I did a lot of yelling but I was yelling at God. I yelled so much I couldn’t speak for a while

[shaberon]

I tend to be picky about the way words are used, and so I would tend to take outrage as based on something outside me, like an uncomfortably large list of news items, or, this, as recently said in the Inflation thread:

Milk, eggs, produce, and real meat. The prices for these are outrageous...

If it is something that directly affects me in my field of experience, I would just call it rage.

I'm not quite sure I can describe it, because it is its own thing unlike anything else. I'm not sure I could describe juniper smoke, or even water for that matter. To do this seems to require a comparison, such as today we found a pan of cantaloupe that had apparently fermented, and described it by saying hey, this smells like yogurt.

To make examples, if I compare myself to other people, I have heard that anger makes them lose bodily control and something violent happens kind of on its own. I can't actually say that's happened to me, except, maybe, one time which I'll get back to.

Instead, the last time I personally had something that could be called a fit of rage, it was actually really skilled and meticulously controlled. I banished a wendigo and pacified a ghost.

The price of me doing this is quite unfortunate, or misfortunate, or fortune-less. Horrible results. But the bolt of rage flew away, it did what it was supposed to do.

I can only think of one time I got so mad so quickly that I would hit someone.

My boss.

What happened was my girlfriend at the time had showed up and we were talking for a few minutes. Shortly after that, I went over to where he was and what he said to me:


Is that the heiffer you're pokin'?


I found my elbow flying towards where his glasses meet on the bridge of the nose, and I had to use my other hand to grab that arm and pull me in a circle, so I actually hit him in the chest, at enough of an angle that it mostly bounced off, although it still knocked him a few steps back.

That was the ghost. Her.

[petra]

Wow shaberon. That reminds me of another lesson I learned. “Sometimes it’s wrong NOT to punch someone”. I don’t think that’s what you meant to convey though. I never actually punched anybody but I can see why it would be necessary. I regret not punching one dude. He just wouldn’t shut up belittling me. He had glasses on

Very helpful answer thanks

Edit: Maybe it’s better I didn’t punch him. What would have happened next? My boyfriend was there too and did nothing. I lost some feelings for him that day

[petra]

Am I stupid? I didn't realize I could Google the question and get a decent answer. Google says..

"Outrage feels like a hot, sudden surge of intense anger combined with shock and disgust, sparked by a perceived wrong or unfairness."

That pretty much sums it up doesn't it. It's very... "hot", and I forgot about the disgust

[shaberon]

It's difficult and complex.

Unfortunately, it's very common in particular locations.

Like when I had that outburst at home, it had been after two years of unemployment, and I was stuck in the same yard every day. And at that point, we acquired another vehicle and I was like "just let me work".

I found my way to a Greek place that I was highly interested in. As soon as I started, it deflated completely because the kitchen told me:


"We don't eat Greek food."


Huh? It was these Mexican guys who had been there seventeen years.

The only Greek thing I learned there was something that sounded like "esturiale malaka", which has nothing to do with food, it means "stupid American". That was the name for almost everyone who worked there.

I never really had problems with Mexicans or Latins of any kind, until then, with the self- proclaimed "machos".

That place was a sewer of the evil mouth.

The rule they gave me was "no gay sh!t".

I can't remember everything they said, but sometimes it would make me so mad I would start shaking. They were rude and hostile to everybody.

The one of them I whipped into shape by one day saying, "you know, the way you project all this homosexual stuff every day, worried someone or something is gay, that means nothing to us...I've never had a single thought like that...what it shows is that you are probably gay and afraid of it."

After that, he became more or less a normal person.

The third one was Puerto Rican and he was actually the worst. Belligerent. One of the women told him to shut up and he's like "you come and shut me up". I mean how macho is that to challenge some fifty year old woman to a fight. Pathetic. But constant.

One day he was talking to someone else, looked at me and said "He's afraid of women."

I started laughing, in fact cackling and howling, really loud and maniacal in front of a room full of people, until I was out of breath.

He never said anything to me again.

So, yes, simply smacking someone as a punishment may be a good idea. But I've found what works best and what I personally specialize in is public humiliation of adults in front of a peer group.


I suspect it may be an American phenomenon. There are a lot of places where *both* the public and the co-workers are frequently angry and mean.

I don't think you necessarily have the freedom or the right to go around running your mouth in a way that upsets everybody, not just me personally, but, that's your lifestyle, evil speech.

What I like even less is that it can be disguised in a polite tone. Sort of like an insinuation. Like the one I had on the phone a few weeks ago. She was trying to, politely, tell me about something that went wrong over an hour ago, which, obviously, there's nothing I can do about that. If you're not placing an order, there's nothing I can do about any other type of phone call, period. The fact of her being upset earlier came down on me, she said "Oh yes there is something you can do about it" and basically called me a racist. Then it was "I'm going to call the office that's over you and..." I said thank you and hung up on whatever she was still saying.

Well, we like to shed ourselves of angry vibes; you can build up immunity to a few things, but it's understandable that some things would make anyone mad. Eventually you need to figure out how to channel it, how to do something that maybe is not blind fury but a corrective action.

This is the root doctrine of all martial arts. The view is that when a fight happens, it's probably because someone is angry. That fighter is going to be tense, shaky, and lose their aim and exhaust themselves; we placidly stalk that moment and that's when we kill you.

Fortunately I've never had to take it to that level, but, that's what's called killer instinct, which they told me I had a superior gift at when I was like thirteen. So I've always been this way, but, in experience it has always worked psychologically/verbally.

No, it doesn't totally purify my anger either. The issues are still there, mostly as outrage versus the status quo, or the situation, or the cumulative acts of others outside my immediate field of view. That's what I mean when I say I would rather post on Buddhism and a few similar topics, but, this year, particularly, blew up to an unacceptable level of the warlike nature of my countrymen.

When they want to proudly display there are like a hundred million of them that cannot be lived with, we have this deep-seeded, ongoing clash that certainly won't go away on its own, or by wishing it to. It's like they're donating me a fit of rage that would otherwise not be there. Now it is permanent.

If they can be knocked out of power so that nothing like that ever happens again, and, that attitude is basically silent to these ears, then, fine, whatever. If this keeps happening, only bad things will come out of it. It would be a mistake to assume I care about you because you are American; to me, you are probably something that ought to be washed away.

I have to live in an existential conflict with flames of anger waiting to erupt at any moment.

In actuality, it's the same conflict that has been passed down through my ancestry since the 1200s. In slightly different terms, but, when considered as one group of people against another, I think that would be closer to it.

The only thing about me is I have figured out how to re-direct those energies so I can unload them out of my mind, and react only in certain limited situations like a hunter. Without this resolve, the childhood mischief I was into, could easily have developed into serious crime, but so far I have never hurt anyone. Not even on the level of an unnecessarily rude comment tossed out for entertainment purposes. So I'd like to point out the huge gulf between starting something and eventually responding to it. Are these not two black and white personality types?

[petra]

Posted by shaberon (here)

The third one was Puerto Rican and he was actually the worst. Belligerent. One of the women told him to shut up and he's like "you come and shut me up". I mean how macho is that to challenge some fifty year old woman to a fight. Pathetic. But constant.

One day he was talking to someone else, looked at me and said "He's afraid of women."

I started laughing, in fact cackling and howling, really loud and maniacal in front of a room full of people, until I was out of breath.

He never said anything to me again.

Cackling is not nice! Just joking. I am glad you got a good laugh, I have had a few of those and it can feel like you are dying

I've cackled a few times before too. Maniacally It really makes you feel evil. That's really funny, thanks for sharing

Posted by shaberon (here)
So, yes, simply smacking someone as a punishment may be a good idea. But I've found what works best and what I personally specialize in is public humiliation of adults in front of a peer group.

You're savage, shaberon. I missed you when I was on sabbatical. You seem very strong willed, and I couldn't help but think of you when I thought about having a non-religious doctor

[shaberon]

Posted by petra (here)
You're savage, shaberon. I missed you when I was on sabbatical. You seem very strong willed, and I couldn't help but think of you when I thought about having a non-religious doctor

That's right.

It's an oil-and-water kind of thing. Around groups that are normal/intelligent/courteous, I don't see where I've ever caused a problem, in fact chances are I'll be seen as more of a shepherd-like guide. For instance when I moved to this last place and took the latest job, the first feedback I got was:


Thank you, because that's why I don't come to this thing, it's so unfriendly.


That's what I mean by "up", and I'm only saying I might be better than average about it because of plenty of examples like that one.

Outside of that is only madness and death, from which I will definitely protect myself and others, which may have to be described as rude, angry, or even violent.

These days, I usually just get a rude remark once in a while. The last two jobs I had at what I call "the plantation" led to, I think, me almost getting into more individual fights than I have in my whole life. If I was actually from there, there is no way I could have developed the control that I have, I probably would have really done something to somebody. In fact, it had the first mass shooting that we had ever heard of, which was 100% emotional, a guy was mad at his girlfriend and went in where she worked, and, I'm not sure if he hit her, but he took out several people.

From what I can recall, that was literally the first time we had heard of anything like that.

I lived in the area, and I got a wendigo and a couple of hostile workplaces.

[petra]

I once met a guy who told me he had his nose broken four times. I immediately knew that man was a smartass, because I know he didn’t break his nose from walking into doors. It was from being punched

I love smartasses

[thepainterdoug]

I am outraged whenever i hear, know of scammers and fraudsters who dont give a **** how damaging their scams are on others. The people coming to the USA for the sole purpose of setting up shop to scam and con the system, the programs designed to help others, the elderly , children , the disabled and so on.

And I am beyond outraged about the abuse of children, sexual or otherwise who give no thought of the damage they are causing to the well being and future of these little kids.

All this being said, I have learned thru the extensive study of NDE people who crossed over and returned to tell us all that all is as it should be. This is a very hard concept to grasp. I have come to this thought and way of dealing with it

We are actors playing parts. All of us. And as with watching a movie or a play, I can despise the part that actor is playing , while stepping back to say I do not hate the actor. This has put things in order for me.

[petra]

Oh my. Yeah I certainly don’t think all is as it should be..
It’s like something went wrong somewhere and I feel like we need a Version 2

Scams really get me too. I wanted to kill all the rapists but then I calmed down. Outrage kind of makes you feel murderous

Child molesters are complicated. My brother had those tendencies and sought help for it. He knew it was wrong and I think it’s like “fake feelings” people get. It’s not his fault and he never acted on any of them

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
I am outraged whenever i hear, know of scammers and fraudsters who dont give a **** how damaging their scams are on others. The people coming to the USA for the sole purpose of setting up shop to scam and con the system, the programs designed to help others, the elderly , children , the disabled and so on.

And I am beyond outraged about the abuse of children, sexual or otherwise who give no thought of the damage they are causing to the well being and future of these little kids.

All this being said, I have learned thru the extensive study of NDE people who crossed over and returned to tell us all that all is as it should be. This is a very hard concept to grasp. I have come to this thought and way of dealing with it

We are actors playing parts. All of us. And as with watching a movie or a play, I can despise the part that actor is playing , while stepping back to say I do not hate the actor. This has put things in order for me.

[shaberon]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
I am outraged whenever i hear, know of scammers and fraudsters who dont give a **** how damaging their scams are on others. The people coming to the USA for the sole purpose of setting up shop to scam and con the system, the programs designed to help others, the elderly , children , the disabled and so on.

That's done by a considerable quantity of Americans.

One such example is a kid who is one person's child one year, and someone else's the next. They do this to pump up their tax returns. In theory, you can do it, in the sense that if you really do become the primary caretaker, you get the benefit; but often it is just a lie.

We have a whole swath who believes it is ok to steal from the workplace -- it deserves theft because you have been oppressed. I don't deal with tax returns, but I do find these people from time to time. And not just this, but, for many reasons, common people tend to be a den of thieves. Of course, one major contributing factor is drugs.

Now we kill fishermen because Americans love cocaine, for example.

You can't have a War on Drugs like you can't have a War on Terror. This is sick and false, but they are something like national paradigms.

Both speed and opiates are derivatives of the war industry, one to prop you up on guard, the other to deal with the consequences. Morphine addiction was bandied about after the War of Northern Aggression, particularly to the northerners themselves.

I might tend to say that scams represent most of what we experience these days, whether the big ones of Uncle Scam, or the petty ones of devious individuals. And the fact that just because something is legal has nothing to do with whether it is a moral crime.

One of the worst ones of those is foster parenting.

It can be challenging to witness these things and try to prevent yourself from being consumed by hate. That may be all we can accomplish in this lifetime.

[petra]

Have I ever done anything that outraged anybody else?

I guess I should just confess that yes, I invaded people’s privacy. Many times. Some were more pissed off than others. What did I learn? Well, I learned if I ever do it again.. which I probably won’t.. DON’T admit to it

[thepainterdoug]

shaberon/ yes . scammers and fraudsters and dishonest people come in all stripes from all over the world. In this case regarding my comment, Im directing it to the people who have learned to do this and come here and carry it out in USA. You can apply your rage to whomever. It doesnt matter.
It doesnt forgive the people I am adressing.

Petra
I agree with you. The comment= everything is as it should be, I would have never have made some years ago. But as hard a concept as it is, it holds up for me at this point in my life. And it bothers the **** out of me to know it

regarding your brother, I understand. they are feelings.
I have a lot of " feelings" they dont matter either. Putting them into action is what matters. Putting them into action at the peril of the victim is what matters.
Self control a sense of right and wrong and a sense of measure, adults should learn

[shaberon]

Posted by petra (here)
I once met a guy who told me he had his nose broken four times. I immediately knew that man was a smartass, because I know he didn’t break his nose from walking into doors. It was from being punched

I had to think about this for a while.

I've been hit in the nose a fair few times, although I don't think it was actually broken, meaning you have to re-align the tip and possibly tape it in place.

The first one was something like a smart remark, being about eight or nine at the time. It was playing outside with a group, and one of them slipped and fell in a mud puddle. I gave him a hand up, and I just can't remember if I said something stupid or dropped him back in the puddle. But it was one of those typical minor insults that...we did all the time at that age. Suddenly he came up swinging at me and clocked me right in the nose. And he kept going. He would have battered it to a pulp, except I veered my head from side to side so he ineffectively hit me on the cheekbones. I punched him in the ribs until he fell back in the puddle. I remember it ending that way. I just can't recall whatever it was that deserved me being hit in the first place. Something rude but minor.

Nothing about that made me angry, I was more confused about why it happened than anything.

The rest of them were all in sparring matches, enough to thump you and make you blink, but not damaging.

Until the last one. It was unfair. I was in a competition and the referee said stop so I stopped. My opponent did not. He nailed me quite hard. It may have been painful, but, I was oblivious about that, and I didn't get angry either. I just got ready to go again.

Then I heard splat!

You can be sure you're bleeding profusely when you hear it hit the floor.

"Profuse" in this case turned out to be six hours.

So I don't really have the normal guy thing about getting in a lot of fights, not because I backed down from anything, but more from the lack of any reason for me and anyone to be punching anybody.

The only thing I can even think of was when a girl took my bicycle and launched it out in the lake. I said something to her and chased her around in a big circle and she just stopped, turned around, and punched me. Then she did it again. Then she was beating on me like a punching bag. I was maybe an eleven or twelve year old tadpole, and this was a big fifteen year old farm girl and she was actually pretty strong. I wasn't angry, or afraid, or anything, because I was processing the discovery that I couldn't hit a girl.

Then she threw me in the lake.

It's an inverse relationship, because the things that make us mad are usually stuff you have to live with, and you can't just hit someone or do anything really, or you wouldn't be mad.

And so I suppose actual violence is like a sidebar subject. I'm saying this from the point of view of someone who has never, for example, been stuck in a house with a violent person, or any other reason that puts you in their environment. I've simply avoided that. Many others have not.

Instead, without a trace of anger, ever, I have suppressed those violent people many times. That's basically towards any random violence I see around me. If something happens, chances are I am going to go at the dominant one and take the action out of them. So far, I haven't had to punch them in the nose or anything like that, it's just restraint.

And yet we live with psychological forms of anger almost perpetually. I just did that. Why can't I have a good day? I, personally, can, but the world won't let me. Its inhabitants tell me to, and that doesn't work. It's not an option. And in this vein of thinking, I am the one who is probably way off balance in an unusual way, just like someone who has been isolated and abused has experienced something kind of unusual that I can't pretend to compare to.

Psychological anger is like a hydra that keeps regrowing its heads. We are very nearly delicate in our vulnerability to it.

[petra]

This is fascinating. Being a very small girl, I don’t have much experience with violence.

I was slapped once and I deserved it. A girl on the bus dumped perfume on me so I took her by the hair and slammed her head into the window. She left me alone after that. She was a bit younger. Not much later her big sister came along and slapped me. I went to the bathroom and I could see the hand print on my face.

I’ve tried to kick guys in the nuts but they saw it coming.

I had another guy hold my two wrists together with one hand. He was like “oh no you don’t”