Membership on the forum

[Seikou-Kishi]

I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

[Ammit]

Oh what a rant that was...

I see it as people sorry to see friends leave here for whatever reasons, and those reasons are their personal reasons. If I see a thread that I am bored of seeing or have no interest in, I DO NOT READ IT, simple.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike certain threads, then DO NOT READ THEM.

[Amer]

Seikou-kishi, I respect your opinion and your right to express it 100%. I for my part have never bitched I can assure you. I love reading here and learning here. But if something doesn't feel right I question it, always respectfully, I question many things, that's how I learn. I question people, their motives, their ideas, philosphies, intentions. I like to bounce off of people. I feel like I'm in a constant learning curve. I take nothing for granted.. When I was a little girl my brother used to call me "20 questions"- I would drive him nuts, the same at school, the same at university. It's me, but always respectful. I can't help feeling perhaps you started this thread because of what I wrote a short while ago in the "another member gone" thread. I did not post to upset the apple cart but simply to question in a healthy way. I'm sorry if you thought it was bitching. I can assure you it wasn't. We sit at our computers and read and write not merely words, but the thoughts coming from real people. It would be shallow not to in some small way care about these people whose words sometimes go around in our heads and resonate with us.

[Seikou-Kishi]

Posted by Ammit (here)
Oh what a rant that was...

I see it as people sorry to see friends leave here for whatever reasons, and those reasons are their personal reasons. If I see a thread that I am bored of seeing or have no interest in, I DO NOT READ IT, simple.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike certain forums, then DO NOT READ THEM.

I can see what you did, there, and I take your point but the ideas are not symmetrical: to continue the analogy of this being Bill's house and Avalon's members as guests within his house, it would not be sufficient to say 'if you dislike how somebody treats this house, divert your gaze', while saying 'if you insist on mistreating my house, please leave'. We cannot simply neglect what is happening here.

Posted by Amer (here)
Seikou-kishi, I respect your opinion and your right to express it 100%. I for my part have never bitched I can assure you. I love reading here and learning here. But if something doesn't feel right I question it, always respectfully, I question many things, that's how I learn. I question people, their motives, their ideas, philosphies, intentions. I like to bounce off of people. I feel like I'm in a constant learning curve. I take nothing for granted.. When I was a little girl my brother used to call me "20 questions"- I would drive him nuts, the same at school, the same at university. It's me, but always respectful. I can't help feeling perhaps you started this thread because of what I wrote a short while ago in the "another member gone" thread. I did not post to upset the apple cart but simply to question in a healthy way. I'm sorry if you thought it was bitching. I can assure you it wasn't. We sit at our computers and read and write not merely words, but the thoughts coming from real people. It would be shallow not to in some small way care about these people whose words sometimes go around in our heads and resonate with us.

You're right, Amer, and nobody here is saying that there are things that shouldn't be questioned, but when that festers from simple question-asking into a constant background whir it's surely very different. Avalon is being pecked at from within and it's only because of Avalon's great tolerance that such an infection hasn't already been flushed out. The plentiful examples of tolerance, understanding and openness at Avalon do nothing to assuage the qualms of those who consider it censored, and I can only draw the conclusion that after so long these people do not want their qualms answered or their worries assured, but that they are solely intent on perpetuating the idea that this place is a Stalinist dictatorship.

Nobody seems to appreciate more than Bill when a person takes a reasoned and measured disagreement with a post he has made; it seems to me that he looks upon it as a chance to further elucidate his meaning. People choose not to see that, though, and it's disappointing. Bill has demonstrated his patience on numerous times, but it goes unnoticed because patience is, by necessity, less obvious than impatience. I feel deeply aggrieved to watch Bill slandered by people while maintaining his dignity. I often feel he is too patient.

Bouncing ideas off people, Amer, is absolutely great and something that is done frequently here. I'm sorry that people have confused genuine discussion with what has been going on on this forum in certain quarters, but such discussion is greatly appreciated here, and it is the same who scream censorship that try to blur the distinction between what they do and such discussion.

[Ammit]

I am sure that if Bill, or the moderators did not like anything that was being posted here, they would quickly pounce on it and cure the problem.

And I hope you can see what I did, I replied to your post.
As for "it would not be sufficient to say 'if you dislike how somebody treats this house, divert your gaze".....That was not what I said,,was it!

And as for "symmetrical",,it may not have been balanced but, you knew what it meant..

[Seikou-Kishi]

You said:

Posted by Ammit (here)
If I see a thread that I am bored of seeing or have no interest in, I DO NOT READ IT, simple.

But it's more than just a case of being bored with it, and it's entirely a case of frustration at seeing certain people continually disrespecting this forum

Posted by Ammit (here)
I am sure that if Bill, or the moderators did not like anything that was being posted here, they would quickly pounce on it and cure the problem.

That's the point though, isn't it? Whenever any of the moderators or administrators step in because they don't like what is happening, its only fodder for their fires. They're creating a situation in which they cannot be opposed without further fueling their paranoid fantasies.

Posted by Ammit (here)
And as for "symmetrical",,it may not have been balanced but, you knew what it meant..

Well I confess I don't quite know what to say if even you admit you're not being balanced in your response. I am not out for confrontation and I do not want it; I want an end to all this confrontation so that Avalon can do its business without hindrance.

[Some Bloke]

If anyone wants to see (and if you don't have a strong contstitution look away) what happens without moderators ,
http://www.richplanet.net/forum/inde...pic=27&page=18
have a look round , its not pretty shame it could have been a really good forum......

[Seikou-Kishi]

Wow that is quite something, Some Bloke

[fox.mulder]

From the intense "arguing" in this thread with the meticulous refuting of quoted points.....alot of the players here are far from that peace that brings ascension.........peace does not need to be argued or justified.............just chill....it is all that it is......


The Truth Is Out there..........

[Lost Soul]

Bill's forum. Bill's rules. Don't like it, go somewhere else. There's plenty of other forums to play at. As for me, I'm happy with Bill's rules and Bill's staff.

[TimelessDimensions]

I love walking in the forest,
I've never seen any "moderators" in nature

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by TimelessDimensions (here)
I love walking in the forest,
I've never seen any "moderators" in nature

But nor Trolls ...

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by TimelessDimensions (here)
I love walking in the forest,
I've never seen any "moderators" in nature

Depends which forest!

In the famous and unique Masai Mara in Kenya, the entry fee is $70 per person plus more for the vehicle. I've been there many times, and the cost is worth every penny.

There are some places where you can watch the hippos and crocs at extremely close hand - and there's a game ranger standing by (discreetly) with a very large gun.

In the California Park Service, in equally unique, delicate, and staggeringly beautiful habitats like Yosemite and Tuolumne, permits are required to limit the numbers of hikers so that the human impact is controlled. I'm delighted they do this.

For those of you in Australia, ask the Aboriginal Elders what damage the white men create when they permit themselves to do whatever they wish.

Planet Earth has been trashed by humans doing what they want and taking what they want without any regard for others.

This forum should be a reflection of the human race at its finest: not a reflection of the human race at its worst.

[777]

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

Completely agree with everything above. I for one only come on this forum because I know it's of an extremely high quality and anything that isn't, either comes with a disclaimer or the poster is pushed to back it up. I've spent many years on other forums and I've whittled down my membership to just this one, purely based on the content. I find it an absolute honour to be part of Avalon which I do genuinely see as the forefront in an alternative online community.

For this to exist, the mods and admin do so much behind the scenes just so that our collective dream of changing this world can be one step closer to a reality.......and we get this free, due to their hard work and our involvement. If a user leaves because they don't like the rules, let them. The "censorship" is integral to the quality therein.

Oh and Palpatine, you are one of my favourite members here. You're intelligent, highly experienced in many fields of life and make daily fantastic contributions. I have to say with this, I think you've got it wrong. That's only my subjective opinion, take it as you may. As long as you stick around please, I'd miss you otherwise!

[Mad Hatter]

Seikou-Kishi

With respect, I have enjoyed immensely some of your intelligent, cogent and educational replies on various topics as I roam around the forum, but I must admit I find this particular purge slightly out of character.

Do you consider starting yet another thread on this subject matter a useful step in resolving the problem as you see it?

Could your viewpoint on this issue not have been appended to one of the existing threads?

You are of course always free to take your own advice...

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
...if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

Alternatively...

Posted by Ammit (here)
if you dislike certain threads, then DO NOT READ THEM.

which is more in keeping with the oft stated dictum, take what resonates and leave what doesn't.

I too have been commenting on some of these threads and aslo...

Posted by Amer (here)
...can't help feeling perhaps you started this thread because of what I wrote a short while ago in the "another member gone" thread.

But unlike your exercise here I am attempting to suggest solutions, albeit maybe unrealistic ones. That attempt did draw the suggestion that a certain place looked good this time of year so I may have overstepped the mark and will be duly reprimanded shortly. I don't know.

Perhaps as another suggestion, which I alluded to earlier in this post, would be for the mod team to merge all those threads into the one sandbox, say a C_YA_L8R thread. Being assembled in one place we might find the positives balancing out the negatives.

Being the intelligent individual you obviously are, you must realise that the most dangerous and pernicious form of censorship is that of the 'Politically Correct' persuasion. ie People afraid to speak their mind for fear of either ridicule or being ostracised.

In fact in my view any censorship on a forum of self professed truth seekers equates to an oxymoron.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
There are some places where you can watch the hippos and crocs at extremely close hand - and there's a game ranger standing by (discreetly) with a very large gun.

Interesting irony there... Humans part with filthy luca to gain a vicarious thrill and the wildlife stands to get shot for having there space invaded...

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
For those of you in Australia, ask the Aboriginal Elders what damage the white men create when they permit themselves to do whatever they wish.

After that ask them why the hunted the Mega Fauna into extinction and completely changed the Flora of the country using firestick farming methods.
When one points a finger at someone there always seems to be three fingers pointing back at you.

and sorry Bill but the most deliciously paradoxical irony of the lot...

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
This forum should be a reflection of the human race at its finest: not a reflection of the human race at its worst.

written on an a forum that has for the main part crawled around the underbelly of mankind exposing some of the worst of the worst!!

Well accounting for inflation there is my dollars worth.
PS Awesome pic. Did you get to take it?

[Calz]

Do not most of us keep returning here in all colors, shapes, sizes and genders?

Do we not come here with a general "roadmap" of "lessons" to learn (not literal pre-destiny)?

Lastly ... is this not the time for like minded souls to band together???

Can we not find it within us to stop the splintering and (apparent) divisions that have started to appear???

Offered with humility in hopes of peace between us all

*** adding ***

Lol

It would appear what prompted me to post this has "mysteriously jumped timelines" (into another thread):

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...related-issues

[Seikou-Kishi]

Posted by Mad Hatter (here)
Seikou-Kishi

With respect, I have enjoyed immensely some of your intelligent, cogent and educational replies on various topics as I roam around the forum, but I must admit I find this particular purge slightly out of character.

Do you consider starting yet another thread on this subject matter a useful step in resolving the problem as you see it?

Could your viewpoint on this issue not have been appended to one of the existing threads?

You are of course always free to take your own advice...

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
...if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

Alternatively...

Posted by Ammit (here)
if you dislike certain threads, then DO NOT READ THEM.

Mad Hatter: yes frankly, I do think it necessary, and while I don't deny that I can be a bit vitriolic in making my point, I think it stands. It seems to have become popular on this forum to talk it down and to talk about Bill as if he's some mad despot and I don't like it. You've merely repeated Ammit's point, which I responded to earlier, so I direct you to the response I gave when I first heard that frankly inadequate solution.

[Seikou-Kishi]

I think you're right, Sid, to say it is a dangerous notion to suggest we inherit the sins of our forebears

[Meadowlark]

Lord Sidious, I’ve often enjoyed your comments on the forum, although I disagree with your viewpoint on this particular thread.

I’m glad you are willing to speak your mind and agree you are not usually a troublemaker. But in this case at least, you could have made your point more tactfully. Often how we say something is just as important (if not more important) than the content of what we are saying.

You’ve made your point that you believed what he said was a racial stereotype, and Bill has addressed your point and supported his statement with evidence.

If you still disagree with him, you’d make your argument much stronger by saying why you think the evidence doesn’t apply, rather than commanding him to stand by his statements-- not many people like to be ordered to do things and usually won’t respond well to that.

Like you said, we're all fallible, and it makes things go much more smoothly when we try to admit our mistakes.

[starsmoonmtns]

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
I am sick to the back teeth of the petulant complaints about members leaving, being banned or suspended from the forum. This forum's moderators and administrators have a heavy duty upon them to ensure that the forum is a healthy and focused place in which to discuss its very important topics — if that means they lose your favour, so be it; they have greater considerations.

You're all so quick to say how awful the 'censorship' is here at Avalon as soon as somebody objects to the way in which you tear it down in your posts, but Avalon is, as has so often been mentioned, not a free house or a free-for-all. This is Bill's forum and we are here in his house to share our experiences and our thoughts. If you do not like Bill or his house rules, stop bitching about them both and leave.

I can say it not more directly: if you dislike how Avalon is run, leave.

It really should show you that there is no censorship here at Avalon when you can berate it endlessly and with impunity. If you still think there's censorship here, though, you owe it to yourself to leave, and you owe it to us to leave us in peace.

I have never said anything about censorship, IMHO this entire thread should never have been produced.... move on if that's how you feel.