Eating animal products will shut down your dna

[luciole]

Thanks Constance, this is a very very intersting thread, because it takes on so many issues!

I personnaly dont know enough about DNA to affirm or to refute this fact.

I have been a vegetarian for 20 years and I am still going on strong!!! , I sometimes eat dairy or eggs, it all depends, I tend to listen to my instinct, and eat what I feel that I should eat.
I can go without dairy for months, and indulge in a heavenly blue cheese.

As I am not surrounded by a lot of vegetarians, and haven't been since I first started this diet, I have been confronted with A LOT of issues about meat.

Eating is cultural, we inherit the cultural beliefs of food, from our parents and also from school.
The main belief is that meat, and dairy products are essential to our health and survival.
This belief is so strong that it creates very violent reactions, when confronted with opposite opinions!!

But then again, whe live in a hypocrite society: people buy a piece of meat wraped in cellophane paper, without ever realising that this was living being. And what if someone came over to their house to kill their pet dog to eat it's meat? They would cry murder!!!!

BUT THEN AGAIN...

I met some vegeterarians who were very narrow minded, and they were frustrated to not eat meat because of moral issues, so they would take out their frustrations by attacking meat eaters! Being with them wasn't much fun (by the way, one family i knew , had a teen, who would eat mc Donalds, and junk food in hidding!!!!) I also met some vegans who fed their kids meat and store bought cookies, chips , white sugar etc.. because they didn't wan't to impose their ideas on their kids!

I was vegetarian when pregnant, and vegetarian while breast feeding, and had NO problems with B12 and iron or what not, that again is a story to scare mothers. My daughter was vegetarian till 4 years old, she never had any health problems. I let her taste meat when she asked at the age of 4. I explained to her why her parents did not eat meat, but let her from time to time when eating, out taste some meat. She is now nine years old and has made her own decision to be a vegetarian.
This is my personnal experience. Am I right or wrong? I think that as parents we try to do the best we can!

I tend to think that it is very important to live according to one's own truth. Making the inside correspond with the outside.

I feel that I cannot eat meat, I cannot kill an animal, heck I can't kill a bug! I am in harmony with my decision, because I listen to my gut feeling,
I listen to my heart!


Ok I think I'm rambling on here, but Constance, you raise an intersting question not only about meat.

I think our DNA can be influenced by everything! Negative or positive feelings, what we think, how whe think, what we drink, what we eat, our environment, pollutionetc..

Pharmaceutical drugs probably mess around A LOT with DNA. Alcohol, cigarettes, pot, and other substances, also...

Oh and also, I was thinking that refined sugar, refined flour, additives in food....could possibly have a very bad effect on DNA.

Can all theese things shut down our DNA also?

What's your feeling about that?

p.s.Oh and you know, how about a thread on vegan cooking? I'm sure you and other avalonians must have great recipees to share!

[Snowbird]

Posted by DawgBone (here)
I feel sure that I would have switched to a vegetarian diet long ago if I was the one slaughtering the animals I ate. I bet you would too.

We get our meat nicely packaged in styrofoam trays, beautified with artificial dyes. Takes the edge off.

Yes, it definitely takes the edge off the violence and the suffering.

[DawgBone]

Posted by Maria Stade (here)

DawgBone
I feel sure that I would have switched to a vegetarian diet long ago if I was the one slaughtering the animals I ate. I bet you would too.

We get our meat nicely packaged in styrofoam trays, beautified with artificial dyes. Takes the edge off.

That is because the natrual bound to the nature is gone !

In my life animals and life and death has been natural so I would prefere to eat a animal that I know have hade a good life with love and affection.
And that it have been given the best food and have not been ill.

Nothing never dies all is energy it just transforms.

But nothing living on the planet have earned to suffer and have a life in pain and horror and stress maybe for many years !

Just sharing my way of seeing it !

Unless a person raises his own pigs and cows and chickens, the animals you eat these days have NOT had a good life or a humane death.

The modern day meat industry is enough to make a person stop eating completely.

Meat factories are an especially horrendous manifestation of conscience-free capitalism and the influence giant corporations have on our world.

[Maria Stade]

Siggy
I've often thought that we should all have a meat ration card / passport which shows which animals you've personally slaughtered, these being the ones that you're allowed to buy and consume. But then again this might be a little too NWO

Lol Siggy I must say that I have also hade the meat ration idea !
Maybe somthing for the future

[DawgBone]

Posted by siggy (here)

Posted by DawgBone (here)
I feel sure that I would have switched to a vegetarian diet long ago if I was the one slaughtering the animals I ate. I bet you would too.

We get our meat nicely packaged in styrofoam trays, beautified with artificial dyes. Takes the edge off.

I've often thought that we should all have a meat ration card / passport which shows which animals you've personally slaughtered, these being the ones that you're allowed to buy and consume. But then again this might be a little too NWO

The gals at PETA should hire you as a consultant!

:--)

[Maria Stade]

Posted by DawgBone (here)

Posted by Maria Stade (here)

DawgBone
I feel sure that I would have switched to a vegetarian diet long ago if I was the one slaughtering the animals I ate. I bet you would too.

We get our meat nicely packaged in styrofoam trays, beautified with artificial dyes. Takes the edge off.

That is because the natrual bound to the nature is gone !

In my life animals and life and death has been natural so I would prefere to eat a animal that I know have hade a good life with love and affection.
And that it have been given the best food and have not been ill.

Nothing never dies all is energy it just transforms.

But nothing living on the planet have earned to suffer and have a life in pain and horror and stress maybe for many years !

Just sharing my way of seeing it !

Unless a person raises his own pigs and cows and chickens, the animals you eat these days have NOT had a good life or a humane death.

The modern day meat industry is enough to make a person stop eating completely.

Meat factories are an especially horrendous manifestation of conscience-free capitalism and the influence giant corporations have on our world.

I would not say only meat industry it is the FOOD INDUSTRY !

There are lots of ekologoical farms in Sweden and the pressure of this kind of produkt has come from the consumer !

Many are growing their own food to the cows !

Spring and time for the animals to come out ! As you can see this is a big event all like to see when the animals comes out in the green !
PS dont know if they cows on the film eat ecological food in the winter.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=m-TKPXweutU

Cows taking a bath

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=z14jcCexudw

Happy pigs

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yaJjBlzBAmM

Private - pigs getting appels

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iX8cvBVVLwE

[siggy]

Posted by DawgBone (here)
Unless a person raises his own pigs and cows and chickens, the animals you eat these days have NOT had a good life or a humane death.

The modern day meat industry is enough to make a person stop eating completely.

Meat factories are an especially horrendous manifestation of conscience-free capitalism and the influence giant corporations have on our world.

I feel there is now a movement underway / developing with people becoming more & more aware about food provenance and welfare.
Many are now interested in growing / raising their own food one way or another.

Just hope its not too little too late with Codex A, GMO, etc trying to make such moves harder!

[DawgBone]

Posted by Maria Stade (here)
There are lots of ekologoical farms in Sweden and the pressure of this kind of produkt has come from the consumer !

Very interesting!

[Billy]

Posted by Constance Neal (here)

Posted by Inelia (here)
the optimum solution is to EAT AND DRINK NOTHING AT ALL.

Its me again...

Why is it optimal to eat and drink nothing at all?

What do you know about the energies and properties of food?

I am only at page 4 on this thread so this may have been mentioned ahead.

Are you speaking about the power of Fasting here Inelia. I began Fasting for two days a week for a 24hr period in 1985, sometimes 3days and the longest fast was 9days, in 1998 i decided to stop fasting only to realize that it was very much part of my life, fasting to me is praying with your body, and i have had many powerful spiritual experiences through meditation and fasting, I have not drank water for many years, only fruit juice. I was vegitarian for 20yrs but now I do eat meat now and then, but only localy grown or wild produce. I think everyone is different and some people require meat and some do not.

I do not agree that eating meat shuts down your DNA, But what i do know is that living life from a loving heart, with compassion as your expression AWAKENS your DNA.
Blessings

[Lion Monkey]

I am a vegan (but I eat honey) and have been on-off heading more that way for the last decade or more. It is a gradual process. I have found that it has been an important factor in supporting my spiritual growth. The occasional egg or bit of dairy makes it in sometimes through social circumstance, but not by choice (when working overseas etc). I will not eat meat again, after having helped kill and butcher a pig on a farm in Cuba. It felt utterly wrong at every level.

In the 8 limbs of yoga, the teachings of the Pradipika say that food is a sub-limb of one of those 8, not a main limb, on the path to enlightenment.

However, that was written a long time ago before most food available in the shops and the fields was full of poison. And as has been mentioned before on this thread, animals are bioaccumulators of this poison.

Also, I think our spiritual evolution and our DNA's development go hand in hand, and they are both affected by consciousness (more and more as we go higher I think). Just because we don't do the killing ourselves, doesn't mean we are absolved of the responsibility or the energetic effect of eating meat.

So I think that clean (both karmically and ecologcially/ chemically) food is much more important than it used to be in supporting the development of our other functions and spiritual progress. This is much easier in the world of fruit and veg.

An interesting comment I heard made recently is that the PTB considered the population of a colonised developing country a threat (for potential uprising/revolution) up until that point that western fast food industry was well established in the country. Food in this context became a WEAPON SYSTEM to cut people off from source, make them docile, sick, stupid.

Equally, for those of us raised in the chemical soup of the industrialised world, food can be our medicine.

I would like to share a link to a great post on the subject of sustainable meat consumption vs veganism. It is not overtly focussed on the spiritual side of things, but more the philosophical (but hey, it is all connected).

2 quotes of note are:

"In relation to animals, all people are Nazis - for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka"

and

"As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will always be battlefields".

Here is the link

http://www.permaculture.co.uk/articl...ut-meat-eating

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Have Simon Fairlie & George Monbiot got it wrong about meat eating?
Mark Boyle | Wednesday, 16th February 2011
Agricultural campaigner Simon Fairlie's explosive book, Meat, proposed that a low-meat diet can be a sustainable, ecological choice. Mark Boyle - aka the Moneyless Man - strongly disagrees...


Mark Boyle - the 'Moneyless Man' - believes that meat-eating is a symptom of humanity's obsession with itself
I'm not going to sit here and say that eating meat is right or wrong. As we all do, I've my own personal opinions on the subject, but that doesn't suddenly make me some all-knowing, all-seeing, fictitious character in the sky.

One thing I feel we would all be wise to do, however, is to question conditioned mindsets – often anthropocentric – and to shed light on humanity's capability to simultaneously hold inconsistent and contradictory views.

This has two benefits to mankind: firstly, it reduces the levels of cognitive dissonance we all suffer from today; but more importantly, we have zero hope of creating a more just, respectful and compassionate world unless we ask ourselves those difficult questions. Such contradictory beliefs exist within almost every person, vegans and omnivores alike.

Vegans fuel their cars by handing over their cash – the new vote – to oil companies that are responsible for more deaths than all the world's wars combined; the Gulf of Mexico catastrophe is but the extreme example. Many omnivores claim to 'love' animals – especially Rover and Felix – whilst simultaneously going out and, at best, buying organic 'local' meat for their dinner. Both want to control and manage Nature to an extent and manner that benefits their own species first and foremost. And almost all environmentalists, irrespective of diet, bizarrely seem to want a nice clean planet and their youtube and BBC i-players (the "I don't have a TV" person's TV).

So whilst no one can claim divine knowledge on right or wrong, even a fool could highlight most of these rather bizarre inconsistencies. The most obvious, and most outrageous, seem to creep in on our attitudes towards animals and meat. In recent years two schools of thought have emerged; you have the trend of published works from people such as George Monbiot and Simon Fairlie, arguing that going vegetarian or vegan is less sustainable than a system of subsistence farming that includes meat, if it replaces imported vegetarian protein crops. At the same time you have people like Lord Stern reporting that we all need to go vegan if we want to be sustainable.

The meat of the matter

I find this entire approach is in danger of reducing all life to a carbon footprint equation - a scenario not even Galileo himself would have dreamt up, and doesn't get to the real heart of the matter. I'm not at all saying that it isn't crucial to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions to at least 350ppm (the opposite, in fact); but that I think it is very dangerous to start making this the only moral and ethical consideration today.

Taking Monbiot's and Fairlie's reasoning to its logical extreme, I can only assume that they would have considered Auschwitz acceptable as long as the trains that transported the victims there were run on a clean, renewable energy (or, ideally, to bring small mobile – yet unfortunately industrialised – concentration camps to the Jews), and that they were then slaughtered 'ethically'. It you think these words are harsh, consider that the Noble Laureate, Isaac Bashevis Singer (himself a Jew), once wrote: "In relation to [animals], all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."

If we were consistent with our logic and philosophies, and were as serious about protecting the natural environment as we pay lip-service to, humans would be the first animals to be culled. Or at the very least we'd stop keeping ourselves artificially alive through an industrialised healthcare system resulting in a small island having a population of 61 million humans who then need to kill everything else that competes for 'its food'. No animal on the planet destroys its natural habitat on anything close to the scale we do.

'Of course you can't kill humans to protect the environment!' I gladly hear you exclaim. I agree, what a completely abhorrent scenario to even contemplate.

So why is it so disgusting when we kill some animals – such as humans and others we've chosen to like such as dogs and cats – yet simultaneously so positive when we kill others such as pigs, lambs and cows? The real answer: because we like the taste of them. To do so, we create a delusional culture that eases the levels of cognitive dissonance we have to endure.

The history of meat eating

OK, you may argue that we've eaten meat for much of our history (though not it all), and that it is therefore 'traditional'. Just because something is 'traditional' doesn't necessarily make it wholesome, or justify it for that matter; it may just mean we've been doing it for far too long already. War is traditional. Rape was traditional. Few, thankfully, are suggesting we don't evolve beyond those two patriarchal social symptoms as soon as we can. Many people argue that humans eat animals simply because humans can, because they're more powerful. By their reasoning, surely rape is also justified, given that men are more physically powerful, in general, to women. Just another case of those in the strong position in the power relationship abusing the weak. I'm obviously not suggesting that I believe rape is acceptable under any circumstances, I'm merely highlighting the discrepancy in philosophies that most people simultaneously hold.

It's only our anthropocentric mindset that can see human life as somehow worth more than that of a cow, dog, bird or any other sentient being. It was for that purpose that we abstracted God from Nature and depicted him as a male human. Two hundred and fifty years ago we still believed that white lives were worth more than black lives. Now we call that racism. One hundred years ago we still viewed women as being worth less than men (and in terms of salaries and recognition we still do today). Today we at least recognise that as sexism.

All I am suggesting is that in another hundred years – if humanity evolves quickly enough to survive that long – some generation may view our attitudes to the way we enslave and then kill non-human animals to be as brutal and incompassionate as we now view the human slavery of the 18th Century; what world renowned philosopher Peter Singer terms 'speciesism'.

Humanity: obsessed with itself

Speciesism, briefly, consists of putting the minor needs of one's own species over the major needs of another. If you're going to starve to death in the wild unless you kill another animal, that's a different story and quite instinctual to anyone whose name isn't Gandhi or Sakyamuni. Taking sentient life when survival is genuinely at stake isn't speciesist. A wild life, where human civilisation isn't maintained at the expense of all, isn't speciesist. But a kebab on the way home after a swift six pints is hardly a major need, though it probably feels it at the time.

You may argue that animals kill other animals, therefore we should to. Animals do kill other animals. But humans also kill other humans. On that reasoning, we could justify killing other humans because other humans do. Which is ridiculous. Yet we enact similar contradictory philosophies every day. You may add that killing a human isn't justified as it would be cannibalistic to eat one; fair point, but does that mean I can kill Simon Cowell and feed him to my more attractive canine friend, Boycie?

If you believe that the discrimination against animals is justifiable because we're more intelligent than them, then why do you not argue in favour of killing one year old babies with Downs syndrome? I despise the mentality that even labels a beautiful child as such, but I'm not the one arguing in favour of illogical discrimination here.

Why is it that we discriminate and hold contradictory ethics simultaneously? Is it because our facial features and organs are displayed a bit differently? Or because we still subconsciously believe that animals – and the rest of Nature – is but a Cartesian machine for us to control and own? On what basis is the discrimination?

Slavery, and the subjugation of women, were once socially acceptable. If humanity is to have any hope of evolving to a more compassionate and ecological worldview, it's going to involve us all questioning our own conditioned mindsets. Not just for the benefit of what Daniel Quinn calls the 'rest of the community of life', but for ourselves. For as Leo Tolstoy once said, 'as long as there are slaughterhouses, there'll be battlefields.' It won't matter much if they're mobile ones.

A vegan alternative?

Let's not reduce all life to a Galilean mathematical equation; it's much too beautiful for that. Can veganic locavorism feed 61 million in the UK? Evidence would suggest it would require a complete systems re-design, at best. But maybe the real question is, should there be anything close to 61 million humans in the UK anyway? And is building in industrialised infrastructure, whilst enacting inconsistent and contradictory philosophies and stories into our manufactured culture in an ever intensified attempt to protect that growing 61 million, at the expense of all else, maybe the real problem? How many other lives is it justifiable to domesticate, enslave and kill (or euphemistically cull) to keep those 61 million humans alive and 'sustainable' on a tiny island?

The saddest part is that we've domesticated and enslaved ourselves in the process.

[Lion Monkey]

Posted by Maria Stade (here)

Posted by DawgBone (here)

Posted by Maria Stade (here)

DawgBone
I feel sure that I would have switched to a vegetarian diet long ago if I was the one slaughtering the animals I ate. I bet you would too.

We get our meat nicely packaged in styrofoam trays, beautified with artificial dyes. Takes the edge off.

That is because the natrual bound to the nature is gone !

In my life animals and life and death has been natural so I would prefere to eat a animal that I know have hade a good life with love and affection.
And that it have been given the best food and have not been ill.

Nothing never dies all is energy it just transforms.

But nothing living on the planet have earned to suffer and have a life in pain and horror and stress maybe for many years !

Just sharing my way of seeing it !

Unless a person raises his own pigs and cows and chickens, the animals you eat these days have NOT had a good life or a humane death.

The modern day meat industry is enough to make a person stop eating completely.

Meat factories are an especially horrendous manifestation of conscience-free capitalism and the influence giant corporations have on our world.

I would not say only meat industry it is the FOOD INDUSTRY !

There are lots of ekologoical farms in Sweden and the pressure of this kind of produkt has come from the consumer !

Many are growing their own food to the cows !

Spring and time for the animals to come out ! As you can see this is a big event all like to see when the animals comes out in the green !
PS dont know if they cows on the film eat ecological food in the winter.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=m-TKPXweutU

Cows taking a bath

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=z14jcCexudw

Happy pigs

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yaJjBlzBAmM

Private - pigs getting appels

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iX8cvBVVLwE

Now show us the videos of the slaughter house and the last hour of these animal's lives. I bet they are not so happy then. This is where a lot of the energy goes into the meat that you will eat.

On an ecological farm, I have helped drag a pig, sqealling, out of it's enclosure with the other pigs, and watched 3 men hold it down and stab it in the heart and bleed it to death (they told me that this is much faster and 'kinder' than slitting its throat). I heard the sounds it made and looked into its eyes and it will stay with me forever. There was definitely a light in their that was aware, that suffered terribly, and that wanted to live.

Then we butchered it and cooked up the offal to eat there (as it would not keep in the heat). It felt utterly ugly and wrong, and ultimately unnecessary, particularly given the abundance of fruit and vegetables that the farm could be producing.

In slaughterhouses the normal practice is to stun the pig with electrocution and then hang it up with a meathook through the back leg tendon and slit its throat to bleed it out while alive (this makes the meat tastier). Many of the pigs remain conscious during this process, which can take up to 30 minutes. All that they feel and think is pumped through their bodies and into their flesh, which does a lot of programming the vibration that humans later ingest.

I only mention all this so we dont paint too much of a rosy view of 'happy' meat farming - let's look at all of the movie, not just the pretty parts. There is plenty of slaughterhouse footage on the internet. I think that at the very least, people who eat meat should watch this, if they cannot contemplate to get involved in the slaughter and butchering of an animal. It is a step to take personal responsibility for our impact on the world, and important to make an informed choice.

We are not indigenous people. We don't live in a forest. We don't need to do this. There are plenty of other things we can eat, so we have a choice to avoid this karma or not. I think that it certainly effects our consciousness, and I think that many people who say they 'need' to eat meet have made this so in their own minds first.

But it is a choice and we all have free will (apart from the animals) and it is a part of our individual process. ...

[Inelia]

Posted by billyji (here)
I am only at page 4 on this thread so this may have been mentioned ahead.

Are you speaking about the power of Fasting here Inelia. I began Fasting for two days a week for a 24hr period in 1985, sometimes 3days and the longest fast was 9days, in 1998 i decided to stop fasting only to realize that it was very much part of my life, fasting to me is praying with your body, and i have had many powerful spiritual experiences through meditation and fasting, I have not drank water for many years, only fruit juice. I was vegitarian for 20yrs but now I do eat meat now and then, but only localy grown or wild produce. I think everyone is different and some people require meat and some do not.

I do not agree that eating meat shuts down your DNA, But what i do know is that living life from a loving heart, with compassion as your expression AWAKENS your DNA.
Blessings

If a no food nourishment intake is not for us, the very best thing, and often of equal value, is fasting on a regular basis. We were given a digestive system to get nourishment from living things around us. We were also given other systems to get nourishment from energy sources other than animals and plants. This does require a long period of adjustment, it's not like we can stop eating one day and start using the other systems immediately. The one I used was sungazing, and it wasn't done with the intention of not eating, it was done with the intention of giving my body a hand with health issues. When I started needing less and less food, I was ok with it. But when I woke up one day and was presented with the choice of not needing to eat at all (just drink fluids), I declined because I find eating to be pleasurable. A fall from grace? Probably.

Our food and water are highly polluted at the moment, for the most part. Which is why even a reduction of the total dependency on animals and plants would be of great benefit to the body. But it has to be replaced with something else. If we are on a meat and/or plant diet, we need it to be very balanced, with plenty of protein and all the necessary vitamins and minerals - which in most food sources, at our local level, are very lacking.

Blessing, or energizing, food before ingesting makes a huge difference to it and to our bodies. It also tastes much, much better.

[Flash]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
Hi, Arrowind,
Good questions. But, do you know or have facts of what happen in the last 10,000 years? I’m not talking about information coming from controlled learning institutes.

I have learned directly from native american elders who have passed down their knowledge in an oral tradition, not controlled institues.

What would you suggest that these hunterers/gathers eat in the dead of winter?

agriculture was only minimally developed on Turtle Island when the white man evolved. Are you suggesting that a tribe in northern Vancouver should have been migrating to Mexico or Florida? Should people there only eat vegetables that have to be shipped in via trucks and refrigeration? Nuts that will not grow in a zone 4 climate? soy that is damaging to the hormonal system? Rice that does not grow in Canada? Perhaps we should just move all the people out of Canada and put them in Florida and California where they can have a sustainable diet.

For most of the world a vegetarian diet is not locally sustainable...

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
They eat what they harvested in the warmer months, and, what’s wrong with going naked? Every other creature on this planet is doing it. Besides, we can make clothes from plants like the one they call “Hemp”… Which happens to be banned in some parts of the globe? How anyone can have the power to ban a plant still baffles me.

\ We can make clothing from hemp if the law permitted but hemp was not a significant part of indigenous culture on Turtle Island.. Pretty dam hard going naked when its 5 below zero, Id say. This is true for much of North America and northern Europe and northern China and the mountain regions of south america. Id say that if you think people should go naked in such climates I say you go first. The sustainable solution is to use animal skins. Hemp could work. Cotton over utilizes water, and chemicals.

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
Most indigenous (today) are oppressed and find themselves living in scavenger conditions. They are not the same as the indigenous of the old. The teachings in Hindu and the ways of the ancient Hebrews shed light on this subject (I’m neither Hindu nor Hebrew, btw). And, judging how some religions express fasting and refusing to eat meat on certain days just further tells me that flesh eating is not a necessity for survival, it also shows me just how much change was made in many of the religious scriptures people follow today.

I am specifically refering to peoples of the Turtle Island. They are the same people of the old, under the influences of a non tradtional life style and diet. If the thesis is to be correct it must be correct for all peoples on every continent. the thesis is that eating meat damages the dna and can prevent ascension.
India is a continent that developed agrculture way before the peoples of Turtle Island. Flesh eating is not necessariy for survival if you have access to other foods of good protien quality. It requires agracultural cultures to do this. This was not availble to most of the world in the fourth world (as told by Hopi) until quite recently... Europe and the middle east and southern China being the leaders in agraculture.

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
You are not always going to find a link for everything on the net. DARPA owns the net and will only allow certain sites/ information to exist on it. It’s mainly a tool to further dumb down the masses. But, many seem to think it's the other way around. Why? I don't know...

there is much valuable information on the net. I whole heartedly disagree. Some of the most radical stuff anyone could think of is on the net, some true, some false.. many sites with alternative insightes to archeology, timelines, and the evolution of humanity. I dont save these links but have read on them.. again , I have sought much of my education from tradtional elders of Turtle Island who hold the ancient teachings. They see the white mans ways and their diet as the cause of great distress.. flour, too much carbs... not honoring mother earth... nor the spirit of the animals... tearing at the mothers flesh to create food that does not sustain the spirit and destroying her ecology in the process by creating all the factories necessary to make the whole thing go.

It is natural that agraculture developed in India, with its warm climate and being close, relatively to the mediteranian where its developement started.. mesopotamia (sp?) was it not? at least in this fourth world?

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
They don’t have to live in those climates; they can easily migrate just like the birds do, but since they’ve become accustomed to flesh eating the need for travel is unimportant to them.

the fact of the matter is that migrations ranged in a few hundred miles, not thousands in the old days.. To take a tribe and migrate 1000 miles to warm climate would be their demise. Yes, migrating to be vegetarian is unimportant to them. They were sustaining and thriving without. This whole thread insinuates that these people cannot advance their dna.. and infact have damaged their dna from eating meat. I absolutely protest this idea.


For that matter provide one link to current peoples living in a cohesive society that eat only plants that do not depend on shipping of food and refrigeration over long distances.... I would be very interested in reading these links... I have looked myself but didnt find anything but maybe I am looking in the wrong place?

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
The wrong places is an understatement. Current society has to have the will and courage to make the change back to their roots. Most of us were born into urban jungles and have no knowledge whatsoever on how to farm/garden. They barely even notice the few trees lining the concrete blocks they live on. People today are way too dependant on their governments, They are very much detach from nature and don’t even know it.

Back to their roots is a sustainable culture. back to their roots is hunting and gathering, Organic gardening where possible, for the vast majority within this the fourth world. I cannot speak for the 3rd world before this, that would likely take us back to Atlanian times. Halting shipping and refrigeration across the planet would be required would be back to roots.

I am talking about traditional peoples pre white man invasion, that ate vegetarian..where are records of these people? I can find only the most minimal information on such cultures, really, anywhere on the planet, except for maybe parts, and only parts of India. If vegetarian is requried for evolution then are we to say the indigenous peoples of Turtle Island and Australia cannot evolve? Are we saying that people of India are more evolved? Are we to base ones spiritual evolution on what they eat?
That their DNA is perpetually damaged? therefor an inferior race? and if inferior inferior to whom? those that eat flour and corn? and and rice? and who ship produce all over the world with great expense to the mother earth?

I will remind you that Aldoph Hitler was a vegetarian.

If you really want to talk about damaging DNA lets talk about excessive alcohol and drugs. People get addicted to the sugar of carbs, not the protiens in meat.

Thank you many times for this response. Although my ancestors came on this continent (America, the great north) about 500 years ago for the French/Dutch side and forever for the 20% native blood I have, nobody would have survived generations over generations with a vegetarian diet. They were hunters because they had to, and Inuits still are. One of the greatest food for the cold is Seals fat and meat. Polar bears would agree, they are omnivorous like us. Vegetarian diets is not feasible in the North and the cold, unless you have access to fresh things from all over the world except locally grown, it does not grow..

And when food has travelled thousands of miles (km), has been harvested when green so it could travel without perishing before arrival, there is not much vitamins left into it. It is well known from dieticians that fast frozen products have much more of the vitamins and minerals than anything fresh in winter, in Canada. Canned food is better on some points as well, but not the canned food from Campbell!! the real canned food, however, no one could eat can food for 6 months in a row with no other unfreshed veges or why not meat.

Before the actual time of unfresh vegetables in winter (my grand father, no need to go far) and without some meat and some beans, people were suffering from ricket, scurvy (cured when boiling the bark or willow), name it. Even the indians were not striving so well in winter. To be healthy they had to eat fat. So no, it was not the wonderful world of all correct traditions, perfect, healthy food - it was tough men!!

The problem is the way we live, the pesticides we consume, the aspartame we drink, the productivity stress we endure, etc. The problem to my idea is much more the ways the meat is processed and killed, without compassion and love. the problem is much more the chemicals we put for growing food instead of having correct ways of growing food. My grand father knew his cows and sheeps individually, and thanked then for giving him food and clothes, kind of a trade off. Very few can be vegetarian in this climate without risking their health, and guess about the high cost of products in winter.

But I must think this way because my DNA is irremediably damaged from generation of meat eaters.

When I lived in Mexico and El Salvador, I did love to be vegetarian though. And I loved the meditarenean diet in Turkey (almost no meat, but lots of milk products). Both diets were definitly lighter. Regular North American actual diet is terrible for the health, and surely very damaging. In this case, better to be vegetarian even if you heath will suffer, it becomes a lesser of two evils.

This was my opinion, I now hope I will reincarnate in India or somewhere warm so that my DNA will be with me for spiritual progression.

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by Lion Monkey (here)
One thing I feel we would all be wise to do, however, is to question conditioned mindsets – often anthropocentric – and to shed light on humanity's capability to simultaneously hold inconsistent and contradictory views.

That, in my opinion also, may indeed be the key to human wisdom.

It's a real joy to be captured by a sentence like this that highlights a human condition responsible for so many problems and so much suffering. Thanks for this clarity, Lion Monkey.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Constance Neal (here)

Posted by Inelia (here)
the optimum solution is to EAT AND DRINK NOTHING AT ALL.

Its me again...

Why is it optimal to eat and drink nothing at all?

What do you know about the energies and properties of food?

Here's my $.02c worth.

The body is not really 100% a physical object, although it masquerades as one pretty well most of the time.

If it was a totally physical object, phenomena like these could not occur:

• Levitation
• Bilocation
• Transparency (as in the hypnotist's demonstration in Michael Talbot's wonderful book The Holographic Universe - download link here)
• Miraculous healing
• Psychic surgery
• Time slips (very rare, but these do occur)

This all may need to be factored into the understanding of how the body works in order to start considering Inedia (being able to survive for years without food or water).

[HURRITT ENYETO]

Hi Avalonian friends
I remember a comment in Stargate SG1,
Colonel O'neil asked Tielk if he would like a glass of milk.
Tielk replied "no thank you, i do not wish to ingest any Bovine Mammory liquids"
After hearing it put like that neither did i, hahaha.

I must apologize i haven't read the entire thread but was wondering what cave men did way back then?
I read a comment that humans natural diet was only small amounts of protein ie. Squirrels etc. but surely cave men ate huge Buffalo and such,and very little plant matter?

Cheers

Hurritt

[Jendayi]

Posted by Inelia (here)

Posted by billyji (here)
I am only at page 4 on this thread so this may have been mentioned ahead.

Are you speaking about the power of Fasting here Inelia. I began Fasting for two days a week for a 24hr period in 1985, sometimes 3days and the longest fast was 9days, in 1998 i decided to stop fasting only to realize that it was very much part of my life, fasting to me is praying with your body, and i have had many powerful spiritual experiences through meditation and fasting, I have not drank water for many years, only fruit juice. I was vegitarian for 20yrs but now I do eat meat now and then, but only localy grown or wild produce. I think everyone is different and some people require meat and some do not.

I do not agree that eating meat shuts down your DNA, But what i do know is that living life from a loving heart, with compassion as your expression AWAKENS your DNA.
Blessings

If a no food nourishment intake is not for us, the very best thing, and often of equal value, is fasting on a regular basis. We were given a digestive system to get nourishment from living things around us. We were also given other systems to get nourishment from energy sources other than animals and plants. This does require a long period of adjustment, it's not like we can stop eating one day and start using the other systems immediately. The one I used was sungazing, and it wasn't done with the intention of not eating, it was done with the intention of giving my body a hand with health issues. When I started needing less and less food, I was ok with it. But when I woke up one day and was presented with the choice of not needing to eat at all (just drink fluids), I declined because I find eating to be pleasurable. A fall from grace? Probably.

Our food and water are highly polluted at the moment, for the most part. Which is why even a reduction of the total dependency on animals and plants would be of great benefit to the body. But it has to be replaced with something else. If we are on a meat and/or plant diet, we need it to be very balanced, with plenty of protein and all the necessary vitamins and minerals - which in most food sources, at our local level, are very lacking.

Blessing, or energizing, food before ingesting makes a huge difference to it and to our bodies. It also tastes much, much better.

i agree inelia... through synchronicity i have come to another conclusion today...

this year, my intention is to achieve the following.... (i advise any and all who wish to really turn their lives around to watch this video)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=pvviIS-y0W0

[DevilPigeon]

-----

Probably not relevant in the grand scheme of the topic, but interesting the single letter difference between 'Inedia' (fasting) & 'Inelia' (Inelia!).

[Lettherebelight]

With regard to the 'optimum' diet for the human being...

Regular food can be spiritualised (nourishment for the soul) by offering it with love and devotion back to the Creator.

This is what 'Jesus' was teaching us to do at the Last Supper. It wasn't just suppose to happen at church on Sundays.

This is Yoga (yoke-to link) with God, this sacrifice connects us to the Great Spirit (or however you refer to God)...communion.

Spiritualise your food, and you will spiritualise your body and mind...I guess that would include one's DNA as well.

[Jake]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Constance Neal (here)

Posted by Inelia (here)
the optimum solution is to EAT AND DRINK NOTHING AT ALL.

Its me again...

Why is it optimal to eat and drink nothing at all?

What do you know about the energies and properties of food?

Here's my $.02c worth.

The body is not really 100% a physical object, although it masquerades as one pretty well most of the time.

If it was a totally physical object, phenomena like these could not occur:

• Levitation
• Bilocation
• Transparency (as in the hypnotist's demonstration in Michael Talbot's wonderful book The Holographic Universe - download link here)
• Miraculous healing
• Psychic surgery
• Time slips (very rare, but these do occur)

This all may need to be factored into the understanding of how the body works in order to start considering Inedia (being able to survive for years without food or water).

Yes, absolutely. The physical body has an energy-body counterpart. Just like the physical body has different systems that work together to create the whole, so does the energy-body(s). IE,,, nervous system, circulatory system, muscular system, skeletal system, glandular systems, digestive systems. The energy body also has a complex makeup of different subtle energy systems that work together to form the whole. One can adopt an energy work routine and work with ones energy body, just like one could work out and excersize their physical body.

We are what we eat. Likewise, our energy bodies are what we put into it,,, negative vs positive. Out energy body has storage centers, energy intake ports (hands and feet and middle of the face), primary energy centers (chakras), secondary energy centers, tertiary energy centers, and, (just like the physical body is dependent on blood flow) the energy body matrix is dependent on energy flow. The physical and energetic bodies also work together, ie, a healthy physical body compliments a healthy energy body, and vice-versa. I could write a book on this subject... (hee hee)