Reincarnation - alternative views

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by Hawkwind (here)
(Sorry if this has gotten off topic. Suggest we either take this to PMs or start a new thread if it seems useful to discuss further.)

Please, don't be so literal. You are still very much on-topic, for this business of "knowing" is very much the foundation of believing in reincarnation. It is the basis of all beliefs, whether those beliefs are true or not.

I don't want to see just like-minded thinkers in this thread. I want to see all thinkers.

Great comments from both you and Anthony! Teach me more.

[shiva777]

when you REMEMBER that everything happens at ONCE..no time...then you realise that all these speculations,distractions and self- aggrandising "reincarnational stories", that so many are so eager to spread,are pretty trivial....every tom,dick,harry and bill claims to have been "arthur" or akhenaten or whomever,so what?..

ask yourselves,for what reason do people feel the need to tell others about their POSSIBLE past incarnations..it's usually done to influence others perceptions of them and to boost their own ego's

if it helps somebody to know their past life issues and deal with them then that is a personal issue,no need to tell others about the specifics..i.e..who you believe you were etc.

you are who you are now and at the same time you are an Avatar God being(remember... no-time)..so don't be impressed or derailed by POSSIBLE future or past "you's" or who other people claim to have been..you,EVERYBODY ,has been and have been both the most unaware entity and the most aware entity possible at ALL TIMES...when you fully awaken you will realise you are that now and eternally

[aroundthetable]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Game = a purposeful activity with team-mates and/or resources/assets on one's side, and factors/circumstances (or groups, or people) operating against you.

Oh, well, of course! If that's the definition we are working with, then I agree with you that life is a game! That wasn't my working definition for "game", which was an amusing, trivial activity of no real importance. Like hide-and-seek on a balmy Georgia evening with all your cousins at Grandma's house.... Now, that's what I call a game!

Just another instance of using the exact same language and neither one understanding a word the other is writing! I hate it when that happens!

I believe your definition of a game is perfectly correct. With a game the rules are clear and noone gets hurt. If Bill believes life is a game that is his right.

[king anthony]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
...if it helps somebody to know their past life issues and deal with them then that is a personal issue...

If I may add; if these things were meant to be recalled on to aid, then they would have been made easier to reflect on.

[shiva777]

Posted by king anthony (here)

Posted by shiva777 (here)
...if it helps somebody to know their past life issues and deal with them then that is a personal issue...

If I may add; if these things were meant to be recalled on to aid, then they would have been made easier to reflect on.

if you resonate with the idea that our DNA has been messed with by negative entities ,then you don't think along those lines Anthony

[shiva777]

Just another instance of using the exact same language and neither one understanding a word the other is writing! I hate it when that happens![/QUOTE]

Aroundthetable wrote.."I believe your definition of a game is perfectly correct. With a game the rules are clear and noone gets hurt. If Bill believes life is a game that is his right.[/QUOTE]"

yeah,,,it's a hi-jacked "game"..the game, rules and the players abilities have been manipulated and distorted..I believe that originally the ONE who created this "game of life" did intend that the rules would be clear and no one would get hurt but there were some glitches in the matrix that was created...reincarnation as most people know it is NOT NATURAL..it is a result of spiritual architecture being manipulated so negative beings could recycle our energies and process unpleasant energies for them so they could survive...they distorted our DNA coding so we lost our abilities to connect to ETERNAL LIVING LIGHT/conciousness EASILY and hence could be easily controlled and manipulated and vampirised...for those interested in how the original intention of this "game of life" was sidetracked..read this,it's a very eye opening article

http://www.pfcn.net/Bulletins/Flaw%2...uly%202007.pdf

[king anthony]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
...if you resonate with the idea that our DNA has been messed with by negative entities ,then you don't think along those lines...

I am not sure the direction of your words, as my reply to your quote did not mention anything about 'negative entities'.

[truthseekerdan]

Remembrances of Lives Past - The New York Times (article)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/fa...PastLives.html

[Arrowwind]

I would like to note that no matter what time is and no matter if all things exist at once, we live according to a perception of linear time so our translations of memory of reincarnation is in linear form.

If it is not so you would not address this current life or even today in a linear fashion....you would not measure your day with a clock nor a year with a calendar.

You can have lots of high falluting ideas on what time is and all things being simultaneous, but you have not the capacity to prove it, nor are you currently living your life as though those ideas are true..

[Realeyes]

I saw this wonderful thread the other day and I would like to share with you how a past life has subtly influenced my immediate incarnation; how it was phenomenally healed and to expand upon ‘Soul bleed throughs’ and the greater healing of Self. Please pardon the length; it’s the shortest I could do without distorting it.

From birth I had conscious memory recalls of 4 past lives but grew up in a family unaware of such things so I kept my secret and confusion to myself. In one of these past lives I was an intelligent young Polish lad with hopes to pursue my passion of composing piano concertos. I also spoke fluently several languages. Around the age of 18 my life’s journey was disrupted with WW2, where I fled Poland hastily and joined up with the French Résistance where my fluency in the German language was put to good use. I was smuggled into Germany with false papers and pretended to be a German citizen but secretly was a part of a group that helped to smuggle out Jewish folk detained mainly from the Dachau concentration camp in the dead of night. It was a harrowing experience only being able to rescue a few on each sortie knowing that many I left behind would not be alive to rescue next time. Anyway, eventually I was caught, gruesomely tortured then shot amongst a standing line-up of dishevelled Jewish folk over what was to become our grave pit.

Back to this present incarnation, I am an English female and throughout my childhood when asleep I always dreamt/spoke in German. This is not my native language, nor have I ever learnt to speak German. I always wanted to learn to play the piano, but never got the opportunity. During my school years I refused adamantly to never attend any lessons that involved WW2 – they were seen as ‘tantrums’ and got me many black marks at school. I could not watch any film in connection to WW2 (and they have played many here in the UK) nor listen to the German language. I just want to point out I have no judgements towards any German people or the war; this was simply a Soul bleed through of another incarnation that in the background haunted me – it was irrational behaviour I had no control over.

I’ve been with my hubby for 21 years, he is half Polish and worked for a big German company ‘Heidelberg’ involving many work trips to Germany. I would pick him up from the airport and the moment the people would disembark many of them were German and just hearing their language would make my knees buckle, my head started swimming and the greatest survival urge to run and hide.

Then something extraordinary happened. In 1998, I was with a group of 26 people making the journey up Mount Sinai to witness the dawn rising. Most of our group took the camel ride in the blackness of night up the mountain, then walking the last part of the journey single file up a narrow path to the summit.

A most curious think happened that I can only think was a physical timeline jump. I was having a conversation with my new friend who was walking right in front of me, with most of the group walking in line behind me. My friend suddenly went silent and I repeated what I had just said; but the reply that came back was now in German! I carried on walking sensing something wasn’t right and listened intently to the conversations I was hearing ahead and behind me – they were all in German, not an English word to be heard. Somehow the English group had been replaced by a group of Germans! For me this was a nightmare turned real, being lost up a huge barren mountain in the darkness of night with a group of people I had no idea who they were and the effects their dear language had on me.

We reached a high ravine and an extremely strong gust of wind spun out of nowhere and literally swept me up off my feet towards the cliff edge where I would have surely met my death. Everything became slow motion as I floated in the air helpless. Suddenly a pair of strong arms grabbed my waist and prevented me tumbling to my death. In that moment there was an energy/frequency change all around me; it was as if I had just been bathed in a loving light although I saw no light. A very tall German lady was now speaking to me, asking if I was okay as she settled me back on my feet. Something in that magical moment had been healed deep within myself on a Soul level; her voice speaking in German sounded like a beautiful melody!

I walked with this German group for around another 10 minutes when I decided to stop and wait for my English group to arrive that I logically guessed must be behind us because the German party certainly walked a very quick pace. There was no sign of my English group; in the end I walked to the summit on my own to find a couple who had stayed in the tea hut for the night. I asked them where the German group had gone, but they shook their heads, I was the first person to arrive! In dribs and drabs my group finally arrived, each one of them had found themselves suddenly on their own around the same time as me – each with different stories and bizarre adventures.

I do not really know what happened that night on Mount Sinai but 26 people walking in a line suddenly in a blink all found them selves in a separate reality. For me, I bless this amazing healing experience. Today I have many dear German friends; my old Soul haunts are completely gone – my fragmentation healed.

I share this with you guys because even if we are not aware of past lives, somewhere in our daily lives unconsciously there will be attitudes within our make-up that are bleed throughs of unresolved stuff from our previous lives. I personally have not gone seeking my past lives – yet by observing my thoughts throughout the day or during certain events I have experienced, results in a ‘flash back memory recall’ of where I did something very similar in another lifetime.

IMHO everything I need to know about who I am is present in this incarnation/reality, I do not need to seek who I was before because who I was before, ‘I wear today’ – All is relevant in this Now moment. I know when I have seized the ‘ripe’ moment to go within and heal an attitude, if I am sincere, a grand healing takes place not only within myself here but this healing spreads and affects all the ‘me’s’ of the past who were also affected as ‘flashes’ of these past lives naturally flow through my mind during the healing process. I see all my lives as being simultaneous in a ‘Now moment’. In linear thinking we see a lifetime going from A – Z; yet out of Time, I perceive Time like a ‘spiral’ whereby certain lives can have a very similar frequency (possibly an alignment on the spiral) whereby we can experience sometimes ‘straddling’ between the two in our thoughts and decision making until a healing of the fragmentation is restored to ‘Onement’.

For me, the above personal story resulted because I had fragmented in a past life through trauma that bleed through into this one. I am very thankful that this fragmentation of Self has been healed. By seizing the ‘ripe’ moment when it appears and healing in this way I have naturally become aware of so many of my past lives that have taught me ‘why’ and ‘whom’ I am today. I share my personal wisdom that I have learnt with the intent that it might resonate with others understanding their own Soul-full journeys of Self.

[truthseekerdan]

Beautiful testimony, thank you Realeyes!

With love ~ Dan

[Arrowwind]

Posted by Realeyes (here)
I saw this wonderful thread the other day and I would like to share with you how a past life has subtly influenced my immediate incarnation; how it was phenomenally healed and to expand upon ‘Soul bleed throughs’ and the greater healing of Self. Please pardon the length; it’s the shortest I could do without distorting it.

You may want to put your story at this link, Realeyes.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ion-Story-Here

[Selene]

If I may, some comments on previous posts here: (And please see my post in the “Tell your Reincarnational Story” for my personal background on this topic. https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...041#post184041).

Manny, you asked:

Posted by Manny
... if this is the case what is our mission. there must be a reason us to keep returning.

and if we cannot remember the previous life or lives, then what is the point....

The point is, quite simply, that this life, this present moment, this Now is actually the sum total of all those previous lives. You are here now. And your present situation - right here, with all its problems and opportunities - as you are sitting at your terminal represents the sum total of all those previous experiences. Really.

So, being fully “here”, in the present, to fully appreciate your present life, is really all that you actually need to know about your past to function fully into the future. The details of “how you got here” don’t really matter. It’s really only of passing interest. Your life now is what matters

This is, of course, a more complex topic. But that will get you started.

Revere, you commented:

Posted by Revere
....So, my explanation (in progress) centers on the possibility of this information coming from the Information field or Akashic field that we live in. Is it possible that we experience information so direct from a previous life that we assume it is our own?

Yes, this does happen – these are generally felt as ‘vibes’ about a place or thing, but without any particular emotional involvement on your part.

The critical difference about a true reincarnational memory is the emotional charge that it carries. It is meaningful to you in an emotional way that can only involve your personal experience of the time or place. The memory can be fond, or fearful, repulsive or joyous. But it has a wholeness; it is unmistakably yours. A true reincarnational memory has an unshakeable emotional ‘ownership’ on your part.

And that is one of the reasons I always caution others about accepting at face value what anyone else – no matter how highly you may regard them or how well meaning they may be – might tell you about “your previous lives”. If their comments don’t resonate deeply with you at some “emotional recognition” level, let them pass. Trust yourself first. Trust your own inner recognition.

And Chicodoodoo added:

Posted by Chicodoodoo
.... So, how do we know we are not doing the exact same thing humans have been doing since the beginning -- making things up?

Cico, see my comments above: it’s the emotional recognition.

Per your interesting comment, King Anthony:

Posted by King Anthony
Bloodlines, which are 'genetic memory' (Lamarckian), relates to my post #11. The 'same specific template' can be used in the 'same specific bloodline', which would account for the examples expressed in your post. As well, 'templates' may not be exclusive to a bloodline.

The bloodline/genetic memory concept is an interesting one, except that I know from my own experience (~3,000 years of reincarnational memory) that the vast majority of my previous lives have had no bloodline/genetic relation to my present family’s bodies. While I have lived previous lives with certain family members in other times and places, in no case that I can recall have those lives been within my present genetic heredity. But the genetic component can, admittedly, vary case by case. Some individuals do indeed choose to reincarnate again and again within the same ethnic or familial lineage. There’s no ‘one size fits all’.

Cheers,

Selene

[king anthony]

Posted by Selene (here)
The bloodline/genetic memory concept is an interesting one... ...familial lineage. There’s no ‘one size fits all’.

Thank you for quoting my post; however, it appears you have only captured part of the whole of thought. I'm sure my PM will aid in clarifying the whole.

[Gone001]

Posted by shiva777 (here)
when you REMEMBER that everything happens at ONCE..no time...then you realise that all these speculations,distractions and self- aggrandising "reincarnational stories", that so many are so eager to spread,are pretty trivial....every tom,dick,harry and bill claims to have been "arthur" or akhenaten or whomever,so what?..

You know it's people like you that make people like me glad that we haven't spoken up in regards to our own stories. "speculations, distractions and self-aggrandising 'reincarnation stories', that so many are eager to spread are pretty trivial." are you aware of how ignorant that statement is? Who are you to say whats speculation or distraction when it comes to someones personal experiences? Who are you to call those people self- aggrandising (read your post back and remember the phrase 'pot calling the kettle black)? Who are you to say whats trivial?

Some people are interested in their pasts and feel they can learn from it, that's their choice. If this leads to spiritual or personal growth then it's neither trivial nor a distraction. The genetic/ bloodline memory thing is interesting but it doesn't fit IMHO. Time may not be real in the sense that that it's Saturday everywhere in our Universe but it has it's use's in regards to a measurement. In this dimension, in this density we perceive things in a linear fashion. We age... things don't stand still and we don't sit within one single moment. If I throw a ball through the air it moves from point A to point B. With this in mind how can the bloodline thing make sense? We would all have to be in our first lives stuck in some bizarre kind of limbo.

Also if we were remembering from our DNA and not our soul then we would know and remember EVERYTHING. Why you ask? Because DNA is everywhere not just in people. It's in the air, its in the water it's in our food. We are connected to everything. Technically we even breathe it in through the air which travels to the lungs into the blood stream. So if the genetic theory were in fact correct we would have a non stop influx of memories from the multitude of DNA we come in contact with every day, but we don't we only have gimpses (if we're lucky) into highly personal, emotional memories. This makes me suspect these memories are from our consciousness not our DNA or genetics.

On top of all this have you or King Anthony ever had any of these memories or are you just making assumptions about what other people are experiencing? We experience these things and we know what they are... we aren't stupid and you aren't some Messiah of truth and knowledge switching on the light in our dark rooms. KA I read your explanation of the 'sharing memories with others' theorem, thankyou for trying to explain but it doesn't logically fit for me (especially when I way in my own experiences). Also KA you started a thread stating your soul was 3000 https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...irst-Time-Here. How is this possible? If your in your 40's now and have had only one life where have you spent the rest of your time? Shiva I haven't seen you offer any kind of explanation I've only seen you try and discredit others sharing their stories for no visible cause. I have no issue with someone having an opinion but at least try and do it respectfully and intelligently.

Cheers,

Aldous

[Constance]

What about the idea that all time is simultaneous?

[Gone001]

Posted by Constance Neal (here)
What about the idea that all time is simultaneous?

Then how do things age?

[Constance]

Posted by Aldous (here)

Posted by Constance Neal (here)
What about the idea that all time is simultaneous?

Then how do things age?

That is a very good question

but what I actually asked Aldous, was "WHAT" people thought of the idea...I wasn't making a statement...

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by Selene (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo
.... So, how do we know we are not doing the exact same thing humans have been doing since the beginning -- making things up?

Cico, see my comments above: it’s the emotional recognition.

Emotional "recognition" is always the foundation for the persistence of made-up things (like the flat-earth belief, for example), and that's the flaw. Turning it into the justification for making things up is even more flawed.

[Icecold]

Posted by Constance Neal (here)
What about the idea that all time is simultaneous?

It is a distinct possibility Constance.

http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/rc2/hrc2-04.shtml

http://www.eliasforum.org/digests/ti...ultaneous.html

http://www.edwardrice.com/threads.html

Simultaneous Time
Definition
We’re spending more and more of our time in what Linda Stone calls “Continuous Partial Attention”, or “Presence Lite”. The idea of one’s presence being “sort of” there in many places, instead of completely there in one place. This could also be called simultaneous time.
Each browser tab has it's own time attached. The time of an SMS has it's own scale, vs. the time of reality. When the user is in many times and places at once without being adjacent territory without being in all of those places. Living is spread across many different distances. Games like Farmville have their own time. If one has 20 browser tabs open and is SMS'ing and sending text messages, and then switches back and forth between all of these things, then that person is only living in pieces of that reality at a time.
Side Effects
Simultaneous time results in continuous partial attention. It also causes social punctuation, as technosocial connectivity seeps into every part of social relations. The brain thinking differently when it has no inputs. When the mind is robbed of those moments of reflection (those abilities to compress like memories into like memories), then it loses the ability to free up space for other thoughts. This reduces one's ability to think, and as a result the brian as operating system suffers (the brain's ability to upgrade decreases). There is mental fragmentation. Not all of the thoughts one has in the brain are stored next to each other anymore.