The sensitivity of language and people when describing race-related issues

[Teakai]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Erm, no, I am exactly where I want to be, thanks for asking.
By all means, laugh.
You have five to ten years more.
Then you won't laugh.
Do something now, let go of what you think I am doing and open your mind.

What I think you're doing?

What are you doing?

I see you demanded an apology from Bill. But if your motives are as you say they are, then shouldn't you have thanked him instead for the opportunity you feel he gave you to expand on the bigger picture?

That is an excellent question.
I have said that he presented me with the opportunity to do this, but not just for me, for all of us.
So yes, thanks Bill, much appreciated.

So...did Bill's comment in regard to Aboriginal elders and whites offend you or were you only pretending for the sake of 'The Bigger Picture'? And if it did, how exactly?

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by DevilPigeon (here)

Posted by Teakai (here)
...then shouldn't you have thanked him instead for the opportunity you feel he gave you to expand on the bigger picture?

No, no, no! This to me is an example of one of the issues. The problems are being bypassed, not addressed, and also turning it into a falsely positive outcome!

I think she was right.
It is only fair and right to acknowledge the good whilst acknowledging the mistake.
It brings balance to the force.
Now, where are those damn jedi?

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Erm, no, I am exactly where I want to be, thanks for asking.
By all means, laugh.
You have five to ten years more.
Then you won't laugh.
Do something now, let go of what you think I am doing and open your mind.

What I think you're doing?

What are you doing?

I see you demanded an apology from Bill. But if your motives are as you say they are, then shouldn't you have thanked him instead for the opportunity you feel he gave you to expand on the bigger picture?

That is an excellent question.
I have said that he presented me with the opportunity to do this, but not just for me, for all of us.
So yes, thanks Bill, much appreciated.

So...did Bill's comment in regard to Aboriginal elders and whites offend you or were you only pretending for the sake of 'The Bigger Picture'? And if it did, how exactly?

I would appreciate it if you read my words.
I have already stated the answer, without your implication of some type of negative intent.
Why do you have a need to paint me in a negative light?
Do you think you are helping/defending bill by doing this?
Because if you do, you are mistaken, only the truth will help bill.
That is why I have done what I have done.

[Teakai]

Posted by DevilPigeon (here)

Posted by Teakai (here)
...then shouldn't you have thanked him instead for the opportunity you feel he gave you to expand on the bigger picture?

No, no, no! This to me is an example of one of the issues. The problems are being bypassed, not addressed, and also turning it into a falsely positive outcome!

How is this an example of one of those issues - and what is the issue you are thinking of?

What problems are being bypassed and what is the falsely positive outcome you are foreseeing, Devilpigeon?

[Teakai]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I am rocking the boat to try and bring the issues to a head so that we can deal with them, not let them fester on and on.
And you are welcome, being a mod isn't as easy as some might think, especially on a forum with this much traffic.

Then, M'lord, why don't you just come straight out and tell us what you see the issues as being?
Then we can assess whether they are genuine or perceived.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I would appreciate it if you read my words.
I have already stated the answer, without your implication of some type of negative intent.
Why do you have a need to paint me in a negative light?
Do you think you are helping/defending bill by doing this?
Because if you do, you are mistaken, only the truth will help bill.
That is why I have done what I have done.

I read ALL your words and I still fail to see your issue of contention. Is what Bill said untrue or true? Are you offended by the truth of it, perhaps?

I'm not interested in helping or defending anything but the truth. I don't play mind games - they bore me.

[DevilPigeon]

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by DevilPigeon (here)

Posted by Teakai (here)
...then shouldn't you have thanked him instead for the opportunity you feel he gave you to expand on the bigger picture?

No, no, no! This to me is an example of one of the issues. The problems are being bypassed, not addressed, and also turning it into a falsely positive outcome!

How is this an example of one of those issues - and what is the issue you are thinking of?

What problems are being bypassed and what is the falsely positive outcome you are foreseeing, Devilpigeon?

Hi Teakai

The original issue remains unresolved - the wording of his original post, and the lack of acknowledgement that his words could have been chosen better. Yes, I agree that it's caused the pages of (largely) articulate debate, and if it concludes to a positive resolution then good, thanks indeed should be attributed.

However, giving thanks prematurely leaves the risk that the issue is sidestepped.

[MariaDine]

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Unite...app_4949752878
Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty

Namasté

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I am rocking the boat to try and bring the issues to a head so that we can deal with them, not let them fester on and on.
And you are welcome, being a mod isn't as easy as some might think, especially on a forum with this much traffic.

Then, M'lord, why don't you just come straight out and tell us what you see the issues as being?
Then we can assess whether they are genuine or perceived.

Would you like me to eat the food you ordered for you too?
Part of the problem is that some of us won't think for ourselves, this thread is proof.
You are asking me questions I have answered.
If you have a problem with me/what I am doing, then that is ok, but for the love of life itself, think.
That is all that you will have to save you and yours.
And this isn't just aimed at you Teakai, it is for all of us.
The second part of your post is a good point, hence me wanting to put that part up for discussion.
I would think that if you think the issues the forum and members face are not real, then why did one forum become three?
Why are people even now contemplating leaving?

Posted by Teakai (here)


¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I would appreciate it if you read my words.
I have already stated the answer, without your implication of some type of negative intent.
Why do you have a need to paint me in a negative light?
Do you think you are helping/defending bill by doing this?
Because if you do, you are mistaken, only the truth will help bill.
That is why I have done what I have done.

I read ALL your words and I still fail to see your issue of contention. Is what Bill said untrue or true? Are you offended by the truth of it, perhaps?

I'm not interested in helping or defending anything but the truth. I don't play mind games - they bore me.

No thanks, that is taking the thread backwards.
I am trying to move forward.
Sorry, but that is going to bog us down in opinions on something we have moved past.

[Teakai]

Posted by DevilPigeon (here)
However, giving thanks prematurely leaves the risk that the issue is sidestepped.

Is the issue about...race?

Or is race just the cover for something deeper?

[Agape]

How to approach ultra-orthodox Israelite ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110509/..._kosher_phones

Yiddish cell phone launches in Israel

Israel's kosher cellular phone market has a new model, a device with a Yiddish interface to help devout Jews combine tradition with modern technology.

Hundreds of thousands of mobile phones, popularly dubbed kosher because they block access to services frowned upon by ultra-Orthodox rabbis, have been operating in the Jewish state for years.

Last month, Israel's second largest mobile provider, Partner introduced what it hailed as the world's first Yiddish cell phone, manufactured by Alcatel-Lucent.

Marc Seelenfreund, CEO of Israeli Accel Telecom which imports and distributes mobile phones to all Israeli operators, had a special team of translators work for months to develop an interface entirely in Yiddish.

Yiddish, a mixture of medieval German and Hebrew, was the spoken language of millions of European Jews for centuries, but it is now spoken mostly by elderly Jews and in ultra-Orthodox communities.

Yiddish words such as chutzpah, schmaltz or schlep, may have entered the English language, but Seelenfreund said ultra-Orthodox Jews would appreciate terms like "outgoing call," "ringtone" and "vibrate" translated into Yiddish.

Seelenfreund said the market for Kosher phones was substantial, estimating there are up to 400,000 users in Israel and another 500,000 in the United States.

NO INTERNET

While handsets have become ever more sophisticated, offering increasingly high-tech features, kosher cell phones have no text messaging capabilities, Internet access or camera and block calls to sex lines.

Concerns about erotic phone services and forbidden text messaging between members of the opposite sex prompted leaders of Israel's ultra-Orthodox community to set up a rabbinical committee on Internet and cell phone use several years ago.

The words "kosher" and "approved by the rabbinical committee for telecommunications" appear on the screen when a kosher cell phone is turned on.

"There are many problems with today's phones, many temptations," said Rabbi Baruch Shraga, a member of the committee.

"One can reach very immodest places on the Internet and people will write in a text message lewd things which they would not dare say aloud. Some laws prohibit hearing a woman sing, so ringtones are also restricted," Shraga said.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews are believed to make up about 8 to 10 percent of the population of 7.7 million in Israel.

"We sell thousands of Kosher cell phones a month which also offer special features like a Jewish holiday calendar and Hassidic ringtones," said Estie Rozen, a spokeswoman for Cellcom, Israel's largest mobile operator.

The answer : You can't ...






P.S. : I mean no offense . Years back when all the cell phone ( and internet ) boom started in big way , I was in Dharamsala and did not have, desire or approach any of these wired devices.

I endured friend thinking of me that I'm not techie enough to have email address and refused all of prospects for cell phones. All I really had was little FW radio .

There was much more program in the temple and things to absorb and digest and explore everyday and the treats and tricks of faraway western civilisation let me in peace ..

Paradoxically enough, not all of my respected brother monks were able to see the trick forwards and given all kinds of expensive cell phones ( plus some nintendo consoles ..)
that had actually very little use in that environment other than calling your friends ten times a day to make sure how you're doing.

The pinnacle occured at morning ceremony when lama beating drums had to pick up his ringing cell phone to answer some chat ..
and continued happily then..till the next call.

[Lily de Cuir]

Hello Everyone,

At the risk of being told to POQ ('piss off quick' in the Oz parlance), I've spent half an hour on here this morning before work, half an hour at lunchtme (because it's always fascinating to watch a brawl), and half an hour before bedtime, lovely entertainment. And you are all still going! Oh, and I started reading the original thread on Sunday! It's now Tuesday!

First of all must say I haven't read every single thread, so maybe I should abstain commenting, but I don't have 2 hours to read through everything - which leads me to ask - just what do you people on here do for a living? A lot of you must all be retired and have the money to do so, yes?

BTW I could add to the Oz debate about Aboriginal people and whites, but I have done so before on another thread. If you care to find it, search my comments. In a nutshell my ancestor was an elite, he was a 'white hat' that showed great compassion to the Aboriginal people of Australia in the 1830's. He was head of the largest company at that time in Oz and to my knowlede is still the oldest company in Oz. He was vilified for his actions and his career was ruined in one snuff by one man, Macarthur. You will never see my ancestor's name in the history books. He was very kind and respectful to our indigenous people and he paid for it, for the rest of his life, at the hands of the elites.

I know you will say I am biased and I probably am. However I have studied Australian history and Aboriginal history, including the books (2) my ancestor wrote in the 1830's. I'm glad to say both those books are now on microfysh and online with the the University of Newcastle in New South Wales, Australia, as part of Australian history units.

I say all this because despite my family's history, I am very sorry about what happened to our Aboriginal people. I didn't do anything personally, neither did my ancestor, but I still am deeply sorry. Because of white men and women, their culture has been decimated.

I have sat in university lectures and left in tears seeing what we have done to this once beautiful and sturdy culture and have hardly been able to speak because of the grief I felt with them. Their culture is a remnant now of it's former glory. I hope one day with some great thinkers, the Aboriginal community will revive their languages and culture again.

'Sorry Day' was the first and necessary step in this direction. There is a long way to go.

The film 'Rabbit Proof Fence' Bill speaks of, is just one true story of their history amongst many.

If anyone wants to PM me re my ancestors books, Title and surname, please do.

Kind regards,
Lily de Cuir

[Teakai]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Would you like me to eat the food you ordered for you too?
Part of the problem is that some of us won't think for ourselves, this thread is proof.
You are asking me questions I have answered.
If you have a problem with me/what I am doing, then that is ok, but for the love of life itself, think.
That is all that you will have to save you and yours.
And this isn't just aimed at you Teakai, it is for all of us.
The second part of your post is a good point, hence me wanting to put that part up for discussion.
I would think that if you think the issues the forum and members face are not real, then why did one forum become three?
Why are people even now contemplating leaving?

If you wouldn’t mind, that would be helpful

I seriously haven’t found the answer to my question and it was real simple to answer it and just be done with it – but maybe you couldn’t.

I’m not terribly worried about saving me and mine – we already booked seats on this tour before we got here – I’m just along for the ride che sera sera and all that.

About people leaving, my first guess would be that they take things wa-a-a-ay too personally and/or the moderators can get a bit too easy with the power button.

If this is some type of sh*t fight I’ve just walked into the middle of, just say so and I’ll be done with it.

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

I read ALL your words and I still fail to see your issue of contention. Is what Bill said untrue or true? Are you offended by the truth of it, perhaps?

I'm not interested in helping or defending anything but the truth. I don't play mind games - they bore me.

No thanks, that is taking the thread backwards.
I am trying to move forward.
Sorry, but that is going to bog us down in opinions on something we have moved past.

Has it moved forward, then?
I missed that part.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Agape (here)
How to approach ultra-orthodox Israelite ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110509/..._kosher_phones

Yiddish cell phone launches in Israel

Israel's kosher cellular phone market has a new model, a device with a Yiddish interface to help devout Jews combine tradition with modern technology.

Hundreds of thousands of mobile phones, popularly dubbed kosher because they block access to services frowned upon by ultra-Orthodox rabbis, have been operating in the Jewish state for years.

Last month, Israel's second largest mobile provider, Partner introduced what it hailed as the world's first Yiddish cell phone, manufactured by Alcatel-Lucent.

Marc Seelenfreund, CEO of Israeli Accel Telecom which imports and distributes mobile phones to all Israeli operators, had a special team of translators work for months to develop an interface entirely in Yiddish.

Yiddish, a mixture of medieval German and Hebrew, was the spoken language of millions of European Jews for centuries, but it is now spoken mostly by elderly Jews and in ultra-Orthodox communities.

Yiddish words such as chutzpah, schmaltz or schlep, may have entered the English language, but Seelenfreund said ultra-Orthodox Jews would appreciate terms like "outgoing call," "ringtone" and "vibrate" translated into Yiddish.

Seelenfreund said the market for Kosher phones was substantial, estimating there are up to 400,000 users in Israel and another 500,000 in the United States.

NO INTERNET

While handsets have become ever more sophisticated, offering increasingly high-tech features, kosher cell phones have no text messaging capabilities, Internet access or camera and block calls to sex lines.

Concerns about erotic phone services and forbidden text messaging between members of the opposite sex prompted leaders of Israel's ultra-Orthodox community to set up a rabbinical committee on Internet and cell phone use several years ago.

The words "kosher" and "approved by the rabbinical committee for telecommunications" appear on the screen when a kosher cell phone is turned on.

"There are many problems with today's phones, many temptations," said Rabbi Baruch Shraga, a member of the committee.

"One can reach very immodest places on the Internet and people will write in a text message lewd things which they would not dare say aloud. Some laws prohibit hearing a woman sing, so ringtones are also restricted," Shraga said.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews are believed to make up about 8 to 10 percent of the population of 7.7 million in Israel.

"We sell thousands of Kosher cell phones a month which also offer special features like a Jewish holiday calendar and Hassidic ringtones," said Estie Rozen, a spokeswoman for Cellcom, Israel's largest mobile operator.

The answer : You can't ...

They are on their own paths like all of us.
It is when their path is forced over others that problems occur.

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Would you like me to eat the food you ordered for you too?
Part of the problem is that some of us won't think for ourselves, this thread is proof.
You are asking me questions I have answered.
If you have a problem with me/what I am doing, then that is ok, but for the love of life itself, think.
That is all that you will have to save you and yours.
And this isn't just aimed at you Teakai, it is for all of us.
The second part of your post is a good point, hence me wanting to put that part up for discussion.
I would think that if you think the issues the forum and members face are not real, then why did one forum become three?
Why are people even now contemplating leaving?

If you wouldn’t mind, that would be helpful

I seriously haven’t found the answer to my question and it was real simple to answer it and just be done with it – but maybe you couldn’t.

I’m not terribly worried about saving me and mine – we already booked seats on this tour before we got here – I’m just along for the ride che sera sera and all that.

About people leaving, my first guess would be that they take things wa-a-a-ay too personally and/or the moderators can get a bit too easy with the power button.

If this is some type of sh*t fight I’ve just walked into the middle of, just say so and I’ll be done with it.

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

I read ALL your words and I still fail to see your issue of contention. Is what Bill said untrue or true? Are you offended by the truth of it, perhaps?

I'm not interested in helping or defending anything but the truth. I don't play mind games - they bore me.

No thanks, that is taking the thread backwards.
I am trying to move forward.
Sorry, but that is going to bog us down in opinions on something we have moved past.

Has it moved forward, then?
I missed that part.

I will answer your question as a sign of goodwill, but I don't want to go over and over this, ok?
This started with a comment bill made that I felt was a racist statement.
It is not true, from my perspective.
As things developed and I thought about it, I realised this was the perfect opportunity to pull another wormtongue thread deal on the forum.
The forum has some division in it even now, the concept was let's lance the boil, see what comes out, deal with it and then keep moving along.
United, with a common purpose.

There is a ****fight going on, but this thread isn't it, it is designed by me to help to end this.

And yes, it has moved on, from me seat looking at my lcd at least.

And for your benefit, I am not hostile to you, more frustrated.

[Teakai]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

I will answer your question as a sign of goodwill, but I don't want to go over and over this, ok?
This started with a comment bill made that I felt was a racist statement.
It is not true, from my perspective.
As things developed and I thought about it, I realised this was the perfect opportunity to pull another wormtongue thread deal on the forum.
The forum has some division in it even now, the concept was let's lance the boil, see what comes out, deal with it and then keep moving along.
United, with a common purpose.

There is a ****fight going on, but this thread isn't it, it is designed by me to help to end this.

And yes, it has moved on, from me seat looking at my lcd at least.

And for your benefit, I am not hostile to you, more frustrated.

No worries, M'lord - I just feel the same way I always do about you. I loves ya.

Just to say, thanks for the answer - but your perception of it being a racist comment is merely your perception. Unless you can put forth some logical reason as to how it was racist it is an ego judgment.
If you're looking to the bigger picture , and you say you are - your ego is going to be one big hindrance to you. It will tell you lies.

[SEAM]

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." — Plato

[DevilPigeon]

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by DevilPigeon (here)
However, giving thanks prematurely leaves the risk that the issue is sidestepped.

Is the issue about...race?

Or is race just the cover for something deeper?

It's evolved into something deeper. To me, race isn't the issue, not for one moment do I think it was a racist remark. The issue is that people tend to use phrases without a second thought, why that is I don't know, maybe as a species we become accustomed and de-tuned/de-sensitised to certain things and just accept things as they are "because it's the way things are".

Laying my cards on the table, there are 2 fundamental issues for me:

1. Bill's flexibility
   This whole thread could have been wound up long ago simply by Bill acknowledging that his choice of words could have been better. Bill has stated on record (post/video, can't recall) that when he thinks he's right he never backs down, that's not always the best course of action... Is it a flaw? I think so. Is he human? Yes.
   
2. Sycophantic behaviour by some
   This probably won't gain me any friends, but it's something I'm seeing... A general thing, nothing really specific. There seems to be a lot of "defend Bill" type posts at all costs, as if 1. he needs defending so vehemently (I'm sure he can defend himself quite well!); and 2. what he says is gospel.
   

Point 1 is as a result of this thread, point 2 is a more general thing....

I mean no disrespect to anyone, and if I've crossed a line, offended anyone - or if indeed I can be proved wrong - then I'll hold my hands up and apologise. But until all the issues that all members have are in the open and available for scrutiny, then we'll just keep treading water. And let's face it, this is nuts - there are bigger issues that need addressing head-on, that will only be effective if we're pulling the same way.

[Belle]

There are so many brilliant minds here at Avalon that I was quite intimidated as a new member. The level of intellectual discussion was so high and the questions spot on. That's all well and good, but we can intellectualize forever yet change nothing if we don't roll up our sleeves and do the hard work necessary to change the programming and thus change the paradigm.

All we know and have learned all of our lives came from the ones who control this planet. Who taught you how to read?...do math?...write? Think. We have been placed in a box of programmed thinking since the day we were born. We get all tied up in minutia and miss the bigger picture. Do you think that is by accident?

Think about your own personal reaction to this thread. Are you into the "he said, she said" box? Are you into the defend and protect mode? Do you even see or understand what Rob is trying to do here or is the "divide and conquer" program so deeply ingrained it's impossible to see past the need to take sides?

We call ourselves "awakened" to the workings of society/civilization...yet all we do is discuss and rehash over and over again. Real change comes from identifying each piece of the programming and making the personal changes necessary to get out of the box imo.

[Teakai]

Posted by DevilPigeon (here)
It's evolved into something deeper. To me, race isn't the issue, not for one moment do I think it was a racist remark. The issue is that people tend to use phrases without a second thought, why that is I don't know, maybe as a species we become accustomed and de-tuned/de-sensitised to certain things and just accept things as they are "because it's the way things are".

Laying my cards on the table, there are 2 fundamental issues for me:

1. Bill's flexibility
   This whole thread could have been wound up long ago simply by Bill acknowledging that his choice of words could have been better. Bill has stated on record (post/video, can't recall) that when he thinks he's right he never backs down, that's not always the best course of action... Is it a flaw? I think so. Is he human? Yes.
   
2. Sycophantic behaviour by some
   This probably won't gain me any friends, but it's something I'm seeing... A general thing, nothing really specific. There seems to be a lot of "defend Bill" type posts at all costs, as if 1. he needs defending so vehemently (I'm sure he can defend himself quite well!); and 2. what he says is gospel.
   

Point 1 is as a result of this thread, point 2 is a more general thing....

I mean no disrespect to anyone, and if I've crossed a line, offended anyone - or if indeed I can be proved wrong - then I'll hold my hands up and apologise. But until all the issues that all members have are in the open and available for scrutiny, then we'll just keep treading water. And let's face it, this is nuts - there are bigger issues that need addressing head-on, that will only be effective if we're pulling the same way.

Devilpigeon - where ever and whenever ego is involved there will always be issues about how things are seen to be done or not done. The only thing you can do is to take care of yourself in that regard. Remove your own ego from the picture and the ego of others will not have an impact on you.

And don't worry about offending anyone (ego gets offended) - "to thine ownself be true and it must follow as the night the day, thou shalt not then be false to any man." W.S.

[East Sun]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by East Sun (here)
I never did understand anyone demanding an apology.
If someone is forced into apologizing is it actually a real apology?

I can even see someone refusing to make an apology just because someone demanded it.

Because, if someone feels that they should apologize, they will.
Just my 2cents.

What you say is true, unless you are trying to point out an issue and trying to get the one you want the apology from to think about the why.

Language is not perfect, so we are often misunderstood. If your intention is good and someone thinks not is it your fault?
I think you realize Bill's intentions were right and fair, so then, as I/many would do, say ok and walk away.
To give the benefit of the doubt to the other person is imo, to do the right thing.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by East Sun (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by East Sun (here)
I never did understand anyone demanding an apology.
If someone is forced into apologizing is it actually a real apology?

I can even see someone refusing to make an apology just because someone demanded it.

Because, if someone feels that they should apologize, they will.
Just my 2cents.

What you say is true, unless you are trying to point out an issue and trying to get the one you want the apology from to think about the why.

Language is not perfect, so we are often misunderstood. If your intention is good and someone thinks not is it your fault?
I think you realize Bill's intentions were right and fair, so then, as I/many would do, say ok and walk away.
To give the benefit of the doubt to the other person is imo, to do the right thing.

Thanks for your input, I have already posted on this in the thread.

[oceanz]

Posted by oceanz (here)
As the Aboriginal race was not static who knows how they would've evolved if Australia wasn't colonialised and which race did or has the potential to do more damage to the environment ---> maybe not so much to do with a "race" but more to do with "greed".

I just wanted to add to this:

That it has always been human nature to interfere - to bring new ideas, new religions, values and beliefs and try to impose them on others regardless of race and whether this is willingly or unwillingly done.

Perhaps its not even limited to human nature to interfere.

Perhaps Earth was suppose to be a the control sample of an experiement and yet how many sightings of UFO's , abductions etc and letting us know of their presence have there been?

Maybe it is to see how we look after our precious resources of the earth and people even when we have the best intentions in mind.

Interfering with the intention of helping each other and accepting each other is something the human race is still learning...