Fauci - A RICO question...

[scotslad]

Watching Dr Fauci's recent Senate appearance got me thinking about a broader legal question rather than the politics.

Looking at it purely from a legal perspective, and from outside the USA, I find myself wondering how RICO legislation would apply if prosecutors believed they had evidence of a coordinated criminal enterprise operating within a government organisation.

If prosecutors believed they had evidence that an organisation operated as a criminal enterprise, and could prove that individual members knowingly participated in qualifying criminal acts, could RICO legislation theoretically apply to government officials and employees in the same way it has been applied in other contexts?

If investigators believed there were contemporaneous records, internal communications, grant documentation or personal diaries that materially contradicted public statements, how significant could that evidence be in a RICO prosecution, assuming it was authentic and admissible?

If one individual had received a presidential pardon, would that prevent prosecutors pursuing other members of the organisation if there were sufficient evidence against them?

Would the scale of the alleged consequences have any bearing on a RICO prosecution, or would the case still stand or fall solely on proving the statutory elements and qualifying predicate offences?

Or would any such prosecution require an exceptionally high evidential threshold, well beyond allegations, disputed policy decisions or conflicting accounts?

I'm interested in the legal principles, not the personalities.

At what point does leadership become legal responsibility?

And if RICO is designed to investigate and prosecute criminal enterprises rather than isolated individuals, could such an investigation, if justified by the evidence, ultimately expose a much wider picture than the conduct of any one person?

Just wondering.

[JackMcThorn]

RICO cannot be used against the u.s. federal government or agencies due to constitutional immunity.

Federal employees are immune from liability. Also State Law cannot supersede Federal Law.

Of course the federal government is safe from its own laws. Of course it is.

[Satori]

Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
RICO cannot be used against the u.s. federal government or agencies due to constitutional immunity.

Federal employees are immune from liability. Also State Law cannot supersede Federal Law.

Of course the federal government is safe from its own laws. Of course it is.

RICO is a federal law that is directed at a “person”, (and persons) which is defined in the statute, engaged in a pattern of criminal or civil racketeering. The crimes or civil wrongs are listed in the statute and the term pattern of racketeering, or words to that effect, is also defined. Many states have a counterpart to RICO.

Federal agencies and departments are not subject to charges under RICO because they are not a “person” as defined in the statute.

Federal employees are not immune from suit. Look up Bivens v Six Unknown Named Agents. Commonly called a Biven’s action.

When one sues the federal government one does not sue the federal agency or department involved per se. One sues the individuals in the federal agency etc…. who carried out the wrongful acts. They are sued in their official or individual capacity, or both. Federal and state employees generally have what is called qualified immunity. Only certain government employees have absolute immunity. E.g., a federal judge.

However, immunity applies only to activities that are carried out within the scope and course of their duties. Any activity that is not within the scope and course of employment and the lawful discharge of one’s duties is not cloaked with any immunity. Qualified or absolute.

Mass murder is not within the scope and course of any state or federal employee’s lawful and legitimate duties. Therefore, no immunity exists.

[JackMcThorn]

Posted by Satori (here)

Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
RICO cannot be used against the u.s. federal government or agencies due to constitutional immunity.

Federal employees are immune from liability. Also State Law cannot supersede Federal Law.

Of course the federal government is safe from its own laws. Of course it is.

RICO is a federal law that is directed at a “person”, (and persons) which is defined in the statute, engaged in a pattern of criminal or civil racketeering. The crimes or civil wrongs are listed in the statute and the term pattern of racketeering, or words to that effect, is also defined. Many states have a counterpart to RICO.

Federal agencies and departments are not subject to charges under RICO because they are not a “person” as defined in the statute.

Federal employees are not immune from suit. Look up Bivens v Six Unknown Named Agents. Commonly called a Biven’s action.

When one sues the federal government one does not sue the federal agency or department involved per se. One sues the individuals in the federal agency etc…. who carried out the wrongful acts. They are sued in their official or individual capacity, or both. Federal and state employees generally have what is called qualified immunity. Only certain government employees have absolute immunity. E.g., a federal judge.

However, immunity applies only to activities that are carried out within the scope and course of their duties. Any activity that is not within the scope and course of employment and the lawful discharge of one’s duties is not cloaked with any immunity. Qualified or absolute.

Mass murder is not within the scope and course of any state or federal employee’s lawful and legitimate duties. Therefore, no immunity exists.

The federal government is indeed not a person. State counterpart to RICO cannot affect a federal employee. I didn't say they were immune from lawsuits, which is civil and likely directed at a person not an entity or agency. Civil suits are not criminal law.

I am not a lawyer but the jist of my missive is relevant.

[shaberon]

Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
The federal government is indeed not a person. State counterpart to RICO cannot affect a federal employee.

The government is not federal, that's just it's name.

"That" government is a sovereign, and, the states are sovereigns.

Municipalities are corporations. A corporation is a legal person.

So, I think the gist is correct, there isn't legal action to be taken against those governments, so the closest thing is action against individuals.

Despite that, I would be a major fan of RICO applied to Big Pharma companies in the case of Covid, or insider trading over the current Iran shenanigans which is the same as 9/11 anyway. I can only recommend or suggest this; I can't do it. I wish I did have a piece of slam dunk evidence on something. But I don't. Mass murders all over the place. Unaccountable.

The Food and Drug Administration was created for a specific reason: too many dead rats in grain silos. That is, corporate producers paid zero attention to an obvious health hazard, and so I'm going to agree there should be oversight, inspections, etc.; yet its progress over time is not exactly wholesome.

Thinking in those terms, I basically work for a mass murderer along the lines of clear violations of the most basic things about sanitization. I had hoped it would be wiped off the face of the earth, but, apparently, people love murderers.

[Satori]

Posted by shaberon (here)

Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
The federal government is indeed not a person. State counterpart to RICO cannot affect a federal employee.

The government is not federal, that's just it's name.

"That" government is a sovereign, and, the states are sovereigns.

Municipalities are corporations. A corporation is a legal person.

So, I think the gist is correct, there isn't legal action to be taken against those governments, so the closest thing is action against individuals.

Despite that, I would be a major fan of RICO applied to Big Pharma companies in the case of Covid, or insider trading over the current Iran shenanigans which is the same as 9/11 anyway. I can only recommend or suggest this; I can't do it. I wish I did have a piece of slam dunk evidence on something. But I don't. Mass murders all over the place. Unaccountable.

The Food and Drug Administration was created for a specific reason: too many dead rats in grain silos. That is, corporate producers paid zero attention to an obvious health hazard, and so I'm going to agree there should be oversight, inspections, etc.; yet its progress over time is not exactly wholesome.

Thinking in those terms, I basically work for a mass murderer along the lines of clear violations of the most basic things about sanitization. I had hoped it would be wiped off the face of the earth, but, apparently, people love murderers.

The good news is that RICO does apply to corporations, partnerships and other entities created by law. These entities meet the definition of "person" under the statute.

Although a corporation per se cannot go to prison, it can be dissolved and its assets taken to make restitution to its victims and for other purposes. And, you can put the individuals who run the corporation in prison and also disgorge them of their ill-gotten gain and make restitution.