The Inelia thread

[Carmen]

Good question, 9eagle9. Is the soul conditional or unconditional? From my limited, but direct, experience, and also from what I have been taught, the soul is the scribe, that records all our lifetimes,but it also is after our evolvement. So, from that perspective, it has an agenda. It prompts us in various directions, which are always evolutionary, even if we, the personality, don't immediately see it that way.

[9eagle9]

That begs another question. If our lifetimes are in our body or cellular memory why do we need the soul to record them.

Then there's hair splitting ...lol. If the soul knows there's no need to use language or records. From my own experience and from the experiences of others past life 'records' can be found in our cellular memory.I have found when people are thinking they are in the Akasha they are actually tapping into their own cell memory. This is wonderful on one hand that they should do, not so wonderful if they are being misled into thinking its a place that is external of them....a 'hall of records'. One one hand it reemphasized that all our answers are found inside of us. But on the same page suggest a opposing beleif that the answers are external of us, in the Akasha. People go inside themselves to obviate Akasha....literally.

It has been suggested in this thread that we look for previous conditions and memories in our body memory. Do we need to go to the soul too? And then another can of worms. We cannot express the Now and the Present and say the soul has no concept of time and then say in the next breath the Past (time) is found there. It confuses people.

I am asking this questions not because I'm confused. I'm asking them because I've asked them before. And they have been asked of me and that is what taught me to grow .

[giovonni]

i believe one's experiences on this plane are self (co) created with others (souls) here. i sense it does not really matter how one explains (defines) ones experiences here in general terms; for i sense we each have differing perspectives in what and how we are experiencing the here and now. But from my perspective - its all good !

[Carmen]

Maybe the soul 'is' the cells, or governor of the cells. Maybe the cells are 'where' the recording happens. I know from experience that when we have a major realization, some part of my body will 'release' energetically. Not always, but enough that I have realized that my body held that memory. Interesting concept.

Could you please comment on these observations Inelia. This is, after all, your thread. I don't wish to go off on a tangent of my own!! Interesting stuff.

[Anchor]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
But John. It still begs the question. Is the soul conditional or not? Is it unconditioned, or can it be conditioned? If its making agreements its setting conditions or operating in them.It can make the agreement to be harvested. If it can make an agreement than it is an essence that is subject to conditions. If a soul can make an agreeable agreement (lol) then it could conceivably make an agreement that doesn't serve us very well. We KNOW the consciousness and subconsciousness does that. So why does the soul need to do it. Now we've opened another can of worms to conceivably wade through, soul, and consciousness agreements. It blows the door wide open onto speculating as to what other conditions would be allowed.

While the entire time we are struggling to get into that unconditioned place we have been led to believe exists for us. Why? Its as conditioned and under agreement as other facets of our life?

I know this is a hard question believe me I know it is.

Thanks!!! The harder the better! This is my first attempt at an answer. I reserve the right to elaborate or correct myself later

Why is it so hard? It is because we are forced to attempt to explain processes that exist in finer dimensions of space/time and time/space than we are directly conscious of. Our earthbound minds have a special problem with the infinite.

We have to play with abstract concepts and risk being misunderstood, and requiring a process of refinement until that finer sense within us recognizes understanding and agreement.

> Is the soul conditional or not?

In my initial contemplation of this, I had the image of a river of water running down a hill.

Its flow is bounded by conditions the river bank. Therefore its mode of expression is bounded by external conditions, but the water within itself is also subject to a myriad of turbulence, whirlpools, eddies and currents that appear random, but if you knew all the conditions it would be conditional on them and predictable. The river exists in our co-created illusion. We did it. We created that river at levels of our being that are hidden from us at this time. We don't even know we did it more often than not.

I view the soul - my definition of which is the eternal focus of our beingness that has presence in space/time while incarnated and time/space while not. It is an individualized fragment of the one infinite creator, and necessarily has individual qualities in its "now" moment that are based on its path and experience. This as you have referenced is recorded on the very fabric of creation known as akasha (the hall of records). This soul also has a focus in me which is the same as the focus in you and why we are as one - the infinite focus point that they all have.

A William Blake moment is called for...

"To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour."

Poets have the jump on people like me for articulating things like this - it is a humbling power.

The soul is not everything but contains a focus point where it is connected with everything. Accordingly therefore there is a limited boundary at the interface between its infinite self and that which is not of itself, a phenomena that is inevitable on the basis that it is an individual amongst an infinite and multi-dimensional collection of individuals.

That is why I have said, the two basic things in the universe that you need to be aware of - as an individualized expression of the one - are you and everything else in this moment.

In a sense the soul is self-conditioned, it took a mode of incarnation and took on the constraints of a manifest illusion, so powerful that it seems real to the extent of even creating a situation that this very fact is suppressed. Paradox. So I also think the answer is both conditioned by the requirements of the moment, and unconditional in the context of the infinite and boundlessness of the one infinite creation.

You and I both have souls. We are limitless in our power, but we have chosen to limit this to experience that limited mode, and in so doing we play our part in infinite consciousness by conditioning ourselves unconditionally.

Consequently conditions come and go as we decide it. We are making it up as we go along. At the same time according to the laws of attraction and like attracts like, groups of individuals with similar characteristics and conditions will group together.

The answer therefore, to me at this time, is both.

John..

PS: My heart is singing!

[pilotsimone]

deleted post

[Inelia]

John,

Thank you for your beautiful, clear and concise post! Makes my heart sing too :D

(This post: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post210721)

[David Topí]

Posted by manny (here)
david topi stated in a ealier post that he is living two lifes at the same time.
at that time i found it difficult to even conceive the idea.
but lo and behold i just read tonight a section of the book
journey of souls
of which dr newton explains that we are all part source and some of us are able to to live two or more lives at once.
interesting synchronicity.
teaching and learning will come to us in many ways and forms.
just open your eyes to the clues,as someone stated somewhere.

Hi Manny,
Just for the record. What I said is what Bill explained, I am aware of other people having the same Higher self as I do. This is called simultaneous incarnations. Imagine that you would project astrally to the plane where your higher self sits, in a person whos method of evolution is reincarnation, you would see just one silver cord, coming from the HS and entering into the body of the person. When a HS chooses to evolve via the simultaneous method, you find out that the HS projects itself into many more souls who are incarnating at the same time.

The trick is that it can be also in several historical periods, so from our perspective, this counts as past lives, but from our HS perspective, this is happening all at the same time. I am aware of simultaneous incarnations of mine active in this 2011 in other parts of the planet, but I can assure you that is this more common that you can think, if you would to develop a bit the communication with your HS you could easily discover that you may be also having simultaneous incarnations.

I have seen many other people (HS) in this situation. My own HS seems to indicate that more than 40% of the population in the planet today are incarnations of simultaneously evolving HS, I have not way to confirm that, it is simply a channeled info received. This is just for my info as I was researching this subject (no need to believe it, this is what I mean).

If you consider also that your HS is out of the continuum time line we exist, you can also imagine easily that it can project several souls into several different historical periods at the same time. Past, Present and Future all COEXIST out of our time percepcion, therefore, you now can be having a simultaneous live in Greece, Rome, the ancient China and the XV century: ALL at the SAME TIME (from our HS perspective).
The way one incarnation influences the other (say you are killed in Rome and you feel the effects now, it is not always because you have a memory from a past life, but because there is a connection between two silver cords, in which the information that one incarnation is transmiting to the HS is also being received into another, in a different time period.

I use this silver cords connections to heal blocks and restrictions from "past" (from our perspective) but simultaneous (from our HS perspective) incarnations, so removing the effects of something that is happening 10 centuries ago into your current incarnation.

It is a bit tricky to explain, but pretty much real!

[Hervé]

Posted by Anchor (here)
We have to play with abstract concepts and risk being misunderstood, and requiring a process of refinement until that finer sense within us recognizes understanding and agreement.

Hi John!

Thank you for initiating a working definition to unravel the confusion.

My take on this is that the confusion has been deliberately intended through an unworkable nomenclature which inverted things, turned them inside out like in the case of bodies pleading with a god to save their souls... how much more inverted could this be?

Another example of a twisting around to make things unworkable is given by Ingo Swann in his book "Penetration" with respect to telepathy. The official definition makes it impossible to understand the phenomenon and therefore prevents anyone to experience it from the definition's premises.

So, thank you John for starting from scratch!

[Bill Ryan]

--------

A brief clarification about the 'unconditionality' of the soul/ spirit.

It can do pretty much anything it wants - but the entire point of the Games/ Matrix/ all levels of existence 'below' Source/ Unity/ Omni is that the soul/ spirit exercises choice and responsibility. When it does not, then things tend to go wrong.

With regard to walk-ins, for instance, when Inelia says that the soul-spirit taking over a body in must/should get the agreement of the prior occupant of the body, it's a little like walking into someone's house, or driving away their car.

The ethical procedure is to sign a rental agreement, or to buy the car. There's an agreement involved to which both parties consent.

But sometimes there are thieves. Or squatters. Or in a military situation, the cars and houses are simply destroyed.

Inelia is referring to the way we should be going about these transfers (if the players are being ethical). In the meantime, some hostile walk-ins do occur.

With regard to abilities, the soul/ spirit voluntarily agrees to give up some abilities when entering the Games/ Matrix from Source. What we give up is an individual choice. This is [one reason] why souls/ spirits have different personalities. We choose the clothes we wear when going to the Ball.

The marble not yet carved can hold the form of every thought the greatest artist has.
-- Michelangelo

I choose a block of marble and chop off whatever I don't need.
-- Alexander Pope

The reason we give up some things is that if we came into the Matrix/ Games literally as omnipotent, omniscient beings, there would be no game. It would be like God playing chess or football. No match. We did come down here to enjoy ourselves, and to learn - and to do that, it has to be a fair game.

Over the aeons of time, this Giant Game of all Games has become corrupted in various ways. This is the root of the problem. This is why beings like Inelia (and many others) are here - to restore fair play.

Not to rescue us. But to allow us to have a fairer chance of rescuing ourselves out of this mess - and in turn, once we've got ourselves in good shape again, to assist others.

I've been doing this work in the background for 30 years (and, although we'd never met, so has Inelia). It's not new for me, or for her. But now, our working in partnership together allows us to combine our strengths (and different personalities!) and create a significant synergy that can have a much broader ripple effect.

For feedback about our experimental seminar, do read these pages starting here:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...30-April/page6

The reason this is happening now, is because now is the time.

[777]

Thank you to everyone participating in the last couple of pages especially, you've collectively blown my mind.

John I can hear the music of your brains cogs from here, they make a very sweet song.

[daddy fishwick]

I am compelled to be happy! This all resonates well with an inner understanding i've always had! With thanks Bill and all!

[Anchor]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Hi John!

Thank you for initiating a working definition to unravel the confusion.

My take on this is that the confusion has been deliberately intended through an unworkable nomenclature which inverted things, turned them inside out like in the case of bodies pleading with a god to save their souls... how much more inverted could this be?

Another example of a twisting around to make things unworkable is given by Ingo Swann in his book "Penetration" with respect to telepathy. The official definition makes it impossible to understand the phenomenon and therefore prevents anyone to experience it from the definition's premises.

So, thank you John for starting from scratch!

Your very welcome. I was worried I might make things worse! I have edited that post 3 or 4 times now, so I must apologize to people that read it before about an hour ago.

Anyway I agree with you.

Layers of distortion and confusion have been deliberately cultivated by the controllers. It is time to avoid this mess and start using our swords to cut through the bull****. Its really hard. For my part I need the refined insight and questions of people like 9eagle9 to put me in a place where that can be done. I can't seem to do it on my own very often.

So I credit 9eagle9 for allowing that post to do its work through me - it came from nowhere that I recognise in my own knowledge base! If the question had not been asked, I would not have been driven to the state that I find necessary to even begin to answer something like that. This process is a mystery to me and I am only beginning to plumb its depths.

Also sometimes I personally learn things directly from people that post - others I learn from my own answers that get put out my fingers in reaction to other posts! In these moments I certainly cannot take the credit.

I have concluded for the moment that this is for me a process closest to the experience of remembering something.

The fact that this forum is now giving greater prominence and air-time to matters of a serious meta-physical nature is for me a VERY ENCOURAGING and quite an exciting development. Once upon a time, I thought it would not happen.

John..

[777]

John, my apologies if I've overstepped the mark, but, I've taklen the liberty of quoting you in my signature. Is this ok?

I for one, need reminding of this sentence and concept on a daily basis, it's not made this much sense to me ever in my life, for which I'm very grateful. You're so right as well that the feeling is one of remembering rather than a new idea. Thank goodness for 9eagle9 in being the catalyst. This is awesome, what a time to be alive!

[Anchor]

Posted by 777 (here)
John, my apologies if I've overstepped the mark, but, I've taklen the liberty of quoting you in my signature. Is this ok?

I for one, need reminding of this sentence and concept on a daily basis, it's not made this much sense to me ever in my life, for which I'm very grateful. You're so right as well that the feeling is one of remembering rather than a new idea. Thank goodness for 9eagle9 in being the catalyst. This is awesome, what a time to be alive!

My ego reports that it is seriously delighted and thanks you for it The other part of me is trying to be ok with it.

Seriously dude, let those words be written without my name attached. I'll get my ego back for the stimulation it received later.

John..

[777]

Posted by Anchor (here)

Posted by 777 (here)
John, my apologies if I've overstepped the mark, but, I've taklen the liberty of quoting you in my signature. Is this ok?

I for one, need reminding of this sentence and concept on a daily basis, it's not made this much sense to me ever in my life, for which I'm very grateful. You're so right as well that the feeling is one of remembering rather than a new idea. Thank goodness for 9eagle9 in being the catalyst. This is awesome, what a time to be alive!

My ego reports that it is seriously delighted and thanks you for it The other part of me is trying to be ok with it.

Seriously dude, let those words be written without my name attached. I'll get my ego back for the stimulation it received later.

John..

hahaha! Why of course.......

[SEAM]

Posted by Carmen (here)
Good question, 9eagle9. Is the soul conditional or unconditional? From my limited, but direct, experience, and also from what I have been taught, the soul is the scribe, that records all our lifetimes,but it also is after our evolvement. So, from that perspective, it has an agenda. It prompts us in various directions, which are always evolutionary, even if we, the personality, don't immediately see it that way.

Hey... I've not followed along with this discussion, so I don't know exactly what the heart of the matter is... but after reading a couple pages, I just wanted to offer... and I apologize if it has been mentioned, or if I am off topic, or if it even matters... but I believe we have two souls!

We have two of everything else. Maybe one belongs to us and the other belongs to the Source... Maybe one chamber of our heart, or one hemisphere of our brain follows suit, I don't know. But I do think that we would not have one soul, seeing as we have two of everything else... food for thought. Carry on.

[bearcow]

I think perhaps for the the sake of clarity we need to try to clearly define what we are talking about when use the term "soul". In many new age texts it is become synonymous with the astral body, the personality that is self aware when someone astral projects, has a near death experience etc. I think perhaps in the original definitions of the word it is more closely related with what people generally call the higher self, or the individual jiva (divine individualized spark) that separates from the atman or the group spirit. The Taoist terms for this are ling and shen. To understand these concepts clearly can get quite complex and to be honest has little practical value for the person just starting out. From one perspective it can be said that you have a individualized soul and spirit and from another perspective it can be said that you do not. From my perspective both are correct. When looking at the term "soul" from this perspective the average person has a very limited connection to higherself/soul and the primary form of communication between the waking self and the soul is through unconscious/sub conscious means.

Let me say this, the white light that people see when they have a near death experience could be thought of as your soul, it comes down from heaven and reels your astral body back in when your time is up. As people experience it, they see themselves separate from it, yet if they choose they can or cannot merge back into it.

The trick is to merge the soul light into the physical/astral body while still alive in order to become a full expression of the divinity.

[9eagle9]

Sure blame me, 777 and John.Good intuitive call though -- I am a catalyst I make things happen. What comes burping up as a result of my caterwauling--I mean catalysing-- though is YOUR responsibility

Thank you for response Bill, I think for comforts sake I will respond in a different way shortly.

Posted by Anchor (here)

Posted by 777 (here)
John, my apologies if I've overstepped the mark, but, I've taklen the liberty of quoting you in my signature. Is this ok?

I for one, need reminding of this sentence and concept on a daily basis, it's not made this much sense to me ever in my life, for which I'm very grateful. You're so right as well that the feeling is one of remembering rather than a new idea. Thank goodness for 9eagle9 in being the catalyst. This is awesome, what a time to be alive!

My ego reports that it is seriously delighted and thanks you for it The other part of me is trying to be ok with it.

Seriously dude, let those words be written without my name attached. I'll get my ego back for the stimulation it received later.

John..

[Sidney]

Hi Inelia (and Billl, WOW.. I don't get alot of free time to visit the forums lately, but I need to state that there has been a complete turnaround in energy flow here. (in a positive way of course).

Thank you so much for devoting your time and heart to help all of us to continue to grow. Inelia, you are such a true being of light, it is unmistakable.


I have a question for you. And it seems like it would be obvious, but,, how can we know if our body has been "invaded"? Sometimes, when I feel very negative, it seems as though it is not my own soul creating this energy, that it is from another source, and do we just "ask" or "tell" it to leave, or is it more complicated than that? Thank you again for your wisdom.